Spinoff- sitting the trot with a bad back

[Ambrey]

The rolling thigh and tilting pelvis threads have been so fruitful I thought I'd see whether people have extra to add on this subject.

I am going to apply some of the stuff discussed on the pelvis thread, but does anybody have anything more to add about those of us with serious back issues and sitting the trot? I've been working on my sitting trot hard core for a couple of weeks and honestly spend most of my non-riding time feeling like I was hit by a truck.

I have an old herniation at L5/S1 and a 1 1/2 year old compression fracture/spinous process fracture at L2 so the bad back is a real issue. My horse does NOT have a big or particularly jarring trot, though. I do have a good saddle and a thinline pad.

Any words of wisdom?

[Eclectic Horseman]

I have the back from hell, and all I can tell you is that the stronger your core gets, the easier it is for the muscles to hold your back stable and protect it from injury. I do 10 mins of ab and back strengthening every morning. Then 3 times per week I workout with yoga, pilates and a targeted back/ab traditional workout for 45 mins each. You must be able to post with your abs in the sitting trot.

I read that some BNT, Carol Lavell, I think, rode in a back brace for a while. An orthopedic back brace is no substitute for strong core muscles, but it will certainly keep you sitting up straight and demonstrate the muscles that you need to strengthen!

[merrygoround]

Sounds like good advice from here. :yes:

[KBEquine]

A couple decades ago, I was riding hunters & my back hurt while in the half-seat position but did not hurt when I was sitting the trot in preparation for equitation classes.

My trainer couldn't understand it or help. I went to an orthopedic surgeon for a consultation & intentionally picked one who rode horses & explained what hurt & when. He said:

1. Without doing tests, I can tell you that your sitting trot is pretty good because if it wasn't, it would hurt, whether you've got bone involvement in the back pain or not.
2. Without doing tests, I can tell you that there is no bone involvement, because if there was, sitting the trot would be uncomfortable, no matter how good your sitting trot might be.

He addressed my poor posture by suggesting I take some dressage lessons & I fell in love, but that's not the point.

It's just one man's opinion, based on looking at me -- without doing what he characterized as 'expensive and painful tests'.

My only point is it might be helpful to ask your specialist for his/her opinion, although I also 100% agree that strengthening your core muscles can only help the situation. The question for your specialist is, "How much can it help?" and "Is there something else I should be doing?"

Best of luck getting comfy at sitting trot.

[Ambrey]

2. Without doing tests, I can tell you that there is no bone involvement, because if there was, sitting the trot would be uncomfortable, no matter how good your sitting trot might be.

This is what I'm afraid of, although the sitting trot is not aggrivating my sciatica or the neuropathy I have in my lower back so I'm hopeful I'm not beyond help :sadsmile:.

I just got back from riding and I agree that (although I feel like I've been working on it forever) I STILL need a lot of work on core strength. Seeing photos I'm quite collapsed at the sitting trot and my experiments today seem to tell me that that is worse on my back.

Big sigh.

[Icecapade]

I can't really add to terribly much since my back is still okie (knocks on fake laminate wood)

but if you are collapsing, its going to be a combo of your back and musckles, so core is 110% right and then in dance if we collapse is usually because the chest is trying to 'help' or cheat with the abs/hips... so we get it to un-cheat but keeping it busy, if it is busy it can't be cheating to help the rest of your body.

We do that be engaging the shoulder blades not arching, but just a little chest lift... so strong core to help keep aligned and just a slight lift from teh back to keep your posture up. If you aren't used to it at all, it can be a little awkward. :)

[Eclectic Horseman]

2. Without doing tests, I can tell you that there is no bone involvement, because if there was, sitting the trot would be uncomfortable, no matter how good your sitting trot might be.


Well, I'm not sure that is quite correct. I have plenty of "bone involvement" or skeletal defects with my spine. Sitting the trot is not uncomfortable while doing it correctly--but the resulting inflammation does cause pain 24/7 which I control with NSAIDS and/or epidural injections and/or radio frequency lesioning when needed. There is no question that if you have spinal instability there is going to be a lot of wear and tear which breaks down the spinal structures like discs and causes arthritic changes over time.

I highly recommend "The Rider's Pain Free Back" by James Warson, MD for riders with spine conditions.

[Arizona DQ]

We do that be engaging the shoulder blades not arching, but just a little chest lift... so strong core to help keep aligned and just a slight lift from teh back to keep your posture up. If you aren't used to it at all, it can be a little awkward. :)

I FINALLY can sit the trot and do downward transitions without hurting my back :) I feel so wonderful although I still need to work on sustaining it. What has worked for me was to remember to lean back (sit on butt rather than crotch) and really relax. (By leaning back I mean sitting up straight and opening my chest, as I have a tendency to lean forward)...I was always tensing because I knew my back would hurt..... and the tension did hurt my back as it made me too rigid! Last weekend my trainer kept telling me to sit up straight, and relax, it worked. Oh on downward transitions, I also had to ensure my mare stayed round, so her back did not sink causing me to sink lower.....

Anyway, I am sitting the trot, but if I concentrate too much, I tense up :eek: duh... so then I got back to posting a little and then can get my brain in gear and relax and sit.

I will admit that I have to work on strengthening my core (wish I knew some good exercises - hint, hint, hint :winkgrin:

Hope this helps a little!!!;)

[Ambrey]

Thank you ADQ! Yes, I tip forward and then collapse- and I think part of it is a strength issue and that part is a misguided attempt to protect my back- and I do think it's counterproductive!

Here is a photo:

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x182/estarianne/IMG_0528.jpg

As you can see, my pelvis isn't at the correct angle at all and I'm totally collapsed through the ribcage and hunched. However when I try to stretch up, the brain cells that are in charge of my poor back say "NO NO NO!"

[shmon]

It is probably both strength and flexibility issue. I was recently diagnosed with a herniated L5/S1 and, for the most part, riding didn't aggravate the condition much. Sitting the trot rarely hurt - jumping is what bothered me most (although it usually started hurting a couple hours after a lesson or show).

I've been doing PT for about a month now and although my core was pretty strong to start with, I had areas that were super tight and caused a lot of pain. My right hip actually had about 40% of the range of motion that my left did. My hamstrings also tend to be tight. When I started doing regular stretches for those areas, the residual pain decreased quite a bit. I also feel stronger and more balanced while riding. Perhaps a lot of your pain has to do with mechanics and strength and less with an actual disc/bone issue? If you have a good orthopedic or sports medicine center, try visiting a PT and getting some stretches to do at home. I am amazed at how much better I feel after doing it for a month.

[Alterageous]

You might find that sitting on a stability ball for your time sitting at home (on the computer, for example) may help strengthen the small muscles you need to stabilize yourself front to back. A good PT can also show you exercises on a ball that can help mimic the muscles used in riding, without the "impact."

I know you said your saddle is good, but to me it looks like the ultra deep seat may actually be causing you to roll your hip forward and your ribcage then rolls forward and down to compensate for the hollow in your lower back, which probably bothers you. What happens if you trot around bareback?

[Ambrey]

I know you said your saddle is good, but to me it looks like the ultra deep seat may actually be causing you to roll your hip forward and your ribcage then rolls forward and down to compensate for the hollow in your lower back, which probably bothers you. What happens if you trot around bareback?

The thing is that I'm usually not so far back in the seat. Usually there's a full 4-5 fingers between me and the edge of the cantle. I'm not sure what was up in that photo, as it's the only one that shows that, but I thought as such it was a good picture of what was "off" in my posture.

There are still so many inflexible muscles arguing with getting my pelvis properly situated on the horse that it's probably premature to blame the saddle but I'll keep my eye on it. "Perfect" for riding and comfort isn't always quite the same as "perfect" position wise, I guess (I hope it's not the saddle, I love that thing!).

[pintopiaffe]

Are you already wearing an Enell? If not, $uck it up and try one. (I know, non-returnable) but there is a degree of support and compression that they help with beyond anything else I've known. Granted, that's above your problem area... but I see your shoulders and neck in such a defensive posture... (from pain, I'm sure!)

Do you wait until you REALLY have the horse's back before you sit?

Seriously, I hate that First Level tests are done sitting. I guess if you TRULY are working two levels above at home, it's ok, but my POINT is, if you have the back, sitting is like buttah. No matter the saddle, and really, despite posture issues. It's chicken and egg--a good rider gets the back... but if you get the back FIRST, it is way, way easier to ride.

Not sure if that's making any sense. But u ntil you're working well into 3rd level, I wouldn't be sitting all that much. A few steps here and there... A short side... a demi-volte... ONLY when you have the back. Then as soon as you start to hurt/tense/tip/loose posture, POST again. Regain the back, sit a few steps.

Seems like the long way to do it, but in actuality, it's not. Before you know it a few steps is a whole short side. Then a long side. Then a 20m circle, etc.

Yesterday was the first time EVER that my disintegrating spine hurt while I was riding. It was on the way home, and it was the longest we've gone since last fall. I'm praying it's not a portent of things to come. OTHER stuff hurts, but so far, riding does not. <knocking wood madly and praying like crazy... :uhoh: >

PS: what a cutie patootie horse! I love me a good dapple grey...

[EqTrainer]

I agree w/PP. You have to really, really have their back before you should sit. I have learned how to draw their backs up underneath me and can sit them into it but really, for most people, you should never sit before the horses back is up/soft/swinging. If you begin to lose it, start posting.

Sitting at first level.. yup, I think it's so silly. Why? No good reason for it IMO.

Your minor triceps need to be stretched. See a good massuese and let them put a hurtin' on ya. OMG. You will be grateful tho' when you get back on the horse. Can't comment on the bra issues as the girls are petite but I do think about my bra strap loosening when I properly open the front of my body.

Last... wiggle your toes, please. Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle. Your leg is locked up. Literally! Get one of your kids to sit there and chant TOES TOES TOES TOES.

[Ambrey]

Last... wiggle your toes, please. Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle. Your leg is locked up. Literally! Get one of your kids to sit there and chant TOES TOES TOES TOES.

:lol: Ya think?

Thanks all for the suggestions. I do have one really good support bra, but I'm not sure whether it's the one I was wearing that day (I do always wear a sports bra). I am trying to focus on getting his back before I sit as well. It's getting better, a little bit at a time.

Sometimes it's hard to look at these photos and find the good in them, but when I think about where I was a year ago I realize that even when progress seems slow it's plugging along ;)

Thanks for the complements on my sweet boy. He makes it worth the struggle :)

[Petstorejunkie]

Sit ups are the key. I have scoliosis and some compression in L4L5. If I do notb do a serious ab workout every other day I have back pain just being human let alone a dressage rider. It took me 2 months to really get strong. Also the correct trainer can make all the difference. There are idiots everywhere willing to take money for their uneducated commentary

[Ambrey]

Yikes, sit ups are out of the question. One of the problems for me is finding ab exercises that don't make things worse.

[Beasmom]

Can you do mini-crunches? Spider crunches? Any leg lifts? Try the hip flexor exercise I described in the "thigh rolling" thread. It's very good and should not put pressure on your back. You will feel muscles in the abdomen activate as you do the exercise.

Ask your doctor or PT what exercises are safe for your condition.

I see a lot of tension in your upper body. Also ask your dr., PT, chiropractor, massage therapist, or whoever what you can do about that. Have you tried Feldenkrais or Alexander techniques?

[Ambrey]

Can you do mini-crunches? Spider crunches? Any leg lifts? Try the hip flexor exercise I described in the "thigh rolling" thread. It's very good and should not put pressure on your back. You will feel muscles in the abdomen activate as you do the exercise.

Ask your doctor or PT what exercises are safe for your condition.

I see a lot of tension in your upper body. Also ask your dr., PT, chiropractor, massage therapist, or whoever what you can do about that. Have you tried Feldenkrais or Alexander techniques?

I do leg lifts, pelvic tilts, and balance ball work. I do a LOT of hip flexor stretching and strengthening, but they started out very tight so it's a slow process. I also do a lot of ankle strengthening- my ankles were terribly weak as well.

There's actually a Feldenkreis practitioner on another board and she's given me a ton of stuff to work on, so it's all moving forward at the speed of molasses.

Every time I have someone take photos I find 20 new areas that need work. *sigh* It would be really discouraging if I wasn't noticing so much improvement in my seat and in how Smokey is going- I'm certainly not feeling any improvement in how sore I get after a hard ride!

[Coreene]

You ride with your shoulders rolled forward most of the time. Practice walking very straight up, not hunched, because you walk slouched (I mean on two legs). Walk like Tyra, shoulders back, all the time. All the time. All the time. The correct posture needs to come when you walk, automatically, all the time. Then you'll have the strength to learn to properly and effectively sit the trot.

[Ambrey]

Slouching is easier.

Just call me quasimoto.

[Coreene]

It will take practice, but it will certainly help because it will make you use those muscles constantly. All part of building your core. Probably some of it came from instinctively protecting your collarbone and has become habit. Remember, All Tyra All The Time.

[FancyFree]

Walk like Tyra, shoulders back

Thinking "I'm fierce!" right?

I was fortunate that my mother forced me into years of ballet.

Posture, posture, posture!

[Beasmom]

Slouching is easier.

Just call me quasimoto.

Then you will never be a rider.

I'm sure you were "kidding", but people are trying to help you. If you don't want to take their well-intended suggestions seriously, stop posting about your issues.

[FancyFree]

Quasimodo actually.

[Ambrey]

It will take practice, but it will certainly help because it will make you use those muscles constantly. All part of building your core. Probably some of it came from instinctively protecting your collarbone and has become habit. Remember, All Tyra All The Time.

LOL, I'll get there eventually. One day at a time. I only recently started feeling like I banished the left-right slump. Picking my ribcage up off my hipbones comes next, then I'm going to see if I can't get my shoulders off my boobs.

I lost a full inch, you know. Sigh. I will have to get 3 inches back to be Tyra!

[Coreene]

FF, I skipped the ballet part (it was so Not Dutch back in the day), but I got "Stand up straight!" over and over. And always did. We can all walk like Tyra, you've just got to work it. But Ambrey, I seriously wouldn't bother with sitting trot until you're straight and stronger, and then on the longe sans stirrups in the beginning. It will make a huge difference.

[Ambrey]

I've been doing some longing. Turns out Smokey is a good longe lesson horse... who knew?

[pharmgirl]

Another degenerating, bulging disc member here. Don't have much to add except to mention a few things you probably know but I didn't see (sorry if they were said already). Another key component to keeping your back happy is to keep your hamstrings happy. Make sure those get stretched well every day also. I also find stretches for the piriformis muscle very helpful. Ab work is great, but also remember to keep doing exercises to work the back muscles too. When my discs bulged badly the first time, I read that it's often exacerbated by uneven muscling (which I realized I had in my back just before they went on me), and once I worked my back to balance the muscle tone out on each side of my vertebrae, things improved immensely.

I used to have lots of problems sitting the trot, but it is much better now. Definitley having your horse's back is key, and I found being tall with my shoulders and almost a bit light in my seatbones (so I sit tall and can flow with the movement better) help.

[Beasmom]

Very good points, Pharmgirl.

JMHO, this is why it's important to work periodically with a physical therapist, Pilates instructor, Feldenkrais or Alexander specialist. In person, not on the internet. It was a chiropractor who diagnosed my weak right side. I thought it was simply a matter of "concentrating" more on my right side.

A professional can help you pinpoint weak spots and suggest specific stretches and exercises. Without the chiropractor's input, I'd still be struggling along with a right leg that seemed to have a mind of its own.

[Alterageous]

Alternatively, and I'm not a doctor and don't know how this would work with your back problems, but trying a "shoulders back" type device may help you also. It doesn't hold your shoulders back, but it is a physical reminder to keep them open and your body long.

I tend to do the same thing, drop my shoulder down and forward due to weakness in my lower back from a previous fracture, and wearing one of these meant I didn't have to constantly remind myself "open, open, open" in the shoulder. I wore it walking around the house and such and it helped.

[Ambrey]

Alternatively, and I'm not a doctor and don't know how this would work with your back problems, but trying a "shoulders back" type device may help you also. It doesn't hold your shoulders back, but it is a physical reminder to keep them open and your body long.

I tend to do the same thing, drop my shoulder down and forward due to weakness in my lower back from a previous fracture, and wearing one of these meant I didn't have to constantly remind myself "open, open, open" in the shoulder. I wore it walking around the house and such and it helped.

Thanks, I've been thinking seriously about getting one. The problem is that the fractured area is far from pain free on the best of days and, as you said, the instinct is to kind of curl around the sensitive area and protect it. Hard to fight! Plus I broke my left scapula and clavicle, so I really did develop a hunch that makes my previous posture (which was never great) look fabulous ;)

I do have a Professional's Choice back brace, which really makes no difference except in my state of mind, LOL!

I really appreciate everyone's input. I also got a PM from Medical Mike (thanks!). I'm finding that there's just no easy solution and I need to keep plugging away at my strength and just bear it as well as I can!

[Ambrey]

I used to have lots of problems sitting the trot, but it is much better now. Definitley having your horse's back is key, and I found being tall with my shoulders and almost a bit light in my seatbones (so I sit tall and can flow with the movement better) help.

Thank you, I'll try that! I've been trying to be loose with my lower back and absorb the shock, but that goes so far against my instinct to tense up and protect my back that the second I take my mind off of it I'm tense again!

Luckily, although keeping his back while I'm that tense is kind of a lot to expect of him, he is really happy to give me a slow and easy trot to practice with (I'm not even trying to sit a working trot right now). It's really easy to sit, the issue here is all me.

[pharmgirl]

Sounds like we have more issues in common than I thought! :) Mine wasn't a scapula and clavicle, but my left humerus just below the head, and I def. tend to drop that shoulder down and in. Doesn't help that I had that issue with both shoulders pre-shoulder injury! I did find that cocentrating on being tall nd light in my upper body helped me divert the focus from my lower back. Still a work in progress (well, not so much at this moment since I am now laid up rehabbing a broken right elbow-don't ask ;)), but it is nice since there was a time where I thought I might never really sit the trot again.

Oh, and both my husband and I have had shoulder injuries. It's been several years and it's still the only body part that we are still a bit protective over (and cringe whenever we see someone else injure one)! Something about shoulders I guess.

[Ambrey]

I don't know, I think shoulders just HURT a lot! Everyone at the ER was pretty sure I was blowing my injuries out of proportion until they found out about the scapula, then they were almost willing to admit me just for pain control.

There were also 3 ribs. Yeah, I did a number on myself ;) Seriously though other than the muscle weakness, the back is the only thing that still bothers me.

Always good to find "partners in pain," especially ones who have made it through to the other side!

Hope your elbow heals up quickly!

[Arizona DQ]

You ride with your shoulders rolled forward most of the time. Practice walking very straight up, not hunched, because you walk slouched (I mean on two legs). Walk like Tyra, shoulders back, all the time. All the time. All the time. The correct posture needs to come when you walk, automatically, all the time. Then you'll have the strength to learn to properly and effectively sit the trot.

Absolutely! Good posture on and off the horse is so important! I know alot of us tend to slouch and roll our shoulders in and forward.:no: My trainer, bless her heart, has finally gotten me to open my chest (shoulders) and sit up straight (oh why did I not listen to my mother better?)...

Someone else said the sit the trot but as soon as you feel yourself getting tense or out of whack with your horse, to pick up the rising trot again! Exactly what I was taught to do. My trainer also says that it is alright to have a little bit slower trot as I continue to learn, not a western jog but just a tad slower than a normal working trot....

Picture the awesome higher level riders as they ride the extended trot across the diagonal and how they are sitting that awesome movement.:winkgrin: of course I am not sitting as well as they do :no: and my mare is not even close to extending, but I have that picture in my mind as we trot. It works for me!:D

[Icecapade]

Get thee to a dance studio!!! :D

I would suggest ballet, or if you can't stomach the formal, go to a bellydancer. They will teach you posture and how to hold your stomach, back chest! ;)


That being said... I usually have fab ab stuff but my roommate gave me some great stuff last night for sure!

First is a dance one that killed me first time.

lie on your back
lift your legs perpendicular
feet FLEXEd (not pointed up) (you should be looking at your toes)

No without pumping your legs back and forth from your lower abs, push your heels to the ceiling. This should be difficult. If you can get someone to stand next to you and have an arm on either side of your legs to prevent swinging that will help... and/or someone to say push here, with your heel. So your heels go straight up and it will only be but a half an inch to maybe two if your good.

The best one my roommate gave me was a swedish ball one.
Kneel with ball in front of you.
Roll out over the ball till you are fully extended with your feet on the ball.
One push up.
Roll all the way back over the ball till you are holding it.
Again roll out.
You pyramide your push ups, so roll out do 2, come back roll out do 3 etc up to 5, then go back down, 4, 3, 2, 1.

That was fabulous.

Plank, front side and side( on your side your free arm should be straight up in the air: starting at 30 seconds, work your way up to a minute holding.

Front leaning rest: hold (i.e. get in push up position but do no push ups, just hold yourself up.

:D insert wicked smiley, my BF HATES my ab workouts!!! =)

[pharmgirl]

Yup, my orthos said shoulders def. the most painful and DH and I agree! (he's also had ACL reconstruction and some other non-ortho issues)

What surprised me was through my shoulder rehab, my PT didn't give me much to work on for my back muscles on that side. I think if I worked on those before my discs bulged, I might not have known for some time that I had degenerating discs (didn't have back problems prior to the shoulder injury).

Thanks re: elbow. I am only day 19 post-op, and did a real number on it, so I'm guessing this will be a long one. At least there's progress and I have COTH :)

[Ambrey]

Someone else said the sit the trot but as soon as you feel yourself getting tense or out of whack with your horse, to pick up the rising trot again! Exactly what I was taught to do. My trainer also says that it is alright to have a little bit slower trot as I continue to learn, not a western jog but just a tad slower than a normal working trot....


Yep, this is what I do... although my trainer encourages me to push myself just a little past my comfort zone. And switching from rising to sitting is also a great abdominal workout!

[Ambrey]

Oh, Icecapade. You sound so wonderfully young, and strong, and flexible. Actually, can I borrow your body just for a week?

Pretty please?

[Icecapade]

Oh, Icecapade. You sound so wonderfully young, and strong, and flexible. Actually, can I borrow your body just for a week?

Pretty please?

HA HA HA...

I'm young (considering) and not so flexible, and not so strong, I make it a point to dance at least 6-8 hours a week though... and I suck. I try to ride at least three times a week but well I suck and I drive up to 2 hours to get to my horse during the work week so its not ideal.... lol


But my body is breaking but you can borrow it! lol it isn't so much as all those things put together its just doing something a little at a time. I'm trying to get my abs back as I let them go (despite my dancing, where I have been practicing one thing horribly wrong apparently!!!)

My roommate just got back from her deployment and she is jacked as hell... plus a fubared back. so together we are trying to bring the ab work back in... its baby steps just like anything else.

Consider your body like your riding. A work of art, and art takes time to create, it will never be perfect but merely flowing from one flawed state to the next recognizing the beauty of the journey and the achievement of one tiny ideal moment.

You will get there =) Embrace you for all you are worth and limitations and make the most of it. Shit thats what dressage is... make the most of what you have, train to make it better to create art!

[AnotherRound]

The rolling thigh and tilting pelvis threads have been so fruitful I thought I'd see whether people have extra to add on this subject.

I am going to apply some of the stuff discussed on the pelvis thread, but does anybody have anything more to add about those of us with serious back issues and sitting the trot? I've been working on my sitting trot hard core for a couple of weeks and honestly spend most of my non-riding time feeling like I was hit by a truck.

I have an old herniation at L5/S1 and a 1 1/2 year old compression fracture/spinous process fracture at L2 so the bad back is a real issue. My horse does NOT have a big or particularly jarring trot, though. I do have a good saddle and a thinline pad.

Any words of wisdom?
You've gotten some good advice on this thread about your issues. You may not realize, though, how you keep raising excuses for either not being able to, or just not doing, the suggestion.

If you really want to get stronger, you have to work at it and work hard. No excuses, no discussion about how to avoid the pain. You have to strengthen your core. Its not a phrase or an idea, its a necessity. Not having a strong core, you have little concept of how capable you will be when you begin to get strong there. Your core is your abdomen, and your back, like a band around your lower torso. It extends deep inside to your solar plexus and up your spine to your neck. You have to do 3 reps of 30 each of 5 ot 7 exercises a day, meaning 6 days a week, to start to see some change in 2 or 3 weeks, and they won't be on a horse:

1 - anytime, sitting, driving, at thecomputer, tighten your abdomen and envision bringing your stomach back to touch your spine. Hold count of 5, repeat. 3 reps of 30. Do it all day long, 6, 7, 8 times a day.

2 - When you walk imagine a string attaching the back of your head to the ceiling. This will tilt your chin down and lengthen your spine like a ballet dancer. Drop your shoulders. Lengthen your neck. Drop your shoulders. Did I say drop your shoulders? You are raising your shoulders up, and you probably do it walking around too. Do it over and over. It will hurt, but not forever. Drop your shoulders. Sting to the ceiling. Lengthen your neck.

3 - Walk, stand and sit shoulders back sticking your tits out.

4. - walk and RIDE with your hips tucked under you, your butt pushed before you, your pelvis rolled under you, however you envision it, but walk that way, too. no sway back. When you are walking think, lead with your hips - as though they were pointed, they would hit the wall first. Imagaine a runway model striding, hips first. This straightens your back, no sway, and you begin to put your weight distributed evenly throughout your spine and onto your abdoment and hips. This is the key to getting your seat engaged riding too. It puts your spine right over your hips.

5 - balance ball - set at the small of your back gainst the wall and roll down to a 90 degree angle chair seat and roll up again. Hands straight out in front of you. This is great for your upper leg and lower torso. 3 reps of 30, no cheating. In three weeks, grip small weights.

6 - balance ball = lying back, hands behind you, sit ups, legs in a chair separated for stability. Lie back and sit up. At first you will only be able to do 10. Increase to 30.

7 - balance ball - on your somach, ball at your pelvis, hands like superman, go down to the ground then up and arch like superman. Feet stablizing behind you. Vary this with raising an oposite arm and leg, using the others to support you. Very hard at first, just getting the balance activates your core.

9. - On the mat, Plank. get into a push up position, but you don't need to do the pushe up. straighten your spine, so that you are straight as a board, up on your straight arms, stiff, do no sag in the butt, do not rais the butt up, and just hold this. Isometric core.

10 - low plank - on your elbows, same thing, straight spine, resting on your toes, no sag, hold, count to 5, increase to 10, do this 3 times, then increase eventually. breath.

Every exercise, give yourself a number to do, then go beyond and do FIVE more.

These are just basic core strentheners you need to do every single day and you can do thises with old spine injuries. It will hurt, but you have to do them anyway. If you really want to get strong, get a gym membership and use some equipment.

If you aren't doing this or something similar every day as basics, you aren't increasing your core strenth

If I were you, I would inlude some shoulder presses and weights (5 pounds to start) for your upper arms.

I have to comment on your stirrups -why are they so long? Your toes are pointed down reaching for your stirrups, and don't say your heel was up to nudge the horse, it should not be nudging the horse, and your stirrups are way too long. If your stirrups were shorter, you could bring your leg back under your hip and use your whole body to stablize yourself and relieve the agony on your back, but as it is, you have no leg, and you are sitting in a chair seat behind your leg. That is partially why it looks like you are coming over the cantle. Also, the saddle is too small. You don't have any room behind you. It is too deep a seat, and also, if you had 4 or 5 fingers behind you the saddle would be way too big. This particular saddle is too small for you.

You may find with a proper saddle you don't have many of the problems you do.

And please don't continue laughing and making excuses or giving out reasons for not doing what people suggest. Every post here suggests things which would improve your riding. If you do them. And to every post you laugh and explain why you can't or that you don't want to.

If you need to vary these a little for your injuries, do so, but work up to doing them as above. For example, with the lower plank, if you can't hold it straightened out, get down on the mat like a little doggie, on your knees and elbows, arms straight like a sphynx, and straighten out, raise your knees off the mat, get real straight, then go down with your knees againto the mat. Eventually start holding the plank position when you get there. Same with the high plank, only opposite: arms straight on the mat, legs straight behind you, raise up butt inthe air to rest, or, go down to your hips to rest, arms still straight, arch back and look at the ceiling, straighten out to plank again. Figure it out, but do it, 10 reps, 20, reps, 30 reps.

Edited to add - The greatest thing you could do would be to do Yoga (see if you can find a Hot Yoga class) 2 or 3 times a week, and these exercises on the other days. You'd be hard as iron in two months and its easy to accomodate your injuries during a class, if you have the right teacher. Mine can always find an accomodation for a injury which still encompases the pose

[Nojacketrequired]

I certainly understand that you want to work on your strength in order to help with your injuries, but I'd think you would want to drop back a little from where you were previously, in order to do that.

From the picture, you are riding in a double (?) so I'm assuming you were at least 3rd level....But if you are having trouble doing basic trot work, you may want to drop your horse back to the snaffle at the same time?

The curb seems tight, so perhaps he needs the double to be manageable? If so, then you may want to look into a quieter horse for your rehab, for best results. Being nervous about the horse won't help anything, it'll just make you tense up more.

Also, having a horse on a tight-ish curb and doing a tiny trot isn't going to help him to retain his level of fitness either.

Perhaps another person to keep him forward while you are getting better?

NJR

[STF]

After being diagnosed with A.S in my lower back, I started Yoga and I swear, its REALLY helped.
I dont like pain meds, they make me sick to my stomach and I dont want to have to use them being only mid 30s all the time.
But really, the Yoga, stetch and massage works helps a ton.

[Coreene]

It is not a double, it is a pelham. And I agree about the stirrups, I neglected to mention that yesterday. They are way too long, which is not going to help you at all. Try bringing them up two holes at least and see what a huge difference that will make. When you are on the longe, ride with a whip behind your back, holding your arms back. That way you can concentrate on your seat and body and not worry about what your hand are doing, and it will force you to straighten out.

Of course, it will hurt like a mother the first few times when you are done, but it will absolutely be worth it.

Edited to say, use a balance ball instead of a chair when you're at the computer. FABULOUS for working on posture. :yes:

[AnotherRound]

I certainly understand that you want to work on your strength in order to help with your injuries, but I'd think you would want to drop back a little from where you were previously, in order to do that.

From the picture, you are riding in a double (?) so I'm assuming you were at least 3rd level....But if you are having trouble doing basic trot work, you may want to drop your horse back to the snaffle at the same time?

The curb seems tight, so perhaps he needs the double to be manageable? If so, then you may want to look into a quieter horse for your rehab, for best results. Being nervous about the horse won't help anything, it'll just make you tense up more.

Also, having a horse on a tight-ish curb and doing a tiny trot isn't going to help him to retain his level of fitness either.

Perhaps another person to keep him forward while you are getting better?

NJR

No, Ambrey has explained that she is a beginning rider, but she often talks about advanced topics she is not actually capable of herself. She is actually using a pelham, and yes, she has the curb tightened up until the horse is curling under. She should be using a snaffle, but she is tense and anxious (according to her posts in the past) about the horse taking off with her. I think she might do well on a longe line to develope her seat, as I think you are rights, there is an element of tenseness and worry about control you can see even in the picture, which might be distracting to her learning her seat.

[cyberbay]

Just be aware that not all exercises are good for the back. My chiro says he treats a lot of active Yoga and Pilates people...

And, sorry to other posters, but good posture comes from alignment, and not necessarily pushing or pulling a single body part here and there. So, when you feel something out of whack in your posture, say, your shoulders are rounding forward, for example, there is a good chance it's because you are thrusting your chin forward, or thrusting your hips forward (and your shoulders are trying to catch up). So, take a moment and re-align yourself, using a mirror to help you get there and to learn the correct feeling. Also, shoulders naturally relax when alignment is correct.

Also, habitually tight muscles will make correction difficult, b/c they will just pull on your skeleton. You can deep-massage your upper-chest muscles yourself to loosen them, same with hip area, and upper legs. That makes a huge difference, more than plain stretching may make.

For your hips, think of your seat bones pointing straight down. Do this for your own posture all the time and while in the saddle. I find that that helps a lot with alignment. To stretch the tummy muscles, which when tight can pull hard on the back structures, place hand on SI joints, and arc backward, holding each stretch for 10 sec. Do 10 reps several times a day. Don't let head fall back too much and don't create arc by pushing hips forward.

Pretty much all the time, tighten just a little bit the muscles around your navel and do the same with your glutes (rump muscles). Engaged like this, they support the spine. And you'll be surprised at how easy it is to stabilize your upper body by doing this.

(And I didn't think you were being rude to people who gave you suggestions...)

[AnotherRound]

Wow, those are really good stretch suggestions, and they do help alot. I keep forgetting about stretching, but when I do like you said shoulders drop, my back lengthens, everything loosens so the body aligns.

[Speedy]

What works wonders for me:

Pilates - the reformer, NOT the mat

Swimming - 1 mile, 4 times/week

Getting bucked off - seriously, I do not wish it on anyone, but I have the most amazing natural adjustments, which last a week or more, each time my young horse bucks me off - fortunately, or unfortunately, depending on how you look at this, the frequency of these incidents is decreasing

Less is more - I do not sit the trot very often at all, but when I do, it is key to do it only in short bursts and to stay supple through my hips on down

[mp]

Ambrey, I'm an older rider (nearer 60 than 50) and learning to ride correctly has been a struggle for me, too. Injuries + age = sloooooow progress. You can do it, but you can't skip stages. You have to work through them. It makes no more sense for YOU to take shortcuts in your riding than it does to rush your horse's training.

If I were you, I wouldn't worry about sitting the trot for right now. Just concentrate on building your core strength and sitting UP (open chest), when you ride. As you gain strength, your seat will become more secure, allowing your hands to become independent.

Until you have those things in place, you can't sit the trot because there won't be any place for you to sit -- your horse can't give his back until you can give him your seat. It's all interrelated, so take your time and do it right. And lengthen those stirrups. You're reaching for them with your toes.

[pharmgirl]

Good point, mp. For a long time (perhaps years, even) I really didn't even think about sitting the trot because it just hurt. Then, one day as I was working on something I started sitting the trot and now I just don't seem to have a real issue with it anymore. Granted, I'm not doing it the entire ride but now it's not really an issue how long I can do it when I want to. It probably just took a long time for everything to come back for me to be comfortable.

Ambrey, I'm an older rider (nearer 60 than 50) and learning to ride correctly has been a struggle for me, too. Injuries + age = sloooooow progress. You can do it, but you can't skip stages. You have to work through them. It makes no more sense for YOU to take shortcuts in your riding than it does to rush your horse's training.

If I were you, I wouldn't worry about sitting the trot for right now. Just concentrate on building your core strength and sitting UP (open chest), when you ride. As you gain strength, your seat will become more secure, allowing your hands to become independent.

Until you have those things in place, you can't sit the trot because there won't be any place for you to sit -- your horse can't give his back until you can give him your seat. It's all interrelated, so take your time and do it right. And lengthen those stirrups. You're reaching for them with your toes.

[Mozart]

After being diagnosed with A.S in my lower back, I started Yoga and I swear, its REALLY helped.
I dont like pain meds, they make me sick to my stomach and I dont want to have to use them being only mid 30s all the time.
But really, the Yoga, stetch and massage works helps a ton.

Ditto, ditto, ditto. Due to a number of "unscheduled dismounts" in my reckless youth, one that involved snapping off a couple of spinal processes I have "instability of the lower back".

I started doing yoga 2x week and I have started treating myself like a horse. IOW, I get the treatment I need. In the last year I have seen athletic therapists, physiotherapists and massage therapists. With every bit of core strenth gained, every bit of increased hip flexion I have seen an improvement in my posture and my riding.

My yoga teacher is fanatic about protecting her students' joints as she turned to yoga to manage back pain. I'm serious, find a certified yoga teacher who KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE DOING, (not some young hottie at the gym who learned a few asanas) tell them you have a bad back and give it some time.

I started practicing yoga last fall, it is just about the best decision I have ever made. I wish I could do it every day. Even from a mental health p.o.v., I cannot say enough about it. I do think that you can do more damage than good with a yahoo teacher, getting someone who will protect your back is crucial.

[Ambrey]

Good point, mp. For a long time (perhaps years, even) I really didn't even think about sittind the trot. Then, one day as I was working on something I started sitting the trot and now I just don't seem to have a real issue with it anymore. Granted, Im not doing it the entire ride but now it's not really an issue how long I can do it when I want to. It probably just took a long time for everything to come back for me to be comfortable.

This is where I am now- feeling very comfortable at rising trot and starting to sit some. My original question was asking whether there are specific things I can do to make it easier on my back, as I am having a lot of trouble relaxing at all due to my back issues.

And I thank all of those who gave me advice on that question.

[Icecapade]

Just be aware that not all exercises are good for the back. My chiro says he treats a lot of active Yoga and Pilates people...

And, sorry to other posters, but good posture comes from alignment, and not necessarily pushing or pulling a single body part here and there.

Also, habitually tight muscles will make correction difficult, b/c they will just pull on your skeleton. You can deep-massage your upper-chest muscles yourself to loosen them, same with hip area, and upper legs. That makes a huge difference, more than plain stretching may make.



This is interesting as you use a chiro guy. I have this discussion frequently with my horse's massage therapist and my BF who has a wonky back and uses a chiro.

It seems very chicken and egg is when you start to think about it but its really not.

Do your bones hold things or your muscles? If you are a bone person you are probably more inclined to use a chiro. If you are a muscle person you are more likely to use a massage therapist.

The theory is that you can align the bones. Or you can get your muscles trained to hold the bones where they need to be. So to me if a yoga/pilates person is using a chiro then something is off because your muscles should be on their way to learning how to properly carry themselves and you shouldn't have an issue, or rather as *many* issues.

You are correct just moving one body part won't do it... moving it and holding it there and retraining the muscles will. Having it cranked back into place bi weekly probably won't do it either though. I personally am a fan of muscles move bones... so strengthen and teach what needs to be moved to hold your frame in the proper alignment.

But I'm no doctor... thats just what I have read and study from actual physical therapist peeps. =)

[mp]

This is where I am now- feeling very comfortable at rising trot and starting to sit some. My original question was asking whether there are specific things I can do to make it easier on my back, as I am having a lot of trouble relaxing at all due to my back issues.

And I thank all of those who gave me advice on that question.

Not trying to rain on your parade, but here's a question based on my own experience:

Can you do a smooth transition from a canter to a trot? If not, no matter how comfy you are posting, you're probably not ready to sit the trot.

[Ambrey]

Canter to trot transitions aren't a problem- should they be?

[mp]

They aren't if you can do them. That was the point of the question.

[goeslikestink]

This is where I am now- feeling very comfortable at rising trot and starting to sit some. My original question was asking whether there are specific things I can do to make it easier on my back, as I am having a lot of trouble relaxing at all due to my back issues.

And I thank all of those who gave me advice on that question.

ambrey you cant keep making excuses for poor position
which should have been dealt with in very 1st lesson of riding

look here on how to alter your stirrups to the correct lenght of which i have told you time and time and time again
http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=178116

if you do not have the correct stirrup lenght it will effect your position
chin up and frust the bust its not blooming hard -----

if you slouch as you tend to like slouching then you arnt going to be able to ride your horse and you will always look like a sack of spuds as you slouch the scholder drops and the horse falls in or out whatever - as you grip like no tomorrrow becuase you slouch the horse has the avantage as you tend to lean and are heavy in the hands so lean over the horse whichs support your body weight to keep you in the saddle via your hands via his head - the horse pulls as you keep jabing him in the mouth he has no other way to tell you hes hurting and uncomfy but you not listening to him but your so un -balanced you think hes pulling you out of the saddle so you put him in a pelham and grip so hard -- your horse will end up with a mouth like iron all because of your hands - ad your body
and your saddle is to small again throws you forward and over his head so its balance is out of zinc so to correct himself he has to pull becuase your making him pull
stop buying saddles of ebay - and buy one that fits him and fits you by a proper saddle fitter a mastercraftmen
then go home and pratice the exercise of walking - properly down a corridor or passage with a broom handle behind your back for 2mins then 5 then 10 then 20
then walk up any stairs on tip toe - get used to working your toes and calf mussles

its old fasion elequesion lesson of how to stand and walk striaght - you either want to glide down a road or you want to slob it down a road as that what slouching is , it stooping and not walking high with chin up bust out and schoulders back so hips move forwards as glide
lets say you either want to look good or you dont


then this will make you sit up and then all you have to do is sit in your saddle having hands at pomel position -then to sit trot its a gentle movement as in hold a tube of toothpaste between bum and saddle to rise its a sit squirt not a sit and blast
having the correct stirrupp lenght means you will distribute your weight evenly down you back and into your ankles your stirrups should be on the balls of your feet and not back at the heal of your boot this is very dangerous thing to do as if you fall you will be dragged
if you cant turn toes in dont worry but at least have them point straight and forwards

legs are off all the way up your inner thighs if your feet are like peguins/ or open newspaper which means you have no direction to give to the horse and thus have not sticky bum glue if the horse should put his head down -- you will go over the top if he drops his schoulder becuase your slouching you will eventually go over the top either side you drop your schoulders the horse drops his ie falls in and you will fall off

so you either sort your position out and do baisc remedy and want to ride
or you dont and will say what ever your doing dont blame the horse as its you that telling him to do what he does your asking with one thing ie and stopping him with another so horse is confused

also stop quoting on advanced stuff when you clearly cant apply it
your a beignner rider as in a novice novice -- just becuase you think you can wtc its not its the horse being polite with you about time you should be polite back and let him have his head and stop
hurting his mouth by being heavy in the hands - the horse wouldnt play up as much if you was light in the hands and learn how to ride with an independant seat and secure leg

also empty everyones wheel barrows this will give you upper body strenght dont take little tiny weany ones but full wheel barrows it wil help you to tone your body to

[AnotherRound]

Canter to trot transitions aren't a problem- should they be?

Yes, they are without a core, and with a core, they require a different set of skill than what you demonstrate in your pic, such as having your leg under you, your upper body in line and not hauling on the horse's curb rein. But you sit down and stay down in order to transition down. You use your seat and back entirely to bring the horse back. You need to be able to do this without reins, in general, but with reins, you transisiton down by sitting deep into the horse and pushing him into the bit, using your seat AND your leg on him, which you don't have in your pic, your leg isn't there for you, rather than hauling back on him (as you are doing in the pic, I realize that isn't a transition pic, but you are hanging on his mouth and he is evading the bit by curling around it). Transisitions require core and upper body strength, the kind you develop doing the work I outlined in my previous post, and to remain still and pull down and back with your seat but not your hands. Are you able to do that? Last I heard you had not yet been cantering, so a Canter to trot transisition is not really something you would be working on, is it?

[Ambrey]

They aren't if you can do them. That was the point of the question.

Sorry, I just think going into whether I'm ready for the sitting trot would take more detail than I'm really willing to divulge :) Luckily I have professionals helping me make those decisions!

[goeslikestink]

Sorry, I just think going into whether I'm ready for the sitting trot would take more detail than I'm really willing to divulge :) Luckily I have professionals helping me make those decisions!

what you cant make your own decissons-- your an adult
ambrey all you have to do is think what your doing if your tense and hanging on his head it will make him tense and more likely to do things becuase you told him
tense is stiff as cardbaord -- not floppy and light
in a horse mind - if you stiff or tense as in gripping be legs or heavy in hands your telling him to go
if you have fear in your mind you r telling him to go sub conciously
so you need to relax ---

try shaking yourself free ie loosen up your body before you get on
sjake your arms and your legs then think that saddle as armchair and relaxed into it ,

[MidlifeCrisis]

Sorry, I just think going into whether I'm ready for the sitting trot would take more detail than I'm really willing to divulge :) Luckily I have professionals helping me make those decisions!

If you have professionals helping you make those decisions, why are you coming on this BB asking for advice, ignoring or arguing with what advice is offered, and wasting the bandwidth? Everything in your picture showed that you're not ready to sit the trot. Now the picture is deleted but it showed a tense rider balancing off of her poor horse's mouth. And a pelham to boot. There is no shame in being a beginning rider. Why are you so anxious to learn to sit the trot? There's a 1000 more things that you should be working on. It's time for me to put you on "ignore."

[AnotherRound]

Sorry, I just think going into whether I'm ready for the sitting trot would take more detail than I'm really willing to divulge :) Luckily I have professionals helping me make those decisions!

MP, Ambrey has often said that she doesn't canter yet. She has until recently been working at the walk, and at lateral movements, and recently begun trotting again. There's nothing wrong with that, its a long transisiton from hospital to horseback again. But Ambrey, I have to ask you, then why did you start this thread if you aren't willing to discuss your sitting trot? You've been addressing improving your sitting trot throughout the thread, its all about your sitting trot, not debating whether you are ready for the sitting trot. We have assumed you and your trainer think you are, and are working on it. MP's comment was correct, its the kind of movement you have to be able to do well if you are going to be able to maintain a sitting trot. It requires the skills everyone has been addressing for you in this thread. As you requested.

You've been getting good advice. Don't you want to know what you need to do to be able to accomplish sitting trot? The downward transistions from canter to trot are using the same principals as sitting trot, so they were brought up to better inform the poster about what you are and arne't capable of. Do you canter? You said recently that you don't, so your comment that such transitions are no problem for you is odd. It doesn't matter whether you do or not, its just that its hard to follow your reasoning or logic because it is so changeable, and your description of your experiences are so fluid from one thread to the next. Its hard to advise someone on their question if they first need suggestions, then dismiss the advice, then excuse themselves from why they wont or can't do the advice, then describe their level of comfort being trotting and sitting trot, then declare that the have no problem with downward transitions from canter to trot. An interesting discussion would be about your downward transisiton from rising trot to walk. This takes the core you need for sitting trot, and it requires the leg to be under you and for you to use your seat and leg during the downward transition to maintain impulsion into the walk, through the bit. All these things require core, which you don't have, but will soon have, I am certain! Dont' be defensive or evade the bit! Bite right in and take hold and learn!

Do your work, Ambrey, as we all do, to improve, since you initially let the community know that that's what you want, is to improve to be able to sit the trot. Let us know what you are doing and how you are improving!! Post again sometime and ask for help again as you improve your strength and you begin to see how that informs your riding.

[Nojacketrequired]

I just have to ask, why are you using a pelham? Did you mean to put this in the h/j forum?

If a person requires a pelham and a tight curb, then perhaps they are getting ahead of themselves with the concern about the sitting trot?

If it is better for your back (and it is definitely better for the horse's back if he is being kept in this tiny trot to accomodate you), then just spend time working on a nice, relaxed posting trot using only the snaffle. Why the push to sit, when you aren't ready for it physically? Working on your posting trot will help your core muscles so that gradually you'll be able to sit for longer periods of time.

As a past back-pain sufferer, in order to help your back pain, you have to be able to loosen and warm those muscles involved that have seized up around the injury, in order to do them any good. Robaxicet was fantastic for me, then about 20 minutes of a strong walk to let me muscles roll and relax before beginning a forward, posting trot. No need to punish already sore areas with sitting at this point, IMO. Imagine the stress your discs are put under each and every time you jar your back. Yes, muscle strengthening will help, but those tissues still likely have a lot of repairing to do, which may be being torn down by your efforts to sit, currently.

NJR

[AnotherRound]

Excelent advice from start to finish, NoJacket.

[Ambrey]

As a past back-pain sufferer, in order to help your back pain, you have to be able to loosen and warm those muscles involved that have seized up around the injury, in order to do them any good. Robaxicet was fantastic for me, then about 20 minutes of a strong walk to let me muscles roll and relax before beginning a forward, posting trot. No need to punish already sore areas with sitting at this point, IMO. Imagine the stress your discs are put under each and every time you jar your back. Yes, muscle strengthening will help, but those tissues still likely have a lot of repairing to do, which may be being torn down by your efforts to sit, currently.


It has already been 1 1/2 years, it is getting past the point where I can expect further healing. So this is what I have to work with, waiting it out isn't going to get me anywhere. The funny thing is that, as I said earlier, sitting doesn't seem to aggravate the nerve pain (sciatica/neuropathy) but it does make my muscles very sore!

I'd be concerned about using a muscle relaxer before riding, since my back does need the support of all of my core muscles. You didn't notice any problems? It's something I could ask about.

[AnotherRound]

Well, I don't have pain issues where I am using opiates, so I do not know for certain, but I would have to agree. Ambry, before you go back to muscle relaxers (I thought you had worked pretty hard to get off those a while ago? Maybe that's not true, I forget...) I would really try to start up a strengthening regimine like so many have suggested here. You need to do good stretching before getting on, please do yoga, and the core muscle exercieses. If THEN you still have problems, after you've been getting stronger for a few months, then talk to your doctor about meds, but with all your extra health issues, wouldn't you like to be able to manage your pain without extra meds? I am sure you can, but you have no knowledge of that until you actually get strong. And you won't be able to ride until you get strong either, so its a win win. Start it up, do the work.

[Beasmom]

1 and 1/2 years. I'm no doctor, but at this point, things are probably as good as they're going to get. It's time to get strong, painful though that may be. Strengthening will help your posture, flexibility, stamina and more. So your muscles hurt? That's part of it. Why do they hurt? Are you gripping, tighter than you need to be? In your photo, your posture is a big problem. If you are trying to ride and don't have all your parts stacked neatly one above the other (Centered Riding), you are fighting to maintain balance with every step, and it gets worse at trot or canter. Get your position aligned properly so that maintaining balance is easy. THEN you have some hope of sitting the trot. With your shoulders rolled forward, head sticking forward of that, and reaching for your stirrups, you haven't a chance in Hell.

Shorten your stirrups first. Sit your horse like the Queen of England. Consult with health/sports/therapy professionals. Ride in a snaffle. Remember the KISS principle!

Get going. You will experience pain. You will experience soreness. It's part of riding, if you want to do it right. As Mary Wanless likes to say, "Pain is your friend".

[mp]

Sorry, I just think going into whether I'm ready for the sitting trot would take more detail than I'm really willing to divulge :) Luckily I have professionals helping me make those decisions!

Sorry for asking about canter transitions. I had no idea it was a sore point.

Good luck with your riding.

[Ambrey]

Sorry for asking about canter transitions. I had no idea it was a sore point.


Not at all. Just that a description of my back pain and one photo meant to graphically illustrate a problem I'm having at sitting trot aren't really sufficient to do a proper riding critique, and since I've recently had a really thorough photographic critique done by a pro I'm not really looking for that here. Thanks anyway, though :)

[Beasmom]

So what DOES Jane say about your sitting trot situation?

[Kaeleer]

Ambrey, I understand about back issues and sitting the trot (and, on my TB, sitting the canter, even!) It's hellish difficult, but the problem is not, I suspect, my bad back, but my appalling posture.

I am slump-shouldered (more so now, following a few surgeries to my right shoulder and some muscle wastage in that area), and I tend to round my lower back as well.

The only way to deal with these exercises is work. I go to gym regularly and do core muscle classes. Between half an hour and 1.5 hours each time, at least three times a week. At home, I use a balance ball instead of a computer chair, and am aware of my posture when at the computer.

I also RIDE every day. Sometimes two horses a day. I do not do sitting trot with any regularity yet, because my WB has just turned five and I don't believe his back is strong enough (I still lighten my seat in upward transitions to and downward transitions from canter, because of that, so I'm not going to subject him to sitting trot). I am starting to introduce some sitting trot work, in lessons, but we do five strides at a time and back to rising.

Of course, it is EASIER when I have his back, and yesterday, in my dressage lesson, we did a longish session of sitting trot, incorporating SI and LY, and I found that I could not only "sit" the trot, I could also use my seat as an aid, usually something which is beyond me because I'm too unbalanced to do anything other than try to stay there.

What I'm saying is that sitting trot might be your goal, but you'll never achieve it with a quick fix. You get there through work, determination, and constant application of correct riding principles. If your leg isn't underneath you, it won't work, if your spine isn't straight, it won't work, if your arms are tense, it won't work, if your core isn't strong, it won't work.

Instead of focusing on the goal, focus on what it is that is inhibiting you reaching it.

From the picture you posted, there are quite major hurdles in your path - posture, arms, saddle too small, core too weak, stirrups too long, legs in wrong place - work on these, and the rest will come.

[AnotherRound]

Not at all. Just that a description of my back pain and one photo meant to graphically illustrate a problem I'm having at sitting trot aren't really sufficient to do a proper riding critique, and since I've recently had a really thorough photographic critique done by a pro I'm not really looking for that here. Thanks anyway, though :)

No one's doing a proper riding critique. this is conversation about your question, what do I do to work on the sitting trot. That's all this is. Your picutre isn't of a sitting trot, so I have to assume you wanted us to make these comments based on your basic equitation. You can't post a picture and ask for advice and then cry foul that a picture doesn't reflect your IRL riding. Comments are made on your IRL riding and IRL posture. Most of the comments are not based on the picture, but on the facts of core and sitting trot in general. Are you still looking for excuses not to work? What are they, the picture isn't "real", you have a professional coaching you, so you don't need our opinions, what.

Are you trying to skate sideways out of this thread because you don't like what has been suggested to help your sitting trot?

[Carolinadreamin']

Ambrey, sometimes when I find I'm having problems after concentrating on one issue, I'll just go for a hack. Just spending that time relaxing in the saddle does wonders for both my horse and me. I find my balance, seat, legs, mind, etc. improve just by leaving the arena. Do you have anyplace where you board where you can leave the arena and just hack around?

[cyberbay]

Icecapade (?) - I am certified in equine massage, so you'll have to call me a muscle person. I'm a huge muscle person and think that their tightness underlies or significantly contributes to pain syndromes. My chiro does more muscle work than adjustments, so... you could almost call him a muscle person, too.

Common sense will tell you that some of the yoga positions, done over the years, are simply not good for the body. They are extreme, and they probably require someone who is already 'talented' in the suppleness, symmetry department. And that wouldn't include someone with disc problems, necessarily.

Don't go crazy -- I'm just saying that one should use caution and common sense in any of these programs, just like anything else.

Elsewhere... I have to agree that sitting the trot is really only best on a horse whose back is up and swinging. O'wise, it's kind of pointless. It would help if the OP could get on a lunge and then free her hands and use them to help her position herself and sort of explore to find the best position for her. Everyone is built differently, and muscle tensions exacerbate, without it being that obvious...

[FancyFree]

The picture has since been removed, but the saddle was way too small. That, no doubt, will exacerbate back pain. If it fits the horse perfectly and doesn't fit the rider, that's a worthless saddle to the pair.

[Icecapade]

[QUOTE=cyberbay;3956500]Icecapade (?) - I am certified in equine massage, so you'll have to call me a muscle person. I'm a huge muscle person and think that their tightness underlies or significantly contributes to pain syndromes. My chiro does more muscle work than adjustments, so... you could almost call him a muscle person, too.

Common sense will tell you that some of the yoga positions, done over the years, are simply not good for the body. They are extreme, and they probably require someone who is already 'talented' in the suppleness, symmetry department. And that wouldn't include someone with disc problems, necessarily.

Don't go crazy -- I'm just saying that one should use caution and common sense in any of these programs, just like anything else.

QUOTE]


lol you spelled it right... (on retrospect I probably should have picked something easier, but shrug it rarely is 'taken')

Um I think we are on the same page, I mean really moderation is key, you can push your body to a point, but when it comes to stretching and what not-extreme positions, hard stretches etc etc, moderation is king. I think people just get into what they are comfortable with and beat it to death. I know I do that when I'm dancing... drilling is safe, its easy I can see good work or bad work, but its very taxing on my body because its so much repitition really.

But I digress. yes muscles hold the world together. ;) yeah for equine massagers... lol my horse has one and I don't... there is something SERIOUSLY wrong with that picture!!! :yes::yes:

[Ambrey]

Ambrey, sometimes when I find I'm having problems after concentrating on one issue, I'll just go for a hack. Just spending that time relaxing in the saddle does wonders for both my horse and me. I find my balance, seat, legs, mind, etc. improve just by leaving the arena. Do you have anyplace where you board where you can leave the arena and just hack around?

Oh don't get the wrong idea! There are a lot of things coming together for us right now and we're having a blast. This was just one issue in which a bit of personal experience from others with similar issues would be helpful, as I don't really know anyone else who has tried to come back from such a severe injury or what my prognosis is sitting-trot-wise.

Goofing off and just having fun is definitely part of the training plan!

[mp]

It has already been 1 1/2 years, it is getting past the point where I can expect further healing.

Just noticed this and wanted to comment.

I broke my arm rather badly and for about 5 years afterward, I could feel exactly where the bones broke whenever I used it a certain way. Not unbearable pain, but it was not pleasant. I figured I was stuck with a right arm that would never be pain-free. Then one day, I noticed that it didn't hurt any more. I had full use of my arm and the pain was gone.

Same thing when I broke T12 (in yet another fall :() not long afterward. It was painful for several years when I would do certain things and then gradually it stopped. I didn't do anything special or take any supplements. Just farm chores everyday and some riding. (Had to get over the nerves, too.)

These injuries aren't as serious as yours, but don't give up hope of ever getting better. My old body surprised me. Maybe yours will, too. Good luck.

[Ambrey]

Same thing when I broke T12 (in yet another fall :() not long afterward. It was painful for several years when I would do certain things and then gradually it stopped. I didn't do anything special or take any supplements. Just farm chores everyday and some riding. (Had to get over the nerves, too.)

These injuries aren't as serious as yours, but don't give up hope of ever getting better. My old body surprised me. Maybe yours will, too. Good luck.

Thanks, that is good to hear! The doctors seem to think that by now my body has done what it will do and everything from now on is "pain management." Bah!

Scooping poop is definitely good for the core ;)

[CatOnLap]

It has already been 1 1/2 years, it is getting past the point where I can expect further healing.
This is utter BS. The body continues to remodel and heal throughout life and while the greatest tissue repair will occur in the first 12 months after any injury, with proper exercise and guidance, improvements can be expected for years to come. But, you have to work diligently with expert help from a dietician/nutritionist, physiotherapist and other practitioners you trust, which can include massage therapy, kinesiologist, chiro, etc.

I'd be concerned about using a muscle relaxer
So would I. Medication is no substitute for gradual lengthening and strengthening of the muscles and becoming more fit. Plus muscle relaxants tend to increase appetite and encourage weight gain.

I have had similar and worse injuries than you describe and am a much better rider now than before my accidents. But I dedicated my life for several years to rehab. I got up a 5:30 AM to start my physio and rehab program and wasn't ready to go to work until 9 AM- about 3 hours of swimming, heat, physio exercises, and later Pilates, walking and machine work. Doesn't leave much time for surfing the net.

[Beasmom]

Poop scooping is NOT a part of physical therapy -- not past a certain point. 2 or 3 stalls a day, sure. 7 or 8, depending on the individual, can get into diminishing returns. Let me tell you how I know this:

A few years ago, when the animation business in the USA was slowing down, I was having trouble paying board on my mare, waiting for the next animation project to come in. I arranged with the BO to trade board for stall cleaning five days a week. 7 box stalls. I'm definitely not Speedy Gonzales when it comes to doing chores of any sort. It took me 2 1/2 to 3 hours to do these stalls. (OK, the rest of you stop laughing!)

After a couple of months of this, my body was a painful wreck. I budgeted enough cash to see an MT, who told me I had to quit the stall cleaning -- it was destroying my body. I even tried shoveling with the opposite hand. (Probably why it took me so long to do the job!!)

Shit shovelling is an asymmetrical activity. Riders are advised in the texts I've read to cross-train with symmetrical sports such as skiing, cycling, swimming, as opposed to tennis or golf.

Get thee to a sports trainer or doctor with a sports specialty. If you have fear issues, see a specialist for that as well. Perhaps hypnosis or other therapy will help minimize remnants of apprehension from your horrific injuries. It's understandable, but can be overcome with hard work. Positive imaging can only go so far. It has to be paired with physical effort.

[AndalusianMom]

You have to lose some of that abdominal fat. It's going to be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to develop a core strong enough to balance you when there's a very disproportionate amount of weight in the front. Note: I said disproportionate.
Plenty has been said on this and other boards confirming that overweight people can be and are strong and effective riders. That's not what I'm talking about.
You are carrying so much weight out in front of you that it's pulling your lower back into an arched posture which is damaging to the spine and ineffective for your balance.
And the only way to reduce that abdomen is to lose weight in general. Then, you will have better success in strengthening your core, which I completely agree is a key factor.

I'm almost 58, and thanks to menopause, am no longer slim. But I actively work my core daily and fight hard to maintain a decent weight. And sit the trot on my 3 horses pretty darn well!

[Ambrey]

You have to lose some of that abdominal fat. It's going to be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to develop a core strong enough to balance you when there's a very disproportionate amount of weight in the front.

LOL, I was thinking about getting offended until I looked at your profile and saw your profession. You people are harsh! I just got the same talk from my GP a few weeks ago!

Well, not quite the same, but along the same lines (40 extra lbs + bad back = bad news).

Yep, that's where all my extra weight goes, and I hadn't really thought of that in particular as exacerbating the effect my extra poundage has on my back. Not fun :(.

[AndalusianMom]

The truth is harsh sometimes, my dear. :winkgrin:

[Beasmom]

So now that you've gathered all this information, what will you do, Ambrey?

Positive visualization alone will not make you svelte and improve your posture.

Make a plan, preferably with the aid of a professional, and work it. Start by exercising your arms by pushing yourself away from the desk.

[goeslikestink]

The truth is harsh sometimes, my dear. :winkgrin:

anyaluisian you made me laugh about mucking out i do 10 in one hour complete with feed water and hay mind you i have been doing loads of horses since small so its a nack to it
most people muck out an go pass objects
ie you take the wheel barrow full to dump- me on way back i collect my straw if i am doing one stable i put the hose in another and move it along as i do them, it saves time

ambrey
cut out creamy things sauces and junk food
thats easy for starters

eat proper foods at a proper time as in 3 meals a day a good breakfast is a good start to the day dont snap in between meals

[AnotherRound]

And cut out all carbs and all surgars . Your body just stores these as fat.

[goeslikestink]

also get the trianer to show you how to tack up your horse
not only are you hurting the horses mouth by constant jabbing in the gob
but the poor sod has a bit thats banging against his teeth
and his nostrel are flared becuase hes in so much pain his mouth must be as briused as f--

give him some time off to heal inside his mouth you know ambrey hes polite lad becuase hes still trying to work with a bad and sore mouth

[Dressage Art]

does anybody have anything more to add about those of us with serious back issues and sitting the trot? I've been working on my sitting trot hard core for a couple of weeks and honestly spend most of my non-riding time feeling like I was hit by a truck.
Most long term riders develop serious back problems - this is a part of our sport. My came from a fall. The best thing that helped me is to canter with out stirrups... daily... on both leads... including extended canter, flying changes and all. This way the seat deepens and muscle relax, learning to absorb the gentle waves of canter developing muscle memory that can be applied to the sitting trot as well.

Also at least 100 of sit ups per day for the 6 pack abs and back muscles that need to support your back.

PS: still, nothing can replace Lodine and Flexeril

[Ambrey]

Thanks :) I'm happy to be feeling slightly less like an idiot for even trying this riding thing with my back issues, and more enthusiastic to get back to the work of getting past it. Good to hear that others are managing!

Lodine- I was thinking to ask the dr. for a stronger NSAID, does that one work well for you?

[Dressage Art]

lodine is my milder one :lol: since I have a permanent injury and in pain all the time, but I already have ulcers from taking 800 Motrin 3 times per day for 2+ years. So my advice, if you don't have tears standing in your eyes from pain - do not take anything - they all are bad for your stomach and you end up with daily prilosec so your stomach will not be in pain when you take your pain medication.

Try Alexander technique and thermal patches = all better than pills.

[cyberbay]

Icecapade: I hear you. Routine has its virtues. I was doing my jogging hard in place routine the other day but really emphasized holding my core AND my glutes. It was SO much harder. I am the laziest exerciser, so I am looking for exercises that I find rewarding. O'wise, I just won't do them...

Sometime I shudder in reading the posts: The devil is in the details. Posture is very hard to keep in place -- it's dynamic -- and no one is really ever taught it. I thought I had great posture -- chest up, etc. -- until someone pointed out that my shoulders were being carried behind my hips. I wasn't in alignment, IOW. Not good. It was a wonderful correction, b/c fixing that got rid of a naggy ache in my back.

I just worry about some of the exercises put out here. I know people love sit ups, but a lot of therapists don't: it puts a lot of pressure on the lower spine, by rounding it. It's great to do the plank, etc., but the KEY in every core-strengthening exercise is to lightly hold the core muscles AND the glutes while doing these exercises. O'wise, more harm than good in the long run.

Goeslikestink: sorry to call you on this, but one should eat FIVE MEALS a day. The 3 main meals PLUS 2 snacks, one late morning and one in the later afternoon.

[goeslikestink]

Icecapade: I hear you. Routine has its virtues. I was doing my jogging hard in place routine the other day but really emphasized holding my core AND my glutes. It was SO much harder. I am the laziest exerciser, so I am looking for exercises that I find rewarding. O'wise, I just won't do them...



Goeslikestink: sorry to call you on this, but one should eat FIVE MEALS a day. The 3 main meals PLUS 2 snacks, one late morning and one in the later afternoon.

snacks are what puts weight on as eating between meals

[Eclectic Horseman]

I agree with goeslikestink, but everybody is different in terms of what routine works for them. In the end, weight loss is about calories in versus calories out, no matter what.

Regarding core strength, Lisa Wilcox emphasizes that when she is riding she engages her abdominal muscles until they BURN. Food for thought for lesser riders who do not work so hard. ;)

[CatOnLap]

one should eat FIVE MEALS a day. The 3 main meals PLUS 2 snacks, one late morning and one in the later afternoon

I really cringe when people give such dietary advice.

GLs is partially right- eating snacks in addition to normal size meals can put on weight like crazy. You have to significantly reduce your portions at mealtimes if you are going to eat every 3-4 hours as recommended by most dieticians for weight loss.

Eating small portions frequently is helpful for many people but not everyone. When one is significantly "fluffy" be aware that their individual metabolism may already be screwed up and they need expert help. People who are of normal weight and happy with their body image may not need to eat as frequently. There is a wide variety of eating schedules that work for individuals.

Many people who hear advice like this will not know to reduce their portion size significantly, or will reduce it too much and end up bingeing later, etc.

Besides which, every dietary book I've ever read suggests 6 meals and snacks,(B,L&D, plus mid morning, mid afternoon and bedtime snacks) not 5, and even then, I wouldn't recommend it in this situation. The OP has been struggling with this issue for so long that its obviously too hard to do on her own and she needs expert help, in person, tailored to her indivudal situation, which none of us can give.

But as an example, a woman who is say, 35 years old, 5'7", about 250 lbs and is a light exerciser (walks or rides an hour a day) needs about 2500 cals a day. That means 6 small meals and snacks of about 400 cals each. Well, an open faced tuna salad sandwich-one slice of bread, butter thin, spread with tuna salad and a lettuce leaf, already exceeds that. Take HALF your average restaurant dinner meal- half a baked potato with 1 tblsp of sour cream, a small steak of say 4 oz, a small salad with a tablespoon of dressing, 5 steamed asparagus spears with butter- is already about 700 cals- almost a third of your daily requirements. I really think it takes weekly coaching from an expert to stick to such a plan if you haven't been working on it for a while already.

Throw in one small bag of chips a day and you will gain nearly a pound a week or need to go jogging for an extra hour every day. Try one small can of soda pop a day, and you'll gain 2 lbs a month. Throw in one extra apple a day, and you will gain a pound a month. It ain't easy.

[CatOnLap]

Besides which, maybe overweight has nothing to do with the OP's original problem.

This in my inbox today from a medical list-serve I subscribe to:

Top doctor says not all obese people are unhealthy
Focus should be on those most at risk, researcher argues


The Vancouver Sun
Wed 18 Mar 2009
Page: B3
Section: Canada & World
By: Sharon Kirkey


One of Canada's top obesity doctors says it's time to stop recommending weight loss for everyone who meets official criteria for obesity.

Dr. Arya Sharma says being obese doesn't necessarily doom people to poor health and that weight loss recommendations should be targeted at those most at risk because of medical problems. Many people who meet the body mass index criteria for obesity "are really not that sick at all," says Sharma, chairman for cardiovascular obesity research and management at the University of Alberta and scientific director of the Canadian Obesity Network.

"It's not unusual to find someone come into your practice whose BMI is 30 or 32 (technically obese). This might be someone who is physically active, who is eating a good healthy diet. If you followed the guidelines to the letter you would be prescribing obesity treatment when there's really no reason to do that, because they're not medically obese."

His appeal comes as evidence begins to mount that a significant proportion of fat people are metabolically healthy. One in every three people who are obese -- and half of those who are overweight -- may be resistant to fat-related abnormalities that increase their risk of cardiovascular disease, according to new research from Albert Einstein College of Medicine in New York.

The concept of "benign obesity" has been known for more than 20 years. Only now are researchers discovering the scope of the phenomenon.

"Obesity was far less common when it was identified, and then obesity became this gigantic epidemic, with just the assumed outcome that everyone is going to be at risk for vascular disease and a whole bunch of other things," says Rachel Wildman, an assistant professor of epidemiology and population health at Albert Einstein College. "As it turns out, it seems not to be the case. There is at least a proportion of obese individuals who at this point don't seem to be at elevated cardiovascular risk."

Not only is their risk fairly minimal, "in some instances it's better than individuals who are normal weight."
Hardly a week passes without a headline warning the overweight are eating their way toward a premature death, and there's a huge amount of money to be made by encouraging hysteria around the issue. The weight-loss industry is worth $50-billion in the U.S. alone.

bolding mine.

[TBROCKS]

Ambrey, you're getting a lot of advice on dietary management here, but my advice is to consult with a nutritionist or dietician. You can get sound nutritional education geared for your lifestyle and your metabolic needs. Meal planning will be part of it. The nutritionist where I work part-time even does a grocery store tour, where she takes her clients to a major grocery store and they learn about how food company marketing people strategically get you to buy the bad stuff, and she discusses food label reading. One thing our nutritionist points out is that the healthy natural foods are mostly found in the perimeter of the store...stay away from the inside ailses, as they contain processed, high calorie foods. A nutritionist will sit down and help you develop weight loss goals and give you tools to help you succeed.

[Ambrey]

Regarding core strength, Lisa Wilcox emphasizes that when she is riding she engages her abdominal muscles until they BURN. Food for thought for lesser riders who do not work so hard. ;)

We lesser riders are also not riding GP on horses with 3' of suspension at the trot, as it were. She's doing the abdominal equivalent of benching 210 lbs, and I'm over here with my 5 lb dumbbells.

There's a discussion on another board about core strength and the myths surrounding it that I'm finding interesting. I'm changing insurances and hoping to find a new PT soon, so maybe I will be able to make more progress.

[AnotherRound]

I am with you, COL, however, I thought I would point out that there is no way on earth I could lose weight on 2500 calories a day. I was gaining weight on 1000 calories a day, and that was NO carbs, No Fat and NO sugars. I had to cut down to 750 calories a day at the most, and work out at the gym, ride, yoga, and then I slowly lost about 7 pounds a month. In one year I lost 65 pounds, crom 215 down now to 150. I still don't eat more than 1000 a day, and if I do that more than a few days ina row I quickly put on about 7 pounds. There was no way I could eat all the food my doctor/endochrinologist wanted me to eat - the types of food was good, but I had to cut the portions he wrote out of me in half. Not 4 egg white omlets, 2 egg whites (from a hard boiled egg) and nothing else, no cheese, no vegs, nothing else. No sugar, tea or coffee with no milk, not low fat milk, maybe . meat or fish and broccoli for dinner, about 4 bites of meat and 2 stalks of broccoli, I didn't eat lunch. I was supposed to, but I couldn't or I wouldn't lose any weight. I had a snack, something, in the afternoon on the way home from work. Now I eat a normal meal in the evenings and have coffee with milk and a yoghurt for lunch, and I seem to be able to still lose just a bit at a time. but there is nothing tried and true for anybody, and for some people, 1500 calories a day will pile on the pounds, even if they are healthy 1500 calories. Just thought I would put that out there for folks to think about.

[Ambrey]

Ambrey, you're getting a lot of advice on dietary management here, but my advice is to consult with a nutritionist or dietician. You can get sound nutritional education geared for your lifestyle and your metabolic needs.

Thanks for your advice :) Unfortunately, because of my health situation there are no "quick fixes," I have to do everything very slowly and carefully. I've already made most of the obvious adjustments (getting my hubby to agree to those was a real challenge, I tell you!) and just need to keep chipping away at things.

But that's not horse related, so better left to another board :yes:

I think your advice to look to professionals for help is good, though! If there's one thing I've found, it's that losing weight is not a "one size fits all" proposition!

[cyberbay]

Sorry, gls, but could you please read my post ? Yikes!! I NEVER said, if you would please read, to eat MORE nor did I make any reference to numbers of calories. I said, essentially, to eat periodically throughout the day. Most nutritionists will say to eat small meals throughout the day. A 'snack' can be a small piece of fruit and some protein, like almonds. If you do eat 5x, or whatever, you will automatically find that you eat less at the main meals.

One's weight is no indication of health. Unfortunately, in this country, we mix up being thin with being healthy or eating correctly.

[FancyFree]

Sorry, gls, but could you please read my post ? Yikes!! I NEVER said, if you would please read, to eat MORE nor did I make any reference to numbers of calories. I said, essentially, to eat periodically throughout the day. Most nutritionists will say to eat small meals throughout the day. A 'snack' can be a small piece of fruit and some protein, like almonds. If you do eat 5x, or whatever, you will automatically find that you eat less at the main meals.

One's weight is no indication of health. Unfortunately, in this country, we mix up being thin with being healthy or eating correctly.

That's what I do cyberbay. I have chicken pieces or fruit in the fridge for quick snacks. I've read that women usually don't get enough protein, thinking it's too fattening. Actually it's not and I've found it's a more filling, for the long term, than a carb snack.

Diet is wonderful, but the overweight person will not lose that much weight if they don't exercise. Serious cardio. Outside of riding at a pretty advanced level, I don't consider the regular riding of one horse much exercise. Even the top riders incorporate some kind of other cardio, outside of their riding.

[Miss Aria]

Well I'm no professional rider, and I'm not overweight, but I do have a bad back and so can sympathize with anyone who rides with back issues. How about trying one of those upside-down boards? Gosh can't remember the name of it but you hang upside down like a bat; stretches all sorts of things and really helps the spine. Then you exercise as much or as little as you can to keep limber. Key is to keep yourself active in whatever way possible. Just sitting on a horse isn't going to do it, you have to physically get yourself active. Don't care what sort of injury you have, there's some exercise out there that will help, just motivate yourself and get mobile. It'll not only help with back issues but with weight issues. Shoot, can't hurt, can it?

[goeslikestink]

Sorry, gls, but could you please read my post ? Yikes!! I NEVER said, if you would please read, to eat MORE nor did I make any reference to numbers of calories. I said, essentially, to eat periodically throughout the day. Most nutritionists will say to eat small meals throughout the day. A 'snack' can be a small piece of fruit and some protein, like almonds. If you do eat 5x, or whatever, you will automatically find that you eat less at the main meals.

One's weight is no indication of health. Unfortunately, in this country, we mix up being thin with being healthy or eating correctly.

my point was in say what type of snacks -- see snack to us brits means enting between meals as in junk food
snack to you cn be fruit which would be benifical to ambrey but not crisps
chips etc as they are also commingly as snack food which will make you fat likes chocolates thats also can be classed as snack food

[cyberbay]

Well, gls, didn't finish my sentence, 'cause I meant to say that chocolate is my favorite main meal and snack meal! But, it's banished to the 'special occasions' category, a category I'm always trying to dream up. O'wise, it's the whole carbs, veggies and moderate glycemic fruits, and protein at every meal. It's kind of dreary at times, I have to say.

But to eat small meals throughout the day is not a bad way to start a diet -- if it doesn't result in weight loss, it may improve your overall health. Tweak from there maybe for weight loss.

A'Round: I am freakin' wowed by the weight loss that you've accomplished. WOW!! Congratulations. The discipline is really impressive.

[FancyFree]

How about trying one of those upside-down boards? Gosh can't remember the name of it but you hang upside down like a bat; stretches all sorts of things and really helps the spine.

An Inversion table. I LOVE mine. I swear I think I've grown an inch from the stretching. My back feels so good afterwards. But a word of caution: Do not do it alone until you absolutely get the hang of getting back up. When I first got one, I became a little stuck until one of my kids found me later. Fortunately it wasn't too long later. But now I can handle it easily. I so recommend it for getting a great stretch.

[AnotherRound]

LOL, FF hanging by her boots, arms crossed, pissed off look on her face, the end of a rope on a pully swinging gently just out of reach, the minutes are ticking by, in comes her 10 year old daughter with her playmate, "Wow, Mrs. Freidman, what are you doing up there?"

"Its, its exercise, sweetie, Sandra, will you hand me that rope, sweetie?"

"What rope, mom?"

"The rope right there, the one, just right there sweetie, will you hand it to me!!!"

"Oh, this one?"

"Yes, thank you. That's all. Thank you sweetie darling."

"Okay,"

"You can go now sweetie"

"Don't you need any more help?"

"No, thank you just, just GET OUT! I'm sorrysweetie, I don't mean to yell, can you just please go somewhere sweetie, thats a good girl."

"Sure, Mrs. Friedman, we can go to my house, right Sandy? Why don't we go to my house."

"Ok, see you later, mom."

[Dressage Art]

chocolate is my favorite main meal and snack meal!I'm trying really, really hard to do my taxes... hate it.... feel that I deserve some reward for my misery .... thus overdosing on the Ferrero Rocher Chocolates. I ate 2 boxes of them in this week alone!!!

[Ambrey]

I'm trying really, really hard to do my taxes... hate it.... feel that I deserve some reward for my misery .... thus overdosing on the Ferrero Rocher Chocolates. I ate 2 boxes of them in this week alone!!!

I am very good about not keeping junk food around... but it has been Girl Scout Cookie season. Do you realize that Samoas have like 150 calories EACH? Maybe more, but if I get up and go look at a box, it might accidentally open and a cookie would jump into my mouth.

Good thing my daughter only sells cookies once a year!

[Beasmom]

AhHAH! That's IT! An inversion table. Another inch or two taller and my weight will be PERFECT!!!

AR, love your little vignette about FF...

[FancyFree]

LOL, FF hanging by her boots, arms crossed, pissed off look on her face, the end of a rope on a pully swinging gently just out of reach, the minutes are ticking by, in comes her 10 year old daughter with her playmate, "Wow, Mrs. Freidman, what are you doing up there?"

"Its, its exercise, sweetie, Sandra, will you hand me that rope, sweetie?"

"What rope, mom?"

"The rope right there, the one, just right there sweetie, will you hand it to me!!!"

"Oh, this one?"

"Yes, thank you. That's all. Thank you sweetie darling."

"Okay,"

"You can go now sweetie"

"Don't you need any more help?"

"No, thank you just, just GET OUT! I'm sorrysweetie, I don't mean to yell, can you just please go somewhere sweetie, thats a good girl."

"Sure, Mrs. Friedman, we can go to my house, right Sandy? Why don't we go to my house."

"Ok, see you later, mom."


AR you are talented, sweetie darling. :lol:

[Miss Aria]

Yes the inversion table. They are wonderful contraptions and can really limber you up. I agree with FF though, getting off one at first is no easy feat.

And Ambrey, dear, eating Girl Scout Cookies just once a year will not be beneficial to a diet. Once the weight gets on it's pretty hard to get off unless you make a highly concentrated effort which it seems you're not able to do. Why not just use some common sense and say 'no' to the cookies?

[Mozart]

LOL, FF hanging by her boots, arms crossed, pissed off look on her face, the end of a rope on a pully swinging gently just out of reach, the minutes are ticking by, in comes her 10 year old daughter with her playmate, "Wow, Mrs. Freidman, what are you doing up there?"

"Its, its exercise, sweetie, Sandra, will you hand me that rope, sweetie?"

"What rope, mom?"

"The rope right there, the one, just right there sweetie, will you hand it to me!!!"

"Oh, this one?"

"Yes, thank you. That's all. Thank you sweetie darling."

"Okay,"

"You can go now sweetie"

"Don't you need any more help?"

"No, thank you just, just GET OUT! I'm sorrysweetie, I don't mean to yell, can you just please go somewhere sweetie, thats a good girl."

"Sure, Mrs. Friedman, we can go to my house, right Sandy? Why don't we go to my house."

"Ok, see you later, mom."

Are you a fan of Absolutely Fabulous? I could just hear Jennifer Saunders saying "sweetie darling, can you help mummy please"

After which she calls her friend "Patsy darling, I need a drink love".

[FancyFree]

Are you a fan of Absolutely Fabulous? I could just hear Jennifer Saunders saying "sweetie darling, can you help mummy please"

After which she calls her friend "Patsy darling, I need a drink love".

Are you saying AR is envisioning me as Eddy Monsoon? :lol: I love that show. I can't believe they're doing an American version. Sacrilege!


Unfortunately, I've come to find dieting and Vodka are not compatible. :no:

[Mozart]

Don't know if AR meant it, but yes, as I was reading I was picturing Edwina Monsoon stuck upside down on an inversion table and then being rescued by an exasperated Saffron (aka Saffie darling). I love AbFab, I can't believe someone is doing a re-make. There is no way it will be half as good as the original, they cannot possibly get away with half as much as Saunders and Lumley got away with.

To keep it HR...um...were there ever any horse related episodes of AbFAb?

[FancyFree]

I can't recall any AbFab episodes that involved riding, but here is a French and Saunders skit that I saw at another board. It's very funny:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsbWKA9dXgU

[AnotherRound]

Yes, that's what I was thinking, and I don't understand them doing a remake, the original played here in the states in the late 90's, my older daughter and I rolled on the floor, laughing, and she is a great mimic, she walks in the house doing one or the other of them perfectly. Mozart, that was a good line. So degenerate.

[Mozart]

I can't recall any AbFab episodes that involved riding, but here is a French and Saunders skit that I saw at another board. It's very funny:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsbWKA9dXgU

Peter Pan needs to spend some time with the Parelllis ;)

[Miss Aria]

That French and Saunders skit cracks me up every time I watch it; too funny.

Funnier still would be Eddi on an inversion table; OMG that would make for a VERY funny episode, ending with maybe Eddi and Patsy both hanging on one and Saffie having a proper tea with Gran during it all, Gran asking "Will you ever be getting them down?" and the camera panning in on Saffi's hee hee hee face.

Ah yes, AbFab was quite the perfect show; I love that dry Brit humor.

[AnotherRound]

Thanks for your advice :) Unfortunately, because of my health situation there are no "quick fixes," I have to do everything very slowly and carefully. I've already made most of the obvious adjustments (getting my hubby to agree to those was a real challenge, I tell you!) and just need to keep chipping away at things.

But that's not horse related, so better left to another board :yes:

I think your advice to look to professionals for help is good, though! If there's one thing I've found, it's that losing weight is not a "one size fits all" proposition!

I know no doctor who would say it was unhealthy for you to drastically cut your calories, especially when your health issues revolve around your weight problem. None of them are going to say go slow and easy, so that's a crock. People want "permission" to be lazy, careless, uninformed, obese, unfit, whatever. And you're giving it to yourself. Oh, well. Munch away!!

[CatOnLap]

Oh really AR, lets get back to French and Saunders! I don't think Dawn French ever deprived herself of cookies and she did just fine!
Here's something I did not know- Dawn French's dad told her she was beautiful every day of her life until she was 19- when he committed suicide.

[Beasmom]

OMG. That's sad.

[AnotherRound]

Oh, that's so sad. People who do that have no concept of what damage they do to the people they love. Damaged themselves, from their own parents likely, they perpetuate the cycle of hopelessness just by that act. I can't judge, as I have no idea of the pain it takes to 'go there' but I can observe how it destroys life beyond their own. So very sad.