Saddleseat people

[luvs2ridewbs]

Just out of curiousity, (I show hunters not saddleseat) what classes/ divisions are open to professionals? I know about jr exhibitor and amature classes but what do the trainers show in? In hunters, pros show in "open" classes with no restrictions to rider/horse status OR green horse divisions where the horse is restricted.

[bort84]

Yeah, they have to show in "open" classes. It generally will always say "open" afterwards so that you know it's open to professionals. This kind of varies by breed though. I'm most familiar with Saddlebreds and Arabians, and the classes open to professionals almost always say open in the class name.

So in ASBs, pros cannot show in any pleasure classes (western pleasure, country pleasure, show pleasure). There is now a park pleasure class (a step between show pleasure and park - different levels of animation in the horse) that is open to professionals. It originally was put into place so that pros could work a horse for an amateur that was intended to eventually show in the pleasure division. In pleasure classes, the horse has to flat foot walk. In the non pleasure classes, horses can do an animated walk (2 beat, like a very slow trot) because they tend to be a bit more keyed up.

Anyway, so in ASBs, pros can never show in the pleasure classes except for park pleasure. In the non-pleasure classes, there are usually designations as well so that amateurs don't have to always show against pros. If a class is a "ladies" class, it's open to amateur and professional adult females (same with a gentlemen class). Some are designated for amateur ladies. Okay, you get the point = )

In arabs, it's similar, but pros can show in all divisions (western, pleasure, park, etc). There are generally designations afterwards, like AOTR is amateur owner to ride (amateur on the horse must own it). Or it will say open to say pros are allowed.

Goodness, I don't think I needed to say quite that much, but you get the idea = ) Also, there are usually young horse classes too (junior horse in arabs is 5 and under I believe, and a junior horse in ASBs is 4 and under) that pros often show in.

[Deuce]

With saddlebreds anything with "Open" is open to professionals. Ladies classes are open to female professionals as well. These Open classes are generally restricted to performance classes (3-gaited, Park, 5-gaited, Fine Harness).

Pleasure (Country, Show, Western, Hunt) classes with saddlebreds are restricted to amateurs with the exception of Open Park Pleasure, 4 year old (Junior Horse) as well as 3-year old Park Pleasure classes.

I know other breeds do things differently.

[luvs2ridewbs]

Why would the show designate between ladies and gentlemen? In hunters, we have amateur owners where the owner must ride. But never are they seperated by gender of the rider.

[bort84]

Umm, I don't know, tradition I guess? It's just something you see at ASB shows. The rules are a little different too. If you check the breakdown of how the classes are supposed to be judged, in a Ladies class, manners are supposed to be paramount (you know, for all those delicate, fainting females, haha). So in a plain open class or in a class for gentlemen, your horse could be a smidge less mannerly and not be penalized as much.

It's actually pretty interesting to look at the breakdown of what horses are supposed to be judged on in specific classes. There are actual percentages, if I'm not mistaken, for each category (manners, quality, performance, etc...) I'm not sure how precisely judges always take this into account, but they are certainly guidelines. Sort of like how in an open class, conformation is VERY important, these are supposed to be the top specimens of the breed. So a horse with a low back will not win an open class but is more acceptable in a class for junior exhibitors. Anyway... I ramble = )

[Deuce]

Why would the show designate between ladies and gentlemen? In hunters, we have amateur owners where the owner must ride. But never are they seperated by gender of the rider.

And generally they do, in the Amateur division. Gentleman's classes are pretty rare, with the exception of a few larger shows... Ladies classes are only in the performance division.

Here's what USEF has to say regarding Open/Amateur/Ladies horses. As you can see, manners are more important for a Ladies (and Junior Exhibitor) horse than an amateur horse.

OPEN, JUNIOR, THREE-YEAR-OLD, TWO-YEAR-OLD, MAIDEN, NOVICE AND LIMIT. Classes are judged on performance, presence, quality, manners and conformation. The OPEN horse should be the ultimate representative of the breed. It should be as nearly perfect as possible; performing all gaits with animation, brilliance and extreme action at both ends. Performance is paramount in these classes; next is presence, quality, manners andconformation


LADIES. Classes are judged on manners, quality, presence, performance and conformation. A LADY’S horse should be outstanding in refinement and elegance with suitability of horse to rider taken into consideration. Expression is paramount and quality is a prime consideration. The execution of gaits should be performed with brilliance on command. The horses should walk and stand quietly.

JUNIOR EXHIBITORS, AMATEUR AND OWNERS. Classes are judged on manners, performance, presence, quality and conformation. Manners are paramount in these four classes but there is a difference in the way in which horses are judged in each

AMATEUR and OWNERS horses can be a bit stronger and perform in a bolder manner. More action and animation are desired and less emphasis can be put on manners than in Ladies and Junior Exhibitor classes

[bort84]

Nice work, Deuce. I used to pour over the rule books when I was little. I thought it was all so interesting, haha. And I'd read ANYTHING that had to do with horses. I was like a little sponge.

[equusvilla]

Why would the show designate between ladies and gentlemen? In hunters, we have amateur owners where the owner must ride. But never are they seperated by gender of the rider.

In larger shows, the adult classes can also be divided up into many age groups too...which kind of sucks once you are over 40 and don't really care to advertise it! ha ha...

[luvs2ridewbs]

Is horse judged in the equitation classes say if its a junior class such as above? Or is it just about the rider like it is in hunt seat eq.

[Deuce]

Is horse judged in the equitation classes say if its a junior class such as above? Or is it just about the rider like it is in hunt seat eq.

Yes, it's all the same rule book.

Generally though... you're going to get further with a better horse.

[Deuce]

Nice work, Deuce. I used to pour over the rule books when I was little. I thought it was all so interesting, haha. And I'd read ANYTHING that had to do with horses. I was like a little sponge.

I hope everyone who shows at least reads up on the discipline/division they're showing in.

But I've seen some things at shows which makes me wonder if everyone does....

[CA ASB]

Uh, guys, you're wrong. Pros can now show ASB Western and Hunter Pleasure. (Change was effective for all of 2008.)

SB154:
5. Notwithstanding SB136, professionals may compete in a Western Country Pleasure Prospect Class. In addition, professionals may compete in one designated Open Western Country Pleasure class provided two additional Western classes restricted to amateurs are offered at the same competition. Any such designated class must be scheduled prior to classes restricted to amateurs.

SB159:
4. Notwithstanding SB136, professionals may compete in a Hunter Country Pleasure Prospect Class. In addition, professionals may compete in one designated Open Hunter Country Pleasure class provided two additional Hunter classes restricted to amateurs are offered at the same competition. Any such designated class must be scheduled prior to classes restricted to amateurs.

So, yes, Deuce, you do need to read up on the divisions :yes:

[Amwrider]

Just want to add that with the Morgans, the pros can show in English Pleasure classes that are open, but cannot show in Classic Pleasure.

[Renae]

Is horse judged in the equitation classes say if its a junior class such as above? Or is it just about the rider like it is in hunt seat eq.

The quality of the horse is not judged the same as it is in a pleasure or performamce class, but the rider needs to show that they can get the highest quality ride out of the mount that they are on. Not all saddle seat equitation classes require an individual pattern, so sometimes you are judged on group rail work alone. A quality horse is an asset, but a rider from our barn this last season placed ahead of a girl on a former world champion while riding one of our lesson horses in an equitation class- so you can do well with a lesser quality horse if you show that you can ride that horse for all that it is :) Of course at the top level all the riders are top quality riders on top quality horses, but at the local and regional level you will see more variety.

[Deuce]

Uh, guys, you're wrong. Pros can now show ASB Western and Hunter Pleasure. (Change was effective for all of 2008.)

SB154:
5. Notwithstanding SB136, professionals may compete in a Western Country Pleasure Prospect Class. In addition, professionals may compete in one designated Open Western Country Pleasure class provided two additional Western classes restricted to amateurs are offered at the same competition. Any such designated class must be scheduled prior to classes restricted to amateurs.

SB159:
4. Notwithstanding SB136, professionals may compete in a Hunter Country Pleasure Prospect Class. In addition, professionals may compete in one designated Open Hunter Country Pleasure class provided two additional Hunter classes restricted to amateurs are offered at the same competition. Any such designated class must be scheduled prior to classes restricted to amateurs.

So, yes, Deuce, you do need to read up on the divisions :yes:


Yes yes... but I've seen TWO open western pleasure classes at rated shows, well ever. Actually... heh heh... I SHOWED in one about 5 years ago. I didn't feel it worth mentioning they're just SO rare. Are they more common on the west coast?

[War Admiral]

Yes yes... but I've seen TWO open western pleasure classes at rated shows, well ever. Actually... heh heh... I SHOWED in one about 5 years ago. I didn't feel it worth mentioning they're just SO rare. Are they more common on the west coast?

They're pretty common here. I'm no fan, but the way it seems to be shaking here is an Open class, then the Shatner or S&B & then a stake.

[Hunter Mom]

How popular are the hunter classes in ASB? When I showed SBs, such a creature didn't exist. Arabs were just starting them. My horse had just moved down from being a 3 gaited horse, and we did pleasure & pleasure eq. He was FUN!

[War Admiral]

How popular are the hunter classes in ASB? When I showed SBs, such a creature didn't exist. Arabs were just starting them. My horse had just moved down from being a 3 gaited horse, and we did pleasure & pleasure eq. He was FUN!

It really depends where you're located. Not too long ago, I talked on the phone with a LONG-time ammy in KY who had never (ever!) seen an ASB Hunter class. She had just seen her first one ever, and was excited about it. Yet a little farther South, last time I was at SE Charity, the ASB Hunters was one of the deepest classes of the whole show - right up there with Jr. Ex. Country Pleasure.

I live right at the intersection of Regions 8-10 and IMO they're deeper & more frequently offered in Region 10. Which means, of course, that I'll be securing a Region 9 residential address when the Q-man is ready to go! :cool::lol:

[Renae]

How popular are the hunter classes in ASB? When I showed SBs, such a creature didn't exist. Arabs were just starting them. My horse had just moved down from being a 3 gaited horse, and we did pleasure & pleasure eq. He was FUN!

It does vary greatly by state. I think the Ohio area has pretty strong representation. Up here in Minneosta we will have a show that will have as many as 8-10 hunters and then the next show in the area or the same show the next year will have none or one. Most shows have 2-4 up here. Many Saddlebred hunter pleasure horses, at least in our area, are kept by amateur owner trainers, and many of them don't campaign their horses as frequently and regulalry as the horses that people keep with professional trainers.

[ReSomething]

No jumping at the tournament series that just wrapped up here. This one had a Shatner class, and bareback each time I went, along with the eq and pleasure divisions, also Academy Eq, or whatever they call the pattern class (trainer has showbill, I only see it to know when to go on deck) We had driving in one, they opened the class for one competitor, so there is a possibility they might put in a hunter hack if there was an interest. I know the venue has ample nice jumps for the HJ series that runs there.

Oh yeah, "here" is KY, and Mr Shatner keeps a farm nearby so a Western (Shatner) class is a given, because he just might show up.

[Renae]

Saddlebred shows do not have working hunters or show jumpers. Hunter hack is very, very rarely offered. Most Saddlebred show managers are very open to adding classes, however the general policy is you need to sponsor the class and guarantee at least 3 entries.

They usually have hunter country pleasure at Saddlebred shows, which is a rail class where you have to walk, trot, extended trot, canter, hand gallop, halt on the rail, and back. Some shows also have a Hunter Seat Classic class in which you do the same rail work and then may be asked to jump a single 2' jump.

[CA ASB]

Deuce - that would have been an OTAB (open to all breeds) Western Pleasure as the rule change allowing pros to show in ASB breed specific Western Pleasure didn't happen until last year. BTW, pros have always been allowed to show in the OTAB classes and have the horse then cross enter into the WP classes at the same show.

But yes, we have them regularly. At the Rainbow Royale show I was just at in Burbank, they had:

ASB Amateur & Stake
ASB Open & Stake
ASB Junior & Stake
OTAB Open & Stake
OTAB Amateur & Stake

Up in Oregon we had ASB Amateur & Stake, Open & Stake, Shatner and OTAB Open, Amateur and a single stake.