Bone Chip?

[allswift]

I'm about to go crazy! I've been horse shopping with my student. We looked at a wide variety of very nice horses, and a few greenies/projects. She ended up really liking & feeling safe on quite the project horse. Hasn't been ridden in two years. It was hard to get a sense of what she could do, although even not being ridden in that long (and not jumped in 4 years), she happily popped a very strange looking X-rail and attempted some basic lateral work and a canter for a few seconds before pooping out (as expected - poor mare!). Was extremely willing and had good gaits, so we're giving her a go.

The vet exam went well, with the only real issue being that she has an OCD chip in her RF ankle. It appears to be pretty old, very rounded edges, calcified. Hasn't caused any problems yet. Was totally sound on it when she was being ridden (according to owners in her past), and was doing approx. 1st level dressage and jumping 2'6" from about 3 - 4 until she was about 6. Didn't react to the chip at all, and in fact we had no idea it was there until we xrayed. If we hadn't done front ankles, we'd still be clueless and would be getting the horse, no questions asked!

The current owner is extremely negotiable on price (almost to the point of giving away due to a nasty divorce..), so we're considering doing the surgery and getting the mare. Since she hasn't been ridden in two years, we'll need to spend significant time getting her conditioned anyway, may as well get the chip out and rehab/condition on the same schedule.

I have not had a ton of experience with chips before. I've read mostly great things and a few not so great things about prognosis after getting a chip removed. Is anyone eventing a horse that had a chip removed? How's it going? We'd like this mare to go through Training if all goes well. My student mostly wants to enjoy her horse, and doesn't need to 'climb the level ladder' to the top..

Also, I've been quoted quite a few different prices for this surgery. Can anyone give me an idea of what their costs were? What's the early recovery like (do they come home quickly, how long in a stall, on meds, etc. )


This is about as far away from the horse I want to be recommending that they buy as we could get, but the mare really is quite nice conformation wise, temperament, gaits, willingness... and my student is willing and happy to have a rehab project. I'm just thinking.. what am I doing allowing them to proceed with a horse that needs surgery and rehab right out the gate, for a career in eventing???



Make me feel better or tell me I'm crazy and should stop this madness now...

[luise]

why get the chip removed if it's not bothering her?

[purplnurpl]

I just recently read an article about one of the Advanced event horses having to take sometime off because he chipped his navicular bone!

I know nothing. But I bet negative prognosis comes from when the horse is showing fluid or lameness. Then you HOPE they come back.

But with one that is sound already?
It is hard to know--why was she turned out in the first place?

I'd have a heart to heart with my vet about it. : )

[allswift]

The consensus of the vets that I've talked to about it was that since she needs rehab time anyway, and they can afford to do it, might as well take it out while it isn't bothering her, rather then letting it cause secondary problems before addressing the issue. Could be it never bothers her, but they've stressed repeatedly that it's such a straightforward surgery that there's not reason not to do it.

Now I'm asking you guys because maybe that's not the whole picture.

But you're right, if she was in regular work and fit and showing now, and it wasn't bothering her, I wouldn't worry about taking it out right now either.

As for why she was turned out last two years, the owner had to quit boarding her two horses due to lost income, and brought them home, where she has a small pasture and no facilities to ride. So 'riding' has been limited to bareback jaunts around the paddock. I've been lucky enough to talk to 3 people other then this owner who've known the horse over the years, and all said she was sound when they knew her.

[RioTex]

Having had more than one sound horse with chips, we have always subscribed to the "don't risk digging around in a happy joint theory." If it's been there a while and it is NOT bothering the horse, then we don't risk aggravating the situation. Going in can cause problems as well.

[lisa]

I'm not surprised the chip isn't bothering her now -- she hasn't been doing anything in two years! Any inflammation would be gone by now.

Nobody knows whether this will remain a happy joint. And, by the time it's unhappy (if that happens), the damage has been done.

Of course, I'd consult with a good sport horse vet. But if it were me, depending on the location, I'd take it out now before it has a chance to do any damage.

JMHO -- I have one with a chip that I wish I had known about earlier. Unfortunately, we found it too late and at the time it was discovered, it wasn't a good candidate for surgical removal. So, he's serviceably sound and rideable for about three months, and then he gets three months off. Then we repeat. :)

[Carried Away]

I was in a similar boat this fall when I bought an OTTB who needed an OCD taken out of his hock. He was flexing a 1/5 and it wasn't making him lame, but I didn't want to leave it in there to find out if it would. I was assured by my vet and surgeon that it would be a straightforward, simple surgery and the horse would need 60 days off. They were right, everything went well and he has returned to work 100% sound.

Now don't think that I didn't have a million second thoughts about the whole thing and finding a horse who had no issues to begin with...because I agonized over the decision. In the end I felt this particular horse was worth taking a risk on, and I have not regretted doing it (despite the fact that he is young and had a bit of ants in his pants towards the end of his handwalking stage!) PM me if you have additional questions about cost, etc...there is quite a range in estimates depending on where you take the horse.

Good luck!

[GotSpots]

Hard to say. I've known one with a honkin' chip in a hind ankle: the thing is enormous and ugly as sin on film. Knocking wood, darn horse doesn't know he has it, he goes about his job happy as a clam, and it's old, cold, and unreactive. If it breaks loose, it's career ending, but at the point he was for sale, he was doing the job I wanted at the level I wanted without it reacting, so I was willing to live with the risk (and corresponding price reduction).

On a one who has not done much? Not sure I'd risk it. I don't believe in buying a problem: there are too many nice horses out there who don't have those issues up front, and particularly if she's had all this time off (which begs the question as to why, exactly, she's had the time off), I'd be more concerned. A surgery is always a gamble, and she's not going to be insurable for that surgery cost or if, g-d forbid, she has an issue coming out of anethesia (whereas, had you not found it on the vetting and it popped up later, she'd much more likely be covered). I would ask your student how comfortable she is with the very real possibility that the pony might be a pasture pet right off the bat - I hate to be a naysayer, but it's a real risk with an unknown like that.

[Donkey]

I'd run away....way too much risk. Is your client prepared to end up with an expensive unsound pasture puff that she can't sell - because that's how it can easily end up. Can she afford to buy and keep a second horse if this one doesn't work out?

In order for me to consider the horse,
- the horse would have to be in work to prove that she is sound when in work with the chip.
- If the horse is not sound with the chip then the current owner should have it removed and then when healed then put her in work again to prove that she stays sound post surgery.

There are a lot of NQR horses out there, try your best not to buy one.

As a one horse adult ammie owner, my money and time is too valuable to take extra chances with.

[Fairview Horse Center]

I would consult with your vet. If he thinks it is in a place to not bother her, I would not do surgery. Many horses are heavily competed with chips that never cause them a problem. Perfectly clean horses can kick a fence and get a chip any day after purchase too. No horse is perfect, and a great fit is hard to find.

A friend of mine had a chip removed from her horse's fetlock as a yearling, and another one from his stifle when he got kicked as a mature horse. Both were bothering him when she decided to have them removed. He went on to Event at Intermediate, and is still eventing 100% sound.

[slickteam12brs]

My TB has a bone chip in his right hind fetlock. It is smooth and doesn't bug him at all. You can tell he has it because the front of that fetlock is slightly larger than the other. He raced for 4 years, was trained as a hunter, and has been eventing through Prelim the last 8 years or so. It doesn't effect him at all, even though he is almost 21. No lameness, and we know it was already there when he was going Prelim.
If I were trying out the horse I would get a vet's opinion on whether or not the chip would affect her performance. I think surgery should probably be reserved only if she were to become lame in the future because of the chip. Since you can't wait around and see if she goes lame, I would get a vet's opinion and either buy her and hope for no surgery, or start looking for a different horse.

[Gry2Yng]

Just throwing out ideas...

Friend found the perfect horse, vetting revealed a chip in the coffin joint. Vet said no way. Seller ended up doing the surgery and the rehab, she felt she could not sell the horse with the chip. Friend continued to look. Never found anything else remotely as "perfect" for him. Friend bought the horse at completion of the rehab. Rehab has only been complete for a few months, so far so good.

[lstevenson]

I personally would not jump to do the surgery right away. I would start working the horse, gradually building up fitness, and when the horse is up to working for an hour every day, have your vet come out to do a flexion test on that joint. If the horse is sound after flexion, the chip is not bothering that joint at all, and I would tend to want to leave it alone. There is always a risk when you do surgery. And many horses are never bothered by OCDs.

Now if this was a young horse and you had a goal of racing or upper level eventing, I might think differently.

[Mach Two]

Yeah...if it ain't broke, don't fix it...if she buys the horse,(and insures her) just put the mare in work, and see how it goes...six months down the line, if the chip moves and acts up, then have it taken out. It may never move. If there is a way to protect the area with a galloping boot or ankle boot, to keep her from whacking the bump, even better. I hate to see anyone messing with a joint capsule that might be better left alone.

I knew some folks who had an old 'chaser with a couple of hind chips, and the ankle just looked awful...like a Wilma Flintstone bracelet. I once asked them (knew them them pretty well, and used to help them at the races) if they had ever wrapped and sweated that leg to get it looking better before a race...or considered surgery. Their answer? 'Heck no! With that leg we can put him in claiming races, he usually is in the money, and no one will ever claim him!" :lol:

[showponies]

My gelding came to me off the track with chips in his ankle. After lay up we flexed him and was sound..so we didn't remove them. That was 16 years ago, he has done the A/O hunters and the level 4 jumpers, and now at age 19, he is still going around the hunter ring. The people that lease him can't belive how sound he is. As they say, we wouldn't beable to buy one with this mileage and be this sound!!

Leave the chips unless they cause issues. I must say I took EXTRA great care of him. Iced, wrappped and cold hose....preventive goes a long ways!

[GiGi]

My mare has/had a chip in her pastern. Never lame again would not have known unless we xrayed for a different issue. My vet was all about leave well enough alone. I say had a chip as I fed her apple cider vinegar for awhile as many believe it helps dissolve bone chips.
I have not had it re-xrayed. We will be show Novice the end of this year.

So much of a good partnership is the rider confident on their mount. Sounds like you found a winner there. Mare also sounds pretty brave and smart.

[EventMore]

I'd walk away. Too many variables. If they can afford the surgerey they can afford a different horse. She's quiet and fun now, totally unfit and in a zero-stress lifestyle, but she may be a whole 'nother ball game in different circumstances, chip or no chip. I try very hard not to buy horses that are not in work. There's just no way to know what they'll be like.

[asterix]

I personally would not jump to do the surgery right away. I would start working the horse, gradually building up fitness, and when the horse is up to working for an hour every day, have your vet come out to do a flexion test on that joint. If the horse is sound after flexion, the chip is not bothering that joint at all, and I would tend to want to leave it alone. There is always a risk when you do surgery. And many horses are never bothered by OCDs.


Totally agree with this. If you haven't yet, get a REALLY experienced sporthorse lameness vet look at the films for a second opinion.

I bought a horse with an ankle chip -- he was doing the job I wanted him to do, sound as a dollar. But he flexed off on that ankle. My vet said if he hadn't flexed off, he'd have left the chip. I was madly in love with the horse, so I bought him at a much-reduced price, removed the chip, and he was sound on that foot until the day he died.
But.
In rehabbing from the surgery, he developed problems on his front feet (chip was in back), and I struggled to keep him sound and working due to that.
No way to know, but just to say there are more than one way a surgery can be risky.

As for GotSpots' point about the surgery and insurance, you CAN insure the horse just for the surgery and immediate risks thereof, even if the condition is not covered. I did. It was not very expensive at all.

good luck with your decision!

[bornfreenowexpensive]

I'd listen to a good sport vet on whether or not to remove them (and considering your goals, age of horse etc...). I know that it is better to remove them early before they cause damage to the joint and not all are removable. I've known several that had them removed early and had high level careers....no issues (young horses). Cost of the surgery really depends on location and size. There is a risk with any surgery as well so that shouldn't be taken lightly. I think the last time I was quoted (which was several years ago) it was less than 3K total....maybe 1.5K.

Also, giving them the Conquer gel after the surgery really removed the inflamation fast....surprisingly fast. There was some research done on it and IME it really did make a difference. http://www.smartpakequine.com/images/conquer-study.pdf