please give me your happy endings- diarrhea

[skyy]

So, my horse spontaneously started having explosive painful diarrhea on Tues afternoon after being completely normal Tues morning. We called the vet immediately, she came out. No obstruction, no temp (actually a little low) slightly dehydrated, obviously very painful. She asked all of the normal questions but all of the answers were no. He hasn't been off the property since Feb, no feed changes, same hay, no antibiotics in months, no bute in months, hasn't been on grass yet this year, no stressful events, regular worming, regular vaccinations. Nothing. No one else at the barn is sick.

We ended up shipping him to Mid-Atlantic early Tues evening where they of course started fluids, metrodiazinole, Bio-Sponge, tubed him with the pink stuff, wrapped his front legs in ice, etc. Weds his white count was holding. Thurs it dropped a lot (vet said very low), rose a little bit Fri and a tiny bit today. Manure was a little bit better Thurs but is now worse. The chlostridium (sp?) came back neg and they are waiting on salmonella.

Needless to say, I am freaking out and my account balance at Mid Atlantic after 3 1/2 days is $6700. My insurance will pay $7500. Please someone give me some hope.

[sfstable]

In Florida, we would suspect sand as a possible culprit. But, I am sure with all the vet care you have they checked this already.

I will send some jingles your way.:)

[LarkspurCO]

No personal experience to share (so thankful I've not had to a anything like this) but wishing all the best for your poor horse. And your bank account, too.

[birdylo]

My 24 yr. old Morgan did the same thing in January. He had liquid, explosive, dark (bloody?) diarrhea, hyper bowel sounds, and a depressed demeanor. Bloodwork was normal except for mild dehydration; fecal was negative for blood and parasites. Per my vet's advice, I changed his feed to TC Senior, added probiotic feed granules, and did a Panacur Power Pac. His diarrhea gradually changed from mushy to soft-formed, and about 3 weeks post power pac, it returned to normal.

My horse never had to be hospitalized, but like you, I was nuts! I certainly hope your horse will be ok!

Elsa

[Obi]

I have experience with two horses both with explosive diarrhea. First one was recoving from surgery and was having reaction to antibiotic's and most likely suffered from ulcers as well. Ended up with Right Dorsal Colitis. Never had hay again...lost him 6 months later.

Second horse was a lease tryout. Got explosive diarrhea the day after he got here. Vet came and found sand and massive amounts of parasites in fecal. Power packed him, gave him sand clear, probios, and it took about two weeks to completely clear up.

The waiting for the Samonella (SP?) test sucks. Biosponge will be your friend.

Good luck...It is a scary situation!

[lolalola]

A friend of mine brought her old horse with colic to Mid Atlantic this winter. He stayed there a couple of days - she told them surgery was not an option. He recovered and went home. I know there is no way she paid the kind of money you are paying for your horse. Even though they aren't being treated for the same thing, neither one had surgery. Do you think you are being charged more because you have insurance?

[Dan]

My only experience with explosive diarhea is with an older pony.

At one point she could no longer tolerate the stemminess of hay. Had to switch her to soaked alfalpha cubes. At one point she could also no longer tolerate her senior pellets. Everything had to be wet for her stomach to tolerate. Not sure as to why.

Dan

[IIIBarsV]

I have a mare with some kind of pituitary gland issue (not Cushings, but very similar!) who has polydipsia (excessive water drinking). She suddenly started having diarrhea about 7 years ago now and lost a pile of weight. Several vets, specialists, dietary changes, etc later... we finally figured out it was the water consumption. She would drink about three or four times as much water as the average" horse, essentially flooding her gut, causing minor colic symptoms, and resulting in diarrhea.

She showed minor colics, cramping in the flanks, lethargy, excessive water drinking, weight loss, dull haircoat, but only dehydrated once out of 6 years. Loves her salt block a little too much. She would act like she was dying of thirst and would easily drink 2 and a half 5 gallon pails in about 5 minutes...

About a week away from euthanizing her, I decided to do a water deprivation test (one way to test the type of polydipsia you're dealing with- Always do with a vet!), so I ran it by my vet and he gave me a list of warnings and said "Well, it'll either work or not". In combination with a 5-day of panacur to treat for ascarids, we cut her water down to a normal level, giving it in smaller amounts at frequent intervals (half bucket 4-5 times a day), and she instantly started showing more digested poop, less diarrhea, and instead of dehydrating, her energy levels and attitude skyrocketted. She suddenly was able to find energy to go trotting around the field, bucking, snorting, etc.

The water drinking pattern clarified itself as the days went on- when she was still turned out with other horses, she had access to unlimited water. In the mornings after she'd been in the barn all night, she would have solid manure- in the afternoons after being out on the automatic waterer all morning, she would have diarrhea again.

That was a year ago. Since then she has only "relapsed" if left outside in the rain (she'll drink out of puddles), and if not exercised daily, her appetite decreases and she'll stop eating unless she's had water. She'll also try to paw her stall down to get at water. High maintenance horse- keeping the balance of water consumption, exercise, and keeping her eating is tough sometimes, especially with wet seasons. She is also on chaste tree berry to help with the urge to drink- it helps quite a bit as long as she is exercised regularly (stress triggers the urge to drink). The only reason we really keep maintaining her is because she's not in any pain, she's sound, happy, and quite energetic despite still needing to gain back muscle and weight- not to mention, she's a brilliant western pleasure horse, trained to the hilt. It would be a real shame to lose her.

So, just a thought. $6700 seems like ALOT to run blood and fecals though... what's the deal with the ultra-expensive vet care?

[Obi]

I agree with the high vet cost. Did the horse receive a plasma transfusion? What does her blood work state, other than WBC. I think its the ablion level and protein level that you have to watch if it is a RDC issue. Has the samonella test come back yet? What meds is she on? Spikes in fever? How are her laminitic symptons? Is she eating? What are they feeding her? My horse was back and forth to the vet hospital 5 times and I believe the final vet bill was about $12,000. We are talking 2 times in quarentine, 1 time for major surgery, and two other times for follow exams and recurring colitis episodes. You are allowed to see the bill and authorize exactly what she is being treated for. I know when my other horse went in for hock surgery and developed an impaction, they were about 1 hour away from getting him prepped for colic surgery when I said "NO WAY". I told them that if they could not resolve the impaction and he started to go down hill, they were to euthanize him....no surgery. The vet said "But you have insurance". And I said "Yes, but I will not put him through a colic surgery (he is a glorified pasture ornament)". You need to sit down with the head doctor, not the interns, and find out what the deal is ASAP!

Good luck!

[skyy]

We're now at the end of day 4 and he's not getting much better. The vet told my trainer that he hadn't seen such a low white count in an adult horse as mine had during day 2. His white count has crept up a little but his manure is still very loose. If they tube him 3 times a day his manure is better but with 2 times it is really loose. He is crampy and painful with an elevated heart rate during diarrheaic episodes. They are now feeding him hay and grain but when I went to see him today he wasn't actively eating. There was a decent amount of grain left in the bucket. His sheath is really swollen. My trainer has been talking to the vet (she has a medical background) and dumbing it down for me. I know that the protein is a problem and they have given him hetastarch (?) again. I think he has also had plasma at least once. I know that I can say yay or nay to the treatment but what am I to do? This horse is the world to me and if they say he needs it I am not going to question it. We had a horse there for 3 days last winter for colic. All he got was fluids and the bill was over $2K.

As for the laminitis, his legs are still iced 24/7 and his feet have remained cold without a pulse. The salmonella is not back yet. Even if it is salmonella, I don't think the treatment would change.

[Obi]

Wow, I am having flashbacks. The swelling in his sheath area is caused by fluid build up...edema. My guy got it in his chest,he got man boobies. He was also on hetastarch, Mistroprostal, and something else. IV's, and biosponge. I do not envy your situation. If his counts are low, and that is what they are worried about, it sounds like your mare has some type of colitis issue. They sometimes get worse before they get better. When my guy got it, and they took his blood work, they were amazed he was still standing, let alone breathing. Do not give up hope. I would spend hours with my horse at the vet school, reading to him (it keeps your voice calm), and talk on the phone to your friends with him there. It may sound weird, and people may laugh at this, but I know it comforted him. Now I don't feel so stupid for taking a photo of his first real pile of manure when he was there. :no::no::winkgrin:
Even when my guy came home, he had cow patty manure for months. If it is colitis, it is a long road, but it is treatable. I will be jingling for you.:yes:

[Blueskidoo]

My mare started with it as a complication from laminitis treatment from a post foaling uterine infection.

She was hospitalized in isolation (I had an uber expensive vet bill too)

She received hyper-immunized plasma by gastric tube and IV and that was very successful at clearing it up. Her attending vet had done a study showing this hyper immunized plasma was a good treatment for diarrhea.

[skyy]

Thanks everyone. I appreciate it your info.

FriesianCross-is this the horse that you lost 6 months later? Was it because of the RDC or something else?

[skyy]

Just got off the phone with Midatlantic. His white count is up to 4900 from 1900 yesterday and 400 on Thursday. As well, his manure is much more formed. Hopefully, this is the beginning of the turnaround! For those of you who have something like this, what happened when you finally got your horse home as far as diet and turnout and going back to work? I know I am putting the cart before the horse:) but this is the best news I have had in a week!

[Obi]

Yippee! Glad to hear the good news!!!

My horse developed RDC from complications after a re-castration surgery. He had a massive infection of his scirrous cords that went into his abdomen. The RDC was caused from the massive amount of antibiotics, the present infection (that they did not completely remove), the stress from surgery, and the NSAIDS he was on.

My situation was a worst case scenerio unfortunately. He was on stall rest for 8 weeks, at a rehab facility for 6 weeks due to the round the clock medical care he required (med's every 2-4 hours). He never ate hay again:(. When he came home to my place, he was on limited turn out (no grass), and a very strict diet and was fed Equine senior 6 times a day. I will not lie, it was hell. I give kudos to so many COTHers who have horses with a chronic illness. He finally turned the corner and his colon had healed but he developed adhesions from the surgery and started to colic (5 times in 4 weeks). The last time, it was so painful, I let him go. I just would not put him through another surgery.

The blessing of all of it was that he was the most amazing horse and I will cherish that forever. I am also now so much more aware of specific health issues, and RDC and castration are two of them. Had my guy not had adhesions, he would have probably recovered 100% and other than perhaps a specific diet, he would be here today. There is a light at the end of the tunnel.:)

[skyy]

FC- That is a very sad story. My heart goes out to you. Thank you again for all of your information.

My guy continues to do better. He is off fluids now and his manure (as of yesterday) was staying firmish. He now has the "man boobs" you told me about and his muzzle is swollen. It was comically sad when I visited him on Mon. The girl came around to feed and he nickered at her but when she gave him his grain he just put his head in the bucket and stood there. His muzzle is very swollen and I don't think he can get his lips to work well enough to pick up the grain. I broke open his flake of hay and he could get the pieces that were sticking up into his teeth. They were going to take him off some of the meds and hope it encouraged his appetite. They still haven't come up with a cause of this whole mess which is frustrating but at least he's doing much better.

[skyy]

Yep, my excitement was premature. Now he has pneumonia.....

[Dune]

Oh gosh, jingles for your boy!! :( I had a mare that had a really bad virus that culminated in explosive diarrhea 3 weeks into it, then it turned into peritionitis and colitis. We finally took her to the hospital, belly tap was negative, she was put on IV antibiotics and Biosponge. She made a complete 180 and ended up fine. The hospital told me to never feed her Bermuda (coastal) hay again because of the colitis and I didn't for about a year. However, now that's her primary diet but I supplement with orchard and alfalfa as well. I hope you have a happy ending! :yes:

[Obi]

I am so sorry....I swear, its the great horses that put us through hell! I will be saying some prayers for your horse. Do not give up on him:winkgrin:. The misoprostal (sp), kills their appetite. I bought my guy a big bucket of stud muffins and that is all he would want to eat. Of course, it wasn't the best thing for him, but it was something. Try hand feeding them as sometimes that helps. You never said anything about the samonella (sp again, I am so blond, lol).

Remember, you are doing your best for this horse...do not feel guilty for anything.

[LouLove]

I am reading your post and jingling like crazy for you. This is such a difficult time for you. Everything makes you feel helpless. I really hope things turn around. Think positive. Especially when you visit him. I know that sounds corny...but I really think it helps if they don't feel your nervous stress.

I am waiting for your next update. So sorry this is happening.

LL

[Sebastian]

Yep, my excitement was premature. Now he has pneumonia.....

Wow... ((((jingling)))) like crazy for your guy.

Any chance this whole thing was viral from the get go??? :confused:

Seb :)

[CAH]

Mid Atlantic is wonderful to work with and I understand the insurance and money worries. Just remember that they will work with you.

I also am wondering whether it was some type of virus.

[ThoroughbredFancy]

Much jingles heading your way.

[skyy]

MA has been great and very kind - I am not knocking them at all. After they gave me my running total on day 3 and I had a breakdown on the phone with the poor girl who called me, she grabbed a vet and went over each item to make sure that no mistakes had been made and then immediately called me back to make sure I was okay. I have always taken my horses there and have always had a great experience. And the vets talk to you like you're a real person and not like they are God. The amount of money these things cost is just staggering to me.

So, all of the salmonella cultures are not back but they did a DNA test for salmonella (not sure how this works but apparently it's more sensitive?) and it was negative. As for the virus, he never had a temp but now of course he has one because of the pneumonia and I was under the impression that with viruses you get temps.

I haven't heard from them yet today but hopefully his temp is down and the new antibiotics are helping him feel better.

Thank you everyone for your kind words.

[CAH]

Hope all is well. Any updates?

[skyy]

After much conferring between my trainer and my vet at MA, I brought my boy home yesterday!!! My trainer was a vet tech in her previous life and has a lot of horse medical experience so my vet was comfortable releasing him. He's still on a boat load of meds. He seems much happier now that he's home and some of the edema is starting to resolve. He is still not really interested in eating and will only pick at his grain. At least he's eating some hay. I handgrazed him last night for a bit and it was a major effort for him to keep his eyes open. He was very tired. Today he seems brighter.

This morning I tried mixing his grain with applesauce and he ate exactly 2 mouthfuls before going back to his hay. I am a very neurotic mom and am monitoring everything! He isn't pooping much (which normally is very concerning) but it only makes sense because he isn't eating much (I have to remind myself that this does make sense). He is supposed to have 6-8 weeks off before going back to work. Ugh!!!! But the important thing is that he is home and on the mend.

Thanks again everyone for your jingles and advice. It always makes me feel better talking to people who have been through what we are going through.

[phoenix mom]

I am glad things are looking up, let us know what they say caused this. Take care of yourself too, this kind of stress can really affect you too.

[Dune]

He is still not really interested in eating and will only pick at his grain. At least he's eating some hay. I handgrazed him last night for a bit and it was a major effort for him to keep his eyes open.

This morning I tried mixing his grain with applesauce and he ate exactly 2 mouthfuls before going back to his hay. .


SO glad he home!! Yay! I'm sure there's a reason for it and you guys and your vets know more about the situation than me, but I just have to comment 'cuz I can't help myself. :o If this were *my* horse, having just gone through what he's gone through and the whole intestinal disturbance issue....I'd have him on hay/water/handgrazing ONLY, no grain or anything else that might aggravate the delicate balance right now. :no: NOT trying to criticize AT ALL (please don't read into this) but having one that went through something similar, I know that's what I did. Continued jingles, whatever you decide to do. :yes:

[Obi]

Yippee! I am so glad he is home! Just a suggestion...keep a clip board (like they did at the vet school), of when your horse receives his meds (time), how much water he drinks, how much he poops and pee's, and how much hay he eats. Also note if he gets aggitated, etc. This will help a ton if you have to have the vet back. Also keep note of when you take his temp, etc. The next few weeks will be key and the more information that you can keep track of will help. It may seem a bit OCD, but trust me, if you have to have the vet out, and you can hand him this sheet of all of the information they are looking for, it will make any situation easier for them to assist in.

Another suggestion is to try and feed him small amounts of food and if he does not eat it in about 1/2 hour, then measure out how much he has eaten and throw the rest out. Horses sometimes do not like to eat 'old' feed and it may be better to introduce smaller amounts more times during the day then a large amount they just nibble at.

I learned this the hard way. It is so much easier to be able to let the vet know everything when they need it. Now, when ever I do call my vet, I try and get all the information that they need on the phone to them. Perhaps a bit over the top yes, but my vet has yet to complain about too much information.

I am sooooooo happy he is home!:D

[skyy]

Being the neurotic horse mom that I am, I was very concerned on Friday about the little manure he was producing and the quality. Spoke with MA vet who said "go grass" so we did. There was still nothing Fri evening but he was acting great- very happy, eating hay, drinking well but I called my regular vet anyway. She came out and rectalled him and pulled out a little rock hard manure covered in mucous. She also felt at the end of her fingertips what she called a "mass". She consulted with the MA vet who said they never felt or saw anything on ultrasound but they both agreed that an impaction at this point was unlikely. My regular vet tubed him and we pulled his hay.

Overnight he produced a little less hard manure and she rectalled and tubed him again Sat am and the mass felt different so it had to be an impaction. He went back out on the grass and is now producing decent amounts of black, cow patty manure and the oil has come through.

FC-thanks for your suggestion. I started a chart right away so everyone who needs to know can tell at a glance what his temp is, water intake, manure production etc.

[skyy]

BTW, no they still don't know why he got so sick. I don't think they're going to find anything. We've been trying to do some detective work on our own (asking neighbors if they put any chemicals on their lawns recently, talking to the feed mill, etc) but nothing has come up. When my regular vet called my MA vet on Fri night, he told her that the horse is lucky to be alive. He could have easily died.

His sheath is still enormous and he's very weak. On Friday while I was hand grazing him, he laid down and ate all the grass he could reach around him and then napped. It was kind of cute but very out of character for him. He's so weak that he doesn't even spook at normal sounds that used to make him jump out of his skin. I am just happy to have him home.

[Obi]

Oh God...your poor baby:cry:
The sheath edema should go down once his system gets back on track. Small amounts of exercise and just letting him know 'you are there' often help. Even when my guy was at the vet school, the techs all commented on how my horse seemed less stressed after I would visit him. I would sit in his stall and read magazine articles to him...sounds dumb but it made him seem calmer.

Scrub everything, buckets, feed pails, etc! I would also get a new bag of feed. I wonder if it was something in the hay. I hate it when these things are not 'solved'.:no:

I know you are on pins and needles and I do hope he keeps on this track. You have to pat yourself on the back for not breaking down through this..once someone goes through something like this, it is amazing what you can handle.

Still jingling:D:D:D

[Obi]

I just had a brainf art...did they test him for Erlcicchia (sp?) The appetite and fever just gave me a red flag.

[skyy]

I don't believe they did and they didn't test for Potomac either because they said it's not the right time of year. The thing is, he never had a fever until after he developed the pneumonia which was 7 days after the initial diarrhea. My regular vet is going to call me tomorrow to talk about the next round of antibiotics. I'm going to ask her just what they did test for. I am assuming that at this point they can't test for either the erlichia (sp?) or PHF because all of the nasties will be dead due to the antibiotics, but, hey what do I know?

He is such a people horse and one of the barn favorites because of his sweet personality. I think he feels better just being at home near his buddies and his people.

[skyy]

Just an update - it officially was not salmonella or PHF (however, I have now found out that PHF is erlichia :) ) so there is no official cause. His blood work is going in the right direction, he is eating and he is pooping! As well, the edema continues to resolve and he is almost acting like his old self again. Thank you once again for all of you who shared your stories and jingled for him. I would not wish this on anyone. Hopefully, by mid June he will start back to very light work and we can go on from there.

[tma]

So glad to hear that your boy appears to be on the mend.

I had an elderly horse that did the explosive diarreah routine a while back. All tests, as in your case, also came back negative, so we also never had a definative culprit. No fever, everything good as far as pulse, respiration, nothing found via rectal, bloodwork normal, not salmonella, etc etc.

However, the vet tubing him with psyllium, + giving either Bute or Banamine for his discomfort (don't recall now, which we gave) while we waited on test results, and following up with feeding psyllium for a few more days, we saw return to normal/near normal within 48 hours. Possibly conincidence, but it certainly didn't hurt. It never recurred.

For clarification, the horse was already on a regular psyllium program (as are all of our horses) for sand buildup prevention. However, it absorbs moisture, and thus helps for diarreah as well.