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fp
Apr. 14, 2009, 11:08 AM
I'm looking for some help determining a reasonable price (for both parties) on a pony. 5yr old medium pony. Very nice mover and is fancy. Will jump a course no problem and has auto changes. Wont pass a vet check (arthritis), but is sound with no soundness issues to date. The pony has not been shown. What do you think would be a reasonable price in this economy?

OneMoreTime
Apr. 14, 2009, 11:15 AM
Where are you? There is a good bit of regional variation in terms of what people seem to be paying.

ExJumper
Apr. 14, 2009, 11:16 AM
5 years old and already has enough arthritis that it won't pass the ppe? That would REALLY take a bite out if it, especially in this economy.

I don't know a TON about ponies, but I know what I would think if this were a horse. Unless it is really fancy or an AMAZING kid's pony, I really wouldn't think you'd get more than a few thousand.

There are a lot of nice green ponies out there that aren't going to fail the ppe.

But I could be wrong. I don't know pony pricing that well.

fp
Apr. 14, 2009, 11:18 AM
We are on the East Coast. Its not our pony, just trying to get pricing ideas on what would be reasonable for a pony like this.

luvs2ridewbs
Apr. 14, 2009, 11:20 AM
Lease the pony. You will make more money leasing it each year then selling it for a very low price due to the fact that it won't pass the vet. Ponies are very lease-able since kids grow out of them.

ExJumper
Apr. 14, 2009, 11:22 AM
Lease the pony. You will make more money leasing it each year then selling it for a very low price due to the fact that it won't pass the vet. Ponies are very lease-able since kids grow out of them.

I agree completely. You could make as much per year as I think you could sell this pony for outright.

fp
Apr. 14, 2009, 11:23 AM
Evidently the pony has arthritic changes and has failed several PPE because of it. The pony is a super fancy little thing and will pack around kids, but not a rank beginner (just learning to steer, stop etc). I am just trying to get an idea of what would be a reasonable offer on a pony like this.

WorthTheWait95
Apr. 14, 2009, 11:29 AM
Evidently the pony has arthritic changes and has failed several PPE because of it. The pony is a super fancy little thing and will pack around kids, but in no way is a beginners pony. I am just trying to get an idea of what would be a reasonable offer on a pony like this.

As the other people have said leasing is your best option but if you need to sell I would probably price it at $2-5K. That arthritis at 5 is kind of a big deal...

If you're looking to buy the pony I would honestly stay away from it...the arthritis will only get worse down the road and you may not be able to sell him again. Maybe ask if they would be open to a lease.

showmom858
Apr. 14, 2009, 11:52 AM
I agree with everyone else that the owners should try and lease the pony. If you have a competitive local circuit in the area then this pony could be marketed to kids that ride pony hunters in that circuit.

As a parent that had a medium pony for a number of years that we bought green, I know that the only way to sell one in this economy is for it to be a packer with auto changes and will pass the ppe.

etopolsk
Apr. 14, 2009, 11:56 AM
I think 2,500 is accurate, but the person better have a place to retire it if it is no longer sound. Ponies live a long time. As a pony mom I probably wouldn't pay much if anything to lease a young green arthritic pony when right now people are trying to free lease very very nice ponies all over the place just to get the bills paid.

mvp
Apr. 14, 2009, 12:06 PM
Yes, peeps showing on the local circuit want/need/expect a lower price tag on a pony.

But a 5 year-old who won't pass a PPE with arthritic changes, is not a beginner's ride and hasn't yet been shown? Kind of an unknown quantity.

So if the poster's advice to market sell (not lease) to someone in the local circuit is taken, small timers: CAVEAT EMPTOR.

Those who don't want to pay lots up front also won't/can't put lots of $$ into maintenance.

It might serve this pony well to not live on a full-time circuit. But less work that comes with a less well-off or treatment-savvy home won't serve him well either.

I do hope parents looking for a nice pony and some modest showing for their kid that won't break the bank will still takes this as a "heads up" to insist in a PPE and to ask for the lease option that might work out better and be more common in the rated show world.

Tini Sea Soldier
Apr. 14, 2009, 12:06 PM
Leasing is your best option.

However, taking a few things into consideration... a responsible owner will make sure that a pony that has some predisposed issues (in this case, arthritis) is maintained for the long haul.

If it were my pony, I'd attempt to lease the pony for $300-350/month. If it's a good pony and an intermediate child can learn alot on it... or a trainer can use it for intermediate to advanced kids... than it will be worth it's weight in gold. Auto changes and an honest jumper will make it attractive. Where is the arthritis? Can it be somewhat alleviated with some sort of injections? If that was the case, as owner, I would set aside the $$$ to make sure the pony was injected once or twice a year (according to vet recommendations and usage of pony). Spending about $500 a year to make sure your pony holds up for the long haul is a "sound investment"---pun intended.:winkgrin:

There are plenty of top ponies out there that will flunk the vet on 3 out of 4 legs and still go for $$$$. Remember, safety of child is usually paramount... so parents will sometimes assume some maintenance or will accept a flaw here and there, if the trainer thinks the kid is the right fit. Plus, with leasing, there's always the option of handing pony back and washing their hands of the deal.

Do your homework... or encourage the parents to do theirs... and base your decision on what the vet suggests... ask them if they think the pony will hold up with a minimal maintenance plan... how much they think the pony can do before it will break down (i.e. bc of age, can pony march around a 2'6 pony hunter course for years... or will the arthritis likely make it difficult for the pony to do more than hop around some crossrails?). They may not have the answers... but it doesn't hurt to ask.

findeight
Apr. 14, 2009, 12:26 PM
There are tons of Green Medium Ponies out there sitting with no action WITH show experience and ribbons.

I just am surprised anybody thinks somebody would pay to lease an unshown, no record at all, never set foot in the show ring 5 yo Medium with arthritis to the point a vet would likely recommend against purchase.

I mean, they'd be paying the seller/owner money to lease and then have to put money into finishing the training and getting it into the ring...then give it back after it's finished? Nobody is going to pay 300 or 400 a month for that "privilege" on a Medium that has to have a small child rider.

And how big is it? Does it have a card? Or have you only measured it at home? If it's 12.1 3/4 it's going to be more marketable then 11.3 and, again, that's because it needs the smaller rider.

Small and Medium Pony shoppers are looking for top of the line (max height) packers that have proven they can pack the proper size and age child in the show ring and get them a prize.

Children's Pony and Short Stirrup, the height is not that important but a proven record of safely packing the little ones around a course is.

Personally, anything with arthritis to the point it would put off a PPE vet at age 5 having never even been in a regular lesson and show program is a huge red light for purchase and the total lack of show experience is not going to get you anything as a lease Pony.

So what's it worth? Not much unless you can get it into the show ring.

fp
Apr. 14, 2009, 12:40 PM
I guess I should give more info. I am looking to purchase this pony for my daughter. We are not a wealthy home, but can certainly afford whatever maintenance the pony would require (I already have one horse with soundness issues I maintain). We leased this pony for a year and my daughter showed him on a local circuit w/t while we had him. No over fences showing, so I guess I should have been more clear in my original post but I'm at work so was rushing. :) My daughter w/t/c and jumped him in her lessons on him while we leased him and he was good for her. I dont believe he would be good for a rank beginner, but was good for my daughter (who is in SS now) with regular tune up rides. We got very attached to this pony during the course of our lease as he is sweet and personable, plus they worked well together.

My intentions are not to buy a pony with the hopes of selling it for profit, but rather a nice pony that she could comepete on locally that wasnt an arm and a leg. I live in an area where ponies are insanely priced and EVERYTHING is marketed as a hunter pony. I just want an idea from people in the business on what would be a fair market price for both us and his owners. My husband (who is not horsey) gave me a number which is in line with what I'm reading here.

ExJumper
Apr. 14, 2009, 12:42 PM
If you are willing to do the upkeep AND you are willing to accept the fact that the pony might be un-ridable in a few years due to arthritic degeneration, than I suppose this might be the pony for you. I wouldn't pay very much for it at all though...

scheibyee
Apr. 14, 2009, 12:59 PM
I think the pony purchase wouldn't be the end of the world if you were looking under 5k. Just for future reference a SS rider is generally considered "beginner" so when you say a "beginner" couldn't ride it, most people think only a good kid already doing the pony divisions could do it. If it's easy enough and your daughter loves it and the price is right considering the arthritis - go for it. Just be aware that you're probably not going to be able to resell the pony and will probably give it to someone as a companion pony when your daughter is done with it. It could hold up though, you never know - stranger things have happened, then maybe you could lease it out afterwards as long as it's not hurting the pony. It doesn't look like you're looking for something to jump into the mediums with and it sounds like it could take her from ss to maybe the childrens if it has no problems now and by then she'll probably need a large/horse anyways.

findeight
Apr. 14, 2009, 01:11 PM
Under 5 for sure...maybe all the way to 2500.

It's just not the kind of Pony that will sell (or lease) unless it's a special situation.

While it sounds like this may be a good situation for the Pony...how will this child feel if it does not hold up for Jumping? What will you do when she grows out of it in 2 years? Keep it forever? And can you get her another mount AND keep this one or do you need to sell or lease this one to get her onto something else when the time comes? Or will she just quit if this one breaks or her feet start dragging the ground?

I am in a barn that deals extensively with Ponies and it's a tough market out there even for high quality, sound, proven animals. This Pony is not worth that much and has some issues that won't go away. Make a low offer and if they don't take it? Look elsewhere.

Remember, if you are on a budget, the costs of upkeep are the same. And if DD wants to continue to advance as a rider, this Pony is a dead end with that arthritis at age 5 doing W/T. It cannot grow with her as she advances past the 2' fences assuming it holds up there.

Just give it some thought. Especially if they want more then it's worth in this market.

fp
Apr. 14, 2009, 01:27 PM
You are right in that description on beginners and I apologize for terming it that way. I still consider my daughter a beginner, but was thinking more along the lines of a kid who doesnt even know the basics. The thing for me is the owners are wanting to recoup their investment I guess and asking a price that is a bit high. I am new to hunters so I was not sure if the price was reasonable given his issue (he is sound now - no lameness- with no maintenance at the moment). Now if lets say someone was buying him with the intentions on showing him in the Medium division now (he's 13h measured with a stick), as he is capable with a kid that can, would that make him worth more to you? I believe they have been marketing him as a division pony. I dont honestly think they will take an offer in the range you all are giving, but at least it give me an idea of what is realistic.

Hunter Mom
Apr. 14, 2009, 01:37 PM
I don't think I'd jump into this one. I understand your daughter loves Pony, and know how that goes. HOWEVER, I agree with others - how is she going to feel when Pony isn't sound enough to jump in a year or two.

Have you had a PPE already? X-rays? How do you know he has arthritis? Can you get the x-rays from the other PPEs and share with your vet to get their opinion? If you have your heart set on him, visit with the vet about what it will take to maintain this pony.

You also don't mention how old or tall your daughter is. Will the pony last her more than a year or so? Is he a big medium or a small medium?

All that said, as a mother of a little person, having a pony who you trust with your daughter means a lot. An awful lot.

fp
Apr. 14, 2009, 01:38 PM
So in your opinion he would not be able to take her very far as she advances? I realize arthritis is a problem that will get worse with time, but is he really that much of a risk if he is on nothing to maintain it and shows no soundness problems now? I am definitely thinking this through, which is why all the question. :)

shawneeAcres
Apr. 14, 2009, 01:45 PM
Ponies like this, in todays economy are hard to GIVE away, much less sell. Having said that, if you are willing to take the chance I would be offering under $2000 for the pony. There are plenty out there without the arthritis that are very reasonably priced right now, maybe not the FANCY ones, but the solid ones that will do the locals and win. Arthritis is a crap shoot, with maintenance he may go forever. I have a student on a 22 yr old pony who was known to have arthritis and need maintenance thru most of his show career. He was the TOTAL packer and we snapped him up a few years ago when he came on the market. He is finally at a point now that he will take her thru SS for as much of this year as possible (he is really having soem difficulty now) and then will be walk/trotter for her younger sister. So they can last a long time, but then again they may not. If his arthritic changes are in the hocks, and his hocks fuse, he may be fine. If in other joints I would not risk it.

fp
Apr. 14, 2009, 01:45 PM
"Have you had a PPE already? X-rays? How do you know he has arthritis? Can you get the x-rays from the other PPEs and share with your vet to get their opinion? If you have your heart set on him, visit with the vet about what it will take to maintain this pony. "

We did not. The owners told us about it when we started leasing him. I was told that he was xrayed when they had a buyer and he had failed do to "slight arthritic changes." I could have my vet xray the pony and look at them (which I would if we decided to buy and they accepted the offer).

"You also don't mention how old or tall your daughter is. Will the pony last her more than a year or so? Is he a big medium or a small medium?"

He is 13h measured with a stick. My daughter is 8.

ExJumper
Apr. 14, 2009, 01:45 PM
So in your opinion he would not be able to take her very far as she advances? I realize arthritis is a problem that will get worse with time, but is he really that much of a risk if he is on nothing to maintain it and shows no soundness problems now? I am definitely thinking this through, which is why all the question. :)

I think we all would agree that there is an unusual amount of risk with a 5 year old pony who already has enough arthritic changes that it won't pass a ppe.

I would expect a 12 year old horse to have a few changes. I would expect a 15 year old horse to have more. I would not personally buy a 5 year old animal with that diagnosis unless I had a family farm/land where I could turn it our for the rest of its life.

Maybe it will be fine for another 10 years. But it is more likely that it won't. It's a big risk. It is NOT usual for 5 year olds to have arthritic changes, and certainly not to have them to the extent that you are describing.

Edited to add: I posted while the OP was making their last post where the changes were described as "slight." I think my advice still stands, though. Too much risk for my blood.

fp
Apr. 14, 2009, 01:52 PM
Thank you for your input ExJumper. We dont board, we have our own property so at least there is no board money coming into play. I appreciate all the advice and the opinions as I really want to make an informed decision.

findeight
Apr. 14, 2009, 01:53 PM
At 13 hands he is not going to be a sure thing in the Regular Mediums. In fact, that height just about dooms him to Children's/SS Ponyland unless you have the money to really get him trained up and a Semi Pro Pony jock to make sure he stays on pace and never misses a spot.

I dunno, you keep saying he is sound and fancy. Fancy compared to what? Newsworthy? Brownlands Mr Mack? Or the other WT, SS Ponies? He is only 5 and never jumped a real course at a show so he is simply a prospect that may or may not ever make a Regular Medium. Plus you have no idea if he will stay as sound as he has been up to 2' with no oxers. Regular Mediums are 2'6", a forward step and there will be oxers.

In other words, this is a totally untested Pony with arthritic issues at an unusually young age that is going to be almost a full 2" shorter then most of the others in a Regular Medium class...and I bet he does not have a card yet and the 13h is what the seller says he is?????

Being a little blunt here but of the sellers want alot for this one, they are barn blind or being mislead...or is this a trainer trying to sell this to you???

Anyway, it's not worth much. Don't get suckered into it unless it is priced according to demonstrated ability and proof of soundness in heavy work over more then crossrails.

goldponies
Apr. 14, 2009, 02:07 PM
This would be a free pony in my barn. If it was a lease it would be a free lease.

Nickelodian
Apr. 14, 2009, 02:09 PM
OTOH, if he is a super cute fancy pony with the step and scope to do the 2'6, and mild arthritis in the hocks or some other generally innocuous joint, that your daughter knows and loves, and you have a home for him, he might be a good option. Getting a packer pony regardless of show miles for 2500-3k would be a great deal *if* the above applied.

I think it really depends on the pony. Who knows, maybe the arthritis will never bother him and you could lease him for years to come.

I wouldn't look to spend more than 3k though, as it IS a risk, and you might have a pony that can't do the 2'6 or can't hold up to the jumps. Have your own vet do another PPE, try to get the xrays released from a year ago, and do a comparison of the arthritis to see if it has progressed. Also, get the vet to stick him, to ensure he really is 13hh and not 12.2 1/2.

fp
Apr. 14, 2009, 02:11 PM
As far as fancy, he is certainly fancier than anything Ive seen on the local stuff here, and as cute as some of the ponies Ive seen at the few A shows we've gone to watch. AS far as the other ponies you mentioned, no idea. I dont know much about hunter stuff and we are not able to "play" in the high up stuff so I dont really keep up with the who is who in the hunter world. Im not looking for something that will take my daughter to Pony Finals or to compete anywhere but the locals. I came here on the advice of a friend to ask questions from people that are more knowledgeable than I am about ponies and this type of stuff. I just want to give as many details as I can to give people the overall picture so I can get a realistic price. Thanks for all the input you have given me as you obviously are very knowledgable on this subject. :)

findeight
Apr. 14, 2009, 02:24 PM
OK...as a local show Pony IF you are willing to gamble, 2500 to 3500 AND you vet takes some new x rays to have a look. And get it measured by the vet.

You know, people hear the high prices some get and forget the Pony involved was circuit champion at WEF like one I named or a Breyer model like the other because of a hugely successful career. Or went to Indoors, won at Pony Finals and so forth. Yeah, those cost as much as a house to buy and an awful lot just to lease. And most of them are top of the line for their height division-this one is 2" short of that-maybe more-and that is a huge influence on price.

The other 99% of all sale/lease Ponies are waaaayyyy under 10k. Like this one should be.

If it's not, you need to pass. Because the fact is an unproven Green Pony that misses top of the line by at least 2" and busted a PPE is a free lease or giveaway in many barns. If it is suitable for a Beginner and can pack, maybe the 2500 to 3500 if they are lucky.

If you want to make an offer, go in with open eyes and keep emotion out of it. This one is not such a good deal.

dags
Apr. 14, 2009, 02:31 PM
$2500 is the number that first came to my head after the original post.

That's what I imagined I might pay, if I was totally budget-stricken and looking for something for myself, if it was all that and a bag of chips to begin with, before the arthritis.

But for a young girl that doesn't understand "arthritis", "maintenance", "must walk for 20 minutes before you can do anything" and, "he's just not right today" tomorrow, next month . . . it might not be as much of a value emotionally as it is financially.

Best case scenario it takes your daughter to the Childrens or even winds up as a division pony, it's only a matter of time before she outgrows and the pony really is useless to you. IF you have done well at the shows with it then you would be in the position to lease it out year after year until it's 20, and you have found a very good deal. There's a lot of ifs to that scenario though.

Where is this arthritis, and what is being done for maintenance now? Has the past year of work been light/moderate/heavy? Lots can be done but truly only time will tell if it can be maintained.

Hunter Mom
Apr. 14, 2009, 03:00 PM
I would say you have to get the opinion of the vet, take into account DD's attachment to the pony and decide IF he does go lame, would you be just as happy having him as a pasture ornament? If so, how expensive of an ornament would you be comfortable with? Could you afford to find her something else if you couldn't sell/lease him next year? You say you do mostly local shows - is he ever going to be expected to be a 2'6" hunter?

That said, there are lots & lots of horses and ponies around with some changes that do fine for years.

greyponies
Apr. 14, 2009, 03:34 PM
I have to agree with everyone above. I realize I'm in Ontario but we are also having the same pony market issues as the US. Good ponies being free leased just to cover expenses for the owner. I have a very cute, fairly fancy 6 year old 14h pony that does have schooling circuit experience, wins the hacks etc. He's sound, adores kids, the whole nine yards. I believe I may have him sold this week - $5500 Cdn is what I'll get for him, so basically I've lost my shirt on him, but the other option for me is to hold out, pay training board, show fees etc. and keep my fingers crossed that I'll recoup those expenses - highly unlikely given today's market. C'est la vie!

A 5 year old 13h pony with arthritic changes that has no show experience truly is worth next to nothing in the current economy. If you and your daughter truly love and enjoy him then make an offer - possibly the amount your husband suggested - and I bet if they don't take you up on your offer now, they'll get back to you in a month saying yes, please take him!

Lucassb
Apr. 14, 2009, 03:54 PM
(snip) The thing for me is the owners are wanting to recoup their investment I guess and asking a price that is a bit high. I am new to hunters so I was not sure if the price was reasonable given his issue (he is sound now - no lameness- with no maintenance at the moment). Now if lets say someone was buying him with the intentions on showing him in the Medium division now (he's 13h measured with a stick), as he is capable with a kid that can, would that make him worth more to you? I believe they have been marketing him as a division pony. I dont honestly think they will take an offer in the range you all are giving, but at least it give me an idea of what is realistic.

He is a small medium and with arthritic issues of any sort at such a young age, you have to assume it is a long shot that this will make a division pony. (And what makes a division pony... is demonstrated success IN that division, no matter how cute he is in the SS or even schooling at home. Most of the successful Mediums are right on the line heightwise, and one that has arthritic issues is potentially going to be limited in its ability to get down the lines easily in the numbers.)

The owners can market him as a Grand Prix horse if they want; it doesn't make it true. The fact that he won't pass a PPE means they will have a hard time selling him as ANYTHING to a knowledgeable buyer unless they are willing to sell him at a big discount to what he would be worth if he *did* pass a vet - particularly given his young age and light use to date.

If you do decide to make an offer, be sure that you are factoring in the cost to keep the animal if and when it is no longer suitable for your child.

Kids tend to grow quickly, and you will want to look ahead to what your contingency plan will be if the pony cannot move up a division, or doesn't stay sound as the work becomes more demanding. Mediums tend not to suit their little riders for long, and thus saleability is usually a BIG consideration when buying one of these for a show home.

If you are able to retire it at a young age or let it be a pasture pet or used for the occasional light hack or trail ride and buy something else for your child to show instead, then there is no problem. Just make sure that you account for the fact that he probably cannot be sold on when your child outgrows him or wants to move on to a division he cannot handle.

fp
Apr. 14, 2009, 04:23 PM
Thank you toeveryone that replied. I've decided not to make an offer. It does seem like a big gamble and especially in this economy...

I guess I'll just try to find another pony for us to lease.

phoenix mom
Apr. 14, 2009, 04:28 PM
Will the owner lease to own? I would offer to lease at a price equal to one third the realistic sale value and have first right of refusal to purchase if another offer comes in. Chances are very high that no other offer will come. Your daughter will be on a large pony soon and you are better off putting your money there. Ponies are easy to fall in love with but it costs no more to feed a sound one. Ask the vet to give you a realistic idea of upkeep costs for this pony. Have your daughter try other ponies too before you commit.

Hunter Mom
Apr. 14, 2009, 04:35 PM
Thank you toeveryone that replied. I've decided not to make an offer. It does seem like a big gamble and especially in this economy...

I guess I'll just try to find another pony for us to lease.

Why not just lease the pony for a year or so? Unless they're dead set that they're going to sell him, you'd have the use of him but could walk away if he does go lame or DD has a big growth spurt or her skills outgrown him.

ponymom64
Apr. 14, 2009, 04:42 PM
If you like the pony and it does a nice job for your child - it might be worth it to have your own PPE done, see what your vet says and then go from there.

I say this because I had a perfectly healthy and sound pony fail a PPE for a lease last summer. I took him to my own vet who found nothing wrong. The pony went on to be SS champion at almost every show he was entered in after that and was not lame a single day.

Lucassb
Apr. 14, 2009, 04:42 PM
Thank you toeveryone that replied. I've decided not to make an offer. It does seem like a big gamble and especially in this economy...

I guess I'll just try to find another pony for us to lease.

I think you made a very wise choice.

I bet that in this economy, you will easily be able to find a very nice larger Medium or even a Large that has no issues and more experience at a very attractive cost, and your child will just as easily fall in love with that one given the opportunity.

There are literally tons of them for sale now, with very few buyers out there. The deals are pretty incredible from what I have seen.

M. O'Connor
Apr. 14, 2009, 05:16 PM
I guess I should give more info. I am looking to purchase this pony for my daughter. We are not a wealthy home, but can certainly afford whatever maintenance the pony would require (I already have one horse with soundness issues I maintain). We leased this pony for a year and my daughter showed him on a local circuit w/t while we had him. No over fences showing, so I guess I should have been more clear in my original post but I'm at work so was rushing. :) My daughter w/t/c and jumped him in her lessons on him while we leased him and he was good for her. I dont believe he would be good for a rank beginner, but was good for my daughter (who is in SS now) with regular tune up rides. We got very attached to this pony during the course of our lease as he is sweet and personable, plus they worked well together.

My intentions are not to buy a pony with the hopes of selling it for profit, but rather a nice pony that she could comepete on locally that wasnt an arm and a leg. I live in an area where ponies are insanely priced and EVERYTHING is marketed as a hunter pony. I just want an idea from people in the business on what would be a fair market price for both us and his owners. My husband (who is not horsey) gave me a number which is in line with what I'm reading here.

I would advise you to look carefully at the short/long term picture. You will not want to limit your daughter's riding due to a lack of "horsepower," but that is what happens to every little rider who doesn't let go when it's time to move on to the next pony, and there has to BE a next pony, because it's really true that "ponies aren't forever."

That being said, we have my daughters' "first" pony, retired in the field, looking after our yearling. (Actually, she was the second pony; we lost the first "first" one only last year, after a long and well deserved retirement).

The key is to manage it well, and organize it so that the pony always has a job, and an agenda, and isn't let sit around to "rust." They are harder to bring back than to keep in work. Make a low offer, let it go if it's not accepted. But have a lease lined up and ready to go, and then work all the time to keep it leased. If the pony is reliable, a good trainer will be able to work at keeping it leased with a job all the time.

Since it is only five, you may find that the pony will gain in reliability as it ages. Five is really very young, and it would be an exceptional pony at that age if it really were a packer. You might find that by 8, it could be described as one, if you keep it in a consistent program, which would make it all the more easy to keep it employed.

If it really has a bad vetting issue, you should think twice about taking it on. 5 is very young to be pronounced to be "arthritic;" as the bones have barely matured. No matter how many PPE's the pony has already had, you will be well advised to get another one. This way you will get firsthand information on the pony's condition from a professional acting in your best interest, and be able to advise you accordingly.

PonyPenny
Apr. 14, 2009, 10:32 PM
I am glad you decided to not make an offer. There are plenty of ponies to try and I am sure your daughter will fall in love with another pony in your price range. Have you also considered a large pony? I got my daughter a large pony at age 8 and that pony lasted her five years. This pony was also five years old. She started doing short stirrup at 2', then moved up to the children's ponies and green rider at 2'6", she then did the green ponies at 2'9" and then the large ponies at 3'. She qualified for pony finals in both green and regular large ponies along with the pony medal, but we did not have the funds to go. The pony was no way a Newsworthy or Vanity Fair, but she got her share of riddons out here on the west coast. By the time she had outgrown the pony, she was ready for a horse and 3' on a horse was a piece of cake.

My daughter is now 14 and has started doing the local and national medals at 3'3" and 3'6". She learned all she knows from that first large pony and had developed a total trust with her. A 14 it was easier for her to let the pony go to a new home. That first pony was not expensive (under $10,000), but had the scope and step to do the rated large ponies. I am glad I got her a large instead of a medium as she was able to have that much more time with the pony before it was time to sell.

fp
Apr. 14, 2009, 11:31 PM
His owners are not open to leasing as they want to sell. I think the majority here is right in that not too many offers will come along at the price they are wanting.

KaraAD
Apr. 15, 2009, 01:35 AM
Thank you toeveryone that replied. I've decided not to make an offer. It does seem like a big gamble and especially in this economy...
I guess I'll just try to find another pony for us to lease.

I'm going to go slightly the other way - I think you should make an offer but I agree that you should offer on the low side - $2,000 to $2,500

Here's why: 1. because your daughter loves him and I assume feels confident riding him now, 2. he is sound now without any maintenance and presumably doing the level of work he will generally be expected to do with your daughter while she is doing short stirrup for the next year or two and 3. I assume that you and your trainer are convinced that he is a good match for her now and the next year or 2 while she does short stirrup). $2,000 dollars for a quiet pony to safely carry her around short stirrup but still giving her the chance to learn to ride something other than a perfect packer and who might pick up a few extra ribbons because he is relatively fancy sounds like a good deal. I agree that his PPE issues and lack of experience keep him from being more expensive but even if he gives your daughter a good experience, $2,000 sounds worth it.

But I have one other BIG IF: in a year or 2, can you afford to buy her a large pony or a horse without selling this pony? (You mentioned that he will live in your yard so board may not be an issue and at $2,000, I assume recouping your cost isn't a big issue.) Two years from now when your daughter either gets too tall for him or wants to move up and he can't stand up to harder work, you MIGHT be able to sell him or lease him out but if at 5 he already has changes enough to fail a PPE, you should consider that you may not be able to sell him. Perhaps you can lease him to another short stirrup child for a few years, but he may need to be retired very early. If you are in a position that this will work for you (because he can retire to your back yard), I think this actually sounds like a good deal for you - assuming you can convince the sellers to see him realistically.

huntermom2002
Apr. 15, 2009, 11:31 AM
I see mentioned that there are all kinds of leases out there and people desperate to move ponies. I would love to find one of those! Im in South FL and need a safe short stirrups pony for my daughter. One with a lead change would be FANTASTIC! Im having a heck of a time finding something reasonable. Im assuming it the area Im in, but it would be so nice to find someone willing to work something out for a kid who has the potential, just not the money to back her.

2ponykids
Apr. 15, 2009, 01:08 PM
I would try putting in a very low offer- $2,000 or under. The worst that happens is that they say no. Maybe they are just willing to get rid of the pony due to the economy. If they do not want to sell the pony, you can always keep looking for something better. I think you could find something in your price range that would pass the vet.

findeight
Apr. 15, 2009, 02:37 PM
Posted elsewhere and will repeat here...a good PPE with x rays will run 800+. 30% or so of the offers discussed here.

Low balling one and then having to ante up almost a grand for a PPE that may come up as a no go anyway isn't much of a bargain.

If you are shopping cheap, look for one already doing what the child wants to do. Buying one to move from 2' to 2'6" on, it needs to be in a 2' to 2'6" program, being ridden 4 or 5 times a week and jumping twice plus the shows.

If it is sound enough doing that, it's sound enough to take a chance on. If it's never done that and has a known issue? That's when I'd pass. I wouldn't waste even more money on a PPE for that big a gamble.

Bent Hickory
Apr. 15, 2009, 10:42 PM
For the love of Pete, where is the common sense? You've had the pony on lease for a year, with no problems and no maintenance? And because some vet a year ago says "arthritic changes" (the standard CYA PPE results), you now have huge doubts? Really?

I scanned the posts but did not see the asking price of this pony. Is it a $20K pony? Probably not. But $5-10K? Maybe.

You've had the pony on the longest trial you're ever possibly going to get. Sounds like it's a safe pony and good fit for your daughter for what she is doing right now. THAT IS WHAT'S IMPORTANT!

But instead, you're going to gamble by 1) listening to the collective voices on these boards who seem to be implying that 2) you can and should find a top-of-the-line, fancy division champion that's a packer to boot for FREE. Good luck!

ExJumper
Apr. 15, 2009, 11:34 PM
top-of-the-line, fancy division champion that's a packer to boot for FREE. Good luck!

It's not top of the line, it's 2 inches short.

It's not a division pony, it's doing cross rails.

It's not a champion, it's hardly shown.

It's still a 5 year old pony and although the kid likes it, it's not a packer.

Sugarbrook
Apr. 15, 2009, 11:51 PM
Huntermom2002, I know some ponies that would do the job for your child. The prices are about 25k. If you are in Wellington area there are lots of top trainers who have these ponies for sale, now.

fp
Apr. 16, 2009, 10:30 AM
Bent Hickory -

The asking price on the pony is $15k. For us, that is a lot of money to spend, but the terms are right for us and we liked him while my daughter rode him. My whole point of coming here was to find out if that was a good price for this pony. I am not looking for an A circuit pony that my daughter can compete nationally or whatever, just around the local stuff. I want to make sure its a good deal (I thought it was high given failing a PPE and not having done much) and I am not being taken because we are novices to the hunter world. My background is in APHA/AQHA so the hunter ponies are a whole new world for me.

Horselove
Apr. 16, 2009, 10:51 AM
fp
I have found buying horses ( or ponies) is directly related to how much you are willing to pay vs how much they a really "worth". If you love this pony and you don't mind parting with $15K then buy it. However, you need to go into that financial decision with your eyes wide open. That $15K (or whatever price you end up paying ) will be sunk costs. No matter how long your daughter rides this boy..........if he isn't passing the vet @ 5 years old..........he certainly won't pass the PPE in a few years. So, selling him down the road will be a distinct challenge.
Keep in mind also, if the arthritic changes are that bad you will have significant "maintenance" costs. Hock and SI injections will run you a few thousand each year. If his arthritis is that bad, you will need to do alot of maintenance to keep him in the ring.

ponymom64
Apr. 16, 2009, 11:06 AM
Bent Hickory -

The asking price on the pony is $15k. For us, that is a lot of money to spend, but the terms are right for us and we liked him while my daughter rode him. My whole point of coming here was to find out if that was a good price for this pony. I am not looking for an A circuit pony that my daughter can compete nationally or whatever, just around the local stuff. I want to make sure its a good deal (I thought it was high given failing a PPE and not having done much) and I am not being taken because we are novices to the hunter world. My background is in APHA/AQHA so the hunter ponies are a whole new world for me.

I think that is a little on the high side, if there truly is a vetting issue. By way of example - I just sold my SS pony for in the neighborhood of that price. He is a wrong sized small, and not a hack winner but he jumps the best, is dead easy, has auto changes and was champion at Ox Ridge, Littlewood and WEF. He was also champion many, many times at the local level in the children's ponies.

For another pricing example - I know of a 5 year old green pony, top of the line small, will be the winner in the green division in 2010 that is also around that price range.

Both would have a clean PPE. These are examples of what that kind of money could get you, so you can make a judgement about the price of your pony.

shawneeAcres
Apr. 16, 2009, 11:48 AM
$15K for that is middle sized medium, only done the cross rails and has arthritic changes at 5 years?? Please rethink this! That is a LOT of money for what you are describing. If no changes AND had shown at least at short stirrup, then yes for that price, but without those two things there is no way I'd pay (or ask!) $15K for this pony, regardless of how "fancy". The proof is in the doing. Now IF you revett the pony and changes are not significant (sometimes what one person thinks is too much is really insignificant) then I would say such a pony would be worth in the $8500 - $10K range since it has no show record other than what YOUR child has done. But the changes would HAVE to be pretty insignificant to warrant that price in my opinion.

fp
Apr. 16, 2009, 12:14 PM
ShawneeAcres-

I thought it was high myself, which is why I posted this. I wanted to get an idea of what was fair, as well as realistic. I have browsed internet ads for ponies and have seen high asking prices, but they were mostly ponies with significant show records.

phoenix mom
Apr. 16, 2009, 12:44 PM
My daughter first pony was a medium sized medium and was not an A circuit pony but won everything on the local circuit. She was used for lessons before we got her and could pack anyone around we sold her 3 years ago for 6,500 she was 10 yrs. old. We bought her for 5,000. We are in the midwest where prices are a little lower than the coasts. She was a great first pony and did not last long because of a growing daughter. I know ponies like this are still out there.

shawneeAcres
Apr. 16, 2009, 12:50 PM
ShawneeAcres-

I thought it was high myself, which is why I posted this. I wanted to get an idea of what was fair, as well as realistic. I have browsed internet ads for ponies and have seen high asking prices, but they were mostly ponies with significant show records.


I know of a LOVELY large pony, packer, has won numrous champs and reserves in the childrens and SS, possibly could be a division pony, but definitely a solid childrens/SS mount, pretty fancy pony (she is a reg. QH but looks like a welsh cross) she is priced at $15K. This pony was winning actively last year on the NC "C" circuit at the HUGE sedgefield "C" shows! I want one of my students parents to buy the pony but they just aren't ready yet!

findeight
Apr. 16, 2009, 01:13 PM
Am familair with alot of Ponies, as in alot alot. Big, big, big time names and local packers.

15k is a pipe dream and anybody who thinks they get their "investment" back or "what we have in him" is smoking the funny stuff.

This one is worth 5k, maybe, due to lack of show experience at anything over crossrails, 13h according to seller and the fact it is not a packer. Add the possible limiting issues down the road and you should not pay more then 3k absolute tops with a PPE since you are buying to do things it has never done. If she was staying in X Rails and WT it would be different, but she wants to move up.

For 5k if you get lucky to 10k where alot are available, you can get nice local Ponies that can cart just about anybody around, may not win the hack but they are cute enough. For 15k-25k you can get a quality Green with more mileage and a clean vet-not the fanciest in there but suitable to be a division Pony at smaller shows and easy to resell when DD grows out of it.

For what you want, local level, no Regular Division or Pony Finals, you need to look under 10k.

Seen many like that around. Get somebody to help you find one...even if you have to ship, it'll save you 5k to 7500 over putting 15k in this questionable and overpriced Pony.

I dunno, sellers have priced this like it was a Green division prospect, it's not.