Dog Food Choices

[avezan]

I just adopted a dog last week. He came home from the shelter with a bag of Science Diet dog food. (Thanks Science Diet for your very generous donations!) But I don't have easy access to that brand. I want to find a dog food that is convenient and a good food. Here are my choices. I would like opinions on these brands:
Plain ol' Purina - $25/40lb bag
Purina One Adult - $35/40lb bag
Iams Large Dog - $40/40lb bag.
These (above) are available at the grocery store.
Below are brands my feed store told me they carried.
Big Red - ?
Diamond - ?
Both are Southern States brands.

So my question: Is plain ol' Purina ok? It doesn't have the fancy additives and supplements that the others have, but has the basic correct nutrition. What about the difference between Iams and Purina One? I'm willing to pay the extra $5 per bag if Iams is that much better than Purina One, but if they are basically the same, then I think the Purina will be easier to get (My grocery store only had 1 Iams in stock when I checked earlier).

My new dog is a 50lb Australian Shepherd. Probably purebred. He is active and in good weight now. Good coat. Easy going personality. Here are some pictures: http://www.windyspringfarm.com/Jake/Jake.html I took him to a groomer (for a good bath when I first got him!) who used to raise Aussies and I asked her what she fed and she recommended Nutro's Natural Choice. I used to feed this to my Border Collie when she was younger and had some coat issues. But later in life I fed her plain ol' Purina and she did well on it. I'm afraid the nearest place to get it is about 20 miles away, and I need to keep my life simple.

So, advice/opinions on these dog foods is appreciated! Thanks.

[Simkie]

I'd really recommend you hit this site: http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/

I wouldn't feed anything you've listed.

[Alagirl]

Frankly, go with the simplest solution. I have not heard a great deal of good about Hill Science - at least not for the healthy dog.

Of course, you will find as many opinions on dog food as there are dog owners! Somebody told me 'I'd shoot my dog before I feed him kibble' while somebody else suggested nothing but kibble, so if problems arise you have less to look at.

IAMS took a hit reputation wise (never fed it) when the company was bought out and was made available in grocery stores. I never fed it, can't tell you about the content.

I fed my dogs Old Roy, they looked pretty good, didn't get a whole lot of it either.

If I were you, I'd try the Purina. You can always go back and adjust!

[Mav226]

I agree that I wouldn't feed any of those, unless necessary.

I had to break it down for my husband by telling him to avoid byproducts, corn, wheat, and soy in the dogfood (plus some other things that our dog is allergic to).

Look at the nutritional information, if it lists any of the above--I wouldn't feed it. But, that's just me.

FYI: Most vets are NOT savvy when it comes to dog food. Hence the reason for the poor choice of brands they carry in their offices and the equally awful nutritional advice. They do have canine nutritionists, I just don't know of one personally.

[Simkie]

Mav226, I have to laugh--my vet carries Innova now. I think it has something to do with how whenever I went in with my dogs or cats, he ALWAYS said "WOW! They look SO GOOD!! What are you doing?!" and my answer was *always* "It's the food!"

avezan, I feed Innova (www.naturapet.com), which is fantastic. I'm a fan of all the Natura Pet products, honestly. They also have a very nifty tool that allows you to compare their food to other foods and gives you a little blurb about each ingredient. It's under "Tools" on their website. Might be a good idea to go play with that, in additiona to hitting the analysis site I linked earlier.

[avezan]

avezan, I feed Innova (www.naturapet.com), which is fantastic. I'm a fan of all the Natura Pet products, honestly. They also have a very nifty tool that allows you to compare their food to other foods and gives you a little blurb about each ingredient. It's under "Tools" on their website. Might be a good idea to go play with that, in additiona to hitting the analysis site I linked earlier.

Hmm. there is a retailer not far from where I work. Why do you like it so much and what does it cost? I did go to the analysis site, but wasn't sure what I was looking at really. When I searched on Purina and read the review, it seemed to be more of an opinion. I just couldn't figure out if the reviews were based on research....or if I wasn't using the site correctly...or who was behind the site.

I'm here to be educated. ;) Go for it, educate me! :)

[goodhors]

Dog Food is expensive, no getting around it. I have always done well with Purina, use it for all the dogs as puppies, until about 18months for larger breed dogs. I feel they need the extra stuff when building the basic body structure, bones, teeth, calcium needs of growing animals. Cheaper than buying the extra vitamins to get them.

I usually use a generic dog food for the older dogs, cost is a factor. I do look for low protein, want it 16-18 percent, no more. Sometimes that can be quite hard to find, but a requirement for me. I have seen liver problems with the very high protein dog feeds, always commented on when the State Police Dogs do a demo. They changed their feed programs, dogs were not lasting, developed the liver problems. These were the Shepherd breeds, German, Belgian breeds. Really gets expensive when those dogs cost $10-20000 EACH!!

My various dogs have played hard, lived long healthy lives on the lower protein, cheaper, dry dog foods. Great hair coats, good teeth and energy.

I read labels, compare quantities, percentages, ingredients when choosing dog foods. Just not willing to spend those huge $$ amounts a bag, with the big dogs eating quantities of food. My pet budget is just not going to tolerate that kind of spending. It can really ADD UP!

I refuse to be guilted by commercial advertising into buying $40 a bag dogfood, to "Show what a CARING dog owner" does to feed their companions. People often ask what we feed, are surprised that it is NOT brand name feed. My dogs are all purebreds, registered. So they don't even have the mixed dog "hybrid vigour" to point at for good use of "cheap" dogfood!

Good luck with your new dog, hope it turns into a wonderful older dog.

[Simkie]

Innova has very high quality ingredients and high quality protein sources.

Purina has low quality ingredients and low quality protein sources.

Go here: http://www.naturapet.com/tools/comparison.asp

Select "Innova Adult Dry Dog Food" and "Purina Complete Nutrition Formula." Look at the ingredients. Click on the little arrows for a little blurb.

Dogs should NOT get their calories and protein from grain. They should get their calories and protein from MEAT.

[BuddyRoo]

Feeding a more premium food that is more nutrient dense is going to net in overall cost savings...not only because you have to feed less, but because your pet will be healthier getting better nutrition.

There are lots of opinions on things like corn...by products...etc....so I won't get into all that. But I will say that there are several more premium brands that are going to be better than the Purina by a long shot.

Generally...if you can buy it at the grocery store, it's not so great.

I'm a rep for SD/Hills and worked in veterinary medicine for about 10 years...so consider me biased.

But just to give you an example of the cost per day savings...I have a 90lb (not fat) lab. My friends have a lab slightly smaller. I feed 3C of food in total per day of SD LB. They feed Pedigree and have to feed about 8C per day.

I would say that much like horses...try to have your pet on the best food you can afford.

[Simkie]

Forgot to answer your question about cost.

I just bought dog food yesterday, $48.99 for 30 pounds. Lasts me about a month or a little less, feeding 2 70 # dogs. They each get 2-3 cups a day.

And a little story, to illustrate the difference between good and bad food: When I purchased my younger dog, her breeder had the puppies on Pedigree and had my little 8 week old puppy on FOUR CUPS TWICE A DAY to support her growth. Eight cups a day!!! And that's what she needed, because Pedigree is shit. I immediately transitioned her to Innova, and was able to drop her to one cup twice a day.

Yeah, you pay more for really high quality food, but you're going to feed a lot less, and your dog is going to be healthier. You're also going to be picking up less in the backyard.

[Fairview Horse Center]

I feed Blue Buffalo. http://www.bluebuff.com/products/dogs/lp-adult-fish.shtml

I was feeding my dog Pedigree, because it was the only feed that she would eat (barely). She is eating about the same amount of Blue Buffalo, but this she really loves. She is a 55lb high energy lab, and eats about 4 cups per day. It is costing me about $40 a month.

[Whimsically Smart]

I can't give an opinion on what you should feed as I don't live around you and the brand I use is Canadian. However, we used to feed Iams, before it was bought out. When they were bought out the formula was changed and my cat stopped eating it all together and we could really notice the difference with the dogs. I suggest you ask a vet about a high quality brand to feed, grocery stores do not carry high quality pet food.

[WalkInTheWoods]

After going to that analysis site that Simkie posted a few months back(thanks Simkie !) i upgraded to a 6 Star dog food. Orijen made in Canada. Im trying to get a local pet store or feed store to carry it but for now im getting it autoshipped from petfooddirect.com

Here is what im using http://www.orijen.ca/orijen/products/adult.aspx

[RacetrackReject]

I feed Taste of the Wild and get it from Tractor Supply. I believe it is listed as one of the better feeds for dogs and it is grain free and comes in 3 different flavors.

My dogs LOVE it! They were started on Science Diet, per my vets, when puppies. One thing I noticed is that on Science Diet, their poop was very stinky. Now, I could be standing outside right next to them when they do the business and never know.

[Ride'emCO]

I'm with Simkie on the Innova. Both of my dogs love it and look fabulous.

[Indy]

We feed ours Innova and he does great on it. He's around 50lbs and one bag will last us probably a month and a half.
One thing we noticed when we switched him over to Innova from a lesser quality food was that now that he isn't eating all the filler and junk, he poops way less. He used to go up to 5 times on a walk and now he'll go once or twice, depending on the length of the walk. Not having to carry 5 bags of dog poop around the neighborhood is worth every penny!

Our housemate's highly allergic beagle gets Merrick Turducken and she's doing great on that.

[Riley0522]

I feed Taste of the Wild and get it from Tractor Supply. I believe it is listed as one of the better feeds for dogs and it is grain free and comes in 3 different flavors.

My dogs LOVE it! They were started on Science Diet, per my vets, when puppies. One thing I noticed is that on Science Diet, their poop was very stinky. Now, I could be standing outside right next to them when they do the business and never know.

I've got to agree with you on the Taste of the Wild. It is actually one of the only foods listed on dogfoodanalysis that is a 6 star. I feed all my dogs and fosters the Prairie formula and have not found a dog that doesn't like it or doesn't do well on it. Even my female with suspected (thanks really expensive emergency vet stay of 3 days and $3000) irritable bowel disease tolerates it very well.

[ponyjumper4]

Big Red - ?
Diamond - ?
Both are Southern States brands.

Diamond is not a Southern States brand, but a lot of Southern States dealers do carry it. Big Red is being phased out and replaced with the new and improved Southern States line. There are two new lines, The Complete line which is an economy line that replaces Big Red and the Advanced line, which is premium. Southern States completely redid all of their formulas to include better ingredients and analysis. I've got my dogs on one of the Sport formulas and they are doing quite well on it.

[rizzodm]

We have bought the more expensive food for our GSD Royal Canin, Canidae. When we got our pit she did not do well on anything we bought her. Her poop was soft and stinky. I thought what the heck try the cheaper stuff that I had been admantly avoiding Purina One Healthy Weight. And voila! Normal poops more weight and a happy dog and a pissed off GSD that wants to eat her cheap food and not his fancy smanchy food.

Dawn

[avezan]

Thanks for all the replies. I guess I'll get as many opinions as responses! :) I do have a Petco and Petsmart that are not too far from me. And that Innova is available at a feed store that is about 5 miles from where I work. A little out of the way, but doable (unfortunately, in the opposite direction as my house, so 10 miles out of the way). I googled Innova to find out about the price before your response and a website came up saying there was a class action suit against them for falsifying the ingredients? hmm... I spoke with a friend who has GSD's and she feeds them Science diet. I did notice his poop has been a little yellow and soft on it. But I've only had him a week and have nothing to compare it to! My last 3 dogs lived to be 13, 14 and 16 and were very healthy on plain ol' Purina. I would like to get something good from the beginning and stick with it. I like the idea of feeding less of a quality product and Indy I really like the idea of less poop! :)
i'll talk to my co-op about their Southern States food too. They may not be southern states brands, but I think they get them from the southern states distributor.

So what is the dogfood analysis site about? Who does the analysis? Who gives the ratings?

[Alagirl]

.

FYI: Most vets are NOT savvy when it comes to dog food. Hence the reason for the poor choice of brands they carry in their offices and the equally awful nutritional advice. They do have canine nutritionists, I just don't know of one personally.


Kinda reminds me of the stories I heard from a friend of mine and others over the time...my friend feeds her dogs table food. but since she eats VERY healthy, so are the dogs, low sodium, fat, real stuff, not pre made...

another person was feeding the bones and raw foods....

first the vet complimented them on the dogs then went on about how bad it is they are feeding. :lol::lol::lol:

[saratoga]

I have 6 medium to large sized dogs and I just cant spend the money to feed the super premium foods. Nowadays, a dog food is generally considered GOOD if it has lots of real meat as its main ingredients, and BAD food has things like corn, soybean, wheat, and byproducts. But in reality, I know tons of dogs fed supermarket food that are healthy and long-lived.

the Costco near me carries two brands of dog food that are pretty good quality for the price. One is Nutra Nuggets and then there is a Kirkland brand. Each are somewhere around $23 for a 40 lb. bag.

[dalpal]

Love Taste of the Wild, also like Canidae and Innova (going on what has already been mentioned)

Not fond of any that were listed in the OP and Iams does not use top ingredients.

[Fairview Horse Center]

My preious dog that would eat ANYTHING, loved grocery store brand dog food, would not eat Kirkland. My barn cast won't eat their cat food either. Usually, I love Kirkland products, but that was the last time I buy pet food there.

[RedMare01]

I really like Wellness (and my cats love it :)). It's pricey, but I don't think as expensive as some that have been mentioned here.

Caitlin

[dalpal]

I really like Wellness (and my cats love it :)). It's pricey, but I don't think as expensive as some that have been mentioned here.

Caitlin


Wellness is AWESOME, but it is one of the pricest premium foods.

[Tiffani B]

I also feed my dog Innova. I used to feed Nutro when she was a pup, but she threw up about once or twice a month without a reason. Over the years, I fed Iams, Beneful, Purina, Eagle Pack and various other brands, but most she would only eat one or two bags and then refuse to eat again. A few years ago, I noticed her age was showing (she was 7). She was getting slower at the agility trials, was having a harder time getting up from lying down, was much more lethargic, wouldn't greet me at the door anymore...

I switched to Innova Senior, and within two months I had my active, happy, energetic YOUNG dog back! Amazing. Even the vet made a comment to me last week when I took her in for her spring shots that she is one healthy dog.

She weighs about 50 pounds and a bag lasts me about 6-7 weeks.

[Simkie]

I switched to Innova Senior, and within two months I had my active, happy, energetic YOUNG dog back! Amazing. Even the vet made a comment to me last week when I took her in for her spring shots that she is one healthy dog.


FWIW, I had this same sort of experience when I switched my older dog from Nutro or something similar to California Natural nearly 10 years ago now. She had several allergies, so Innova didn't quite work for her. I was floored at just what a change I saw in her on a better quality food, and that's when I stopped feeding anything but Natura Pet.

[jherold]

Diamond has two lines. You have to read the labels to see which ones are all by-products and grain and which ones are meat and a single grain. I feed their Extreme Athelete Brand. One of the few, including some premium foods that does not include corn. It's chicken and rice. They also make an adult dog "Natural" Lamb and Rice that is very good. On the other hand, their "active dog" formula is chicken by products as the first ingredient and corn. (The price will also give it away)! But I have found the better line of Diamond foods to be very reasonably priced.

My 85 lb shepherd usually eats 2 1lb margarine tubs per day. I think that is about 3 cups per day.

[4Martini]

Our dog eats natural balance which you can buy at Petco. It's considered a premium feed. She really likes it and the vet said she looked awesome at her appointment this week. I like that I can pick it up late at night or on Sunday on the way to the barn :)

[horse-loverz]

Another Taste of the Wild fan here. I have 3 dogs, a puppy, adult dog and a toy dog with allergies. The Taste of the Wild is appropriate for all of them, and buying 40 lbs of it to feed all 3 is cheaper than buying one brand for one dog, another one for puppy formula, and another for the adult dog with allergies.
I even have my cats on their cat formula. Love this stuff.

[tradewind]

There are as many dog foods as there are opinions on what to feed dogs. I have fed ProPlan dog foods since before they came out to the public They used to ship them to me to test in plain white bags. I really like the food and I have Greyhounds and Pointers and Afghans as well as mixed breeds. When I was handlling for a living, I had everything from Italian Greyhounds to Bullmastiffs under my care and with one or two exceptions they all did well on it. The trick is to decide what you can realistically afford and how your dog does on it, etc. If your dog looks and acts well than that is how to make your decision. ONE is as far as grocery brands go, a good food. Despite what the dog food conspriatists think, most dog food companies are not out to kill your dog, it is extremely bad for business. Have there been occasional horrible screw ups with dog food companies, yes, but then so have drug companies, human food companies etc. Statistically dog food is better researched and tested than most human food. So my advice is, find a decent quality food, see how your dog does on it, and go from there.

[LegalEagle]

I couldn't find anything on the website, but as I recall, the lawsuit against Natura had something to do with labeling of ingredients. I am personally not worried about it since people sue for all kinds of stuff and sometimes it's without merit.

That being said, my three 50lb dogs are all on Innova EVO. Their big bag lasts about three weeks. Each eats two cups per day. I have tried other foods and this is what they do the best on.

You will probably have to try a few foods to see what works best. You can work out how many calories your dog needs and compare actual costs of the foods that way.

[Guin]

I feed my big dog (80 lb Golden/Collie) Nutro Lamb and Rice (4 cups/daily), and my small dog (air-fern Corgi) Nutro Light (3/4 cup daily.) They both do very well. I switched to California Natural for 6 weeks and it gave them both diarrhea, so I went back to Nutro. Neither of these have any corn in them.

I think Nutro is rated a 3-star food on dogfoodanalysis.

ETA: Of course, right now all three of us are eating pizza. ;)

[Posting Trot]

Right now I'm feeding my dogs a combination of Castor & Pollux Organix kibble and a freeze-dried food that you rehydrate by a company called Honest Kitchen. It's been a very good combination for my picky senior dog (a 14 year old Wheaten terrier), and my one year old Border terrier inhales it.
Websites: https://www.castorpolluxpet.com/store/organix/organix_adult_canine_formula

and: http://www.thehonestkitchen.com/products/index.shtml

[lcw579]

I was feeding my dogs Innova and they liked it but weren't nuts about it and I found I was throwing a lot away. One day I had to do a panic buy at the grocery store and picked up Paul Newman's Organic dog food - green label -and the dogs loved it. Even the fussy standard poodle eats it all instead of just picking the chicken out of it. Dogs get dry food to free feed and then some boiled chicken and broth added at dinner time.

I mentioned it to the clerk at the pet supply store when I went in to get their "good" food since I thought maybe it was time to try something different. Imagine my surprise when he told me they carried it and that it was actually a high quality food on a par with the Innova and California Natural. He was surprised they had it at the grocery store.

I've been feeding it for months now and the dogs are very happy. I must admit that at times it is nice to be able to pick up a bag at the grocery store instead of making a special trip. Prices aren't as good but when it's late and you realize the dogs are just about out of food, what are you gonna do? :)

[dalpal]

Isn't Taste of the Wild a Diamond Product? I remember someone telling me that it was.

[jetsmom]

I've got to agree with you on the Taste of the Wild. It is actually one of the only foods listed on dogfoodanalysis that is a 6 star. I feed all my dogs and fosters the Prairie formula and have not found a dog that doesn't like it or doesn't do well on it. Even my female with suspected (thanks really expensive emergency vet stay of 3 days and $3000) irritable bowel disease tolerates it very well.


That's what I feed. I switched to it in January. My German Shep mix has never been esy to get weight on. Since switching, I am now having to cut her back because she is gaining too much!

OP- A fairly inexpensive, yet decent food is "Chicken Soup for the dog lover". Rated fairly high but not as expensive as some other premium foods. You can buy it online or at many ag stores/feed stores.

When switching food, gradually add in a little of the new food over a couple of weeks. Otherwise your dog can get vomiting or Diarrhea.

[camohn]

My critters will not east Science Diet.....turn their noses up at it.
They like the Iams but not as much as the Purina One or ProPlan. PO is the favorite. Normally I get the PO but the other week the Iams was on a good sale so I got that one. They ate it until it was getting low and I got a new bag of PO. There were Iams kibbles left in the bowl and they chewed a hole in the new One bag to eat that out of the bag instead. The old dog we had that passed away last fall would only eat One or ProPlan....refused to eat anything else. They would also eat the Nutro but the petstore that carried the Nutro went out of business. The ProPlan is also inconvenient for me to get store wise.....so usually we do the One.

[Mav226]

Isn't Taste of the Wild a Diamond Product? I remember someone telling me that it was.


Yes, I think it is.

[camohn]

Cute pic of the pup (who eats mostly One) and my daughter at polo.........
http://www.lancasterpolo.org/linked/dogonleash.jpg
we always get comments from the vet on how good her coat looks.

[Gayla]

I believe (with no scientific proof) that the corn in dog food causes joint problems. :lol::lol: If I could figure out a way to package corn and then sell it for the price of meat...wow...would I be rich! :eek:

[LittlePaint]

I feed Solid Gold's bark at the Moon. Its a grainless food... and my 59 lb collie eats 2 cups a day of it.
Nice healthy coat, less poo, lol and more important, NO GRAIN...:yes:
Tara

[monstrpony]

I used Beneful for a long time. Twice, friends recommended some premium brand that I tried, and my Corgi's skin alergies got worse; went back to Beneful, they cleared up. Go figure.

However, recently I tried the Nutro and was pleased; less gas and much less poo volume, and I like that they have glucosamine and chondroitin in them. Alas, that's another 50 miles one way to get, and on the other side of the city from the feed store I go to for the TC for my horses. So, I tried some Purina One lamb and rice, and so far so good. Would love to feed premium brands, but availability and (to lesser extent) price are an issue.

[Nezzy]

science diet has been known to use a lot of CORN as their first ingredient. MANY dogs are allergic to corn, besides it is not the main ingredient of choice. there are many wonderful dog foods out there now. but you won't find them at the grocery store. those foods are horrible. We feed Eagle Pack Holistic Select and also we have used Blue Buffalo. Both are great. There is also Natural Balance, Innova, etc..Good luck.

[txladybug]

I am feeding Diamond Naturals Extreme Athlete and raw meat to my three dogs, a Rott, an APBT and a toy fox terrier who is very difficult to keep weight on. I was intrigued by the Taste of the Wild Products by Diamond so I googled it and ran across this interesting info:

I understand that the quality of the ingredients is very important; but I also think the following data from the Diamond and Pet Food Direct websites is also informative.

Taste of the Wild
$42.99 for 30lbs
Calculated Metabolizable Energy: 3719 kcal/kg

Diamond Naturals Extreme Athlete
$33.99 for 40lbs
Calculated Metabolizable Energy: 4710 kcal/kg

From these I calculated how much metabolizable energy you get for your dollar from each food.

Taste of the Wild: 5,721 kcal/USD
Diamond Naturals Extreme Athlete: 12,220 kcal/USD

Metabolizable energy (ME) is the caloric content in the food, the calories in the food. There is an accepted method to calculate the ME in food based upon the measured items in the food (like protein and fat). ME is how the manufacturer determines it's feeding guidelines. Like humans, dogs will need a certain amount of calories to function based upon their activity level and body weight. What I have done is calculated how much these calories from each food will cost.

For a human example:

There are 69 calories in 4 oz of plain yogurt. The cost of those calories will vary depending upon if you purchase the store brand, Dannon, Yoplait, Stony Field Farms, etc. Also the cost of 69 calories will vary depending upon if you get them from yogurt, cereal, beef, lamb, candy, etc.

[txladybug]

I am also curious about protein. At what point does a dog food have "too much protein" that can harm the liver? Aren't dogs designed to eat meat = protein? Can someone elaborate? Thanks!

[tradewind]

that is a perfect example of the attitude I was writing of earlier

[Simkie]

Geez. You couldn't get me to buy ..or even touch...commercial "dog food" if you dangled a $1,000 bill in front of my face. The crap in that stuff is ... crap.

I feel this way about grocery store pet food and most of what's sold at PetSmart/PetCo, but there IS good commercial dog and cat food on the market, and there has been for at least a decade.

Have you EVER bothered to look at the ingredient list for something like Innova or Innova EVO? It's a completely different animal than your Old Roy or Dog Chow.

I would much rather that an educated nutritionist design my pet's food. I would only attempt it if *I* were a trained nutritionist.

[flshgordon]

I'd really recommend you hit this site: http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/

I wouldn't feed anything you've listed.


OK that website is nothing short of hysterical. They hardly recommend ANY brands of dogfood at all (other than those made without any grain products at all) and they don't like any brands that many VERY GOOD VETS endorse and sell at their own offices for special needs diets. Total hysteria does nothing to further their cause :rolleyes:

[merrygoround]

I'd really recommend you hit this site: http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/

I wouldn't feed anything you've listed.

A quick scan seems to show naught but blurbs from each manufacturer. :lol:

[txladybug]

Can someone who is raw diet person (and I do feed some raw meat, but do not rely on it as 100% of my dogs diet yet) please outline a sustainable feeding program for their dogs? Please do not tell me I have to make puke green smoothies in the blender to make up what is lacking in the "innards" of the prey animal the dogs eat! What kind of real supplement could you feed with the meat and have a balanced diet? What are your sources that back up those claims?

I am not trying to start a debate, I am honestly curious. I feed meat and dogfood. I would like to simplify my feeding program if possible.

Please no flames or arguments, play nice OK?

[Posting Trot]

The Honest Kitchen food that I posted about above is raw, dehydrated food. It's very high quality.

http://www.thehonestkitchen.com (http://www.thehonestkitchen.com/)

[RedMare01]

OK that website is nothing short of hysterical. They hardly recommend ANY brands of dogfood at all (other than those made without any grain products at all) and they don't like any brands that many VERY GOOD VETS endorse and sell at their own offices for special needs diets. Total hysteria does nothing to further their cause :rolleyes:

Perhaps they are endorsing them because they are making $$$ of them? ;)

Caitlin

[tradewind]

AS a matter of fact, I have worked for manufacturers and dog food companies. So please dont tell me to get real, dogs have been my life and profession for over 30 years. If you are satisfied with the way you dogs look and act, then thats what you should do. My dogs also do not have hot spots, diseases, have gorgeous coats etc. They all outlive the lifespan for the breed with the exception of one who at 5 got acute myelcetic luekemia. They have excelled on a national level in all breed show, specialty shows, field trialing, lure coursing, and around the farm as happy healthy dogs.The hostile tone of your post is typical of the new breed of dog or horse owner that feels the only way to do things is their way. I am sorry, I just dont buy that line of thinking. What works for you is terrific, it does not mean that is the only way that works. I know many dogs on raw food diets that do really well, I however am not going to do it, for reasons specific to me and my situation. Civility is something that is a rare commodity today.

[tradewind]

forgot to add that I am a certified pet nutitionalist.

[Petstorejunkie]

Do you have a Petsmart, Petco, or Tractor Supply store near you? Even the local Ace Hardware has better choices than what you described?
What about your local horse feed store? They usually dog foods as well.

[Tiffani B]

Can someone who is raw diet person (and I do feed some raw meat, but do not rely on it as 100% of my dogs diet yet) please outline a sustainable feeding program for their dogs? Please do not tell me I have to make puke green smoothies in the blender to make up what is lacking in the "innards" of the prey animal the dogs eat! What kind of real supplement could you feed with the meat and have a balanced diet? What are your sources that back up those claims?

I am not trying to start a debate, I am honestly curious. I feed meat and dogfood. I would like to simplify my feeding program if possible.

Please no flames or arguments, play nice OK?

I looked at the BARF Diet (http://www.barfworld.com/) (Bones and Raw Food) awhile ago but didn't have a distributor near me. There is a lot of information on the web about feeding your dog "real" food. I think the simplest one I found about was using raw ground turkey, eggs (including shells) and veggies.

[Pat Ness]

This is from 1999 - but has some very useful information in it and is not from a manufacturer.

http://www.iei.net/~ebreeden/kibble.html

I feed Solid Gold and some raw meat to my dogs.

[Mav226]

OK that website is nothing short of hysterical. They hardly recommend ANY brands of dogfood at all (other than those made without any grain products at all) and they don't like any brands that many VERY GOOD VETS endorse and sell at their own offices for special needs diets. Total hysteria does nothing to further their cause :rolleyes:


I respect your opinion, but I think that the problem is that many vets aren't well versed in canine nutrition. Heck, they're in school forever as it is!

My vet, for example, carries Science Diet and (I believe) Iams. Both, in my opinion, are loaded with stuff I don't want my dog eating (corn, byproducts, wheat, and soy--for starters). There are lots of canine nutritionists who have studied nutrition in more depth than the average vet. These nutritionists do NOT stock the same foods at their 'office.' ;)

I think the reason that the website endorses mostly foods without grains is because their researchers believe that grains are not a great thing to have in quantity in a dog's diet. It makes sense that they would only recommend the ones that they believe have the most benefit for the dog.

[Alagirl]

I looked at the BARF Diet (http://www.barfworld.com/) (Bones and Raw Food) awhile ago but didn't have a distributor near me. There is a lot of information on the web about feeding your dog "real" food. I think the simplest one I found about was using raw ground turkey, eggs (including shells) and veggies.

The deal is, you don't need a distributor for this, you go to the regular grocery store, while you do your own shopping.

it's just a little more involved in the preparation than opening a bag of kibble and scooping it out.


I let my dogs have the raw chicken wing tips when we fried chicken up.... they loved it. Got so bad I put hubby on a guild trip when he tossed them in the fryer without cutting them up... :lol::lol::lol: nobody eats the tips anyhow. My Dal was nut for Carrots (coach dog, what can you say) so she got one whenever I peeled any, or the stubs from whatever I was making...


I think there are actual studies out on farm animal nutrition, but pets, it's still largely a hit and miss.

I am still hoping to win the lotto in a big way, starting an in depth study on the matter is up high on my todo list.

[Alice]

FWIW, we switched from Nutro to Orijen, and noticed a difference in both dogs.
(a good difference!)

Also feeding less than we had to feed with the Nutro.

[Larksmom]

When I was growing up, we ALWAYS had dogs. My parents feed the cheapest stuff in the grocery. Dogs never had any problems. When I think back, it was in fcans, so it was probably horsemeat! Cats ate foul smelling cans of probably fish entrails. None were ever sick or sorry. The dogs also got table scraps.
I have had cats forever, and the current dog for 16 years. She has always been apicky eater, but not so bad as her departed buddy. I always used to feed canned food to previous cats, but the current two have eaten dry and always seem to like it. My cats aren't nearly as fussy as the dogs.
I have seen on tv probably the rescue shows were vegans have tried feeding poor animals vegan meals! doesn't work for a carnivore! The stupid commercials for Beneful trying to feed peas to a dog are so off puting to me I won't buy it. I cannot afford the really expensive stuff, but I guess, I can go to butcher, and get bones, and buy liver and stuff. Will they eat raw liver? should I cook it? Eww I don't even eat liver myself. I am at my wits end with the dog, but I am going out today and there is a TS about 10 miles from here. I may go see what they have. Thanks for all the suggestions

[tja789]

AS a matter of fact, I have worked for manufacturers and dog food companies. So please dont tell me to get real, dogs have been my life and profession for over 30 years. If you are satisfied with the way you dogs look and act, then thats what you should do. My dogs also do not have hot spots, diseases, have gorgeous coats etc. They all outlive the lifespan for the breed with the exception of one who at 5 got acute myelcetic luekemia. They have excelled on a national level in all breed show, specialty shows, field trialing, lure coursing, and around the farm as happy healthy dogs.The hostile tone of your post is typical of the new breed of dog or horse owner that feels the only way to do things is their way. I am sorry, I just dont buy that line of thinking. What works for you is terrific, it does not mean that is the only way that works. I know many dogs on raw food diets that do really well, I however am not going to do it, for reasons specific to me and my situation. Civility is something that is a rare commodity today.

I definitely agree with Tradewind. I think the dog food fanatics sound a bit ridiculous when they go on and on about "stunningly beautiful, lush coats, NO medical issues, no hot spots, no illnesses" that they attribute to a particular diet without any real evidence whatsoever that one diet is better than another. My dogs also have stunningly beautiful, lush coats, NO medical issues, no hot spots, and no illnesses. Our last dog lived to be 16 and our current dogs are glowing with good health as they enter their teens. And all on a lifetime diet of a decent commercial kibble.

I have yet to see the solid, unbiased, scientific studies that would convince me that raw diets or extremely expensive "premium" dog foods really cause dogs to be healthier and live longer. A great deal of anecdotal evidence--i.e., the many thousands of dogs that are thriving on commercial food--would suggest that dogs can do very well without raw/premium diets.

[pony89]

I have 6 medium to large sized dogs and I just cant spend the money to feed the super premium foods. Nowadays, a dog food is generally considered GOOD if it has lots of real meat as its main ingredients, and BAD food has things like corn, soybean, wheat, and byproducts. But in reality, I know tons of dogs fed supermarket food that are healthy and long-lived.

The dog that I grew up with was fed who knows what from the bulk food section at the grocery store :lol: By the time I was old enough to have an opinion on these things, the dog was 13, and my mom wouldn't buy any of the brand names because they came in big bags, and she was afraid he would die and leave her with a big bag of leftover food :rolleyes: As my 87 year old grandpa likes to say, "at my age, I don't buy green bananas." He lived to be 17 1/2. I can only imagine how old he might have gotten if we had fed him a higher quality food!! ;)



In all seriousness, though, my current dog eats one of the Hill's Science Diet prescription foods, and we are stuck with that. I'm not too crazy about the first two ingredients being Brewer's rice and corn starch, but it is the standard food for his health problem. It has kept him problem free for almost 4 years, so I am absolutely not going to mess with success on that one. If we get another dog, I have been leaning towards the Blue Buffalo food. I had switched a previous dog to it when he started to have health problems, and he loved it.

[saratoga]

the thing that irritates me about Science Diet is that the ingredients seem to be seriously bad for the price and perceived quality. It seems to have just about the least amount of meat than any other dog food!

It would be interesting if a study could be done comparing the long term health of dogs fed different types of food but I suspect there would be no real difference.

[Guin]

If you feed "real" food to dogs, then you MUST add enzymes to it or you will end up with all sorts of problems.

Another important additive is digestive enzymes which a dog/wolf would get from eating certain internal organs of their prey and which is found in meat by-products in commercial food. http://www.petenzymes.com/ (http://www.petenzymes.com/[/FONT])
You should add enzyme powder to their food with each meal. Cooking it into the food can destroy it.
Most dogs who eat poop are lacking in enzymes and are trying to recycle the enzymes in the poop.)

[pony89]

the thing that irritates me about Science Diet is that the ingredients seem to be seriously bad for the price and perceived quality. It seems to have just about the least amount of meat than any other dog food!

No kidding! My dog's prescription food just went up to $80/30lb bag:eek: And the meat or meat related ingredients in the stuff are pork fat, dried egg product, and chicken liver flavor. Mmmmmm, anyone feeling hungry?

[saratoga]

No kidding! My dog's prescription food just went up to $80/30lb bag:eek: And the meat or meat related ingredients in the stuff are pork fat, dried egg product, and chicken liver flavor. Mmmmmm, anyone feeling hungry?

thats nuts! I cant imagine any justification for that other than they know you feel like you have to feed it since your pet has a problem and the vet recommended it.

To further complicate things, with some of the diseases like diabetes and kidney failure, the most popular theories on the Internet now are that feeding dry grain filled foods are the cause of these problems!

[tradewind]

Thats just it, theories. They may be proven later, but for now, one of the best things for control or management of certain diseases in dogs is nutrient management, which is why the list of ingredients on prescription diets is often bizarre looking to the average owner. The people at Hills provide alternative home cooked meals for dogs on prescription diets for some of the products, such as KD. The bagged version is notoriously unpalatable.You can get them from the company, or my vet has copies if you ask.The cost of these foods in the bagged or canned forms, has gotten a little out of hand though in my opinion.

[dalpal]

OK that website is nothing short of hysterical. They hardly recommend ANY brands of dogfood at all (other than those made without any grain products at all) and they don't like any brands that many VERY GOOD VETS endorse and sell at their own offices for special needs diets. Total hysteria does nothing to further their cause :rolleyes:

Vets recommend what they learned in their 2 WEEK nutrition course, which of course is sponsored by certain dog food companies.

I highly recommend taking the time to research canine, equine, feline nutrition on your own and not rely on your vet.

I personally feed raw....I keep a bag of Taste of the Wild here and use it at times, but I am sold on the raw diet.

[dalpal]

Can someone who is raw diet person (and I do feed some raw meat, but do not rely on it as 100% of my dogs diet yet) please outline a sustainable feeding program for their dogs? Please do not tell me I have to make puke green smoothies in the blender to make up what is lacking in the "innards" of the prey animal the dogs eat! What kind of real supplement could you feed with the meat and have a balanced diet? What are your sources that back up those claims?

I am not trying to start a debate, I am honestly curious. I feed meat and dogfood. I would like to simplify my feeding program if possible.

Please no flames or arguments, play nice OK?


A simple method is to buy premixes such as Sojourner's Mix....add water and then add your meat...ground turkey, chicken, lamb, beef...etc.

And then I give raw meaty bones three times a week...turkey necks, chicken leg quarters mostly.

[dalpal]

The deal is, you don't need a distributor for this, you go to the regular grocery store, while you do your own shopping.

it's just a little more involved in the preparation than opening a bag of kibble and scooping it out.


I let my dogs have the raw chicken wing tips when we fried chicken up.... they loved it. Got so bad I put hubby on a guild trip when he tossed them in the fryer without cutting them up... :lol::lol::lol: nobody eats the tips anyhow. My Dal was nut for Carrots (coach dog, what can you say) so she got one whenever I peeled any, or the stubs from whatever I was making...


I think there are actual studies out on farm animal nutrition, but pets, it's still largely a hit and miss.

I am still hoping to win the lotto in a big way, starting an in depth study on the matter is up high on my todo list.

I must have the only dalmatian who won't touch vegetables/fruit.....all the other dal owners tell me their dals love raw vegetables.

[dalpal]

When I was growing up, we ALWAYS had dogs. My parents feed the cheapest stuff in the grocery. Dogs never had any problems. When I think back, it was in fcans, so it was probably horsemeat! Cats ate foul smelling cans of probably fish entrails. None were ever sick or sorry. The dogs also got table scraps.
I have had cats forever, and the current dog for 16 years. She has always been apicky eater, but not so bad as her departed buddy. I always used to feed canned food to previous cats, but the current two have eaten dry and always seem to like it. My cats aren't nearly as fussy as the dogs.
I have seen on tv probably the rescue shows were vegans have tried feeding poor animals vegan meals! doesn't work for a carnivore! The stupid commercials for Beneful trying to feed peas to a dog are so off puting to me I won't buy it. I cannot afford the really expensive stuff, but I guess, I can go to butcher, and get bones, and buy liver and stuff. Will they eat raw liver? should I cook it? Eww I don't even eat liver myself. I am at my wits end with the dog, but I am going out today and there is a TS about 10 miles from here. I may go see what they have. Thanks for all the suggestions

Liver...depends on your dog. I know most can have it..but with my breed (dalmatians)...they cannot have organ meats...too high in purines and the breed is prone is to Urinary stones/crystals.

Vegan diets do have their place......I was actually told to put my dalmatian on a vegan diet by a vet/breeder......because he is so active...I opted to use low purine meats such as turkey, chicken, lamb instead.

[La Gringa]

If you can find it near you, I would go with California Natural food. It doesn't have all the crap in it, and it's very reasonable for the quality. My dogs love it and are very sensitive to bad ingredients in food.

Purina is totally horrible, and the other brands you listed are not far behind.

For California Natural when you get on the site you can find dealers in your area, here's the link:

http://naturapet.com/brands/california-natural.asp

It is about 40-50 bucks for a big bag. My dogs eat the Chicken/Brown rice formula, their coats are great and they love it.

[La Gringa]

After going to that analysis site that Simkie posted a few months back(thanks Simkie !) i upgraded to a 6 Star dog food. Orijen made in Canada. Im trying to get a local pet store or feed store to carry it but for now im getting it autoshipped from petfooddirect.com

Here is what im using http://www.orijen.ca/orijen/products/adult.aspx

Orijen is great food but like 80 bucks a bag. Too expensive for my blood... :eek:

Innova or California Natural are almost as good and about half that cost.

[Tiffani B]

The deal is, you don't need a distributor for this, you go to the regular grocery store, while you do your own shopping.

it's just a little more involved in the preparation than opening a bag of kibble and scooping it out.

Yea. I did a lot of research online and was going to do my own feeding program similar to BARF but it's a lot of work. And honestly, as healthy as my dog has been, I haven't really seen the need except that I know she'd LOVE it. :winkgrin:

She eats a TON of veggies, along with the good table scraps, and her Innova Senior. She is in beautiful health, has great breath, white teeth (probably from her one-real-bone-a-week bag from the butcher) and wonderful energy. So, I figure why fix something that ain't broken? :)

[Alagirl]

I must have the only dalmatian who won't touch vegetables/fruit.....all the other dal owners tell me their dals love raw vegetables.


LOL, did not read the memo, eh? But is part of their charm, isn't it? They are not like most dogs, not even like most Dals!

[CoopsZippo]

I feed a grain free food. My westie has a proven grain allergy (via blood test). I save big $$ in the vet bill department. Would rather pay the $16 a 5 lbs bag thanks. Heck after 10 bags Petco gives me a free one. :winkgrin: He is healthier along with my Scottie.

Just like with people some dogs just do just fine on regular dog food. Just like there are folks who do just fine on Burger King and fried food. As in people though since medical care care has gotten rid of common illnesses a lot more of our pets are now suffering with allergies and other immune issues since they don't have to deal with the diseases that ran a muck.

When I was a kid, I am 35, there were not the numbers of children with allergies and etc. Heck we don't let our kids get Chicken Pox anymore or the flu. So the body goes looking for things to fight.

[DebbieB]

I feed all my dogs a raw meat and bone prey model diet (picture the proportions of meat, bone, fat and organs of a chicken, goat, rabbit or deer). It's much cheaper than a grain free kibble like Innova or Orijen (if I had to feed kibble it would be a grain free brand). I also gets lots of free meat from friends who clean the freezer burned meat out of their freezers. Deer hunters are also a great source for free meat and bone.

Dogs digest grains very poorly, as an example: we have a farm and occasionally there is some spilled grain that the dogs will eat (corn, wheat, milo), the poop piles have the whole grains still intact, and then they sprout and grow.

Dogs are built to digest raw meat and bone and 50-100 years of domestication and selective breeding does not equip them to digest grain based kibble.

Raw fed dogs will poop about 1/3-1/4 what a kibble fed dog poops.

When I fed average kibble the poop was very stinky, on raw it has very little if any smell. The dogs look great, their teeth are clean, and they love their food.

An excellent website with loads of info on raw feeding as well as a discussion forum is www.leerburg.com .

[Jaegermonster]

I have 12 dogs, mostly large breeds and all rescues in one way or another. I've always fed Purina Dog Chow to my dogs. They are shiny and look great and no problems.
However, lately I have noticed a change in the food, and also their poops are looking "fluffier" (gross, I know). I'm just overall less happy with the food and with the results.
I went to Tractor Supply yesterday and read every label on every food in the place.
I ended up buying a bag of Taste of the Wild prairie formula.
I still have some purina, so I'm going to mix it and switch over, and also measure it as compared to the Purina. If they like it and adjust to it well, if it doesn't end up being too much more expensive I'll stick with it. Hopefully it will be like the premium horse feed my horses get, I can feed less with good results and less poop.

[dalpal]

I have 12 dogs, mostly large breeds and all rescues in one way or another. I've always fed Purina Dog Chow to my dogs. They are shiny and look great and no problems.
However, lately I have noticed a change in the food, and also their poops are looking "fluffier" (gross, I know). I'm just overall less happy with the food and with the results.
I went to Tractor Supply yesterday and read every label on every food in the place.
I ended up buying a bag of Taste of the Wild prairie formula.
I still have some purina, so I'm going to mix it and switch over, and also measure it as compared to the Purina. If they like it and adjust to it well, if it doesn't end up being too much more expensive I'll stick with it. Hopefully it will be like the premium horse feed my horses get, I can feed less with good results and less poop.

Cool.....Just switch over VERY slowly because you are switching to a MUCH richer food.

[Jaegermonster]

I plan to. I haven't opened it yet but I plan to sit down with a bag of each and weigh it, read the feeding instructions etc and start mixing it together to do the switch.
Hopefully it won't be cost prohibitive to feed it to so many dogs, but I think it should be ok since I'm guessing I probably will be feeding less.
the premium horse feed actually made my feed bill decrease when i started feeding it, and i actually had switched from Strategy, which isn't cheap either, so I 'm hoping the TOTW will do that for the dogs.

[bf1]

I recently switched to taste of the wild. My boxer has had issues, a very sensitive stomach, for years. For the first time, she has actually picked up a little weight - she is almost 4 now, and she seems to love the food. She would pick at other foods - to the point where I had to offer her food 5-6 times a day. She still has days where she just won't eat - today being one - and her stomach makes horrible noises, but they are few and far between.

[Jaegermonster]

Did you notice if you fed less of the TOTW as opposed to what you were feeding before?
None of mine have any appetite or digestive issues or anything, and I'm hoping that I may have to feed a little less than what I am feeding of the Purina.
I like the TOTW, but it's expensive so I'm hoping I'll be able to afford it for everybody.

[equineartworks]

I think the simplest answer to the whole dog food question is to feed what is best for YOUR dog. I have studied animal nutrition for many years and have had a gamut of dogs from show to mutt.

What works best for us to cook for my dogs, and they eat food we raise here or that we purchase from a local farm. They are supplemented with a bit of Taste of the Wild Salmon when I am unable to cook for them, but honestly, we eat a well balanced quality menu of foods so feeding them is easy. They look glorious, are in top health, have very little problems with parasites or creepy crawlies. Knowing exactly what they eat and when makes it very easy to pin point potential allergens.

What has not worked for us?

Innova..2 out of 5 dogs looked like crap while eating it and had diminished energy. The other 3 were so-so. Nothing to get excited about.

Wellness...4 out of 5 did good on it. Again, nothing to write home over though.

Nutro...1 out of 5. 3 of them had stomach upsets that didn't resolve.

Eagle Pak...same as the Innova

Merrick, same as the Wellness.

Canidae...4 out of 5, and the one was not trialed because he receives no grains or poultry because of allergies.

Flint River...4 out of 5, same as Canidae.

I have not used grocery store feeds because the ingredients are questionable, BUT! I know many, many people who fed good old Purina to there dogs for 20 years and they always look fabulous.

Take home message...try a whole bunch and see what your pooch does best on. No one else has your dog but you! Have fun with the new dog CONGRATS!

[avezan]

Well, lots of information. My head has been spinning reading labels! But I did finally decide on a brand to try. I just bought a 5lb bag in case it doesn't work out. Wow, was that expensive! Mixing it with the old food, the dog really seems to like it. We'll see how it goes. I went with the Nutro after talking with someone over the weekend who has Aussies and has been feeding it for years and said his vet recommends it too. That was the second Aussie owner that recommended it, so I'll give it a try. The dogfood analysis website was interesting and useful to some extent. I finally found the info I was looking for in the FAQ about who the experts were and how they rated the food. I did look for Taste of the Wild around here and couldn't find it.

So, a few more questions: First, this dog is 50lbs. Should I be looking at a "large breed" formulation? What is the difference?

Next, I would love to supplement with cooked food/table scraps. What meats are best? Are there any I should avoid? Bones? Yes or no? Eggs? Fat from cooking meat? Other people food?

So far, he is not a great eater. He is a bit of a velcro dog. Maybe that will change the longer I have him. He will only eat if I am right with him. He is asleep at my feet right now. I'm hoping he likes this new food well enough that he will eat it right away! :) He is in very good weight, so I'm not really worried. I'll keep an eye on it, though.

Thanks for the very informative discussions.

[DebbieB]

DO NOT feed cooked animal fats in any quantity as dogs can get pancreatis from it. Raw animal fats are fine. Raw fats help put weight on dogs and they use them like we use carbs. Too much fat can cause loose stool.

Raw bones are fine as long as the dog isn't an aggressive chewer with very hard bones (like beef marrow bones), they can chip pieces off of their teeth. Cooked bones can splinter and are more brittle.

Some dog's guts are more sensitive to pork and turkey. Try a little of something to see how your dog reacts before you feed large quantities.

If you feed raw meat and bone do not feed it at the same meal with the kibble as they digest at different rates (kibble much more slowly).

[IrishRydr]

Jaeger, I don't know if this really addresses your question about TOTW, but when I switched up from Eukanuba Large Breed Puppy to Innova Large Breed Puppy for my Irish Wolfhound, I found that the amount that I needed to feed her was cut in half. I would think it would be about the same for TOTW. That is a great food, from what I've been told. Good luck!

[TB or not TB?]

I feed Innova Evo, and have for about 5 years. Before that it was Wellness, but one of the boys had severe food allergy issues and Wellness just wasn't working for him. I did some experiementing with other foods before settling on Innova, and mostly the results were foul and loose stools, vomitting, or diarrhea. (Don't worry, switched over slowly and gave them time to adjust. It was a long process.) They love it and are happy and healthy.

I add about a cup of water and let it soak for about 15 minutes before each meal to aid in digestion, and this has also made a significant difference. Vet recommended that tip and it works well.

I'm open to a lot of brands, but after going through so many allergy issues, I won't touch the "Standard" foods like Iams, Eukanuba, or Science Diet again. I actually worked at Petsmart and would drive to a separate store to buy dogfood. :lol: A vet CAN be a good source of information (my vet initially recommended Wellness even though they didn't stock it), but be aware that they can receive kickbacks from the corporations, so I don't necessarily trust without doing my own research. My father used to raise golden retrievers for field trials and fed Science Diet exclusively on his vet's suggestion, and always had issues like hotspots and stomach stuff popping up. After changing to I think Natural Balance, he no longer has those same problems. I decided that it was worth it financially to spend the extra $ on a pricier dog food than to make even a few extra trips to the vet for small issues like that.

I have heard mixed reviews on the BARF diet. I am waiting until more research comes around. A number of people have linked it with life threatening gastro-intestional problems, including but not limited to penetration or laceration by bone fragments and biological contamination of the meats. A good friend has had to have a bone fragment removed from her dog's stomach on two separate occasions, (she wanted to take him off the diet after the first time, but the vet insisted BARF was the best way. I think the dog is on Flint River right now and doing better and has had no emergency surgeries.) Since there is so little research about the long term effects, I am not going to jump on that bandwagon, though I won't disregard it as a future possibility. Simply the theory of "dogs descended from wolves and therefore should have the same diet" doesn't cut it. I wouldn't put a TB on the same diet as a mustang on the range and expect him to thrive, and he would probably be less far removed from the mustang than my dog is from a wolf.

In the end, you have to decide what is right for yourself. There are extremists for every stance, from BARF enthusiasts to proponents of generic "Dog Food" from the local grocery store, but neither of them live in your household with your dog. There will always be SOMEONE with a success story, even if they feed their dog a scoop of horse grain every day ;) What really convinced me about the no/low grain diets was both the studies and results with my own pets, but also the fact that my 7 y/o looks and acts like he is about 2. Every other dog I have had has always acted his or her age.

[MistyBlue]

Next, I would love to supplement with cooked food/table scraps. What meats are best? Are there any I should avoid? Bones? Yes or no? Eggs? Fat from cooking meat? Other people food?

I wouldn't feed people food too often, but you can mix bits of your own meals in there. Things like rice, vegetables, lean meats. Most carnivores eat more by smell than taste. And the smellier the food, the more they like it...and food smells more if warm. :winkgrin:
I personally feed Purina One. Why? Because I have never in 40 years had a dog have issues with normal commercial feeds as long as they're not the crappiest ones. Vets around here recommend them...even the vets that are nutritionists and sell more expensive foods. And it even works when I have to supplement foods to wildlife in being rehabbed. And if a coyote can stomach it fine and thrive on it...well, can't think of many other "dogs" that eat a more Raw Diet than a coyote. ;)
As for bones...I've always used raw soup bones/marrow bones straight from the grocery store. You can find them in the meat cases where they sell beef. If they don't have any out, just ask the butcher when he's restocking the case. The nice thing is, the local Stop & Shop here cuts bones exactly to order for me, so I get them the size and thickness I want. (came in handy when I had my malamute...the standard cut size he destroyed in 3 seconds) They cost about 99 cents per pound, tons of marrow.

[red mare]

i have a 5 year old Aussie and have been feeding him Blue Buffalo Lamb & Brown Rice for the last 4 years. It's been my experience that Aussies tend to have itchy skin, so when I was switching from puppy to adult food, I knew I wanted something with lamb in it. I also wanted a natural and holistic product. Blue Buffalo fit the bill for us. My dog has a beautiful, shiny coat. He's bright eyed and full of energy. I feed on the low end of the guidelines and he is quite content. He goes about 60 lbs. and a 15lb. bag lasts me about a month. Plus it is readily available in Petsmart and some Petco stores.

[glfprncs]

I feed Blue Buffalo. http://www.bluebuff.com/products/dogs/lp-adult-fish.shtml

I was feeding my dog Pedigree, because it was the only feed that she would eat (barely). She is eating about the same amount of Blue Buffalo, but this she really loves. She is a 55lb high energy lab, and eats about 4 cups per day. It is costing me about $40 a month.


I, too, feed Blue Buffalo. I have two 55 lb. mutts (we say they're multi-cultural canine Americans), but one is a lab mix, the other a terrier/shepherd mix. Both are on the Blue Buffalo (I feed the chicken mix, not the fish), and both get 1/2 cup in the a.m., and 1 cup in the p.m. Both get an hour walk and play with one another throughout the day. They also sleep alot. If they were more active, I'd have to up their food. Both are in excellent weight and excellent health (though the older dog is showing some signs of hip displaysia, but that's nothing that dog food can fix). I pay $38 for a 35 lb. bag of food. Lasts me a little over a month.

Both are very different eaters...T.C. (the older dog who was in the 'pound' for three years) is a food fanatic. He will gobble it as soon as it hits the bowl. He has slowed down in the three years we've had him, but I think those three years of 'fighting for food' has had an impact. The other is much more passive, and was only in the pound for 6 months. He has to be talked into eating at first. He stands and stares at me in the a.m. I have to say out loud, "Louie, eat your breakfast." Then he'll saunter over, lick the bowl, pick a piece out of the bowl, drop it on the ground, eat that, and then eat the rest. He's usually just starting when dog #1 is done. It takes dog #1 about 1-2 minutes to eat, dog #2 about 5. That said, both have never walked away from the food and not eaten it.

[Fairview Horse Center]

Can anyone list feeds to try for aleriges? I chose Blue Buffalo because of the Whitefish and sweet potato for low alergens, but my dog is still having itching problems. She loves the food, and I hate to start again, especially if it could be treats that she is getting from our boarders, or occasionally stealing cat food, but would like to try solve her problem.

[Simkie]

Can anyone list feeds to try for aleriges? I chose Blue Buffalo because of the Whitefish and sweet potato for low alergens, but my dog is still having itching problems. She loves the food, and I hate to start again, especially if it could be treats that she is getting from our boarders, or occasionally stealing cat food, but would like to try solve her problem.

California Natural is an excellent food for allergy animals, and it's my number one choice if I have a dog or cat that's sensitive.

[867-5309]

Another Innova Puppy fan here. A bit more expensive than the puppy Wellness, but I feed less of it- so it's the same $ or a bit less.

[li'l bit]

Can anyone list feeds to try for aleriges? I chose Blue Buffalo because of the Whitefish and sweet potato for low alergens, but my dog is still having itching problems. She loves the food, and I hate to start again, especially if it could be treats that she is getting from our boarders, or occasionally stealing cat food, but would like to try solve her problem.

I have a JUG (JRT/Pug mix:)) that drove me crazy with her itching, so I can imagine how miserable SHE was. After going through several premium brands of dog food expressly advertised as being good for skin problems, I chose to try yet another food, which is Taste of the Wild, Salmon, AND I give her 1/4 teaspoon of MSM twice a day. The itching has stopped, Yay!!!!

I should point out that when I ran out of MSM, I decided to just go with the TOTW without the MSM to help me determine if the MSM was really needed. Within a couple of days she started with the itching and scratching again, so, back on the MSM. So, I'm not even sure the TOTW is necessary. I am just so pleased with how well all four of my dogs are doing on it, coatwise, bright, clear eyes, etc. that I think I will stay with it as long as I can afford it.

I know not every dog is going to respond the same as she did, and I am still waiting to go through the summer and see how well she wards off the hot spots, but so far, she has gotten A LOT of relief from this simple change. So, since MSM is fairly reasonably priced, it might be worth a try, and you might be able to stay with your Blue Buffalo since I can't see why it would cause an allergy.

Good luck, I know how frustrating it is to try to help them.

[bdj]

Can anyone list feeds to try for aleriges? I chose Blue Buffalo because of the Whitefish and sweet potato for low alergens, but my dog is still having itching problems. She loves the food, and I hate to start again, especially if it could be treats that she is getting from our boarders, or occasionally stealing cat food, but would like to try solve her problem.

Not going to get specific with brands, because there are probably several that could fit the bill for many dogs, but you might want to find specific allergens for your dog -
I know a dog that has a sensitivity to rice - he doesn't get itchy, but his digestive tract doesn't handle rice in any form - so he definitely couldn't eat BlueBuffalo whitefish formula - but he'd be OK on the Blue Wilderness or Natural Balance's Sweet Potato & Fish formula.
Another dog I know can't have lamb, so any dog food that has lamb in it is going to make her itch, regardless of whether its a "premium" food or not - it's just the lamb.

I do know that the Natural Balance brand does have a whole line of "Limited Ingredient Diets" that might be useful in narrowing down the field, so to speak.

[ponygirl]

I go btwn Blue Buffalo Wilderness and Orijen. Dog LOVES Orijen but it's hard to get so TOTW is the backup. I have a TALL 80lb very active cat/husky mix. Anyway, Orijen is apparently a 6* food and I'm pleased as punch with it. Could be another option as well.

[Mav226]

Can anyone list feeds to try for aleriges? I chose Blue Buffalo because of the Whitefish and sweet potato for low alergens, but my dog is still having itching problems. She loves the food, and I hate to start again, especially if it could be treats that she is getting from our boarders, or occasionally stealing cat food, but would like to try solve her problem.

I can't recommend dog foods without knowing what the dog is allergic to, but I can highly, highly, highly recommend Spot Allergy Testing through Spectrum Labs. It's a blood test that looks for food allergies, outdoor and indoor allergens, allergies to mold, mildew, weeds, trees, etc.

The test is around $200 and comes with a booklet outlining your dog's allergies and which specific foods/brands he can eat. It has been a LIFESAVER!

Also, there were tons of things I didn't realize my dog was allergic to (i.e. peas) that I never would have guessed on my own.

Their website is crappy, but the product is wonderful! http://www.vetallergy.com/petowners.php

Tell your vet you want the test done! We are itch free for almost 6 months :)

[wendy]

there is amazingly little solid research out there on dog diets. I would be quite scared to feed just one brand of dry food for the entire life of the dog with no fresh foods to supplement it. There were a few studies done showing dogs fed dry diets with less than 30% protein had tendencies towards a number of common doggy problems like ACL tears, arthritis, etc. things you'd never think were linked to diet. And the study of Iams puppy food was flat-out terrifying. They fed one batch of puppies the so-called "complete and balanced" puppy food and the other batch got the same diet supplemented with fresh fish oils. At age six months the dogs fed on the kibble by itself were tested and found to be hyperactive and dramatically slow to learn in comparison to the supplemented puppies. And they used to think senior dogs did better on low protein diets, but new research has reversed this thinking, senior dogs need more protein than adult dogs. Ditto thinking that higher protein caused kidney disease- new research says no.

[etc.]

I have had many dogs who have had problems with corn in the food. Even many of the lamb and rice dog foods have corn meal! I now use the Petsmart brand, Authentic, lamb and rice. There's no corn; my dogs love it, and have done quite well on it.

[Petstorejunkie]

Can anyone list feeds to try for aleriges? I chose Blue Buffalo because of the Whitefish and sweet potato for low alergens, but my dog is still having itching problems. She loves the food, and I hate to start again, especially if it could be treats that she is getting from our boarders, or occasionally stealing cat food, but would like to try solve her problem.
I think you hit the nail on the head of why she's still having issues. When you have a pet (or a child for that matter) with allergies, you have to be more protective of what they eat. My dog is very allergic to wheat, and no one is allowed to give her treats because of it. For the barn you may want to buy dog treats along the same nutritional lines as the Blue Buffalo food (no corn, wheat, or soy) and keep them at the barn so folks can give her treats. Tell people she's on a special diet and you have to be very careful.
As to sneaking cat food, we solved that issue by getting cat food that doesnt have corn, wheat, or soy in it ;) I am guessing she's stealing cat food from the barn cats that are eating grocery food right?
If that's the case, it's hard to ask the barn to change the barn cats diet for your burglar of a dog, so see if they'll let you put it up high when your dog is around.

[Fairview Horse Center]

Actually the barn cats are eating Meow Mix and a variety of canned, depending on what the boarders buy.

Unfortunately, my dog can sneak thru a tiny cat door, but she really is not a big fan of the cat food. She is super picky, even about people food, which is why it is so nice to finally find a food she likes.

Apparently beef, chicken, and eggs are also high on the likely alergens, so I guess I just go one step at a time, trying different ingredients.

[Trixie]

I'd like to switch my dog over to the taste of the wild from his previous low-calorie food, however, he's presently still a bit portly and I'd like to get his weight down some. Would it be okay to slowly switch to the TOTW, feed a little less than their recommended amounts, and supplement with some green beans as suggested on another thread? TOTW doesn't seem to have a weight loss formula.

[Simkie]

I'd like to switch my dog over to the taste of the wild from his previous low-calorie food, however, he's presently still a bit portly and I'd like to get his weight down some. Would it be okay to slowly switch to the TOTW, feed a little less than their recommended amounts, and supplement with some green beans as suggested on another thread? TOTW doesn't seem to have a weight loss formula.

Yes.

And something I've found, when switching to a higher-quality food: if you're going from a grain rich food to a grain free, your dog will slim down, even if you don't decrease the amount. Feeding dogs (and cats, too) something that's grain based always seems to lead to obesity, no matter how little they get.

[bf1]

I was at the vet's yesterday - mentioned that I was happy my boxer finally put on a few pounds - I just switched to Taste of the Wild. She asked ME about different foods. I think most vets are clueless about most choices! She actually wrote it down...., had never heard of it.

[wendy]

TOTW doesn't seem to have a weight loss formula.

TOTW is actually resonably low-calorie per cup, look it up and compare it to your current food. Most "weight loss formulas" are a joke- carb-heavy junk that encourages dogs to lose muscle and replace it with fat. A lot of dogs seem to turn carbs directly into body fat, and switching them to a lower carbohydrate/higher protein formula (assuming the calories are adjusted for) causes loss of body fat while building muscle. Wellness CORE reduced fat has 350 kcal/cup and is 30% protein. Premium Edge weight loss formula is 347 kcal/cup and is 44% protein. TOTW prairie is 32% protein and has 370 kcal/cup. Nutro Lite, a typical "weight loss" formula, is only 17% protein (bye-bye dog muscles) and is 225 kcal/cup. So if you were feeding 3 cups of Nutro lite a day, if you switch to TOTW prairie to get the same amount of kcal with better protein/carb profile you'd feed 1.8 cups a day. Add green beans if you feel the need to bulk up the diet. You'll probably save money, too, buying kibble less often for the same kcal per day, and your dog will probably be healthier and look better and have more energy (all dogs are individuals and results may vary).

[avezan]

So I am the process of switching my dog over to Natural Choice Lamb and Rice and I am noticing that he is scratching a lot. At first I thought it might be fleas, but he was treated at the shelter before he left (2.5 weeks ago) and I treated him again with something different this weekend. My question is, how soon would the itching start if he were allergic to something in the new food? The scratching started about the same time I started to switch over, so I'm not sure if it is due to the food or not. I did have him groomed and bathed the day after I got him and the groomer said she used a very soothing shampoo. He did have 2 hot spots when I got him. So I'm wondering how fast the itching would start if he were allergic to something in the new food, and how long it would take to STOP if he is still reacting to something from his previous (non-constant, who knows what he was eating before) diet.

Next, I have been very intrigued by the Taste of the Wild dog food. The closest retailer is 35 miles to the south and 50 miles to the north (and I live in a valley, so no east or west!). I sent them an inquiry by e-mail and the automated response I got back was from diamondpet.com. so, do you know what the relationship is with TOTW and Diamond dog food? There is a distributor for Diamond very close to here (where my feed store gets their food) so I'm wondering if they are related if they can get the dog food closer to me though one of the diamond retailers? Just curious if anyone knew. Also in TOTW's FAQ they mention/recommend a Diamond product.

[Bedrock]

LOVE LOVE COSTCO DOG FOOD NO Soy Corn or Wheat, my dogs do great on it. it has cranberries and all the good stuff. reasonably priced
anyone else use it?

[SonnysMom]

I had been feeding Purina for years. I just switched my 2 dogs to Canidae. About halfway through the second month of feeding it I have noticed that my black Heinz 57 dog no longer has dandruff, smells better and no longer leaves oils on my hands when I pet her. I also feed less. She is a picky dog but really likes it.

[Alagirl]

So I am the process of switching my dog over to Natural Choice Lamb and Rice and I am noticing that he is scratching a lot. At first I thought it might be fleas, but he was treated at the shelter before he left (2.5 weeks ago) and I treated him again with something different this weekend. My question is, how soon would the itching start if he were allergic to something in the new food? The scratching started about the same time I started to switch over, so I'm not sure if it is due to the food or not. I did have him groomed and bathed the day after I got him and the groomer said she used a very soothing shampoo. He did have 2 hot spots when I got him. So I'm wondering how fast the itching would start if he were allergic to something in the new food, and how long it would take to STOP if he is still reacting to something from his previous (non-constant, who knows what he was eating before) diet.


from personal experience fool allergies take about a week to manifest themselves. But they can take a lot longer to clear up.

compare labels, of the old food and the new to eliminate possibles. It could very well be a different problem. flea bites etc. My Beagle mutt was very much allergic to fleas (I am guessing, didn't test) she would scrape her fur off on the back the instance you forgot to get Frontline or Antvantix on her. She came to us a tiny handful of pup, half of it fleas!

You can give him some benadril and see if the allergy clears up.

[Mav226]

So I'm wondering how fast the itching would start if he were allergic to something in the new food, and how long it would take to STOP if he is still reacting to something from his previous (non-constant, who knows what he was eating before) diet.

Dogs can start itching from an allergen within a few hours. The itching from that same allergen can last 2+ weeks even if exposure is limited after that. Also, since Spring is now in full bloom--don't discount the fact that your boy may have outdoor plant based allergies. The best way to know this is to get him tested by your vet.

I would give it at least 3 weeks to see if the itching subsides. If it doesn't, try another dog food. FYI, the most common food allergies in dogs are: corn, beef, chicken (and turkey), wheat, soy, and dairy. Before we had the blood allergy test done, my vet suggested removing all of these from the diet first to see if we could get the allergy under control. Unfortunately, the allergies we were dealing with were problems other than the above ingredients, so we had to go with the blood test.

Next, I have been very intrigued by the Taste of the Wild dog food. so, do you know what the relationship is with TOTW and Diamond dog food?


TOTW is a Diamond product. It is possible your feed store may be able to get it in if they carry Diamond foods.

[Boomer]

I've used a variety of foods:

My epileptic aussie shepherd is on Wellness Core Reduced Fat (grain-free). She also gets some wet food with it at night. She has been on The Honest Kitchen (expensive but did have a grain-free formula).

The farm mutts get Diamond or Exclusive.

My angel GSD-mix had food allergies and she got Wellness Fish & Sweet Potato. She was allergic to nearly everything out there - lamb, rice, carrots, corn, soy, wheat, beef.....

I try to buy as "healthy" (no by-prods) kibble that my pocket book allows - unless the animal is special needs (the aussie, the GSD) then I've just got to suck it up and make it happen.

Try finding a "healthy" special needs cat food - now there's a real toughie.:no:

[SecondEdition]

Eagle Pack!!! A wonderful company and more economical to feed than a lot of the premium brands.


Also, check out the "Articles" section at www.greenacreskennel.com. Most of what I have learned about dog nutrition comes from there. They really know their stuff. Here is an excerpt from their website:

"Criteria for Selecting A Pet Food


Only you can decide what to feed your pet. Listed below are our criteria for selecting a pet food.
A superior source of animal protein such as whole fresh meats (chicken, lamb, etc.) or single-source meat meals (chicken meal, pork meal, lamb meal, etc.). An ingredient listed as Meat and July 2, 2008le-meat source such as chicken or chicken meal as the first ingredient. Two or three meat sources are even better, as they provide a broader amino acid profile.
Meat sources that are free of antibiotics and added hormones.
Single source fats such as chicken fat. Animal fat or animal digest is unacceptable.
Whole, unprocessed grains and vegetables such as ground whole corn or ground whole brown rice. The more a food is processed, the less nutrition it contains.
Grain sources that are free of pesticides and herbicides.
Supplementation with digestive enzymes and pre and probiotics to aid in digestion and optimal utilization of nutrients.
Use of natural preservatives and packaging that helps preserve the food. We do not recommend foods that use artificial preservatives such as Ethoxyquin, BHA or BHT.
A method of food processing that will maximize the nutrition in the food.
No use of food fragments. Food fragments are when a manufacture will break a single ingredient down into several descriptions on the food label. For example, rice may appear three times on the label as brewer’s rice, rice flour, and rice bran. Manufacturers that do this are trying to make rice appear lower on the ingredient list. If rice were just listed once it would probably be the predominant ingredient in the food and would have to appear at the top of the label.
No use of meat by-products. Meat by-products are in inferior source of protein.
No unnecessary content from artificial colors, propylene glycol and sweeteners such as corn syrup, and sucrose. These ingredients add nothing to a foods nutritional value and may even be harmful.
Full disclosure by the manufacturer so a person can calculate the true feeding cost of a food. If a manufacturer will not reveal food density and kCal/cup, what else are they hiding?
Compliance with AAFCO Nutritional Adequacy Statement. While this only insures minimal nutrition, a food without this statement may not even meet minimal requirements. "
-source: www.greenacreskennel.com

And no I don't work there! I was a happy customer when I lived in the area:)

[Petstorejunkie]

Try finding a "healthy" special needs cat food - now there's a real toughie.:no:

Actually alot of the healthy dog food companies make cat food too
Blue Buffalo
Solid Gold
California Natural
Innova
Wellness
TOTW
etc...