Varmints and air rifles

[CatOnLap]

{flame suit on}

Look, I'm your usual animal lovin', death hatin' female.
I don't like poison because of the abundance of roaming pet cats and dogs in the neighbourhood.
I don't like to kill things.
In our country you are not allowed to own any sort of gun, even a .22, without a million and two government permits and training course. I had all that 30 years ago, but they've all lapsed. I even went hunting and killed stuff when I was married to a hunter, plus I'm a pretty accurate shot with a rifle or a hand gun but I digress.

We have large grey squirrels. They moved in about 8 years ago. They are not native to our island and the pet pair let loose in 1959 have pretty much displaced the much smaller and pine nut eating red squirrels. The grey squirrels are very fond of domestic farm crops. I haven't harvested a single bing cherry or walnut since the damn squirrels moved in and the trees are full every year. I used to get about a bushel of nuts and at least 5 gallons of cherries.

Is an air rifle powerful enough to kill a squirrel at a range of say, 50 feet? :confused:

[Tom King]

Yes, but they aren't cheap. Look in the Cabela's catalog or website for the expensive pellet guns with high velocities and also choose the right pellet.

[CatOnLap]

s'OK.I can legally buy an air rifle here and money isn't the limit- the law is. and yes, I'll look for the high velocity and the alloy pellets. Thanks Tom.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0012700223538a&type=product&cmCat=SEARCH_all&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&Ntk=Products&QueryText=air+rifle&sort=all&_D%3AhasJS=+&N=0&Nty=1&hasJS=true&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcommon%2Fsearch%2Fsearch-box.jsp.form23&_dyncharset=ISO-8859-1

What about that one?
It has a 33 lb spring load- can your average dainty lady cock that or what? :confused:

[Trakehner]

Get a scope for your air-rifle....and make sure it's a scope rated for air-rifles. They have a two directional pulse when fired, normal rifle scopes only have to deal with a one-direction pulse. A 4 power scope will be lots (and typically pretty bright optics)...you don't need more powerful than that.

Get hunting pellets. You'll find the rifles in typically 2 calibers, .177 & .22. For squirrels, the .177 will be more than sufficient.

There's no kick no matter what caliber you get.

[Tom King]

Yeah, that's what I was talking about but also check Walmart. At one time they sold a Daisy for about 100 bucks that was 1200 fps too but I haven't been in one for a while.

[MikeP]

Get a scope for your air-rifle....and make sure it's a scope rated for air-rifles. They have a two directional pulse when fired, normal rifle scopes only have to deal with a one-direction pulse. A 4 power scope will be lots (and typically pretty bright optics)...you don't need more powerful than that.


Quick question: Why do you want a scope for something that has an effective range of 50 yards at the most? I'd rather use the gun's iron sights for close shooting. (close being anything less than 100 yards.)

Of course, if you know something about air rifles and scopes that I don't know(entirely possible), please enlighten me.

[CatOnLap]

Scopes-
Well, as I've been shopping, the ones with the high speed- more than 750 fps, claim accuracy at ranges of up to 200 yards. I'd need a scope for that. But as I can easily get within 50 feet of the ratswithfuzzytails, I can probably make do with just plain sights.

[lizathenag]

timely post.
I was thinking about getting a BB handgun for the bicyclists who laughed and the rode past me on the trail yesterday after I had called to them to slow down please. . ..(just kidding sort of)

[Parker_Rider]

Let me know how the airgun works... I've got a woodpecker that I need to scare the bejesus out of (darn endangered species ;) haha) We have a crab apple tree that we haven't gotten any fruit off of in years because of the deer. Every time I see a recipe for crab apples it breaks my heart...(love the deer in the backyard, but want the fruit!!) I feel for you with those pesky squirrels!!!

ETA: If the squirrels keep coming back, have you put out squirrel food for them to keep them away from your cherries and walnuts? It might distract them enough... but then again if I were a squirrel, your tasty cherries would trump a piece of corn... Just a thought from the side of me that is screaming "Don't kill them!!" ;)

[CatOnLap]

Yeah, I hear ya, and even though they are an invasive foreign species that robs my larder...can I really pull the trigger on cute little nuckinfutz?

Putting out corn and sunflower seeds has apparently just let the population explode and my cats cannot catch the things- they sit in the tree and throw acorns and pin cones at the dogs...

They are not very healthy though- this spring their tails are all ratty and they ahve fur patches missing0- I think they are overpopualting themselves or something.

[mares tails]

Beeman also makes some nice air rifles.

Don't know about squirrels, but the conical-tipped pellets go pretty far into fence posts :)

[SGray]

starlings and cowbirds are the problem in my area

Texas Parks and Wildlife even has a trapping program
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/huntwild/wild/nuisance/cowbirds/trapping_program/index.phtml
for cowbirds to protect native species

"all birds except Rock Dove (Domestic Pigeons), Starlings, English Sparrows, Grackles, Ravens, Red-winged Blackbirds, Cowbirds, and Crows are protected under state law and the fine for shooting a protected bird can be from $10 to $200 per bird. Check federal laws for additional regulations."

usually my little Daisy just scares them off but I managed to get a head shot last week and took out a starling

the english sparrows and grackles and such can be annoying but the starlings and cowbirds - since they lay their eggs in others nests and their babies throw the native babies out of the nest - offend me

[Tom King]

I called my shooting expert friend to ask about this. He has the exact same gun you posted the link to from Cabela's and says it works great. He also says the Daisy gun is junk.

I'd say the range is up to 75 feet and don't use a scope for close moving targets. Go for the shot at the base of the skull. One thing about a pellet gun is that practice is cheap.

[goodhors]

Not being a gun person, does that pellet gun have enough power to finish off a possum or racoon? Our pellet gun, which I think is a Daisy, doesn't do a useful job. Even at very close range. Was purchased for target shooting quite a while ago, may be it's only useful function.

Just wondering, because a gun should a better job than the garden implements that are used now, to finish varmints off after the dog gets done tossing them around. Guess she figures she did her part, mauling them.

[2bee]

Quick question: Why do you want a scope for something that has an effective range of 50 yards at the most? I'd rather use the gun's iron sights for close shooting. (close being anything less than 100 yards.)

Of course, if you know something about air rifles and scopes that I don't know(entirely possible), please enlighten me.

Depends on how good your eyes are, a squirrel is a pretty small target at 50 yards...........at my age.

[2bee]

Scopes-
Well, as I've been shopping, the ones with the high speed- more than 750 fps, claim accuracy at ranges of up to 200 yards. I'd need a scope for that. But as I can easily get within 50 feet of the ratswithfuzzytails, I can probably make do with just plain sights.


Dont write off the scope yet, after you drop the first few it wont be so easy to get within 50 feet of them.

[MikeP]

Acquiring the target, particularly a small, moving target, is much harder with a scope then with the gun's iron sights. For shooting at short distances a scope is more harmful then helpful, to say nothing of the added expense.

I've got somewhere around 25 guns here of various sizes and types. (Step dad and a couple of great uncles were gun freaks.)

The only one that has a scope is one high-powered rifle, a .270 Winchester. I use that one to "reach out and touch" when a long shot is needed. I can shoot all the rest of them just fine with their regular sights.

Add a pair of bi-focals and I'm good for rat shooting out to 75 yards with iron sights on a .22 rifle.

[Trakehner]

First off...you do not shoot at a moving target. Your life is not being threatened by a bushy tailed varmint.

A scope is your friend, especially for beginners. You can more easily see where the pellet is going to, hopefully, go. You can improve your chances of hitting what you're aiming at for a very simple reason...scopes remove several variables (and as with riding, less variables makes for a happy horse...happy shooters too!). When you're watching birds, do you use a binocular to see better or just say, "I've got young eyes, I don't need a binocular".

Can a pellet gun kill a racoon? You betcha, they can kill people too! But, not a low-powered toy sort of pellet gun. They don't have enough power. You want a hunting level of velocity (1,100 FPS or higher...thereabouts). For hunting larger stuff, people go to a .22 or .25. For squirrels, you don't need this power.

[2bee]

Acquiring the target, particularly a small, moving target, is much harder with a scope then with the gun's iron sights. For shooting at short distances a scope is more harmful then helpful, to say nothing of the added expense.

I've got somewhere around 25 guns here of various sizes and types. (Step dad and a couple of great uncles were gun freaks.)

The only one that has a scope is one high-powered rifle, a .270 Winchester. I use that one to "reach out and touch" when a long shot is needed. I can shoot all the rest of them just fine with their regular sights.

Add a pair of bi-focals and I'm good for rat shooting out to 75 yards with iron sights on a .22 rifle.

Trakehner is exactly right. Safety first. Even if it is only a pest youre shooting at, all attempts to be as safe, efficient and accurate should be made.

Secondly, even with bi-focals at 75 yards a rat is easily covered by the front sight. This does not allow any sort of precision, for a rat/.22 that may be acceptable to you. Making headshots with the lower power of a pellet gun, a higher level of precision is required and will not be available with open sights once the distance is measured in yards. Not saying it cant be done, just not done as well.

A scope makes things more efficient. My hunting rifles are precision instruments, why would I handicap them with open sights? What are you trying to prove with the open sight argument?

[MikeP]

What are you trying to prove with the open sight argument?

That a scope is not necessary, and usually is not even an advantage on an air rifle.

I find a scope to be encumbering and inefficient when shooting at short distances. If you like to use a scope for short distance shooting fine, but to say one is necessary or even desirable for the average air rifle shooter is questionable advice, IMHO.

My hunting rifles are precision instruments, why would I handicap them with open sights?

Unless your hunting rifles are air guns, you're comparing apples to oranges here.

[2bee]

That a scope is not necessary, and usually is not even an advantage on an air rifle.

I find a scope to be encumbering and inefficient when shooting at short distances. If you like to use a scope for short distance shooting fine, but to say one is necessary or even desirable for the average air rifle shooter is questionable advice, IMHO.



Unless your hunting rifles are air guns, you're comparing apples to oranges here.

I never claimed a scope is "necessary", but I can all but guarantee most people would appreciate one. Additionally it depends on your definition of short distances? To me, we have to consider the gun. To effectively use a pellet gun at its limits (which she will be once a few squirrels are killed) on the small targets it is intended for, a scope will be an advantage. We aren't talking about shooting cans with a Red Ryder.

No, my hunting rifles are not air guns. But if you keep in perspective the intended targets and the range that gun will be effective on those targets, it is fairly apples to apples. A deer at 300 yards, or a squirrel at 30 yards. In both situations the front sight will mostly obscure the target, making precise shots unlikely. The magnification power and fine cross hairs of a scope allow for more precise shot placement at any range, any gun, any target.........no matter how you cut it. Unless you're hunting dangerous game in the brush, then open sights have the advantage..........don't think squirrels fall into that category.

You're certainly free to prefer open sights, but I suspect that Bushnell, Weaver, Tasco, Simmons etc. would agree that opinion is in the minority. ;)

[buck22]

coming from a dainty lady, get this one:
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0040373228197a&type=product&cmCat=SEARCH_all&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&Ntk=Products&QueryText=gamo+hunter+&sort=all&Go.y=0&_D%3AhasJS=+&N=0&Nty=1&hasJS=true&Go.x=0&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcommon%2Fsearch%2Fsearch-box.jsp.form23&_dyncharset=ISO-8859-1

if you simply desire to reduce population in as a humane a manner as possible, then for the sake of humanity, you want to be as accurate as possible, get a scope. This package comes with a decent scope, and the appropriate mounts.

The gamo elite gold pellets are the most deadly and deliver the swiftest kill. The air rifle is powerful enough for most varmints, but you still want accurate head shots on anything larger than a squirrel.

the gun is virtually maintenance free, but do get the cleaning patches, shoot a wad of 3 patches every 500-1000 shots or so. thats it.

you mention you've hunted and shot before and are handy, if so, you will notice the trigger on this gun stinks. You can google up gamo gunsmiths that will install a new trigger for you once you break it in (1000 shots or so).

air rifles do have recoil, but its very minimal and almost not worth mentioning... and the recoil is odd, because unlike the combustion from gunpowder that sends the gun stock into your shoulder, air rifles have an air chamber and piston (that you cock, on a break barrel gun anyhow). When you squeeze the trigger, you loose the piston and it shoves air forward, which shoots the pellet. The gun recoils forward then back. This is why you can't use regular rifle scopes and mounts on an air rifle.

When you shoot an air rifle, hold it like a ripe tomato for accuracy. It takes some time to get to know.

I have watched this gun be handily used by an 11 yr old, cocked and shot without problem. Gamo is a good brand, not the fanciest, and the trigger does stink, but all the parts that count are well made and will last.

I haven't read the other posts so I apologize if I'm repeating info.

[Mozart]

Yeah, I hear ya, and even though they are an invasive foreign species that robs my larder...can I really pull the trigger on cute little nuckinfutz?

Putting out corn and sunflower seeds has apparently just let the population explode and my cats cannot catch the things- they sit in the tree and throw acorns and pin cones at the dogs...

They are not very healthy though- this spring their tails are all ratty and they ahve fur patches missing0- I think they are overpopualting themselves or something.

As my departed and much missed father-in-law used to say "Squirrels are just rats with good P.R."

[Parker_Rider]

As my departed and much missed father-in-law used to say "Squirrels are just rats with good P.R."

LOL this is so accurate! However, I'd be burned at the stake in my house for saying this: my mom has loved squirrels forever and she talks to them even. AND THEY RESPOND!!! We were in San Diego overlooking the water on a hill and there were all these squirrels halfway down the hill. What does my mom do? Start chirping to them. The squirrels all started running up the hill to her and ended up at her feet and my mom flipped out! Apparently she's been doing this since she was a teenager, but never got such a pointed response ;)

OP... good luck getting rid of the invasive species. With any luck, they might just hightail it out of there once some of their relatives start getting their tails blown off. (awww, poor things!! what can I say, I'm conflicted.)

[asbjockey]

timely post.
I was thinking about getting a BB handgun for the bicyclists who laughed and the rode past me on the trail yesterday after I had called to them to slow down please. . ..(just kidding sort of)

Oh do I know what you mean. It's gotten to the point that I just don't ride the shared trails anymore because of them. Plus they act like they own the roads around here as well.

Did have one cyclist totally stop for us twice. We told him that he didn't really have to stop for us. He told us that it was quite alright - he used to ride horses at one time.

[MikeP]

You're certainly free to prefer open sights, but I suspect that Bushnell, Weaver, Tasco, Simmons etc. would agree that opinion is in the minority.

Of course those companies won't agree with me, at least publicly. They are in the business of selling scopes! ;)

[2bee]

Of course those companies won't agree with me, at least publicly. They are in the business of selling scopes! ;)

I believe you have missed my point. The sales numbers of scopes support the fact that they are in fact very popular, no doubt for the reasons listed earlier in this thread.

Even if you posses some type of superior eyesight/skill, you should still be able to understand most people will benefit from a scope. You will also notice the amount of people advising to use the scope outnumber the people saying it wont be necessary.

If she does not want to spend the money on a scope, then by all means begin the population control. A scope can be added at any time. Once the furry little guys sense their genocide is imminent, the reasoning behind using a scope will become clear.

[CatOnLap]

thank you all for your interesting and informative discussion points! Please don't let this turn into a "pistols at dawn" scenario!

I have hunted game birds and waterfowl with some accuracy in the past, but I admit my most frequent "prey" has been a target on a strawbale. I have never used a scope, only barrel mounted sites.

Going air rifle shopping today...

[MikeP]

I believe you have missed my point. The sales numbers of scopes support the fact that they are in fact very popular,.....

I fear you have missed MY point: Got any idea what percentage of those scopes sold are planned for air rifles? Less than 1/2 of 1%? I'd think that's about right. Do 1/2 of 1% of all air rifles have a scope? I venture to say not, and there's a reason for THAT as well. It's because most air rifle shooters don't see the need for a scope.

But, as the OP said, enough of this. I won't put a scope on a .22 rimfire or anything of lesser power than that. If you want a scope on a rubber-band shooter, fine, put one on it.

[2bee]

I fear you have missed MY point: Got any idea what percentage of those scopes sold are planned for air rifles? Less than 1/2 of 1%? I'd think that's about right. Do 1/2 of 1% of all air rifles have a scope? I venture to say not, and there's a reason for THAT as well. It's because most air rifle shooters don't see the need for a scope.

But, as the OP said, enough of this. I won't put a scope on a .22 rimfire or anything of lesser power than that. If you want a scope on a rubber-band shooter, fine, put one on it.

:rolleyes: Do 1/2 of 1% of air rifles have a scope......youre joking. Take a look at Cabelas (http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/index/index-display.jsp?cmCat=SEARCH_all&id=cat20742). Not counting the Airsoft guns that shoot the plastic BB's, I counted 60 air rifles. 58 of them are sold with scopes..........maybe they just carry those products because no one buys them? Yeah, right.

Now go to the Crosman or Daisy websites and take a look at their product lines. At least half of their offerings come as a package WITH a scope.

But youre right, enough of this. I have better things to do........like mounting a scope on my TV remote. :D

[goodhors]

But youre right, enough of this. I have better things to do........like mounting a scope on my TV remote. :D


Wow, hadn't thought of that! Speedier channel changing. Does it really save pushing the channel button twice when changing the channels? Something my husband has not thought of trying yet.