What are they? Found in horses' manure...ick *Update* PicPost #30 Verdict #85, pg 5 [Archive]

myhorsefaith

Mar. 21, 2009, 12:14 AM

So today i got to the barn early, and decided to muck my horses' stalls. I do this a few days a week to give the girl who cleans a bit of a break- plus I like to see how my horses' manure is.

I was quite surprised today to see in my gelding's stall, picked poop piles that were quite riddled with something-that-wasn't-digested-grass. They were kidney bean size, and sort of shaped, brown/gray things with little white head (like a pimple) on the tip. They were not moving, at least, not to my naked eye. :dead:

I immediately called my vet and left a vm with a description of what I saw. Then checked my mare's manure, and she too, had them- but much,much less. Still, I grabbed some baggies and took samples.

Vet called me back and didn't know from my description, so I'm bringing her samples tomorrow. But of course i want to know before then, and so on I post.

In January they were both powerpacked, followed by the anthelcide treatment, and are within a week's due of equimax (we follow the EqT protocol).

Diet:

Timothy (2nd cutting) free choice in stalls 10 hours a day.

1 mid-afternoon feeding of 1 lb tim/alfalfa pellets

evening
1.5 lb alfalfa pellets
LMF supersupplement (ration balancer)
Flax 1/4 cup scoop
Selen Yeast 1mg (right now, not always)
MSM
Remission

So...ideas for what they are? My mind, of course, immediately jumps to parasites. FWIW, the gelding's manure (he had more of the "things" in his poo), was shredded as if it had been picked by birds. The mare's was not, and she had the "things" in her poo as well, but not nearly as many.

Ick. Ick. Ick. Ick.

Foxtrot's

Mar. 21, 2009, 12:25 AM

Had they been recently wormed? Bots?

myhorsefaith

Mar. 21, 2009, 12:28 AM

bntnail

Mar. 21, 2009, 12:54 AM

Are the horses turned out w/ or near trees? Sounds like the seeds from Locust tree. Have long slender seed pods w/ seeds like kidney bean inside. Don't know if toxic,but I'm sure the bark is.

myhorsefaith

Mar. 21, 2009, 01:09 AM

nope, gravel paddocks, cleaned daily, no trees.

they do get a day or 2 a week in the pasture, depending on weather, but no locust trees there either. And they havent been out to pasture in over a week because its been raining here. :(

Donkey

Mar. 21, 2009, 01:37 AM

fourmares

Mar. 21, 2009, 01:41 AM

Did you try smooshing one? It might help you to determine if it is a living thing or some kind of seed.

Mersy

Mar. 21, 2009, 02:04 AM

Tapeworm segments, maybe?

Hampton Bay

Mar. 21, 2009, 02:17 AM

Tapeworm segments are a lot smaller than a kidney bean, at least the ones I have seen.

No clue, but ick! I would try to squish one too just to see.

silver2

Mar. 21, 2009, 03:49 AM

Cut them open, at this point they don't even sound like animals so that is the first thing to determine. If you are too squeamish I am sure there is someone at the barn who is more than happy to do it for you.

TrueColours

Mar. 21, 2009, 07:22 AM

I dont suppose you can post pictures of these "things" can you???

VERY intriguing! :yes:

Sakura

Mar. 21, 2009, 08:00 AM

I dont suppose you can post pictures of these "things" can you???

VERY intriguing! :yes:

Pictures! Pictures! Pictures!

ThoroughbredFancy

Mar. 21, 2009, 08:17 AM

Pictures and a dissection please. :D

JohnDeere

Mar. 21, 2009, 08:41 AM

You quys are flippin' wierd.

Frank B

Mar. 21, 2009, 09:19 AM

All in the interest of science, My Dear. All in the interest of science! :lol:

Eventer55

Mar. 21, 2009, 09:42 AM

I vote for a dissection and photos ( before and after) Just take a sharp pocket knife and slice. Animal , vegetable or mineral?????:cool: Enquiring minds want to know.

myhorsefaith

Mar. 21, 2009, 11:48 AM

LOL I will go out there this morning armed with a knife and a camera. :winkgrin:

MistyBlue

Mar. 21, 2009, 03:03 PM

Can't wait to see photos!

Auventera Two

Mar. 21, 2009, 03:29 PM

Yay! I want pictures!!!

From the description, my vote is bots! :eek: :dead:

allpurpose

Mar. 21, 2009, 04:22 PM

You quys are flippin' wierd.

And it would be SO much better if there were pus....just sayin'!!:no::no:

Laurierace

Mar. 21, 2009, 07:49 PM

And it would be SO much better if there were pus....just sayin'!!:no::no:

It really doesn't get any cooler than that does it?

OverOxers

Mar. 21, 2009, 08:47 PM

It really doesn't get any cooler than that does it?

It could be old chunky puss. That would be better!

Laurierace

Mar. 21, 2009, 08:49 PM

Suffice to say I took a field trip to the medical examiner's office. It was the most amazing/coolest thing I have ever seen. That was a gross out lover's paradise.

millwrightmomma

Mar. 21, 2009, 09:10 PM

Mr MWM suggested using them as a topping on a tossed salad :D maybe a little balsamic, vinegarette dressing :) :no: :eek:

Mr MWM is not allowed to cook at our house :) ;)

jn4jenny

Mar. 21, 2009, 09:17 PM

Mr MWM suggested using them as a topping on a tossed salad :D maybe a little balsamic, vinegarette dressing :) :no: :eek:

Mr MWM is not allowed to cook at our house :) ;)

Bugs and parasites are generally GREAT sources of protein.

And they are usually pretty tasty when baked or fried. Ask me how I know.

Laurierace

Mar. 21, 2009, 09:20 PM

Mr MWM suggested using them as a topping on a tossed salad :D maybe a little balsamic, vinegarette dressing :) :no: :eek:

Mr MWM is not allowed to cook at our house :) ;)

Now see picking something out of a horse's manure and eating it goes beyond gross to flat out weird.

mswillie

Mar. 21, 2009, 09:34 PM

Now see picking something out of a horse's manure and eating it goes beyond gross to flat out weird.

and yet:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kopi_Luwak :eek:

at up to $600.00/lb. US.

I do loffs my coffee, but I gotta draw the line somewhere, and I think it's pretty much drawn somewhere before picking the beans out of civet poo.

allpurpose

Mar. 21, 2009, 09:41 PM

It could be old chunky puss. That would be better!

Oh you bet! Sigh...bet there's no pus on this thread. I'll have to look elsewhere :no:

grayarabs

Mar. 21, 2009, 10:16 PM

Begs the question - the UFO's - origin - prepoop or postpoop?
As an aside - have you ever seen your dog's poop move across your patio? I thought I was seeing things - looked out the window - and saw the poop moving (my bad for not picking up immediately) - of course I had to inspect. Dung beetles in this case.
Which brings me to: I am in possession of the family dung beetle. Apparently my ggggrandfather went on expedition somewhere - Amazon? - and I have his "kit".
Included is a very large dung beetle. 150 years old or more. When I watch
"Antique Roadshow" I sometimes wonder.........

myhorsefaith

Mar. 21, 2009, 10:33 PM

LOL UFO...unidentified fecal object?

So today there weren't nearly as many in the piles- of both horses. But they were definitely IN the piles, like, I had to dig and pick apart the poo to find them. So I dont think its a rat or some animal dropping turds.

So my pictures are bad- I have the Worlds Crappiest Camera and can't get it to focus on the little things without going blurry. I tried my best.

Should've brought a ruler to show size. they are a little longer than an inch, and they are wet in these pictures, but are perfectly smooth. And when rinsed off, they are dark grey in color.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b216/myhorsefaith/Ewww/eww2.jpg

I cut one open, and its mush inside- ever disect a frog's body parts? kinda like the consistency of the liver. just mush.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b216/myhorsefaith/Ewww/eww1.jpg

Dropped the poo samples off at the vet's office...let's see if we can ID it before she does! LOL there should be a prize or something for the first correct guess...

GilbertsCreeksideAcres

Mar. 21, 2009, 10:39 PM

I guess: Something GROSS!
I win!

ThoroughbredFancy

Mar. 21, 2009, 10:43 PM

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b216/myhorsefaith/Ewww/eww2.jpg

:lol: I like the title in the link.

I have no idea though. I don't have much experience when it comes to parasites/worms/squirmy objects. They just look like little slugs to me. I'm curious to see what others have to say!

EqTrainer

Mar. 21, 2009, 10:45 PM

Oh My God that is gross. Nevermind on that before bed snack now.

myhorsefaith

Mar. 21, 2009, 10:47 PM

Ahh, I know its bad when EqT says THAT. :lol:

Hampton Bay

Mar. 21, 2009, 10:59 PM

Oh My God that is gross. Nevermind on that before bed snack now.

Makes me wonder what you eat as a pre-bed snack.... j/k

I still have my appetite for cupcakes. Though I am also brain-damaged and have a killer headache right now, so I cannot really see the pictures too well. Too hard to focus the eyes.

BumbleBee

Mar. 21, 2009, 11:00 PM

My guess is worm cocoon. No idea what type, or even if it's called a cocoon. We had the earthworm version in my garden at the old house.

MunchkinsMom

Mar. 21, 2009, 11:00 PM

Ick, ick ick! Sorry I am no help. Just had to say, the thread title is like a car wreck, I just had to slow down to see what was going on in here. This thread should get a tonne of views :lol:

Good luck figuring out the mystery. I sincerely hope it turns out to be something harmless and that nothing hatches in your sample containers ;)

I'm no help either, but the title did draw me in, triggered by my morbid curiosity!

I'm thinking that since the inside was the same color and consistancy as the outside that it is more vegetative material of some sort, and hopefully not parasitic.

Mary in Area 1

Mar. 21, 2009, 11:02 PM

Looks like little........poops!

Catersun

Mar. 21, 2009, 11:07 PM

I vote snail or maybe slug.

Laurierace

Mar. 21, 2009, 11:14 PM

Looks like little........poops!

That was my thought as well. I had a rat locked in my feedroom for a while and that is exactly what it looked like. How that would get into the manure is another subject however.

greysandbays

Mar. 21, 2009, 11:17 PM

and yet:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kopi_Luwak :eek:

at up to $600.00/lb. US.

I do loffs my coffee, but I gotta draw the line somewhere, and I think it's pretty much drawn somewhere before picking the beans out of civet poo.

I gotta draw the line somewhere too, and I think it's pretty much drawn WAAAAYYYYYYYYY before $600/lb!! :eek::eek: :D

Foxtrot's

Mar. 21, 2009, 11:20 PM

Take back my vote for bots - too dark.

greysandbays

Mar. 21, 2009, 11:29 PM

Take back my vote for bots - too dark.

Some kind of fluke maybe? I know cows and sheep get liver flukes...

MunchkinsMom

Mar. 21, 2009, 11:35 PM

Some kind of fluke maybe? I know cows and sheep get liver flukes...

Ewww, I had to go and google that, and here is what I found:

http://sprojects.mmi.mcgill.ca/tropmed/disease/intest-livfluke/life.htm

Scroll down past the picture to get some descriptions.
Even better, humans can get them too!

eyesontheground

Mar. 21, 2009, 11:36 PM

This is the grossest, most fantastic thread I have read in a while. I have no idea what those are. Can't wait to find out.

Do any of the other horses in the barn have these too?

I can't wait until you come back to tell us someone walked in on you poking through their horses poop. :D

silver2

Mar. 21, 2009, 11:41 PM

That doesn't really look like a liver fluke. It looks like poop balls or vegetative matter of some sort. Looked through your hay lately?

myhorsefaith

Mar. 21, 2009, 11:46 PM

yep- i stuff their hay into small hole hay nets every single day. they are from 110 lb bales, and so, in order to make the hay fit, i have to break apart the flakes and then smush smush smush into the net...i am actually impressed at my skill, lol i have it down.:D So if there was something wacky in the hay, i'd see it... I think.

decorum

Mar. 22, 2009, 12:23 AM

I am eagerly awaiting the diagnosis! That is gross. I am assuming you are in WA and on the wetside and so am I, I want to know what nasties I may be up against. Never seen those before. ;)

Foxtrot's

Mar. 22, 2009, 12:27 AM

Do they have anything that resembles - say - a head, nose, mouth, etc? i.e. a front end or whatever?
Where's Ghazzu when you need her?

stryder

Mar. 22, 2009, 12:32 AM

I vote snail or maybe slug.

I'm with you.

jsf

Mar. 22, 2009, 12:57 AM

I have never seen this in any of my horse's manure ( I clean stalls daily) and I would be shocked to see this. Please let us know as soon as you do. My sister is out near you I'm sending her the link to see if she has ever seen it in her horses.

Mtn trails

Mar. 22, 2009, 02:55 AM

Very gross indeed. I too want to know if I should be looking for these in my horsie's poo.

BeaSting

Mar. 22, 2009, 06:38 AM

Looks like some sort of pupa.

cloudyandcallie

Mar. 22, 2009, 08:49 AM

OK, I don't know your horse's "manure schedule" but mine manure about every 2 hours. I even had Cloudy and Callie "trained" to manure just before I left the barn so that I could clean that up.

So, are these things in the manure when it comes out of your horses, or are they deposited in the manure after it comes out?
Stay with your horses long enough for both to manure. As soon as each one does, using a rubber glove, check thru the manure for the "things". This way you can tell if there is something in your horses, or if there is something in your horses' stalls. If they are coming out of your horses, the vet will tell you what they are. If they are being deposited in the manure after elimination, then spray the stalls with fly spray.

What is it that donkeys get that they can transmit to horses? Are those flukes?

Auventera Two

Mar. 22, 2009, 09:02 AM

Holy cow, this thread is fascinating. :eek:

Ok, I take back the bots vote. Definitely not bots.

It looks like little terds, inside the horse manure. How weird. How did you ever see them in the manure in the first place? I do glance at manure piles to make sure all is well, but not THAT closely. :eek: Maybe I should?

You are a real animal lover to pick these things out, give them a bath, a disection, and a photo shoot. :lol:

curiousgirl

Mar. 22, 2009, 09:17 AM

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b216/myhorsefaith/Ewww/eww2.jpg

I cut one open, and its mush inside- ever disect a frog's body parts? kinda like the consistency of the liver. just mush.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b216/myhorsefaith/Ewww/eww1.jpg

I was afraid to open the link! Do you have cattle around? I've seen this before--was told it was a bot from cows?

Frank B

Mar. 22, 2009, 09:43 AM

Maybe we should contact Mike Rowe?

Chall

Mar. 22, 2009, 10:01 AM

I think curious girl (and other bot voters) are close.
See top left hand corner pic and middle bottom row
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&rlz=1T4GGLJ_en&um=1&q=Hypoderma+lineatum&sa=N&start=18&ndsp=18
Hypoderma lineatum a.k.a Cattle grub, x bot, ox warble ?
and
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/htm/bc/itgcg06.htm

birdsong

Mar. 22, 2009, 10:05 AM

Looks like some sort of pupa.

I have seen them before but they came from the soil, not from manure.

hoopoe

Mar. 22, 2009, 10:07 AM

to me these look like rat feces ( I work with rats and am more than familiar)

If you are finding them on/in the manure I suspect rats are coming and eating the undigested grain in the manure.

flukes in horses are pretty rare and I am not aware that they pass in the manure.

fly larvae ( and bots are one) are not solid inside but rather more "cream filled" Most have segmentations and bristles that help distinguish them one from another.

You can get things like unknown parasites and larvae analysed at most state /vet college labs. An 80% solution of isopropyl alcohol ( 8 parts alcohol 2 parts water) can be a good temporary preservitive.

another easy test would be to put one of these in water. If they dissovle over time you likely have feces.

curiousgirl

Mar. 22, 2009, 10:08 AM

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&rlz=1T4GGLJ_en&um=1&q=Hypoderma+lineatum&sa=N&start=18&ndsp=18

...yeah, middle bottom row...

Milocalwinnings

Mar. 22, 2009, 10:12 AM

Looks like little........poops!

They look like hedgehog poo... but I'm guessing you don't have hedgehogs wandering around your barn:lol:

pines4equines

Mar. 22, 2009, 10:43 AM

Oh my god, previous poster said "cream filled". I'll never eat any cream filled danish again...EEEEWWWWWW is right! Keep us posted...

Chall

Mar. 22, 2009, 10:44 AM

...yeah, middle bottom row...
It's a google search, so pictures are added all the time, and the image "moves". Here is the closeup of the source site:
http://darwin.bio.ucm.es/usuarios/eaa/cont/images/foto119.jpg (in Spanish?!)

myhorsefaith

Mar. 22, 2009, 10:46 AM

LOL, you guys are funny... AND have good advice.

I'm going to be with them all day since we're moving just down the street, so I'll be able to do C & C 's observation.

The thing that is scary is that in the manure yesterday, i had to break apart a fecal ball to find the things.

I first found them 2 days ago when I was cleaning their stalls- it is common to see their poop shredded by birds- i see it all the time, and since they get flax, i figured that is why. But still, I always check to make sure it is shredded poo and not the Big D...which made me saw all the "things"

At first glance, yes, I thought that it was an animal/insect planting them post-poo, since the poo was shredded. But yesterday, I had to break apart the fecal balls to find them. So it'd have to be a clever critter to insert those things post-poo., and at that point I really need to set up a web cam in their stalls, LOL. (which i've always wanted to do anyway, LOL)

Alas, I'm off to the barn for a day of moving fun. I'll be back later with additional info, if there is any! Thanks again! Keep the guesses (and humor) coming!

Griffyn

Mar. 22, 2009, 10:55 AM

I,for one- am waiting with a cup of civet poo coffee and a bot creme filled danish!

I think that if your vet doesnt know I would take it to the local university extension office. They analyze things like that.

jn4jenny

Mar. 22, 2009, 10:58 AM

If it IS cattle grubs, this Merck Veterinary site is saying that cattle grub larvae have been reported in horses in the past and recommends ivermectin or moxidectin to treat it in cows:

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/71402.htm

I wouldn't try the worming protocol without speaking to a vet first since the site warns against trying this while the cattle grubs are migrating--apparently that can create some very bad joo joo.

tweeter

Mar. 22, 2009, 11:08 AM

4 pages, and no one asked what they taste like? You guys are slipping :D

Wonder if you put the in something if you could hatch them?

Equibrit

Mar. 22, 2009, 11:19 AM

Have you checked around for tree seeds ?
Like;http://olharfeliz.typepad.com/jardin/images/magnolia_seeds.jpg

Peg

Mar. 22, 2009, 12:25 PM

We are all sick puppies! I vote bots. Cattle grubs look like that, but erupt from the skin on their backs. Really gross- they chew holes and come out of the body that way. Does any one know about the life cycle of bots- like do they leave the body in poop? Also, when looking at the photos taken- didn't it look like they had hairs on their nasty bodies? Peg

Peg

Mar. 22, 2009, 12:31 PM

Me thinks me found it!!!! http://ipm.ncsu.edu/AG369/notes/horse_bot_flies.html EEWWWWWWW, poor horses. Peg

Equibrit

Mar. 22, 2009, 12:38 PM

Botfly pupa;http://cedarcreek.umn.edu/insects/newslides/029102002001apl.jpg

flea

Mar. 22, 2009, 12:39 PM

cloudyandcallie

Mar. 22, 2009, 02:46 PM

CandC...don't start blaming the donkeys!! :) They are more susceptible to lung worms. However, I have read that part of it is that they don't show symptoms as much as horses so don't get treated. Ivermectin gets rid of lung worms anyway. Other than that I can't think of a more donkey specific disease. I have never known of lung worms in any animals I have known. But maybe its more common in other areas? I am looking forward to the vets identification tomorrow!

OK right it's lungworms, people are always saying that. Sorry to disparage the donkeys.
Y'all do know that flax seeds if not ground, go thru horses? I know people say no, but it happened to me with C&C and I got the plants, so I learned my lesson. But it didn't look creme filled in the manure, in fact I never saw it and poo pooed the seminole nutritionist till the plants grew out of the manure........at 2 different barns. Not that I am constantly inspecting horse manure for worms, consistency, color, etc.:lol:

I agree with whomever suggested trying to incubate the "things". And has someone thought up a name for them yet? Like, oh what are the creme filled chocolate covered great pastries? I forget their name.

pines4equines

Mar. 22, 2009, 03:17 PM

Peg said: "...but erupt from the skin on their backs."

Griffyn said: "...a bot creme filled danish."

Okay enough! This has got to stop! I'm going to the barn and give my horse's back a good scrubbing and I'm throwing anything that remotely looks cream filled OUT! Arh, arh!

flea

Mar. 22, 2009, 03:44 PM

C&C...chocolate eclairs? Spelling may not be right.

EqTrainer

Mar. 22, 2009, 03:44 PM

I am planning to read this thread every time I think of eating something I should not. I don't think anything has taken my appetite away as well as this one!

LarkspurCO

Mar. 22, 2009, 03:54 PM

I am planning to read this thread every time I think of eating something I should not. I don't think anything has taken my appetite away as well as this one!

Hey I have a better diet idea: make the little nasties into a screen saver or desktop background image. This has the dual advantage of (1) destroying appetite and (2) discouraging use of the computer.

allpurpose

Mar. 22, 2009, 03:55 PM

I am planning to read this thread every time I think of eating something I should not. I don't think anything has taken my appetite away as well as this one!

COTH diet? Patent pending...

I'm still bummed there be no pus, however...

Lieslot

Mar. 22, 2009, 04:01 PM

I'm also wondering about liver flukes.
If so the standard horse wormers won't be of any help, so I agree with others talk to vet and give sample to vet to analyze.

cloudyandcallie

Mar. 22, 2009, 04:13 PM

C&C...chocolate eclairs? Spelling may not be right.

Yes! thank you. duh. You can squeeze the pus out. Can you tell I spent my formative years with dogs and cats and horses checking for worms and substance in manure? I should have been a scatologist. And then over 20 yrs in M.E. office on cases. We used to discuss murder cases at lunch in restaurants, and the rooms would get really quiet.:lol: I hope those eclairs were not in the horses, but if they were, I hope they are worm eclairs and not something more serious.

ThisTooShallPass

Mar. 22, 2009, 05:31 PM

Diet? Are you kidding, once I started reading this thread I threw some Pillsbury cookie dough in the oven & grabbed a can of cola.

EqTrainer

Mar. 22, 2009, 05:44 PM

I'm also wondering about liver flukes.
If so the standard horse wormers won't be of any help, so I agree with others talk to vet and give sample to vet to analyze.

;):yes:

They use a double dose of Oxybendazole in I think.. Australia? to kill them. Supposedly we don't have them here in the states. Rightttttttt....

Equibrit

Mar. 22, 2009, 06:14 PM

Fluke; http://www.k-state.edu/parasitology/625tutorials/FIGfasciola08.jpg

goeslikestink

Mar. 22, 2009, 06:27 PM

i thought bots too- but aren't those eggs ribbed? i was just looking online, and all the pictures i can find the eggs are ribbed. these were smooth like a kidney bean, and sort of flat on the sides too, like a kidney bean. they were brown/gray.

they were last dewormed in february.

no not nesscarly

flukes they are worms ----- they are flat and can be big and are greyish

google flukes as in worms infestations

myhorsefaith

Mar. 22, 2009, 08:42 PM

Vet emailed me! Answer is....

you ready???

you sure? ;)

for those who guessed it.....

BOTS!

How those things slipped through the iron-clad deworming protocol of EqT I'll never know.

Griffyn

Mar. 22, 2009, 08:46 PM

Cool! I mean that sucks about what to do about it all, but at least you know.

Zu Zu

Mar. 22, 2009, 08:50 PM

What did the vet say to do about THOSE UGLY THINGS?????????????

houserabbitz

Mar. 22, 2009, 08:58 PM

Haha, I wonder how many times the word "ewwww!!" was used in this thread. :lol:

EqTrainer

Mar. 22, 2009, 09:44 PM

ksojerio

Mar. 22, 2009, 10:28 PM

It really doesn't get any cooler than that does it?

Only if you can pop it like a zit!

gabz

Mar. 22, 2009, 10:33 PM

So were they the pupa exiting in order to burrow into the ground? :confused:
Or were they dead pupa? :confused: (I sure hope that's what they were... )

Between blech blech and ewwww, and laughing at the metaphors on this thread, I've been entralled all weekend. :cool: :eek:

I went with a marble cake with chocolate frosting... no COTH diet here. :D

Okay. almost due for a deworming here... I guess it's boticide time, right?

gabz

Mar. 22, 2009, 10:35 PM

OMG! How horrifying is that! When did you last dewormer your babies w/a boticide? If you use my plan, it can't have been too long ago!

I am going to plan a new attack on bots, give me a little while here to do some homework... and buy more dewormer...

Oh! Are they DEAD?!! How would you find out (cringing here a bit)?

Have you bought any stock yet in United Vet or Horse Health yet? ;)

I worked an Expo booth across from United Vet booth. Those folks are SO great. I told them about the DD E'max and what it does and they always give me a great discount, but this time, they gave me free, extra Equimax!! They had it without the box, so I loaded up!!

Foxtrot's

Mar. 22, 2009, 11:19 PM

You guys are killing me - this has been the highlight of my weekend, almost: I did have a lovely ride in lovely weather on my lovely horse. But I'm disappointed I took my bot vote back - I've only seen them a sort of creamy pus colour. If you wormed in February, it must have missed them and they would be alive???

Bet you never thought it would be this much fun when you started this thread, some COTHers are just weird.

Chall

Mar. 22, 2009, 11:43 PM

fyi "When mature, the larvae release from the stomach and are passed with the feces. The larvae will burrow beneath the soil surface and pupate. Adult flies will emerge from the pupae in 20 to 70 days."

As a follow up, if you compost your manure, ask you vet what do put on the manure so you don't get a bunch of bots in 3 weeks..

gabz

Mar. 23, 2009, 12:10 AM

If you wormed in February, it must have missed them and they would be alive???

She did a power pak in January, then Anthelcide in Feb. I don't know if the PP is a boticide. I think only moxidectin (quest) and ivermectin are boticides. Anthelcide is NOT a boticide.

This is why timing is so important. The horse licks the eggs, the eggs take a certain amount of time to migrate from the mouth to the stomach. Then they hang out in the stomach through the winter. Then they release from the stomach and are expelled and enter the soil.

So, the question remains... were these dead ones that were expelled? or ones ready to burrow into the soil to hatch in 20 - 70 days? ugh ugh ugh..

Would diatamaceous earth be helpful?

Oh.. dear... the OP moved to a new farm, so she left behind the bot larva? :eek: not a nice thing to do.... ;) :no: :o

Foxtrot's

Mar. 23, 2009, 12:42 AM

Around here we hardly see any bots any more. We put it down to being a very horsey area and all the ivermectin that is administered (for bots after the first hard frost - and we sure had lots of that this year). I hate those persistent buzzing flies.

Auventera Two

Mar. 23, 2009, 08:59 AM

I'm thinking that the pupae were DEAD and that's why they were grey colored and smushy. Anybody else think that??? I've seen a bot pupae in real life and it was red, hard, and crunchy. It didn't look like these at all. Even if you google bot pupae, the pics don't look anything like this.

Edited: Ok, I did just fine a reference saying they initially start out soft and grey??? Wow, I never heard that before.

I know that when I've wormed dogs and cats, they pass dead things for a couple days. So maybe the deworming program WAS just fine, and this is the natural passing of the dead pupae. I can't imagine that all that worming didn't kill these things. I think some of you guys WAY overworm your horses as it is. Holy crap. I can't imagine doing more.

Over the Hill

Mar. 23, 2009, 09:28 AM

Auventera Two

Mar. 23, 2009, 09:39 AM

As an interesting side note to this. . . was at the hairdresser the other day, owner is a horseperson and tagging along with her vet as preparation for her entrance into school for vet tech. A few weeks ago, Merrial (sp?) had a scoping clinic locally. She said that almost all of the horses that were scoped showed bots ! Just ewwwwwwwwwwww.

It must be regional because when I took my horse to the scoping clinic, of like 10 or so that were scoped, NONE had bots. I do see bot flies here, but we must not have them like some areas do. It's been at least 2 or 3 years since I've seen any eggs on the hair.

myhorsefaith

Mar. 23, 2009, 09:45 AM

I didn't actually talk to the vet, rather, got an email, so i dont know the answer to the dead/alive question. But I am talking to her today to schedule floats and spring vaccs, so I will.

As for leaving the barn with the bots- good point on the manure pile, and i'll add it to my list of questions for the vet. The manure is hauled away monthly by a removal service, same for the one we just moved to. I'll tell the BO what I found so she can follow the instructions of the vet or do what she feels necessary.

my horses are dewormed pretty vigorously, and perhaps it is all for not because I AM stuck in boarding and never have I ever seen a "barn" deworming plan. Now, I'm in self/partial care sharing a shed-row as well as pasture space with a friend of mine, and we do the same rotation...My horses are the only 2 in their new pasture, and should they get a pasture mate, it'd be from her herd, so they'd be on the same deworming plan. Manure will be removed monthly.