Driving FAQs -- copy, link, add useful info here!

[Moderator 1]

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Mod 1

[Thomas_1]

Using a curb bit or just a riding snaffle:

http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=196249

[Thomas_1]

http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=197631

100 metres x 40 metres

[Thomas_1]

http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=200597

[War Admiral]

The reason why driving horses wear bridles with blinkers is that it cuts down the field of vision and they concentrate on what is in front of them not all around.

I would never ever drive a horse in an open bridle.

It's another one of those things that is darnright foolhardy.

The preference of light harness horse instructors and professionals is to prefer a driving horse to focus on what is happening in front and when you commence driving it can be problematic not having blinkers. And I'd never drive one without. Also dependent on what you intend to do, you may find you have to wear get him in blinkers because of rules. The rules exist BECAUSE it's safer. Whenever folks mention in postings about blinkers on BB's someone always turns up to say they've done it or know someone who does/has. But it's not right and it's not what you should do and it's not what professionals do.

Personally I would not show or drive a horse in an open bridle, even if it were allowed.

I've heard of the occasional (rare) horse who for one reason or another goes better in an open bridle. But IME its more a case that sometimes people just get warm and fuzzy about letting the horse see everything and the results can be disastrous.

I've known folks who went "open" bridle to drive. All claimed to be experienced drivers and with solid driving horses. It worked for a while. In every instance, horse later saw something, reacted, ended up causing a wreck. Some were modest wrecks, others quite horrific. I don't know any of the wrecked horses who were able to be SAFELY driven again, even in blinkers.

Blinkers shut down the big screen of visibility, reduce the reaction from the horse to uncontrollable features in the environment and to unconscious body signals you may give him. The horse is designed to notice these detail things, his survival depends on it, so blinkers close down the vision area allowed.

Then consider that a well-trained driving horse understands and responds appropriately to whip cues. The blinkers prevent the horse from seeing the driving whip and anticipating the whip cue. This is important for any driving horse but especially so for multiples. You don't want to be aiming a whip cue at one horse and having the other(s) see it coming and react when they're not the intended target of the cue.

Riding and driving are very different disciplines. Hooking a wheeled contraption to a horse or horses is a far riskier endeavor than climbing on a horse's back, both for the driver and passengers and for all the innocent bystanders and their property who stand in harm's way when there's a runaway horse and carriage. Blinkers (blinders) have been used for hundreds of years and are used by the most experience and skilled drivers. You need to think there must be valid reasons.

Ahhh. Thomas is throwing his teddy out of the pram again. :D

Bottom line - it is LEGAL under American Driving Society and U.S. Equestrian Federation rules to drive open. I repeat - IT IS LEGAL.

So, while the other posts are useful and are welcomed, this post IMO should NOT be placed in the Reference section, because it's the opinion of ONE foreign trainer who has clearly not read the US rules and is simply incorrect on the point!

I respect Thomas overall, but he is clearly biased on this point in one direction, while I'm biased in the other. I did own a clear and convincing exception to the rule, in a TB I trained myself who drove open from age 16 (when he started) to age 23, and who NEVER had a serious wreck, NEVER lost his concentration, and who was NEVER unsafe to drive. Indeed he taught many beginners the basics, some of whom are on this forum and still pleasantly alive to vouch for him. :D I would not be keeping the faith with his memory if I did not point out that there ARE exceptions to the rule, there ARE reputable professionals over here who acknowledge that, and that is why the ADS/USEF rules are as they are.

Peace out, y'all....

[hitchinmygetalong]

WA - pardon me, but I don't see where he states it is NOT legal to drive in an open bridle in the United States.

I see him making a very clear and compelling case for training your horse to go in blinkers.

I daresay he's trained a few more horses in his time than you have.

If you feel strongly that his post does not belong in this "reference" topic, then why don't you have a chat with the mods? Or perhaps have a little PM conversation with Thomas himself?

Personally, I would trust the judgment of a man with as much experience as Thomas has shown to have over that of someone who, say, has trained one horse.

[War Admiral]

Personally, I would trust the judgment of a man with as much experience as Thomas has shown to have over that of someone who, say, has trained one horse.

I, on the other hand, prefer to think and observe for myself, apply what I learn to each specific situation and horse I train, and put blind faith in no man! :lol:

[Thomas_1]

Ahhh. Thomas is throwing his teddy out of the pram again. :D

What are you on? !! ??

Bottom line - it is LEGAL under American Driving Society and U.S. Equestrian Federation rules to drive open. I repeat - IT IS LEGAL.

I'd suggest you read my post again and rather than making racist jingoistic comments about "foreigners" you note what I ACTUALLY said.....

Also dependent on what you intend to do, you may find you have to wear get him in blinkers because of rules. FACT: If you aspire to driving a horse at high level then you'll need to put him in blinkers.

I don't mean tootling about with an old rescue horse or driving local or even some countries national events. I mean if you aspire to driving fei.

And I'll leave you with a quote from my mentor and which is also contained on the ADS website.
“It is usual to drive a horse in a blinker bridle so that his attention may not be distracted by things seen to the side or rear.
It is true that Army horses and some railway horses were driven in open bridles, which may have advantages for horses used for special tasks, but there is nothing cruel about blinkers, which have been approved by generations of horsemen in many lands and there is little point in further debate about them.”
Tom Ryder
On the Box Seat

[Thomas_1]

WA - pardon me, but I don't see where he states it is NOT legal to drive in an open bridle in the United States. Seems we were posting at the same time only in addition to being able to read and understand, you type quicker than me! :winkgrin:

[MSP]

I respect Thomas overall, but he is clearly biased on this point in one direction, while I'm biased in the other. I did own a clear and convincing exception to the rule, in a TB I trained myself who drove open from age 16 (when he started) to age 23, and who NEVER had a serious wreck, NEVER lost his concentration, and who was NEVER unsafe to drive. Indeed he taught many beginners the basics, some of whom are on this forum and still pleasantly alive to vouch for him. :D I would not be keeping the faith with his memory if I did not point out that there ARE exceptions to the rule, there ARE reputable professionals over here who acknowledge that, and that is why the ADS/USEF rules are as they are.

Peace out, y'all....

I am afraid I agree with this. I have a hobby of reading old (100+) American on-line books on horses (driving and training) and nearly all of them have a discussion about blinders being optional equipment. Many state that you should use what ever the horse goes best in; open or blinders. These books were written when horses were used for transportation.

The fact that blinders are the norm now may have more to do with the philosophy that they are safer. Seeing as though most horses are driven with blinders and there are plenty of wrecks that occur with these horses perhaps the truth is that some horses would be safer driven open. 100 years ago the wisdom was to do what worked best for the horse.


Blinkers (blinders) have been used for hundreds of years and are used by the most experience and skilled drivers. You need to think there must be valid reasons.

While this is true the inverse is also true; open bridles have been used for hundreds of year by the most experienced and skilled drivers. Blinders were simply optional equipment and some time after the horse stopped being transportation and started to be driven for pleasure blinders became standard equipment in America for pleasure drivers.

No doubt that it requires a very experienced trainer to drive in an open bridle or more importantly to decide what horse should be driven open. But if driving with blinders is a rule passed down from driver to novice then it could just be a lost art.

Today standardbreds are allowed to race with binders or open. They change the equipment to suite the horse!

Some of the most impressive driving horses in this country were the firehouse horses. They were always driven in open bridles. They needed to see all around them to navigate quickly around hazards and sharp turns.

Seems to me that we may have lost the "art of Driving" for the sake of safety. Some references:

The art of Driving , Harpers 1896 (http://books.google.com/books?id=kM4aAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA517&dq=driving+horse+open+bridle#v=onepage&q=driving%20horse%20open%20bridle&f=false)

Another vexed subject is that of blinders or winkers. High spirited intelligent horses are usually safer in open bridles for they can look behind them and see what is coming. It is an advantage also and a pleasure besides for the driver to be able to watch their eyes as well as their ears. But occasionally a nervous horse goes better with blinders and this is true also of some young intelligent horses who are so exceedingly curious about objects along the road that without blinders it is hard to make them go steadily and swiftly. In short whether to use blinders or not is mainly a matter for experiment in each case with the presumption in favor of an open bridle


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWGZdMT2dI4&feature=related Note the two pictures of horses with blinders are reenactments!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRYQUplbhcY&feature=fvw

Just some food for thought.

[RidesAHaflinger]

http://www.caaonline.com/caa_content.asp?PageType=Dept&Key=6&MType=HA&MTypeDesc=Harness

[Cartfall]

. The CDE (Combined Driving Event) is modeled after the Three Day Event, which tests the overall condition and versatility of the horse in sport. I-TRH Prince Philip was a major force in the design of the rules and is today an active participant in the sport. Major competitions are usually held over three days: day 1) Driven Dressage; day 2) Cross Country Marathon with up to eight special obstacles or hazards; day 3) Cone Driving Competition which equates to the show jumping phase of the ridden event (One or two-day competitions include each of the phases, with a Marathon of a shorter distance). Penalty points are incurred in each of the above phases and the winner is the entry who accumulates the fewest points. Horses and ponies compete separately in these categories: single— one horse/pony; pairs—two horses/ponies side by side; tandem—two horses/ponies, one in front of the other; and Teams—four horses/ponies—two pair, one in front of the other.

Dressage
Often compared to compulsory figures in figure skating, the dressage test consists of a prescribed sequence of movements judged against a standard of absolute perfection. The test demonstrates the obedience, freedom, regularity of movement, impulsion, and correct position and training of the animals. Multiple hitches are judged collectively.

Cross-Country Marathon
This phase tests the fitness, stamina, and obedience of the horses and the judgment and capability of the driver. Advanced competitions can have 5 sections (A, B, C, D, E), which may include mandatory walks, trots, as well as a section which includes hazards. Other competitions may have 3 sections (A, B, E), all having a minimum/maximum time allowance. At the end of section B and D there are mandatory 10 minute halts with veterinary checks to ensure the horses are not unduly stressed and are fit enough to continue. Competitors can walk the course before the marathon phase and plan their route. They are given a map and course marker flags for guidance, but no horse is allowed on the course before the start. Drivers may choose any path through the obstacles, provided they drive through each gate in the correct alphabetical sequence, wand with the red flag on the right and white on the left. The object is to complete each hazard in the shortest possible time with no penalties. Penalties include time, groom/driver dismounting, driver putting down whip, error of course, knocking down a collapsible element, and turning the vehicle over.

Cones

Cones can be likened to the stadium jumping phase of eventing. The object is to drive through narrowly spaced pairs of cones cleanly within time allowed. Each cone has a ball placed on top, and any miscalculation will dislodge the ball, thus incurring a penalty. This phase tests the fitness, agility and obedience of the horse and the accuracy and skill of the driver.

Carriages
Vehicles used in Combined Driving must be safe and well maintained. Each competitor is checked at presentation before the dressage test and again for safety before the rigors of the marathon. The same vehicle must be used in both dressage and cones; a second vehicle may be used in the marathon.

Grooms & Navigators
A groom may accompany the driver in the dressage and cones competitions. On the marathon, the groom is a vital part of the team to help the driver stay on the correct course, to keep track of time, to hold paper work, and to help direct the route through obstacles. In addition the groom is called on to balance the vehicle by shifting his/her weight around tight turns or on uneven ground. Grooms may not handle the reins, nor the whip, and may give verbal assistance only in the marathon. No verbal communication between the driver and the groom is allowed in the dressage or cones competitions.


(source: www.american driving society.org

[Cartfall]

An Arena Driving Trial is a CDE shrunk down to be a 1 or 2 day event inside an arena. The entire marathon/cross country phase is totally removed. They were created to offer a less expensive opportunity to drivers who might want to compete in this style of an event and more options to show organizers who did not have the volunteer base or venue to put on a full CDE.

ADT dressage tests are a bit different than what you are used to in a CDE! They are designed to be driven in variable sized arenas with different entrance points. You should "walk" your dressage test before the competition begins. During your test, you should enter the arena and warm up inside the arena until the judge signals you to start, and then proceed to your first movement. Note that the first halt and salute is done at an angle - just turn your body to salute the judge - don't turn the horse and carriage.

Dress is "marathon" as presentation is not scored in an Arena Driving Trial. Clean, neat marathon dress and same vehicle should be used for all 3 phases of the competition. If in marathon gear, helmet is required, as well as gloves and whips. If dressed traditionally, aprons, gloves, whip, hat, and jacket are required. Don't mix your styles!


Cones
Scoring: This competition is a FAULT competition (as with CDEs and HDTs) and will be scored according to a time allowed based on the speed and distance of the course. Balls down are 3 penalty points.


In an Arena Driving Trial 4 hazards are timed and each scored separately.


House rule (ADS approved): Each hazard can be driven two times (if the driver desires) and the best of two will count for scoring and placing. This includes Eliminations - if you "E" on a hazard, take the other score. Judges, however, will not inform you if you have been eliminated.

In the morning, each competitor will drive Hazard #1 and Hazard #2. If desired, the competitor can repeat the drive by doing Hazard #1 and Hazard #2 again. Best of the two scores for a hazard will count.
The hazards will be reflagged and walked during the lunch break.
In the afternoon, each competitor will drive Hazard #3 and Hazard #4. If desired, the competitor can repeat the drive by doing Hazard #3 and Hazard #4 again. Best of the two scores for a hazard will count.
Time taken is converted to penalty points at 0.2 points per second, and lowest total penalty points determines placing.


All hazard gates will be driven in alphabetical order, with the number of gates dependent on experience level:

Training: 3 gates A-B-C (NO CANTERING PERMITTED)
Preliminary: 4 gates A-B-C-D
Intermediate: 5 gates A-B-C-D-E (4-wheel vehicles only)
Advanced: 5 gates A-B-C-D-E-F (4-wheel vehicles only)
Note that VSEs do not need a navigator, but small ponies, large ponies, horses, and any multiples require a navigator in the hazards.

ASTM Safety Helmets are REQUIRED for all persons on the carriage.

(Source: www.cypresskeep.com specific for the 2009 Tampa Trials)

Just to give you an idea of what an ADT is.

[Cartfall]

What is a Derby? A “derby” (British Spelling) or “darby” (Alternative non-British Spelling) (both pronounced “darby”) is an event that combines all the excitement of cones, hazards, and other obstacles. The driver will be asked to go through the course obstacles (cones, bridge, and hazards) in numerical order, and portions of the course will include hazards, with drivers going through in alphabetical gate order, and then proceeding through more obstacles. All obstacles must be driven in the correct direction (red flag on right).

What are the Darby/Derby Rules?

1. General Principles

A Carriage Derby is competition that offers a combination of marathon and cone obstacles and may be held in a suitably size indoor or outdoor arena. Each driver will be timed from crossing the start line and drive each of the numbered obstacles in the proper direction and in numerical order to the finish line. Depending on the number of volunteers available, the course gates may be set to a common width for each class, or adjusted for individual vehicle width. Grouped obstacles may have any number of knockdowns to protect the elements, and have to be set to a standard width. The Tampa Trials is using the Common Width for each class.



2. Rules

2.1 Classes for Training, Preliminary and Intermediate may be provided.

2.2 All entries (except VSE-single) must be driven with a groom on the vehicle.

2.3 Grooms may ride with more than one entry subject to scheduling.

2.4 Age restrictions under Article 910.1.2 shall apply to all entries.

2.5 All persons on the course must wear properly fitted ASTM protective headgear, with harness attached. Protective vests and medical armbands are strongly recommended.

2.6 Only the driver may handle the reins, brake, and whip

2.7 A whip of suitable size to reach all horses must be carried in hand while on course. If the whip is inadvertently dropped, the driver shall stop the vehicle, the groom dismount, hand the whip to the driver and remount before the vehicle resumes the course. The penalty is time lost.

2.8 No cantering in Training classes or any 2 wheel vehicles.

2.9 Wire wheels and/or pneumatic tires allowed in Training class only.

2.10 Preliminary and Intermediate must be driven in 4 wheel vehicles.

2.11 Gate widths may be common width for turnout or adjusted for each class

2.12 Grouped obstacle widths: VSE = 2.0m; all other turnouts = 2.5m

2.13 Drivers may enter a maximum of two times. The second entry shall not count toward any prizes. For the Tampa Trials, a driver can enter any number of times, but the second entry in the same class will not count. An entry in a different class will count.

2.14 Driving gates out of order is “off course” and may be corrected by returning to the missed gate and resuming the course.

2.15 All gates completed are “dead” and can be driven in either direction, however if any ball or knockdown is dislodged at any time, it is penalized.

2.16 All drivers are allowed 20 minutes to walk the course. A course diagram will be posted before the walk but not required to be distributed.

2.17 Judge’s interpretation of these rules is final.



3. Scoring

3.1 Course is timed from nose of first horse crossing start line to nose of first horse crosses finish line.

3.2 Penalties are added to the elapsed time for total time.

3.3 Entry with the lowest total time wins

3.4 Ties will be broken by the fewest penalty seconds or a drive-off at Management discretion.



4. Penalties

4.1 Off course – corrected......................................... ......................... 20 seconds

4.2 Off course – not corrected .................................................. ..........Elimination

4.3 Ball or knockdown dislodged .................................................. ....... 5 seconds

4.4 Preventing a ball or knockdown from falling................................. 10 seconds

4.5 Reckless or unsafe driving........................................... .................Elimination

4.5 Continuing course without whip in hand .........................................Eliminati on

4.6 Incorrect pace (each five second interval) ................................... 10 seconds

4.7 Intentional cantering in 2 wheel vehicles or Training classes .......Elimination

4.8 Refusals (1st and 2nd occurrence) .............................................. 10 seconds

4.9 Refusal (3rd occurrence) .................................................. ............Elimination

4.10 Missing or not stopping to repair disconnected harness...............Elimination

4.11 Groom not on vehicle passing any gate, start or finish ................ 20 seconds

4.12 Passing exit before completing all obstacles ................................Elimination

4.13 Groom dismounting when vehicle is not stopped ........................ 20 seconds

4.14 Driver dismounting anywhere on course...................................... 20 seconds

4.15 Vehicle turnover .................................................. .........................Elimination

4.16 Starting before signal or not crossing start line.............................Elimination

4.17 Outside assistance from anyone not on the vehicle......................Elimination

4.18 Excessive use of the whip.............................................. ...............Elimination

4.19 Unsportsmanlike behavior .................................................. .......Elimination



5. Typical Course Design

The number of elements on the course shall be determined by the size of the arena available, not to exceed 4 lettered obstacles, one bridge, and 10 pairs of cones. At the Tampa Trials, some of the cones will be removed for Intermediate and Advanced divisions for greater speed opportunities.


Source--www.cypresskeep.com found in their link to Tampa Trials, 2009
Rules are based on Canadian Carriage Club

[Cartfall]

Competitive Trail Riding (CTR) or Competitive Tral Driving (CTD)is an equestrian sport where riders/drivers cover a marked trail for a distance that is usually between 15 and 40 miles per day. Some ridesdrives are only one day long, others may run as long as three days.

The goal of the competition is to demonstrate partnership between horse and rider. Unlike in endurance riding, factors other than speed are considered. If the ride/drive is timed, it is a form of trace pace; else it is a judged trail ride. In a timed ride, horses may not come in under or over a certain time, and veterinary checks, rider behavior and other elements play a role in the placings. The horse is evaluated on performance, manners, and related criteria. "Pulse and respiration" stops check the horse's recovery ability and conditioning.

There are many different organizations which sanction Competitive Trail Rides/Drives. Horsemanship may be considered at some competitions, depending on the sanctioning organization. Riders/drivers are evaluated on how they handle the trail, manage the horse, and present to the judges and veterinarians throughout the ride. Obstacles are also set up along the trail and the horse and rider are graded on how well they perform as a team.

Rides/drives are often held on public lands, such as Forest Service or BLM lands in the United States, but are also held on private property. The terrain varies depending on the part of the country in which a competition is held, and lands available for the event. Unlike trail riding at a guest ranch, where inexperienced riders walk their horses most of the time and cover simple trails, riders/drivers who compete in competitive trail rides are asked to have their animals navigate a variety of terrain and use all gaits, especially the trot.

Similar events exist around the world, though often with wide variations in rules and distances. In all cases, the most obvious difference between an endurance ride and a competitive trail ride/drive is that the winner of an endurance ride is the first horse and rider team to cross the finish line and pass a vet check that deems the horse "fit to continue," whereas competitive trail rides/drives usually consider additional factors and penalize a horse and rider that finish in too little or to long of a time.

Source is Wikipedia.com

Organizations that offer competitive trail riding/driving are SEDRA (base in Florida),www,distanceriding.org
North American Trail Ride Conference (www.natrc.org),
Upper Midwest Endurance and Competitive Rides Association (www.umecra.com),
Eastern Competitive Trail Riding Association (www.ectra.org),
Middle of the Trail Distance Riders Association (www.motdra.fws1.com), Southeastern Distance Riding Association (www.distanceriding.com), and Ontario Competitive Trail Association (www.octra.on.ca).

[Cartfall]

Like the CTD, the trace pace is all about pacing your horse to some desired speed. One is not supposed to carry a watch or a GPS, and the entry that finishes closest to the secret time wins.

Unlike the CTD, there is no judging on the fitness of the horse before or after the course is run.

Usually there is picnic afterwards and everyone has a grand time.

The course tend not to be near as long as a CTD--usually between 5 and 10 miles.

(source--my own personal knowledge and experience)

[Cartfall]

This is a rail class at a Driving Pleasure Show.

Entires are judged primarily on the quality and performance of each turnout.
70% of the score goes to condition, fit and appropriates of harness and vehicle. neatness and appropriateness of attire and overall impression.

30% on performance, manners and way of going.

The judge will ask you to go both ways around the arena at a slow, working and strong trot. You will be asked to come into the center of the ring and have your horse stand quietly while the judge walks around all entries. You will be asked to reinback. (remember a reinback is back up 3 or 4 steps (or howevermany you are asked) and then return at a walk to your starting point).

It is not unusual for the judge to ask to see a simple pattern as a figure 8 or a serpentine.

Source--ADS web site.

[Cartfall]

This is a class that the horse is judge primarily on its ability to provide a pleasant experience for the driver. 70% of of the judging is on the manners and way of going of the horse, 20% is on the fit of harness and carriage/cart, and 10% on the attire of the driver.

Similarly to Turnout, you will be asked to go both directions in a slow, working and strong trot, pull into the center, have your horse stand quietly and perform a reinback.

A simple pattern may be asked for.

Source--ADS website.

[Thomas_1]

Time was that a single horse was nearly always driven to a 2 wheel vehicle.

Now however it's almost as common to use 4 wheeled vehicles. National driving trials competitors in the UK will always use 4 wheelers on the marathon phase as it's a requirement in the rules.

Just as I always teach a new driver to drive traditional coachman style of holding reins in the left hand with the right hand used only as an assister, so I would advocate always learning to drive in a 2 wheeler.

So if you're a novice I'd say that it's a "no brainer" and no decision.... get a 2 wheeled vehicle.

If you can drive very well in a 2 wheeler, you have a better chance of then learning to drive well in a 4 wheeler.

What a 2 wheeler tends to teach you is positioning and balanced seat (see earlier faq on page 1). If you turn abruptly in a 2 wheeler at a gate for example, you are likely to catch the inside of the wheel on the gatepost. You soon learn to drive further on before you ask for the turn. Even if you hit the wheel on the gate, you'd be really unlucky to tip the vehicle and you can get out of the situation.

In a 4 wheeler the turntable on the vehicle is right under your feet so when you turn the horse the vehicle turns in the same arc.

With 4 wheels the horse can turn almost at 45 degrees to you without moving the vehicle. In a 2 wheeler where the shafts are fixed to the body, he has to move the shafts in order to turn so the turning circle is very different. But not bigger. A competent driver and well schooled horse can turn a 2 wheeler by spinning the wheels on the spot, with the animal crossing his legs over one another as he turns on the haunches.

A 2 wheeler has to be balanced because the shafts are attached to the body of the vehicle and so move up and down with it. It must balance so it floats behind the horse.

A 4 wheeler does not have to have to be balanced but you need to understand it's mechanics. The whip usually sits in between the 2 axles or towards the front axle depending on the length and height of the vehicle. That means therefore that there is more weight over the front of the vehicle. If your groom gets off the back, say to open a gate, then suddenly there's no weight at all on the back and if the carriage is say moving forward to a dip in the gate it's going to be REALLY easy to tip up and roll over. You MUST be aware of your positioning on the vehicle at all times, making sure there is sufficient weight on the back and that you don't do such as turn the front wheels as weight is lifting off the back. You'll go over. What your groom does on the back is important because with a 4 wheeler they assist you to keep the wheels on the ground.

4 Wheelers normally have brakes. (In the UK that's a requirement). They always have them on the back and sometimes 2 sets, front and back. Personally speaking I don't like driving 4 wheelers with 2 sets of brakes that can be used when driving. (sometimes you get a parking brake which is different)

When there's 2 sets (front and back wheels) they sometimes operate off one pedal. Bear in mind that if you have 2 brakes and 2 pedals and stamp on the pedal operating only the front brakes you will put all the weight on the front of the vehicle and VERY possibly tip it so the carriage turns upside down. Even for the most competent driver, that's high risk and I'd never advise anyone other than very experienced to even have a passing thought at getting a 4 wheeler with 2 sets of brakes and 2 foot pedals.

Now I always say that no one should drive unaccompanied. I personally never do it and it's intrinsically unsafe. You can if you're lucky and everything is going well, get away with it in a 2 wheeler. Much higher risk with a 4 wheeler. Personally I like my horses too much and I like living too much to even chance it .... even in my own field. With a modern light construction 4 wheeled road, pleasure or marathon vehicle you need the groom on the back to keep the wheels on the ground and the vehicle from tipping over.

[Thomas_1]

With the vehicle standing level and the ground and floor of the vehicle parallel to the ground:

Measure:-

The carriage:
1 The height from the ground to the tug stop on the shaft
2 Length from the tug stop on the shaft to the trace box

The Horse:
1 The height from the middle of the girth to the ground
2 The length from the middle of the horse's girth line to the back of the thigh adding a further 12 inches for a pony or 18 inches for a horse

If "1" and "2" measurement on both horse and carriage are similar, the horse should fit after some slight harness adjustment.

It may also be possible to alter the tug stops on the vehicle, provided that the horse's chest is appropxiately level with the tip of the shift when the horse is put to.

To balance the vehicle, when the horse has been put to and the driver and passengers are seated in their normal position the shafts should rest lightly (approx 4 lbs weight) on the harness tugs with the carriage's floor parallel to the ground. The balance can be adjusted by ideally moving the seat position or by carrying an extra weight (a 4lb weight is ideal) fixed to the vehicle floor positioned in front of the line of the axle or behind the line - dependent on what you're seeking to do.

For safety reasons the weight should be fixed so it doesn't move about all over or drop out of the vehicle.

[Thomas_1]

Look, observe and take advice before making any decisions

Think carefully about the breed

Remember you make haste slowly - even if your ultimate aim is to drive hackneys in the show ring or a sports horse in CDE, these are not the horses to start with. It would be like driving a ferrari or a formula 1 before you'd mastered the technique of steering.

Your first driving horse might be plain but it's a fact that a flashy, showy one is ALWAYS harder to drive than a plainer, more even-tempered one.

It's the very high-spirited nature that dictates this and you will find the more spirited and able to think for himself that your horse is that the faster, surer and more automatic your reactions need to be. Something that ONLY comes with miles on the clock and testing yourself properly over time and with good help and lessons.

If starting with a family pony, get someone experienced to put it to harness for you.

For anyone not genuinely experienced with putting a horse to harness and bringing on a youngster, I'd say never less than 6.

If buying a new horse or pony, think CAREFULLY what you want to do with it i.e. will it be ridden as well as driven

Be honest and use a liberal dose of self-awareness when it comes to assessing your own ability and competence. Remember experience is just time spent. Competence is entirely different!

As a novice, buy a horse that has been well trained and tested as a carriage horse and that REALLY knows it's job. It should be 110% traffic proof. It should want to stand forever unless it's been told to go forward and it should know how to look after itself at all costs.

The overall turnout of horse, vehicle, driver and passenger should look balanced and in harmony. Be neither under or over-horsed: neither in size, type nor ability.

Ensure you have public liability insurance before driving out on roads

Two novices are NEVER good mix

You and your horse can't "learn the job together". Most frequently that ends in disaster. And yes, you'll hear people telling you it can be done but in my considerable experience, it can't!

Remember

Green + Green = Black and Blue

[Thomas_1]

The main thing to appreciate is that a full collar HAS to fit well. If it doesn't then friction will eventually cause the horse to jib. You must of course ensure you don't have a fixed swingletree for a full collar. I've never personally found that one full collar does a horse through it's lifetime and indeed have often found a horse needed two collars just to accommodate the difference in musculature and size between in good hard condition and well muscled and with a little more weight on as per say in winter.

A breast collar on the other hand is much easier to fit and though of course it has to be in the right place it just doesn't touch the areas affected by a full collar. That means you can save a lot of money because you don't have spare collars just sitting on the shelf. These aren't suitable at all though if it's a heavy load because the weight tends to be localized rather than spread over the whole shoulder.

For showing it was rare that I used anything other than a full collar. I always particularly liked a patent leather Kay full collar. Also known as the Prince of Wales collar. Because of it's shape it shows a good horse off to the greatest advantage. You really do need to have a nice light gig for that too.

Full collars can also be difficult when you're driving a pair if britching isn't used and because they're next to the pole and if the vehicle runs forward, so can the pole and which tightens the pole straps and in turn puts pressure on the horses' necks.

I personally never drive my pairs without britching nowadays and it's a heck of a long time since I drove using full collars too. I normally only get them out nowadays to show pupils how to fit them and what they do.

[Thomas_1]

Cantering a harness horse is not new. Its been done for centuries. Think Boadica's chariots! Then think coaching: it used to be called "springing" and you'd put the team to canter and for extra zoom! (think turbo charged) and likewise in the Wells Fargo days! Think of hunt followers in the early days..... Always in a carriage and often in a 2 wheeler and often at canter too.

Some 2 wheeler carriages are indeed immensely uncomfortable at canter and that's the reason why "some" drivers seem to think that its something you don't or shouldn't do and for sure if you're showing a horse in harness you don't want it to break into a canter stride because you will be marked down for it.

But going from that into believing that its the "norm" not to permit a harness horse to canter is merely demonstrating a lack of true understanding. Likewise checking and punishing or never permitting a horse to break into a canter seems bizarre to me.

At the end of the day you don't canter a horse if its not adequately schooled and prepared. And a driver/rider shouldn't canter a horse if they don't know what to do and aren't in control. If the horse PLUS the driver is calm and confident in harness there is absolutely nothing wrong with it and indeed a horse than can calmly canter in harness is going to be better balanced in trot.

Furthermore it will not compound panic, accident or anything else if something happens. No different in driving than riding. Horses don't panic more or become more predisposed to "flight and fright" mode just because they're in canter gait.

Rather a horse should be schooled and prepared to be calm and well-behaved in as many scanarios as possible.

Hence as part of driving training it's prudent and wise to teach the horse in controlled and safe circumstances how to canter in harness: to feel the motion of the harness and carriage when it transitions up and maintains a canter pace. Then to bring it to transition back to trot and walk and stand calmly. A canter should be a no issue for a horse and whether it's a riding or a driving horse you don't want to the horse to first experience a canter when it's say doing a few strides as part of a spook.

Particularly so when it's a harness horse because the carriage will likely bump about and make more noise and so it's considered good practice by traditionalist or old school harness horse trainers to ensure that canter is part of training and normal experience.

Dependent on what you intend to do you may have to train to canter. e.g. for just every day driving on VERY steep hills to make it easier on the horse/s, for advanced driven dressage tests, for obstacles in the marathon phase of Horse Driving Trials (CDE).

[gothedistance]

This was posted on a thread about sleighing, and I thought it would be a good idea to post it here, too, for anyone interested.....


Sleighing can be tons of fun! What could be better than "dashing through the snow in a one horse open sleigh" and all the memories later of jingling bells and the whoosh of snow under the runners. If you want to experience just a touch of the fun watch this video of us sleighing. (http://vimeo.com/8300445) We've been sleighing for over 32 years in the Eastern US. Got to learn all the tricks...and pitfalls... in that time! :lol:


For yourself - Dress WARM! Have a thick, warm lap robe (blanket, whatever), warm boots(!!!) warm gloves that can still let you finger the reins, close-fitting wool hat, and a friend along to enjoy the sleighing.

Tack - see if you can purchase a set of extra long reins.

For the pony/horse - trace clipped, set of bells (I dress the ponies in the bells before putting them to. I don't run the bells over the shafts), studs on shoes (if shod). Make sure the pony/horse fit in the shafts with plenty of room to comfortably trot an extended stride without touching the sleigh at all!! Very important!! Go ONLY at a walk or trot - no cantering unless on a straight line as the sleigh may tip if you try to canter and turn. Also the hooves will create "snowballs" which will be thrown back onto the curl (hence the reason for the height and the curving) and it can make a very loud "crack!!". Just so you know. :)

For the sleigh - (first time use) good check-over to make sure the wooden struts are solid, that the metal runners are also solid, curl is solid and on tight.

For weather conditions - that the snow is "sleigh-worthy": ie: "fast" (dry) and deep enough (at least 1-2") but not too deep (over 4") so that it will snag the runners if you try to turn too fast. Temps should hover at or below freezing. Too warm will create wet snow which will "grab" the runners and make it almost impossible to turn, even if you treat them with the commercial ski wax (which you can pick up at a ski store). You don't need to treat the runners -- any wax coating you put on will wear off too quickly anyway. Be aware, if the surface is too icy or too packed, you risk your horse/pony slipping and sliding ...even on flat surfaces. If you have to use this type of surface, try to drag at least one runner in the snow to provide some resistance.

Terrain - as flat and as object-free as possible. Preferably a gravel road, a farm track, or a pasture. If you sleigh cross country be aware -the traditional sleigh has no springs so you will feel EVERY bump and dip under the snow.

There is no sound of the sleigh running on the snow except a very very soft "shhhhhhhhh". The pony/horse won't even hear it with bells on, or even if not wearing bells.

The effort to start a sleigh is minimal if it is on a patch of fast snow. The metal runners won't freeze to the ground if the temps are below freezing; the friction created by the runners going over snow don't create heat. It is simply the dead weight (full unassisted resistance) of the object that makes it appear to be difficult to start from a standstill. But in decent snow conditions, it is minimal - easy as pie for an experienced driving animal.


In the meantime, check out your sleigh thoroughly to make sure it is sound, start conditioning your pony/horse to the bells, and get ready for some snow to get that sleigh out.....and enjoy! :)

[gothedistance]

winfieldfarm posted an excellent question -- and received excellent responses -- regarding whip reels and storing and caring for a carriage whip. :)

Here are the responses:

You should not try to place the bow on the reel. The bow should rest an inch or so below the reel. Your whip reel should have a series of channels on it for the thong to rest. Simply wrap the thong around the reel twice, and then let the remaining thong length drop on the far side. It should stay in place.


However, if it slips off you can cross over your thong to help hold it in place on the reel, but this also prevents you from easily removing the whip without having to handle the thong all the time.

Here is a better suggestion:

Take a piece of black carpet thread (it is thicker and stronger than regular sewing thread - but still virtually invisible from a few steps away) and tie it at the top of your whip shaft so that it has a little loop. If your whip reel isn't mounted on a board (stained to match the reel), do so first. Hang your whip on the reel as you naturally would, and where the top of the whip shaft with thread loop rests against the board, put a tiny finishing nail in the board. Now, when you hang the whip you can slip the thread loop onto the nail and it will ensure that your whip stays where it should, that your thong stays on the reel and won't slip, and that the whip thong is not having to hold the whip in place all on it's own.

You should never have more than two whips on a reel. Each whip should hang on the opposite side from the other. That center third groove is to accommodate the extremely long thong from a 4-in-hand whip. Otherwise, it isn't used.

DNJ had some great suggestions for storing a whip when not in use. She wrote:
"What we ACTUALLY use to store whips at the barn where we board is an old milk can - tall metal canistar with a narrower top
We probably have about a dozen various whips stuck in there upright. Also you can put 2-3 foot sections of PVC attached to the wall that you can sip a driving whip or lunge whip into to keep them upright

To travel with a whip you can get threaded PVC and a matching threaded cap - cut to just beyound the length of the whip - the other end you can glue on a PVC cap
They are safe and protected in the PVC pipe - We have used the 2 inch pipe but you could go bigger if you are carrying more whips"
We use the brass carriage whip holders (the ones you have on your carriage) tacked in a nice line-up on the carriage house (inside) wall for the everyday carbon fiber whips. The holly whips, however, are kept in the house (of course!! you want them in a controlled temperature) on a full board whip reel.