Greenie vs. Made horse

[kellyb]

I'm going to try and spare you the long story (I'm a rambler, you can thank me later). Basically I am looking for a new horse and I can NOT decide whether I want a prospect/greenie to work with, or if I want to buy something that's already made. I'm not talking like A show/world show rated made - but well broke/packer type of horse. I'm not working with a huge budget, but with the market the way it is, your dollar goes pretty far now a days...

It's easy to say just go with the one you fall in love with...but I fall in love with/see potential in every horse, so that's not going to cut it :lol: I can do the training myself, so it would just be costing me time, not money.

We're all horse people, we all know the pros and cons of greenie vs. made horse...The greenie would save me 50%-75% in purchase price...but the made horse I could just relax, enjoy and go show tomorrow with...the greenie I could train myself, the way I wanted...but the made horse is...made :D

So now tell me what to buy. :lol:

[Lucassb]

Never assume that a horse that is made up can't learn a TON ... and meanwhile, you have the fun of riding a horse that already has the basics installed.

Greenies are much harder to evaluate because to some extent you have to guess at their potential. If the only reason you would consider a greenie is cost... then frankly I'd take advantage of the economy and find yourself a nice broke animal and have fun teaching it higher level skills.

[Mrs. Cowboy]

Most "packer" horses are not as young as your basic greenie or prospect. So I tend to go for younger horses. We bond through their training and I have no one but myself to blame if they don't learn something I'm teaching them. :)

But I've gotten all but one of my current horses before age 2.

[ThirdCharm]

There is no one good answer here! I personally love greenies... but they can be frustrating too and sometimes it is nice to get a break from riding horses you are always explaining things to. I have had one "made" horse and it was neat to just go "Hmm, this horse has competed at this level, so she must do walk pirouettes" and push the button and voila, walk pirouette. Whoohoo! Made horses can be great for working on your own riding, competitive campaigning at X level, and improving rider confidence.

Greenies can be a great thing to, you can get a bargain and train it "your way", but sometimes they don't turn out to be cut out for what you want to do, they can be frustrating or scary, and they can teach you bad habits dealing with "green moments".

So anyway it just depends on your goals/issues (time for that novel!)

Jennifer

[bort84]

I'm a greenie lover, but I certainly wouldn't push them for everyone = ) I just like the feeling of "making" something. Probably comes from growing up without much money, so I had to make something out of nothing, haha. It feels GREAT to make something that you "discovered" and beat those that were purchased "made" - thought that isn't always how it turns out for sure! I do so love to ride a great finished horse, but I really love the process of getting on there too.

Greenies can be all ages though. I currently have a dressage "greenie" that I originally purchased to "flip." He had so much potential I felt I should just keep him instead... Haha, so you certainly never know what you might get. Might get a trail horse at best, might get a world beater. That's half the fun!

[JohnDeere]

When I replaced Dobbin I looked at a horse that was made. Wow was she. I really wanted her but trainers were afraid of what had been done ot her by other trainer. So I bought an older greenie. Got burned big time. Got another greenie cause my budget was gone. This one may turn out good but not as good as the made horse for quite a while, though I have a lot more time with this one.

If you can get a greenie for little or nothing you wont lose much if they dont work out for what you want. Maybe he wants to rein when you want dressage. You can give him away without feeling bad. Lets face it, giving them away might be the only option.

OTOH, if you can get a made horse for little or nothing, thats my vote.

[JenEM]

There is a middle ground between completely made and green bean ;) If you're not sure what you want, or what pricing will look like, why not look at some that are well-started and have a little milage, but aren't totally broke? You'd have a horse that would be good to do some things straight off, but you could still have fun learning more together.

[Sebastian]

I voted for "made" horse... Basically, I'm just old and tired. :winkgrin:

Seb :)

[Janet]

I prefer a green horse.

But I am DEFINITELY NOT "saving money" in the long term.

[skatepixie]

To me, it's really a question only you can answer. That needs to be based on if you actually *enjoy* working with green horses. Would you have more satisfaction in the long run knowing that you did most of the training with the horse, or does it not matter?

[Blugal]

I voted "made" horse because in this economy, you can probably pick up a really nice horse for far less than the cumulative costs would be of a greenie + upkeep and training for several years.

But then it depends on what you want right now. Some days it's nice to do the planning and potential thing. Other days you really appreciate coming to the barn and knowing you can have a nice relaxing ride with no surprises :)

[Flash44]

Check out the 'Tweens, meaing a horse that will jump around 3' but not always consistently, and has the potential to do a little more with some time and mileage. there are a lot of people who don't have the time or money to get a horse through the middle ground of being green and being a packer, but the horse certainly has the potential and ability to be a packer. that way you can go show, but still have the challenge of ironing out the wrinkles and putting the polish on, but without the complete frustration of green!

[Queen Latisha]

I always buy the green beans. I have so much fun training and watching the horse progress.:D

[shawneeAcres]

We have a couple of nice horses that aren't made, but aren't dead green (i.e. are jumping around 2'6") for sale that are very reasonable. I'd say look for soemthing along those lines, that with just a couple months work would be ready to go and show. What I am selling WELL and for good prices are pretty much made horses, the dead green ones are dirt cheap (unless awfully fancy) and these types that are almost, but not quite there are still selling, but are cheaper than they were a year ago and owners are often motivated to move them as they don't want to keep putting money into training etc in this economy. However, you have to decide can you make the horse yourself or do you ahve to pay someone to do it. If the latter you may not be saving any $$$

[kellyb]

You guys are NOT helpful. So far, 14 people have voted green, and 14 people have voted made.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Seems like this is a tough decision for all of us. :)

[findeight]

Yayyyy I'm a tie breaker. 15th to vote and I went with made.

Doesn't have to be finished, just pretty well started to give you an idea of actual ability. Plus you don't have to bust your butt getting them worked almost every day on top of job, family and other responsibilities. No surprises either.

They are well priced these days.

[Leather]

My vote would be a made horse with a known history of only one or two owners.

I got my paint as a weanling and started him and know him inside and out. I k now how to push his buttons, because I'm the one that put them there. But it took 3-4 years to get him there.

My QH was well broke, but had a shady history. Not quite sure where he had been and such. As a result it took a long time to figure out his buttons and I just never got completely comfortable with him.

My Paso Fino is the best of both worlds. She's 12 and completely made, but has only had one owner/trainer her whole life. I was able to learn directly from her old owner and we clicked immediately. And if I have any problems questions I can still call/email her former owner to help figure them out.

[lizathenag]

and what you mean by green and made.

I have taken several horses of the track. they have a lot to learn and they know a lot.

how well do you bounce.

I plan to keep my current ottb until he is 28 and I am 72 and then figure out what to do next.

[Penthilisea]

I've done the green bean and the mid range well started younger horse and then I got my cheapy-cheap broke to death (albeit aged) Very Nice Horse. And for me, (not saying for everyone) the sheer joy of just finding out he knows how to answer questions AND the answer is Yes? Is awesome. There is no drama, no issues, I can just get on and go do stuff, instead of waiting, wondering, training, etc.

Age isn't such a hard and fast rule though, my TB is 18 and while he is made for flatwork, he will never make up into a bombproof trail horse. On the other hand, the coming 4 year old Morgan I ride is already a good citzen, and in 3-6 months of weekly lessons would be a reliable steady eddie fun horse for anyone.

[saultgirl]

No need to decide now; take a look at everything that catches your eye, and buy the right horse for you.

[snbess]

I don't so much think it's hard for us (the collective) to make up your mind for you...it's just that some of us like greenies and some of us like made horses...and it happens to be about 50/50 right now. lol Personally, having done the greenie thing for about the last 2 decades, I'm ready for a made horse. What are YOU ready for?

[Bluey]

Where are you in your riding?

If you already know how to make a horse from scratch, how about now getting a made horse with more potential and you both get to enjoy going as far as you can with what he already knows and you can learn and teach him further?
If you don't have that much showing experience, take the chance to get a better than you have been showing horse with this economy and go further that way.

You can always go back later to bring a green horse along, if you decide to do so, but you are learning more about what you don't know yet.

Now, if you are already very good at both, then flip a penny.:winkgrin:

[AppendixQHLover]

I picked the made because I don't have the time to work with a greenie. The job that pays for horses is very busy at this time and will be through summertime.

Maybe at another time, when I have more time I will bring a greenie around.

[LookinSouth]

I say go with made. I agree with LucassB. Just because a horse is made doesn't mean it cannot learn new skills nor does it mean it is an easy ride or unchallenging.
In addition, if you go with a made horse you have a pretty clear idea what your getting from the beginning. A greenie? Not so much.

And quite frankly, I know so many ammies that prefer to make their own greenies rather than buy made but the problem is if they don't get a pro on the horse frequently enough there often are holes in the training. I have yet to ride an ammy made horse that is as consistent, responsive and fine tuned as a professionally made horse (by a good pro obviously). Not to say my personal experiences/opinion applies to you (nor anyone else on this board) but it has deterred me from ever getting a complete greenie unless I decide to put in full training.:)

[Arcadien]

Well, can't answer that poll until you write a few sentences on what your *goal* is for this new horse, and time frame. (And sorry if its obvious from past posts, I can't recall right now...) I.e., what discipline are you going to show in, and where do you hope to be riding this horse in 3, or 5 years?

Arcadien

[PNWjumper]

If money is your primary concern I'm for the made horse. I pick up a lot of green horses and with very rare exception, I end up putting more time and money into them (to get them into the bigger jumper classes) than it would have cost to buy a more made one. But then it's probably worth mentioning that I also take on a lot of "problem" horses, which may skew my view a little.

But seriously? Think about the money. How much does it cost to keep a horse for a year? I'm going to go with roughly $6K on the cheap side for a show horse (including hay, grain, shoes, vaccinations, worming, board???, etc.) . Add whatever training and shows you do onto that and a horse that might take 2 years to get to that "made" point is suddenly $12K-$20K more expensive that what you "paid."

In this market I suspect that you could pick up a more-made-than-green horse for less money than it would cost to get a real greenie to that point.

If the project is what you're looking for, then I'd vote for the green horse. That's the part I love about riding, so I certainly understand that perspective. :)

[Beverley]

Well, I voted greenie just based on the last few posts and hoping to bring you back toward a tie!:)

Honestly, I can't help you either. Right now I am enjoying my pretty well made 6 yo, purchased green at 2, and my still greenish 4 yo purchased a year ago. Over the decades I've acquired both 'types' and really enjoyed them both. A 'made' horse isn't a dead end, you are continuing to 'make' them to your tastes even into their 20s. In my lifetime stable, a 'made' ex steeplechaser is 'made' into a foxhunter, a 'green' western pleasure horse made first into a 'made' western pleasure horse and then a 'made' foxhunter, and so on. They're all fun.

[LockeMeadows]

I love working with greenies. Actually, that's about all I used to ride. My show horse is pretty made, but I've owned her since she was three, so we went through the green stage a few years ago. The only "made" horses I've ever owned were ones I did myself. If you find one with a great brain, the training is easy. You just have to be careful what you bring home! Just because a horse is "green" doesn't mean they are dangerous. Some just need someone to take the reins and teach them.

[Romantic Rider]

I recently had to make this same decision -- they were all 5 and 6 year old Arabians, but two were made, and one was just very well-handled but not started. I'm going green, mostly because I love the idea that a horse you start and train and everything is 100% your horse, you can make them pretty much the way you want them to ride. I have two horses now, and the one I started is so much more my horse. I trust and understand her much more. Now I'm selling my "made" horse, who I never did click with, and am going to try starting another one. We train a couple of horses a year usually, and they always turn out to be better, more responsive rides than the ones we have just bought.

[barrelchick00]

I went green and sometimes wish I would've done my homework a little better, but I wouldn't trade her for the world. So good luck!!

[DMK]

Assuming you are equally capable of riding both a made or green horse and doing them justice (these are big "assumptions" for all of us), what do you prefer? The journey or the destination?

I've bought along a few green beans, but my main man Robbie, my show horse is 17 and I've owned him since he was 3. We know each other like the back of our hand - or hoof as the case may be. I joke that we are like an old married couple - not only do we know how to save each other's butt, we also know how to push each other's buttons in ways so subtle tha tinnocent bystanders can't see the subtext of the conversation. ;)

That said, last August I bought a yearling and am now bringing him along and I am enjoying every minute of it. It has reminded me, that as much fun as showing a made horse is, I will always enjoy the journey more than the destination.

So what kind of person are you?

[goeslikestink]

[QUOTE=kellyb;3945781]I'm going to try and spare you the long story (I'm a rambler, you can thank me later). Basically I am looking for a new horse and I can NOT decide whether I want a prospect/greenie to work with, or if I want to buy something that's already made. I'm not talking like A show/world show rated made - but well broke/packer type of horse. I'm not working with a huge budget, but with the market the way it is, your dollar goes pretty far now a days...

It's easy to say just go with the one you fall in love with...but I fall in love with/see potential in every horse, so that's not going to cut it :lol: I can do the training myself, so it would just be costing me time, not money.

We're all horse people, we all know the pros and cons of greenie vs. made horse...The greenie would save me 50%-75% in purchase price...but the made horse I could just relax, enjoy and go show tomorrow with...the greenie I could train myself, the way I wanted...but the made horse is...made :D

sounds like your a novice rider by what you said so a green horse is out
as you need to be able to be a decent rider to bring the horse on
if your not a confident capberble rider then forget green horse


you need a horse thats been there and done that you can get on and just go so schoolie type that matches your riding skills

it really depends on how honest you are with yourself and what you are confident in doing
dont lie to yourself once you have not lied to self then stick to the comitted
type of horse your looking for - its really no good thinking one can do a green horse if they have got the knoweldge to back it up

[eponacelt]

To me, it's really a question only you can answer. That needs to be based on if you actually *enjoy* working with green horses. Would you have more satisfaction in the long run knowing that you did most of the training with the horse, or does it not matter?

I think this is the key. I LOVE my youngster, but I have to say, if I had it to do all over again, I'd probably opt for something a little more made. I've had tons of stress over training, and just baby stuff. But some people don't sweat that stuff and some really, truly enjoy it. If you really enjoy it, then go with the greenie. But be prepared to have to be REALLY consistent in your riding style and schedule in order to get anywhere. It may be cheaper up front, but definitely isn't cheaper OR faster in the long run.

[DMK]

It may be cheaper up front, but definitely isn't cheaper OR faster in the long run.

Me and a friend used to call it the "pay as you go" plan. Same cost, different payment schedule. ;)

[Thomas_1]

You didn't say what experience you have of bringing on youngsters?

[yellowbritches]

I prefer green horses for me, though not necessarily for the reasons listed. As I always say, the only baggage I want a horse of mine to have is the baggage I give them...at least then I know what's in the bags! :lol: But that's just me. I really get a lot of enjoyment out of bringing up a youngster. I enjoy them even more once they are going like old pros. For some people, they either don't have the skills, or the energy or desire to bring up a young, green horse, in which case, an older, going horse is ideal.

In any case, yep, it is a buyer's market right now and your money can stretch pretty far. One of our clients just bought a FANTASTIC little horse that would have been at least twice what we paid for her a year or so ago.

[In The Gate]

If you want to start showing and can afford the made horse I see no reason to buy a greenie unless you want the experience of having one and bringing one along.

I bought a green bean because I wanted a fancy A/O Hunter but knew I didn't have the budget to afford one that was already successful at the level I wanted. Even looking for a green horse, it took over a year of searching to find the right horse. I've just started showing him in the A/A's myself, and we have a way to go before we get to the A/O's. He's turning into an incredible horse but it definitely wasn't a quick or easy road to go.

[hunt_jumpfl]

What would YOU enjoy more? Some people would really prefer to be able to just go and show, me...I want a project. I've been leasing a mare from my trainer for a little over a year. When I started riding her she was coming back into work from broodmare duties for a few years. Before her broodmare career she had been started, but didn't have a lot of training. She has come along really well and is getting close to being finished. I realized last week when I started riding a 3 year old that is in for training and very green that I'm ready to move on from the mare I've been leasing. I really adore her and it makes me really sad to think about moving on from her, but I really feel that she is ready for a new rider and I'm ready for a new project. But I know a lot of people who would much rather have a horse that they can just come out and enjoy at home and go and show without the "greenie factor" (even if they have the skill and experience to ride a green horse).

[RockinHorse]

One of each ;)

[kellyb]

Wow, lots of great responses, thanks so much everyone! I'll try and touch on a couple...

Well, can't answer that poll until you write a few sentences on what your *goal* is for this new horse, and time frame. (And sorry if its obvious from past posts, I can't recall right now...) I.e., what discipline are you going to show in, and where do you hope to be riding this horse in 3, or 5 years?

Arcadien

I wish it was as simple as, "I'm kellyb and my discipline is ___". But it's not :) I have so many interests. I have done a little bit of everything except driving, and I truly have no preference. I would be happy doing h/j stuff or all-around AQHA/APHA breed show type stuff, or anything in between. I figured I would just end up doing whatever my future horse is best at...

I don't have a time limit for my goals...I'd be happy to show in a month...I'd be happy to go to schooling shows for a year if I have to...

Assuming you are equally capable of riding both a made or green horse and doing them justice (these are big "assumptions" for all of us), what do you prefer? The journey or the destination?


Well when you put it like that...I guess I am a journey person. I do enjoy both the good and bad that comes with the greenies...any future success is just that more meaningful because I know I've put the time in myself.

One of each ;)

Great plan. Will you help me with the board? :D


I think I am leaning towards the green/unmade horse for now...

[CRJ]

I say greenie :) It's great to watch them come along and see not only their progress but what YOU'VE taught them. Even better when they eventually go on to teach all they now know to a new novice rider and you can look on proudly. For me, that's the reward. Finding that little gem in the rough. It's just not something you can get with a "made" horse. Besides, with all that money you'll be saving, if troubles arise you'll afford some training/lessons! :yes:

[Ecks Marx The Spot]

If you can afford it, I say go with the Made, but I voted Green, since that is what "I" go for. I have never bought a Made horse..... $$ always being a factor, and I enjoy finding Diamonds in the rough....

[ThoroughbredFancy]

In my mind it's more rewarding to show and win on something that you put all your hard work and energy into.

I know it would feel more rewarding to me if I won a class or two on my greenie that I trained then it would be to win on an already made horse.

It's also incredibly rewarding to watch my greenie learn along the way.

And I train him the way I want.

[RockinHorse]

In my mind it's more rewarding to show and win on something that you put all your hard work and energy into.



I buy greenies because they are what I can afford and I enjoy the process. I have some friends that have bought very nice made horses. I do not think that they put any less work and energy into it than I do.

[PiaffePlease]

I voted made horse because all Ive ever ridden (with the exception of one) has been a greenie. Ive been the one thats turned him into a made horse. Ive gotten tired of starting over each time. None of these horses were mine, so it didnt really make it worth it.

The horse that I rode that was a made horse was awesome. I learned alot and was able to focus more on my goals than the horse's because he had been there, done that.

Greenies are nice because they are typically cheaper, but I prefer a made horse if I can afford it.

[CrazyDog]

I've said greenie, but it depends on how green! A green horse with the basics of walk, trot, canter and well handled with some initial exposure to whatever discipline you want to do is really what I mean.

I'm a fairly average amateur rider with ten years riding experience and I bought my first young horse nearly two years ago. He was a 'young' 5 year old with the basics I mention above. It has taken a lot of work and patience but he is now a lovely 7 year-old I can take confidently into the ring and know he will perform for me.

If I hadn't moved to the UK, I'm sure I wouldn't have bought a greenie for myself. However, that's what people here do and if I hadn't, I'd never know how it feels to stand in the lineup after a class and know that I was responsible for that success.