Electric dog collars - happy update!

[Romany]

Need some suggestions here!

Acquaintances of my SO from work have a large male (soon to be neutered) dog, approx 1yo, found as an approx 8 week old stray street puppy. Dog's breeding is unknown.

Dog is proving fairly hard to train, apparently. He's hyper-active, and gets nippy when playing, but becomes very submissive also, peeing in distress. Manages to be both agressive and submissive with other dogs all at once.

He's very cheerful, but seems anxious.

Owners are out all day at work. Dog is left at home in compound.

That's about all I can glean. It sounds to me as if the dog could do with some more competent handlers, but in their situation, that is not an option.

The owners would like to get a couple of different electric collars; one to restrict his barking, and another to control him.

Anyone had any experience with using electric collars? I never have, so I thought I'd ask here for feedback.

I should stress this isn't my dog, and I don't know these people, or the dog, but I said I'd do some digging on options for them.

Feel free to comment, suggest, recommend, admonish ;) as required.

[weaver]

I have used e collar in the past for dog chasing horses and pulling out tail hairs (horses think it was fun but they all ende up with short tails) I had the transmitter around my neck and dog eventually figured out when I pressed to my chest he was going to 'get' it.

I just rescued a rottweiler, 2 year old female, great dog but have issues with chasing. She came into the arena when I was working a horse even though I said NO, so I
'buzzed' her (newer collar and more potent) and that did the trick; hasn't tried it since. I am due to let the chickens run loose when the weather eases up and that will be a huge test. I think it will work. I won't even say NO, just let her think the chickens are doing it.

They are great tools in good hands but can be destructive and cruel in not so good hands. If owners can't put in time for training without the collar; then the collar shouldn't be used.

[walkinthewalk]

I am against both types of electric collars for the purposes the owners want to use them for. Sounds to me as if they need some training before they're capable of training the dog properly.

That being said, in 2002, I rescued a Lab/Sharpei at about 18 months old. My then neighbors saw him being thrown out of a van that didn't even stop, only slowed down a little and he went rolling into the ditch:mad:

Once I got him healed up and fattened up, I had to wear a shock collar on him only when he went outside because he kept digging out from under the backyard chain link fence.

We had to string a dog electric fence along 1/2 acre of chain link fence and put the collar on Luke everytime he went outside and he would test the fence on occasion to see if the collar was working:lol:

If he got out, there was no catching him. I would have to wait until he went to the barn to try and kill a cat and shut the barn door to catch him.

It's only been about a year that I haven't had to put the shock collar on him; I guess his 90# self doesn't want to dig that big of an escape hole - lol.

I hated it, but it was necessary because Luke wanted to live by his rules and his rules would've got him shot by someone sooner or later.

My boss tried using a barking shock collar on her Lab because one neighbor complained that Trooper barked "all day long". She quit using it for a couple different reasons, one of them being when lightening struck close by it juiced the collar and you know what that meant for the dog:(

What a concept if would be if they figured out it might be better to just enroll themselves and the dog in Obedience school? They would all learn in a positive way and I'll bet school would be a lot cheaper than two types of shock collars --- gas money to get to school included:confused:

[Bluey]

Around here, field and herding trainers have been using those for many years now.

One of our dog club members went to a seminar on how to train with those collars and came back and told us how it is done, but no one here needs to train with one, as we have other training skills already as good.

What we got from her lecture is that it is just like any other way of training, you have to know what you are doing and be a good trainer to use one.
I don't think they should have been sold to the public in general, as they are more a professional type tool, can do more harm than good if you don't know what you are doing.
If your timing is off, you may scare a dog of a black bucket by whatever you wanted to teach it to stay away.

Our local field dog club uses one for an aversive, to teach dogs to stay away from rattlers and most everyone I know, including myself, have taken our dogs, big and little thru their one day a year snake proofing.

The one with the control is a very experienced handler and even my little ten lb dog didn't get scared, just jumped a little when shocked as she focused on the snakes and ran to them.
One shock was enough, she didn't want to get close to another snake again.
She had previously been bitten twice.
She now alerts to snakes, but is not especially scared of them, just wary.

To really train, not just as an aversive, you use it along with very good training, as a tap on the shoulder for attention, not to shock a dog into submission.

You do have to know what you want of it, if to shock the dog away from something, or to reach a dog as you are training it.

All of us tried the shock collar on our arms and it doesn't really shocks much, even in the highest setting, just gets your attention.

For your friends, since they seem to not really know how to train, I am not sure that a shock collar will help them train their dog, but a dog trainer will.;)

[KrazyTBMare]

An e-collar is to reenforce the commands already known by the dog. The dog will not understand what is being asked of it if it just keeps getting shocked. As mentioned above, they can cause much more harm than good. The dog probably needs to go on LONG walks and if this isnt possible, if they have a treadmill available, put the dog on a treadmill (obviously supervised to make sure everything is ok) and get it moving. Dogs act out and get hyper and distructive when they are bored and not exercised enough. Also, if they can just spend 15 mins a day working on something as simple as sit, then that will transfer over into other aspects of the dogs life. They dont even have to think of it as training. Before the dog gets fed, the dog should sit and wait patiently for the bowl to be put down. Make the dog sit to go outside. Sit to come out of the kennel. Sit for petting, etc. I have German Shorthaired Pointers and those are some HYPER dogs, esp our adopted female. I know she was abused by an ecollar because I can just use the TONE option with her and she cowers. We are slowly building her confidence up and trying to undo that. She gets very hyper and crazy and then when she doesnt listen if you raise your voice, she cowers and pees and shakes, like you mention. Dogs like that need a lot of exercise and positive praise but also not babying them nor petting them just because they came over.

Anyways, lots more could be said but without knowing the situation and details, that is all Im going to say. If she wants to control the dogs barking, get a barking collar that sprays water or a citrus spray at the dog when it barks. But not an ecollar.

[JSwan]

I think they're great if used properly.

If the owners are going to click on it like it's the TV remote..... that dog will end up being dumped at the pound and put down.

[Casey09]

I don't have a problem with electric collars, but they do require experience to use.
If they need something to address the barking right away, I would suggest a citronella collar. However, I would also inquire as to what else they are doing to occupy the dog. For example, can they take him on a walk before they leave? Can they leave him with a frozen Kong?
To control him, I would suggest they look for an obedience class. If they are going to use an electric collar, they need to work on themselves first so that they will get the timing correct. If they use an electric collar with poor timing, it will probably make the dog worse - and more difficult to control.

[Simkie]

I have had FAR better luck with a citronella spray collar for barking.

Can't comment on the e collar for training.

[Meredith Clark]

I used one on Bella for chasing the horses. She would get so caught up, it was like she couldn't even hear me. She already knew the basics so it wasn't like I was just shocking her instead of training her, but when the horses ran she just wouldn't listen!

I got one with a warning buzz and then a shock option. I had to use it for maybe a week and it hasn't been on her since.

Great investment and good tool if in the right hands.

[tradewind]

I have no problems with e collars when used in a competent manner by people who know what they are doing or under the direct supervision of someone who does. This does not appear to be the case in the situation you describe. Therefore I vote no. Used improperly they can actually make the situation worse, particularly with dogs who are fearful bordering on fear agressive as you describe. Ecollars are like any tool that we use on our horses, fine in the right hands, very bad in the wrong.

[Romany]

Thanks so much for all the thoughtful and insightful answers!

Turns out the dog's breed is known after all, so I did some online digging this evening.

Also turns out that they're bred to bark and protect their nomadic "family," and specifically e/collars should NOT be used on them.

Instead of trying to make a pet out of a venerable old working breed, we're going to suggest they find a suitable home with people who understand the breed.

I'm guessing the poor dog was a total fish-out-of-water, confused by the conflicting messages from his well-meaning but slightly clueless/naive owners, and his genes, hence the nipping, peeing, anxiety, etc.

Thanks again - you've probably saved his life, I suspect, as his owners were getting a bit desperate, apparently. They surely did a really good thing by scooping him off the streets; it's later on that things are getting a bit sticky for everyone.

[Alagirl]

good to hear.

I am all for trying the remote controlled shock collars, in favor of the more drastic measures and as last resort, but the electronic anti barking devices...even other loud noises are said to set them off. That's just not fair to the dog.

[sisu27]

good to hear.

I am all for trying the remote controlled shock collars, in favor of the more drastic measures and as last resort, but the electronic anti barking devices...even other loud noises are said to set them off. That's just not fair to the dog.

I have used them and will use them again if I have to. The models I use have a warning tone prior to a shock so even if a loud noise set it off it would beep first. I haven't seen this happen anyways. The problem can be that some smart, stubborn ones will learn how many barks they can get in before the shock and then how long before it resets. Some will only not bark when they have the collar on and as soon as it is off they bark like mad. It depends on the dog and the human. My Dobe wore it briefly about 6 years ago and has rarely worn it since but he's a genius :winkgrin:

My mother has used an e collar on a particularly rambunctious rescue Dobe in conjunction with proper obedience, tread mill and proper socialization. It definately helped with her problem child. I haven't had one that needed much beyond the usual training so have not used one.

[MintHillFarm]

WORKS LIKE A CHARM! We have a loveable, sweet, very active and a bit hyper (!) Boykin Spaniel. This collar has helped her when she "forgets" to come or other commands when requested. With the control, one can set it to noise, a low tickle of a shock or a bit more of a buzz. It was a great investment and has helped tremendously.
I have no experience with a dog that could be aggressive and using it to control this type of behavior...I have heard this is not recommended for this useage. I have also not used one that is an aid to control barking.

[Canadian Starz]

Have a shock collar..."now sitting in a drawer". In order to be effective, one has to be right there to use it for every incidense, and as said above...be smart enough, to NOT use them like a TV remote!"
The most effective collar to curb barking IMO is the Citrenella Spray collar. Had to use it when our daughter moved with her pups to the city, and had to leave the dogs alone in the house. :eek: The dogs quickly learned, they did not enjoy the spray, and now both dogs & neighbours are happy again!:)
HOWEVER exercise and obedience training should be used every day for behavior problems, other than just barking.:yes:

[LShipley]

I was once very oppsed to e-collars, but have since learned that they are a wonderful thing, when used in conjunction with regular obedience training. I have a Brittany, and use the e-collar exclusively for off-leash playtime. Even though we don't hunt with him, when he is off leash and focuses on a squirrel or bird, it is near impossible to get his attention back to me and get him to come. In the words of the trainer, without the e-collar as a safety back-up, chances are high that if he is off leash, that at some point he will run off and get turned around and not come back, or get hurt. So, that is why I use the e-collar, because my dog is high energy and really NEEDS time to run and scamper all over the place.

My e-collar has a wonderful feature called "vibrate" - which doesn't shock my dog, it just vibrates the collar (like one of those buzzers at a restaurant). Often this is enough to get his attention back to me. I also always use this feature as a warning, before I ever hit the shock button.

[fish]

Another fan of ecollars. I've been using one with a tone for warning and several charge strength options for about 6 years. My dog is a super high energy GSP (German Shorthair Pointer) I'm sure I would have lost long ago without that collar. He rarely needs shocking anymore, but I still do not let him off leash outside the house without it. It would only take one dash into traffic in pursuit of a bird to get him killed and I'm not going to allow myself to become helpless in the event that he may try to do that. I love my remote controlled doggie!!

[Sing Mia Song]

Shock collars can work on a dog who is pushy and obnoxiously over-assertive. I have found that they backfire severely on a dog who is anxious, like the one you describe.

Glad the owners are going to find the dog a more appropriate home, where he can "be himself."

[Romany]

SO emailed the owners with a summation of the info and advice I'd been given here. He worded it fairly sharply ;)

Owners, with SO's help, found the dog a much more suitable home. He's on a busy farm with a great family who adore him; in fact, he is now absolutely adored by the entire village, and is one happy dog!

Square peg in a square hole, as they say.

Thanks again to all for the useful answers.

[MunchkinsMom]

I love happy endings! I hope the dog has a long and happy life in his new home.

[Alagirl]

awesome! :cool: