Pony breeders, Caspians?

[vineyridge]

I recently met some and think I have fallen in love.

They are all tiny, aren't they? How do they tend to do at shows? What, if anything, do they do well?

[Marsha]

Hello,
I have 4 Caspians in my busy lesson/show barn, and as a trainer I LOVE LOVE LOVE the Caspian ponies. Yes, they are normally small, around 12H ( I do have a medium, however),
but they are super ponies for kids. Not only are they highly intelligent and easy to train, BUT they are also little sportscars when it comes to talent. The ones I have are like little warmbloods in the way they move. My medium Caspian will outwalk any 17H horse, what a stride!!! They make very, very good hunter ponies, as they have a good jump and are pracically born broke and with a lead change. We also get coments about them at shows. There are a few pictures on my website if you would like to dee them in action!!
If you are looking for a small pony, I think they are the way to go.
We have also showed the caspian pony in dressage, and they score very well.

[vineyridge]

I was wondering if top level pony breeding programs have incorporated Caspians for their obvious quality and their size. And if not, why not?

[1derful]

They are actually horses according to their breed association. I love the look of these small horses. http://www.caspian.org/

[Kyzteke]

Louise Firouz, an American lady who lived most of her life in Iran, was instrumental in "discovering" and re-creating the Caspian. I know this because she was also heavily involved in Akhal-Tekes...one of "my" breeds.

Many equine historians believe the Caspian's ancestors were the first "horse"...I haven't founded the science that closely, but it's an interesting theory.

There is a breeder in VA who is a friend of mine, if someone would like to know more about them. Also a breeder up in Canada has 30+ of them.

[pintopiaffe]

SportPony was or is using Caspian in her pony program. http://www.stallionstation.com/kaleidoscopefarm/ponyproject.html

She was doing Sport ponies for dressage & eventing in the US long before the GRP thing became fashionable.

[Gindarkh]

There is a breeder in VA who is a friend of mine, if someone would like to know more about them.

Thanks for the plug, Katrina...:)

I have a small breeding herd of 13 Caspians here in VA. They are remarkable little creatures, they look dainty but are really tough as nails, incredibly elegant yet super-athletic. True small horses, they have horse gaits and horse jump, and are really trainable. They can be as small as 10 hands or as big as 12.2, but they are narrow, not wide like pony breeds, which tends to turn off more people than not, but I prefer the refinement.

I love the Caspian halfbreds, as I am too big to ride the purebreds. I have three, and though young, they show incredible potential, especially the two Akhal-Teke/Caspian crosses I did. Coming two-year olds, they will mature large-pony size yet are 100% horse.

Hope that answers your question !

[Sportpony]

I stood a Caspian stallion for his owner, Julie Hooi (in SC) for several years and bred several of my warmblood cross mares to him as well. He was nice to handle, Julie's daughter (I believe she was 12 at the time) started riding him as a 10 year old and had no problems. Julie's daughter also qualified her medium pony mare, a halfbred Caspian, her last year of showing mediums, for the national Pony Hunters, which was held in Lexington, KY that year so I got to see her and she was very nice.

The foals I got by him out of my sporthorse mares all did go as hunter prospects and were uniformly flat moving and pretty headed, with good length of stride.

As I started downsizing (age does creep up on one!) I stopped standing stallions for outside owners as well as limiting myself primarily to breeding for dressage prospects, so I no longer use him or stand him. I think he would have been even more useful to a breeding program with more emphasis on hunter ponies.

[vineyridge]

Just thinking out loud, but aren't honies the one thing pony breeders have to worry? Reading this board, it seems that small TBs are used for crosses and so are Arabs, especially with the Welsh pony.

Wouldn't using a Caspian have a high probability of giving the qualities that the TB and Arab bring and still keep the pony size? I'd think adding a Caspian instead of an Arab or TB would be kind of a no-brainer for an adventurous pony breeder.

[Windswept Stable]

They just are not used much for pony hunters.

[Summerwood]

I personally have seen only one Caspian but he was impressive. I believe that for most breeders, thoroughbred mares are much cheaper and more readily available, and they give you the ability to breed to a small welsh or otherwise and get (hopefully) what will stay a large. This is just my perception, feel free to correct me if I am wrong. Caspians are quite small so i would think you would be limited on the size you could get out of a pony mare.

[Dune]

They just are not used much for pony hunters.


Why do you think this is so, may I ask?

[VirginiaBred]

Why do you think this is so, may I ask?

I'd like to address this, and of course Windswept should also.

If you look at the conformation of a Caspain pony you will see characteristics that are not desirable breeding traits in pony hunter conformation.

They tend to have long backs, shorter necks that are thicker and thick through the throat latch and jaw area. They also have a higher neck/head carriage than pony breeders like. Built uphill to some extent.

While they are certainly proportioned well enough for their frame, they are not something I would consider in my breeding program. That doesn't mean they are very nice ponies!!! :) They are, I'm sure.

[Windswept Stable]

Very well said Va Bred- can't say that I can add anything else. Just not what pony breeders are looking for.

[Painted Wings]

There is someone here in Missouri that stands a Caspian Stallion.

http://www.freshstartfarm.com/id12.html

[Ashemont]

As stated, Capians are NOT ponies; they are small horses. I've been very fortunate to know and handle quite a few of them. Dick Kearley brings at least 4 to The National Drive every year. He drives them in all configurations, uses them for demos and allows anyone who wants to take a lesson with Bob Giles - and doesn't have a horse or who wants to try a multiple - to drive them. IMO that speaks volumes for this breed - temperament, versatility and stamina. Those little horses go almost all day long and seem eager for more.

Dick's have lovely conformation and other than one they don't seem to have thick throatlatches, long backs , etc. as noted by VA Bred. Like any breed I'm sure there are different individuals however the ones I've seen are quite lovely and well balanced.

Dick and Bob are very big on promoting Caspians. Check out http://www.dimarcaspians.com They put on funny skits at various horse events in Florida and have done many presentations at the KY Horse Park (I even got to ride along with the 4-in-hand for one of them :D ) I've been so impressed with these little guys that I've threatened to 'accidentally' put my Polish Driving Pony mares in the stall with Kiyan (one of Dick's young stallions) to keep him company overnight while at The Drive in KY. I just might have to do it this year ;)

[Summerwood]

The Caspian stallion that I saw in person had very correct conformation, although perhaps slightly more uphill than perhaps a hunter breeder would want to use. I was not the only one who thought that...he was site champion at the ASPR inspections not only because his conformation was extremely correct but also because of his excellent quality gaits and UNBELIEVABLE jump. You could also tell he was extremely smart and he was trained entirely on voice command to do the jump chute and was very obedient. He came when his handler called him by name. I was very impressed. He looked exactly like a mini thoroughbred. He did not have a long back or a short thick neck. This was, admittedly, the first and only experience I have ever had with a Caspian and the photos I have seen of him since absolutely do him no justice whatsoever. Perhaps he was not the norm for the breed but he was definately correct and definately deserved to be in a sport pony program. Perhaps the op saw a similar stallion to the one that I saw. I also saw a really nice one advertised on dreamhorse not too long ago that looked really fancy over the jumps.

[Dune]

. Just not what pony breeders are looking for.

Pony breeders, or hunter pony breeders??:confused: Would you say they are too "horse-like" then, or too "dressage-type"?

[Windswept Stable]

Pony breeders, or hunter pony breeders??:confused: Would you say they are too "horse-like" then, or too "dressage-type"?

Pony hunter breeders. They are just not the look. Not saying that they are not nice and also cute..

Summerwood--I see the difference that you refer to..and I am not referring to a sport pony program as I was referring to a pony hunter breeding program. Maybe they do fit in there. Perhaps the sport pony breeders could weigh in on this one. *** Not to offend anyone-- so it can be stated that sometimes sport pony breeders are one in the same with pony hunter breeders.

[Gindarkh]

If you look at the conformation of a Caspain pony you will see characteristics that are not desirable breeding traits in pony hunter conformation.

They tend to have long backs, shorter necks that are thicker and thick through the throat latch and jaw area. They also have a higher neck/head carriage than pony breeders like. Built uphill to some extent.

I find this quote very surprising. I don't know what Caspians you may have seen in person, but this description just simply does not fit the vast majority of the breed. They are extremely refined, particularly in their front ends, and my stallion is far more elegant and less cresty in the neck and less "jowl-ly", for lack of a better term, than most of the Welsh studs I have seen. The most sought-after horses within the breed very closely resemble tiny Arabians, with the same delicate features. I have found more people turned off by the narrowness through the body than anything else in their conformation.

And I am also surprised by why an uphill build is a bad thing in a horse intended for riding ?

In the interest of full disclosure, I am neither educated in nor interested in breeding for the hunter ring, I am aiming my offspring at the pony jumpers and dressage arenas. But I have been repeatedly asked by breeder friends more experienced in the registries to present my Caspian halfbreds for ASPR approval to increase interest in the breed. After looking into the requirements, I decided it was too much of a racket and I wasn't interested in that either, but all the Caspians that have been presented for ASPR approval so far have not only been approved, but most of their offspring have recived First Premium status.

Interesting to see the differences in the preferences.

[Dune]

Pony hunter breeders. They are just not the look. Not saying that they are not nice and also cute..

Summerwood--I see the difference that you refer to..and I am not referring to a sport pony program as I was referring to a pony hunter breeding program. Maybe they do fit in there. Perhaps the sport pony breeders could weigh in on this one. *** Not to offend anyone-- so it can be stated that sometimes sport pony breeders are one in the same with pony hunter breeders.


Thanks for clarifying the typo, got it now. :)