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Samotis
Apr. 11, 2009, 02:21 AM
I was just curious what the program is for four year olds nominated to the futurity.

The young jumper website is all screwy as is the IJF and it doesn't give any current information.

What shows offer jumper stuff for the nominated 4 year olds?

How high is it and what are they asked to do?

I have a colt that is nominated to the hunter futurity. I thought on the chance he may be better suited to be a jumper type that I could show him in the young jumper stuff.

I am just curious when and where these classes are held

horserider12
Apr. 11, 2009, 05:37 PM
The jumps are about 3'3" at the finals. Most of the professionals only do about 3 or 4 shows with their horses in the 4 year old year, they really shouldn't be jumping much at that age.

mvp
Apr. 11, 2009, 08:14 PM
If you plan to keep your colt for the length of his career, I wouldn't show him in a futurity, let alone a jumper one.

You would be cutting physical and mental corners that may come to bite you BAD later... or not so later.

JMHO.... but X-ray his knees when he's just 3 and see if they are closed enough for a year of work. Also, look up past futurity winners. If these horses are going strong in their teens, then I'm wrong. If they seem to have disappeared by then, pay attention.

Samotis
Apr. 12, 2009, 06:00 PM
I know as a 4 year old it is mostly flat and gymnastics? That is what I have heard.

I don't need the lecture that it is too young and blah blah. I get it. If I feel he can do it he will, if not then he won't. My decision period.

I am asking what shows offer these classes, what the classes are like and if there are classes on the west coast for the 4 year olds.

The website is all over the place and there is no updated information.

My colts stallion has numerous young horse showing and winning in these classes in the mid-west, so I am just curious what they are all about and where they are held at!

Lucassb
Apr. 12, 2009, 06:31 PM
IIRC, the four year old futurity is only open to IJF nominated horses - they will automatically send you an entry form a few months prior (there are three total shows for the 4 year olds.)

From this year's program info:

2009 International Jumper Futurity
Program Guidelines

Three competitions will be held each year. Every IJF nominated 4 year old horse is eligible for entry in one competition. Each event will be held in conjunction with a major jumper show. Every effort will be made to schedule the IJF competitions to assure the greatest possible exposure for these horses.

Every IJF nominated horse will also be eligible to compete in all Young Jumper Championship competitions with no additional nomination fees required.

Competition Entries and Drug Testing
IJF entry forms will be mailed to all 4 year old owners approximately 2 months prior to the competitions. All entrants must contact the horse show hosting the IJF event for stabling and drug forms prior to the show's closing dates. The IJF may conduct drug testing for forbidden substances in conjunction with, or in accordance to USEF testing.
Four Year Old Program-open only to IJF Nominated 4 year olds.
• To be eligible to compete, 4 year olds must never have entered or competed in any jumper event with fences exceeding 3'9" in height.
• A horse's participation in hunter events will not effect his/her eligibility.
• Each horse entered in this year’s competition who completes both rounds will receive $1000. Trophies and additional prize money will be given for three categories. Breeders awards of $200 will be given to each stallion nominator.
The original young horse nominators will receive $100.
• Participating in the IJF events will not, in itself, jeopardize a horse's First Year Green eligibility.

FWIW, my current horse did some of the young jumper stuff as a 5 year old. He is now 11 and has never had any "ill effects" from doing so.

Samotis
Apr. 12, 2009, 06:36 PM
Thank you.

that was what I was wondering. So it sounds like they have a east, midwest and west coast show for the 4 year olds each year.

I also have read that they have 3 or 4 categories they can win under in the 4 year olds. Like most potential, best attitude, most consistent? Something like that.

jr
Apr. 12, 2009, 06:47 PM
Getting a young horse ready for the jumper futurity does not necessarily require a lot of wear and tear. I wouldn't dismiss this option out of hand for a young horse. If you have efficient, competent preparation with a professional or talented amateur, it can work just fine. I've seen multiple IJF horses prepared without a lot of time or too much work on young joints. If you have one that's not coming along, you don't do it. But many progress just fine with light, focused work. Done correctly, it can be a very positive experience and put the horse in a good spot for entering more serious work and the young jumper classes as 5 year olds.

KristieBee
Apr. 12, 2009, 11:14 PM
Getting a young horse ready for the jumper futurity does not necessarily require a lot of wear and tear. I wouldn't dismiss this option out of hand for a young horse. If you have efficient, competent preparation with a professional or talented amateur, it can work just fine. I've seen multiple IJF horses prepared without a lot of time or too much work on young joints. If you have one that's not coming along, you don't do it. But many progress just fine with light, focused work. Done correctly, it can be a very positive experience and put the horse in a good spot for entering more serious work and the young jumper classes as 5 year olds.

define 'many progress just fine' - does that mean they don't fritz out and go lame immediately? i'm not trying to pick a fight, i am just always intrigued by people saying 'you see how they do' - because how they will do is remain sound - until the day they don't. and i can't imagine that starting at four doesn't speed up that inevitable process.

Samotis
Apr. 12, 2009, 11:26 PM
she probably means mentality wise. Some young horses are slower to learn and develop. Those are the types that get stressed and don't do well with work at an early age.

Some four year old progress easily into flat and light jumping and are able to compete a little. Some don't.

Does anyone know the actual courses/tests they ask at the 3 4 yr old shows?

Lucassb
Apr. 13, 2009, 10:58 AM
define 'many progress just fine' - does that mean they don't fritz out and go lame immediately? i'm not trying to pick a fight, i am just always intrigued by people saying 'you see how they do' - because how they will do is remain sound - until the day they don't. and i can't imagine that starting at four doesn't speed up that inevitable process.

Properly managed horses don't "inevitably" go lame.

Show jumpers are athletes and like any athletes, they can suffer injuries and illnesses. However, with a proper conditioning and training program, there is a lot that can be done to prevent problems with appropriate work and management.

A strong, fit horse is much less likely to break down in regular work; look at the european programs as an example. Their horses are routinely worked twice a day, and they are kept in terrific physical condition. Compare that to the horse owned by the typical "weekend warrior" that pulls the horse out of the pasture once a week on Saturday for a hard ride - basically asking for an injury.

I generally start my horses late in their three year old year, after the vet has evaluated them and determined that they are ready to go to work (knees closed, etc.) They do light flat work to start out and begin learning their jobs. They are normally jumping around simple 3' courses in their four year old year. I have yet to have one that has had a problem with this approach, and the oldest is over 20 now. They are carefully managed and have plenty of downtime interspersed in their schedules, but they all work for a living and have a good solid work ethic installed early.

Everyone has to make their own decisions about what is best for their individual animals, but to suggest that the Futurity program is some kind of passport to early unsoundness makes no sense to me. YMMV.

findeight
Apr. 13, 2009, 11:35 AM
Sorry, but "some can, some can't" is the best anwer and there is no set in stone formula for colts or horses at any age.

BTW, the Europeans routinely evaluate youngsters over very simple courses up to around 4' before deciding whether to export them or keep them to compete in the home country. Does not seem to hurt most of them. At all.

Pounding is what hurts them and influences future soundness and qualified trainers know how to get the job done without pounding them or frying their brains. Young and in light work does not automatically equal pounding.

KristieBee
Apr. 13, 2009, 12:16 PM
Properly managed horses don't "inevitably" go lame.

Show jumpers are athletes and like any athletes, they can suffer injuries and illnesses. However, with a proper conditioning and training program, there is a lot that can be done to prevent problems with appropriate work and management.

A strong, fit horse is much less likely to break down in regular work; look at the european programs as an example. Their horses are routinely worked twice a day, and they are kept in terrific physical condition. Compare that to the horse owned by the typical "weekend warrior" that pulls the horse out of the pasture once a week on Saturday for a hard ride - basically asking for an injury.

I generally start my horses late in their three year old year, after the vet has evaluated them and determined that they are ready to go to work (knees closed, etc.) They do light flat work to start out and begin learning their jobs. They are normally jumping around simple 3' courses in their four year old year. I have yet to have one that has had a problem with this approach, and the oldest is over 20 now. They are carefully managed and have plenty of downtime interspersed in their schedules, but they all work for a living and have a good solid work ethic installed early.

Everyone has to make their own decisions about what is best for their individual animals, but to suggest that the Futurity program is some kind of passport to early unsoundness makes no sense to me. YMMV.

again, not baiting or looking for a fight, genuinely curious, because i'm probably overly cautious but because i plan to own my imported german warmblood (got him at five years old from germany) for his entire lifetime, i'm perhaps unduly preoccupied with keeping him sound. i want to be able to look him in the eye at 30 years old god willing and know i did my best by him.

so the 20 year old of which you speak...or any of your horses that you've had for their entire careers...do they get hock injections? and when did they start needing them? because when i say 'go lame' that's part of what i consider going lame - needing injections at an early age to keep going soundly. a mare at my old trainers who needed hock injections at the age of 6 comes to mind. i found that preposterous. and yet people shrugged it off as a natural consequence of being an athlete! again call me conservative but these are the things i wish to avoid if possible.

thanks very much and please know i'm trying to learn more, not be an instigator.

findeight
Apr. 13, 2009, 12:23 PM
Maintaining joints and keeping a 20 year old comfortable after 15 years of giving everything they have in the competition arena is not treating a lame horse in an animal designed for about a mid 20s life span. You may hear of alot of them living longer but the fact is they are senior, physically, at about 20 and the majority do not make it much past that point. Those famous names that do continue to compete at upper levels have a retinue of health care pros in their camp-and, yeah, they get some help with the old joints.

I hate to tell you this but you can circle them in bubble wrap and wait until they are 10 to try a lead change and still have the joints start to wear in mid teens. Or have them get a suspensory rolling in a field. Plus, you still will be lucky if it hits 30 and is useable much past 20.

JRHunter2006
Apr. 13, 2009, 12:25 PM
Each horse entered in this year’s competition who completes both rounds will receive $1000.

Is this if you horse just gets around the course in both rounds, or if they go clear in both rounds? I'm thinking of taking my 4 year old to the Midwest competition if he is ready by then (at Traders Point in August), and I'm not too sure how it all works either.

I wish the IJF website would update and give out some more information on the program!

PNWjumper
Apr. 13, 2009, 02:06 PM
so the 20 year old of which you speak...or any of your horses that you've had for their entire careers...do they get hock injections? and when did they start needing them? because when i say 'go lame' that's part of what i consider going lame - needing injections at an early age to keep going soundly. a mare at my old trainers who needed hock injections at the age of 6 comes to mind. i found that preposterous. and yet people shrugged it off as a natural consequence of being an athlete! again call me conservative but these are the things i wish to avoid if possible. .

"Needing" hock injections is often as much about general horse management and barn/trainer perspective as anything else. Some trainers (and vets) just don't know what else to do when a horse isn't quite right. As my vet is fond of saying, hock injections are a great tool, but if you don't know what's causing the symptoms and don't fix the underlying issue you're not going to be doing the horse any service with injections.

I had a gelding I took to a BNB as an 8 year old (big name barn, big name shoer, relatively big name trainer). We were showing at 4'3" and getting ready to move up to 4'6". After about 9 months he started showing this really non-specific lameness that 5 vets at the very big name vet clinic in the area couldn't figure out through thousands of dollars of diagnosis procedures. Finally came down to 3 vets and the trainer telling me "it was just time to start injecting the hocks." That was the mentality for any horse above the age of six with lameness issues that couldn't be sorted out by the tools they used.

My old shoer took one look at the horse and said, "it's the shoes." Between correcting the shoes and getting body work done on the horse he never needed an injection of any sort to keep him sound. At the age of 16 he's still jumping around 3'6" courses (and could be doing much higher if his rider was interested) with no lameness problems. And FWIW, I started jumping him as an early 4 year old and we were consistently doing 3'6"+ as a mid to late 4yo.

Soundness has SO MUCH MORE to do with proper maintenance and conditioning and conformation (some horses are just built to stay sound) throughout the horse's life than whether you jump them over little fences early on. I think the focus on jumping early is just ridiculous. That's not to say that pounding them over jumps over and over again as a youngster is a good idea....just that a well prepared and executed conditioning and training program isn't going to "make" a lame horse down the road.

I would say that those 4yo jumpers who are broken down at the age of 7 or 8 had a lot of other missing components in their schedules and lives (poor conformation or poor shoeing or poor conditioning or poor training or some combo of them all).

But it's often easier to blame the early jumping. Too bad horses aren't that "simple."

Lucassb
Apr. 13, 2009, 02:24 PM
again, not baiting or looking for a fight, genuinely curious, because i'm probably overly cautious but because i plan to own my imported german warmblood (got him at five years old from germany) for his entire lifetime, i'm perhaps unduly preoccupied with keeping him sound. i want to be able to look him in the eye at 30 years old god willing and know i did my best by him.

so the 20 year old of which you speak...or any of your horses that you've had for their entire careers...do they get hock injections? and when did they start needing them? because when i say 'go lame' that's part of what i consider going lame - needing injections at an early age to keep going soundly. a mare at my old trainers who needed hock injections at the age of 6 comes to mind. i found that preposterous. and yet people shrugged it off as a natural consequence of being an athlete! again call me conservative but these are the things i wish to avoid if possible.

thanks very much and please know i'm trying to learn more, not be an instigator.

My 21 year old got hock injections one time (and one time only) at around 9 years old IIRC. He never needed another round. Other than that, he's never been on anything more significant than normal oral joint supplements (Cosequin) and is still going strong today. For whatever it's worth, he wasn't lame when I did the injections, just started swinging his hind end over the bigger oxers instead of folding up straight as he had always done in the past. It solved the issue and he went on to show successfully for many years after that. He is now leased out to a jr rider and is teaching her the ropes.

That said, I don't consider it "preposterous" to inject a horse if it will make them more comfortable and would never voice that opinion about the treatment of someone else's horse. I rely on my very competent veterinarians to help me assess the proper program for each individual. I've never had one that needed intervention at 6, but there are all sorts of things that can happen which might make such a treatment perfectly reasonable. For instance, there are some horses that fuse a bit early and need some help to maintain their comfort during that process; once the fusion is completed, they are generally perfectly sound afterward and don't need any ongoing treatment. I know several OTTBs that fell into this category and went on to have very long, happy, successful careers.

There was a young horse at my barn whose owners were very much opposed to any kind of medical intervention for their young (5-6 year old?) horse about 18 months ago ... a nice young WB gelding who was acting like a brat under saddle. He wasn't even started til he was four and a half, and was brought into work very conservatively with months of light flatwork before they began allowing him to hop over the odd crossrail, so he was not exactly pounded. However, although they backed off the training, tried rest, had the saddle evaluated etc, eventually they found that even flatting him became a challenge.

Eventually the trainer talked them into having his backs and hocks evaluated. A combination of chiro & injections made an enormous difference for him and the horse is now happily back to work, doing the children's hunters and going like a rockstar. He was never lame but clearly he had discomfort from work which was resolved by the intervention. He has not needed any other injections or meds since then, and the vet doesn't expect that his career will be compromised in any way.

Personally I think the best way to keep a horse sound is to get and keep them fit and strong. We do a lot of conditioning work on our horses and keep them in light work even during their downtimes, so that it is never a big deal or a lot of stress to bring them back to fitness. They do get plenty of variety (hacking out, treadmill work etc) in addition to time in the ring; we don't drill them, but they work hard enough to look like the athletes they are. That helps keep their attitudes happy, too, and they are generally perky and ready to go to work when we pull the tack out.

That said, the above is my personal philosophy and the program I have had success with. Every horse is an individual and has to be dealt with as such. There are some with conformational challenges that might warrant a different approach. I don't judge other people's programs or what works for them.

KristieBee
Apr. 13, 2009, 04:12 PM
OP sorry for hijacking your thread but I want to thank everyone for their responses to my questions about what keeps a horse healthy and sound and allaying my fears.

I grew up showing sometimes but trailriding bareback most of the time. This is my first foray, truly, into owning a real athlete and becoming one myself. I just want to do it right, my horses were always sound but they had a very different life. I have a great trainer and a great farrier and would like to be less on edge than I am. I'm not interested in bubble wrapping, I definitely want to have fun with him, but want to make the right decisions as well.

I struggled with soundness issues with this horse for about two years, and it's true, now, that a trainer with a solid dressage background, a good consistent workload, hacking out, body work, and proper shoeing have gotten him in great shape. Having been through what we went through in the beginning though I get very preoccupied with keeping what I have.

My trainer says the same things as you did, PNWJumper and I thank you and she would thank you lol for helping me to relax. LucasB too, thanks.

Much appreciated, all of you!
Best
KB

Giddy-up
Apr. 14, 2009, 09:23 AM
OP--I know Nancy & her clients send some to IJF every year. Ask her any IJF questions & perhaps even what her program to prepare is like. She may have some good pointers. I believe the Midwest is held at Trader's Point & I think they jump around a jumper course in the grass GP field? From the pics I have seen it looks 3'-ish.

I too saw the $1000 part if the horse completes it rounds. That's a nice reward for those participating in the program.

mvp
Apr. 14, 2009, 09:52 AM
Also not spoiling for a fight. I'm so sorry that my early post offended the OP. That was not my intent and I didn't know that bringing up the maturity issue was so wrong.

So, several post later about "what counts as sound" "how long a horse typically 'lasts'", "what contributes to a horse's long-term soundness," one of my original questions still remains. I think someone ought to do a longevity study for horses shown in futurities versus those that are not. Perhaps one already exists?

Again, sorry if this offends, too.

Giddy-up
Apr. 14, 2009, 11:51 AM
So, several post later about "what counts as sound" "how long a horse typically 'lasts'", "what contributes to a horse's long-term soundness," one of my original questions still remains. I think someone ought to do a longevity study for horses shown in futurities versus those that are not. Perhaps one already exists?

Again, sorry if this offends, too.

The problem with that study is everybody's program to get ready for any of those events is going to vary. Some people over drill for perfection, some go with whatever they get after 5 jumps.

I think genetics also plays a role. You could have a 6 YO who has done very minimal work u/s that needs his hocks injected. Or you could have a horse that is 16 YO getting injected for the first time.

And sometimes it's just a crap shoot. As careful as you are & do what you feel is "right" for your horse, it could still happen that they need some maint starting at a younger age.

Giddy-up
Apr. 14, 2009, 11:54 AM
Soundness has SO MUCH MORE to do with proper maintenance and conditioning and conformation (some horses are just built to stay sound) throughout the horse's life than whether you jump them over little fences early on. I think the focus on jumping early is just ridiculous. That's not to say that pounding them over jumps over and over again as a youngster is a good idea....just that a well prepared and executed conditioning and training program isn't going to "make" a lame horse down the road.

I would say that those 4yo jumpers who are broken down at the age of 7 or 8 had a lot of other missing components in their schedules and lives (poor conformation or poor shoeing or poor conditioning or poor training or some combo of them all).

But it's often easier to blame the early jumping. Too bad horses aren't that "simple."

BIG thumbs up. :yes:

Justice
Apr. 14, 2009, 04:55 PM
All you have to do to get the $1,000 is get around, not go clean. Sadly, Justice was nominated for the IJF instead of the IHF. We went ahead and did it, and it was a lot of fun. Everyone sort of stood at the gate and scratched their head as he went around going, huh... nice hunter.

When you talk about horses ending up lame from jumping/showing too early, I think it's way too much of a generalization. Some horses are easier than others, and need a lot less schools to get to the ring. This particular horse was small and easy. I think we did the IJF as his fourth show. BTW, he's 12 now and is sound as a bell.

Samotis
Apr. 16, 2009, 11:48 AM
just sent my nomination in!

What shows are they at in California?

I wonder if it is the same show as IHF.

anyone know the courses? (what the 4 year olds have to do)

Justice
Apr. 18, 2009, 02:33 AM
But I've been gone from California for 5 years and don't even know if they ended closing the Oaks for shows.

The class is usually on the grass, and is pretty twisty, but is definitely set up to showcase the horses, not scare them. There was a trot fence coming off a turn in the second round, but I don't know if they do that every year.

ksully913
Dec. 1, 2009, 03:12 PM
Does anyone have any information on this for 2010? My new mare is nominated for IJF (shame, she is definitely a hunter) and she is currently in her three year old year. I'm wondering, what affect would this have on her in terms of the hunters (fence heights etc.) and has anyone out there ended up with a hunter that was nominated for IJF rather than IHF?

I'm not totally invested in doing this, but she came with the futurity papers, and I thought that I should at least look into all our options. Obviously I would also wait and see, she is halfway into her 3 year old year and only has about 15 rides on her.

Is there another website anywhere that has more up to date information? Thanks!

slp
Dec. 1, 2009, 03:50 PM
Does anyone have any information on this for 2010? My new mare is nominated for IJF (shame, she is definitely a hunter) and she is currently in her three year old year. I'm wondering, what affect would this have on her in terms of the hunters (fence heights etc.) and has anyone out there ended up with a hunter that was nominated for IJF rather than IHF?

I'm not totally invested in doing this, but she came with the futurity papers, and I thought that I should at least look into all our options. Obviously I would also wait and see, she is halfway into her 3 year old year and only has about 15 rides on her.

Is there another website anywhere that has more up to date information? Thanks!

You best bet is to call or email the IJF directly; they were very responsive with me when I had some questions.

Our horse is IJF nominated even though it's now looking like he is going to be more of a hunter. We had him entered at Trader's Point this past year for the 4 year old class but decided to not go; he was not mentally prepared, nor did we have the training facility at the time to get him prepared for what he would see there. In hindsight I am SO glad that we did that, because we had friends there and they told us the course was not all that simple, and it is held on the grass field; I doubt he would have gotten around. I saw some of the photos online from the class, and there was stuff that would have freaked him out.
If you have the time to get your horse to several shows first and do a couple of the entry level (0.95 meter?) jumper classes, and they go around just fine, then you should do ok at the IJF class. We had only done a few baby greens, and that was not nearly enough preparation for that class.

LeeB10
Dec. 1, 2009, 03:59 PM
What shows are they at in California?

I am in California and that is mainly where my daughter shows. I have the HITS Thermal booklet in front of me and there aren't any 4 year classes in it - just the 5,6,7&8. I don't remember seeing any at the shows we attended this year - maybe LA National or Del Mar Showpark shows might have them?

ksully913
Dec. 1, 2009, 05:58 PM
You best bet is to call or email the IJF directly; they were very responsive with me when I had some questions.

Our horse is IJF nominated even though it's now looking like he is going to be more of a hunter. We had him entered at Trader's Point this past year for the 4 year old class but decided to not go; he was not mentally prepared, nor did we have the training facility at the time to get him prepared for what he would see there. In hindsight I am SO glad that we did that, because we had friends there and they told us the course was not all that simple, and it is held on the grass field; I doubt he would have gotten around. I saw some of the photos online from the class, and there was stuff that would have freaked him out.
If you have the time to get your horse to several shows first and do a couple of the entry level (0.95 meter?) jumper classes, and they go around just fine, then you should do ok at the IJF class. We had only done a few baby greens, and that was not nearly enough preparation for that class.

Thanks for your response, I will contact them!

So you said that your guy is more of a hunter, but that you entered him anyway. If you had gone through with it, would that have broken his pre-green status? If my understanding is correct, after doing this, the horse would then be a first year green horse? I got that from this line, but may be misunderstanding:

"Participating in the IJF events will not, in itself, jeopardize a horse's First Year Green eligibility for the following
year. "

I understand that to mean that it would affect the pre-green year?

Sorry if these are dumb questions, I've been a jumper all my life, and my new mare is changing my path! Of course I'm not going to push her to do anything she won't be ready for, but I will have plenty of time to get her out to shows this spring if she is ready. She is going into full training in January.

slp
Dec. 1, 2009, 08:06 PM
Thanks for your response, I will contact them!

So you said that your guy is more of a hunter, but that you entered him anyway. If you had gone through with it, would that have broken his pre-green status? If my understanding is correct, after doing this, the horse would then be a first year green horse? I got that from this line, but may be misunderstanding:

"Participating in the IJF events will not, in itself, jeopardize a horse's First Year Green eligibility for the following
year. "

I understand that to mean that it would affect the pre-green year?

Sorry if these are dumb questions, I've been a jumper all my life, and my new mare is changing my path! Of course I'm not going to push her to do anything she won't be ready for, but I will have plenty of time to get her out to shows this spring if she is ready. She is going into full training in January.

You know, it probably would have affected the pre-green status, we just didn't think about it. The horse didn't start jumping (just small stuff) until after he turned 3, and then in the spring of his 4 year old year had to have surgery and was out for about 2 months. He was completely recovered and going well and we were still figuring out whether he would be a hunter or jumper, but were planning on doing the class either way. Then our trainer quit and moved away suddenly, and he just wasn't ready so we decided against it....but even if he had gone around like a hunter but gotten around, they still pay you the thousand bucks!
As it was I was out maybe $35 for canceling, the show refunded our stall and everything. :)

ksully913
Dec. 2, 2009, 11:48 AM
The more I'm learning about this the more it doesn't really make sense to me. My mare's birthday is in may, so I consider next year her four year old year. I was thinking we'd probably do the baby greens, and see how all that goes then maybe trying some pre-green towards the end of the year. Who knows. Are there really horses out there doing the first year greens in their five year old years? My girl is big, 16.2 right now, and still growing, I don't want to push her and break her. Especially since she is a longer term resale project, taking it slow is definitely better. Is it simply because its IJF and not IHF? My horse's breeder nominates all her horses for IJF, and we got her for really cheap because she definitely won't be a jumper. Oh well, sounded cool anyway!

Giddy-up
Dec. 3, 2009, 08:39 AM
What shows are they at in California?

I am in California and that is mainly where my daughter shows. I have the HITS Thermal booklet in front of me and there aren't any 4 year classes in it - just the 5,6,7&8. I don't remember seeing any at the shows we attended this year - maybe LA National or Del Mar Showpark shows might have them?

I speak only from having participated in the IHF side of things, but it seems IJF runs a similar style program.

They don't have the 4 YO classes at the regular shows. IJF is a "special" class like IHF. I believe IJF is a Regional thing so you would need to find what show is hosting the Regional that year (or which Regional you'd like to attend). For example, the Midwest Regional has been held at Traders Point, IN so in August you go to that show & enter the IJF 4 YO class then. There are no qualifiers, your horse needs to be nominated & you enter.

As far as breaking status--I "believe" if you only show in the IJF class, then your horse will be fine (that's how IHF was). But if you show in other classes to prepare, be careful cause that could create an issue for your horse's eligibility. If you want to get ring mileage without breaking your horse's green status, I suggest going to unrated shows then.

findeight
Dec. 3, 2009, 12:13 PM
Just my 2 cents worth but I would not be that concerned with a futurity just because I bought a youngster that was eligible.

Ksully, if you think it is better suited as a Hunter, go that way and plan on starting in your local Baby Greens in early summer IF your training progresses well off those 15 rides that are all you have in it today. No need to tailor a training program for a probable Hunter centered on making a Jumping Futurity appearance just because it is an option...it is only an option and should not dictate what you do.

I dunno if it would even be a good idea to plan on this August show from where you are right now. Only 8 months to teach it W-T-C steering, basic leads and changes and getting over the striped poles and some modest spreads in a strange place on a grass field in front of a bunch of people.

No idea how you are set up or your ability or trainer situation...but that is alot in 8 months. With a probable Hunter. Those that do the futurities regularly don't take everything that is eligible, they evaluate and pick only those mature enough to benefit. Then they do a balancing act between teaching them a whole lot in a relativly short period of time and not overtaxing them. It is an art.

Now, no mistake, I like the Futurities and feel if properly prepared for with the right horse, it is a positive, not a negative. But there is great potential for error...more likely if you feel you HAVE to get there with one. You don't.

And, yes, there are some out there in the First Years at age 5...but towards the end of the year, not the beginning. But not that many. Most prefer the 5 year old year at Pre Green IF they are ready for that. Save the First Years for when they can get a full year in, for most that is the 6 y/o year.

Oh, never forget alot of these horses are sale horses too. They do need to get them out and seen and that can influence when they show them.

ksully913
Dec. 11, 2009, 10:23 PM
I didn't mean for it to come across in any way that I would be pushing this horse to do anything she isn't ready to do. All I was doing was trying to understand the futurity itself, and the crossover between a hunter horse and the IJF. The breeder I got this horse from nominates all her horses for the IJF, but I got my mare for the price I did because she is much better suited for the hunters. That being said I am set up with a fabulous training situation, though when looking at the mare she was w/t/c with changes (not perfect obviously) and small courses. My mare will be a sale horse down the road, so I definitely have that in mind. The ultimate goal is obviously to maintain a sound sane horse.

The questions about the hunters were really just basic questions for my own knowledge. I have been in jumper land for a while now, and am much less familiar with the norms with the hunters. Hence, the age questions. Sorry if you thought it came off like I have no idea what I'm doing and was planning to do this regardless of my horse being ready or not- that was not how I intended to come across in my posts, because it isn't the truth.