Finally-A simple solution to my position problems

[Heit]

this short video has some great information of fixing position issues... i found it on barn mice

http://www.barnmice.com/video/program-your-position-1

[gladys]

Thank you Jane for these great ideas. You could have a second career in psychology! Will try some of your concepts this aft.

[Ambrey]

It's going to be a complete program- I think she's going to release it on Tuesday.

[Beasmom]

Anyone who uses it, please post before and after pictures!

[slc2]

So...if you buy a video, you won't need lessons or to work at improving your position? Dayum! Put me down for one of them videos too!:lol::lol:

[Ambrey]

So...if you buy a video, you won't need lessons or to work at improving your position? Dayum! Put me down for one of them videos too!:lol::lol:

Snort, do you know ANYTHING about Jane Savoie's methods at ALL? Apparently not if you think she touts a quick fix for anything.

But if, as you seem to imply, you still have stubbornly persistent position problems after years of hard work and lessons, it might be that a new way of looking at it could help, no?

[slc2]

The title, "a simple solution to my position problems" is a little bit too 'simple'.

And actually, insulting me so very cleverly doesn't change facts - videos are a help, but they are not the whole solution, no matter how skilled the instructor in the video is. One still has to make an effort and ride the horse, and invariably, videos are not a complete or even partial substitute for riding lessons. Videos have been around for a long, long time. People have been watching Klimke's videos for 25 years, for example, and they still don't ride like he does.

I'm sticking with videos AND riding lessons AND a lot of hard work. There is no one - including Jane Savoie, actually, even though she's your new guru and all - who offers anything on a video that makes practice and riding lessons unnecessary or even SLIGHTLY LESS necessary. And she and any other legitimate instructor would be acutely embarrassed if her videos were touted as even a partial substitute for instruction and a lot of hard work.

[Ambrey]

Actually, insulting me so very cleverly doesn't change facts - videos are a help, but they are not the whole solution, no matter how skilled the instructor in the video is. One still has to make an effort and ride the horse, and invariably, videos are not a complete substitute for riding lessons.

I didn't insult you, did I? By implying that you might have a position problem? Most people I know, even beautiful riders, have some stubborn things they'd like to change. That wasn't meant as an insult at all. Apparently I was too clever even for myself!

Of course videos are not a substitute for lessons and riding. These are things to work on DURING your lessons and schooling sessions. They are visualizations you use while in the saddle.

[Heit]

wow... when i posted the link to the position video, i never thought that anyone would go so far as to suggest that the video says you don't have to work hard!! Where did it say that you could replace sweat with a video... I think for me its a new way to communicate with my body while i am having a lesson or working on my own... Surely we ALL have things that we would like to improve on... and we all have to work hard and get tired and and and...anyhow... the title is Program Your Position... the simple part was from ME... and i actually found a few of the suggestions simple to implement...

[Beasmom]

Heit, YOU did not suggest that, but there are some among us who persist in using the "Think System" rather than blood, toil tears and sweat to achieve their goals.

(The Think System, for you young pups, was Professor Harold Hill's "Method" to teach youngsters to play band instruments from Meredith Willson's "The Music Man").

Certain triggers & visualizations to achieve correct position or whatnot are just fine, but at a certain point the practitioner of these visualizations has to push him-or-herself away from the computer desk or sofa and put them into practice. That's where the rubber meets the road.

[slc2]

I agree with you, beasmom. No one is ever going to invent anything that is going to change that. Jane Savoie is the master of the WYAO method. She is a good speaker and a good teacher, that is true, but she is not teaching stuff no one else is teaching, and she got where she got because she worked her butt off and took lessons. She was a waitress, not a rich lady, and she wrote the book on working your tail off harder than anyone else to get ahead. Reading that book isn't ever going to be a substitute for doing the work.

[Heit]

thanks for the comment... I am unfortunately not a young pup... so familiar with the think method... however, I still think you are jumping to conclusions... I saw a short clip of a larger DVD (4 min) or so... and i applied it to my ride today... i guess that i am a positive thinker and use my thinking to apply to my physical riding... yes sweating, crying, cheering and all the other emotions that go into this wonderful sport... and it ACTUALLY helped... I am thankful that Ms. Savoie takes the time to reinvent the wheel for those of us who might just need to have ideas presented to us in another way... Bravo Jane, signing off... going to try and emulate the world cup riders... and have a glass of wine... i suggest you do the same!!

[rugbygirl]

Don't knock book learning though. I can't tell you how much useful information I've been able to inject into my riding from sources like "Sustainable Dressage". It's nice to have an instructor to vet it through though...

"What are you DOING with your leg?"

"I uh, I read it in a book to do it like THIS."

"Well, you read WRONG. Try THIS."

I'm sure we've all been there :winkgrin:

[XenophonKnows]

As to the content of the video clip, I find this terminology suspiciously similar to Mary Wanless. The main difference being that Mary dives deep into very specific Rider Anatomy when making and explaining her images. I would be interested to hear from anyone who has read Mary's "Clinic" or "For the Good of the Rider" books, what similarities they find?

[Beasmom]

Aw, Heit, I wasn't jumping to conclusions regarding either your age or your abilities. A positive outlook is essential to success. So is hard work, sometimes painful therapy, and brutal criticism.

Pleased to hear you're familiar with Professor Hill's "Think System". That remains one of my favorite musicals of all time.

As far as the glass of wine -- beat you to it!

[Ambrey]

As to the content of the video clip, I find this terminology suspiciously similar to Mary Wanless. The main difference being that Mary dives deep into very specific Rider Anatomy when making and explaining her images. I would be interested to hear from anyone who has read Mary's "Clinic" or "For the Good of the Rider" books, what similarities they find?

They are similar, I find a lot of overlap between Jane Savoie and Mary Wanless. They both focus on both the psychology aspect and the biomechanics aspect, but in slightly different ways.

But I don't find that "suspicious," though.

[Ambrey]

thanks for the comment... I am unfortunately not a young pup... so familiar with the think method... however, I still think you are jumping to conclusions... I saw a short clip of a larger DVD (4 min) or so... and i applied it to my ride today... i guess that i am a positive thinker and use my thinking to apply to my physical riding... yes sweating, crying, cheering and all the other emotions that go into this wonderful sport... and it ACTUALLY helped... I am thankful that Ms. Savoie takes the time to reinvent the wheel for those of us who might just need to have ideas presented to us in another way... Bravo Jane, signing off... going to try and emulate the world cup riders... and have a glass of wine... i suggest you do the same!!

She's fabulous- she does tout visualization as a way to improve your riding, and it works!

And she puts things in the simplest terms. I can't tell you how many of the things she writes that I've read and said "oh, NOW I get it!"

Her materials have made a huge impact on my riding.

[Beasmom]

In what way has your riding been impacted? Are you able to canter now? Has her material helped you with your fitness level and fear issues?

I like Jane's stuff, too, but you have to work the plan and plan your work. Do you do that?

[Ambrey]

The two areas where her stuff has worked miracles for me are the fear issues and the position issues, although I have integrated her teaching into every area of my riding. The fitness is coming with time and work, but it's been a long road.

[Beasmom]

OK, you answered two of the four questions. Can you be more specific? Have you overcome fear sufficiently to canter? Are you able to ride with an independent seat? Are you working with a professional to improve your fitness on AND OFF the horse?

And I don't mean Jane. I mean someone who works with you personally, who pushes you to be as good as you can be. Without that concrete influence, it's easy to fall into complacency. For some time now you have paid lip service to "learning to ride dressage", when in fact you simply need to learn to RIDE. Period. Leave the dressage for when you're comfortable enough to canter, can hold your position through your own strength and balance, and ride in harmony with your horse. Until you can do that, you're not "doing dressage". Dressage is training of the horse, and that can't be done till the rider has the seat, the strength and the balance to control her own body.

[Ambrey]

You are correct, I did not answer any of the questions that I didn't think were pertinent to the subject of this thread.

As for who should be using Jane Savoie's materials- she's quite clear on that. She wants everyone to be able to use it! She works very hard to make her materials accessible to people of all levels, and I think she does a wonderful job of it.

[Heit]

They are similar, I find a lot of overlap between Jane Savoie and Mary Wanless. They both focus on both the psychology aspect and the biomechanics aspect, but in slightly different ways.

But I don't find that "suspicious," though.

I don't find it suspicious either... in fact... some quite different...

1. These are dvds and cds--not books (just being able to actually watch corrections being applied was useful to me... and they are not FEI riders, and riding a halflinger something I can relate to!!)

2. You might recognize some similarities to other works, But since Jane's study of Maxwell Maltz' Psychocybernetics began in the 1980's, she has been using visualization and self-talk to help riders supplement their lessons. She's seen first hand how these techniques have helped other athletes in other sports. She first brought it to riders with her Book, That Winning Feeling, in 1992.

even if they are similar in concept... i find the tagging of the words and the buzz words completely different and new to me!! yes, the visualizations are probably not new, but the tagging and the applications of how to trigger your muscle memory is very new... i think depending on how i use them and practice them, both on and off the horse, and HOW HARD I WORK while i am on my horse, will probably determine how successful I am in correcting my issues...

[CatOnLap]

Absolutely, visualization and watching other succesful performers can impact what you do on your horse.

Heit, judging by the number of posts that are collapsed for me in this thread, you have unfortunately found yourself in the middle of some posters who have amply demonstrated their ability to ride a keyboard, but have yet to provide evidence of improvement in their ability to equitate, even after years of posting to thousands of threads.

[Heit]

I don't find it suspicious either... in fact... some quite different...

1. These are dvds and cds--not books (just being able to actually watch corrections being applied was useful to me... and they are not FEI riders, and riding a halflinger something I can relate to!!)

2. You might recognize some similarities to other works, But since Jane's study of Maxwell Maltz' Psychocybernetics began in the 1980's, she has been using visualization and self-talk to help riders supplement their lessons. She's seen first hand how these techniques have helped other athletes in other sports. She first brought it to riders with her Book, That Winning Feeling, in 1992.

even if they are similar in concept... i find the tagging of the words and the buzz words completely different and new to me!! yes, the visualizations are probably not new, but the tagging and the applications of how to trigger your muscle memory is very new... i think depending on how i use them and practice them, both on and off the horse, and HOW HARD I WORK while i am on my horse, will probably determine how successful I am in correcting my issues...

[Heit]

ok... ok.... i found the next clip of the series... on barn mice... this must be another clip from the larger series... I love the fact that this tagging (if you practice and APPLY, i know its not a substitution for fixing everything, just a supplement to help overcome muscle memory and position issues... just so you all don't assume i am sitting on the sofa getting better at my riding!!)

The riders are not FEI level, so can relate to their position issues, and the Halflinger... from the first video... just up my alley!!

Ha!! keybord riding... HILARIOUS!!!


http://www.barnmice.com/video/program-your-position-ii

[LarkspurCO]

"What are you DOING with your leg?"

"I uh, I read it in a book to do it like THIS."

"Well, you read WRONG. Try THIS."

I'm sure we've all been there :winkgrin:

I have a slightly different dialogue:

"What are you DOING with your leg?"

What leg?

"Your right leg. It's curled back behind you."

Really? I can't tell.

"Look in the mirror."

Oh, you mean THAT. How do I make it stop doing that?

"Stretch it down around the girth."

But my hip is holding my leg hostage. How do I negotiate its release?

"Try offering money. Lots of cash."

You mean the money I paid for the longe lessons with?...............

...and so forth.

Eventually the hip let go of the leg, but it went on strike and I couldn't walk very well after that. A saddle change helped, as did yoga, but I'll always be battling this damn desk job.:mad:

[Beasmom]

I admire Jane's marketing skills, and fortunately, her material IS helpful, so it's not the empty marketing of stuff like most of the NH's do. I have supported her frequently in the past, and was a paying member on her website for a couple of months. Decided I had enough, with her books, DVD's, CD's, and "Happy Horse Course".

I need to save that money for MY next dressage prospect!

Jane has walked the walk and talked the talk. She can ride in all three gaits and beyond. I'm willing to take advice from her. Not so much from people I know get all their info second-hand and selectively avoid answering honest questions. Because it will make them look bad.

[Beasmom]

Larkspur, I think I love you! That's hilarious!

I have (had) a right leg that does (did) the same thing. Sounds soooo familiar!

[spaghetti legs]

Jane has walked the walk and talked the talk. She can ride in all three gaits and beyond. I'm willing to take advice from her. Not so much from people I know get all their info second-hand and selectively avoid answering honest questions. Because it will make them look bad.

Exactly.. and that is the trouble with trying to debate via this avenue. One can be sharing their real life experiences, truthfully and honestly, whilst the very next person to come along may have a bunch of well thumbed horse books next to them and grandiose delusions of adequacy and unfortunately it gets very difficult to pick through the genuine posters and those who enjoy blowing sunshine and hot air up their own patootie and whomever else's is impressing them that particular week.

[LarkspurCO]

Larkspur, I think I love you! That's hilarious!

I have (had) a right leg that does (did) the same thing. Sounds soooo familiar!

Ha ha. Kelly O'Leary is a great hostage negotiator.

[XTAC]

Am I the only one to view Heit's posts as a not so well disguised sales pitch? I am a little surprised there has not been a moderator warning. If I did not know better I would think that this new poster was an alias for JS herself.

[Beasmom]

No, I don't think Jane would stoop so low. She DOES post here as Herself occasionally.

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

I enjoy Sally Swift's, Mary Wanless' and Jane Savoie's works, but I find that the visuals for one don't always work for me as well as one of the others. I find myself going back over the books and re reading and each time I understand more, coupled with my work with my horse and my lessons (my trainer uses much of the same tools in her arsenal).

It makes sense, because we're all individuals, with different learning styles and backgrounds. So you go with what works for you (and your horse).

I wish I could see the video clip. I can't download it on this computer, and I'm waiting for repairs to my regular hard drive - could someone post information as to the source so I can check it our when able? Thanks!

[Ambrey]

Am I the only one to view Heit's posts as a not so well disguised sales pitch? I am a little surprised there has not been a moderator warning. If I did not know better I would think that this new poster was an alias for JS herself.

Jane has a username here and posts quite openly as herself. She's also got no need for underhanded marketing techniques. Most definitely NOT her style ;)

[Ambrey]

I wish I could see the video clip. I can't download it on this computer, and I'm waiting for repairs to my regular hard drive - could someone post information as to the source so I can check it our when able? Thanks!

DG, it's on youtube posted by Jane under her own name. She also has it linked on her barnmice page.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAcm1fE6H5w&feature=channel_page

I agree completely that the different trainers complement each other, not steal from each other. I have Mary Wanless books/CDs as well, and use stuff from both. Right now I just get more from Jane Savoie because of the Dressage Mentor site, which is just so stuffed with information that is pertinent to my riding right now.

[AnotherRound]

Yes, when Jane posts on this board, she posts honestly and kindly and under her own name.

The only reason one of her rabid fans on here doesn't answer honest questions is because she can't answer them honestly. Poor Jane. Ambrey is like one of those rabid fans of a movie star. And no, riding is not about visualization and reading and talking, its about doing. Working hard and riding riding riding.

[Ambrey]

I am a rabid fan of Jane for sure :) But only because of what her work has done for me!

And AR, don't knock visualization until you try it. It WORKS.

Interesting that suddenly you have no knowledge of what I've been doing since last time I mentioned something, which was months ago (when I was having fear issues with the canter). And if I don't discuss my riding here it's assumed I haven't been doing it. Where are those multiple sources of information you tried to convince me you have? I'd almost think you guys were running out of material!

Truthfully, nobody should decide whether to ride this based on how well I ride. I said I got something out of Jane's stuff, and it's the truth. I notice it, my trainer notices it, people around me notice it. If "what I got" was being able to canter, or being able to get on my horse without fear, or being able to do a round 20 meter circle, or whatever- there are people out there who are at my level who need the same things, and they know who they are.

[CatOnLap]

And no, riding is not about visualization and reading and talking, its about doing. Working hard and riding riding riding.

Well, it can be about visualization, reading and talking...as long as you also do the riding, riding, riding, riding, riding, riding, riding, riding, riding, that it takes to translate all those great visual images and conversations to your body parts while they are being jostled by the horse...

Now if someone would please communicate psychically to my sprained knee that it needs to hurry up and heal so I can get back to the riding part? And I don't want to hear no bogus "Your knee loves you and is just giving you a well earned rest right now" from any of those communicators either.

[slc2]

I just communicated psychically with your strained knee, doesn't it feel better now? Wait, wait! I'm getting something back from the knee...it says...hmmm...something unrepeatable.

All kidding aside a strained knee is no fun, but you're right as far as i know, visualization is just another part of the whole bundle.

Some years ago someone walked up to me while I was grooming my horse, and pronounced, 'A good grooming is just as good for a horse as a good ride!' Granted, when I groom 'em I sweat buckets brushing, but, ILMAO, to be honest.

[Jane Savoie]

Hi All,
Just wanted to let you know I only post under my own name.

Also, I very much agree that you have to ride. Put I also believe that "Practice doesn't make perfect"..."Perfect" practice makes perfect. If you ride, ride, ride, ride, and always sit crookedly, you will get very good at sitting crookedly because that's what you've been practicing.


The only time you can practice "perfectly" is in your imagination. And since your subconscious mind can't tell the difference between what's real and what's vividly imagined, you get some quality practice time in your mind's eye...rather than just logging miles on your horse while confirming the same old mistakes.

We all struggle with our positions every day. All I'm trying to do is give riders more tools to help them with their personal challenges.

[hammondcrazy@yahoo.com]

Hi All,
Just wanted to let you know I only post under my own name.

Also, I very much agree that you have to ride. Put I also believe that "Practice doesn't make perfect"..."Perfect" practice makes perfect. If you ride, ride, ride, ride, and always sit crookedly, you will get very good at sitting crookedly because that's what you've been practicing.


The only time you can practice "perfectly" is in your imagination. And since your subconscious mind can't tell the difference between what's real and what's vividly imagined, you get some quality practice time in your mind's eye...rather than just logging miles on your horse while confirming the same old mistakes.

We all struggle with our positions every day. All I'm trying to do is give riders more tools to help them with their personal challenges.

Your DVD series are so so so AWESOME!! Mike

[Beasmom]

Here's my problem, Jane. If I do not KNOW I'm sitting crooked, but think I'm perfect, and keep visualizing things based on what I THINK reality is, am I getting better, worse, or just practicing/visualizing the same things over and over again?

If someone adjusts my position to straightness, then takes a photo or video of that, then I can put that correct(ed) image into my head and visualize the new, improved me. I think there are many riders trying to use your teaching materials and falling short of the desired results. Why? Because they do not recognize in themselves the parts that need fixing. Perhaps their instructor doesn't recognize the problem either, or has "given up" fixing it.

It takes strength of character to look in the mirror and tell yourself, "I've been using the reins to balance myself" or "I ride in a fetal position", or whatever the problem is, and then do something about it! If it's beyond the riding teacher's ability to help the rider, then perhaps Yoga, or Pilates, or a Personal Trainer at the gym is the answer. If it's a fear issue, see a psychologist or psychiatrist. Your techniques are good, but some deep-seated fears may require a professional's help.

I have been told that I ride much much better after I've spent a weekend watching upper level riders at shows or clinics. I take in information visually and "own" that information in pretty short order, so I understand the whole visualization thing and the different ways different people learn and process.

I've been snowed/mudded in for the weekend and will spend some time tonight watching DVD's of top quality riders, and then a few from my last clinics and lessons (not necessarily in that order!) and compare what I see.

The very best improvements in my riding have come about since my coach and I have started taking turns videotaping one another. The funny bit about a right leg being held hostage by the right hip a few posts ago was very, very true for me. I thought my coach was nuts, always griping about my right leg -- until I saw the video.

The next recent giant step forward was from a visit to a chiropractor, who diagnosed weakness in my right hip flexor. Everyone on this BB has heard about this ad nauseam, but the exercises the Dr. gave me enabled me to use my right leg correctly. All the visualization in the world was not going to strengthen my right hip flexor. I had to realize there was a problem that simply "thinking" about it wouldn't fix and take appropriate action.

Your materials are valuable, Jane, no doubt about it. You work out in the gym to maintain fitness and aid your riding. You know you cannot "visualize" your way to world-class fitness. You ride under the watchful eyes of other great clinicians and coaches. You have to put in sweat equity, not just navel-gazing. Your methodology is indeed "for everyone", but "everyone" has to be willing to follow the plan you lay out and do the work. And yes, that means "ride". And ride, and ride, and ride.

And for that reason, it will not work "for everyone", because "a few" will not put in the time and effort it requires. Those few are looking for the quick fix, the easy road to success. You know better than anyone, it ain't quick and it ain't easy!

[spaghetti legs]

Truthfully, nobody should decide whether to ride this based on how well I ride. I said I got something out of Jane's stuff, and it's the truth. I notice it, my trainer notices it, people around me notice it. If "what I got" was being able to canter, or being able to get on my horse without fear, or being able to do a round 20 meter circle, or whatever- there are people out there who are at my level who need the same things, and they know who they are.

That is fair enough... but why pretend that you are something other than what you are, which is a beginning rider... Why give advice over the Internet regarding FEI level riding for example, with the tone and implication that you are currently competing at such a level? We don't care that you are a beginner. Probably 50% of the people on the Chronicle forums are beginner riders or new to horse ownership... but there is no need to embellish for the sake of the other readers of this forum or to elevate your own self esteem. Anyone can google or flip through the latest magazine.

Surely an important part of visualisation must be looking at your riding skills and knowledge with an open, honest mind. You cannot improve what you cannot see.

[Beasmom]

"You cannot improve what you cannot see."

Ooh! I like that!! You said in 7 words what I took half a page to say.

[hammondcrazy@yahoo.com]

"You cannot improve what you cannot see."

Ooh! I like that!! You said in 7 words what I took half a page to say.

When I was working for Katherine Boyer even in the late 80s she would have me video tape her rides everyday. And she had been riding for 50 years then.
Video tape your rides even if you set it up in the corner of the arena, Have your rides critiqued by you and your instructor. It is hard to see yourself from a horse. I hate seeing me on a video but it helps. You can get great deals at pawn shops for even nice HI8 video cameras. Much better than dvd cameras as far as run time. Mike.

[Ambrey]

TWhy give advice over the Internet regarding FEI level riding for example, with the tone and implication that you are currently competing at such a level?

LOL, I have never done such a thing.

[Beasmom]

Hammondcrazy, I quote myself here from post #42:

"The very best improvements in my riding have come about since my coach and I have started taking turns videotaping one another. The funny bit about a right leg being held hostage by the right hip a few posts ago was very, very true for me. I thought my coach was nuts, always griping about my right leg -- until I saw the video."

So, thanks, but you're preaching to the choir. Others here would benefit from regular video taping sessions. Nothing has helped me more.

[hammondcrazy@yahoo.com]

Hammondcrazy, I quote myself here from post #42:

"The very best improvements in my riding have come about since my coach and I have started taking turns videotaping one another. The funny bit about a right leg being held hostage by the right hip a few posts ago was very, very true for me. I thought my coach was nuts, always griping about my right leg -- until I saw the video."

So, thanks, but you're preaching to the choir. Others here would benefit from regular video taping sessions. Nothing has helped me more.

Sorry.

I just think it was such a revelation to me and it has helped me so much. Also I wanted say was that HI8 is the best for run time and availability as far as cost. I used my huge Betacam I got from a local station,(pain in the backside) till I found a HI8. Can't recommend enough. And Jane Savoie DVD series has been my best friend.

[spaghetti legs]

LOL, I have never done such a thing.

Not that I intend to get into a mud fight here, but it is fairly obvious that you love the idea of horses and riding at a top level, which again, is completely fine, but you have built yourself up in your mind to be something, or someone you are not. One example of many hundreds easily found includes this snipped from a recent discussion on the World Cup meet, you comment "I thought, in the details, that Ashley's ride also lacked some preciseness....There was just a little less of that in Ashley's ride."
When did you get such a highly trained eye for judging the intricacies of dressage at the highest levels? The general tone of your postings imply regularly that you have been competing shoulder to shoulder with the very experienced and professional. Perhaps in your visualisations?

You know, some say visualisations are simply another word for Day Dreaming....

[Ambrey]

When did you get such a highly trained eye for judging the intricacies of dressage at the highest levels? The general tone of your postings imply regularly that you have been competing shoulder to shoulder with the very experienced and professional. Perhaps in your visualisations?


LOL, it's a sport. Not everyone that watches football plays football, and most of the people watching the World Cup are NOT FEI competitors. I think you're really stretching your clear desire to think poorly of me if you decide that my commenting on a dressage competition is paramount to pretending to be an FEI rider.

In fact, I would hazard a guess that at least half of the people who commented on that thread are not FEI level competitors.

So you will have to try again. I understand that there are some people that believe that discussion of dressage should be limited to those who have "earned" their place through FEI level competition, but I am not one of them and I'd hazard a guess that they are the minority on COTH as well.

[spaghetti legs]

No doubt they are in the minority. It takes more than sheer determination, instruction and money to get to the top - you truely have to have some natural ability and feel for what it is you do.

The amusing thing here, is that you use these forums as an escape from what is going on in your real life horse world. You precariously skirt around ever admitting just what your actual - not imagined, level of riding ability is,, all the while offering a critique of an international professional here, or an implication that you're a cashed up hotshot there. I find it a fascinating study into the psychology of women. Do you have a job that requires you to leave the house on a regular basis?

[Ambrey]

The amusing thing here, is that you use these forums as an escape from what is going on in your real life horse world. You precariously skirt around ever admitting just what your actual - not imagined, level of riding ability is,, all the while offering a critique of an international professional here, or an implication that you're a cashed up hotshot there.

Actually, I use these boards to learn about horses and dressage.

Due to the climate on this particular board, I don't generally discuss specific riding issues I'm having here. Recently, however, I've admitted to struggling with sitting trot and canter work- hardly hiding behind anything or claiming to be anything I'm not.

But I guess you'll just continue to believe whatever you want to believe.

(and as for why I am not answering questions, you've demonstrated quite ably that my comments/answers/explanations have no impact on your opinion of me, no matter how well they are based in truth and logic, so why bother?)

[Beasmom]

"Actually, I use these boards to learn about horses and dressage."

Well, if that's the case, here's a poem for you, Ambrey:

A wise old owl sat in an oak,
The more he heard, the less he spoke;
The less he spoke, the more he learned;
Why aren't we all like that wise old bird?

There is nothing wrong with being a learner, with admitting you have issues. We all have "issues". We are all learning. We will learn till we die. You have posted here before asking for suggestions and help, then tell folks why their suggestions will not work, and give excuses why you can't or won't even consider their ideas. Most of the people who responded are experienced, sometimes professional, horsemen.

If you know beforehand you will reject assistance, don't even bother to ask. That's why when you pontificate on elements of riding that are beyond your ken, you look foolish.

Be like the wise owl, read, listen, learn.

"It's better to keep quiet and be thought a fool, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt."

[Carolinadreamin']

Uh....

Riding's a humbling experience. You have to face the realities of your faults and weaknesses, acknowledge them (don't think that includes arguing), and enjoy the struggle (which includes a lot of sweat through riding) and challenge to overcome them. No short cuts, no embellishments, no excuses.

[hammondcrazy@yahoo.com]

Uh....

Riding's a humbling experience. You have to face the realities of your faults and weaknesses, acknowledge them (don't think that includes arguing), and enjoy the struggle (which includes a lot of sweat through riding) and challenge to overcome them. No short cuts, no embellishments, no excuses.

That is so so so true. I have had one hell of a humbling experience and it is still very painful and the sting is so painful that I can't put into words. But I will over come and it will make me a better rider and person. Somethings in life are very much worth fighting for and being a great horseman is one of them.. Mike

[chipkalee]

OK, you answered two of the four questions. Can you be more specific? Have you overcome fear sufficiently to canter? Are you able to ride with an independent seat? Are you working with a professional to improve your fitness on AND OFF the horse?

.... For some time now you have paid lip service to "learning to ride dressage", when in fact you simply need to learn to RIDE. Period. Leave the dressage for when you're comfortable enough to canter, can hold your position through your own strength and balance, and ride in harmony with your horse. Until you can do that, you're not "doing dressage". Dressage is training of the horse, and that can't be done till the rider has the seat, the strength and the balance to control her own body.

[edit] OMG you nailed it. Great post.

[chipkalee]

It's all quite true Ambrey. Self reflection is the riders friend. You need some. Goes waaay farther than any visualization can offer, than anything Jane Savoie can offer. Get real and get experience. [edit]

[BSFKimbees]

Just a comment and a heads up for my possible future postings in the Dressage forum as I'm UP and on foal watch (which is starting to become a habit - maiden mare)...

Had to start with this um, "position post"... Just had to. Have heard it all and it sparked my interest initially. :lol: Now I've REALLY heard it all, lol...

I admire you Dressage riders, more than you know. I'm currently a well schooled Hunt Seat rider (Hunter/Jumper in my youth) and also dabbled in Eventing for a while, until I found out how physically HARD Dressage is. WOW! :eek:

Us Hunters (more so Jumpers) utilize a lot of basic Dressage in our routines, but once you really start to focus on Dressage, it's just so darn physically demanding!

It does not faze me to ride Hunt Seat for a few hours a day (Pluck, pluck, pluck, over a fence, pluck, pluck) but I'll tell you... After a 45 min Dressage lesson, I am BEAT and ready for some "Whine" in a glass cause it kicked my a**!

It's been a few years since I took an honest stab at it, but since my knees have started to give out, I'm starting to consider revisiting the challenge, as Western is just not an option for me :no:. My heart is truly in the Hunters though, at least currently.

Hips are great, lower back and neck not so much. Can replace the knees but not the back. I can sit a deep trot (on a comfy horse) forever as well as a canter, but all those other aids! Focus, I know. Find a comfy horse, preferabley gaited, lol... KIDDING! There's a whole new set of aids...

Anyhoo, I've been looking at the posts in here (the Dressage forum) for a while now and have read some truly GREAT one's... I've actually been a closet COTHER (just the mag's) for YEARS... In paticular and much more recently, I have learned a few things in this post alone:

"The old owl is very wise" indeed.

"Video taping is second to none" because "You can't fix what you can't see".

"Perfect practice" just makes much more sense. And countless others (I should edit to repost them all as there ARE many more).

Lastly, there is NO other forum that I would rather be subcribed to than this one. You are ALL just simply the best... It's easy to get addicted.

See ya in the forums!

[Ambrey]

There is nothing wrong with being a learner, with admitting you have issues. We all have "issues". We are all learning. We will learn till we die. You have posted here before asking for suggestions and help, then tell folks why their suggestions will not work, and give excuses why you can't or won't even consider their ideas. Most of the people who responded are experienced, sometimes professional, horsemen.

Thank you for bringing this back on topic!

Yes, I've found it very hard to find good advice! Especially when things like physical and emotional limitations are labeled "excuses" and trying to overcome them brushed off as something any REAL rider should be able to do easily. It has, at times, left me very frustrated.

And this is why Jane's stuff is different. She tackles physical limitations and fear issues as just another training issue! In fact, she admits to having had some herself in the past :) Her stuff gave me the motivation and tools to tackle those issues and not see them as personal weaknesses.

To the naysayers I say, again, don't knock it until you try it, because it works. Not JUST the visualization, but the changes in self-talk, AND the basic training methods and position fixes. It's not a substitute for having the "eye on the ground," but it's a very powerful supplement.

p.s. I feel the need to clarify my comments quoted in this thread about one of the World Cup riders. The context was discussing her score, and I'd specifically said earlier that hers was one of my favorite rides- I didn't want anyone to think I was just flinging criticism at her.

[hitchinmygetalong]

I'm so happy that some have found a simple solution to their position problems. I wish I had been so fortunate. I read the books, I surfed the web, I took lessons...

Truth of the matter was I was not and never will be a strong, confident rider. I've had three tough falls in my life and I will never, ever lose that bit of self-preservation defensiveness that resulted from the falls. I could never quite "let down" and completely relax on the back of a horse, and it will forever be a handicap for me. I know myself well enough to realize that this is something that will never change.

I did, however, IMPROVE my position over time. And I will tell you that one thing I read probably made more impact than anything - this. (http://secureseatriding.com/about.html) It's not by one of the ODG's, it's not by any modern dressage gurus - it is very simple horsemanship, but it is based on the goal of being SAFE.

I'll never be a great rider, I may never even be a good rider (which is why I am now starting to drive), but that little book has helped me develop my balance to a point where I feel more secure on the top of a horse than I have ever felt.

Riding is a lifelong learning process. We all love to watch the masters and we all have our dreams of becoming a fraction as graceful and proficient as they are. But I have enough self-awareness to realize that just as I will never become a great chef or a master gardener, neither will I be riding at the upper levels at Las Vegas anytime soon. :lol:

One thing I think we can all agree on: Riding is at once one of the most exhilarating yet most humbling of sports. :yes:

[thatmoody]

Oh my yes, humbling. That's all part of the psychological draw for me. The best thing I've done for my position is videotaping my lessons and rides. I can listen to my instructor tell me to sit up till the cows came home, but seeing it on video when I THOUGHT I was sitting up straight already gave me a new awareness of my position.

I hadn't taken a lesson in about a month since my instructor has been ill, and my first lesson back yesterday was incredibly difficult, as I'd gotten into so many bad habits, mostly with my connection and contact (I was dropping him a bit at the canter). But if I take lessons TOO often, I get too dependent on the instructor and forget that I can work out some of these issues on my own. So I like to take at least 4 riding days out of the week to just go off on my own and really focus while I'm riding about what I'm doing, when no one else is riding and things are really quiet at the barn. That kind of visualization, when I'm actually on the horse, is VERY helpful - kind of like a walking meditation.

Oh, and it's funny - I've noticed that when I ride the stallions, my seat is fantastic. When I ride the gelding, I perch just a bit. Since I've been riding the big boys more often, my seat has improved, just from self-preservation - I HAVE to sit deep on them or else! :D.

[FancyFree]

[edit]

As to DVDs and books, they are a great supplement. I have gotten a lot out of them that has added to my riding. I have one DVD that goes through the Training level and First level tests which is great. It was better than anything I could visualize in my mind. But as everyone has said you have to do the work. No DVD can give you the actual feel. Like when I was learning the half halt, I didn't get it until I felt it.

[Moderator 1]

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[mp]

Yes, I've found it very hard to find good advice! Especially when things like physical and emotional limitations are labeled "excuses" and trying to overcome them brushed off as something any REAL rider should be able to do easily. It has, at times, left me very frustrated.

And this is why Jane's stuff is different. She tackles physical limitations and fear issues as just another training issue! In fact, she admits to having had some herself in the past :) Her stuff gave me the motivation and tools to tackle those issues and not see them as personal weaknesses.

To the naysayers I say, again, don't knock it until you try it, because it works. Not JUST the visualization, but the changes in self-talk, AND the basic training methods and position fixes. It's not a substitute for having the "eye on the ground," but it's a very powerful supplement.

I certainly won't naysay any form of learning, whether it's a book or a CD or just watching good riders do their thing. Whatever someone finds helpful and won't be detrimental to the horse is A-OK in my book. But unless you're at least an advanced rider -- and neither you nor I fall into that category -- you still need an instructor who can help you get the feel of what is correct.

I mentioned a long time ago that you needed to look for someone who can break down the learning into the simplest, most basic terms because that's what an adult who's learning to ride must have. And you defended your trainer. But I'm going to tell you again that you will never get over your fear and physical issues until you find someone to help you address them. Riding in a pelham (or any other equipment that makes you feel safer) is not a long-term answer.

You also have to confront those issues yourself. Not ride through them, mind you. Confront them, own them and decide you will do whatever it takes to make progress toward overcoming them. And if that means NOT riding for a while or only taking longeline lessons or getting a horse that's more appropriate for you, then that's what has to be done.

Or take up another hobby. Because without that kind of do or die commitment, your horse will be a continuing source of frustration.

I've mentioned before that I had many of the same challenges you have, including the green rider/green horse combo, broken bones from several falls and the terror that accompanies them. Totally sucks. But you can get past it. I am proof that you can.

Now go for it and good luck.

Back to Jane Savoie -- I got her books on dressage for every rider probably 8 or 9 years ago. I found them interesting but not very helpful. Not her fault. I didn't have enough experience to understand them. I think I'll get them out again.

For myself, when I was at my lowest point in riding, I found Sally Swift's tape on Centered Riding to be the most helpful. I need to get that back out again, too. I'm sure there's a lot I missed there, too.

[Ambrey]

Actually if you read more of Jane's stuff, you'll find that dealing with fear is a big part of her program! And indeed, without switching trainers, I've made huge strides by implementing her techniques :)

I'll note a particular technique I've used, in case it could help someone else. One thing Jane teaches is that "you can't visualize "don't." So when you're riding along thinking "don't spook, don't spook, don't spook" you're actually visualizing "spook, spook, spook!"

Now, I had a particular area at the barn where I had to cross a concrete driveway, at the same time as we passed the dreaded horse-eating water truck and the men's restroom, from which people occasionally magically appear out of nowhere. Smokey invariably spooked either in that area or leading up to that area, and I always had horrible visions of how hard that concrete would feel when I fell (mind you, I haven't fallen since the accident).

Instead of thinking "stay calm, don't spook" I started just visualizing Smokey walking calmly past the area. In my mind, we were both calm and happy and relaxed. And voila, Smokey stopped spooking there!

I didn't even think of spooking, of water trucks, of people walking out of the bathroom- I only visualized us calmly, happily walking by that area.

When Jane talks about visualization, it's not ALL about the off-the-horse stuff (although that stuff works too!), a lot of it is on-the-horse visualization (Centered Riding has a lot of that too).

[Tiligsmom]

You know...the content is solid.

My pet peeve about some of these instructional videos is the instructor annunciates as if the learner is: a) hearing impaired, or b) has English as a 2nd language, or c) under 7 years old!

I just finished watching the Position, Position, Position dvd series and the instructor used similar inflections to emphasize points. Maddening!

[mp]

Ambrey, I'm glad to hear you are getting past spooky areas successfully. That's a big win, and a huge first step toward building your confidence.

The next step is to start building your skills, so "not falling off" is no longer a goal and you can stop worrying about spooks altogether. You realize every horse is going to be silly from time to time, but you also know you can deal with it. As I've become a better rider, my horses just don't do spook as often. A connection? Naaaah! ;)

But I'm going to be blunt with you once more. Your trainer's band-aid approach and all the reading/CD watching/researching/etc in the world won't get you there. You'll make some progress, but you won't connect the dots or get as far as you want without the kind of instructor I described in my last post. I don't have to read more of Jane's stuff or even see you ride to know that.

You can do it if you really want to, but there are things you have to change. Sorry, but that's the truth. Again, best of luck to you.

[Ambrey]

But I'm going to be blunt with you once more. Your trainer's band-aid approach and all the reading/CD watching/researching/etc in the world won't get you there. You'll make some progress, but you won't connect the dots or get as far as you want without the kind of instructor I described in my last post. I don't have to read more of Jane's stuff or even see you ride to know that.

We'll see how far I get with my current trainer. I really can't fault him- both my horse and I have progressed quite well with him. I certainly won't say there will never be a time when I want something different, though.

But it's not a race, it's a journey- I'll cross that bridge when I get there :) Smokey is only 8, he has a lot of years yet to find out where his limits are, as do I!

[HighFlyinBey++]

Hi All,
Just wanted to let you know I only post under my own name.

Also, I very much agree that you have to ride. Put I also believe that "Practice doesn't make perfect"..."Perfect" practice makes perfect. If you ride, ride, ride, ride, and always sit crookedly, you will get very good at sitting crookedly because that's what you've been practicing.


The only time you can practice "perfectly" is in your imagination. And since your subconscious mind can't tell the difference between what's real and what's vividly imagined, you get some quality practice time in your mind's eye...rather than just logging miles on your horse while confirming the same old mistakes.

We all struggle with our positions every day. All I'm trying to do is give riders more tools to help them with their personal challenges.

I post under my horse's name because it's prettier and easier to pronounce without mistakes :D

Jane (or anyone else for that matter), I have a question about the portion of the post that I've bolded:

If a rider is consistently tipping and collapsing to the right, could the horse respond to the imbalance by becoming sore in his right hip and the resulting stiffness then cause further trouble while going to the right?

No, the rider isn't me. Physical & mental issues have kept me out of the saddle for a couple of years. The rider in question is just someone I ran across somewhere a while back. She seemed to have all these problems and excuses for why she couldn't fix them but could never seem to admit that her level of riding might have had something to do with it. She talked a big game but couldn't ever put her money where her mouth was.

Anyway, I'm just curious if I was on the right track with my line of thinking. Thanks!

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

Hi All,
Just wanted to let you know I only post under my own name.

Also, I very much agree that you have to ride. Put I also believe that "Practice doesn't make perfect"..."Perfect" practice makes perfect. If you ride, ride, ride, ride, and always sit crookedly, you will get very good at sitting crookedly because that's what you've been practicing.


The only time you can practice "perfectly" is in your imagination. And since your subconscious mind can't tell the difference between what's real and what's vividly imagined, you get some quality practice time in your mind's eye...rather than just logging miles on your horse while confirming the same old mistakes.

We all struggle with our positions every day. All I'm trying to do is give riders more tools to help them with their personal challenges.

I have a question - the first book I read of yours, That Winning Feeling - I really did try and picture every detail as you suggested. What I do worry about, since sometimes you don't realize your own crookedness - how do you avoid that?

I think this has been the hardest aspect for me (and I'm sure my trainer would agree) - being able to feel with brain and body working together (if that makes sense). For me, the first step towards a better path is the understanding and acceptance that something that feels right isn't necessarily so. It's just what feels "normal" to you.

[Jane Savoie]

Dressage Geek,
I know EXACTLY what you're saying. Our innate crookedness makes us think we're straight when we're not.

First, isolate your habitual problems with the HELP of your instructor, videos, or pictures. Then use the appropriate image and "buzzword" to make corrections. After many repetitions, your "new" way of sitting will become automatic and instinctive.

(Then be sure to get checked from time to time by instructor, videos, pictures to make sure you haven't over-corrected! ;))

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

THANK YOU!!

getting the buzzword - that's what I need! I have a pretty good idea, now, of most of the issues...it's collecting those visuals where you think the phrase and instantly "know." My trainer will try and say it in different ways, but you have to "hear" it.

[hammondcrazy@yahoo.com]

My bad habit was slouching. I looked at my first video and said OH MY GOD!!!! that isn't me is it???? I looked horrid. I then kept thinking puff my chest sit deep and erect. Not like I was sitting. I also had a problem with my right shoulder always a bit behind twisted I don't know how you call it but my instructor drilled me in that and also the slouching thing. Those problems are long since gone, But of course others pop up naturally. I was in Rapid City working for a lady and she traveled all over the world and I had to ride her horses keep their training up and I will say this and I stand by this. I used two methods one ,, Video camera and two videos. Jane Savoie's videos were like opening up a can of instructor!! with my videos and hers I was doing great, basics basics basics no matter how good you are. Musicians no matter how long they have been playing or accomplished they get they still practice scales. I also watched Anky Van Grunsven videos ,even though they are not instructional videos they helped me and I am between rider positions right now I am still watching those videos and getting so much. It is not the end all thing, however in SW Missouri where it is all Western and Fox Trotters, no Dressage or HJ for that matter what else is there??? I am learning the piano and organ from videos and it is a lot cheaper than lessons and it is up to me to get there and with videos you need to be a self starter and be hard on yourself without accepting mediocrity. I am defending the video methods when there just isn't anything else. There are so many places in this country that Dressage just isn't there. Try finding a FEI instructor or barn in Moab or Monticello Utah. Videos sometimes are the only way to go coupled with video taping yourself. By the way I am not ranting and this is not a rant. I am just supporting the video idea when there isn't anything else. Or if you just can't afford lessons and a trainer. I learned so so so much from Jane Savoie's videos and watching YouTube. Books are great as well. It is amazing you can actually learn the guitar from you tube. Mike.

[Ambrey]

DGRH, Jane has a lot of exercises to help with that. The buzzwords are so helpful for me too! A few examples... "row row your boat" at the walk, when you canter you pretend your hands are attached to the bit with two sticks, but when you trot it's like washing clothes on a washboard. For some reason I am so happy whenever I'm practicing free walk while singing "row row row your boat!"

[slc2]

We need a new phrase for COH - 'Jane has something for that!'

[Hony]

I have read Jane's book innumerable times and it really has helped. I used to visualize XC courses before I rode them....or tell courses to my horse before we rode them and couldn't figure out why it worked until I read that book. I think I was convinced my horse just understood english and knew what was coming next!
The place where it has really helped me has been in my dressage. In particular maintaining the connection and using my body to help my horse to remain balanced through figures.
More recently I have used it for show jumping. Several weeks ago I had an absolutely fabulous jump over quite a large oxer. I practiced in my mind's eye and for a brief moment I had that feeling nailed in my head as an understanding (hope that makes sense). It was like I just knew how to do it in an innate kind of way. Unfortunately it hasn't stayed there but I know that through more visualization it will eventually be burned into my mind and then I'll just know the feeling I'm trying to achieve. Riding really is all in your mind. This is probably why A type personalities struggle so much. If you can get your head around it then you can do it.

[Heit]

That is really neat that you told your horse your course before you rode it... ill bet it did give you another way to visualize it and verbalize it out loud!! that is probably what your subconscious grabbed onto... cool!!

[buck22]

I'm a low level rider, converted to dressage from the western world, who's rusty and out of practice on a funky green rehab pony thats a little too smart for his own good and has bucking down to a science (my other pony raised it to an artform) :D I own a business, partner in another, my boyfriend is a huge pain in the ass, and do self care boarding at a ghetto barn that always needs something fixed :lol: I've never in my life seen my horses as often as I do now, and I've never ridden so little :lol: If I'm lucky I ride 3x a week and I don't have a coach.

Visualizations work wonders for me. I feel my riding and understanding advancing despite how little I ride. Yes, a ton of my problems is lack of core strength, and there is no way but the hard way to earn that. But I'm aware of it.

To me, visualization when I can't ride heightens my awareness when I do ride and my entire body because I'm paying strong attention. I find I don't practice mistakes as much (the ones I'm aware of anyhow), and I'm more aware of whats feeling wrong and whats feeling right.... Since I don't ride with a coach, I don't have eyes on the ground to stop me from slouching, etc,. With a visualization strongly embedded in my mind, I am trying to get my body to match what I'm seeing in my mind and it makes me acutely aware when it feels wrong. I allow things to be wrong less of the time now too, a stride or two before I change up, rather than trying to struggle through, etc.

Before horses, I was a skydiver for a few years. No serious levels, just fun stuff, but being able to visualize your jump before going, and then being able to recount the entire experience was a tremendous portion of being a safe and responsible skydiver. In fact, if you could not recount your entire jump verbally, within 10 min of being on the ground, from getting on the plane to bringing your chute up to the packing area, you were either warned or asked to leave permanently. Why? Because the lack of memory and ability to recall showed that the jumper was over faced, they were overwhelmed and couldn't think straight. It proves they weren't aware of their surroundings and themselves the entire time. That means they could be dangerous and unpredictable, and nobody wants that around. So you were given one chance for a boo-boo, and then asked to leave and take up bowling if you did it again :lol: And you trained for your jump verbally and did visualizations on the ground before going, there was no *practicing* falling out of a plane, visualizations is all you had to go on.

I look back on all the times I was schooling, feeling anxious, etc, and couldn't remember which way I turned my horse for the barrel, or how many strides to a combo, or whether I saluted or not, etc... that, to me anyhow, shows a lack of awareness. Visualizing really helps me become incredibly aware and I don't have that lapse as much any more.

I get confidence through feeling prepared, even though I may not have ever performed the task before.

I find too, when I'm aware, I'm less anxious and can employ soft eyes better.

I dunno if any of this makes sense.:lol:

[Ambrey]

This is so funny- on the launch page for the program, they've listed how to know you do NOT need this position program:

So, we think pretty much everyone can benefit from this program. However, you DON'T need it if:


Your teacher doesn't have to nag you about the same position faults every lesson.
Your hands are always steady.
You sit the trot perfectly.
You always sit straight.
Your heels are always down.
You never grip with your legs.
Your position is always in harmony with your horse so he doesn't have to tune you out because he can't hear what you're asking through the chaos of a noisy position.
Your mind and body are in synch as far as what you think you want your horse to do and how you actually give the aids.
Your horse stays reliably on the bit because you always offer an elastic contact.
You can instantly feel where you're crooked, rigid, or unsteady.
Your muscles never ache because you're holding yourself on your horse through tension.
Your teacher tells you to move a body part, and you can instantly do what she asks.
You're coming to dressage from another discipline such as the hunters, and don't have a problem retraining your body to sit differently.
You're a multi-discipline rider like an event rider who is versatile enough to make specific, unique corrections and can adapt quickly to each discipline.
You always get 9's or 10's for your position score in competition.


Note, I fail on the first 3 ;)

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

I also think "talking it out helps." I think the more senses you use, the more it becomes a solid part of you.

[Ambrey]

Actually, what really intrigues me are the CDs they include to put on your i-pod and listen to while riding.

[Heit]

I'm a low level rider, converted to dressage from the western world, who's rusty and out of practice on a funky green rehab pony thats a little too smart for his own good and has bucking down to a science (my other pony raised it to an artform) :D I own a business, partner in another, my boyfriend is a huge pain in the ass, and do self care boarding at a ghetto barn that always needs something fixed :lol: I've never in my life seen my horses as often as I do now, and I've never ridden so little :lol: If I'm lucky I ride 3x a week and I don't have a coach.

Visualizations work wonders for me. I feel my riding and understanding advancing despite how little I ride. Yes, a ton of my problems is lack of core strength, and there is no way but the hard way to earn that. But I'm aware of it.

To me, visualization when I can't ride heightens my awareness when I do ride and my entire body because I'm paying strong attention. I find I don't practice mistakes as much (the ones I'm aware of anyhow), and I'm more aware of whats feeling wrong and whats feeling right.... Since I don't ride with a coach, I don't have eyes on the ground to stop me from slouching, etc,. With a visualization strongly embedded in my mind, I am trying to get my body to match what I'm seeing in my mind and it makes me acutely aware when it feels wrong. I allow things to be wrong less of the time now too, a stride or two before I change up, rather than trying to struggle through, etc.

Before horses, I was a skydiver for a few years. No serious levels, just fun stuff, but being able to visualize your jump before going, and then being able to recount the entire experience was a tremendous portion of being a safe and responsible skydiver. In fact, if you could not recount your entire jump verbally, within 10 min of being on the ground, from getting on the plane to bringing your chute up to the packing area, you were either warned or asked to leave permanently. Why? Because the lack of memory and ability to recall showed that the jumper was over faced, they were overwhelmed and couldn't think straight. It proves they weren't aware of their surroundings and themselves the entire time. That means they could be dangerous and unpredictable, and nobody wants that around. So you were given one chance for a boo-boo, and then asked to leave and take up bowling if you did it again :lol: And you trained for your jump verbally and did visualizations on the ground before going, there was no *practicing* falling out of a plane, visualizations is all you had to go on.

I look back on all the times I was schooling, feeling anxious, etc, and couldn't remember which way I turned my horse for the barrel, or how many strides to a combo, or whether I saluted or not, etc... that, to me anyhow, shows a lack of awareness. Visualizing really helps me become incredibly aware and I don't have that lapse as much any more.

I get confidence through feeling prepared, even though I may not have ever performed the task before.

I find too, when I'm aware, I'm less anxious and can employ soft eyes better.

I dunno if any of this makes sense.:lol:

What a great post... yes i know exactly what you mean... i used to get very nervous before competition because i NEVER felt prepared, and visualizing myself riding this or that to the best of my ability helped me get over that in a big way... im still no 9 or 10 rider, but i can PICTURE myself being an 8!! Thanks for the great post.

[Moderator 1]

We removed an OT tangent on migraines and beverage choices. If you'd like to discuss non-horse-related topics, please do so via PM so the thread stays on track.

Thanks!
Mod 1

[Heit]

You gus were talking about audo... here is a segment i found on Ruth's site from the program. Some great ideas and i can listed to it my car on the way to the barn!!

Here is a clip from the INTRODUCTORY AUDIO CD. The link is

http://www.ruthhoganpoulsen.com/position-program-4-21-09.html

its at the top of the page... just hit play.

[Hazelnut]

Buck22 hit the nail on the head with that post.

Visualization is a strong and powerful tool that is used in law enforcement and the military. You can't train in life threatening situations daily, but you can visulize yourself handling life threatening situations daily and coming out on top and going home alive.

I just attended a sports psychology seminar for equestrians. Positive and realistic visualization is considered a key component for positive accomplishment along with appropriate skills for the level one is riding.

Watching video of good riders before I go to the barn then visualizing myself riding as they do is the single most powerful tool for improving my position - I watch over and over. Then I ride. Then I video myself and then I start all over. I do ride with an instructor.

I just spent four days at the World cup. I watched good riding all day and visualized in the AM and before sleep and came home charged and ready to ride...

There are different kinds of learners in this world. Each of us has to decide what helps us the most and spend our time and money and energy on that. And if one never becomes an upper level rider...is there any harm in becoming a better more secure lower level rider or mid level and horseperson?