Drinking water

[Icecapade]

So I had a lesson recently and was told adamantly that the horse was not to drink water if they were hot for two hours after said workout... Hay only, no food or water two hours before or after. :confused::confused:

I blinked at him and said you clearly haven't been around endurance horse's.

Anyone else have anyone say this? I've never heard of such a thing. I also posted endurance since most of them clearly drink water throughout a ride and was curious if anyone had heard otherwise, but I was curious about other's experiances with such tidbits!

[Ambrey]

I am pretty sure that's an old wive's tale that has been disproven by science. It definitely was the theory 50 years ago.

http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=1075

[merrygoround]

If you allow your horse to drink, and continue to walk him for cool out, it doesn't matter. If he's already cool, it doesn't matter.

The no water routine went out with girdles, or before. :lol: :lol:

It goes along with the endless hand walking after a ride. I'm adamant about warm-up, and cooling out, but a far more efficient job is done from the saddle.

[pintopiaffe]

My teacher and his staff still remove buckets etc. I find it archaic.

Of course, I also feed after riding... well, and before riding for that matter. Don't want him on empty. But a pound of oats and a couple pounds of beep aren't the issue that the hard feeds were back when horses WORKED for a living.

I think the Atlanta Olympics probably had the best published research re: cooling out a hot horse.

I can't really imagine how you'd pulse down a hot horse on a hot day WITHOUT drinking... <shrugs>

[Icecapade]

lol thanks guys... I was pretty sure I wasn't off my rocker, but then again I did that crazy endurance stuff for years and we ALWAYS drink through out the ride so I thought it was quiet qoookie to say the least, but this guy was um... foreign and I hate to assume someone is totally wrong considering I'm a rank baby at this.

thanks!! =)

[Ambrey]

If you read Black Beauty, one horse colics badly because an unknowing groom gave him water after a hard work. I had to convince my daughter that it wouldn't really happen to our horses ;)

[Pommederue]

I thought it had something to do with the temperature of the water vs temp of horse. If the water is too cold it can cause spasm or something like that...

I've never practiced taking water away from the horse after work...ever.

[JB]

I think the Atlanta Olympics probably had the best published research re: cooling out a hot horse.


Yep.

Some study, not sure if it was part of the Atlanta studies or not, showed this:

A horse who is allowed to drink moderate amounts of water immediately after work, and allowed to drink all he wants in the 2 hours after (or 4, not sure, doesn't much matter), ended up drinking significantly more water than the horse who was allowed water only after having cooled off.

If the horse is thirsty, let him drink.

[slc2]

In fact, it is a problem to have a horse drink a huge amount of icy cold water when it's extremely exhausted, hot after a very hard workout. It can cause colic and/or founder.

Since most of us never work our horses hard, it doesn't usually come up.

When I was young, we 'watered off' horses if they were at all sweated up or had worked hard, taking special care in hot weather.

This routine courtesy Mrs. Victoria Alberta 'Mickey' Way, my instructor most of my young life. In upstate New York, which could have extremely hot, humid summer weather very unexpectedly, even when the horses still had heavy coats from the cold winter.

Fox hunter, eventer, polo player, driving expert, a many generation horse person, who, as a little kid, rode on race horses at the track sidesaddle on a little blanket (her parents trained race horses). Born around the turn of the century (died in 1991 at the age of - well, I think about 90, but not sure).

We first dismounted and the horses were walked with their saddles on and after a time, girth loosened, slightly at first, and a few more holes after walking for a time.

THe saddle was lifted and gently shifted about on the back to allow the circulation to slowly normalize without a big rush of returning blood flow to the skin, which was believed would cause girth sores.

Then the saddles were removed, the saddle back, chest, girth and between the legs washed down, legs washed down with cold water, throat and jaw washed down.

If extremely hot the whole horse could be washed down, but putting water on the back and hind quarters was something that was discouraged except when absolutely necessary.

One of the people at the barn once explained to me that the best areas of the body for blowing off heat are the legs, chest, neck, and between the hind legs, where many blood vessels were close to the surface. He said the large muscles of the back and hind quarter are not the most efficient areas for blowing off heat, and that most old timers associated chilling the large muscles of the hind quarter and back with tieing up and with other problems.

That's when the 'watering off' started. We'd walk in a circle in a shady, breezy spot, and once few times around, the horses were given a bucket of water, and allowed four sips, which we counted by watching their throats. Then walk on. The horses kept moving at an easy, ground covering walk. If it was EXTREMELY hot, the cooling out period might last as much as 45 minutes.

The horses would be washed off and scraped repeatedly while being watered off, til the water coming off them was not warmed up.

It was very effective. The horses cooled off very well, there were very few sore muscles and no heat problems among the horses for all the years I was there. Colic? Never. No cases of founder in all the time I was there. No tieing up, no problems with dehydration or heat stress.

And, as one of the guys told me there, the horses got far more water into them by watering off, than by letting them drink a lot at once; further, the water didn't cause any metabolic problems.

Today, most people debunk what the old timers did, and say it's worthless, even cruel, and science has proven we can give horses that have worked hard, no matter how hard they have worked and how exhausted they are, as much cold water as we like.

I don't. I water off very hot horses and wash them off to get them cooled down. I do use ice and we even are getting a misting fan. But we don't ever give extremely hot, exhausted horses large quantities of water all at once.

[EventerAJ]

After grooming at long-format and short-format (ick) three-days, THUMBS UP for drinking! I've known several horses who would *only* drink immediately after coming off course; if you waited 5, 10, or 15 minutes, they refused to drink. Yeah, they'd eventually drink back at the stall some hours later; but a heavy workout (like Endurance Day) can cost a horse 25-50lbs or more in fluid loss. I want to replace that loss as quickly and safely as possible (preferably avoiding IVs!). They seem to recover faster if you let them drink early, when they WANT water. :) I've never had any of the "old wives tale" problems with this... no colic, no tying up, no foundering, etc. And I've watered some VERY hot, tired horses!


Do I let a hot, gasping horse guzzle a bellyful of gallons of icy water?? No. I generally cut them off at half a bucket (~3gal) at a time; most horses don't drink more than that in one moment, anyway. This drinking bucket is also kept free of ice; it's probably cold, but not freezing. After downing half a bucket ("Good boy!"), we'll walk a lap or two, and then offer some more.


I have read some interesting studies regarding water intake and electrolyte loss. If you let said hot, thirsty horse drink electrolyte-added water, he will drink more later and balance his electrolytes faster than the horse drinking only plain water. The reasoning behind this is that the plain water slaks his thirst by diluting his existing electrolytes...which are too low. The mildly-salinated (electrolyte) water, however, continues to make him feel thirsty (from the added e-lytes) and encourages drinking throughout the recovery period. I haven't had the opportunity to try this yet, but it sounds intriguing.

[2ndyrgal]

very well said. I learned at the knee of a woman from the same era. Same thing at the race track years later, especially if you worked for one of the old timers. I still cool off a "hot horse" the same way years later. They do drink a lot more that way. And Standardbred race horses both race and train about 3 "trips", so the idea is to keep the muscles hot and blood flowing to them, but bring the respirations down to a normal level before the next "trip". Damn sure won't work if you give them all the water they want, but sips and then a good cool out, never had one tie up or colic, no matter what the weather.
Of course there are those that say you can't give a horse a bath in the winter either, but you can if you have enough wool blankets.

[Whitfield Farm Hanoverians]

I heard an interview with an MD who specialized in marathon runners care. She said that most people that collapse after/during a run actually "drown" from drinking to much H20. This is because their bodies are craving the electrolytes. That got my attention. She said that if you drink only H20 that your electrolytes are depleted to a dangerous level. She said that for every quart of H20 you drink you should also drink a quart of Gatoraid or equal. I think the same thinking applies to horses. I know that when I'm outside working & hot I feel awful if I drink only H20. Doing the 1/2 H20 the 1/2 Garoraid really keeps me going.
Living in the deep & very very hot south I've always wanted to get the horses rehydrated ASAP. I let them drink immediately. If they are suffering from heat exhaustion I think drinking ice water is great for them if they'll have it. It's a good way to lower their core temp.

[Flying Hill]

I heard an interview with an MD who specialized in marathon runners care. She said that most people that collapse after/during a run actually "drown" from drinking to much H20.

My husband almost died last year from drinking too much water without electrolytes while hiking the Appalachian Trail, but it took the hospital 5 days to figure that out. When I evented in the hot humid south during the time they were doing studies for the Atlantic Olympics, the vets would encourage us to let our horses drink up to half a bucket of water as soon as they came off cross-country, then visit the misting fans, then more water. Any horse in any sort of distress was given a tube of electrolytes.

[Whitfield Farm Hanoverians]

Thanks FH for validating that information. Then that washed out feeling I get when I only drink H20 when outside all day isn't just in my head. I do agree with trying to get as much liquid into the horse as possible as soon as possible.
Hope your hubby's okay. That kind of injury can cause long lasting kidney damage among other things.

[nuts4cowboybutts]

Whitfield, I agree with what your doctor friend told you. Too much water without electolytes can cause big problems.

A friend of mine runs marathons and has done for years. He ran one out in California when it was hot. He was trying to stay hydrated, but he collapsed. Luckily the hospital figured it out. They said he had water intoxication.

Also, I've heard that some college boys, during hazing, were made to drink a bunch of water and they died. Tragic.

I agree with giving horses water and frequent sips, but having them drink a whole bucket at a time could be risky.

[Icecapade]

I was taught in survival class to be careful of water intoxication. It happened to a woman in CA entered in radio constest had to drink a lot of water... she died, tragic case.


thats what you get for trying to make cheap money.

Anyway I digress!

Interesting stuff. We do a lot of 'rapid cool' for endurance, and rapid is relative. You generally want your horse's P/R to be down safely for the vet check but it is also a race so you want to be quick about it.

We do a lot of get off and walk... loosen the girth (whilst walking) then do the lift the saddle to get some air flow.

We do the sponge/water drill while they are drinking to physically cool the surface... ice water is never available. Water is either trucked in or straight from the hose or closest water source. So they drink and get sponged a lot at the same time.

We always do electrolyte bran mash for the hour hold (if its a 100 miler, you get two.)

I think the water issue probably comes from the ice cold deal rather than the water itself, I know when I drink after running working out, really cold water is nice, but it generally is the cool/almost room temp water I go for to pound.

But even in the best of all worlds the horse will cramp, so its not sure fire but it happens.

Anyway intersting thoughts, never seen such a systematic cool down though, very intersting! :)

[slc2]

hyponatremia. Serious and life threatening problem.

[Valentina_32926]

I live in Florida year round and there is NO WAY I would deprive my horse of water for 2 hours after a workout. When I hose her off after working I put the hose into her mouth so it's not too dry and she can get a gulp or two while continuing to cool off. After she's cool I turn her loose in pasture so she doesn't stiffen up - when she's loose she has access to room temperature (or a bit cooler since I keep it in the shade during the summer) water. I've never had ANY problems doing things this way - for over 20 years. :lol:

[canyonoak]

Offering hay to a horse that has worked long/hard enough to be low on internal water ,let alone dehydrated WITHOUT allowing the horse to regain its fluid balance...seems crazy to me and a recipe for disaster.

Suggestions about water intake depend a lot on the climate/weather and the extremes of internal heat build-up in the horse contrasted to the actual temperature of location.

[slc2]

Who said anything about depriving a horse of water for two hours after a hard workout? I don't know of anyone that does that, whether they water off or give the horse a whole bucket to drink free choice.

My horses, if very hot, get water within a few seconds of when I get off. We get some extremely severe hot, humid weather, usually very suddenly here, and they need water right away. The difference for me is that I don't allow them an unlimited amount to drink immediately. Too, I think that for very quick cooling off, drinking water isn't the most efficient means. I get the water on the surface blood vessels, where I think the cooling acts the quickest, then a breeze, fan and some shade starts cooling the entire body off very efficiently. I don't scrape them immediately, either. I want them WET. I scrape them off and wash them down again with cool water, and repeat as many times as necessary. For the same reason I want them to move about a little so they get a little bit of air movement.

I've measured. I get more water into a horse by watering off than by offering them a full bucket.

[Thomas_1]

It's absolute tosh!

[canyonoak]

zz<<--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Who said anything about depriving a horse of water for two hours after a hard workout? I don't know of anyone that does that, whether they water off or give the horse a whole bucket to drink free choice.>>


Why on earth would you think my post was addressed to you?

I was quoting the OP, who said, among other things,

" So I had a lesson recently and was told adamantly that the horse was not to drink water if they were hot for two hours after said workout... Hay only, no food or water two hours before or after. "

[slc2]

Why would you think I think your post was addressed to me? In fact, I don't think your post was addressed to me.

I think the original poster might have misunderstood the person she was talking to. No one I've ever met around horses has ever even suggested or implied a very hot horse should be deprived of water for two hours, if they did, probably best to ignore them. Grain, yes, large quantities of concentrates, yes, most people feel horses should not receive those when hot and tired. Water, no, whether a bucket full or watering off, I've never met anyone who completely denies a hot horse water. Most people allow hay, and most people allow the horse to crop grass, too. If really tired, many people at least used to, feed a sloppy bran mash to get some more fluid into the horse.

[Fixerupper]

[quote=Ambrey;3952165]If you read Black Beauty, one horse colics badly because an unknowing groom gave him water after a hard work. I had to convince my daughter that it wouldn't really happen to our horses ;)/quote]

While I'm sure Anna 'Sewell' 'meant well' - she totally missed on this one!!