What on Earth could have done this to him? w/pic [Archive]

nervousalter

Mar. 25, 2009, 08:34 PM

On Saturday, I got a call from the BO saying that my boy was found by the fence repair guy in his pasture with a cut on his hip. He said the alpha gelding was biting him when he was found.

Rushed to the barn and found Heath with a 4" long vertical gash on his hip. The BO was out of town, so her mom had hosed the wound and put corona on it. It appeared to be about 2" deep. His hide was raised on either side.

His lameness vet wouldn't answer the phone at 4pm Saturday and the local vet was vacationing out of town, so I just kept flushing the wound with saline and putting Triple Antibiotic on the surface. Also had some Uniprim left over so put him on that Saturday and Sunday night.

My immediate thought was that he rolled on something. Others thought maybe the alpha gelding had bit or kicked him.

The vet came out Monday afternoon. What we thought was two inches deep turned out to be FIVE inches deep and it was infected. It cuts straight down into his body with a slight angle towards his tail. It can't be stitched due the depth and position (it opens each time he walks).

The BO and her daughter have been invaluable, helping to clean the wound; her daughter actually has to stick her hand inside him to do so. Vet is due back out tomorrow to check it.

He said no horse could have made the wound and guessed that Heath was galloping and ran into a branch.

We checked the pasture and could not find a branch that would have made such a deep clean cut.

Any ideas?

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/BSxaYdUFlkXx1P19I6iIsg?feat=directlink

joharavhf

Mar. 25, 2009, 08:41 PM

OMG, JEEZ. I'd be looking for something metal and sharp out in the field. I can't imagine a branch making such a clean straight cut.

danceronice

Mar. 25, 2009, 08:45 PM

:eek: I concur, look for something metal and sharp, or for a very hard, sharp piece of broken wood. I cannot think how a horse could cause that--I can't even think of a predator that could do that without leaving some other kind of wounds.

Mar. 25, 2009, 08:50 PM

:eek::eek:

It's entirely possible to have run into something hard enough to split the hide there, rather than actually cut into it, if that makes sense. For example, the corner of a barn, something like that.

jaimebaker

Mar. 25, 2009, 08:56 PM

I would suspect a t-post. Definitely something metal and sharp.

winegum

Mar. 25, 2009, 09:04 PM

That looks so awful, poor baby.

I would say look for something sharp and metal too, but at that angle and position I am assuming it would have had to actually slice into him from above or that high at least, and the chances of something sharp and metal being in a tree is unlikely.

What kind of fencing is in the field he is staying in? Is there barbed wire? I am sure that would have made a distinct kind of cut and probably torn some tissues and muscle though if it was. What is the fence line in relation to his height? Could he have been galloping and hit ran into a piece of a broken fence board and it have cut into him or something.

I suppose a branch could do that if it hit him just the right way and if he was running through it very fast (which of course, as we know, all horses are capabale of). I have no clue, a complete mystery to me, but I hope everything turns out well for the both of you. Looks like just a kind of one-time freak accident thing.

Lulu

Mar. 25, 2009, 09:09 PM

Hate to be suspicious, but what was the fence repair guy doing at the time of the accident? Is it possible that one of his tools or some wire caused the injury and he panicked and blamed it on a horse?

Honu

Mar. 25, 2009, 09:10 PM

When my mare was a yearling she got a foot long, four inch deep gash on her barrel. When I finally got over the shock, we found that she had opened a screw eye thing and then ran into it. How she did it I will never know. Her's was stitched though. The vet did the inner most layers first than the next and finally the skin on the outside, so it took about three layers of stitching. She also didn't help much because she bit at them and rubbed half of them out. I cleaned it everyday and she was put on antibiotics and bute for a few days. It left a nasty scar but healed great! I really hope you boy heals fast and fully. I agree to look for something metal and check everything in the field. Horses get hurt on some weird things.

nervousalter

Mar. 25, 2009, 09:10 PM

Thank you for the replies. Poor baby, indeed and he's been a real trooper about it. The vet had to tranq him to clean it Monday, but since then we just feed him carrots and he stands in the washrack and lets us doctor the wound with no fuss.

His paddock is about an acre. Mostly board fence in very good condition, one side barbed wire, but it's only about 4' high - lower than the wound and I can't see how wire would be able to penetrate so very far.

We walked the paddock 4 times looking at trees and looking at the ground. Could find nothing. No trace of hair or blood anywhere.

nervousalter

Mar. 25, 2009, 09:15 PM

Lulu, I'd be lying if I said that the thought hadn't crossed my mind. Heath can be nippy and to me, it looks like a shovel wound.

If you magnify that photo, center it to the wound and look halfway up her hand (towards his topline), you can see a small area with hair missing. That's the end of another mark that's as long as the deep cup with a slight curve to it.

equinelaw

Mar. 25, 2009, 09:30 PM

Hmmm. Fence repair guy even had another suspect lined up? Just sayn':no:

Horsegal984

Mar. 25, 2009, 09:33 PM

Looks like a post hole digger to me. It could have been leaned up against a tree or someone could have taken a swing at him. I don't like to think the worst of people, I wouldn't be at all suprised to find out it was an accident and the fence guy jnst paniced, or he didn't see it happen and actually saw his pasture mate licking at the wound assumed it happened then.

EqTrainer

Mar. 25, 2009, 09:35 PM

Hmmm. Fence repair guy even had another suspect lined up? Just sayn':no:

It does make you wonder.

dwblover

Mar. 25, 2009, 09:43 PM

Oh man, that really looks like it could be from a shovel. I hope not.

goodpony

Mar. 25, 2009, 09:48 PM

I was going to say wire after reading the description....but now Im going with T-Post.

Larbear

Mar. 25, 2009, 09:49 PM

Simkie

Mar. 25, 2009, 09:51 PM

Whatever he did that on doesn't need to be sharp. I saw a similarly clean, even cut when a mare got too close to an eyebolt--the round part, not the pointy part. She laid herself open from the point of her shoulder to her hip, skin draping open. Enough force will cause very clean edges with items you would never think of as sharp.

dwblover

Mar. 25, 2009, 09:57 PM

Yes, but five inches deep? That is very strange.

Simkie

Mar. 25, 2009, 10:01 PM

Yes, but five inches deep? That is very strange.

Absolutely. The mare who ripped on the eyebolt was the same way. Whole hands/wrists could disappear into various places on her wound.

cyriz's mom

Mar. 25, 2009, 10:09 PM

I vote for aliens.

I had a mare a few years who was probed in the right hip by aliens. Wound was about 3-4" in diameter and 6" deep. You could stick your fist in it...yuck. No was to stitch because of the drainage issue...this was on the top of her rump in the meaty part. Luckily it healed well, but it was a nasty mess and we had to high pressure hose down inside the wound to try to get the the yuck out twice a day.

We could find nothing in the pasture that explained the injury, no sign of blood anywhere.

Thus it became clear that it was aliens.

Perhaps your aliens' probe missed the target a bit which would explain why his wound is more front to back than top to bottom.

Hope he heals well!

Equibrit

Mar. 25, 2009, 10:19 PM

The fence repair guy being there might give you a clue. Nails sticking up, pulled wire etc, etc.
Which is now fixed ??

joharavhf

Mar. 25, 2009, 10:20 PM

mvp

Mar. 25, 2009, 10:23 PM

He and the fencing guy started playing quarters and then.... well.... brothers don't squeal on brothers.

The good news is that if you keep this wound open and cleaned, it will heal from the inside out, leaving a small scar. Let your good sport of a horse make up any story he likes about it.

ThisTooShallPass

Mar. 25, 2009, 10:32 PM

"Oh dear God," instantly popped out of my mouth.

paintedtrails

Mar. 25, 2009, 10:35 PM

Although it is coming from the opposite direction, it looks and sounds a lot like what happened to the horse I was leasing a while back. He apparently stood his ground to another horse kicking him and it sliced into the muscle like that...where you could stick your whole hand in, it opened with walking, and had no way to be sticthed. So maybe a kick isn't entirely out of the question?? (he got kicked in almost the exact same spot at least 4x to that damage)
The first month consisted of 3-5x daily cleaning of the wound. In the end, it healed great with just a small pucker and the vets were amazed at how good it looked. He was ridable after about 2 months, light work as he was getting bored (also a lesson horse). The only remnant is some stifness, but we think that is scar tissue and if you just give him a good massage on that spot he loves it and leans into it.

Hugs to your guy! Ours fell in love with fruit-loop treats used to keep him occupied some mornings. LOL :)

MistyBlue

Mar. 25, 2009, 10:35 PM

I wouldn;t think shovel unless the center of that cut is much deeper than the ends. Considering the length of the cut it would have to be the corner of a shovel and that would make a deeper center wound.
What type of fencing is he out in? If t-posts I'd say that's a normal looking common wound for t-posts.
If there are wood posts, go check the top edges of all of them. A horse running around playing or fleeing can and will turn fast at the fenceline and can have their hooves slide out from under them. They can come down hard on the top edges of fence posts if the posts are lower than their backs/withers. The top of a fence post can do damage like that.
Poor fellow...you had to have been shocked to see that.

nervousalter

Mar. 25, 2009, 10:45 PM

Simkie, how did she heal? Did she lay on it or rub up against it? When I go out tomorrow, I'll take another look for less sharp objects.

Cyriz's Mom, I'm in South Texas. You just spooked my SO out. How did your mare do?

MVP, I'll come back and laugh when I know that he beat the infection - I'm deathly scared that he won't make it.

Right now our cleaning protocol (per the vet) is:

AM: BO hoses it off, puts Triple Antibiotic on it, puts swat around it, then puts vaseline down his leg to keep it from scalding from the drainage (horrible chunky, bloody mess).

PM (takes 3 of us): We scrub the surrounding area with Betadine Scrub, hose off, scrub again, hose off, gently clean the opening with Betadine Scrub, hose off, clean the inside of the wound with a diluted Betadine solution (hand in horse), hose off, repeat, using a 60cc syringe we squirt the solution into the wound, hose off, repeat, then using a syringe we squirt water into the wound, repeat, then with a smaller syringe we squirt Triple Antibiotic into the wound, then we apply Triple Antibiotic to the opening, then we apply Swat around the wound, then apply the vaseline on his entire leg, then lightly spray his hip with Endure.

I've got to worm him every two weeks until it heals in case flies got to it.

joharavhf, I don't like having the thought - that it was deliberate would kill me.

The wire has metal t-posts. The wood is capped (2"x6" boards laying flat on top of the wood posts). There are no splintered edges and no trace of hair or blood anywhere.

Simkie

Mar. 25, 2009, 11:11 PM

Simkie, how did she heal? Did she lay on it or rub up against it? When I go out tomorrow, I'll take another look for less sharp objects.

Actually healed quite well. It took some time, and she was on Naxcel for several weeks. When all was said and done, she had a couple minor scars on the barrel and on the hip. You would have never known how bad it was by how it wound up.

I've also seen a mare deglove a hind on smooth barbless wire. She look her leg down to the bone for several inches badly enough that there was no saving her. I mention only because when we walked the field, the ONLY evidence was a VERY small amount of hair of the piece of wire. You'd expect blood, tissue, hair, etc...but there was none. I'm not sure how much evidence you're looking for, but there might be very little.

jaimebaker

Mar. 25, 2009, 11:16 PM

Well, after being horrified I went back and read your first post. I don't know any shovel that at 5 inches length/depth is only 4" wide. Maybe a spade shovel but not a normal shovel. I don't think anyway. I would so be pulling some forensic s*&% out and checking all of his tools. It would make me sick as well to think it was intentional. But I've known horses to be literally impaled on t-posts. Especially if trying to get away from another horse. My trainer had a mare impale herself through her side trying to get away from an alpha mare. They actually had to cut her off the post.:eek: She did make a full recovery though.

As far as horses being injured with no signs of blood or fur anywhere, well gosh, I don't know what I'd do if I actually FOUND what my horses get hurt on. I had a filly cut her hock wide open and I was there when it happened. Didn't see it happen but I know where she was and checked everything and not a sign of anything. It boggles the mind. Sending jingles for a speedy recovery.

MistyBlue

Mar. 25, 2009, 11:17 PM

fooler

Mar. 25, 2009, 11:28 PM

Someone noted how horses have a knack for seriously damaging themselves. Even more amazing is how they do it & we can not discover their tools.

Years ago at my old barn received a horse for training and later that day the BO's made their first trip away to take care of a family issue. Barn was left in control of the 'children' ranging from 16 - 26, plus adults who would check provide oversight.
Anywho the new horse, settled in his new stall, manages to cut a gash in his shoulder - about 3 inches long and several inches deep. Vet came out & treated and the horse healed nicely.

Wierd part is we all combed thru the stall, could not find anything evidence of blood, hair, scrambling - anything. Plus at least 6 other horses were in that stall over about 20+ years and none of them were injured. Some horses are just talented that way. :(
FYI - same barn, some years later a yearling managed to jam a stick into the sole of his hoof. Farrier had to put a shoe+plate so the hole could be cleaned & treated. They were having loads of fun treating him after a week or so of stall rest (too much mud to let him out)

Hope your fellow heals quickly & it turns out to be an accident - not the fence guy. Good Luck

GallopGal

Mar. 25, 2009, 11:33 PM

Cant believe you couldnt get a vet to come out for 2 days. Wasnt there any place you could have taken him too. A clinic or university?

greysandbays

Mar. 25, 2009, 11:54 PM

Agree with Simkie...they don't always leave blatant evidence.
Look at the ground...look for skid marks, slide marks, anything like that where he might have slipped/fallen or scrambled away or up off the ground. If they go down hard they tend to scramble back up fast so look for deep dig marks too.

And remember to look way higher and way lower than you can possibly imagine might have done it. My one experience with a huge 3-corner tear on the broadside of a horse's thigh had the tell-tale evidence less than a foot off the ground. Sure wasn't much considering the size of the wound...

silver2

Mar. 26, 2009, 12:00 AM

Maybe he cut it rolling. You find all kinds of weird stuff buried in pastures: old tin cans, wire, posts, tiles, old pipes. They can work their way to the surface and are very hard to find.

Or it was aliens.

Mersy

Mar. 26, 2009, 02:50 AM

Ive seen similar wounds caused by a nail that had backed out of its hole in the doorway of a barn. The nail was barely noticeable since it was discolored and blended in with the woodwork, you had to run your hands over it to find it.
Ive also seen t-posts cause wounds in odd areas.
I would examine every inch of your fence and barn because it could easily become a repeat offender if not found.

BEARCAT

Mar. 26, 2009, 10:37 AM

Yep, it doesn't need to be something big.
Years ago, my dog was walking in front of me at the barn and yelped in pain. He had just barely grazed a piece of wire looped around a post and twisted back unto itself. The pointy twisty part was sticking out and cut him to the quick - a huge flap of skin.
He needed over 70 stitches, drain tube, etc...
I wouldn't have beleived it if it hadn't happened in front om my eyes!

Hope your boy heals quick.

cyriz's mom

Mar. 26, 2009, 10:38 AM

My mare healed remarkably well. During the winter, you can't even see the scar and it's hardly noticeable in the summer.

I'm sure it must have been a tree stump or something that she rolled onto or something, but the alien story is much more entertaining! LOL We just could not find anything that explained it, especially the location.

LisaB

Mar. 26, 2009, 01:20 PM

:dead::dead::dead::dead:
check the fencing and trees for splinters (HUGE) or nails or something jagged. Check all horse's feet for nails kind of poking out.
Check to see if alpha horse is hiding his grill

rtrules

Mar. 26, 2009, 01:42 PM

I have a horse that had pretty much the exact same injury. DH was bringing horses in to the barn. He went to grab my little mare's halter and she backed up into a stall door handle. Not the latch part but, the handle itself. Seems DH didn't flip the handle down on the stall latch when he let the horses out. Basically, she impaled herself the depth of the latch handle and also tore some of the flesh. There were fat globules on the stall door left behind from the impalement. It took a total of 48 stitches in two layers to close her up. She was never lame, and only stocked up a little bit in the hind leg. All that is evident now is a sutured scar with very slight dimpling at the suture line. That is definetly an impalement wound. Be sure to protect it from the bugs if it is left open. Good luck

Beverley

Mar. 26, 2009, 01:50 PM

Over 35 years ago, a mare (w/foal at side, uninjured) had a far worse wound on a shoulder- 65 stitches in the muscle plus re-stitching the skin with at least that many, as I recall.

She was in a perfectly well manicured paddock, board fencing, and a bunch of us went over every square inch of that paddock several times. No evidence. No protruding nails, nothing on the ground, not even a rock. Stranger at night w/knife was a thought but really no evidence in support of the theory.

A couple of years ago, my gelding laid open a hind leg in a paddock, while I was working w/horses in the barn and another paddock- and right then we looked for how he did it...and found nothing.

They really can injure/kill themselves in the proverbial padded stall.

katarine

Mar. 26, 2009, 01:54 PM

I can't see how an average man could inflict that amount of damage- pointed down and toward the tail, with a shovel, guys, unless the horse is bounded/tethered/stuck in the stocks, and the guy is up a protected ladder. The physics are just all wrong. Seriously, conspiracy theorists much? LOL.

He just did something stupid in the pasture. By all means, walk it, check it, up and down. But horses are horses and seriously, they do the damnedest things.

sid

Mar. 26, 2009, 02:05 PM

A very hard blow at close range from a horse can cause a clean laceration, with the muscle tisse below "blowing open", causing a wound of that depth. A lot of very deep punctures are cause by a blow/kick...not actually becoming impaled by or on something.

I'd suspect a kick.

Angela Freda

Mar. 26, 2009, 02:09 PM

If you magnify that photo,.... center it to the wound and look halfway up her hand (towards his topline),...
Uh no thanks, I'm trying to keep my lunch down already.
Holy crap!

Sentry Chick

Mar. 26, 2009, 02:35 PM

My mare had a huge gash on her hip that was from my gelding biting her as she was kicking out at him. So she was ripped wide open. I saw him bite her while she was kicking. It required 3 layers of stitches and a drainage tube to fix her.

http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y111/msprague/Glis%20wound/

sid

Mar. 26, 2009, 03:29 PM

Yes, seen this type of thing with a horse bite as well. One of my mares required 53 stitched for a gaping hold you could put your fist in from a bite to her rear end. She was savaged, not merely warned with a bite. A horse that is serious about harming another can do some major damage! To the OP, I'd be very concerned about the horse that the man found biting your horse.

Mar. 26, 2009, 03:35 PM

She was in a perfectly well manicured paddock, board fencing, and a bunch of us went over every square inch of that paddock several times. No evidence. No protruding nails, nothing on the ground, not even a rock. Stranger at night w/knife was a thought but really no evidence in support of the theory.
That also lends credence to having just "slammed" herself against something - ran into the flat side of a fence board, or the fence post, or slipped while running and slammed the ground. Ever dropped a ripe orange or grapefruit just right? It can put a big honkin' split in the skin and top layer of underlying fruit.