thrush problem

[Beaulovee]

I have an older TB gelding who's in full training for BN eventing, hes turning (turned) 20 in the next month.. he's a QH type and has always had strong, hard, VERY low mantinence feet, and never, ever had thrush except for those periods where is was non-stop rain and they had to go out in bad mud..

this winter i started using a new farrier because my old one wouldn't come out to my new barn for just one horse, and within a week of moving in he had boriums and pads put on. His shoeing schedual has been ALL messed up because his feet wern't growing, and then the barn had them done without my permission etc etc etc. anyways its now april, and he isn't due for new shoes untill the middle of may and hes feet are disgusting with thrush, yes we've had some bad rain and the barn is incapable at cleaning his (very easy to clean stall) but i don't know what to do. I can only imagine what his feet look like under the pads/shoes and i've been doing all the thrush treatments i can on him and it isn't making a difference.

Questions are... is there anything else i can do to help the thrush?
should i just give in and have the farrier switch him out now?

...and off topic. do you all keep your boriums and use them for multiple years? i was always told you shouldn't because they warp, but its common practice at the new barn.

thanks for the help [=

[merrygoround]

You need to sit down and have a discussion with the farrier, about getting the pads and boriium off. Or get another farrier. BN eventers should not need studs and besides eventers that do use studs use removable ones that can be changed or left out entirely. As for the pads. ?
Must you be at a barn where all this goes on and they don't properly clean stalls?

[BornToRide]

Recurring trush problems (and other skin issues in general) really come from the inside out. It is a sign that the tissue is not healthy enough to resist the invasions of opportunistic pathogens and being in wetter weather and having other contributing factors, such as pads does exacerbate the weakness even further.

Weak frogs are usually a sign that a horse is either

Getting too many NSCs (sugars/starches) in the diet
not getting enough zin and copper to maintain good hoof and skin healthZinc and copper uptake can be interefered with by

compromised digestive tract (ulcers/worms)
too much iron in forgae and/or waterI would treat this aggressively from the outside with White Lightning, and I would also make sure the he gets everything from the inside to grow healthy frogs.

My gelding is out in very wet conditions along with 2 Tenn Walkers. He gets only grass hay and magnesium and vit supplement, while they were getting straight alfalfa AND grain. Guess who had the problem frogs that peeled like soft cheese when you'd clean them with a hoof pick?

[chancellor2]

Sometimes I wonder if it is possible to fix grumpy farrier problems by making sure they eat 'the right stuff'.

Honestly, why does he have pads on? To me, full pads are just asking for thrush problems.

[BuddyRoo]

Well....as others have mentioned...nutrition and environment both play a pretty big role. Add to that the pads and there ya go. A recipe for providing a great environment for thrush.

Why does he have pads?

Why can't they clean his stall? Standing in muck and urine isn't exactly conducive to healthy feet.

Not knowing the why behind the pads, I guess I don't know what to tell you there. For BN, I wouldn't think you'd NEED studs...but again, I don't know enough about that.


If it were ME, I'd say to hell with the pads and shoes for now and pull those ASAP. I'd probably do a cleantrax treatment, move barns if they can't clean a stall and try to get hooked back up w/ old farrier--even if I had to haul.

[mybeau1999]

My QH has pretty crappy feet. I've tried lots of things trying to make them healthier - I'm confident moving him home will help, since BO won't feed him anything but her grain she has mixed and won't feed supplements regularly (and doles it out to other horses in the process)... yea, it sucks.

But, he gets thrush if the ground is wet for 2-3 days. I did have pads put on him in 2007 because we were competing alot (BN, also), the ground was really hard and he had some stone bruise issues and didn't want it to happen again.

Pour-ins were great - he didn't get thrush under them. But I was at work when the farrier came one day and he put normal (don't know the real name) pads on because he missed my note and forgot. I called and he told me to just squirt some kopertox in, near the frog a few times a week. I did and didn't have any problems with those pads. I think staying on top of it and not letting it develop definitely helped.

I also agree with the other posters about looking for a new barn, if that's an option. And a new farrier.

[Beaulovee]

i guess i should have specified he has boriums on because i live in northern New England and he isn't steady on his feet on ice, he just isnt. Without them he wouldn't have had turn out all winter and that would be just as bad. And he doesn't have full pads, just the ones that follow the shape of the shoe and leave the frog exposed, also so that he can go out in the winter.

And his stall isn't disgusting by anymeans, they just don't do it to the level that I do. To their defense his stall isn't matted so theres a slight pit where he peed and rocks all around. Hopefully thats all changing this summer. The only reason i am at this barn is because it is the only barn i can afford at the moment. Horses are extra expesive in my area, and this place allows me to work of some board which helps keep the old man around...goodness knows what would happen to a 20 year old OTTB with a "special" personality these days.


The feed is an interesting point, since it did change when i moved him but it just switched from Purina Ultium to Blue Seal Strider (done over time, of course) Could that have contributed to the problem (i don't pretend to know enough about feed...)


Over the summer i hopefully will get him out of this barn into all day turnout, and i'd love to try him barefoot so goos things should be on their way-but i have this to deal with now.

thanks!

EDIT: Also, i have no real backing to this but he has a very healthy shiny coat that shed out wonderfully, his personality has been the same, and i haven't noticed any change in him throughout this whole process..

[Gayla]

I have been battling thrush for almost a year in my mare. It is now almost cured from White lightening. It is great stuff. But you should take the shoes off before you use it. She had on front shoes and I did a white lightening treatment. Under the shoe it doesn't work. the metal interferes with the chemical reaction and it is ineffective. So now she has rims of thrush around her hoof wall where the shoes were. Good luck with your horse. :)

[merrygoround]

Most horses that go completly barefoot can manage snow and ice well. I hope the borium on your shoes is in the form of embedded beads rather than the applied borium which is hard to get even and is way too lumpy. The rim pads are the norm with shoes in the winter, they are designed to pop snow out.

[Mozart]

A couple of thoughts, from someone whose 22 year old TB has had his share of thrush issues....

I do think that some older horses just don't have a great immune system anymore and you start to see them being unable to fight off bugs that formerly were not a problem. However, if the thrush is only now an issue since moving to this barn...something has changed for the worse and you have to figure out a way to change it back.

Is there any reason he can't be barefoot in the winter? Especially considering that he used to have great feet? Shoes are slippery but bare feet are designed to deal with snow and ice.

I presume you no longer have snow and ice. Get the borium and pads (are they snow ball pads?) off asap. Whether or not your BN horse can go without corks will depend on the kind of soil your competitions run on. If he can go without corks and he used to have good feet..how about barefoot?

If he is going to need corks (and you can get this information from other experienced eventers in your area)..okay, shoes with cork holes...but he could go without pads, right?


I am wondering if perhaps his heels are getting contracted as that would contribute to the thrush...do his feet look different now vs when the other farrier did them?

[Shadow14]

I assume the pads are to prevent snowballing in the winter and the borium studs are for traction. They can be used all season so you could reuse the shoes in the summer. Borium does NOT cause warping of the shoes.
You could ask for rim pads next winter. They leave the frog open and yet prevent snowballing.
Borium does provide descent traction without the same risks of corking himself.
Next winter ask for borium agian and rim pads all around.
As for traction on ice, there is absolutely no comparison between barefoot and borium studs, none..
I use copper sulfate, I heat water to a boil and disolve as much copper sulfate in the boiling water as I can and then put that mixture when it cools in a squeeze bottle?? I work in a lab so squeeze bottles are normal to me. An old dish washer soap container will work. Every night when I pick his feet I squeeze a little of this copper sulfate around the frog and using the hoof pick work it in anywhere that I suspect thrush could start.
The shoes can be pulled, the pads removed and using the same holes reapply the shoes.

[elio]

I have had thrush issues so for winter shoeing we changed the pads. They leave the frog area bare so that thrush medication can be applied. They have worked wonderfully for me and we have been able to hold thrush issues at bay. The snow does not pack in his feet either. I have now added a hoof supplement to my horses diet and we are actually starting a new regimen of feeding this week (switching from Omolene to Strategy). He was body scored and is a 5 but he is 18 with a bit of a hay belly. Perhaps is not digetsting his hay efficiently so we are initiating the switch. When I do get any mild thrush I use Thrush Buster and it will take care of the problem.

[Mozart]

OP says horse currently has rim pads. So it is not just the fact that this horse spent the winter in pads that covered the entire sole. Something else has changed.

[Shadow14]

OP says horse currently has rim pads. So it is not just the fact that this horse spent the winter in pads that covered the entire sole. Something else has changed.

From her original post I didn't get the impressions she has rim pads??

Quote from original post
I can only imagine what his feet look like under the pads/shoes and i've been doing all the thrush treatments i can on him and it isn't making a difference


I would assume these are full pads??

[IIIBarsV]

Sounds like there is more than to problem than just thrush. Stonebruises, gimpy feet, and now thrush that pops up in only two or three days of wet weather... to me, that means someone has likely been over-trimming this horse's sole and frog for a long time, or there are other hoof form problems going on. An over-trimmed frog is more susceptible to pathogenic microorganisms then a frog left with flappies- trim down below the calloused frog and make it look "grey" and you're left with tissue that isn't tough enough to withstand an offensive microorganism.... not to mention the frog-ground pressure is minimized, which leads to potential contraction of the sulcus, which leads to a nice place for thrushies to get into....

Anywho, your actual farrier issues are a whole nother thread waiting to happen. I use a product called Virkon that you can probably buy at the local feed/farm store. It's a non-caustic anti-bacterial, anti-fungal, and anti-viral that will not harm living tissues. You mix it with water and presto! I have used it against thrush, and other tough buggies such as rainrot, scratches, skin infections, etc, very successfully.

It often only takes a couple of treatments and very cheap to buy, not messy and won't stain your clothes! Since it is a liquid, you could just use a large syringe and flush out under the pads every couple of days.

In the meantime, I would do some investigation on possible reasons *why* your horse has hoof issues.... "bad genetics" is NOT always a viable answer to the "why" question.

[Mozart]

From her original post I didn't get the impressions she has rim pads??

Quote from original post
I can only imagine what his feet look like under the pads/shoes and i've been doing all the thrush treatments i can on him and it isn't making a difference


I would assume these are full pads??

I thought so too but the second post said they were the type that followed the shape of the shoe and left the frog exposed. So rim pads? :confused:

[Shadow14]

Sounds like there is more than to problem than just thrush. Stonebruises, gimpy feet, and now thrush that pops up in only two or three days of wet weather... to me, that means someone has likely been over-trimming this horse's sole and frog for a long time,
.

How do you read all this into the foot from the original posting?? The pads would also prevent stone bruising. Overtrimming of sole and frog agian from a simple posting without seeing the foot and pulling the pad??

Your good

Could you tell me if my guy is shod correctly or am I in for problems???

[BornToRide]

How do you read all this into the foot from the original posting?? The pads would also prevent stone bruising. Overtrimming of sole and frog agian from a simple posting without seeing the foot and pulling the pad??

Your good

Could you tell me if my guy is shod correctly or am I in for problems???
Read Beaulovee other post! Horse was not wearing a full pad. And unfortunately overtrimming of the sole is commonly done when setting for shoes which often leads to bruising.

[goeslikestink]

[QUOTE=Beaulovee;4028881]I have an older TB gelding who's in full training for BN eventing, hes turning (turned) 20 in the next month.. he's a QH type and has always had strong, hard, VERY low mantinence feet, and never, ever had thrush except for those periods where is was non-stop rain and they had to go out in bad mud..

this winter i started using a new farrier because my old one wouldn't come out to my new barn for just one horse, and within a week of moving in he had boriums and pads put on. His shoeing schedual has been ALL messed up because his feet wern't growing, and then the barn had them done without my permission etc etc etc. anyways its now april, and he isn't due for new shoes untill the middle of may and hes feet are disgusting with thrush, yes we've had some bad rain and the barn is incapable at cleaning his (very easy to clean stall) but i don't know what to do. I can only imagine what his feet look like under the pads/shoes and i've been doing all the thrush treatments i can on him and it isn't making a difference.


i would change barns as they are not clean enough nor do they have standards
sounds to me the horse is on studs to keep his foot higher away from the dirty stables
which is cuasing you to have thrush
studs are used for eventing and there are serveral types but they are taken out after
you have competed aand then the stud hole is filled with a plug which you take out when you need you studs back in



Questions are... is there anything else i can do to help the thrush?
should i just give in and have the farrier switch him out now?

http://horseshoes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6053

read the link and do exactly as thomas says if you dont you will get secondary infection and then you will need a vet anda farrier

ditch the yard and the farrier and find a new yard which is clean and has standards
look mate if they are clean then how the heck is your horse surposed to jump
then they not fed properly either as slap dash method and dosh takers

wake up move yards - cheap is as cheap does spend a bit more and go to a decent yard
that has high hygene protocol and high welfare management for your horse

[Shadow14]

Read Beaulovee other post! Horse was not wearing a full pad. And unfortunately overtrimming of the sole is commonly done when setting for shoes which often leads to bruising.

Your right. I read the original post and responded to it. I see she later posted agian that she has rim pads. As for thrush under the shoe?? How do you get thrush under a shoe?? Why do you have to pull a shoe to treat thrush? How can you say she has thrush under a shoe??
There is also no way a barefoot horse can handle alot of ice. Not even leading a horse a 100 feet down a shear ice driveway barefoot? Try it with Drillteck, corks/studs or borium and the horse never misses a step. Shoes are required in some places.
I missed the part about stone bruising? Is the horse lame?
Shoes are not the evil things alot of you barefoot trimmers try to make them out to be. I would need to severely alter my riding pleasure if it wasn't for shoes. Aluminum last a week, steel about 6 weeks, so how could a bare foot survive this severe abuse??
Even rim pads protect the sole.
She is asking how to deal with thrush. Coppertox is a commercial product.
If I have to deal with thrush and I run into it very little but if I do I cut into it with my knife to open it as much as possible and use copper sulphate daily working it into the thrush with my hoof pick. Agian personally I have never had a problem. If while shoeing I run into anything under the shoe, after trimming I will cut it out or follow it up into the wall and then again use copper sulphate. But I will reshoe the horse at the time.

[Shadow14]

[QUOTE=Beaulovee;4028881]
i would change barns as they are not clean enough nor do they have standards
sounds to me the horse is on studs to keep his foot higher away from the dirty stables
which is cuasing you to have thrush
studs are used for eventing and there are serveral types but they are taken out after
you have competed aand then the stud hole is filled with a plug which you take out when you need you studs back in






These are borium studs, not screw in studs. A borium rod is like a big straw, a metal straw and inside this straw is coarse grit carbide flakes. You take a torch and melt the straw unto the shoe and as it melts these coarse sharp carbide flakes are transfered to the shoe . they are not very high, about 1/4 inch and only provide traction on ice and pavement. The risk of a horse corking himself is very low compared to studs. These simple studs will not keep a horse up and out of the dirt. Drilltec is like borium only a coarser carbide. If the horse is just going out days and in nights picking the feet daily and treating with coppertox should clear it up. White lightning is for deep thrush and not available all over.

[Rick Burten]

White lightning is for deep thrush and not available all over.
If you have a computer and internet access it is. :)

[Shadow14]

If you have a computer and internet access it is. :)

I live in Canada and we have some funny laws about needing a vet perscription for everything, no over the counter White lightning for us and our local vet says it is no longer available here.