Describe the lower level horse

[enjoytheride]

I would like a description of the average lower level (BN and N) horse. Breed, size, experience, etc.

What wins? What gets around and has fun? Does breed/size/experience matter? How does the rider factor in?

Is there an average or does "everything" go at this level?

How about the rider?

I want to hear about the people at the very bottom of the sport that are either fine and dandy being there or wanting to move up. Did you have to sell your econag for something more competitive? When did you realize this and what did you get to help you pursue your goals?

This is in response to Craig's article, I want to hear about what IS really out there eventing at the bottom of the sport.

[yellowbritches]

Everything goes at that level. I have seen, I'm pretty sure, just about everything at that level. Ponies of all shapes, colors and sizes, TBs, QHs, Arabs, Appies (my appy was a BN/N extraordinaire), WBs, draft crosses, full on draft horses. They can all do it and do do it. And, if they put in a good test and jump around the jumping phases, any of them can and do win. Same goes for riders, though I wouldn't mind see some riders a whole lot fitter than they are. ;)

[asterix]

Ditto to what yb said. A horse that can be relaxed and obedient in the dressage test can score very nicely at that level, regardless of gaits or (if the judge is judging to the level) how correctly connected they are.

Riders who can ride accurate figures in dressage, establish a good safe speed in jumping, and let their horses do their jobs, succeed.

I've seen so many "ordinary" horses doing a great job at this level -- many times despite their riders, who are often maybe too nervous to let the horse do its job.

[GiGi]

I am in my 40's with 3 young boys; I have trained two horses from the age of 2 yrs. and have done all the training myself with just lessons when I can afford them. I started my gelding but he just wan't an eventer. But even as a very green horse my mare would jump anything bravely and take care of me. So I retired the gelding to dressage only. My mare is an Appaloosa Sporthorse from non-QH breeding who's granddaddy was a phenomenal eventer as is alot of his get and grandget. I did some hunter as a young rider but didn't do my first xc until I was 40. I am an adrenialin junkie. I am THE only rider at competitions that YeeHaw's/Yahoo's at the top of my lungs at the end of cross country. I ride for the FUN and thrill of it. I am looking at novice for this fall as BN is not quite as thrilling anymore for me or my mare. I will move up when I am bored at a level. If I find novice or training consistantly challenging I will just stay at that level. I find at BN many finish on their dressage scores but there is always a shake up of placing after each jumping phase. Our last trial I moved up from 14/17 to 7/17 due to others having jumping issues. I would rather not win that way; I would really like for everyone to have clear rounds and seeing anyone with an E makes me sad. But I am in it for FUN FUN FUN and I ride for SAFETY. If its not fun as an amature why do it?

[Milocalwinnings]

My boy and I do BN and he's a 16 y/o TB/QH cross. Just started eventing last year and have only gone to a couple of shows (eventing/jumpers). Wanted to event this year but I'm sidelined w/ an injury:no: He has the jump that he could go N at least... but I'm not up to that level currently.
I wasn't concerned with winning, just wanted to have fun and get around the course safely!
I did jumper shows 2 summers ago and he was great. I was hoping to do them this summer but I don't think I'll be back to seriously riding in time. When jumping at home we do about BN height. He LOVES to jump and hardly ever comes close to touching a rail unless I really set him up horribly. He is generally pretty strong which is hard sometimes, and at shows he needs a really confident ride because he is a bit more lookie and sticky. Coming up to the first fence or two I'll usually give him a lot of voice and leg to make sure he gets over (I learned that one the hard way!) but after that he and I both settle in pretty well. XC he's better than I give him credt for a lot of times. I get nervous and therefore that affects him, but if I just take a deep breath and let him do his thing he's awesome.

I've known people who've evented Foundation Bred QH's, TB's, WB's, Appies, Draft X's etc... At the lower levels, pretty much anything can get around and IMO anything has a shot at being in the ribbons.

[KBG Eventer]

I would like a description of the average lower level (BN and N) horse. Breed, size, experience, etc.

What wins? What gets around and has fun? Does breed/size/experience matter? How does the rider factor in?

Is there an average or does "everything" go at this level?

How about the rider?

I want to hear about the people at the very bottom of the sport that are either fine and dandy being there or wanting to move up. Did you have to sell your econag for something more competitive? When did you realize this and what did you get to help you pursue your goals?

This is in response to Craig's article, I want to hear about what IS really out there eventing at the bottom of the sport.

Well, there are SO many different breeds out there with riders from all kinds of backgrounds, but I will tell you about me and my horse.

We have both been quite solid at Novice with good results for over a year. Before that he was successful at Novice with someone else, and I had gotten solid at Intro and BN with a couple of other horses.

He is a 1997, 15.2, registered Paint gelding and is an awesome all around horse. He does Pony Club (has gone through C2. I'm about to go for my C2 with him), dressage, eventing, jumpers, swimming, trail riding, foxhunting (all fields. I have hunted him 2nd and 1st), hunter paces, etc. I've had him for 2 years, and we have gotten a bunch of offers on him, but I don't have any plans of selling him any time soon.

The best things about Sonny are that he usually goes better the better I ride him, but he is so quiet and honest that when I mess up he can get the job done pretty well on his own. This way he has been very confidence building, but he also helps me become a better rider. He is actually pretty sensitive to the aids so when I am riding correctly he can go very well, and he can also be stubborn! Otherwise little kids can get on him, or I can be riding badly, and he kind of just plops around and doesn't look too impressive. I have never tried it, but I am almost positive he could even teach riders how to post. When little kids get on him they can hardly get him to move, lol! He has Training/1st Level down pat, and my dressage trainer really wants use to try some 2nd level later in the year.

In jumping, he has self preservation and isn't going to crazily jump absolutely no matter what but is definitely honest. Our "issues" are that he can start getting a little hyped up and wants to run or flatten out at the jumps and take the long one. We sometimes have the same idea on that one so I have to work on keeping the same canter to the base and waiting. On the other hand, he can get a little lazy and needs some waking up to get him jumping off the ground and not "sticking" (which also has to do with me keeping my leg to the base obviously). He is good with ditches and great with banks and water, and we have made time easily at Novice including 400mpm. I am moving up to Training next weekend, and I have a feeling 450-470mpm is going to take some getting used to. He barely EVER knocks rails down, but that could change at Training where more accuracy is going to be required on my part.

I have goals of the T3DE and maybe a long format CCI* one day. Possibly higher, but I really have no idea. I would be happy reaching Prelim eventually, but I am in no hurry. I'm a perfectionist, but I think I am a decent rider although I let my nerves affect my riding sometimes. I make it through cross country in galloping position without huffing and puffing at the end, but I do need to gain some more fitness and core strength.

ETA: Sonny's record... http://www.useventing.com/competitions.php?id=831&horse_id=103221. We have beat fancier moving horses more than once with a steady, accurate test or have moved up with clear rounds. :)

[Meredith Clark]

I hope she doesn't mind me sharing this... but my younger sister leased an AMAZING lower level event horse. She was a full TB who I believed had raced long before Ally got her. She was quiet, thoughtful, but still made her rider think and work for it!

Ally likes riding but is more of a "brush and trail ride all day" not "how soon can I get to A pony club" kind of rider! When our trainer hooked her up with Sysco her entire outlook changed. She loved lessons and would go out there on her own to school. She enjoyed shows and really wanted to improve herself.

She did a couple of BBN and BN events while Sysco was alive and even though it wasn't always pretty (wrong leads in dressage and going off course in stadium!) she learned SO much and really got her basics down. That's what I like to see in a good lower level horse, Sysco passed on way too early and Ally has never really connected with another horse since.

[Meredith Clark]

http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2925209650068747398BloQds

lovely huh? hahaha

[Wee Dee Trrr]

My personal list of lower level horses!
12.2 POA gelding, N
13.3 POA gelding, N
13.1 paint gelding, BN
14.3 appendix gelding, BN
15.1 QH mare, N
15.1 anglo-arab mare, T
16.1 OTTB gelding, N packer
15.2 OTTB mare, P packer
15.2 OTTB gelding, P
15.3 OTTB gelding, N packer
17 OTTB gelding, T packer....so far : )

Can you tell I like ponies and OTTBs??

I loved riding each of these horses for various reasons. They all did well. I've not competed above prelim and never plan to. And I'm definitely only in this for the fun of it.

[eventer_mi]

I've had two absolutely amazing lower level horses, both of which I trained myself and took through Novice/Training. One was a 16.2+ Perch x Morgan who always placed in the top three in dressage (not too impressive of a mover but steady as a rock) and jumped clear, and my former Saint of a Paint who was a bit more work to get together for the dressage (but was fancier when I did) and was a much better jumper. Both horses had 99.9% clean records - the only goofs in their careers (one per horse) were when *I* screwed up (fell off on the way to the water, and forgot to steer to a pimple jump). Both horses were rock steady jumpers, very quiet, needed a bit of leg (the Perch cross) and rebalancing before the fence (the Paint), husband-proof, and 7 movers.

I don't know if they would be as competitive these days in the lower levels, though, and that was only about two years ago! Around here, Area II, we see MUCH fancier horses in the dressage that are first and then go around to jump clean to win the show. I have a new horse, a young Trakehner gelding, who's got the same temperment as the former two and will jump anything, but is unproven in the dressage as of yet. As someone else stated, I do this to have FUN, and all the talent and movement in the world doesn't mean anything if you can't ride it. Problem is, around here, people have the money to buy both talent and temperment, and they don't come cheap.

I'm interested in hearing what others have to say. I keep seeing fancier and fancier horses out there going BN....

[magnolia73]

I have seen so many- I love the full percheron who events in our area. He is my favorite. Actually- sorry- my favorite is the haflinger that I saw at the Fork. I was very close to theft. Arabians. Saddlebreds, Quarter horses, of course TB's. There was a giant holsteiner who was oh so slow-. Many spotted horses.

I think that the common denomoinator on the successful ones is personality. On XC, they just do- they jump and are safe- some do look fast though. Some look slow. In dressage, quality varies. But they are all caretakers- they don't throw any suprises. It's not that they are easy- some of those arabians look like pistols! But I think they are consistent, with riders comfortable with how they go.

The cut off around here seems to be Novice. Training and up- it's TB or warmblood types with only the occasional different horse.

I hope that "fancy" never replaces the parade of breeds at BN and N. The dressage judges might fall asleep.

[Auburn]

My Kentucky Mountain Saddle Horse mare was 7th (USEA) for BN Horse of the Year in 2008. Last year, we won three events in Kentucky (Area8).

Tess understands her job quite well. She knows the difference between schooling dressage and actually doing her test for real. For the dressage test, I have to channel her energy, which for me is sometimes a challenge. When I get it right, she can score in the upper 20's or low 30 penalty point range.

If I remember my cross country course, we are usually clean. We used to get time penalties, because she didn't know how to gallop. She improved so much last year. She learned to gallop, because of her fear of cows. :eek: There was a cow in the pasture next to my conditioning field. She would be quite frantic to get away from it, so I used that to my advantage to teach her how to go faster. Last year, we only had time faults in one event.

Our stadium rounds are getting better, too. Now that Tess understands forward, we are making the time. She doesn't like to touch the jumps, so rarely has a rail.

My plan to move up to Novice is on hold. Today, we were supposed to be riding at the Spring Bay event. The weather is going to be sunny and in the 60's today. Tomorrow is to be cloudy, but close to 70. I am still bringing Tess slowly back from pneumonia. So, I will spend tomorrow volunteering as a jump judge. Hopefully, when we finally make the move up to Novice, Tess will be as good of a Novice packer, as she has been at BN.

OP, in answer to your question, I believe that a confirmed BN/N packer is a horse that will do a nice dressage test that is forward, showing an acceptance of the bit and will listen to the rider's aides to ride the test accurately.

These horses are honest jumpers who have a survival instinct to get themselves and you out of trouble. They are also forgiving of your mistakes. They have "heart". At the lower levels, I believe that any breed is capable of doing well.

As others have posted, there are many unusual breeds who can do the lower levels well. Often, I am surprised when I see the Fjord's, Paso Fino's and other non-traditional breeds who are going to the AEC's and winning. FNS Maarta was the Fjord who won the AEC's at BN in 2007.

[eventer_mi]

Magnolia, if you are in Area II (NC), I'll bet money that full Perch you're seeing is actually Quincy, who's around 18 hands and is only HALF Perch, if you can believe it (the other half is TB - guess which side shows through!).

Pegasusmom's son (and hubby) have a loffly, enormous, beautiful bay with chrome draft cross that usually cleans up in dressage and places quite well at the lower levels. He's pretty cool.

[Bobthehorse]

Everything goes at that level. I have seen, I'm pretty sure, just about everything at that level. Ponies of all shapes, colors and sizes, TBs, QHs, Arabs, Appies (my appy was a BN/N extraordinaire), WBs, draft crosses, full on draft horses. They can all do it and do do it. And, if they put in a good test and jump around the jumping phases, any of them can and do win. Same goes for riders, though I wouldn't mind see some riders a whole lot fitter than they are. ;)

Totally! My LL stars have been an Appy and a QH. The Appy won the year end Novice award, and the QH was 3rd at Novice and last year won both the provincial champs and the year end award at Training. They both did great tests (though by no means fancy dressage horses, just obedient and rhythmic and nice enough) and fab, honest, forgiving jumpers that had very "I got this, no worries" attitudes. Also last year my friends Appy mare won the BN champs, and my friends Paint mare was reserve, and won some year end awards as well. Stock breeds are extremely common, cheap, come in all shapes, and tend to be very ammy friendly and athletic enough. I cant speak to any other breeds though, except my young TB/WB who was definitely not bought for his LL potential ;).

[tarheelmd07]

Magnolia, if you are in Area II (NC), I'll bet money that full Perch you're seeing is actually Quincy, who's around 18 hands and is only HALF Perch, if you can believe it (the other half is TB - guess which side shows through!).


I always had a hard time believing that Quincy was only half TB...wherever that half is, it's hiding in there pretty good :lol:

He's a cool horse though...I greatly enjoyed the year that I leased him, and he was the horse that really got me into eventing. I was hoping to run into him at SPHT-1, but looked like he scratched with the bad weather. I miss the "big Q"... but couldn't stay away from the big horses, as I'm riding another 18h horse now :yes:

[magnolia73]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Magnolia, if you are in Area II (NC), I'll bet money that full Perch you're seeing is actually Quincy, who's around 18 hands and is only HALF Perch, if you can believe it (the other half is TB - guess which side shows through!).

He's 1/2 TB????? I used to ride a full percheron who was built just like Quincy. They could have been twins. I guess Nicholas was somewhat rounder when he was unfit, but when he was fit.....he was no bigger than Quincy! For the record I did a few small events with Nicholas and he did well - maiden. So yes, your full drafts can play- but it is hard to get them fit and in the end, Nichola's feet did not do well with jumping. Plus there was quite a learning curve for jumping stadium jumps. I don't think they feel the sting of a hard rap.

I bet the TB in quincy gives him some conformation/structural differences that have let him be successful over the full draft.
Nicholas- very fit in that photo
http://www.pbase.com/ratsnest74/image/38414337

Quincy-
http://hoofclix.smugmug.com/gallery/6374569_C32UK#403495617_5kXcR

Definitely same neck/head, but more refined shoulder and hind end.

[sunnycher]

I ride a 1/2 shire mare that I've owned since a baby. All her training is mine, with great lesson help. We were Novice Champions in our small event derby series last year.

She is steady as a rock, safe and sane and fun to ride. With some great dressage lessons, she is using her hind end better, so she is almost 'scopey', well, for her.

Anyway, wouldn't trade her for the world, she is my confidence builder.

I have a 5 y.o 1/4 perch & 3/4 TB who will be awesome. I've taken some h/j lessons on him lately, and he is very cool. Great brain, on the laid back side, but responsive. He will start this year with xc clinics and some BN derbys. I just do it for fun, and have no aspirations to
go to big shows, just to spend time with my beasts and enjoy a small show and I love the xc clinics. We have KOC coming to my favorite place this summer, I'm excited and nervous..