Driveway Invaders

[crzychestnutrider]

I have a very long driveway(over 1/2 mile, bush/scrub on either side), it opens up nearer the house. Said driveway is CLEARLY posted with "no trespassing, trespassers will be prosecuted, guard dog on duty". The final straw was this afternoon when I was taking the German Shepherd for his training walk. Someone has left a bright yellow used condom in the middle of my drive about 1/2 way down:mad: I am SO fed up with this stuff! I barely keep my temper in check when I spend hours cleaning the sides of others household garbage bags, I pick up the empty booze bottles, I remain polite(barely) when I find people in various states of undress, I did not send the Shepherd to attack the man urinating in the middle of the driveway near the house. BUT this is IT! War is declared! I've tried calling the cops many times but they are always too long getting here(I do realize they may be busy with important crimes). But come on, every single time?
Whew! Rant over...but seriously what are my options? Say if I was "target" shooting my paintball gun in my CLEARLY marked drive and "accidently" hit the vehicle? Or maybe a "stray" BB missed the target and hit the windshield of Daddy's BMW? What about a nail strip across the driveway? Scratch that I'd probably forget to remove it in the morning;)
Any suggestions anyone?

[MelantheLLC]

solar powered gate

[Chase23]

do you have a gate? maybe some electric fencing

[crzychestnutrider]

my bad:o I forgot to mention a gate is not an option d/t the fact the drive is shared with a lawnbowling club. Their part shoots off near the house and is another 1/2 mile long.

[Parker_Rider]

Maybe a gate could be an option... I can't imagine the lawnbowling club (what is lawnbowling, btw? I've never heard of it!!) likes driving up to see trashbags, random people and used condoms (ew!). Maybe if you could coordinate with them about the gate code/lock combo it could work out. Even a simple chain could deter most people.

You could also put up a "Trespassers will be shot" sign and then if your paintball gun *accidentally* hits their car... hey, they were forewarned!! ;)

[Seven-up]

Ewww. What about a security camera with a sign that says embarrassing pictures will be posted on the internet?:lol:

You can bet if I'd carry a camera with me if I knew I was likely to find half naked people in my driveway! Just for fun!:yes:

Is there any law that says you can't pelt people with paintballs if they're trespassing? Non-lethal and amusing.

[EponaRoan]

Ewww. What about a security camera with a sign that says embarrassing pictures will be posted on the internet?

Or "Caution: Live Internet Feed"! :lol::lol: Rig up a few cameras and start a subscription site.

I can understand the gate thing, but do the lawn bowling people just use their area at specific times? I can't imagine they'd use it between say 9pm-6am most of the time. And if you locked it up then, you'd avoid the lover's lane/party town activity. Perhaps something to discuss with them in any case. Or even if a gate wasn't locked, it still might deter some of the activity.

At least they're practicing safe sex! Yay?

[Seven-up]

At least they're practicing safe sex! Yay?

Between the German Shepard and the paintball gun, I don't think it'll be safe for long!!:lol:

[crzychestnutrider]

Snort!!!! Safe sex my a**! The mood I'm in tonight someone's losing something:mad: Mr GSD and myself just had a very good refresher on his off leash responses, paintball gun is loaded with flourescent(sp?) orange. We may just have to go walkies tonight after midnight:cool:

[Seven-up]

Can't wait to hear the story tomorrow! Aim for the giblets!:lol:

[sublimequine]

Can't wait to hear the story tomorrow! Aim for the giblets!:lol:

Ohhhh that made me laugh. :lol:

We all want a full report tomorrow morning! :winkgrin:

[crzychestnutrider]

shhhhhh, be vewy, vewy quiet

[seeuatx]

A YELLOW condom.... seriously? They aren't very good at being inconspicuous are they? :lol:

I like the idea of signs indicating video cameras and posting on the internet. Probably don't even have to buy real cameras... just arrange some bushes to LOOK like they are hiding things ;)

[tarragon]

Is there a way you can rig a very bright light on a motion sensor? That might ruin the mood and effectively scare off trespassers.

[CatOnLap]

surely the lawnbowling club is not open after dark? Would they mind a gate that was locked sundown to sun up?

[PNWjumper]

I vote for a light of some sort.

The people who lived here before me were having problems with teenagers parking across the street from the driveway because it was dark and off the main road. They ended up having the power company install a light that runs about $12 a month and that did the trick. No more used condoms, no more beer bottles, no more garbage all over the road.

[MistyBlue]

Lawn bowling is Bocci isn't it?
You can buy battery or solar powered motion detection lights to install a short way in from the end of your driveway. People parking, partying or peeing won't stick around if they pull in and get lit up like an alien invasion. I'd get two...Home Depot sells them I think. One for about 1 car length in from the garage and the second 6 car lengths from there. People pulling in will think the entire driveway will keep lighting up and leave. And you'll know when people pull in when you see the glow at night coming from your driveway. :winkgrin:
You can also get a driveway sensor...I have one. They're run by remote...the sensor can be attached to a post or a tree (it's not really visible, very small) near the end of your driveway and the base goes in the house or where you want it plugged in. Every Time a vehicle passes the sensor, the inside base beeps.
If you want to have fun with it...get a bullhorn too and every time the sensor beeps walk outside and yell through the bullhorn, "Get out!"

[MunchkinsMom]

It would be even better if you could rig the sensor to trigger a recording of a big barking dog or a very loud siren. Not sure if you have any close neighbors that would be annoyed by the noise (although I am guessing the answer is no since so many folks are using it for "parking" and other activities.

[ReSomething]

I was going to say gate but you have the same problem I used to have, ie multiple users.

We just called the sheriff an awful lot and took trash bags on every walk. Bottles and cans have redemption value in that state, sometimes I made out pretty good LOL.

Really I feel for you, our private road was sort of our "space" since the county didn't take care of it. I can remember more annoying incidents with parking kids, wannabe campers, trash dumpers etc etc.

I think the lights might be a good solution, also if the other user is an entity like a club they may go for a gate open from dawn till dusk. Surely the membership doesn't find garbage and debris on their primary access appealing.

[Frank B]

Install a game surveillance camera and put the pictures on YouTube! :winkgrin:

[LisaB]

Okay, I was just eating a banana! Seriously! :lol::lol:
We don't quite have the same issue as you but a huge long driveway nonetheless.
Do you have power poles along it? Maybe you can get the power company to put one of those lights up.
Also, tell the cops. They LOVE to bust in on fun like that.

[txladybug]

Install a solar gate and give the bowling club their own code. Ask them to pay for half for "security reasons" and if they don't, well it will still be worth it for you. My driveway is two miles long. I can't tell you how relieved I was when the gate went up.

[Mosey_2003]

That's horrible, we have the same trouble with beer bottles here. Did want to mention though that you might want to rethink your signs, I've heard that if you post guard dog signs and the dog actually *does* bite someone you can be sued because you 'acknowledged' that the dog was dangerous. Plain No Trespassing signs would be safer.

[M. O'Connor]

I'd view the lawn bowlers as a positive, as long as you give them the gate code they shouldn't mind a gate, and might help pay for it.

[Jaegermonster]

I found some signs that just say "Dog on premises". They don't say that he's "bad" or he's a guard dog, or have apicture of a dog with his teeth showing. They just say there is one.
People can interpret that however they want :)
the sign under it that says armed owner who is a good shot is probably the one they need to be worrying about ;)

[EponaRoan]

The sign on my (locked) gate says:

"Dogs in yard. Do not enter."

I always thought that:

"Be aware of dog" would be a good one. :lol:

Bright lights that get tripped when people drive up would be good. But mounted high enough that they can't reach 'em.

It's a shame they don't have some sort of 'be gone' spray for humans.

So - did you catch anyone last night? Inquiring minds want to know?

[Alagirl]

"Never mind the dog - BEWARE OF OWNER" :lol:

And I thought my wanna be thug neighbors were bad..... :winkgrin:

[crzychestnutrider]

Today's update: Longish

No one last night, that I'm aware of(fell asleep around 3ish). Had some excitment this morning:eek: From my bathroom window I can see entire length of driveway. I notice a dark colored car just sitting there. Throw on some clothes, grab paint gun, grab big very protective German Shepherd,a pen and paper and head out. I take a path that I know will put me out on the drive in front of the car. Just before I exit the bush I jot down the plate #. I walk out just like I was on an every day walkie, turn toward the car and start walking. I can see one person who looks like they are asleep(head back, mouth open). I get closer, no movement. I reach the bumper and tap on the hood, nothing:confused: I rap the hood very hard and the guy's eyes fly open! His mouth moves like he's talking and all of a sudden another head pops up. OMG(where's the barf icon when you really need it) Low and behold it's another guy! Butt naked:eek: Driver rolls down the window and starts stammering something about birdwatching:lol: I suggest he get out while his "friend" gets dressed. For whatever reason HE starts getting angry with me, who up until now has been the epitomy of politeness. I explain that as this is posted private property and no trespass I will be giving the local cops his plate# Now this is where it gets creepy....he starts toward me, yelling. Big dog takes care of that action really fast! Low belly growls and hackles up:D Man gets in car and tries to reason with me about the cops...cries his WIFE will leave him:eek: I tell him that just makes me want to call even more! Lowlife scum! He burns out the drive, I get to the house just a little shaky in the knees. Called the cops and reported his plate and was informed they would pay him a visit today. YAY score one for me!

For all those suggesting a gate; tried but the clubbers want no part of it! Many are elderly and there are also functions going on like weddings etc. I DO like the idea of battery/solar motion lights though! Thanks

[slpeders]

Wow. Just.....Wow.
Good for you for getting the license plate, and I'd go with lights at least ASAP.
I'm thinking the video posted on youtube isn't bad either....but i'm feeling kind of evil today. ;)

[EponaRoan]

Low and behold it's another guy! Butt naked:eek: Driver rolls down the window and starts stammering something about birdwatchingIn this case, I guess a bird in the bush was worth two in the hand. :lol::lol:

More seriously, the aggression was scary - good thing you had the GSD there. My little GSD bitch was awesome when I had the Bad Neighbors - she loathed them and would just stand there and growl softly whenever one would come to our door. She'd make hella noise if they were doing something by the gate or in their backyard too close to the house. And no, she doesn't do this to everyone. My boy -- well, he walks softly and carries big teeth. Anyway, with the getting out/coming towards you yelling, I think that should involve the police making a visit. Perhaps carry your cell phone with you in case someone gets really nutty?

[LisaB]

Aww, camera, forgot the camera! Send wifey the picture! At least they weren't doing the other nasty!

[goodhors]

You might want to add a camera to your arsenal for taking plate numbers. Shot of the car with plate, in your drive, for evidence, if things get sticky.

Wow, I REALLY feel for you and the difficulties you face! Have you thought about a gate in your private drive? Located past the turnoff for bowling folks, with some fence on both sides to make walking thru more difficult to reach your house. Too bad about the bowling club folks. Maybe you could dump some of the trash on their side to see what you deal with. You are doing them a service with prompt clean-up of ALL the messes on the shared drive. Trash attracts more trash, so it has to be kept picked up. I clean alongside our road ditch. Sure can add up if ignored.

Glad to hear the dog is taking his work seriously, yet staying under control for you. I do like the sign ideas, "photos posted on the Internet, sold to the local newspaper or TV station" might have some effect. The bullhorn does sound like fun!! Blaring out into the night as they turn off the vehicles.

Loose dog signs are better than guard dog signs. Though in my experience, folks ignore the "Don't Enter, Loose Dogs Inside" sign on gate as easily as if there were no sign. I really yell at folks who walk on in, ignoring the Corgi. "What part of DON'T ENTER, do you not understand??!! Of course now with the Bouvier jumping up to look them in the eye, entry problem has much improved. They just give her LOTS more respect, SPACE, though still a puppy.

The detector at driveway entrance might be your best weapon and alerting system. You hear when they break the light beam, decide what you want to do. Deer could be a problem with that, but a light going on, would show them to you. Some fencing length on both sides of drive, should help keep them funneled onto the main drive, not wandering thru "by accident".

Any wiring you do, should be run thru conduit, to prevent cutting easily. This would be the TV cameras, lights that go on, up in the air. I would put up more than two motion lights, on the drive. You WANT the invaders lit well, not thinking they can get beyond the light and it is gone.

Best of luck with your problem. People and their sense of entitlement to using other folks things is SO AMAZING! And they get so ANGRY when called on it!! Trying to put YOU in the wrong. Hope the word gets around about what a bad place you have, your meanness, so they quit coming to bug you.

[arabhorse2]

Ewww, just ewww. :dead:

I don't care what two consenting adults do in private, but I sure as heck have a problem with it if it's on my property.

Sorry about your troubles. I think the motion sensor halogen lights are a good idea.

I'm planning to put a gate at the end of my driveway. It's nowhere as long as yours, but people think it's okay to drive down to my house and go "pet the horsies"! :o

I plan to hot wire the gate, just like the fencing. I need to do that to keep out unwanted animals of all species. ;)

[Curb Appeal]

I know one neighborhood that has a gate that will open if you drive up really close to it. The folks in the neighborhood know how to open it but outsiders would rarely bother to get close enough to figure out the trigger. Perhaps your bowling club would be agreeable to this. Keep it open during the day and close it at night. Anyone there after hours could be told how to open it. If there is an event going on, leave it open and have the last out shut it.

[crzychestnutrider]

I loff my GSD! He's such a good boy! He's usually a big goofball with people but I find he is very sensitive to "vibes" I throw off and reacts according to them. I have very rarely seen this side of him but I have no doubts he'll protect me with his life. The belly growls were awesome and all his hackles on his back went up too!

LisaB; snort:lol::lol: I think was too busy picking my jaw of the driveway to worry about snapping pics even if I'd had my camera

[broodmare]

Your driveway varmits must be a hardy sort...isn't it still cold up there? I get a lot of unpleasant traffic down here in Pa. but not until the weather gets warmer. We got motion sensor lights and a doberman. The motion sensors work pretty well, the doberman is the goofiest dog I've ever owned.

[Chall]

Orange sodium lights - very high up, with metal grid guards AND cameras with the same.
I most definitely would not want to put you at risk.
Although you were safe today (thank God) when you start this type of thing you can run a real danger to yourself. I would advise you to NOT do the same thing again.
Not worth it.

[VirginiaBred]

This is an enlightening thread.
OMG.

Motion lights are a good idea. A camera is a great idea.

[lizathenag]

motion sensor attached to a rainbird sprinkler. . .and lights

[Lori B]

Please don't rig up a light that is on all the time at night. Please please please. Something on a motion sensor is fine, but full time lights that are on in the country (and I'm assuming you are out a bit from full city) use energy unnecessarily (however little) and are a big source of light pollution.

If I lived out away from town, one of the benefits is being able to see the stars. And a yard full of mercury vapor lights just destroys that.

I also really like the idea of a camera w/ an internet feed. Even if it's only a sign.

If you rig it right, you could capture the license plate numbers. There's the answer. Call mom & dad.

[cloudyandcallie]

Ewww. What about a security camera with a sign that says embarrassing pictures will be posted on the internet?:lol:

You can bet if I'd carry a camera with me if I knew I was likely to find half naked people in my driveway! Just for fun!:yes:

Is there any law that says you can't pelt people with paintballs if they're trespassing? Non-lethal and amusing.

Oh the security camera/wildlife camera is a great idea, just don't warn them, and then give the pix to the cops, or to the newspaper for publication:lol:

Unfortunately if you do hit them with a good paintball, they will probably sue you. As long as they are alive they can sue your or vandalize you, and people get upset when I suggest SSS. (leave no witnesses)

You could sneak up on them at night and take pix, or unscrew the tag off of the car while they are practicing "safe sex" and then get a cop to run the tag for you.

Is this the lawn bowling like they old guys used to do in Golden Gate Park? Cool.

My father when I was a kid solved the problem in our driveway by taking his gun out and explaining the private property rule to some guy and his girlfriend. And when I boarded at one private barn, I got a retired atlanta cop who was then working as a cop for chatham co to come out and get a guy who was driving around and casing the houses during the day. He never came back after Chip went to his house and told his parents what was what.

[Jaegermonster]

I think I might be tempted to get a piece of 1by and then pound some really nice long nails through it.
Then after I know I'm in for the night and the bowlers aren't coming through, go put it across the drive.
When they get done with their festivities and try to leave, won't that be funny?
I wonder if AAA can find your place.
And of course you would pick it back up during the day.

[cloudyandcallie]

Well, your driveway isn't fenced, but at dog shows you can buy the following sign:

"My (breed, my sign says Australian Shepherd) can make it to the fence in 10 seconds. Can you?"

[jilltx]

In this case, I guess a bird in the bush was worth two in the hand. :lol::lol:


*snort* :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Seriously, sounds like your driveway is seeing more action than the Vegas strip! Sounds like you've got some good advice. Good luck!!

[cloudyandcallie]

spike stick.

check out police equipment catalogues.

[Seven-up]

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: Speechless.

[Jaegermonster]

I actually have two sets in my garage. Only they are 1) expensive, and 2) one use only.
I don't think the sheriff would like me using them, and I don't really want to buy them. A piece of wood with some screws is cheaper and reusable.

[cloudyandcallie]

but she'll get both front (or rear) tyres at the same time. and that requires AAA and gives her time to get the deputies out if they aren't working traffic.

Or maybe set up a condom machine in the driveway and poke holes in all the raincoats?:lol:

[Seven-up]

Ok, now that I've composed myself, here's my suggestion.

Camera #1 gets a pic of their license plate. Camera #2 set up to record in-car activities. A sign that warns of both, along with a note that warns photos will be sent to their home address and/or posted on the net.


At any rate, I think if you have any further encounters with people, the very first words out of your mouth should be, "You're on camera right now." Whether or not they actually are; they don't know that. However, I'd be concerned for both your safety and your dog's. People do all sorts of crazy things to avoid getting caught, erm, with their pants down. ;)

I wonder if you could make a phone call to the cops and say that after last night's events, you feel threatened, and can they maybe do one or 2 drive-bys at night?

[SmokenMirrors]

I word of caution, with the yahoo's that are out there now, you may have a big mean dog, but if someone wants to cause harm, I would be very careful who I piss off and who I make angry when living far out in the country. Some folks now a days will feel like you screwed with their life and will want revenge. Just be careful and safe!!

[Jaegermonster]

[QUOTE=cloudyandcallie;3977456]but she'll get both front (or rear) tyres at the same time. and that requires AAA and gives her time to get the deputies out if they aren't working traffic.

QUOTE]

A big long stick all the way across the driveway will do the same thing and be easier to conceal by covering the 1by with some dirt.

[Curiously]

motion sensor attached to a rainbird sprinkler. . .and lights

:eek: I love that idea!! :cool::yes: A good soaking may convince the, um, romantic types, to go elsewhere. *evil grin*

I also like the driveway alarm so that you know when someone trips the alarm after hours. Can it be turned off during daytime hours so you won't be bothered by the club next door?

Cameras -- both stationary mounted and in-hand, should you feel you need to approach someone again -- are a good idea. For a while, the city had only a few working traffic light cameras, but mounted *fake* cameras at lots of intersections. They moved the *real* cameras around (or so they claimed) so that you didn't know if a specific intersection had a working camera or not. (They later got many more cameras. The main result at the intersection closest to me the entire time a real or fake camera was installed was MANY more rear-end fender-benders because people would slam on their brakes to avoid the chance of a ticket. :rolleyes::dead::no::mad: But I digress...:winkgrin:) My point being, you could mount a bunch of fake cameras -- square wooden box with a round glass *lens* sticking out and pointed at the driveway. Paint it bright orange so it can be *seen* by trespassers -- and mount it high enough in a tree to be difficult to vandalize. Post multiple signs saying that all visitors will be filmed.

Good luck. And keep us posted on how it goes. :yes:

[blaster]

I would seriously consider de-bushing the driveway. We had a public dirt road, and had the some activity on weekends. Now that the area is more visable, the incidents have drastically decreased.

On a side note, we did have some fun with the hand-held 1M candlepowder fishing light....a few weekends in a row during the summer and it drastically seemed to cut the traffic also.

[Pocket Pony]

Wow, that was quite an encounter! I second the caution to be careful. You never know what will set someone off and even though it sounds like you have a great GSD, you never know if someone may be armed and dangerous.

We had a driveway intruder here this morning - the Jehova's Witnesses. I wish I hadn't been napping or I would have told them that I am a pirate and a disciple of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Sigh, maybe next time.

;)

[Alagirl]

hmmm, laser pointers are very cheap these days...


I still can't get over the nekked guys in the car, dunno if I should laugh or throw up... :eek::eek::lol::lol::confused::confused::lol::lol:

[cssutton]

A question:

The driveway splits.

Between the public road and the split, on whose property? Yours? The bowling folks?

Someone else?

If it is your property, I would politely tell the bowlers that I am going to put up a gate, give them keys or combinations (there are gates now that you can open without ever getting out of your car) and politely tell them that you are sorry that they consider it an inconvenience, but that is the way it is going to be.

If they own the land, then you will have to put the gate at your split.

Or put up the lights.

I would not go out and confront them again if I were you.

Actually, I would and I have, but that is me and not you.

You will get hurt. I will not get hurt, but the other guy probably will.

You do need to be concerned about someone getting mad and burning your barn. That happens regularly.

Dogs get poisoned. Very easy to do. A little anti-freeze in a shallow dish......

So there are risks.

The lights on an eye will not get you shot or your barn burned. That is not the same as a confrontation.

As for publishing photos, different states have different laws about that but generally speaking there are legal problems in publishing photos of persons without their permission. Only recently, and I forget where, a judge ruled that telling the truth about a person WITH THE INTENTION of causing them harm constitutes slander. In writing or photos it would be libel.

The person who claimed to have been slandered won damages even though he had been convicted of embezzlement.

Previous to that decision, the law has always been that the truth is your protection.

But we are now entering a new age in so many things.

But published photos might cause a barn fire.

Either the gate or the lights unless you are willing to take risks.

Paintballs are considered a weapon by most courts. Don't. You will be in a lot more trouble than the guy with no pants will be.

CSSJR

[ReSomething]

Our old driveway was a private road and served about 20 houses, so there was no way we could get all the neighbors to agree on a gate. Cssutton has a point though, if the driveway is over your property you could politely inform the lawn bowlers that they are getting a pretty gate, period.

I really think you will be better off if you get the light(s), reduce the vegetation and as a last ditch gate at the split and consciously ignore the front part of the driveway. Let the lawn bowlers rent their facility out with trash all down the main entry and see what happens.
I would definitely report this to the cops and make sure they know you were approached and felt threatened, but unless you gate the entire length of the driveway you are going to be focussing a lot of mental energy on a space that you cannot control.
And there are some real loonies out there, looking for some "private" place to be loonies. Better not to waste your time dealing with them at all. One day one might have a gun.

[nightsong]

A motion-activated light will piss people off. They find a nice, dark spot, get all excited, turn in the drive, are almost at the spot and WHAM bright lights. They KNOW these are put up by homeowners as security devices and thus have someone to BLAME. I'd suspect you'd have your lights shot out pretty darned fast. Streetlights (or stay-on lights that LOOK like them) are considered a fact of life, like the moon and stars. People will never CONSIDER parking near them in the first place.

[CB/TB]

Lights and cameras might be your best solution. A locked gate would work to an extent, however you'd need some sort of lock box for fire and police to gain access if needed. It's amazing how some people seem to think because they don't know who owns some property, it's free access for all. Idiots! I feel sorry for you having to pick up after slobs. Could you do something where your driveway veers off from the shared one? Really big light and some sort of gate? Even if it wasn't locked, just a visible boundary.

[baytraks]

We have a very long driveway, and have minimized this problem with a few simple steps.


1. Get a high powered spot light and whenever you think something is out there, point the spot light towards it.
2. Bring the video camera. We used to have problems with kids racing ATV's after midnight on the shared driveway and adjacent farm fields, but the police could not identify or catch them. One night we went out with a hand-held spotlight and hand held video camera. The expletive that came out of one kid's mouth when we turned on the light and camera as he raced past can not be repeated in polite company, but we never had this problem again!!
3. We do have a driveway alarm to alert us if anyone comes back all the way, any time of day, and we will be out asking them why they are on our private property.
4. The local youth seem to know that we are vigilant PITA's, and we treasure our reputation for being such pests!

Your goal is not actually confrontation, revenge, or prosecution of the jerk who is there, but getting word out that this is not the place to be.

Good luck!

[Lori B]

The OP said that the split is right up by her house, so gating at the split wouldn't solve the problem at all, since the trespassers are hanging out below the split.

I would be very skeptical that publishing pictures taken on one's own property by a camera whose presence was announced by a sign, of people who are, after all TRESPASSING is an actionable thing to do. Talk to a lawyer yourself, advice here is worth what you pay for it in that regard.

I suspect that you have a small group of repeat offenders, not thousands of different folks in your driveway. If you get rid of them, you should be fine for a while.

What has happened since you confronted the trespassers? I think they will be so afraid of getting outed to wives, etc. that they won't be coming back. The high schoolers making out is a different problem, of course.

[Blkarab]

This is such an enlightening thread! :eek::winkgrin: It's amazing what some people will do.

This is what my trainer did on her place.

She has a wonderful and beautiful wrought iron gate and about 2-3 years ago, installed a solar-powered automatic gate. The gate operates by remote control, but also has a manual opener on the other side, that is hidden and only known by a few people. So, if she has someone that needs to stop-by or house-sit, or the remote gives out, there is a way to open and close the gate manually. The gate will only shut when the remote is activated a second time or the button is pushed. It works great!

I would aproach the Lawnbowling club again, explain what you found last night and what a problem it is becoming. I would play the "I feel threatened" card and maybe suggest this type of a gate. I couldn't imagine that the club would be that opposed if they could see the benefits of less trash (human and otherwise), greater security for their club and visitors and less traffic on the property (which is less wear and tear). You could always offer to leave the gate open for those times when they have weddings or events.

I second putting in the motion lights. It will deter people from parking in the driveway and conducting their ummm business.:eek:

[scotchie]

Wow, just wow. :eek: Where is the barfing icon? Big pets to your pup. :) Let us know what other events you discover! :lol:

[lcw579]

I know one neighborhood that has a gate that will open if you drive up really close to it. The folks in the neighborhood know how to open it but outsiders would rarely bother to get close enough to figure out the trigger. Perhaps your bowling club would be agreeable to this. Keep it open during the day and close it at night. Anyone there after hours could be told how to open it. If there is an event going on, leave it open and have the last out shut it.

There was a gate like this at a private barn where we rode. For all the world it looked like Fort Knox but if you drove up slowly to a certain point the gates would just open. They were imposing though, so I'm sure that no one who wasn't told about how they worked would even consider trying it. It had a keypad so that it could also be locked up fully at night. I don't see how the bowling club could object to this type of arrangement.

As for your encounter, yikes! I don't know what I would have done - good for you for keeping your wits about you and getting the license number!

[ESG]

motion sensor attached to a rainbird sprinkler. . .and lights

I'd love to have seen Lover Boy explain THAT to his wife. "Oh, yeah, honey - we were just out birdwatching and fell into a pool." Yep, that'd work.

Be even better if you could load the bottom of the sprinkler with dye. Permanent dye. But that's me and I'm evil like that. :cool:

I word of caution, with the yahoo's that are out there now, you may have a big mean dog, but if someone wants to cause harm, I would be very careful who I piss off and who I make angry when living far out in the country. Some folks now a days will feel like you screwed with their life and will want revenge. Just be careful and safe!!

Quite true. Direct confrontation might be more emotionally satisfying, but it could also get you killed if the trespasser is packing. I like the battery powered motion detector lights. I think they make those with an alarm, too. Yeah, it might get shot out after a while, but it also might deter trespassers enough to find someplace else to play hide the salami. ;)

Good luck. :yes:

[Lori B]

If you do the dye thing, don't be surprised if you end up with some interestingly colored deer in your neighborhood. Motion sensors don't have any way of distinguishing motorcycles or cars from bambi or a stray horse.

Motion sensors require some adjusting when you set them up. I used to work in an office w/ a ton of security (classifed stuff), and the motion sensor kept going off for nothing at night. They finally figured out that when the heating kicked on, it created a breeze that moved the engineering drawings hanging on a rack, and the fluttering of a few large sheets of paper tripped the motion sensor. After we dialed down the sensitivity, it stopped going off for the heating system.

[Alagirl]

But that does remind me of a scene in the movie 'almost an Angel' with Paul Hogan: He walks up to a bunch of drug dealers near a rec center, acting like he has a posse in waiting, with fire arms and stuff, hilarious. Of course, those things only work in movies... :lol:

[cssutton]

"I would be very skeptical that publishing pictures taken on one's own property by a camera whose presence was announced by a sign, of people who are, after all TRESPASSING is an actionable thing to do. Talk to a lawyer yourself, advice here is worth what you pay for it in that regard."

As that last sentence seems to be a dig at my post......

The case I mentioned could be a sign of things to come, or perhaps it will be reviewed by a higher court and overturned.

But essentially that judge ruled that if information is published with malice, and the legal definition of published is that the information be made available to a third party or more; the person about whom the information was published has been damaged.

This was a case where the information "published" was true and correct. The "damaged" person had embezzeled money and the persons from whom it was embezzled wished to make the thief's criminal past known to his new employer.

That is a departure from established law that generally holds that the truth protects you.

The Supreme Court has even held that news photographers, who have more protections than you and I, are damaging a criminal who is being served a warrant in his own home and goes on to a disertation about the expectation of privacy.

So would a clever lawyer manage to convince a court that even though he was parked in a car on another's property that he had reason to expect privacy within his own car?

Who knows.

Certainly it would take a room full of lawyers, a judge, a jury and days to determine the outcome. Oh, yes. And lots and lots of money on both sides of the courtroom.

No I am not offering legal advice and was not in my original post. I was only pointing out that a lot of the flip off the cuff remarks about taking photos and putting them on the internet is something to be very cautious about.

By the way, recent court cases have awarded much higher damages in cases involving postings on the internet than they have awarded for the ordinary acts involving damages.

Sure, you should get a lawyer's advice if you are going to do anything more than get a photo of a license plate.

But it is better to get rid of them in another manner.

Put the gate as close to the road as possible, depending on who owns the land between the split and the public road. Put a bright light over the gate. If the gate is open one night and closed another night, open another and closed another it will make them nervous since they will always wonder if it will be closed with them on the wrong side.

Especially so if the gate is closed every night for a month or two before it is closed intermittently.

Actually this is a better approach than closing it all the time because a closed gate also means that a burglar knows that you are cutoff from the outside by the gate. If he chooses to walk in from the back side, he knows he will have freedom to work without interruption.....even if you are in the house he knows you are cut off from help or at least help will be delayed.

CSSJR

[Lori B]

I still think it sounds farfetched, sorry.
And I think it would matter that the hypothetical photos we are discussing would be taken on the farm owner's property of a crime (trespassing) in progress. It is SO not the farm owner's problem that the trespassors have chosen to engage in embarrassing activities while they are trespassing.

Giving a picture to the cops, to prove that the crime took place, would be even less potentially actionable. Unless you are going to tell me that reporting a crime is the 'malice' you are referring to.

I just don't buy that this would hold up. Unless you have a case reference, I'm unconvinced.

[cssutton]

I word to the wise is sufficient only if the recipient is wise.

The risk is there whether you think it reasonable or not.

Like the guy that fell through the skylight in CA and won damages even though he fell while performing a burglary. The fact that we think the decision was crazy does not change the fact that crazy things happen in court.

It is not uncommon for a danage suit to cost $200,000 plus to each party. Even if you win, there is a penalty.

I have lost the link and I am not wasting anymore time with it.

Procede as you please.

CSSJR

[cssutton]

LoriB:

Here is the link to the case to which I referred:

http://www.legaline.com/2009/02/think-you-know-libel-law-think-again.html


Read it.

This was a case in which the plaintiff committed a criminal act against his employer, while employed, probably on the company property, and still won his case because the employer made his criminal act known to others.

One thing you will learn is that telling me I don't know what I am talking about is risky.

And I repeat again that I am not offering legal advice and have not. I am not a lawyer. All I have done is attempt to point out to the others on this thread that there are risks and that unless you are willing to take risks, you must be very careful.

Remember, that nice big house at the end of the long lane with the nice trees on each side, a horse barn with horses, etc., looks like a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow to some people.

CSSJR

[cssutton]

You might also check:
http://www.rcfp.org/photoguide/intro.html


About half way down, this:

"Courts have recognized four major branches of privacy law: 1) unreasonable intrusion upon seclusion; 2) unreasonable revelation of private facts; 3) unreasonably placing another person in a false light before the public; and 4) misappropriation of a persons name or likeness."

You will note that in the above paragraph are conditions that are subjective to the point that a plaintif could make it very difficult.

For instance: What is an unreasonable revelation of private facts?

What is an unreasonable intrusion upon seclusion?

A reasonable person might conclude that upon suspecting that a sex act is taking place, one would look the other way and continue one's own business. That would render the "intrusion upon seclusion" question null.

If one did see and recognize one in a sex act, a reasonable person might conclude that it is none of their business and procede with one's own affairs. That would render the "revelation of private facts" null.

Whether we agree or not is not the question. The question is what the judge and jury would conclude, especially in light of the Staples case.

Anyway, be careful when you tell me I don't know what I am talking about and blow me off unless I post a link.

I am over 80 and I have stumbled across a few facts in 80 years.

CSSJR

[birdsong]

A YELLOW condom.... seriously? They aren't very good at being inconspicuous are they? :lol:

I like the idea of signs indicating video cameras and posting on the internet. Probably don't even have to buy real cameras... just arrange some bushes to LOOK like they are hiding things ;)

Its a glow in the dark one so they can find it!! (and I don't mean the condom)

[crzychestnutrider]

Hi,
Just a quick update. The past couple of days have been fairly quiet. I think a couple of things are at work here. I bought a large sign stating trespassers will be videotaped and placed it at the beginning of the driveway. Also I took another piece of advice and we have been working at removing the scrub brush from either side of the drive, starting at the road. So we have been visible outside working. I also have a "handy" friend who is making fake camera boxes to be placed high up in the large trees but in plain view, they will be complete with wires winding down the trunks.
A quick question for those who use battery motion sensor lights; how long does the battery last? I ask because I have 3-5 does who hang out on the property:winkgrin: So I imagine they will be tripping them for the first little while then they'll probably stick to the bush.
I would like to thank everyone who has responded to this post, the ideas are great!

[Lori B]

cssutton -- an expression of skepticism and doubt is not me saying that you are ignorant and can't possibly know what you are talking about. Overreaching, doncha think? Are we a little touchy?

The case you cite is brand new and sounds vulnerable to being overturned to me, being at odds with lots of other precedents (according to your own links). So again, I'm not convinced that someone breaking the law (not comapny policy, but hello! the law!) is going to lawyer up and spend big $$ to try a case that rests on a poorly established new precedent.

Clearly, this topic has your panties in a bunch, but last time I checked, I'm allowed to politely disagree with my fellow COTHers.

I still think that in most instances, if the OP took a picture of the naked trespassers and gave it to the cops or the local newspaper that the trespassers would slink away in humiliation, as they should.

[cssutton]

You just can't seem to grasp the concept that what you think is not what counts.

What counts is that all it takes is an attorney who is willing to try a case based on what he and his client contend are the facts and the law, erroneous though it may be, and you will be at the mercy of the judge and jury.

It is what some attorney, a judge and a jury think that counts.

Unless you are willing to spend $200,000 or more on lawyers fees it pays to consider the risk before doing rash things. A vigorously fought case could cost that much or more in lawyer fees alone.

Giving a photo to the cops probably is reasonably defendable.

Giving the photo to the TV station is just asking for it.

Once the person has been booked and it is on the police blotter as a public record, the TV station can get it from that or from you if they choose.

Whether the TV station would accept such a photo before the person was booked. I really don't know. It would be an interesting question to pursue. I do know that there are pages and pages of court decisions regarding TV and newspaper camera men and the ins and outs of what they can do is mind boggling.

They also carry huge insurance policies just for this problem.

I doubt that your insurance covers that area.

As for the remark, which I will not dignify with an accompanying adjective, that I wear panties.....I rest my case.

[Valeureux]

Today's update: Longish

No one last night, that I'm aware of(fell asleep around 3ish). Had some excitment this morning:eek: From my bathroom window I can see entire length of driveway. I notice a dark colored car just sitting there. Throw on some clothes, grab paint gun, grab big very protective German Shepherd,a pen and paper and head out. I take a path that I know will put me out on the drive in front of the car. Just before I exit the bush I jot down the plate #. I walk out just like I was on an every day walkie, turn toward the car and start walking. I can see one person who looks like they are asleep(head back, mouth open). I get closer, no movement. I reach the bumper and tap on the hood, nothing:confused: I rap the hood very hard and the guy's eyes fly open! His mouth moves like he's talking and all of a sudden another head pops up. OMG(where's the barf icon when you really need it) Low and behold it's another guy! Butt naked:eek: Driver rolls down the window and starts stammering something about birdwatching:lol: I suggest he get out while his "friend" gets dressed. For whatever reason HE starts getting angry with me, who up until now has been the epitomy of politeness. I explain that as this is posted private property and no trespass I will be giving the local cops his plate# Now this is where it gets creepy....he starts toward me, yelling. Big dog takes care of that action really fast! Low belly growls and hackles up:D Man gets in car and tries to reason with me about the cops...cries his WIFE will leave him:eek: I tell him that just makes me want to call even more! Lowlife scum! He burns out the drive, I get to the house just a little shaky in the knees. Called the cops and reported his plate and was informed they would pay him a visit today. YAY score one for me!

For all those suggesting a gate; tried but the clubbers want no part of it! Many are elderly and there are also functions going on like weddings etc. I DO like the idea of battery/solar motion lights though! Thanks

Ew. Just ew. You should have paintballed that guy's car. :lol:

[Lori B]

Back. Away. From. The. Keyboard, Cssutton. Really.

I worked at the biggest corporate law firm in the world a few years ago, kemosabe, and while I'm not a lawyer, I'm also not completely bereft of a clue.

Skepticism is a good thing, on my home planet.

If your security and happiness is so deeply threatened by the simple questioning of someone you've never met on an in internet BB, then maybe, just maybe, you should investigate ways to secure it in the real world. Just a thought.

[cssutton]

Fascinating.

Which law firm?

And what was your position?

CSSJR

[Sing Mia Song]

Oh, come on you two, you're derailing a very entertaining thread. ;) Can ya take the gloves off in a PT instead of here?

[hsmom101]

Have the fake cameras helped as well as the signs? Sounds like a great plan and place to start.

Also, good debate is good to have and that is why the courts can see things several ways. Please don't derail this thread... Don't think OP is looking for a hugh legal fight, just wants to detour the ick factor going on in her driveway. Can't say that I blame her.:winkgrin:

[cssutton]

Sing Mia Song:

It is a good thread as long as no one on it tells the OP that it is OK to do something that very well may not be OK.

Taking pictures of persons and sending them to a TV station is asking for it.

News people get away with that stuff for two reasons: One is they have attorneys who spell out for them what they can do, and what they can do varies a great deal according to the circumstances.

Second, they are paying for some very expensive insurance.

The reason I asked the name of the law firm is to make the point that the world's largest law firm did not get to be the world's largest by handling cases involving naked men in someone's driveway.

They got to be that big handling the kind of stuff that is going on right now between Citi Group, Wells Fargo, Goldman Sachs, etc. Experts in tax law, stock swaps, mergers, acquisitions, etc.

If they handled any libel cases, it would more than likely be a libel claim as a result of a breach of contract suit, not unusual as tempers usually flare in those cases.

But if you got sued by two naked guys in your driveway, two things would happen if you went to the world's biggest firm. The first would be that you would quickly reach the conclusion that $600 an hour is a little steep. And the firm would settle the matter for you by sending you down the street to someone that has handled this kind of stuff.

So the OP should not be snowed by the comment that "I worked for the world's largest...."

Now my point simply is: Be very very careful about anything you do that ends up in the public eye, such as the news paper or the TV.

If you call the cops, they can handle it without being exposed to a lawsuit.

There are things you can do, as have been mentioned, such as lights, gates, driving up and down the road at odd hours, etc., that will not cause risk.

Taking pictures for any reason other than turning them in to the cops is something to be discussed with your attorney. That depends on your local and state laws.

By the way, I do have some experience in this sort of stuff. I am not a lawyer nor am I cop, but I did put a fellow in jail for peeping in a neighbor's window.

A long story I won't bore you with now, but the long and the short of it is that he did not even have his socks on. I scared him so bad that he ran severl blocks home, as I said without even his socks. I scared him so bad that he made several mistakes that allowed us to put him in jail.

And the way I did it exposed me not at all to a lawsuit.

Really a funny story, if a little long.

At the same time, I am not going to suggest to the OP that she handle it the way I did because there was very definitely personal risk involved.

CSSJR

[CatOnLap]

entertaining thread this has become. Just to say, with those motion sensor sprinklers? My hubby does a night delivery route. Several folks installed those sprinklers for the deer. Their deliveries are now left at the bottom of their long driveways. Hubby is tired of coming home to change clothes after trying to do his usual polite on the doorstep delivery. So don't install anything that could harm innocent people trying to do their jobs.

[LisaB]

I was wondering about that CatonLap. If you have a gate, how do the UPS/FedEx guys deliver packages?
Our USPS has a 1/2 mile rule. Won't deliver if your driveway is over 1/2 mile. So we have to pick the packages up.

[cssutton]

We don't close our gate except on very rare occasions.

But we ask both UPS and FEDEX not to come to the house because of our pet dog and also because it is not easy to turn a large truck around at our house.

So we have a designated drop, which lucky happens to be our tractor shed so it is very convenient, on the side of the drive, it acts as a weather shelter and has an area that enables even a tractor trailer to turn around.

So either put up a small building, dog house size even, at the end of the drive and set up for a neighbor to sign for anything that must be signed for.

CSSJR

[silver2]

You know those guys are probably meeting up on craigslist and it's probably just a few people. I bet once the word gets out what happened to Mr My Wife Will Leave Me you won't have any intruders for a while.

[shakeytails]

I didn't read the whole thread, but I'll tell you what worked for us. When we were building our current barn/house we always kept the gate closed and locked since we weren't living here yet. Once we moved in (about 6 yrs ago) we never shut the gate because we're too lazy to get out of the vehicles to open and close it. Shortly after we moved in, DH heard music late at night. He threw on a pair of pants and grabbed the shotgun and a flashlight. He spotlighted them and fired a round into the air. He said he didn't know a car could go so fast in reverse! It happened again about a year ago- same scenario. I'm relatively certain the second folks either weren't from around here or were new to the area, 'cuz word gets around fast amongst the local dopers who's crazy enough to shoot...

[KPF]

shakeytails, you made me laugh, your hubby sounds like mine. We're the only ones on a long private drive and apparently before we built, it was the local druggies' party spot. Needless to say once we moved in, the cars going down the road all hours of the night got old real quick. Hubby would get into our big truck, ride down the road with the lights off, right up to their car and then WHAM turn the bright lights on. They'd have to just about run off the road to get by him and would high-tail it outta there. One time, hubby's sheriff buddy happened to be over when someone drove back there and he and hubby chased down the TP'ers in the cop car, now THAT was fun. :lol: Wrong place, wrong time for sure for them. After a few times of those sort of incidents, trespassing has been at a minimum ever since... I think word got out about the crazy people who live on the road! :lol: We also have guns and are not afraid to use them. Plus our Dobie is frequently outside in invisible fence, I think her presence helps some too.

Sadly for us, the people who own the adjoining lot just put it on the market, so now people have an "excuse" to ignore our No Trespassing sign and ride down our road. :(

[DeeThbd]

The sign on my (locked) gate says:

"It's a shame they don't have some sort of 'be gone' spray for humans.

Yeah,.....it's called a skunk!!:lol:
Dee

[DeeThbd]

You could always let the lawn bowlers (who, if they are anything like the ones in my area, are likely seniors/grandparents) know in great detail what you saw the other morning.....perhaps then they might be more sympathetic!:lol:
Dee