Rider position problem - I need a plan.

[saultgirl]

I had to go a few months without lessons over the winter, and now that I'm getting back into the swing of things, I'm finding that I am very crooked in the saddle.

I am always carrying my right shoulder ahead. When I am turning left it is quite a severe twist. I recognize that part of this is my horse not being light enough to my aids, and I am "throwing away" my position to some extent to "get it done" (i.e., a turn, circle, or straightening).

My horse is four and does not lunge reliably enough for me to do lunge lessons, but I am taking lessons once a week now. I am making my horse crooked; he does not stay straight because I am not straight! He is learning quite quickly that it is easy to drift right and bulge right!

I'm trying to formulate a plan for my rides in between my lessons. Some things that are helping keep me straighter:
-when I ride down the centre line, or quarter line;
-when I think about looking to right a little bit to help bring my right shoulder back
-sitting trot is better because I twist when I post.

I am thinking I should go back to working on some basic leg yeilding at the walk/trot to see if I can get those responses a little better.

I'm asking for ideas for exercises on horseback AND general exercises to help me with this problem.

I usually ride 5 or 6 days per week.

[goeslikestink]

check out my helpful links page up above under on the stivky by mods it tells you how to alter your stirrups as that effects your position read all links on page 1 as its all relevent
thn read other relevent ones lunging is at the botttom

[rugbygirl]

Can you get on a different horse, just to sort of "jar" yourself out of the habit?

If you do it on the other horse too, this obviously won't help ;)

It's not always a great idea to get on another horse, but I know that in riding green horses, sometimes you adapt your riding a little TOO much to suit them. You need to hop on a different one for a session or so just to shake it out.

[Gloria]

No matter how hard I tried, I was not able to get rid of my crookedness until I started to take Yoga and Pilate lessons regularly. You need to be able to feel your own body and catch yourself whenever you are crooked and the best way to have that awareness is on the ground, not on the horse back, JMHO....

[saultgirl]

Can you get on a different horse, just to sort of "jar" yourself out of the habit?

If you do it on the other horse too, this obviously won't help ;)

It's not always a great idea to get on another horse, but I know that in riding green horses, sometimes you adapt your riding a little TOO much to suit them. You need to hop on a different one for a session or so just to shake it out.

Actually, yes, I rode a different horse three times this week, and it did help a bit -- this horse would NOT trot unless I was sitting straight, and that also helped me realize just how crooked I was.

[saultgirl]

check out my helpful links page up above under on the stivky by mods it tells you how to alter your stirrups as that effects your position read all links on page 1 as its all relevent
thn read other relevent ones lunging is at the botttom


ok, i'll do that.

[whicker]

Any chance you could work with a PT for a few sessions?

I found that I had all sorts of kinks from previous injuries that I had forgotten about. When there is an injury that "shocks" the body, the nerve shuts down and there is atrophy. I found out that I had to jump start the nerves each time they got shocked or tired. and that was frequently during rehab. Then there are adhesions that glue parts together that aren't suppose to be together.

The pt can give you homework off the horse, frequently in front of a mirror to help you check your alignment . The ones I do only take 15 minutes. Some of them can be done subtly at work or in the car.

One of my favorites for abdominal core strength and breathing is singing in the car...

[saultgirl]

No matter how hard I tried, I was not able to get rid of my crookedness until I started to take Yoga and Pilate lessons regularly. You need to be able to feel your own body and catch yourself whenever you are crooked and the best way to have that awareness is on the ground, not on the horse back, JMHO....

Although I can't afford any other kinds of lessons, I do try to do some balancing-type stretches with an exercise ball.

[saultgirl]

Any chance you could work with a PT for a few sessions?

I found that I had all sorts of kinks from previous injuries that I had forgotten about. When there is an injury that "shocks" the body, the nerve shuts down and there is atrophy. I found out that I had to jump start the nerves each time they got shocked or tired. and that was frequently during rehab. Then there are adhesions that glue parts together that aren't suppose to be together.

The pt can give you homework off the horse, frequently in front of a mirror to help you check your alignment . The ones I do only take 15 minutes. Some of them can be done subtly at work or in the car.

One of my favorites for abdominal core strength and breathing is singing in the car...

I'm assuming "PT" is physiotherapist? I hadn't thought of that, but that IS a good idea! Thanks!

[slc2]

Part of it is just saying to yourself, 'I'm just not going to do this any more, starting NOW', and make sure your shoulder points forward, not so far in. We can accomplish an awful lot by simply being determined and focused.

If your right shoulder twists forward, ride first with your right arm raised straight over your head, and then your left arm(doing your left arm last puts you rright shoulder where it belongs). Reach down and touch first your left toe with your right hand, and then your right toe with your left hand, then twist at the waist, so you look behind you in both directions, finishing with twisting to the right. When you sense your right shoulder sneaking up on your horse's ear, repeat the exercises.

Too, go to the source of the problem. Get a reaction to your aids - to a light aid, and if you don't immediately get a reaction, escalate. Horses think in a simple way. If a light aid is ignored and instantly, immediately is followed by a good smack with the whip, the horse will try to 'train' the rider by immediately reacting to the light aid. As one trainer said, 'I want no human pretzels in my ring!' Don't twist yourself up - get a reaction to your aids, and 'don't let the horse talk you in to riding badly'.

[egontoast]

It's great that you are riding 5-6 times a week. That's how progress is made :)

But those of us who ridie a lot on our own without enough instruction get habits.
Sometimes bad habits. I think the best way to conquer this is to get some trainer help- intense over a short period if not for the long term- or if that's not possible - a reasonably talented friend who can be eyes on the ground. Going it alone sometimes results in ingrained bad habits!:)

When I am without trainer or eyes on the ground I often set up a video cam in the corner. Very illuminating. Not as good as coaching but better than nothing.

[Beasmom]

You're getting many good suggestions here. One thing that helped me (with a different problem entirely) was a visit to a chiropractor. This particular chiro specializes in sports medicine, and his wife's a rider, so he's familiar with rider problems.

He did more to straighten out my position than a year's worth of lessons.

Just something to consider. Try to find one with a sports emphasis.

[saultgirl]

Part of it is just saying to yourself, 'I'm just not going to do this any more, starting NOW', and make sure your shoulder points forward, not so far in. We can accomplish an awful lot by simply being determined and focused.

Yes, I definitely agree with this. I was pretty successful at fixing my uneven hands problem by just thinking about that one thing for several rides (I went through a phase of carrying my left hand too high compared to my right). Isolating the one thing really helped, but the shoulder really seems to be a whole-body problem!


If your right shoulder twists forward, ride first with your right arm raised straight over your head, and then your left arm(doing your left arm last puts you rright shoulder where it belongs). Reach down and touch first your left toe with your right hand, and then your right toe with your left hand, then twist at the waist, so you look behind you in both directions, finishing with twisting to the right. When you sense your right shoulder sneaking up on your horse's ear, repeat the exercises.

Sounds like something worth trying. I could probably do those things at the walk with my horse without a problem. Then I just need to be disciplined enough to come back to walk and get my proper position back if I start to lose it!

Too, go to the source of the problem. Get a reaction to your aids - to a light aid, and if you don't immediately get a reaction, escalate. Horses think in a simple way. If a light aid is ignored and instantly, immediately is followed by a good smack with the whip, the horse will try to 'train' the rider by immediately reacting to the light aid. As one trainer said, 'I want no human pretzels in my ring!' Don't twist yourself up - get a reaction to your aids, and 'don't let the horse talk you in to riding badly'.
I DO realize this is a part of my problem.



Thanks

[saultgirl]

It's great that you are riding 5-6 times a week. That's how progress is made :)

But those of us who ridie a lot on our own without enough instruction get habits.
Sometimes bad habits. I think the best way to conquer this is to get some trainer help- intense over a short period if not for the long term- or if that's not possible - a reasonably talented friend who can be eyes on the ground. Going it alone sometimes results in ingrained bad habits!:)

When I am without trainer or eyes on the ground I often set up a video cam in the corner. Very illuminating. Not as good as coaching but better than nothing.

Well, I have been riding 5-6 days per week for at least the last 4 years, with no long periods off (not the same horse!). But I'm still not a very good rider!

I might not have mentioned originally, but I'm back to my regular schedule of lessons once per week. I had just missed out on lessons December through March (I think I took one lesson during that time) because I changed barns and schedules got all changed around... But man, do I ever notice a difference after being on my own for that time!

I also have had someone video me during lessons, which is great (fabulous learning tool) and actually I have had my bf come and take a bunch of regular photos; it's amazing how you can see how problems are starting even just with still pictures.

Another thing I like about a video of me riding my new horse: I realized that some of the parts of a ride that felt so horrible did not actually look that bad and it reassured me that my horse and I still looked overall, pretty nice together!

[saultgirl]

You're getting many good suggestions here. One thing that helped me (with a different problem entirely) was a visit to a chiropractor. This particular chiro specializes in sports medicine, and his wife's a rider, so he's familiar with rider problems.

He did more to straighten out my position than a year's worth of lessons.

Just something to consider. Try to find one with a sports emphasis.

I do go to a chiro if I'm having any pain or discomfort, but I've been quite comfortable lately. Did you go because you felt crooked or did you have pain/discomfort?

[Beasmom]

I had a long time problem with my right leg. No matter how I tried to keep it under control, it seemed to have a mind of its own. It was wobbly and ineffective. Lunge line lessons helped, but the problem never really went away.

After I took a fall with a client's horse, I decided an adjustment would be in order. I had some hip and sciatica pain, and believed it was due to the fall.

This chiro gave me an examination, had me bend this way and that, tested muscle strengths and so forth. He decided my right hip flexor was weak and doing nothing at all to help me stabilize my core. He prescribed an exercise to strengthen it. By the next examination, my right hip flexor was stronger than the left one! So I had to do the exercise on both sides to even things out.

My coach noticed an immediate improvement in my right leg and overall posture and core strength. I've always been a sort of loosey-goosey rider -- a tad TOO supple, if you will. The chiropractor's exercise helped me get control of my Slinky Toy self.

We compensate with other parts of our bodies when one part is not working quite right. I compensated for the weak right hip flexor by gripping slightly, with my right toe pointing out. I probably never sat down perfectly square in the saddle, either. I collapsed to the right with my upper body. I'm still a long way from perfect, but getting the hip flexor deal fixed has helped so much.

I'm just sorry I didn't get it fixed years ago!

[whicker]

PT is a physiotherapist or a physical therapist. There are quite a variety of specialties within that discipline. The one that helped me the most has advanced certification in orthopedic and neurology. She is quialified to teach at the medical school hospital level. She also happens to be a very good horseman, so she knows how a rider uses her body and pelvis.

I can tell her that my horse locked up on the right rein at a canter and threw in some awful strides and a slam dance, and she can understand what that means. Then she translates into my body reactions, fixes my jams, and gives me the exercise to improve. I have had hyper- mobility in my pelvic ligaments, which then sets off the damaged back and the then the nerves do their thing.

I hope you give it a try.

[mvp]

That's true for addicts but also for riders!

There is a serious point. I think straightness in the saddle has two parts, body awareness and then body control. Many of us walk around crooked, too. We build up muscle strength and awareness that makes us thinks we're straight. Nothing like a horse to tell you what's really straight.

One exercise that works for me is to ride figure eights in a lesson, and then alone.

In the lesson, I ask my ground person to tell me what adjustments I need to become straight. I change my position to achieve that and then ride for a while, noting any sensation I can that goes with it.

Then I switch directions and get straightened again. I pay attention to what it feels like. When I ride the figure eight, I try to re-create the sensations I had when straight in each direction. This helps me build body awareness and strength needed to maintain these new, correct positions. Like a horse, I seem to learn by contrast, so switching direction often helps me. Also like a horse, I need to remodel my body slowly until the new position becomes natural.

I do the same thing at home. I ride alone and without mirrors, so the figure eight, my horse's own straightness and responsiveness in both directions helps keep me in line.

Hope this helps!

[Dressage Art]

If you are crooked, try canter with out stirrups - it'll put you on the middle of the saddle and will be difficult for you to be crooked.

[goeslikestink]

If you are crooked, try canter with out stirrups - it'll put you on the middle of the saddle and will be difficult for you to be crooked.

hows shes surpposed to to this with an untrianed horse

shes a novice rider on a noive horse of 4yrs old

[NJRider]

FYI- Got this e-mail from Jane's Savoie's site today.


Hi Everyone!

Sorry this email is so long, but I have some
very exciting news for you.

As you might know, Ruth Hogan-Poulsen and I
have produced a lot of educational products
over the years.

But the one thing you keep telling us is that
you want help with your position.

Well, we heard you loud and clear.
* You told us you're sick and tired of wasting
time in your riding lessons because your
instructor has to repeat the same old corrections
over and over?
* You've told us that you're FRUSTRATED because
you want to start working on something new with
your riding instructor, instead of the same old
position, position, position?
* You're sick and tired of spending lesson MONEY
to work on the same old position problems.
* You're frustrated because you have trouble
sitting the trot.

And we've come up with a solution for you.
We've created an innovative program to
PROGRAM YOUR POSITION. We give you a shorthand
language that changes the software in your
subconscious mind so you can cut quickly and
easily trigger position corrections.

For a preview of that shorthand language, go to:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAcm1fE6H5w

At this point you might be wondering why Ruth
and I decided to develop this program together.

First of all, we've known each other and worked
together for more than 25 years. And to this day
we're each other's eyes on the ground.

Secondly, we bring our own individual strengths
to the table (um..I mean, to the arena.) Ruth is
a right-brained, artistic, creative thinker
while I'm a left-brained, logical, analytical
thinker. Together we complement each other and
can help riders with different learning styles.

Plus, we've each struggled with our own unique
set of position problems.

My main problem (as I've freely admitted to on
many occasions) is that I'm not a naturally
gifted rider. Yes, I'm a "trained" rider. But
things never came easily to me. And I found it
so FRUSTRATING to struggle day after day with
an uncooperative body.

Another issue is that I have very little awareness
of where my body is in space. Someone can say to
me "right shoulder", and I have to ask, "Is it
forward? Is it back? Is it down? What exactly do
you mean by "right shoulder"?

Finally, my old personal approach to problem
solving--will power--just wasn't working. No matter
how hard I tried, I couldn't force myself to sit
the trot better, or sit squarely in the saddle.

And Ruth has her own set of issues that come
primarily from old injuries and habits. An old
shoulder dislocation causes her to naturally carry
her right shoulder more forward than her left one.
She has chronic back problems because when she
was young, she rode with too much strength and
not enough relaxation.

Between the two of us, we can relate to pretty
much every problem out there! So we put this
program together for you because we figured that
if we've had these kinds of challenges with our
own positions, there are probably a lot of other
people with similar problems.

But there are other reasons why we complement
each other so well.

First of all, Ruth is a master analyst and
"dissector" of position problems. She can help
you get to the ROOT of your problem.
For example, you might think your problem is that
your hands aren't steady in sitting trot. But that
might not be the problem at all.

Not only can Ruth explain that the core of your
unsteady hands problem comes from your seat. But
she can tell what to do to fix it!

My contribution is that for decades, I've studied
how the subconscious mind works. I realized early
on in my riding career that will-power might help
me stay on a diet or get me to the gym, but
will-power and "iron-jawed determination" were not
going to help me with my position faults.

I learned that you can only make short term changes
by directing your efforts to your conscious mind.
If you want to make permanent, you need to direct
your efforts to your SUBCONSCIOUS mind.

And that's why this program works!

Not only will you reprogram your subconscious mind
through visualization. But we'll also give you a
shortcut so you can self-correct through anchoring
key words and phrases that we call buzz words.

After all, when you're trying to recognize and
correct position problems, you need to be able
to do it QUICKLY and EASILY--without a long
explanation of how to do things like open your
pelvis, lift your sternum, raise one side of your
rib cage, or let your legs drape around your horse.

You need a clear mental picture of what a correct
position looks like. This program efficiently pares
down all those overwhelming explanations into one
BUZZ WORD or PHRASE.

Then you can use that BUZZ WORD to TRIGGER those
position corrections. The BUZZ WORDS work as a
shorthand language to instantly correct
your position.

Cheers!
Jane and Ruth

P.S. Once again, if you'd like to see a sample
of how we use the buzz words, go to:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAcm1fE6H5w

P.P.S. We're working on another video clip so we'll
send the new Youtube link to you once we get it up.
(Look for it either tomorrow or the day after.)




Jane Savoie

[saultgirl]

If you are crooked, try canter with out stirrups - it'll put you on the middle of the saddle and will be difficult for you to be crooked.

Haha! That would probably be ok if i didn't twist myself into a pretzel to get a canter transition! But we are going to leave that for another discussion for now :) I do some trot without stirrups but I haven't for quite a while; I guess I could throw some of that in here and there.

goeslikestink: what gives you the impression that I am a novice rider on an untrained horse?

[saultgirl]

NJRider: That's fabulous, thanks for posting. I didn't get a chance to review the video but I will look into it later today!

[RodeoQueen]

I too, struggled with crookedness following an accident. I went to Physical Therapy for 6 weeks or so and it helped tremendously. Purchase a PT Tube - here's an article about how the tube works:

http://archives.chicagotribune.com/2008/aug/24/health/chi-0824deardorffaug24

The tube helps align you by allowing muscles to relax and you can perform exercises to build strength in your core correctly. I spent $30 on the tube and it's my lifeline.

BTW, I ride STRAIGHT thanks to the tube! YOUR body must have core strength and straightness before you can ride straight on any horse.

l.