Where Do You Guys Shop for Eventers? [Archive]

Kyzteke

Mar. 28, 2009, 10:53 AM

OK, I know about the standard websites: Dreamhorse, Equine.com & Warmbloods for Sale.

Any others that are growing in popularity but perhaps not as crowded? Does anyone "shop" on the USEA classified site?

Also, one more question. I have a young, unstarted mare who I think would be a dynamite eventing horse and I'd like to point her in that direction (in terms of selling her). Her movement and breeding tell me she would be good to excellent in the discipline.

But, other than natural stuff in the pasture (the occasional log, brush pile, etc) I've never asked her to jump. Well, I know alot of eventers get OTTBs and most of them have never jumped....so the question is: "how important is it for you to see the horse jump before you buy?"

Generally the horses I've bred have been marketed more towards dressage & endurance (depending on breed), with one or two for hunters. But (I feel) this mare would be a killer eventing horse in the right hands and I'd love to see her succeed.

So where do eventers go to shop for their next prospect?

Couture TB

Mar. 28, 2009, 12:22 PM

I usually buy everything off the track, but you have to also realize that OTTBs are cheaper then private seller horses. I sometimes find a nice prospect that is green but needs a ton of work but all in all the prospects that have never jumped I will only pay about $1,000 for unless that horse also goes great on the flat. I also will not touch a horse blemished legs as they are harder to sell if they don't work out for an eventer and I have to sell them as a dressage horse or hunter. We just had a 3yr Appendix QH that people were going to just give us that was going w/t/c under saddle and we had to tell them to load him back up on to the trailer as he had a bad scar on his hind pastern that would always be ugly.

On another note we paid quite a bit for an Advanced prospect that was fox hunted and did BN even though he needed quite a bit of work on the flat.

retreadeventer

Mar. 28, 2009, 01:41 PM

You say she's young and unstarted...but also say she's jumped natural logs in her pasture...unasked? Is that under saddle, or just running around freely?
If you don't know if she jumps, then --- jump her. If she is not under saddle, free jump her. If she is under saddle or lunging, then....trot some poles and add a crossrail and voila, you have jump...hopefully!
Takes very little to try a horse over jumps. 15 minutes and a couple of pieces of junk propped up somewhere. I've jumped prospects over fence boards, one end on a wheelbarrow and the other on two cement blocks in a driveway. Great horse, that, did buy it. Made a preliminary eventer. The very best pony I ever had as a kid we jumped bareback over a bamboo pole held up by the seller and my mother on the other side, and the seller kept saying, higher, higher and my mother had it up by her chin and said that's ok, after I cleared it twice, we'll buy him. True story!

Kyzteke

Mar. 28, 2009, 06:41 PM

You say she's young and unstarted...but also say she's jumped natural logs in her pasture...unasked? Is that under saddle, or just running around freely?

Yes, that's just goofing around. I video taped her last fall and there was a small cross rail (like 18") in her way...she didn't even hesitate, just popped over it. To me, that's not a big deal, but I have seen horses stop for a minute, hesitate, then go over if forced, so I guess that's a step in the right direction.

When the snow finally clears I'll try her jumping some small stuff on a lunge line. I don't have a way to free jump her, so that's the best I can do.

I know this sounds goofy, but her breed (Akhal Tekes) are natural jumpers, and I haven't met one yet that couldn't jump to some degree, but I can understand a buyer wanting to make sure.

Some in action:
http://pets.webshots.com/album/570722781ljQjsR

But just because she will jump a 24" x-rail, how does that insure she will be suitable for eventing?

Couture TB

Mar. 28, 2009, 07:18 PM

JER

Mar. 28, 2009, 07:31 PM

Kyzteke

Mar. 28, 2009, 10:18 PM

Fun over fences with Akhal-Tekes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6necwOs6D38)

I do love this breed.

(I have a half-bred, a TB-Teke to be exact, and her response to a Mylar balloon floating across her path on the trail was to jump it and continue on without a second glance. Never mind that she'd never seen a balloon before (she was barely 3) or done any jumping. She is all about going forward and getting the job done.)

Wow, what a COOL video! I thought I'd seen most of the Teke vids out there. Do you know the source of that video and when it was taken?

Yeah, Tekes are jumpers. Honestly, I'm sure there is one or two out there that can't or won't jump, but personally I've never known one. And they are SURE about forward <g>...

Kinor (my stallion) was sent off to be started u/s by a MT cowboy. Tekes are smart and often get bored, so to give him something else to do the trainer asked if he could jump him some -- his wife had done alittle jumping in 4-H. I envisioned them doing afew little x rails and said, "Sure."

So I come to visit at the 30-40 day mark. They ask if I'd like to see him jump. Then the wife, who really couldn't ride a jump for $hit, put poor old Kinor through a course of some 10 jumps!! None of them were smaller than 2 ft. and some almost 3 ft! She kept hitting him in the mouth, but he jumped every one.

I politely said they shouldn't do any more (at the end of the course they turned to me and said "wanna see him do it again?") and that was the end of his jumping career, except for free jumping.

But since this filly is a 3/4 sister to Kinor, I'm betting she'll jump just fine <g>.

Kyzteke

Mar. 28, 2009, 10:22 PM

Just wondering what is your mares bloodlines? I have delt with a Teke and know of a few with the same breeding as the one I had, certain lines are different then others for them to a larger degree then other breeds.

Basically all her blood goes back to either Phil & Margot Case's program or the Sprandel breeding program. Her sire was by Melechan (known for really super gaits) & o/o an Elite mare named Piroshka.

Her dam was bred by the Cases and sired by Senitir (the first Teke brought to America). Senitir sired alot of good jumpers and eventers, including Sengar, who was long-listed for the Olympics in that sport. Craig Thompson rode him.

My filly's dam was also a full sibling to Kazakstan, who competed very successfully in jumpers & eventers while being ridden by his ammie owner.

I've watched this filly in the pasture and she is SO athletic. Usually I market my Tekes to the endurance crowd, but I'd love to see this gal do more.

What lines of Tekes have you known that CAN'T jump? I'd be curious.

babybritain

Mar. 28, 2009, 11:15 PM

Not really pertaining to the thread, buuut I just have to say that it is my dream to own an eventing Akhal-Teke.
Maybe one day :sigh:

Couture TB

Mar. 29, 2009, 10:28 AM

Basically all her blood goes back to either Phil & Margot Case's program or the Sprandel breeding program. Her sire was by Melechan (known for really super gaits) & o/o an Elite mare named Piroshka.

Her dam was bred by the Cases and sired by Senitir (the first Teke brought to America). Senitir sired alot of good jumpers and eventers, including Sengar, who was long-listed for the Olympics in that sport. Craig Thompson rode him.

My filly's dam was also a full sibling to Kazakstan, who competed very successfully in jumpers & eventers while being ridden by his ammie owner.

I've watched this filly in the pasture and she is SO athletic. Usually I market my Tekes to the endurance crowd, but I'd love to see this gal do more.

What lines of Tekes have you known that CAN'T jump? I'd be curious.

Oh no it is not a line that can't jump. It is a specific line bred by a certain breeder (NOT any of the ones that you listed) that can be very very dangerous horses. The breeder of those horses does not take temperment into the mix and has bred horses that even the vets are afraid of working on.

Kyzteke

Mar. 29, 2009, 10:55 AM

Oh no it is not a line that can't jump. It is a specific line bred by a certain breeder (NOT any of the ones that you listed) that can be very very dangerous horses. The breeder of those horses does not take temperment into the mix and has bred horses that even the vets are afraid of working on.

GQ -- I sent you a PM.

horsepix76

Mar. 29, 2009, 08:03 PM

I've been using www.EquineNow.com for quite some time to sell/list horses and have had good luck.

Kyzteke

Mar. 30, 2009, 11:49 AM

I've been using www.EquineNow.com for quite some time to sell/list horses and have had good luck.

Thanks Horsepix! This is exactly the type of info I'm looking for. Equine.com has gotten so crowded sometimes it's hard to get "seen."

Any other newer (smaller) equine sales sits that you guys are using?

bambam

Mar. 30, 2009, 12:14 PM

In terms of websites, I look at the Area website classifieds and the websites of professional eventers I know and websites of those that I know sell a lot of eventers or are knowledgeable enough to spot a horse that would make it as an eventer.

As a general warning (which you did not ask for ;)), I would say that the market for green horses that have had no or very limited experiences jumping xc type obstacles being sold by a non-eventer and marketed as an eventer is extremely small (if this is not you, then you can disregard ;) but that is what it sounds like). In terms of selling green/young horses, it is much easier to sell horses that have at least schooled some xc type obstacles (jumped out in the open, gone through water happily, will jump a ditch and banks) and/or greenies that have an experienced eventer assessing them as a good prospect with a good eventing mind.
Just my 2 cents

tx3dayeventer

Mar. 30, 2009, 01:01 PM

Thanks Horsepix! This is exactly the type of info I'm looking for. Equine.com has gotten so crowded sometimes it's hard to get "seen."

Any other newer (smaller) equine sales sits that you guys are using?

Was Kandar yours? I knew him when Melanie S. was riding him with Jim Graham. COOL horse!!! And so is Dang, who Katie B. rode with Jim. I think both girls got to Prelim or Int with their borrowed/leased Tekes. I always wanted one because of Kandar & Dang. Never found one when I was "needing" one though.

jenm

Mar. 30, 2009, 01:59 PM

Here is a new site that seems pretty cool:

http://www.sellthehorse.com/

I think it's just getting going, but the concept is nice. It is comprehensive and allows for a lot of detail which could save people travel time and gas money.

imapepper

Mar. 30, 2009, 02:10 PM

Takes very little to try a horse over jumps. 15 minutes and a couple of pieces of junk propped up somewhere. I've jumped prospects over fence boards, one end on a wheelbarrow and the other on two cement blocks in a driveway. Great horse, that, did buy it. Made a preliminary eventer. The very best pony I ever had as a kid we jumped bareback over a bamboo pole held up by the seller and my mother on the other side, and the seller kept saying, higher, higher and my mother had it up by her chin and said that's ok, after I cleared it twice, we'll buy him. True story!

My last horse was tried over hay bales and a big roll of chicken wire. Not exactly the safest jumps around but boy was I impressed that she just cantered down to a roll of chicken wire and jumped it :D Her jump makes up for her being hot and being the barn diva ;)

Kyzteke

Mar. 30, 2009, 05:30 PM

As a general warning (which you did not ask for ;)), I would say that the market for green horses that have had no or very limited experiences jumping xc type obstacles being sold by a non-eventer and marketed as an eventer is extremely small (if this is not you, then you can disregard ;) but that is what it sounds like). In terms of selling green/young horses, it is much easier to sell horses that have at least schooled some xc type obstacles (jumped out in the open, gone through water happily, will jump a ditch and banks) and/or greenies that have an experienced eventer assessing them as a good prospect with a good eventing mind.
Just my 2 cents

But I know alot of eventers get prospects off the track. Having worked on the track for many years, I know none of those horses ever did anything but travel over a well-groomed race course...and they certainly didn't jump.

So only experienced eventers get their horses OTT?

This mare is so very athletic she could do alot of different things -- but a friend of mine who use to do jumpers & knows Tekes thinks she would be "wasted" on endurance...and because of her breeding/pedigree, eventing is certainly a strong possibility.

While I'm no touting her as the next Windfall, I'd bet the last dollar I have that she could do the lower levels if the rider/trainer knew what he/she was doing.

And that WOULD be key. Tekes, like many TBs, don't do real well with rough handling or ham fisted, ignorant training. Stuff that a WB might tolerate (and I have WBs) will not usually be accepted by a Teke. But once you have formed that bond with them, they will try their heart out for you!

Kyzteke

Mar. 30, 2009, 05:38 PM

Was Kandar yours? I knew him when Melanie S. was riding him with Jim Graham. COOL horse!!! And so is Dang, who Katie B. rode with Jim. I think both girls got to Prelim or Int with their borrowed/leased Tekes. I always wanted one because of Kandar & Dang. Never found one when I was "needing" one though.

I wish! No, he was bred & owned by Phil & Margot Case. I believe there is a picture of him in that album which I posted the link to. Stunning horse. He was sired by Senitir as well -- my filly's (and my stallion) grandsire.

I never heard of Dang -- do you mean Zang? He was by Senitir as well o/o a TB mare, I think. Yes, both did well in the sport and the Cases put ALOT of effort into promoting/training & campaigning them.

Actually, eventing is pretty much a natural sport for Tekes -- the classic format especially -- because they can jump, have the endurance and generally can do very well in dressage if you get a good one.

tx3dayeventer

Mar. 30, 2009, 05:58 PM

I wish! No, he was bred & owned by Phil & Margot Case. I believe there is a picture of him in that album which I posted the link to. Stunning horse. He was sired by Senitir as well -- my filly's (and my stallion) grandsire.

I never heard of Dang -- do you mean Zang? He was by Senitir as well o/o a TB mare, I think. Yes, both did well in the sport and the Cases put ALOT of effort into promoting/training & campaigning them.

Actually, eventing is pretty much a natural sport for Tekes -- the classic format especially -- because they can jump, have the endurance and generally can do very well in dressage if you get a good one.

There is a picture of Kandar and that is why I asked. :D

Katie's horse was named Dang. I am sure (I looked at her facebook photos of him :D)

bambam

Mar. 30, 2009, 06:31 PM

But I know alot of eventers get prospects off the track. Having worked on the track for many years, I know none of those horses ever did anything but travel over a well-groomed race course...and they certainly didn't jump.

So only experienced eventers get their horses OTT?

This mare is so very athletic she could do alot of different things -- but a friend of mine who use to do jumpers & knows Tekes thinks she would be "wasted" on endurance...and because of her breeding/pedigree, eventing is certainly a strong possibility.

While I'm no touting her as the next Windfall, I'd bet the last dollar I have that she could do the lower levels if the rider/trainer knew what he/she was doing.

And that WOULD be key. Tekes, like many TBs, don't do real well with rough handling or ham fisted, ignorant training. Stuff that a WB might tolerate (and I have WBs) will not usually be accepted by a Teke. But once you have formed that bond with them, they will try their heart out for you!
I did not say there was no market, I said it was a much smaller market and a harder sell. There are tons of green, athletic horses out there who might make good eventers but have never even been presented to a xc obstacle and yes there are buyers for them, but there are way more of those horses than there are buyers (and most who do would likely rather know that they have at least calmly hacked out and schooled a couple of xc jumps- the ability to jump is useless if they do not have the mind for eventing). Since I suspect you will be asking more than the $200-$1500 that racing trainers are selling their racehorses for when they are done racing ;) (and I am not saying you shouldn't), I am not sure you are actually really competing with those horses for buyers (and while there are many who buy straight off the track, there are many more, who do not). I am by no means an expert in buying and selling event horses, but this is what I have observed and experienced- you are, of course, welcome to disagree :D

HiJumpGrrl

Mar. 30, 2009, 06:43 PM

JER

Mar. 30, 2009, 07:16 PM

How about an OTAT?

Akhal-Tekes racing: video 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iubDiOJbC_g) video 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPn90LUvhcQ) video 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wa6NoqeTmPc)

Now about that horse-hunting trip to the tracks in Russia and Turkmenistan...

I'd like a golden dun one too, with lots of chrome. My TB-Teke is black, very shiny black, not one white hair, despite her AT sire having 4 knee-length socks and a big blaze. But my TB mare seems to be one of those chrome-suppressors. :cry:

Kyzteke

Mar. 30, 2009, 07:16 PM

a lot of folks shop on the Area II website. If you are anywhere close to Area II (PA, NJ, DE, MD, VA, NC), it would be worth your while to post an ad there.

I will say that you can get some nice TBs OTT for very cheap right now. Not saying that a nice young horse won't bring in some money, but with the market the way it is, you might have more trouble than usual placing a nice horse of an "off" breed for a significant price.

Having said that, I, too, would love to have a Teke. I want a shiny buckskin one like my Breyer Model, Bolya!

Not close, I'm afraid, but still might give it a whirl. I feel my asking price for this filly is very reasonable, however I agree you could get a OTTB for less (probably much less).

But still, not everyone is broke, even in this economy. For what she is, I don't feel she is expensive, but that is for each buyer to decide. We all know that ANY horse is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

As I mentioned, I also market my stallion's get (mostly Arab/Teke crosses) to the endurance world primarily, although I did just sell a WB x by him to a hunter home.

But endurance riders are a budget-minded group for the most part, and many of them scout the ads for free Arabs or $1000 prospects. Obviously, a breeder of any kind is not going to sell much in that market, because it costs a HECK of a lot more to produce a horse than that. And I can understand that -- in fact, I totally understand being broke...after all, I have horses too <g>.

Still, even in the endurance world Kinor's foals have consistantly sold before they turn a year old and for what is considered pretty good money in those circles $2500-4000.

Sometimes people want what they want, and if they have the money, they are willing to spend it to get what they want....if that makes sense.

TOTALLY OT, but it's funny about different markets. As I mentioned, I also have Hanoverians and breed my mares to well-regarded, tested dressage stallions of European bloodlines. I routinely sell those weanlings for $8000-10K -- in the dressage market that's not considered outrageous.

The $3000 endurance prospect may end up being FAR more successful in his sport than the $10K dressage prospect...so who is to say which is worth more?

asterix

Mar. 30, 2009, 10:15 PM

you are quite right about the differing markets in the different disciplines -- and if you spend time reading any of the threads (not recent, but in the archives) on this board regarding eventing breeding/purpose-bred eventers, you will see that it has been a tough question for a while -- it is clear that one could breed great eventers if one tried (Denny Emerson has been doing it for a while), but the myth that anyone can buy an OTTB for 500 bucks and go to Rolex on it has a great hold on the minds of many amateur eventers (in my opinion, most of us ammies lack the skill and guts to remake an OTTB correctly OR to go to Rolex on any horse, but that's another subject).

Thus it remains true that it is VERY hard to sell a nice young horse of any breed who has done "nothing" for a good price to an eventer. But I am not sure you have to do all that much to change this -- take the horse schooling over little natural obstacles (even if she hasn't really jumped under saddle), take her to a walk-trot dressage schooling show.

If she's not under saddle yet I think you probably need to do the math on how much time/$ it will cost to get her to that point...

SellTheHorse.com

Mar. 30, 2009, 10:42 PM

www.SellTheHorse.com
This is a new site with performance horses for sale, including several event horses and prospects:

It just launched last month--I am the owner--and we welcome feedback from the community about our unique way of presenting sale horses.

I also check the USEA's web site regularly for my area, and other nearby areas. I happen to be looking for a young event prospect with some basic training and the athletic ability to go Prelim with time/training, so this is a very helpful thread to me as a new member here. Thanks.

Kyzteke

Mar. 31, 2009, 02:12 PM

Thus it remains true that it is VERY hard to sell a nice young horse of any breed who has done "nothing" for a good price to an eventer. But I am not sure you have to do all that much to change this -- take the horse schooling over little natural obstacles (even if she hasn't really jumped under saddle), take her to a walk-trot dressage schooling show.

If she's not under saddle yet I think you probably need to do the math on how much time/$ it will cost to get her to that point...

See, I guess I don't quite get this.

Check out the ongoing thread over on Sporthorse breeding about $10K weanlings. Obviously those are all WBs from solid, tested European lines and mostly jumper/dressage bred.
But they are WEANLINGS. I've sold afew myself for $10K -- dressage bred -- and none have been over 6 months old.

So, not to hijack my own thread, but why do you think that market is willing to pay those prices for young, unstarted (uhhh...obviously) horses and the eventing market is not?

And no, this mare isn't started u/s. I can't offer her for a reasonable price if I pay to send her to a trainer, and at 56 yrs old and with one artificial hip I am no longer the first one to throw a leg over a greenie. I was hoping I could place her with an ammie good enough to start her.

I use to start my own, so surely there are those out there who still do?

bambam

Mar. 31, 2009, 03:02 PM

but why do you think that market is willing to pay those prices for young, unstarted (uhhh...obviously) horses and the eventing market is not?

Because historically, it has not. One of the difficulties that I have heard eventer breeders voice repeatedly is that eventers simply don't pay as much as those in disciplines like h/j and dressage (you yourself talked about the folks who buy ottbs). Do a search in this forum- it has been discussed repeatedly. That may be changing (and prices for made event horses have certainly gone up) but if you do a search of ads for horses being marketed as eventers, their prices are generally substantially lower than those of a comparable level (whatever the level) in h/j or dressage. Not saying it is not possible to sell a higher priced youngster who has not been under saddle to an eventer, but it is a pretty small market IMO