Helping a young horse "GO" without looking, first?!

[eponacowgirl]

One of my students rides a young arab mare. She has no aspirations of doing anything huge with her horse, but we did a little 18" event yesterday and even with all the schooling and confidence building we've done with her and her mare, she still has to stop at every fence- look at it- and then jumps, beautifully. We're still trotting up to fences and the basics are all nicely in place- we've got the big bold trot with lots of energy and impulsion, light-in-the-hand contact- and she'll jump things that shes seen before with that great out-of-stride jump. She's schooled half a dozen times before this, the first time out was just walking around, looking, doing some little banks and walking through water, and we built to schooling each piece of a course last year and then putting it together...

What can we do to help develop this confidence to get there and GO OVER the first time?! Has letting her look at fences just turned into a habit? We discouraged her rider from doing it at the end of last season and she would jump the first time most of the time.

Let me know if you need more info.

[pony grandma]

We had a big joyous puppydog of an OTTB that was very lookee. It was his personality. :D To get him over it I had my daughter sit back (ie ride like a cowboy with your seat -- chicken wing it if you have to), keep your leg on and yell GO at the fence. That big expression of air, use your shoulders, your elbows, it really drops your weight down into your core! Try it in your chair and see the feel that happens. The rider using her voice with her body with great conviction seems to grab the horse's attention away from their own thinking! :yes:

[shawneeAcres]

THe first thing to determine is if the RIDER is looking down at the fence. Horses can feel where the rider is looking and if the rider looks the horse figures there MUST be something I need to check out. So no matter what the rider MUST focus on a point in the distance thru the center of the fence. The second thing is honestly you need to be cantering over fences, particularly cross country. A horse is much more likely to jump out of stride at a canter than a trot. If the horse is SO green that is has to trot 18" fences, then I feel it does not need to be competing at all cross country. I would take this horse and work on cantering over cross country fences in a schooling environment. If the rider is not at a point where they are confident enough to center the fences, then a confident trainer needs to do so to instill the confidence in the horse. It honestly sounds like this is a case of green horse/green rider which is not really a good combination. It takes time to develop considence, the rider needs to get confident on a well schooled horse that WILL jump everytime and the horse needs to get confidence thru a confident rider that will keep the horse focused on jumping and galloping and not stopping to look.

[pony grandma]

It honestly sounds like this is a case of green horse/green rider.

I like your reply. My daughter was very experienced and can ride like a monkey.

Gymnastics really help a horse (and a rider) learn to ride forward over anything. Set up all kinds of combinations over all kinds of objects. I had a young horse, off the track ( trained with the help of a great friend who believed in gymnastics and taught me well) back in my ahemmm.... younger years. He only knew gymnastics, we didn't have an kind of cross country fences to school over. He went to a Davidson clinic and was the only horse in the clinic group that jumped every cross country fence clean, including some preliminary ones.

[jetsmom]

At 18", there should never be an option of not going over. If they stop, they need to be forced to jump from a standstill, not circle and reapproach. And they shouldn't be allowed to go "look" at a jump first, then circle to jump.
Agree w/the poster who said to use your voice/growl at them.

[Mrs. Cowboy]

My goofy mare can jump the moon, but she didn't like approaching fences that had a shadow on the near side. She'd go over a ditch that was well-lit, but not a teeny 2 o'clock shadow and log. My instructor in a XC clinic rolled her eyes at me and said, "go get a fleece noseband cover from the trailer". It limited my mare's sight "just enough" that she didn't feel the need to stare down the shadows. I used it just that clinic and one more schooling day and my mare learned to trust 'me' to tell her the fence was safe.

[Bogie]

Growling does wonders :D. I'd much rather use my voice at the beginning than resort to taps with the crop or spurs.

I actually don't worry about trotting some of the fences. I have an OTTB now who can jump the moon but he feels more comfortable (and braver) at a trot so as long as he's moving forward and calm I let him.

Some horses are just braver than others and "get" the idea of going first sooner. If the Arab mare is green and her rider is green it might be a good idea to have someone more experienced ride the mare over a few xc jumps/courses to help her gain confidence. Likewise, put the rider on a horse that just goes so she has no confidence issues either.

[lstevenson]

At 18", there should never be an option of not going over. If they stop, they need to be forced to jump from a standstill, not circle and reapproach. And they shouldn't be allowed to go "look" at a jump first, then circle to jump.


Yep. With this kind of horse, keep the fences so small that if they stop, you go from there. They have to come to the way of thinking that they have to find a way over the first time. Only when the horse has REALLY understood that concept can you start working with bigger jumps.

[Sudi's Girl]

Aha! I have a young Arab who is just now getting over this too, and I agree with everything that's been said here.

I think the biggest thing for my guy was his "Go" button. It was very slow, and sometimes non-existant. When I have him moving quickly off my leg (which takes a lot of dressage work as he tends to like to forget this too), he's much more foward and brave towards new fences. When I'm confidant, he's confidant. And - like what the other poster said - Don't let the rider look at the fence!!

Good luck!

[yellowbritches]

I agree with going from nothing if that's what it takes. This is the general practice with all our youngsters if they want to be looky early on. If they stop in front of it, they are kept over their until they go over it (or, occasionally, through it) then big reward. I prefer to correct the positive (yay!!! You were brave and got over the scary thing!) rather than punish because they stopped. If you keep them their and keep asking them to go over it, they get that their job is to go over, no matter what they think of it. If they learn that if they don't like it the first time and stop to get a look, then that's what they'll do.

[Ajierene]

I had this problem with my mare and a combination of factors have helped her get over the 'stop and look to make sure there are no monsters' issue.

Initially - jump her small enough that I did not mind jumping from a standstill if necessary. Crop consistently one stride out, along with making sure my shoulders were back, head up, leg on.

This continues to this day- many jumps that are similar to jumps we have jumped before are fine, but if I do not act confident, she is not as sure, which has led to refusals before...

[PatsTicket]

When I first took my horse cross country, he had to stop at every jump, then "troll-jump" (way over-jump and keep his feet HIGH in case there are trolls hiding in the jump) every jump, then jump nicely. Turn around to do the jump from the other direction and AGAIN, refuse, troll jump, jump nicely.

I thought we could never event since you don't get 3 tries at every jump on a cross country course. But it was just a matter of mileage (or number of jumps). After a while, he realized that I wasn't going to ask him to jump anything that would kill us. So, while I still need a good "sit up and kick on" occasionally, we're partners now and he goes over things I point him at.

Just keep presenting your horse to new and different jumps that won't kill him and he'll finally understand that it's OK to jump something that you haven't seen before.

Like most things with horses, there just isn't a shortcut for mileage.

[deltawave]

Like most things with horses, there just isn't a shortcut for mileage.

Exactly what I was going to say, but much more to the point than I tend to be. :D

[clm08]

Oh my, I hope this young Arab mare is not like another not-so-young Arab mare I know, who NEEDS to look at every single jump, even a ground pole, the first time, and then she will jump it. If it is small enough, from a standstill. Bigger jumps she needs to be re-presented and then she will jump 3', no problem. The rider is fairly good, but it is very frustrating for her to be eliminated at XC or SJ because her mare will stop and look at more than a few jumps.:no: She has been working with this mare for 3 years now, and the problem hasn't gone away yet...

[Jleegriffith]

Mileage is the key- h/j shows, x-c, trail riding and as many places as you can take them. You can get creative in making scary jumps in the ring at low heights and just making them pop over. I like to think about just staying back, longer rein and squeezing them like a tube of toothpaste right up over the jump. You have to balanced as some of the jumps they do are just hard to ride but they learn they can jump the scariest jump from a slow pace and everything gets easier from there. Trot..trot..trot riding jumps from the trot is way harder than the canter but much easier in terms of getting the horse over the jump. They have more legs on the ground therefore the rider has more of an advantage to control the horses body. Walk jumping is necessary too. If the rider is not sure work on this on a calm horse first to get the feeling. Just stay at the lower levels until the horse is confident that way the rider will always feel like they can push them over the jump from a walk or trot safely.

It takes some horses longer than others to gain confidence but it can be done. I have had horses that were terrified of poles let alone jump come along and in several months they were jumping scary courses w/o a glance.

[LR1976]

The horse I event now was like this when we started. What helped with him was to get a little course going, not just school individual jumps. If he could get into a rhythm it really helped him figure out what he was supposed to do. For the first year I showed him I had major "first jump" anxiety. I knew if I could just get him over that first xc fence that things would start to flow. We event at Training now and he has a hissy fit in the start box because he has it figured out and can't wait to GO! It'll come. Just keep at it. I agree with what others have said as well. Keep the jumps small so he can go over from a standstill if need be and then I would say after he goes, go on to another jump and just keep him forward. After you've jumped 4 or 5 THEN go back.

[purplnurpl]

Just remember not to over do it.
Horses gain confidence by understanding what they are doing.
If they need to peak, as long as they don't stop moving forward, let them. If they are pushed/growled/spanked/kicked over the fence without 'getting' it you will have accomplished nothing.

I have a few peeps with green beans and I tell them if they point their horse at something they have to be positive that they will get over it. You don't have to be positive your horse will not stop but you have to be 100% positive you will get over without turning away. If you can't do that then the log is too big.

I also like schooling in hand. Logs, banks, ditches. And schooling by just walking over logs/ditches/banks.

[Saskatoonian]

I agree with purplnurpl - it's not that they can't look, it's that they can't stop. Very different. For the same reason I completely disagree with cantering rather than trotting. My youngsters always trot the jumps on their first XC courses because that's our system - they have a chance to take a good look at whatever it is, no worries about getting the right striding, hop over, big pats, and canter off happy. If they're a little hesitant trotting in, a tap behind the leg. They know that they always get to look, that they always have to go, and that going gets them lots of praise and a happy gallop. When I bring them back to trot, they start looking for the jump.

[Romany]

Do you have the opportunity for her to school over fences in a group, where she can get a lead?

What about taking her out for a day or two of hunting, or maybe a hunter pace?

Arabs are funny - very looky. I rode a pba as a kid, who I growled at for every jump...and every picture we have of him jumping, his eyes are tight shut. :lol:

[eponacowgirl]

Thanks for the input- I like the "over is the only option" approach. The mare is very game, so I think when she gets that idea in her head, we'll be ALL set! (I hope!)

[Blugal]

Can you start even smaller, with the 'go' response? Over scary things with no height. Or, try ponying her over hill & dale (not jumps) if you think she might get confidence (or a good tug on the halter from the saddle horn!) from that.

Agree that anything you face them to, you must be 100% confident that they will go. Either they'll go right away, or they'll go in 10 mins. or an hour, but you will be calmly sitting in front of it until they give the right response. At the beginning, this should be something they can walk over, every time, until they understand that 'go' is the only option.

A more experienced rider, over a period of several sessions, may also be required.