Cushings???or what in older horse?

[Rebmik]

Long story short...older gentleman I rent barn/cabin from has 2 horses. His horse knowledge is from 60+ years ago...horses do fine no need to do anything to their teeth, no need to deworm (closed herd???), I could go on and on. He loves his horses, but doesn't know, but thinks he does...delicate situation.
However his geriatric t-bred gelding looks horrible...very ribby, but bloated lower stomach, coat matted and patchy long, dull eyes, always seems aggravated. Even though he doesn't believe they need to be dewormed but maybe 1-2/x year I just do his when I do my 2. (they are not pastured or stalled together)
He had another geriatric t-bred mare die about 1 month ago that was this guy's pasturemate for 10 years (she broke her pelvis, another story).
Anyway since that owner has tripled gelding's feed, like he's trying to make gelding feel better with more food. this gelding gets 12 measuring cups of Nutrena Senior 2x day + orchard grass hay and a now becoming more and more lush 30+ acre pasture.
could this horse be developing cushings? If so...are these symptoms? how can I gently explain that he could be ultimately killing this horse also?????
this is a very delicate and sensitive subject for him because he really thinks he knows best:cry:

[BornToRide]

Sounds like this horse possibly already has Cushings. Does this horse also have goopy eyes and lacks muscle on topline?

[Rebmik]

very much so!
goopy eyes are not constant
horse is retired, but owner will attempt to ride about 3-4x/year. So no muscle tone what so ever.
I looked online for simple, straightforward info on cushings to help me explain it to owner, but couldn't find. I know he will not get him tested or put him on any medication.
I just want to know if this is what he has and what, if anything I can do to help this poor horse. This amount of feed is absurd correct?

[BornToRide]

Very much sounds like it - testing the ACTH levels would confirm it, or the owner could just switch to a low NSC diet, if he's willing.

[Rebmik]

appearance, which aside from the long, shaggy coat, could be old age correct?
How does cushings negatively affect a horse's health?

[greysandbays]

"Twelve measure cups" like how? Little one-cup measures that I have in my kitchen drawer, or like the four-cup measureing cup that I keep in the cabinet?

Twelve cups as in actual "cups" is a piddly amount of feed -- only 3/4 of a gallon (which is probably less than four pounds, or maybe six-seven pounds a day). That's not much senior feed for an old horse; if a horse's ability to chew/digest forage is compromised, it takes up to 15 lbs a day just to feed a medium size horse. Even if an old horse has 40 acres of grass, if he can't chew it properly or digest it properly, it might as well be a dirt lot.

Before you go looking to get on the Cushings bandwagon, you might first want to consider the more mundane and more unglamorous probabilities. If it's even your business at all (which based on info given, unless you purchase the horse, IMO, it's not).

[Bezysmom]

He does sound like he could be Cushings and possibly IR also. If the owner won't test, the best thing to do would be to try and get him on a low NSC diet and keep him away from a lot of grass (especially the spring grass). Good luck.

Paula

[Rebmik]

"Twelve measure cups" like how? Little one-cup measures that I have in my kitchen drawer, or like the four-cup measureing cup that I keep in the cabinet?

Twelve cups as in actual "cups" is a piddly amount of feed -- only 3/4 of a gallon (which is probably less than four pounds, or maybe six-seven pounds a day). That's not much senior feed for an old horse; if a horse's ability to chew/digest forage is compromised, it takes up to 15 lbs a day just to feed a medium size horse. Even if an old horse has 40 acres of grass, if he can't chew it properly or digest it properly, it might as well be a dirt lot.

Before you go looking to get on the Cushings bandwagon, you might first want to consider the more mundane and more unglamorous probabilities. If it's even your business at all (which based on info given, unless you purchase the horse, IMO, it's not).


WOW!!! I certainly hope that when I get to be 80 yo that someone cares enough to enlighten me to potential things going on with my horse that I may not notice.:(

[greysandbays]

WOW!!! I certainly hope that when I get to be 80 yo that someone cares enough to enlighten me to potential things going on with my horse that I may not notice.:(

Unless there's some major breakthrough in manipulating the old brain, at 80, you'll be just as convinced that your "old ways" are, if not vastly superior to what the young pip-squeaks are peddling, at least more than adequate for your horses -- just as your old neighbor does.

The old mind finds comfort in the old and familiar and any new-fangled notion is suspect and assumed wrong, often even overwheliming evidence to the contrary is provided. While there are rare exceptions, it's somewhat pretentious to assume you will be one of them.

You have already staked out the territory of "I know more than you" with a neighbor. That won't get any less as you get older, unless you are just a teenager now -- then life is apt to kick you in the ass and straighten you out.

If you are correct in the horse being "geriatric", it will die sooner rather than later no matter what meddling you indulge yourself in. And many times there is no kindness in "extending life" that is really only "prolonging death".

[Rebmik]

Unless there's some major breakthrough in manipulating the old brain, at 80, you'll be just as convinced that your "old ways" are, if not vastly superior to what the young pip-squeaks are peddling, at least more than adequate for your horses -- just as your old neighbor does.

The old mind finds comfort in the old and familiar and any new-fangled notion is suspect and assumed wrong, often even overwheliming evidence to the contrary is provided. While there are rare exceptions, it's somewhat pretentious to assume you will be one of them.

You have already staked out the territory of "I know more than you" with a neighbor. That won't get any less as you get older, unless you are just a teenager now -- then life is apt to kick you in the ass and straighten you out.

If you are correct in the horse being "geriatric", it will die sooner rather than later no matter what meddling you indulge yourself in. And many times there is no kindness in "extending life" that is really only "prolonging death".

Not sure where we got off on the wrong foot, .... I would like to clarify that I am not a teenager, but 1/2 to 80 myself, also this is NOT a neighbor, but an elderly gentleman that I rent his barn/cabin, so his horses are my "roommates" so to speak. He has another horse that is 9yo that could still have a long life ahead of it. However he has never had his teeth floated, didn't get dewormed prior to me moving in, their stalls had over 1 ft of manure, urine and rotten feed that drops out of their mouth in them and this is where they ate, and ate off the ground in these stalls. this horse has foundered numerous times b/c he continued to "break into" feed room where his sweet feed is and gorge...we constructed horse-proof feed room...I could go on and on, but it's really pointless. I spoke with owner last night, he said he hadn't noticed that horse looked so bad and he said he will have the vet out to check him:) I hope the horse is okay, which is the only thing I wanted in the first place

[Cherry]

this is a very delicate and sensitive subject for him because he really thinks he knows best:cry:
Since the guy is so stuck on what he believes how do you think you're going to change his mind??? If his mind isn't open it doesn't matter what you know--he's not going to believe you. Can you put a bug in the vet's ear??? Perhaps if the vet talks to him about these issues (IR and Cushing's) the old guy might listen, or he might think it's a conspiracy by the vet to make him spend more money on the horses. :uhoh: Those problems, plus his age make it tough to get the proper help for these horses. If the horses do need special care, well, some people can provide it and some people can't....

Without testing for IR and Cushing's (and some other stuff, like the functioning of internal organs) you aren't going to know exactly what's going on with these horses. Plus, if I were you I'd weigh those twelve cups of feed to see how much it is--it could be the horse simply isn't getting enough calories and that is why it's thin. Could be a dozen things but nothing will get accomplished if you don't have the owner on board when it comes to a resolution..... :uhoh:

Before you go looking to get on the Cushings bandwagon, you might first want to consider the more mundane and more unglamorous probabilities.
Uh, greysandbays--there is no Cushing's bandwagon! It is a real threat for older horses--if you haven't experienced it yet, good for you. But for those of us who have had to deal with it--it truly is as unglamorous (if not more so) than other equine diseases!!!!! Just ask Coreene.... ;)

Good luck with this situation....

[Rebmik]

Thank you Cherry,
Yes we owner and I had good talk yesterday and vet is coming out. Vet has worked with me in the past to get him to deworm the horses regularly, so hopefully we can find something to help this horse one way or the other. It is not that he doesn't love his horses! Just seems more and more like some other issues are going on with owner and he just doesn't notice things or forget weird stuff that he didn't when we first move in...I know how he feels! feels like my memory slips daily!!!;)

[greysandbays]

Since the guy is so stuck on what he believes how do you think you're going to change his mind??? If his mind isn't open it doesn't matter what you know--he's not going to believe you. Can you put a bug in the vet's ear??? Perhaps if the vet talks to him about these issues (IR and Cushing's) the old guy might listen, or he might think it's a conspiracy by the vet to make him spend more money on the horses. :uhoh: Those problems, plus his age make it tough to get the proper help for these horses. If the horses do need special care, well, some people can provide it and some people can't....

Without testing for IR and Cushing's (and some other stuff, like the functioning of internal organs) you aren't going to know exactly what's going on with these horses. Plus, if I were you I'd weigh those twelve cups of feed to see how much it is--it could be the horse simply isn't getting enough calories and that is why it's thin. Could be a dozen things but nothing will get accomplished if you don't have the owner on board when it comes to a resolution..... :uhoh:


Uh, greysandbays--there is no Cushing's bandwagon! It is a real threat for older horses--if you haven't experienced it yet, good for you. But for those of us who have had to deal with it--it truly is as unglamorous (if not more so) than other equine diseases!!!!! Just ask Coreene.... ;)

Good luck with this situation....

Of course there's a Cushing's bandwagon and it seems like half this forum is on it!!! BTW, just because it may be a "real threat for older horses", doesn't mean it can't be fashionable to spout off and speculate about how every eye goober, sore foot, and long hair to be found is a sure-fire sign of it, and to "know a horse who has it".

You will note that OP did not title her thread "Older horse not doing well" much less "How can I help an elderly BO whose horses have issues". Instead, she trotted out CUSHINGS right off the bat, like she was eager for it to be that instead of the more probable "horse not getting enough food" (which you yourself suggested might be the problem and stated that "without testing...you aren't going to know...what's going on...!!) or any of the other "dozen things" you mentioned.