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lightlee
Apr. 12, 2009, 09:38 PM
A took a short video of our horse. He will simply not canter. Is there something with him or his just lazy? Sorry for the poor quality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn6UMwyuVCk

vxf111
Apr. 12, 2009, 09:40 PM
Are you hitting him with the lunge whip? Is the horse even broke to free lunge? Why not try moving the saddle more up onto his shoulder. Or maybe on the neck if you can.

Thanks, I needed some shambolic today.

sublimequine
Apr. 12, 2009, 09:45 PM
Are you striking the horse with the lunge whip?!? :mad:

lightlee
Apr. 12, 2009, 09:49 PM
Yes - he will free lunge in a round pen - or least used to know how to. I thought the saddle was way too forward!

Horses can be very tiresome.

Fantastic
Apr. 12, 2009, 09:50 PM
The horse is fine. Looks like a hungry horse that wants some green grass, who is balky, and who is wearing a saddle on his neck. The handler/videographer doesn't know how to communicate with the horse how to lunge or free lunge.

Body language from the handler is the key to lunging and free lunging. Find someone who can teach you the nuances of lunging and free lunging. They do take proper body position, skill, and practice.

vxf111
Apr. 12, 2009, 09:50 PM
I think the well meaning but seemingly uninformed lunger is the root of this horse's issue. Check out the pony club D manual for some good lunging and tack fitting basics and perhaps get the input of someone knowledgeable.

Which is my nice way of saying "this horse has an idiot problem."

lightlee
Apr. 12, 2009, 09:51 PM
Yes I touched him a couple of times with it. I was not stricking him though. For the most part he ignores it.

Evalee Hunter
Apr. 12, 2009, 09:52 PM
I am going to assume this is a serious, actual question, although maybe it's just an effort to start a train wreck.

As Veronica pointed out the saddle is waaaay to far forward, which may be interfering with his shoulder blades & hurting him.

Also, he needs to be set up to work - that means wearing a bridle, probably with the reins back over the middle of the saddle & under the stirrups. There does not need to be pressure on the reins (not tight at all) but he does need to keep his head up & stop eating.

I'm not sure how big the pen is, but if it's bigger than a round pen (60' circle) you need two people to free lunge. You should NOT hit him - shake the whip or maybe snap/pop it but don't hit him.

He did canter for a few strides several times.

Proud To Be Spotted
Apr. 12, 2009, 09:54 PM
Horses can be very tiresome.

Time to trade it in for a atv. An atv will go anytime you want it to.

lightlee
Apr. 12, 2009, 09:54 PM
Ok I know I need to learn the technique of lunging - however - I challenge anyone to lunge and video at the same time. It is hard!!!

mustangtrailrider
Apr. 12, 2009, 09:57 PM
That was the most absurd video I have ever seen.....what is that all about......:no::no::no::no:

Sithly
Apr. 12, 2009, 09:59 PM
Keep that up and you're going to get kicked.

lightlee
Apr. 12, 2009, 09:59 PM
Oooh an ATV - now theres an idea!! No feeding -- no board bill - no vet bill.

I thought the saddle was way too forward - I ride Western so I not familar with the nuances of fitting an English saddle. Please bear with me.::sadsmile:

vxf111
Apr. 12, 2009, 10:01 PM
If you try a bear in the round pen with you, I pretty much guarantee the horse will trot and canter.

lightlee
Apr. 12, 2009, 10:03 PM
Does his right rear leg look OK?

olympicprincess
Apr. 12, 2009, 10:05 PM
From what I saw (not on straight line, irregular tempo, etc all makes it hard to give a definite answer), I think the horse is fine- he just would rather stop and eat some grass.:lol:

Why do you need to lunge this horse? He seems calm enough.

I actually think until you learn to longe properly that it's better to NOT have a bit in the horse's mouth.
If you let the lungeline drop, or the horse puts his head down- stepping on the reins/line can really hurt the horse.

You're not hitting him hard enough to hurt, so I wouldn't worry about that. Actually, I'd be cracking the whip and then if horsey doesn't give you a forward response, he'd get a good whack from me.

Androcles
Apr. 12, 2009, 10:10 PM
Horses can be very tiresome.
As can some posters.

Thanks for the funny video. what's with all the clicking and clucking?

gloriginger
Apr. 12, 2009, 10:12 PM
somethings NQR with the right front leg...but it very well could be the saddle.

Honestly, I see a horse that is giving a half a$$ response to a half a$$ question. And I think if youhit him again with the whip he is going to turn his hid end and kick you- he already started to once-and it clearly does bother him.

olympicprincess
Apr. 12, 2009, 10:12 PM
Is this the same horse in your other videos? I notice that you have "Bama Jog" in one.

90% of western pleasure horses look lame to me, so I'm no help there! ;)

Renae
Apr. 12, 2009, 10:13 PM
Put a lunge line on the horse and don't let it stop and eat to start with.

Tiffani B
Apr. 12, 2009, 10:16 PM
You are waiting WAY too long to remind him to move forward. You don't wait until the horse is stopped, you remind when his body language says "I'm about to slow down/stop and eat." Allowing him to stop for even ONE BITE is rewarding and reinforcing his behavior.

And this is a kick to the head waiting to happen. I know you were taping and that probably makes this a bit harder to do correctly, but you should never stand behind the horse when lunging, especially if you're making contact with the whip. You stand with their hip, the lunge whip BEHIND them and your body language opening the door for them to go forward.

See if you can find someone who is good at lunging to take a crack at it and show you how to time your corrections and keep the horse moving forward.

BoyleHeightsKid
Apr. 12, 2009, 10:16 PM
I thought the saddle was way too forward - I ride Western so I not familar with the nuances of fitting an English saddle. Please bear with me.::sadsmile:

There's your problem... western pleasure horses aren't normally "forward" :winkgrin:

Seriously...there's nothing wrong with the horse. All he's doing is flipping you the bird because you don't know what you're doing. Get some professional help or help from a knowledgeable friend and learn how to lunge before you get kicked in the head. There's much more to lungeing than chasing the horse around the round pen or letting them just go around on a lunge line. ;) I'm not trying to be harsh, so please don't take it that way.

Here's some good reading to get you started http://www.classicaldressage.co.uk/html/lungeing.html

mrsbradbury
Apr. 13, 2009, 12:56 PM
Does his right rear leg look OK?


I agree with you. Aside from lack of horsemanship, I definitely question this horse's soundness.

Penthilisea
Apr. 13, 2009, 01:45 PM
Step 1: Tack up the horse, including the bridle and reins, fitted properly. The saddle as shown is too far forward on the horse. The lunge line should attatch to the outside bit ring, run over the poll, and through the inside bit ring. Obviously when you change directions you need to swap this connection.

Step 2. Find an enclosed area AND a lunge line, apply to horse.

Step 3: Give your horse CLEAR verbal cues (not clucking, WORDS) and back it up with a snap in the AIR of the lunge whip. I like "waaaaaak", "Teeeerot!" and "Caaan-ter!" Use the lunge whip pointed at (but not touching! ) the horses inside hip to keep him moving, let it fall to the ground when you want him to slow down.

Step 4: Have someone ELSE video the horse, on a straight line at the walk on a lead line and trot both towards and away from the camera.

Step 5: Breathe. The horse is in fine weight and looks a bit sassy because you are letting him be a bit bratty. It happens. I'd rather have a lazy horse who wants to stop and eat then one who rips around like a crazy beast. It can be hard to transition between disciplines or learn new skills online.

Good luck!
(P.S. Shame on you folks who were rude to someone with 80 posts looking for info. I am all for running off trolls but I know a lady the next road over just like this, she was given a warmblood to replace her QH as a trail mount. Obivously there was a long adjustment period.)

webmistress32
Apr. 13, 2009, 02:09 PM
Pony Club D Manual.

Study it. Learn it. Live it.

tpup
Apr. 13, 2009, 02:32 PM
He's flipping you the bird - he just wants to eat and he doesn't want to work. Saddle is up way too far which you already heard. Cute horse but he has your number and every time you let him stop to eat, he wins! I wouldn't free lunge him unless you had good control on a lunge line.

lightlee
Apr. 13, 2009, 06:49 PM
Thanks all - I appreciate the suggestions - and I will seek lunging him properly. Do you think he has any soundness issues?

irishcas
Apr. 13, 2009, 08:00 PM
Thanks all - I appreciate the suggestions - and I will seek lunging him properly. Do you think he has any soundness issues?

Please, before deciding to "Longe" him properly, LEARN:

1. How to tack up a horse. I don't give a rats behind if it's English or Western, learn what putting a tree on the Scapula does

2. How to Longe before attaching a horse to you, via free or an actually line.

3. How to tack up a horse - needed repeating :rolleyes:

This fits in to my rants that animals need human licensing.

Has Fugly seen this? I'd love to hear her rant.

Kim
NAF, AHA Member

Penthilisea
Apr. 13, 2009, 08:09 PM
This isn't rant worthy IMO. I do not see any OVERT lameness issues, but it is VERY hard to tell from this video. Just seems like a lazy horse. WHat state are you in Lightlee? If you are anywhere near NJ I or a friend could probably come check your guy out and give you a brief lunging lesson.

I'm out of work right now, so a wee bit too much free time on my hands!

pony89
Apr. 13, 2009, 08:23 PM
This fits in to my rants that animals need human licensing.

Has Fugly seen this? I'd love to hear her rant.


I had a problem and a pile of pictures and videos that should have gotten my license revoked. Fortunately, several posters gave me the blunt and harsh reality that I needed some experienced help, and managed to do so without mocking me or insinuating that I didn't deserve to own a horse. In doing so, they actually inspired me to get the help I needed, much to my horse's delight. The above quote would not have had the same effect.

Lots of people have mentioned that the saddle is misplaced. If you are worried about his soundness, have someone video while you lunge or trot him in a line without the saddle. Then you will know for sure that he is not acting lame because the saddle is interfering. I also like the pony club manuals for a good review of all of the basics.

I am not the best soundness evaluator, but I do find it nearly impossible to check for soundness unless the horse is moving a bit more steadily and forward. If you can find someone to video while you jog him, or even video him out in the pasture where he is moving out a little better, you will have a better shot of evaluating this.

If my horse isn't cooperating while I free lunge her, I put her back on the lunge line. There's no point in letting them bomb around doing their own thing and totally ignoring you! It looks like you might be helped by finding someone experienced to help you learn to lunge more effectively. I'm sure it is extremely difficult to lunge while videoing, but it looks like there are some body language/technique issues, and also like the horse may not know how to lunge correctly or totally doesn't respect what you are asking him to do (move forward and stay in the requested gait.) It can be a helpful training tool, but not if you allow the horse to be sloppy and half hearted like that. And at his rate, he's not even burning any energy, so there really isn't too much point!:lol: If your main goal was to evaluate soundness, you really need a second set of hands and to take that saddle right off.

tkhawk
Apr. 13, 2009, 08:38 PM
I don't know about his soundness-but he is a very tolerant and nice horse!

Nikki17
Apr. 13, 2009, 08:46 PM
This is a joke right?

Chall
Apr. 13, 2009, 09:08 PM
Longeing (dang spelling?) is a skill.

Here are the things my trainer had to teach me:
-how to snap a whip ( I practiced at home)
-How to use a cavesson and which rings to attach the line to
-Using a surcingle and which rings to use with the elastic side reins
-how to hold the rope (folded IN my hand, not wrapped around it).
-How to keep tension between in the rope so my horse didn't trip on it
-how to keep the excess line from wrapping around my feet
-positioning myself about at his hindquarters all the time
-how to circle without tripping (me)
-not attaching the reins for the first 10 minutes
-keeping the horse on the circle (not turning in) when asked for halt
- the commands, trot, walk-on, whoa and canter

It is not easy, I did need help and I pretty much fail at the turning in, because I'm not the dominant one.
So, its not easy and YES people really do need to be taught by someone who knows what they are doing. Long-lineing is whole 'nother deal.

Ajierene
Apr. 13, 2009, 09:24 PM
Longeing (dang spelling?) is a skill.

Here are the things my trainer had to teach me:
-how to snap a whip ( I practiced at home)
Good thing to know! I am still bad at it!



-How to use a cavesson and which rings to attach the line to
-Using a surcingle and which rings to use with the elastic side reins

Never necessary in lunging. I am not saying it is not useful, just no necessary



-how to hold the rope (folded IN my hand, not wrapped around it).
-How to keep tension between in the rope so my horse didn't trip on it
-how to keep the excess line from wrapping around my feet

Not necessary when in a round pen and free lunging.



-positioning myself about at his hindquarters all the time

Very good point. Along with looking at their body, not their head (don't focus on the head or eyes, especially).



-how to circle without tripping (me)
-not attaching the reins for the first 10 minutes
reins never need to be attached for lunging. Amazingly enough, horses can be lunged with absolutely nothing on and would probably be the best idea for assess lameness.




-keeping the horse on the circle (not turning in) when asked for halt
- the commands, trot, walk-on, whoa and canter
Also great things to learn and to teach the horse. Everyone is different. I knew a trainer that always said TEE-ROT, instead of trot and told me I should do the same, but I could never get into that. So, I say 'trot' with an extra emphasis on the 't' (where I am from, we like to drop consonants).

I would suggest getting him to stop grazing so much - as soon as he starts putting his head down, ask him to move forward more. He looks like he may be a bit short in front, but that could just be him being lazy and jogging. Western Pleasure horses sometimes have spent so much of their training jogging that they initially get confused when asked to move forward more.

A friend of mine told an amusing story about taking her champion Western Pleasure horse into an English class. He couldn't figure out how to 'trot', would either jog or lope when she gave more leg - she couldn't be mad at him, she never 'explained' the 'trot' to him...just laughed it off.

Chall
Apr. 13, 2009, 09:32 PM
I agree what I said does not apply to assessing soundness.
My horse was being lunged to teach him carriage (ewe neck) so the side reins were used. If your goal is exercising then no, no reins are needed. But using a line did teach him discipline, when let out for a run in the arena he repeated everything he learned on the line, including the reverse direction (all by himself).:lol:

ImJumpin
Apr. 13, 2009, 09:58 PM
Agree with others-- find someone who knows what he/she is doing and get a lesson. You can use clucks and kisses instead of words-- but the key is a cluck means trot and a kiss means canter. You can't cluck just to go forward and trot and canter. Having no distinction of what you are asking the horse will also be just as clueless.

Woodland
Apr. 13, 2009, 11:40 PM
A took a short video of our horse. He will simply not canter. Is there something with him or his just lazy? Sorry for the poor quality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn6UMwyuVCk


You need to kick his BUTT! He could not care that you are asking him to do anything - he just wants to eat. I especially dislike when he tries to take a poke at you - grrrrr! I suggest tag teaming him. Get a buddy or two and when everyone is in the round pen with lunge whips drive him on! Sanely without abuse - just push him on.

Alagirl
Apr. 13, 2009, 11:48 PM
Put a lunge line on the horse and don't let it stop and eat to start with.


Ditto on that. make me gringe every time I see this stuff.

You can't do both, filming and lounging. Or filming and whatever. if you are alone, get a tripod. Cheap solution to not enough hands.

Equip the horse for work and I bet he'll work. To me halter scream turn out and play.

irishcas
Apr. 14, 2009, 06:44 AM
You need to kick his BUTT! He could not care that you are asking him to do anything - he just wants to eat. I especially dislike when he tries to take a poke at you - grrrrr! I suggest tag teaming him. Get a buddy or two and when everyone is in the round pen with lunge whips drive him on! Sanely without abuse - just push him on.

Why oh WHY in the world would you suggest to an obvious Novice to Kick her horses BUTT??? She can't even Longe him and you want her to punish him for her lack of skill? :mad:

It is YOUR job to have clarity in all that you do with your horse. If you can't ask, how can he "do"?

God almighty, poor horses.

Kim Cassidy
NAF, AHA member

lightlee
Apr. 14, 2009, 07:14 AM
My intent of posting this video was more of a soundness evaulation rather than to critique my lunging skills (or rather lack of!). It was just a quick video. Anyway lunging is very hard to do when you are taping at the same time.

Queen Latisha
Apr. 14, 2009, 08:07 AM
Does he canter with a rider on his back?:cool:

twofatponies
Apr. 14, 2009, 08:34 AM
My intent of posting this video was more of a soundness evaulation rather than to critique my lunging skills (or rather lack of!). It was just a quick video. Anyway lunging is very hard to do when you are taping at the same time.

An easier way to evaluate lameness is to set up the camera on a tripod (or set it on a tree stump, wall, chair etc.) and trot the horse in hand (halter and lead rope) back and forth and towards and away from the camera on a flat surface. Then he's moving steadily, and the viewers can see his legs from all sides.

BoyleHeightsKid
Apr. 14, 2009, 10:39 AM
An even better way to assess lameness is to have to vet out, but IMO there's no way to see a soundness issue from the video posted.

Tiffani B
Apr. 14, 2009, 12:00 PM
My intent of posting this video was more of a soundness evaulation rather than to critique my lunging skills (or rather lack of!). It was just a quick video. Anyway lunging is very hard to do when you are taping at the same time.

You should have said that in your first post. Otherwise you leave it open to US to diagnose why your horse isn't trotting or cantering. And the most obvious answer is, you don't know how to lunge a horse.

It's impossible to see anything about the horses' possible soundness from that video.

Larbear
Apr. 14, 2009, 12:14 PM
You should have said that in your first post. Otherwise you leave it open to US to diagnose why your horse isn't trotting or cantering. And the most obvious answer is, you don't know how to lunge a horse.

It's impossible to see anything about the horses' possible soundness from that video.

The OP stated "A took a short video of our horse. He will simply not canter. Is there something with him or his just lazy? Sorry for the poor quality."

I took it to mean a soundness question...you could tell from the video that the OP was filming and lunging at the same time. It is difficult to do both at the same time, if the horse has a tendancy to blow you off, it becomes even more difficult. Unless there is something about the OP that I don't know about that you guys do, I'm not sure why everyone is being on the nasty side.

To the OP: from the video, it's really hard to tell...see if you can get someone to lunge the horse and you film...it would be more conclusive :)

Tiffani B
Apr. 14, 2009, 12:19 PM
"Is there something with him or is he just lazy" is not a request for a soundness evaluation.

Regardless, the video is not helpful whatsoever for diagnosing soundness.

Nor is the lunging skill (or lack thereof).

"something with him?" Yes. He's got your number and dials it often.

"just lazy?" possibly. Or smart.

"unsound/sore?" possibly, can't tell.

Mtn trails
Apr. 14, 2009, 06:41 PM
Sorry, I may be a little more assertive than some but if a horse took a poke at me like the OP's horse did, he would sure as s&*^ feel the sting of that whip on his hiney. Take a poke at me and I'm taking a poke at you.

2enduraceriders
Apr. 14, 2009, 07:22 PM
Sorry, I may be a little more assertive than some but if a horse took a poke at me like the OP's horse did, he would sure as s&*^ feel the sting of that whip on his hiney. Take a poke at me and I'm taking a poke at you.

I agree!

Also when the thread title reads "will not trot or canter" and almost the whole video shows a horse lazily trotting ignoring the handler what else is there to comment on other then the poor lunging of the handler?

Mach Two
Apr. 14, 2009, 07:58 PM
A lot of obvious things have been stated, Your saddle is up on his scapula, and interfering with his shoulder. The front edge of the forward part of the point of the tree (not the flap, the tree) needs to be 1 1/2 inches behind the scapula.
You are training that horse to ignore you, and it's hard to say how he moves when lounging, because in the video that isn't happening...he has been put in the round pen to graze. Clucking endlessly teaches him to ignore that voice command, too. My rule is one cluck, move briskly FORWARD. Shoosh or move your position and signal with the lounge whip,,,and make it happen. No more clucking. Keep that consistant...If you said "whoa" an the horse did not stop or attempt to stop, would you keep saying whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa? Heck no, because it needs to mean something. Same thing with a cluck, a kiss, any signal you use, ONE sound, then reinforce.
Lounging means you put a lounge line on, I detest putting one on a halter, but in this case, that would be better than hitting him in the mouth.
Get some help. And another thing, you need some loose sidereins onthere, to act as anti-grazing reins, if nothing else. I'll ask the same question...is the horse "sound" under saddle?

Am I mean? Yep. Beeetch from hell, when I see a probably good natured horse being untrained like that.

MissKatie
Apr. 16, 2009, 04:18 PM
^It sounds like you are proud of being "mean"
It is a shame people get there claws out so quickly when someone asks for adivce. You have to be very, very careful on this board what you ask. It's almost like people go looking to attack.