Terrifying Fall in Steeple Race-horrible slideshow

[Villager]

This is one sport I just can't bear to watch. Does anyone know if rider or horse survive this?- I'm sure the horse didn't....Was this not a sport up for debate with regards to welfare of the horses?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/02/terrifying-horse-and-ride_n_182371.html

[twobays]

This is one sport I just can't bear to watch. Does anyone know if rider or horse survive this?- I'm sure the horse didn't....Was this not a sport up for debate with regards to welfare of the horses?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/02/terrifying-horse-and-ride_n_182371.html

Both the horse and jockey survived, two other horses weren't so lucky. http://animalaid.org.uk/h/n/NEWS/pr_horse//2108//

[cu.at.x]

I agree that this is pretty horrific, but if we're going to ban steeple chasing, shouldn't we be banning cross-country as well? Isn't it just about as dangerous? Not trying to stir up trouble, just a legitimate question.

[twobays]

I agree that this is pretty horrific, but if we're going to ban steeple chasing, shouldn't we be banning cross-country as well? Isn't it just about as dangerous? Not trying to stir up trouble, just a legitimate question.

I have absolutely no opinion on this (I'm from hunterland), but I don't think cross country is as dangerous as steeplechasing? I really have no idea, but it doesn't seem like horses regularly die at events, while it does seem (based on the handful of articles I've read trying to get information about the photo here) that it is pretty common to have at least one death during any given day of this meet.

[slc2]

The whole fall was very deliberately not shown by the photographs. The effort was to make it appear to be a fatality. There were several more photographs in the series that look quite different from what was shown in that link.

The horse, after starting to flip like that, actually fell over onto his right side, and immediately lifted his head and neck up off the ground. The last picture looks for all the world as if the horse was uninjured.

After he started to flip, it appeared he did not land on his head at all, simply fell over on his side without stressing his cervical spine or head/neck. The rider looked in harm's way as several horses came along, but it appears he was able to get out of their way.

[MistyBlue]

I would guess steeplechasing to have a higher injury/fatality rate than x-country...guess based on the fact that on x-country it's one horse and rider at a time. Steeplechasing if horse goes down or riders comes off there's going to a whole lot of horses going too fast and too close by to avoid trampling most of the time. Not to mention falls seem happen over the obstacles and you can't see through or over those if you're behind. First clue of a horse or rider down may be while you're already in the air over the obstacle. Accidents probably also happen due to other horses and riders trying to avoid those on the ground.
It's definitely not for the faint-hearted, that's for sure. :eek:
I think there's been more publicized issues on x-country more recently possibly due to riders and horses moving up faster than their experience allows for. It's creepy enough sometimes watching jumpers moving up too fast hot dogging around and knocking fences left and right...with solid obstacles on tired horses it has to raise the risk factor quite a bit. I don't follow x-country too closely...so I could be incorrect in my opinion. But it does seem the more publicized recent issues have been with younger/less experienced riders riding above their experience levels.

[anita m]

My farrier, who is a steeplechase rider, says the Grand National is definitely tough, maybe the toughest race on earth. Not all steeplechases need to be suicidal death races. It all depends on the height of the fences.

[damecheval]

Do you know that there are steeplechases for people to?! No really, it's a bunch of kids on the track and feild teams running around the track with big jumps in their way. They try to jump over the jumps but fail misrabley and just kind of... climb their way over. :lol: If you search 'steeplechase fall' on youtube, that's kind of all that you get for results. Much more entertaining than comedy central! But then again, a lot of things are...

[cu.at.x]

Even though x-country is one at a time, there are a good number of injuries and fatalities--certainly more than other equine sports, including show jumping and racing. I'm not saying I think it should be banned, but maybe we need to re-evaluate course design to make it safer for horse and rider?

[Frank B]

Does anyone have a link to reliable news sources other than these supermarket tabloids? I did both Yahoo! and Google searches on this and nothing turned up, except for Mon Mome's 100-1 shot win yesterday.

The two sources cited are not noted for objectivity.

[vineyridge]

Go over to the racing forum and ask over there. Some of the regulars are up on all steeplechasing news and can lead you to "real" news sources.

[Frank B]

Go over to the racing forum and ask over there. Some of the regulars are up on all steeplechasing news and can lead you to "real" news sources.

OK, I finally found one: http://sports.yahoo.com/rah/news?slug=ap-grandnational&prov=ap&type=lgns

It's a bit different from what was referenced:

Hear The Echo collapsed and died a few hundred yards from the finish. He was the fifth horse to die this year in the three-day meet. Butler’s Cabin, one of the pre-race favorite, also collapsed and had to be given oxygen.

[vineyridge]

The GN is talked about, including the collapses and deaths, on the Grand National thread on the racing forum.

If you're interested in News sources, try the BBC which carried it, The Racing Post, The Telegraph online, The Times online, The Guardian online, Sporting Life online, and this site which is very comprehensive-- http://www.attheraces.com/index.aspx

The Brits cover their big chasing meets exhaustively in all media.

[farmgirl88]

I personally think steeplechasing is a lot more dangerous than cross-country.

Not all cross country riders gallop flat out at jumps and there is a certain level of concentration and collection towards the jump that steeplchasers just dont have. Cross country jumps tend to not be as tall and sometimes as wide as steeplechase jumps.

Another ting- when horses are gallpoing flat-out like steeplechasers are...at fences...they are going to jump more flat than they would at a more collected pace or collected gallop. Cross country horses are trained from the flat on up through gymnastics and such to use themselves correctly over fences, not just propel up anf forward like the steeplechasers who tend to jump more hollow-backed and up and over.

The grand national is a little over 4 miles long...at a full gallop...with extremely high and wide jumps throughout. Many horses just fail at the fences portion from complete exhaustion.

This is were the word tradition masks safety. People use the word tradition to get past the question on whether or not such a sport is humane for the horse on all levels. I wouldnt have a problem with if it wasnt known for killing so many horses

[JSwan]

And you know all this because what - you're a jump jockey?

I know plenty of 'em and you're talking out your ear. And I also know their horses because a heck of a lot of 'em are out hunting.

Athletic, sharp, educated horses and riders.

I agree that this is a high risk sport and there is a chance of injury or death to horse and rider. But that's true of all horse sports to a certain degree.

It's possible to intelligently discuss the aspects and risks of a sport without disparaging its participants or ranting about how "cruel" it is.

And you do realize that eventing did and still does have a steeplechase phase? In which the horses do jump the fences at speeds and in the same style as chasers?

[Drvmb1ggl3]

This is one sport I just can't bear to watch. Does anyone know if rider or horse survive this?- I'm sure the horse didn't....Was this not a sport up for debate with regards to welfare of the horses?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/02/terrifying-horse-and-ride_n_182371.html

If you or the Huff Post had actually bothered to watch the race you would have seen De Luain Gorm get up and gallop on with the field.
If you or the Huff Post had actually bothered to read any publication, either print or online, that covers British and Irish racing, you'd have a clue as to what the outcome was.

Get a clue.

[twobays]

If you or the Huff Post had actually bothered to watch the race you would have seen De Luain Gorm get up and gallop on with the field.
If you or the Huff Post had actually bothered to read any publication, either print or online, that covers British and Irish racing, you'd have a clue as to what the outcome was.

Get a clue.

Honestly, its pretty freaking hard to find an online source to view the race. I tried for like a half hour after reading this thread and couldn't find anything. I looked through a bunch of different articles and while nearly all referenced the accident, ONLY ONE said that the horse survived and got up.

You don't need to get all huffy...I think the OP was genuinely interested in what happened to the horse, and it wasn't like the information was readily available.

[twobays]

It's possible to intelligently discuss the aspects and risks of a sport without disparaging its participants or ranting about how "cruel" it is.



Where do you see ANYONE on this thread ranting about how cruel steeplechasing is??? :confused:

[Drvmb1ggl3]

Honestly, its pretty freaking hard to find an online source to view the race. I tried for like a half hour after reading this thread and couldn't find anything. I looked through a bunch of different articles and while nearly all referenced the accident, ONLY ONE said that the horse survived and got up.

You don't need to get all huffy...I think the OP was genuinely interested in what happened to the horse, and it wasn't like the information was readily available.

the replay can be watched online at several different online racing portals, neither of which is hard to find for anyone mildly interested in British racing.

[JER]

the replay can be watched online at several different online racing portals, neither of which is hard to find for anyone mildly interested in British racing.

And for those too lazy to figure out what a racing portal is, just try YouTube.

Also, YouTube has some interested up-close-and-personal videos at various NH yards in the UK. Like this Paul Nicholls stable tour (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iczp0nybP5M). Steeplechase horses have a pretty good life.

[twobays]

A quick five-minute google search didn't turn up any videos...I'm not familiar with British/Irish racing, so I don't know the "go-to" websites for recent videos. The pic is on a million websites, but there was no explanation of what happened after. Given the fact that 1) this race is historically dangerous and 2) that for a lot of us, its difficult to find websites that have video coverage of British horse racing, the OP's question was a legitimate one.

And by the way, the youtube video was basically useless. The video follows the field, so if a horse falls, you aren't going to see him get up by the time the camera has moved on. Plus, the footage isn't great and its difficult to identify individual horses. With quite a few horses losing their riders, its tough to see exactly what's what.

Can we just stop blasting the OP? I think all she wanted to was to see what happened to the horse...

[Drvmb1ggl3]

Can we just stop blasting the OP? I think all she wanted to was to see what happened to the horse...

Bullsh1t.
The OP has an agenda, which is evident from his/her post.....

...."This is one sport I just can't bear to watch."
...."Does anyone know if rider or horse survive this?- I'm sure the horse didn't"
...."Was this not a sport up for debate with regards to welfare of the horses?"

If all s/he wanted to know was how the horse was s/he could have watched the race, read about it on any of the main racing websites or asked on a myriad of racing forums populated by people that follow jump racing.... gosh darn, there's even one here on COTH, it's called amazingly enough the RACING Forum.
Inside s/he posted sensationalist pictures with the inference that the horse died and and undertone that the sport is bad.

[twobays]

^ I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I don't think the OP was intentionally posting a frightening picture with the agenda of blasting the sport, I took it as she came across this photo, it reminded her why she doesn't like to watch steeplechasing and then she wanted to know the outcome.

When I saw the photo, my first reaction was "would it be possible for a horse to survive that kind of fall?" It was just pure curiosity. And I have literally no interest/opinion about steeplechasing. I don't think I'd have the stomach to watch it either, but I certainly don't have an "agenda."

[La Gringa]

I am getting sick of all these shock threads on here. If she can't bear to watch, opposes it, thinks it is cruel, why does she bother to post and broadcast it as a headline on the BB.

There are very bad wrecks every day in Horse Sports, flat racing, rodeo, steeplechase.

Hell, horses die every day in the pasture playing.. either by a kick, fall, heart attack, or whatever.

It's life. No we aren't going to stop riding them, keeping them, or using them for our purposes. Horses exist on earth for human use, we created them as they exist today, and accidents happen in life. No avoiding it.

So...

why do you all have to keep putting these shock threads on here? Oh yeah... to get attention paid to YOU, not the actual subject you are posting about.

It's so tiresome.

[twobays]

I am getting sick of all these shock threads on here. If she can't bear to watch, opposes it, thinks it is cruel, why does she bother to post and broadcast it as a headline on the BB.



Um...because she wanted to know if the horse survived...? Read the first post...

And really, why not take your own advice? If seeing "shock threads" bothers you so much, why bother to post in them?

[La Gringa]

Usually I don't. It just lately almost every other thread on here is some disaster, death, hit and run, or something.

It's like bad TV sensationalism.

I am glad the horse survived, and do have sympathy for those that didn't...

There are plenty of sites where people can read about this stuff, easily, without having it be broadcast in a public forum.

It's like everyone on here is competing for the most sensational shock thread.

Really... that's my point here.

We all know horrible things happen ..

If it's a legitmate thing that people can help with... like saving a horse in need etc fine that I don't have a problem with.

Posting a thread with horrific fall photos that are trying to sensationalize something and make it look worse than it actually was... I do have a problem with.

Steeplechasing, horse racing, car racing, extreme sports of any kind have risk. If people don't like it, don't watch it.

There are plenty of other venues that don't carry as much risk.

For those that do these high risk sports, they know the risks and do train to prevent as much of the accidents as they can. At speed though, involving animals jumping there are going to be falls and accidents.

I am just sick of all the headliner threads with these shock elements to them. The title of this thread is "Terrifying Fall in Steeple Race - Horrible Slideshow"

If the OP was just concerned of the welfare of the horse, it could have read something like -- Horse falls in steeplechase, was he ok?

Why the sensational Headline? I think there was a message here beyond just seeing if the horse was ok.

[La Gringa]

Bullsh1t.
The OP has an agenda, which is evident from his/her post.....

...."This is one sport I just can't bear to watch."
...."Does anyone know if rider or horse survive this?- I'm sure the horse didn't"
...."Was this not a sport up for debate with regards to welfare of the horses?"

If all s/he wanted to know was how the horse was s/he could have watched the race, read about it on any of the main racing websites or asked on a myriad of racing forums populated by people that follow jump racing.... gosh darn, there's even one here on COTH, it's called amazingly enough the RACING Forum.
Inside s/he posted sensationalist pictures with the inference that the horse died and and undertone that the sport is bad.

:yes::yes::yes:

[twobays]

Usually I don't. It just lately almost every other thread on here is some disaster, death, hit and run, or something.

It's like bad TV sensationalism.

I am glad the horse survived, and do have sympathy for those that didn't...

There are plenty of sites where people can read about this stuff, easily, without having it be broadcast in a public forum.

It's like everyone on here is competing for the most sensational shock thread.

Really... that's my point here.

We all know horrible things happen ..

If it's a legitmate thing that people can help with... like saving a horse in need etc fine that I don't have a problem with.

Posting a thread with horrific fall photos that are trying to sensationalize something and make it look worse than it actually was... I do have a problem with.

Steeplechasing, horse racing, car racing, extreme sports of any kind have risk. If people don't like it, don't watch it.

There are plenty of other venues that don't carry as much risk.

For those that do these high risk sports, they know the risks and do train to prevent as much of the accidents as they can. At speed though, involving animals jumping there are going to be falls and accidents.

I am just sick of all the headliner threads with these shock elements to them. The title of this thread is "Terrifying Fall in Steeple Race - Horrible Slideshow"

If the OP was just concerned of the welfare of the horse, it could have read something like -- Horse falls in steeplechase, was he ok?

Why the sensational Headline? I think there was a message here beyond just seeing if the horse was ok.

....Ok....either way, if it bothers you, don't read it. Don't work yourself up into a tizzy if you can avoid it. Let those who want to read "sensationalistic" threads read them, and let those who don't stay away.

I don't understand how you can say "If people don't like it, don't watch it" and then continue to rant about this thread. If you don't like it, don't read it. Plain and simple.

[La Gringa]

Good advice.

I just wish there weren't so many of these headlines in here. It really is kind of the dominant topic it seems on here.

I guess this one hit a nerve too because it really does feel like there is more of a message here than just horse welfare.

[twobays]

Good advice.

I just wish there weren't so many of these headlines in here. It really is kind of the dominant topic it seems on here.

I guess this one hit a nerve too because it really does feel like there is more of a message here than just horse welfare here..

That's the nature of the off-course BB.

Until the OP comes back and says otherwise, I still believe she opened this thread to find out what happened to the horse. You can disagree; you're entitled to your opinion..I can see your point, too. EVEN IF the OP did have an "agenda" that's OK, too. The point of a BB is to share ideas. The OP is entitled to share her ideas too, even if, to you, they seem stupid/kooky/wrong.

[JER]

The race in question is the John Smith's Foxhunters Chase at Aintree.

Not so hard to find a video. Go to the Aintree course site (http://www.aintree.co.uk) and go to 'watch racing.' (http://www.aintree.co.uk/pages/watch-racing/) Down below the video screen, you'll see a scrolling list of race replay bids to choose from. When you mouse over the thumbnail, you'll see the name of the race below. The Foxhunters Chase is on the third scrolling click, the third from the left. (It is the 17th thumbnail on the entire scroll.)

Enjoy.

[La Gringa]

That's the nature of the off-course BB.

Until the OP comes back and says otherwise, I still believe she opened this thread to find out what happened to the horse. You can disagree; you're entitled to your opinion..I can see your point, too. EVEN IF the OP did have an "agenda" that's OK, too. The point of a BB is to share ideas. The OP is entitled to share her ideas too, even if, to you, they seem stupid/kooky/wrong.

Point taken, afterall shock threads and tabloids do sell......

Some people make a living at it, and a good one at that.

Geraldo is not my favorite journalist though LOL,

I guess this is the Fox News of COTH. :lol::lol::lol::lol:

Go for it... I will keep my mouth shut from now on. It is a bit amusing if you think about it that way.

[Villager]

I have never met with such rudeness and sarcasm and hostility. Please- the few of you that think I "have an agenda"- you don't know me-you don't know the tone of voice I would have used if you had heard me ask in a live situation. I have posted 22 times in 5 years-and from those innocuous posts, you will somewhat demise that I am not the trouble maker, sensationalist that you make me out to be. If you check my posts they are all pretty mild mannered asking for advice or giving opinion.

Believe me I had no intention of starting a war, trainwreck, whatever,- I wantd to know from these horrifically dramatic photos if anyone knew of the results. I'm not aware that a poster must fully research every online avenue to find the answer first before daring to start a thread. If I don't like some posts- I stay away based on the topic heading.Mine was pretty clear to stay away from, for those that hate the words "Terrifying Photos". If you think I have an agenda, instead of spewing negativity on the board- PM me privately to ask what my intentions are-that way communication can be cleared up in private. If I met you in a social situation with photos in hand and mentioned the race and asked if anyone knew the answer- would you talk to me face to face in that manner?

I so appreciate you twobays for defending me in a thread that I had no idea I was in need of. For others that stated some opinions on the nature of the particular sport and the results in a more courteous manner -thank you
And you know what?? its my birthday- so I'm going to have a drink after all this.....

[La Gringa]

I apologize for my rudeness. I guess it's just been a lot of these kinds of threads lately, and the title was pretty strong.

I don't know you and can't really say I know if you have an agenda or not.

So... I'm sorry.

I usually stay away from this BB altogether for the most part.. lately I have been home a lot and browing more than normal.. so I got sucked in again.

So have a drink.. on me... sorry for the crap.

[LexInVA]

Remember La Gringa, Rt. 50 is your lifeline to the outside world! :D

[La Gringa]

Remember La Gringa, Rt. 50 is your lifeline to the outside world! :D

LOL true, if I wasn't so broke since my job layoff I could actually go someplace.

I will be out of here in May anyway... back to the left coast.

[Villager]

Apology accepted ..and BTW I love your water colors of Pancho, Pedro, Echo, and Dora!
Also Love the Rooster and the Carmel Seascape. Keep on painting and posting more on your site--

Cheers-
from an aging west coast Canadian with 3 forever native ponies in her back yard......

.

[La Gringa]

Apology accepted ..and BTW I love your water colors of Pancho, Pedro, Echo, and Dora!
Also Love the Rooster and the Carmel Seascape. Keep on painting and posting more on your site--

Cheers-
from an aging west coast Canadian with 3 forever native ponies in her back yard......

.

Thanks! They are Acylics and Oils actually... has been good to keep my mind busy while job hunting.

I agree with you on Steeplechasing, it's too scary for me to watch too... I have been live to the Gold Cup and the timber races often have casualties. I saw one that only one horse finished with rider on him.

It's just the nature of the sport. It's not for whimps that's for sure.

[slc2]

"I am getting sick of all these shock threads on here. If she can't bear to watch, opposes it, thinks it is cruel, why does she bother to post and broadcast it as a headline on the BB"

Part of the problem is that the rules are different with internet news. There are an incredible number of biased, partial and misleading threads. WHY? Because people lap it up, and that means money for those who publish the garbage. You go and read their garbage, and it so shocks and horrifes that you come crawling back for more, and their advertisers make money. It's that simple.

To try and get others to also not like the sport, so it eventually gets banned. Otherwise, there would be no need to post it in public. The intent is to shock and horrify. The query about the horse's safety is part of the tactic. Agenda No? No.

The photo sequence DELIBERATELY is pruned so you DON'T see that that horse is alright. Fact is, that horse and rider were unhurt.

This is sensationalism and very biased journalism. The horse fell over harmlessly on his side. THOSE pics are not included so you will be shocked and horrified. The horse landed too close to the jump and flipped, but put no stress on his cervical spine and instead of flipping over completely, fell to one side and landed harmlessly.

And it's also not entirely true that 'horses die every day in the pasture' is an excuse for negligence in the facilities or obstacles of a sport. The organizers of these races go to great pains to control and mitigate risk thru maintenance of obstacles, footing, etc, and horses can even be 'ruled off' the track if they show unpredictable behavior.

The series ''Jockeys" also showed how extremely strictly the riding is controlled, and how very easy it is to get disqualified or lose the right to ride if one does not follow extremely strict rules. In fact, the rules for the jockeys and how they are allowed to ride are unbelievably strict and no risk taking receives even the slightest tolerance.

The organizations generally do everything they can to make a herd of horses running at top speed and leaping over obstacles, as safe as it possibly can be, but there is indeed an inherent danger in a group of horses running and jumping, one would be foolish to try and deny that. One can also debate the basic philosophical concept of danger in sport WITHOUT sensationalism and misleading pictures.