Anyone adopted from TB Friends in CA?

[cu.at.x]

So I've checked out all the local rescues, as well as the usual classifieds websites/Craigslist, but have yet to find my dream horse. I prefer to adopt because I want to support groups that rescue, but if I find my dream horse from an individual I'm fine with that too. I'm looking for my forever horse, so I'm *very* picky. For some reason, I am drawn to TB Friends, out of California. I know they're about 800 miles from me, but I've read about them on the Fugly blog and other places and Joe seems like such a lovely person. Does anyone have experience adopting from them? I suppose I could plan a road trip to California this spring--I am so sick of the cold/wet weather anyway!

[mew]

They are beyond wonderful, Joe is an amazing guy who does his best to make sure it is the best fit possible for both you and the horse. However he does require one of his people to check out your animals to make sure they are healthy but i believe he has some one who can do that up in washington. Deff give him a call

[mjrtango93]

I read Joe's blog daily pretty much and know of a couple people that have adopted from him and been happy with the experience and like the horses. He is very honest about what may or may not be wrong with them, but he will not let you vet them. Pretty much why I have skipped him over.

[blazn]

I'd love to visit TB Friends; in fact, I almost went last spring although it's at least 800 miles from here. But everything is a long way from here. And I can't take on another horse right now. Still, it would be wonderful to see all those TBs at once and inspirational to meet the people rescuing them.

cu.at.x, let me know if you need a road trip companion. I'm pretty sick of the weather here too.

[Mrs. Cowboy]

I haven't adopted from him, but I have hauled for him, and I'm part of the yahoo group Friends of TB Friends. Join them if you want to help out Joe in other ways.

I highly recommend Joe's horses. He's honest about what they do or don't know, and he seems to be about matching up horses and homes.

And I could be convinced to haul to WA this summer for a pretty low (fuel only) price. :) I like road trips, and could always use an excuse to get out of town. I'm about 1/2 an hour from Joe.

PLUS - don't forget Joe has access to a TON of foreclosure horses, so if you're looking for a QH or Warmblood or other breed - ask Joe if he knows of one. He just might have your dream horse waiting for you!

[cu.at.x]

I haven't adopted from him, but I have hauled for him, and I'm part of the yahoo group Friends of TB Friends. Join them if you want to help out Joe in other ways.

I highly recommend Joe's horses. He's honest about what they do or don't know, and he seems to be about matching up horses and homes.

And I could be convinced to haul to WA this summer for a pretty low (fuel only) price. :) I like road trips, and could always use an excuse to get out of town. I'm about 1/2 an hour from Joe.

PLUS - don't forget Joe has access to a TON of foreclosure horses, so if you're looking for a QH or Warmblood or other breed - ask Joe if he knows of one. He just might have your dream horse waiting for you!

Wow, cool!

[tradewind]

Joe is wonderful and has a very good reputation among donors, adopters etc. He also accepts horses from ranchs that are closing, people who are losing there homes, as well as horses from feed lots. He does amazing work every day.

[TB or not TB?]

Why can't you vet them? Just out of curiosity.

[mew]

The horses from his ranch you can. . . I believe. The foreclosure horses I believe the deal is the horses have to be moved *that* day most the time and there is simply not the time to set it all up. And why you cannot see the horse before hand is most of these owners are embarrassed about the situation and don't want to have to admit to random strangers their financial situation.

[FatPalomino]

TB Friends is NOT 501c3, so donations are not tax deductible.

ETA: Deleting original post... if folks do not want accountability, to know where their money is going, and a proper tax write off for a "rescue"... it is not my decision! Sorry for trying to show the difference between a 501c3, NON PROFIT rescue and a private organization.

[tradewind]

The fact that Joe is not a 5013c does not mean that his rescue work is not as worthwhile or aboveboard. It may be simply, as alot of people who do rescue decided the paperwork etc is not something that they want to fool with. Not saying I agree with that, but I do not neccessarily disagree either. Joe has good reputation within the rescue community. He will take in horses with injuries that most wont fool with and if needed he keeps them as lifetime horses.

[FatPalomino]

The fact that Joe is not a 5013c does not mean that his rescue work is not as worthwhile or aboveboard. It may be simply, as alot of people who do rescue decided the paperwork etc is not something that they want to fool with.

Agreed that 501c3 does not mean good, bad, or indifferent. There are bad 501c3's and good private organizations.


Just to clarify: 501c3 status is, however, required for a tax write off, which is a big plus for many people. The board member are declaring the organization as a non for profit, versus someone who is not 501c3 and can legally do anything, including use for personal expenses, money brought in. 501c3 rescues must make their financial documents available to any individual upon request... something a private business owner is not required to do. This holds 501c3 to a certain amount of accountability.

IMHO, the 501c3 paperwork was not challenging.

[SuperSTB]

TB Friends is NOT 501c3, so donations are not tax deductible.

My friend Caroline started this rescue, which IS 501c3 therefore donations ARE tax deductible and they are truly non-for profit.
http://www.sctbrescue.org/adoptablethoroughbreds.htm

She is brilliant (has a PhD) and stunning with horses. She has a lot of help, and is taking a lot of horses that need assistance. She has a professional trainer working with the horses and I am sure she would not only allow you to do a vet check but encourage it. She has a vet that works closely with her organization, also.

I saw Hasty when she first purchased him, and he is *amazing*. Super sane, super sound, nothing wrong with him. 2 days post-auction, when we turned him out in an arena, he was checking out all the jumps and nothing phased him. Actually, here is one of those first pictures:
http://www.sctbrescue.org/apps/photos/photo?photoid=1709764
We couldn't spook him. He has been in pro training for a long time now and is going well over fences and super bold. He made me drool... These photos do him no justice.
http://www.sctbrescue.org/hastyspage.htm

We Will Prevail also looks stunning.

Caroline is new Norco and I am not sure where Hasty was. When I was there, he was in QT in Apple Valley.


I second Caroline! She is on COTH occasionally too. We have a gelding that we adopted through her. She is above par in everyway.

[Beezer]

While I truly admire people who do rescue work on whatever level they can do well, I kinda take exception to a horse being offered for "adoption" at $5,000. That's a sale price, and one that shouldn't come with all the restrictions that So Cal TB Rescue puts into its contracts. I **understand** why those restrictions are there, and I **know** that rescues need to cover expenses, but $5,000? I can find close to 100 horses of similar quality with as much or more training for that or less of a price, not to mention that I could go through CANTER and get several for the same amount of money. And they don't come with restrictions.

And, yes, I am very, very familiar with prices of horses in Southern California and Norco in particular. ;)

Now, some of the other horses at SCTB have far more realistic adoption fees and would be worth a look for someone wanting a project. :yes: But I have to admit that when I first saw the price hung on Hasty a couple of months ago, it turned me off; again, that's a resale she's got there, not an "adoption." NOT that there's anything wrong with making money off a resale project (that's a goal of pretty much all of us), but it should be called what it is.

FatPalomino, I've never gotten a horse from Joe, but not because he doesn't have nonprofit status. I do, however, think that it was in rather poor taste of you to come in on a thread about another group and basically pimp for a friend of yours and diss another person's efforts. Not cool. :no:

[Crooked Horse]

Agreed that 501c3 does not mean good, bad, or indifferent. There are bad 501c3's and good private organizations.


Just to clarify: 501c3 status is, however, required for a tax write off, which is a big plus for many people. The board member are declaring the organization as a non for profit, versus someone who is not 501c3 and can legally do anything, including use for personal expenses, money brought in. 501c3 rescues must make their financial documents available to any individual upon request... something a private business owner is not required to do. This holds 501c3 to a certain amount of accountability.

IMHO, the 501c3 paperwork was not challenging. Yes, it is time consuming, but I did all of our myself with the guidance of others. So. CA TB Rescue was able to receive their declaration from the IRS very quickly. Now, documenting that money donated to the rescue was always used for rescue related purposes may be "something that they don't want to fool with."


I sincerely hope that you are not intending in any way to suggest that Joe is less than 100% stand-up. He and his wife go without in order to put the horses first. The horses on their own property as well as the horses of others. Every single donation that comes in goes to the horses. Everyone that knows him knows this to be true. He doesn't need to "prove it" on paper.

Perhaps you were speaking generally about for-profits vs. non-profits. At least I hope that's the case.

[tradewind]

Your isnuation that he is somehow he is pilfering money because he might not want to fool with documention is really crummy on your part. There are many reputable rescuers that are simply not 5013cs. They just prefer to do things the way that they want to and that is not neccessarily a sign of evil doing. Some of the most horrendous stuff I have been made aware of on various rescue threads have occured at 5013cs. Some of them quite recently. That status is a tax status not a seal of approval for quiality care, upright behavior, or honest representation of the horses they offer for adoption.

[tkhawk]

I have never met him. But I used to live up in N CA and heard a lot about him-never anything bad. Heard only good things. Sorry- that is all I know!

[costco_muffins]

I stopped by Joe's place on my way through California last fall. I handed him an old saddle of mine and told him to give it to someone that needed it, he took it and thanked me. Then he pulled our truck out of the mud (SO did a bad job of trying to park on a soft shoulder). He seemed like a really good guy; I got good vibes from him. I would look to him for a horse if Crusader hadn't just fallen into our laps :)

[cu.at.x]

Thank you all for the great feedback. You confirmed what I read about TB Friends from other sources. I will be contacting Joe soon; hopefully you guys will be reading another ecstatic "new horse" thread very soon, from me. :)

[fourmares]

cu.at.x - call Joe, don't email... and be realy for him to be in a rush, or too busy right now. Be ready to call several times if necessary. Also if you go look at a horse at his place and you like it don't expect to be able to take your time deciding. (or if you do, be prepared for the fact that someone might come along and buy the horse that you were looking at.) It isn't that Joe doesn't want to let you take all the time in the world, it's just that the sooner horse A finds a home moves out the sooner he has room for horse Z. He'd rather upset you than have horse Z ship to slaughter while he waits for you to decide on horse A. Another thing to be ready for... he doesn't really have an arena, although now he does have a large pen that people can ride in. It isn't like looking at horses at a normal sale barn. He will let you vet check the horses that are at the farm (there are enough vets in the area that you ought to be able to get an appointment within 24 hours.)... the ranch foreclosure horses, however, you have to take sight unseen...

[SuperSTB]

Your isnuation that he is somehow he is pilfering money because he might not want to fool with documention is really crummy on your part. There are many reputable rescuers that are simply not 5013cs. They just prefer to do things the way that they want to and that is not neccessarily a sign of evil doing. Some of the most horrendous stuff I have been made aware of on various rescue threads have occured at 5013cs. Some of them quite recently. That status is a tax status not a seal of approval for quiality care, upright behavior, or honest representation of the horses they offer for adoption.

A wee bit over reactive here...

I can't speak for FP- because I don't know her but I did not get that impression from her post at all. She merely brought up a valid point about non-profits. In general people just do not understad what is or is not a non-profit and knowing can and does make a difference to some people. Op asked about the rescue and well she got a response.

501c3 is not a graded assessment to the quality of a rescue you are right, but if one *prefers* to deal with a 501c3, there are some good ones out there and FP mentioned one.

[SuperSTB]

While I truly admire people who do rescue work on whatever level they can do well, I kinda take exception to a horse being offered for "adoption" at $5,000. That's a sale price, and one that shouldn't come with all the restrictions that So Cal TB Rescue puts into its contracts. I **understand** why those restrictions are there, and I **know** that rescues need to cover expenses, but $5,000? I can find close to 100 horses of similar quality with as much or more training for that or less of a price, not to mention that I could go through CANTER and get several for the same amount of money. And they don't come with restrictions.

Caroline might not have had much say in the adoption price either- we don't know unless your sitting on the BOD. Could be a ton of different scenerios factoring into it.

FatPalomino, I've never gotten a horse from Joe, but not because he doesn't have nonprofit status. I do, however, think that it was in rather poor taste of you to come in on a thread about another group and basically pimp for a friend of yours and diss another person's efforts. Not cool. :no:

however just a flip side opinion that could apply to anyone really... I didn't get the perception she was pimping a friend's rescue. Rather pointing out a that *if* non profit status mattered to OP... then here's an alternative... which I second as a good place.

[tradewind]

The one part of her post that said perhaps because he did not want to fool with the monetary documentation part of the paperwork was clearly designed to imply that he was not being upfront with the money. FP is not a dumb person and I believe she was trying to undermine another rescue in favor of one she personally favors, which was not the question the OP asked. Both of the rescues I have fostered for have been 5013c so I dont prefer one over the other. On the other hand, I have taken in some on my own, and I am not. I did the same quality of work either way.

[FatPalomino]

The fact that Joe is not a 5013c does not mean that his rescue work is not as worthwhile or aboveboard. It may be simply, as alot of people who do rescue decided the paperwork etc is not something that they want to fool with.

Tradewind... I was quoting you :)

I was just clarifying the difference between 501c3 and providing a reference to an organization dealing with TB's in that area that can offer a tax deductible donation.. This time of year (tax season), it is a BIG deal to a lot of people.

[tradewind]

yes FP, but in your reply to me, you cleary stated that perhaps it was the documentation of money's received was the part that he did not want to fool with as you did not find the paperwork overly challenging. The OP had made no inquiry as to tax status, that was you.

[tradewind]

I believe it was the last sentence of post 12. I am not good at cutting and pasting on this board.

[onthebit]

While I truly admire people who do rescue work on whatever level they can do well, I kinda take exception to a horse being offered for "adoption" at $5,000. That's a sale price, and one that shouldn't come with all the restrictions that So Cal TB Rescue puts into its contracts. I **understand** why those restrictions are there, and I **know** that rescues need to cover expenses, but $5,000? I can find close to 100 horses of similar quality with as much or more training for that or less of a price, not to mention that I could go through CANTER and get several for the same amount of money. And they don't come with restrictions.

And, yes, I am very, very familiar with prices of horses in Southern California and Norco in particular. ;)

Now, some of the other horses at SCTB have far more realistic adoption fees and would be worth a look for someone wanting a project. :yes: But I have to admit that when I first saw the price hung on Hasty a couple of months ago, it turned me off; again, that's a resale she's got there, not an "adoption." NOT that there's anything wrong with making money off a resale project (that's a goal of pretty much all of us), but it should be called what it is.

FatPalomino, I've never gotten a horse from Joe, but not because he doesn't have nonprofit status. I do, however, think that it was in rather poor taste of you to come in on a thread about another group and basically pimp for a friend of yours and diss another person's efforts. Not cool. :no:

Good post, and it would also appear to me that FatPalomino was definitely making implications of potential impropriety with money and undermining one rescue as she clearly favors another one. As Beezer put it, not cool.

[poltroon]

501 c3 status is only relevant if you are donating money, not adopting/buying a horse. Even though you may be giving the rescue money, you're getting a horse in exchange, so that's not a tax-deductible event.

[FatPalomino]

501 c3 status is only relevant if you are donating money, not adopting/buying a horse. Even though you may be giving the rescue money, you're getting a horse in exchange, so that's not a tax-deductible event.

Unless the rescue keeps some form of ownership. Although, a proper tax representative should be the one who should address these questions.

The OP was saying she was very picky and looking for something very special, and the horse I mentioned immediately came to mind.

ETA: Deleting original post... if folks do not want accountability, to know where their money is going, and a proper tax write off for a "rescue"... it is not my decision! Sorry for trying to show the difference between a 501c3, NON PROFIT rescue and a private organization.

[poltroon]

Unless the rescue keeps some form of ownership. Although, a proper tax representative should be the one who should address these questions.

The OP was saying she was very picky and looking for something very special, and the horse I mentioned immediately came to mind.

ETA: Deleting original post... if folks do not want accountability, to know where their money is going, and a proper tax write off for a "rescue"... it is not my decision! Sorry for trying to show the difference between a 501c3, NON PROFIT rescue and a private organization.

As far as I'm concerned, if you're purchasing a horse, the tax status isn't relevant. At rescue prices (< $1000), it's pretty clear that the money goes into feeding and housing the horses... and you don't get a tax deduction. If you're donating money, then tax status is more of an issue.

And even if the rescue kept rights to the horse (I won't do that kind of arrangement, but some will), I'm not sure how their tax status is in the picture. You still can't deduct your 'adoption' fee, even if it is a 501c3. You're paying for a service, not making a donation.

[Beezer]

Unless the rescue keeps some form of ownership. Although, a proper tax representative should be the one who should address these questions.

The OP was saying she was very picky and looking for something very special, and the horse I mentioned immediately came to mind.

ETA: Deleting original post... if folks do not want accountability, to know where their money is going, and a proper tax write off for a "rescue"... it is not my decision! Sorry for trying to show the difference between a 501c3, NON PROFIT rescue and a private organization.

You're still missing the elephant in the room. The OP wasn't asking about TBFriends' nonprofit status because she wanted to make a donation to him and was that good or bad; or whether Joe or anyone else walked on water; or whether his or your pal's corrals smelled better. She WAS, however, asking about anyone's dealings with him in BUYING A HORSE.

You arrived to diss Joe and talk up your friend who happens to run a nonprofit rescue -- totally different animal. And again, if the OP wanted to pay $5,000 for a horse that comes with myriad restrictions on its future use, and was concerned about whether that "adoption" fee was tax-deductible, then maybe your points might have been germaine. But I fail to see any of those points or concerns in the OP's post.

The OP was interested in BUYING a horse, not ADOPTING one, particularly one that costs $5,000 and can't be resold without "permission." Surely you can see the difference??