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View Full Version : HUGE Dilema - Your Advice/Opinions?



gooselover
Apr. 13, 2009, 05:43 PM
I want to board one of my OTTB's for about 1-2 months, mainly for the facility use and for the training (lessons) to further me along. I'm hoping to show him in the late summer/fall. I have a huge, emotional dilema and I need your advice.

My trainer that I have used for years is absolutely the best in alot of people's eyes. This person can make a champion out of you and your horse....absolutely fantastic - and I have learned so very very very much from this person over our 19 years (almost) friendship. We did have a falling where I did not use this person for about 10 years (didn't ride that much, for about five years didn't have any horses - and when I got my 3 OTTB's took them down to this trainer for less than 2 months).

But this trainer has had alot of comings and goings and the reasons are:

1. Lousy feed
2. Using your horse behind your back
3. Charging you for things you did not ask for or want at all

The facility is beautiful, but the feed that is used is, for lack of a better term, NOT horse feed but cattle feed. They will NOT switch (cost effective they say). If you use your own feed, there is no price reduction and they will probably use it on THEIR horses and not yours.

Okay okay, I know what you guys are thinking....but remember, I absolutely love this trainer, have been personal friends for years, I attribute all my championships and knowledge to this trainer....I have done so well. There have been many of us that have used this trainer/BO, left for the same reasons, didn't do as well on our own or under someone else, and came back. Most of us, however, only leave our horses there for a few months and then bring them back home. Just enough time to get some more training in.

So, what would YOU do if you were in this situation. Please tell me. Thanks.

post edit: After reading back over my original post, I can see why everyone had such harsh opinions. The above is true....it's hard, however, to put everything down in a post, and there is so so much more to this post than above - thus making the decision so difficult for me and why alot of you said what you said. What shows above is simply black and white - but in this case, it was not at all just black and white. And I want to make it perfectly clear that this dilema I am in has to do with what I thought was a friendship, a true friendship, and nothing romantically involved at all. Nothing like that at all!

But, all in all, it comes down to the facts, no matter what else there may be to this situation. And again, my many thanks for pointing these facts out. Yes, I was clouded by alot of emotion, and righly so, if you the members knew the whole situation and what other boarder's that have been at this barn, also feel as I do myself. Sometimes a situation is not, to alot of people, so cut and dried, there is alot of gray matter....but it all comes down to one thing, what is right for your horse and right for you. I have come to the decision and realization that this trainer/BO is not the right thing for me anymore, no matter what my feelings may be.

findeight
Apr. 13, 2009, 05:50 PM
1. Lousy feed
2. Using your horse behind your back
3. Charging you for things you did not ask for or want at all

....but remember, I absolutely love this trainer, have been personal friends for years, I attribute all my championships and knowledge to this trainer....I have done so well.


Ummmmmm...and this is your friend because....?????

All I can say is I must have different expectations from friendship and a different definition of a good trainer and person to entrust my horse to.

Maybe...how much better would you have done with a real trainer who properly managed your horse and a friend who looked out for your best interests then this person?

Like I said, I think I have a different definition of "trainer" and "horse care professional" I trust, and pay, to look out for my best interests.

Not in the best mood and maybe negative but...don't you expect more from your "friends" then this?

Queen Latisha
Apr. 13, 2009, 05:55 PM
Why would you want to board there?? I don't care how great the trainer is, it sounds like a bad situation.:eek:

kellyb
Apr. 13, 2009, 05:56 PM
Doesn't sound like a big dilemma at all to me, because there's no way in hell my horse would be going there.

gooselover
Apr. 13, 2009, 05:58 PM
Oh gosh, of course I would expect more, however this is a very complicated situation.

While these things go on behind your back, this trainer would be the first to help you out with extras also with no charge. it's just a very very difficult situation. This trainer would also be the first, if someone was down and out, to help someone out with the past due board....so you can see that there are alot of pro's and con's.....alot!

I think the thing that bothers me the most is the fact that they can and have used your horse behind your back for other things. As an example, years and years ago, I put my horse in training with this person for trailering issues. My boarder friends come to me and said, here is what is going on with your horse - one of the trainers/BO own kids had been wanting to do jumpers, there was no horse in the barn that would jump like mine, so the trainer uses my horse to teach her teenager! I was FURIOUS to say the least!

joiedevie99
Apr. 13, 2009, 06:00 PM
Why would you want to board there?? I don't care how great the trainer is, it sounds like a bad situation.:eek:

Agreed. Boarding there would be out of the question, and friendship would be highly questionable seeing as how this person doesn't seem like much of a horsemen at all. Producing show ring results is certainly on my list of qualities to look for in a trainer, but without a happy horse in a good solid maintenance program, and a level of reliable care that keeps the owners sane, the show ring success is short lived and not worth it. Find a new trainer.

ETA: She is only 'helping' people out to pacify them and try to keep business. If she actually cared she wouldn't do it in the first place.

katie16
Apr. 13, 2009, 06:02 PM
Personally, this friend doesn't sound like too stellar of a person, and worse yet, a horse trainer. IMO, excellent management is a large part of being an excellent trainer. But it sounds like you really like riding under this person, but just don't want your horse there. Not going to pass judgement on you with that - you seem to be aware of the problems, but want to work with him/her anyway. Sounds like the "best case scenario" would be to ship in. That way you could get the training that you think is wonderful, but keep the care of your horse under your own control if he's at home. If that were not a possibility, I would look elsewhere.

Jaegermonster
Apr. 13, 2009, 06:06 PM
Well, I think people like to throw around the words trainer and instructor fairly loosely.
To me, a trainer is someone with an above average knowledge of horses and their care, and how to "teach" them. An instructor is someone who has the knowledge to teach humans.
Apparently the OP's friend has the riding knowlege to be a decent instructor but is a lousy trainer.
And I don't care if the friend were George Morris, no way in hell would my horse being staying at a place with substandard care and a BO I couldn't trust. Wow.

SharonA
Apr. 13, 2009, 06:09 PM
Well, since people keep coming back to this trainer, she/he is never going to change. If winning is more important to you than what your horse is eating for a few months, how your horse is being used when you're not there, and the trainer charging you extra, then go ahead and put your horse there for a few months. It probably won't kill your horse and you'll get what you want , right (to win)?

In my area, there are enough barns with enough fantastic trainers for you to find one who'll help you to excel but who doesn't come with the negatives you've mentioned, but again, that's just here. I guess we're lucky.

Just to play devil's advocate, if this trainer is really that wonderful, why do you mind if she puts someone else on your horse? If you trust her that much, why don't you trust her judgement with who else she puts up? If she already charges you for stuff you don't want, why mind if she's "partial-free-leasing" your horse to another rider? And, if she's the first one to help out someone who's behind on their board, it's probably because she can afford to because she's feeding cattle feed and charging the other boarders enough to subsidize the boarder who can't pay (though in general, I'm all for pitching in alittle to help someone out if they get alittle behind).

This trainer sounds way too complicated and the potential for drama is way too high for me. But again, it's your horse. If winning is your goal and this trainer is the only way to win, then I guess you stay with this trainer. But, sure would be nice to find another way to be a winner (just my opinion).

Lucassb
Apr. 13, 2009, 06:12 PM
I confess it is hard to believe the training is that good with someone who behave so poorly, but you didn't ask for opinions on that score.

So -

In this situation, at most I would ship in for lessons/training (and ship right back out again) or do "weekend clinics" where I might stay overnight but would bring (and feed) my own grain, etc. I might also ask for the show schedule and try to meet up with the trainer on the road, so I'd have the handy excuse of not leaving my horse in their care, while still taking advantage of the training and/or lessons.

Under no circs would I leave my horse in the care of someone who had behaved as described. Personally I don't think I could even ride with a "pro" who used my horse behind my back... but everyone makes their own decisions about such things.

If you want the training but are uncomfortable with the care, you either buy the training without the board, or find a different pro to ride with.

Good luck.

katie16
Apr. 13, 2009, 06:15 PM
Oh gosh, of course I would expect more, however this is a very complicated situation.

While these things go on behind your back, this trainer would be the first to help you out with extras also with no charge. it's just a very very difficult situation. This trainer would also be the first, if someone was down and out, to help someone out with the past due board....so you can see that there are alot of pro's and con's.....alot!

I think the thing that bothers me the most is the fact that they can and have used your horse behind your back for other things. As an example, years and years ago, I put my horse in training with this person for trailering issues. My boarder friends come to me and said, here is what is going on with your horse - one of the trainers/BO own kids had been wanting to do jumpers, there was no horse in the barn that would jump like mine, so the trainer uses my horse to teach her teenager! I was FURIOUS to say the least!

Kindness in one aspect does not make up for the lack thereof in another. Simply because trainer would be the first to help in situation "x" DOES NOT make up for the other deliberate wrong-doings (feed & use issues you mentioned). Maybe not to the same extreme, but your reasoning here sounds to me like the alcoholic husband who beats his wife when in a drunken stupor nearly every night, but the wife claims that when he's not drunk he's really wonderful and he always makes it up to her.

Knowing that you have had a problem that made you FURIOUS in the past, and you sound like this $^&* is still going on in one way or another, I would definitely stear clear. If you do go back, and something happens that you don't like, than you have no one to blame but yourself. There is a phrase that goes something like: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

findeight
Apr. 13, 2009, 06:17 PM
quote=gooselover;4020259]Oh gosh, of course I would expect more, however this is a very complicated situation.

While these things go on behind your back, this trainer would be the first to help you out with extras also with no charge. it's just a very very difficult situation. This trainer would also be the first, if someone was down and out, to help someone out with the past due board....so you can see that there are alot of pro's and con's.....alot!

I think the thing that bothers me the most is the fact that they can and have used your horse behind your back for other things. As an example, years and years ago, I put my horse in training with this person for trailering issues. My boarder friends come to me and said, here is what is going on with your horse - one of the trainers/BO own kids had been wanting to do jumpers, there was no horse in the barn that would jump like mine, so the trainer uses my horse to teach her teenager! I was FURIOUS to say the least!
[/quote]


Hey, the lousy feed, using the horse behind your back and charging you for things you did not need, want or authorize would be deal breakers that would send me out the gate before I ever needed to find out she was nice when you got behind.

My dear, it's only a complicated situation because you tolerate it. The situation between you and your horse care/training Pro is supposed to be a hobby, and oasis to sooth you and a place where life is simple and most things pretty black and white. Not a train wreck like this.

You are better then this and deseve better then to let this person take advantage of you because you tolerate it in the name of friendship or the fear you cannot do any better.

Bullshit. Get out of there.

Queen Latisha
Apr. 13, 2009, 06:17 PM
I think the thing that bothers me the most is the fact that they can and have used your horse behind your back for other things. As an example, years and years ago, I put my horse in training with this person for trailering issues. My boarder friends come to me and said, here is what is going on with your horse - one of the trainers/BO own kids had been wanting to do jumpers, there was no horse in the barn that would jump like mine, so the trainer uses my horse to teach her teenager! I was FURIOUS to say the least!

Yet you still want to board with this person??
This story is starting to sound trollish.:yes:

findeight
Apr. 13, 2009, 06:21 PM
Yet you still want to board with this person??
This story is starting to sound trollish.:yes:

Don't think so. Poster is newish but has made sense in most posts...and no mention of draw reins, drugs or PV:lol:.

gooselover
Apr. 13, 2009, 06:32 PM
I assure you, I am not trolling. This is a real situation.

This person can and has trained horses extremely well....this person has also trained the rider and the forte' is putting them together for a winning team.

This person, away from the barn, has also been a personal friend of mine for years (except for the time we were "estranged").

Maybe my problem is that since moving to this state, I have never trained with anyone else and yet did so well under this person.

I do understand what everyone is saying, and I knew I would get slammed for being stupid because this whole thing sounds to be easy - just don't go to this barn! But it is much more complicated as stated.

I think my decision is to haul in to this trainer, not leave my horse there. I was only going to board for 1-2 months probably just to use the facility....

and maybe I could just try someone else.

I'm sorry for sounding so stupid, but this is very serious and real for me and a very emotional decision. I know it is very hard to understand and what I was searching for is IF anybody has been in this situation.

Also, this trainer was asked to be on the US Olympic Team years ago....he/she turned them down due to personal reasons not related to horses. Maybe now, you can understand how fantastic this person is with horse and rider.

fancyfooted
Apr. 13, 2009, 06:37 PM
How often do you go to the barn? Will you be there every night? Can you express very directly to this person that they are not to use your horse without your permission?

Say you are going to be out at the barn 5 night a week. In that case just buy your own feed, pre bag it, and feed it yourself. Leave two bags for the nights you're not out there, and only one bag at a time, left the night before your off night.

Pop in at random times to do "check ups" and make sure she's not riding your horse.

If she's your FRIEND as you say she is, she will respect your wishes and not use your horse.

Doesn't sound like much of a friend to me if she's so willing to screw over someone who so obviously likes and trusts her. (Yet doesn't really trust her, yes?)

findeight
Apr. 13, 2009, 06:49 PM
Also, this trainer was asked to be on the US Olympic Team years ago....he/she turned them down due to personal reasons not related to horses. Maybe now, you can understand how fantastic this person is with horse and rider.

I understand this person told you they were selected to be on the Olympic Team. I have heard the same from others and research did not support anything other then long listed or invited to compete in slection trials. Did this person actually turn down a firm invitation by the selection committee and do they have the International experience that leads you to believe they were invited to compete in a specific Olympic Games??? For the USA??

And, don't kid yourself, we have had some actual Olympians who are bona fide jerks and some that have financed themselves as individuals or gone to a second flag when their own country of citizenship turned them down. That really means just about nothing.

Certainly not anything to base this loyalty on.

And, no, we do not think you are stupid. At all. Merely insecure and not confident in our own ability to do better then this.

Try elsewhere, they'd love to have you.

TSWJB
Apr. 13, 2009, 06:58 PM
I

1. Lousy feed
2. Using your horse behind your back
3. Charging you for things you did not ask for or want at all

If you use your own feed, there is no price reduction and they will probably use it on THEIR horses and not yours.

.

this is no friend. a friend would not break your trust time and time again! they obviously know their feed is not good if they would use it on their own horses when you are buying if for your horse! that is sooo despicable! i would never do that to a friend.

Heineken
Apr. 13, 2009, 07:05 PM
I guess I'm not seeing the issue...I would NEVER put my horse in a situation like this. My horse is a better "friend" than this trainer.

ddashaq
Apr. 13, 2009, 07:09 PM
There is no way in hell my horse would live there. I agree with others that this is a no brainer, I guess there is more to it that we don't understand?

gooselover
Apr. 13, 2009, 07:11 PM
Yes, regarding being asked on the US Team (and yes from USA), this is a well known, DOCUMENTED, fact. Keep in mind, however, this was back in the early 60's. This has been documented in newspapers, etc. There is more to this and why it is a fact, but I don't want to go into detail for reasons that should be obvious. I do not want to mention any names, etc.

Thus, it is far more than this trainer "stating this".

joiedevie99
Apr. 13, 2009, 07:14 PM
Also, this trainer was asked to be on the US Olympic Team years ago....he/she turned them down due to personal reasons not related to horses. Maybe now, you can understand how fantastic this person is with horse and rider.

You sound starstruck. There are tons of top trainers out there, mine included, who run top of the line programs with good instruction, good horse management, good people skills, and reliable, trustworthy care. I am my horses' guardian- and no matter how many Olympic medals someone has won, I won't turn off my common sense to ride with them. In fact, I know quite a few I wouldn't trust worth a darn.

kristinq
Apr. 13, 2009, 07:18 PM
What's more important- your horse's welfare or your riding success?

War Admiral
Apr. 13, 2009, 07:23 PM
What KristinQ said.

Not a snowball's chance any horse of mine would be in this trainer's barn - end of.

Haul in if you must, but better off to find another trainer.

gooselover
Apr. 13, 2009, 07:24 PM
No, absolutely not star struck....just trying to have everyone understand that this person is really good at what they do - and it doesn't have anything to do with being asked on the team....I could care less....

And yes, my horse's welfare is way more important. I'm at that age where my riding success....well BTDT back in the 70's thru the 90's insofar as competitive showing, and I'm not going to compete like I did back when I was younger...but I would still like to continuing becoming a better rider in all aspects.

I know what I need to do....like I said, I was just wondering if anyone had been in my particular situation at all where it is more of a emotional/friendship decision. I agree, the answer should be simple....but in truth, it is way more complicated that that when you have been very very close friends both in and away from the barn for a number of years.

Sarabeth
Apr. 13, 2009, 07:35 PM
But this trainer has had alot of comings and goings and the reasons are:

1. Lousy feed
2. Using your horse behind your back
3. Charging you for things you did not ask for or want at all


Any one of these three would be a total deal breaker! Why would you want to do business with a person who cuts corners with horse care and is dishonest? It is definintely not worth a few ribbons.

eqrider1234
Apr. 13, 2009, 07:38 PM
For me the horse comes first and always will. I dont care enough about the ribbons to have my horse not properly taken care of or handeled. Honestly if she uses your horse without your permission what else is she possibly doing? If she is so good at training, trailer in for lessons as previously suggested and meet up at shows, and leave the horse care to yourself.

Hunter Mom
Apr. 13, 2009, 07:41 PM
It is your $$, your horses. Why would you spend the money if you don't KNOW your horses are going to be taken care of? Personally, I work way too hard to spend my money on less than great care for my horses.

I realize you're friends away from the barn, but they haven't been training you for some time. If there are other trainers in the area, I'd give them a try. If Nameless Trainer asks why, have a response ready - you wanted to try someone new. If you did ride with them as a "kid" and are now an adult, your needs have changed.

If you are dead set on training with NT, haul in. It wouldn't be worth the stress of wondering who is on your horse or what they're being fed against your wishes.

Riley0522
Apr. 13, 2009, 08:18 PM
I don't care if my mother put someone else on my horse without my approval, I would be pissed. I would absolutely, no way, no how, take my horse to a barn where they were feeding crap and using your horse without your approval and knowing about it.

gooselover
Apr. 13, 2009, 08:30 PM
I hear everyone....and you are all absolutely correct. Sometimes you just need to hear it from an outside source and/or a good slap across the face to wake me up....

and not see it from an emotional side.

Tini Sea Soldier
Apr. 13, 2009, 08:34 PM
I know nothing about this quasi-Olympic caliber trainer... so I have no comment on whether or not their training is worth this much distress...

HOWEVER, what I do know... and after having it happen to me personally... there is no worse of a feeling than to think that you have ruined your horse bc he has stopped jumping... and to question your ability and your horse's mindset... only to find out that they were crashed unknowingly behind your back.

In this current scenario that you pose... that situation could be you... on any given day.

And when they turn up lame after you haven't ridden in 3 days... who do you think is going to be left holding the bag? YOU. It's one thing to have a lame horse and foot the vet bills, bc you or your trainer or your trusted "guardian" was riding and something happened... it's another thing to have a "mystery ailment" that no one will offer any details about how it happened.

Not meaning to scare you or freak you out... but when you don't have control of the situation, and are aware that these things happen... you're playing with fire.

Ship in... and if the facilities are that lovely... inquire about paying a 'ring fee' and come over and hack once a week, as well as having a lesson.

jumpsnake
Apr. 13, 2009, 08:36 PM
Maybe you're better off just being friends with this person and not having a business relationship. If they are your friend, they should be able to understand that.

I don't go for any decisions made by the trainer that are not discussed with the owner prior to them occurring- and for me this goes for everything from another person riding the horse to getting its sheath cleaned! Its YOUR horse!

Bogie
Apr. 13, 2009, 08:38 PM
No dilemma. No way would I board my horse there no matter how good the training is.

If you love the trainer, ship in for lessons. Then get your horse safely out of there.

xabbracadabra
Apr. 13, 2009, 08:39 PM
No, absolutely not star struck....just trying to have everyone understand that this person is really good at what they do - and it doesn't have anything to do with being asked on the team....I could care less....

And yes, my horse's welfare is way more important. I'm at that age where my riding success....well BTDT back in the 70's thru the 90's insofar as competitive showing, and I'm not going to compete like I did back when I was younger...but I would still like to continuing becoming a better rider in all aspects.

I know what I need to do....like I said, I was just wondering if anyone had been in my particular situation at all where it is more of a emotional/friendship decision. I agree, the answer should be simple....but in truth, it is way more complicated that that when you have been very very close friends both in and away from the barn for a number of years.

Actually its not. If this person really was your friend you would not have to ride/board with them to be your friend. Saying you were estranged when you didn't have horses tells me this person is just acting as a friend in order to get your money. Go somewhere else

gooselover
Apr. 13, 2009, 08:58 PM
WELLLLL>>>>>>>>> you could have a point in the money situation, I would hate to think so though....

However, my husband has questioned this....

Maybe I need a good stiff WAKEUP call!

Jumper6252
Apr. 13, 2009, 09:02 PM
What's more important- your horse's welfare or your riding success?

Exactly! Why would you ever board somewhere, where before you even begin to board your horse you know your horse isn't going to be cared for well?

Beau Cheval
Apr. 13, 2009, 09:06 PM
Do not board there. Horse health comes first. Board elsewhere and see if trainer will come and train you at another facility. If she won't, well, some friend. Doesn't sound like much of a horse person. 99.9% of decent trainers feed horses correctly. A horse's program needs to be built from the ground up.
Safe facility->quality feed and shoeing->good daily care-->good training. That is the recipe for success when it comes to horses.

LegalEagle
Apr. 13, 2009, 09:21 PM
Aren't there some additives in cattle feed that can kill a horse?:confused:

Horseymama
Apr. 13, 2009, 09:31 PM
When I ride with a professional consistently I need to be able to respect them wholly as a professional. I couldn't ride with someone who believed in feeding their horses cattle feed. If I am going to seek the advice and help of a trainer/instructor I need to be able to come to them and say (for example): Do you think my horse is misbehaving because of the feed I have him on? I need to know that they are interested and versed in how to feed show horses. I need to be able to ask their advice and respect their answer, even if they have a different theory. But cattle feed? How do you respect that?

Same with using my horse behind my back. I couldn't respect a trainer's advice riding if I can't trust them to not use my horse without me knowing. If they don't have my best interests in mind in one way, they won't in another. I couldn't trust that the instruction they were giving me was truthful.

I have clients that are also friends. I wouldn't dream of treating them like this person has treated you.

cnvh
Apr. 13, 2009, 09:56 PM
I would even be able to work around the feed issue if every other aspect of the place was top-notch, but the using my horse behind my back? Absolutely, unequivocally NO WAY, no possible excuse or justification for that. To say that I would be livid would be an understatement. That's just mind-blowing...

gooselover
Apr. 13, 2009, 10:00 PM
I have talked to my husband again about this tonight....he, too, believes that the person may have been using us for the money...(we are not rich by all means!)....gosh that saddens me to think this.

Again, as a trainer, this person knows a heck of alot - about the horse and rider, and I will always have that respect for them.

And I know of several mutual friends (that I still speak to) that have left this barn because of problems such as this....and a couple of them have come back to the barn for lessons ONLY, never again to board.

It saddens my heart to think that what I thought was a close, personal and professional relationship may have been false all along. I'm usually a better judge of character. And as stated before, I have used this person for a number of years (about 10) Well, I take that back, I also trained under another person at another barn ( time offall out between us) but that trainer was close personal friends with the FIRST trainer and had worked out of the same barn for years....they, too, had a fall out

Hummm....lots and lots of fall outs.

One thing that always bothered me was how much this trainer talked about other people - I always wondered what was said about me...

I don't really want to know

suze
Apr. 13, 2009, 10:46 PM
And yes, my horse's welfare is way more important.

If your horse's welfare is more important, how can you even consider boarding there?

gooselover
Apr. 13, 2009, 10:55 PM
Just to make this perfectly clear, and maybe I did not, I do NOT need to board anywhere - we have our own place. I am talking about 1-2 months - that is ALL! Just enough to progress a tad farther and use the amenities - cross country, jumps, etc.,dressage ring , and then bring the horse home and work on what I have learned. I would NEVER leave my horse at that facility for an extended period of time - again, just for 1-2 months....and maybe down the road in another six to nine months, maybe another 1-2 months (from the prices of this place - probably one month!).

I should have made this clear form the beginning. I apologize.

However, this trainer is about 1hour from me (no, there is no one closer - all are about the same from me). Trailering in 1-2x a week may NOT be so cost effective.

Carol Ames
Apr. 13, 2009, 11:12 PM
I would definitely NOT board a horse where they feed cattlefeed [ it lacks vitamins and minerals horses need; and contains an ingredient which is DEADLY to horses, Rumensin:eek::no:

suze
Apr. 13, 2009, 11:21 PM
I would definitely NOT board a horse where they feed cattlefeed [ it lacks vitamins and minerals horses need; and contains an ingredient which is DEADLY to horses, Rumensin

Back in the early 70's, a trainer here in SoCal fed cattle feed to the horses because it was cheaper (and he was pretty cheap - we joked when he moved to a new property he took every piece of baling wire & chewed boards with him for the new facility) - both his & boarders. Fuzzy now after so many years, but I know a bunch died & a bunch got really sick, depending on how much they got as their ration. And I wouldn't care if it was for a day, a week or a month or two, I wouldn't leave my horse there and risk it. Especially if I knew the trainer was using the horse for lessons without permission & I could only get there a couple of times a week.

Carol Ames
Apr. 13, 2009, 11:29 PM
is person knows a heck of alot, but not about horse management:no::no:

Hopeful Hunter
Apr. 14, 2009, 12:50 AM
While these things go on behind your back, this trainer would be the first to help you out with extras also with no charge. it's just a very very difficult situation. This trainer would also be the first, if someone was down and out, to help someone out with the past due board....so you can see that there are alot of pro's and con's.....alot!

I think the thing that bothers me the most is the fact that they can and have used your horse behind your back for other things. As an example, years and years ago, I put my horse in training with this person for trailering issues. My boarder friends come to me and said, here is what is going on with your horse - one of the trainers/BO own kids had been wanting to do jumpers, there was no horse in the barn that would jump like mine, so the trainer uses my horse to teach her teenager! I was FURIOUS to say the least!


ummm...I'm not seeing the "pros" here.

It's nice that this trainer helps others....but it's apparently at the expense of others. And without their agreement.

Add in the lousy feed, etc, and I'm not seeing any upside. If you want ribbons that badly, buy them from Hodges. Don't put a living creature at risk for it IMO...

Boarding with this person would not be an option for me. Trailering in may be a PITA, but isn't your horse's health worth a bit of inconvenience?

Mach Two
Apr. 14, 2009, 01:10 AM
All the other glaring things aside.....
CATTLE FEED CONTAINS UREA and or RUMENSIN, to assist with RUMEN FUNCTIONS.Horses do not have a rumen. Cattle ruminate, horses digest.
Yes I'm yelling at you. This is poisionous...very very toxic to horses.
So now you know. If you leave your horses there, that's as good as administering poison.
All the other things are so wrong, on many levels, morally an otherwise, but killing your horses with cattle feed? Criminal!

LookinSouth
Apr. 14, 2009, 09:19 AM
And I don't care if the friend were George Morris, no way in hell would my horse being staying at a place with substandard care and a BO I couldn't trust. Wow.


Ditto!

If you must train with this person at all costs why not just get a truck and trailer and haul in for lessons? That way you can still get the wonderful training you feel you are recieving but you won't have to sacrifice the well being of your horse just for the training.

LookinSouth
Apr. 14, 2009, 09:20 AM
I'm not seeing any upside. If you want ribbons that badly, buy them from Hodges. Don't put a living creature at risk for it IMO...

Boarding with this person would not be an option for me. Trailering in may be a PITA, but isn't your horse's health worth a bit of inconvenience?


:yes::yes::yes: couldn't agree more!

LookinSouth
Apr. 14, 2009, 09:24 AM
However, this trainer is about 1hour from me (no, there is no one closer - all are about the same from me). Trailering in 1-2x a week may NOT be so cost effective.


I've trailered to trainers an hour away before once a week. It's doable if you want it to be.

I'd say it's a heck of alot more cost effective then say the vet bills from being poisioned....

willowoodstables
Apr. 14, 2009, 09:46 AM
Oh Gosh...

You are a Simpleton...why even ask such a stupid question when you spot garbage about caring about your horse, your own huband doubts your decisions, your so called friend/trainer the rock star who is the ONLY trainer to help you??? Oh Gosh, imagine you what poor horse who you have kept at your own barn and ridden on without training is going to say??

Oh gosh he's dead before you get your stupid ribbon

Oh gosh, my rock star trainer maybe using me for my pitance of money..CATTLE FEED??? what does the hay look like?? Shavings skimpy too??? Water buckets slimy from lack of cleaning???? Footing never harrowed or conditioned cause there is little money to run the tractors????


Trailiering your horse one hour is not cost effective, but feeding cattle feed is???? Get back to your cave you tard!!!

Oh and this so called rock star trainer feeds this crap to her world class Olympic caliber horses..some trainer...god people like you tick me off..no wonder the non-horse world thinks we are crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!


Oh and love your signature line you LIAR, cause your horse ain't so lucky to have you
Again..look in the mirror you Simpleton..

TSWJB
Apr. 14, 2009, 09:58 AM
I know what I need to do....like I said, I was just wondering if anyone had been in my particular situation at all where it is more of a emotional/friendship decision. I agree, the answer should be simple....but in truth, it is way more complicated that that when you have been very very close friends both in and away from the barn for a number of years.
i just dont get this???? how can you be very very very close with someone, actually even call them a friend when they would sc%rew you behind your back? stealing your good feed, using your horse without permission all classifies as untrustworthy. what is friendship, someone you can trust...... maybe you better get some evaluations on why you choose friends that would betray your trust........

sidepasser
Apr. 14, 2009, 10:09 AM
While I can understand the emotional "friendship" that you have with this person, here is my take on things having been a LONG time in the horse world:

1. You are letting your emotional side interfere with your rational side. Emotion says "this person is my friend, I like her, she's/he's taught me a lot, I could maybe "chance it" and your emotions have gotten into the "excuse" making vein. You keep coming back to your "long" friendship, but I bet if you broke it down, would it really be that long? Would it be years of no anxiety, no upsets, always happy to see her, know deep down in your heart that this person has your and your pony's best interests at heart? Friendship to me is knowing that I could leave my horse with my best friend and that friend would take BETTER or as GOOD AS care of my pony because that person truly had my/our best interests at heart.

If you can't answer yes to that question 100%..then..well you can figure that one out.

2. Rational side of things:
You know feeding cattle feed to a horse is wrong don't you? If not, I believe several here have pointed that out that it is poisonous to horses. Now there is "cattle feed" that is not treated..by that I mean like my grandpa used to feed to the cows (before folks figured out that cows need special feed too)..that was just cracked or whole corn, oats, some barley if available, etc. Just mixed in a tub and poured in a trough. Some days that feed might have middlings in it, oats, you pretty much name it. Now that isn't a very good diet for a horse either. So in either event: bad diet.

Then there's that matter of "she might use your horse". Is it rational to expect this person to not do that? Leave the emotion out of it. Think for a moment. She has done it in the past. Not just with yours, but with others. Is that fair? What if pony gets hurt? What if someone gets hurt riding your horse? Are you prepared to pay the vet bills or doctor bills? Pookie might be a saint, but even saints have bad days and trip once in a while. Not rational behavior if you think trainer will heed your request this time and not do the same again. Something about leopards and spots and all that.

Now rationally those two issues alone would make me say "mmm" don't think so.

Are you afraid if you run into this person on the street and she asks "whose your trainer" that she will be "hurt" if you say "Mr/Ms. X"? That is emotional..rational answer is "I've found someone that has a plan for me and my horse or whatever" and just let it go.

It's your pony and your money, but I would go back to "are your really friends?" I would say perhaps YOU thought so, but in my mind, trainer is looking out for trainer". Even if said trainer did "make you a great rider"..she did so because you PAID her to and even then, it appears she took advantage of you.

Is this the kind of "friend" you want in your life?

BTW - I have a trainer, he is my advisor when it comes to dressage, conditioning, etc. He is also reliable and many use him to manage their barns while they go on vacation, etc. I would trust him with my horses in any circumstance as he has their best interests at heart. Friends, yes on a professional level. Sometimes it is best not to intertwine "professional and business relationships with personal friendships". It's hard to separate the two. Emotion can be a very big dragon to slay.

willowoodstables
Apr. 14, 2009, 10:12 AM
Gosh I must be in a bad mood this morning...
I keep reading these responses that the OP gushes..Oh Gosh..and IT keeps defending a stupid trainer..and then spouts commendations on this rock stars ability and past accomplishments..Woop dee dooo..and then you have the balls to come on here and ask COTH??? What in the sam hill do you smoke???? Geesh


OH GOSH, definately a lack of oxygen while in the birth canal OH GOSH GOLLT GEE OH SUGAR.....again...STUPID STUPID STUPID..you and your rock star!

willowoodstables
Apr. 14, 2009, 10:16 AM
While I can understand the emotional "friendship" that you have with this person, here is my take on things having been a LONG time in the horse world:

1. You are letting your emotional side interfere with your rational side. Emotion says "this person is my friend, I like her, she's/he's taught me a lot, I could maybe "chance it" and your emotions have gotten into the "excuse" making vein. You keep coming back to your "long" friendship, but I bet if you broke it down, would it really be that long? Would it be years of no anxiety, no upsets, always happy to see her, know deep down in your heart that this person has your and your pony's best interests at heart? Friendship to me is knowing that I could leave my horse with my best friend and that friend would take BETTER or as GOOD AS care of my pony because that person truly had my/our best interests at heart.
l

And the sad part is the OP cannot even figure out what a friend is..wet noodle that they are! Cause in a previous post she stated her HUSBAND had concerns..emotions?? This twit chooses the "friend rock star trainer" over her husband..GET THE NET!

EqTrainer
Apr. 14, 2009, 10:33 AM
Oh gosh, of course I would expect more, however this is a very complicated situation.

While these things go on behind your back, this trainer would be the first to help you out with extras also with no charge. it's just a very very difficult situation. This trainer would also be the first, if someone was down and out, to help someone out with the past due board....so you can see that there are alot of pro's and con's.....alot!

I think the thing that bothers me the most is the fact that they can and have used your horse behind your back for other things. As an example, years and years ago, I put my horse in training with this person for trailering issues. My boarder friends come to me and said, here is what is going on with your horse - one of the trainers/BO own kids had been wanting to do jumpers, there was no horse in the barn that would jump like mine, so the trainer uses my horse to teach her teenager! I was FURIOUS to say the least!


Actually.. this is not a complicated situation at all. You are making it one.

Your "trainer" has allowed someone else to ride your horse without your permission. You know it.

How long will you wait until you decide nothing makes this justifiable? Until someday your horse is injured and no one can quite tell you what happened? Until he is crazy? Until... what?

In the unofficial book of rules, using someone elses horse for a lesson or letting someone else ride a clients horse is an absolute no-no unless explicit permission was given.

Just trailer in, take your lesson and go home w/your horse.

caffeinated
Apr. 14, 2009, 10:41 AM
Honestly, I wouldn't even ship in for lessons. I'd leave, and that would be that.

Reasoning? Because any money you put in the pocket of a person like this is supporting their unethical behavior.

There are other trainers out there, have you tried them? Maybe I'm unmotivated, but I don't care HOW good a trainer is at the riding/teaching stuff if they are that unethical, don't take good care of my horse, etc.

Being a Horseman is more important than being a Champion, IMO, and the Good Horseman puts the horse's welfare first.

gooselover
Apr. 14, 2009, 11:09 AM
Willowparkstables, while I respect your opinion, your harshness and cruelty were uncalled for. I asked a very honest question here and have alot of excellent replies that have made me open my eyes. I hesitated to even ask the question for fear of getting slammed and called stupid just as you did.

People come to this board for help, which I did...

There were alot of things I did NOT know where going on until AFTER I left. The fact that my horse was being used to teach someone jumpers was the last staw and I moved. I knew they were buying cheap feed, but did not know it was cattle feed until after the fact. Alot of my friends that had left before me told me so afterwards. I did not know if it was actually true or not, but I believed them as they were sensible, normal people. I was shocked to say the least.


To the others, again, thank you for opening my eyes. Yes, this was an emotional decision. And to the caring people on this board, you have made me realize a very hard decision - I felt there was a friendship there - at least on my side - but evidently I was being used for a paycheck and other things. It saddens me to come to this realization, but because of you all, I can see it now.

As I stated, I have never trained under anyone else and got so far. But after talking with my husband last night at great lengths, I realized alot of other things. Especially the fact that I want to take things slow,and this trainer seems to think/push to get you to a show - wherein I want to concentrate on becoming a better rider and just enjoying my horses.

Regarding the ribbons, I have enough of them, I do not care about the ribbons.

Willowparkstables, calling people names that come to this board for help with serious questions/dilemas is really not good. These questions/concerns are real for us, otherwise we would not ask for them. I was under the impression this board was for help - no matter how dumb and stupid you may think we are. And while people like you think we are moorons and twits as you state for asking what we do, your cruelty is again, uncalled for. I would never do that to anyone who came to me for help.

Coreene
Apr. 14, 2009, 11:09 AM
Sometimes we get threads where the OP wants an opinion, disagrees with what everyone says while waiting for just one person to take their side. Then latch onto that response, because tho they know in their hearts what they are proposing is wrong, well, so-and-so agreed , so it must be okay! Horse well being be damned! Aw gee, maybe the as trainer ain't so bad after all! :dead:

Coreene
Apr. 14, 2009, 11:16 AM
OP, sorry you didn't like what Willow said. But you kept posting responses that were justifying putting a horse with a trainer who feeds stuff that kills horses. And then you don't like being called names? Um, sorry, who is the bigger baddy? How Pot Meet Kettle can you get?

Bogie
Apr. 14, 2009, 11:29 AM
There were alot of things I did NOT know where going on until AFTER I left. The fact that my horse was being used to teach someone jumpers was the last staw and I moved. I knew they were buying cheap feed, but did not know it was cattle feed until after the fact. Alot of my friends that had left before me told me so afterwards. I did not know if it was actually true or not, but I believed them as they were sensible, normal people. I was shocked to say the least.

You made the right decision by leaving. Going back is beyond comprehension. I don't care if it's for a week. Putting your horse in a position where it's being fed incorrectly and potentially ridden by a variety of unauthorized riders? You don't think that *just* a month or two of this treatment is bad? Your horse could be ruined for jumping in an afternoon.

Don't be ridiculous.

Summit Springs Farm
Apr. 14, 2009, 11:40 AM
Olympic rider using cattle feed? That sounds fishy, are you sure? No Olympic rider I would think would use cattle feed for horses. I'd find out for sure before I believed that.
Its hard to find a good trainer, did you find out the circumstances to using your horse, did you get clarification etc. Sometimes there is a good reason someone else on your horse.
Maybe the trainer was trying to work on something he saw without you riding.
I don't know, but you could have been estranged for other reason than you'd didn't have a horse, like you both being pulled in different directions, I know I'm not as close to some of my non horsey friend as I was when I didn't have horses.
FWIW I follow my gut,

bascher
Apr. 14, 2009, 12:40 PM
I know nothing about this quasi-Olympic caliber trainer... so I have no comment on whether or not their training is worth this much distress...

HOWEVER, what I do know... and after having it happen to me personally... there is no worse of a feeling than to think that you have ruined your horse bc he has stopped jumping... and to question your ability and your horse's mindset... only to find out that they were crashed unknowingly behind your back.

In this current scenario that you pose... that situation could be you... on any given day.

And when they turn up lame after you haven't ridden in 3 days... who do you think is going to be left holding the bag? YOU. It's one thing to have a lame horse and foot the vet bills, bc you or your trainer or your trusted "guardian" was riding and something happened... it's another thing to have a "mystery ailment" that no one will offer any details about how it happened.



So true..quoted so it doesn't get forgotten :)

findeight
Apr. 14, 2009, 12:54 PM
goose...when you post things, you have to expect you will not agree with some answers you get and may even get upset.

But that does not change the basic advice here. Especially from those of us who have been around for 20 or 30...or 40+ years. There are hundreds of "almost Olympians" working as trainers-it's not a plus. Especially if it's their main claim to fame not supported by current record and record of clients.

There are actual Olympians out there that are...umm...questionable. Being on the team does not create an automatic endorsement as a trainer/instructor-that must be earned as a trainer/instructor.

Other actual Olympians and those that never even wanted to go and never jumped over 4' just trying to be good trainers, don't feed cow chow, don't use the client horses behind their backs, NEVER talk behind a client's back and don't run off clients and assistant trainers on a regular basis. People who leave with nothing good to say.

These things are at the very least yellow lights in the trainer/client relationship. And you got way too many yellow lights here. That's what turns on the red light for us.