anyone know who bought this lovely pony?

[Dressurfan]

http://www.eurodressage.com/market/equimarket/elite/maccoy.html

I noticed that on the ad for this pony it now states, Sold to the USA. Does anyone know who the lucky buyer of this wonderful Pony is? Congratulaions and good luck with this great looking horse!

[Bugs-n-Frodo]

OMG, I love him! Whomever bought him is a lucky person!

[eurodressage]

Mrs Duran at Gina Davis' stable in California (near San Francisco)

[slc2]

OH MY. And 149 cm, so probably he can go in the big classes.

[Ambrey]

That is one SEXY pony!

[Alterageous]

I tried this pony. I'm glad to see he found an American home!

[Bravestrom]

what a beautiful pony - lucky rider that gets to be his mount.

[butlerfamilyzoo]

Wonder if he'll be available at stud? He might be a nice match for my Welsh Cob mare. Though Cardi is calling her name...

I saw SEVERAL videos of him last summer on youtube, probably more to watch still out there if you want to keep drooling. I remember better ones than these two.

[goodpony]

oh that is so funny, was just thinking what a nice match he would make for one of mine! I remember seeing this video about a year ago...didn't realize he was for sale at the time. And local too!:)

[Donella]

Yeah no doubt, it would be awesome if her were available for breeding. What a real stunner!

[Phaxxton]

He is gorgeous!! Congratulations to his new owner!

I hope his new owner keeps him as nicely color coordinated as his previous owner. :winkgrin::lol:

[Perfect Pony]

Am I the only one who doesn't like this pony? :confused: He just looks weird and tense, as well as uncomfortable and unhappy in the video.

I hope the new owner backs off a little bit.

[Ginger]

I'm with you, Perfect Pony... Lots of front action, nothing behind. Very tight back. Lovely pony though.

[Perfect Pony]

I'm with you, Perfect Pony... Lots of front action, nothing behind. Very tight back. Lovely pony though.

Yes, I should have added that he is possibly a very nice pony, and cute as a button. But it drives me absolutely bonkers the way cute and talented horses and ponies are pushed. I see so many and it breaks my heart.

[goodpony]

According to the Ad the pony is nine years old.

[Dressurfan]

:confused:
I'm with you, Perfect Pony... Lots of front action, nothing behind. Very tight back. Lovely pony though.

Nothing behind?? This is a pony being ridden by a child, how much more engagement do you expect a child to be able to create? Is it cruelty to horses that 90% of american hunter ponies go around less engaged and more on the forehand than this pony?

"But it drives me absolutely bonkers the way cute and talented horses and ponies are pushed"

Pushed?? This is a 8/9 year old pony doing FEI pony level which is second level. Second level is too much for a nine year old? Are you aware that the Developing horse Grand Prix is for 7-9 year old horses? Even if that is cruel can you really justify saying second level for a 9 year old is cruel???

I'd like to ad that the rider has very nice quiet hands and praises her pony frequently in the videos. I am sure he will be cherished in his new home for the wonderful pony that he is.

[Ambrey]

:confused:


Nothing behind?? This is a pony being ridden by a child, how much more engagement do you expect a child to be able to create? Is it cruelty to horses that 90% of american hunter ponies go around less engaged and more on the forehand than this pony?



It seems like the entire paradigm of the dressage pony would be different, because finding a kid who could manage the level of impulsion in a high end FEI dressage horse would be quite a challenge- it's hard enough to find experienced adults who can ride them to their full potential.

I can't see how that kind of power would be a benefit if there is nobody capable of riding it.

[slc2]

Oh the hens are sure cackling today! There sure is a lot of high and mighty talk going on here.

Fact is, someone who thinks this 9 yr old, second/third (Pony FEI) level horse is 'pushed' when he is exhibiting a beautiful active working trot and extended trot, and practically kicking himself in the belly, he is so good behind, when someone thinks he isn't 'engaged' enough, someone's eyes need glasses, maybe a tune up, and probably some education.

I don't agree with dressur with 'how much engagement do you expect from a child rider'.

This rider rides better than 99.999 % of people in America. There is nothing wrong with how the kid is riding, there is something wrong with how the viewer views.

This horse is going very, very well. A horse is not 'pushed' to be doing 2nd/3rd level at age NINE!

A horse is not being 'pushed' when he moves energetically and is able to lift his foreleg due to the lightness of the shoulders from a strongly driving hind quarter and natural talent and impeccable balance. If you saw the SAME lightness at the Spanish Riding School or at Mafra, you'd be ooohing and aaahing over it. Because it's a WARMBLOOD, it's a tragic example of the greedy world of competition and corrupt blah blah blah.

We do a p*** poor job of educating people about dressage in America, and a p*** poor job of training people how to ride dressage, and we know that when we see people finding fault and picking apart a picture like this.

People LOVE the pleasure-riding-plus-intellectual-talk brand of 'Dressage Lite' that is so, so popular in America, and they'd rather continue deluding themselves with THAT and criticizing people who are riding far better, than learn better themselves.

As far as the 'paradigm', Ambrey, this is one of the best moving horses and best riders you will ever see. This is a fantastic example of an animal moving correctly, energetically, and with great balance and natural talent, performing beautifully for a very correct, well balanced rider.

Oh how tragic, the child this pony is for just can't POSSIBLY ride him properly, such power will be so wasted, how tragic!

You don't even know if the horse was BOUGHT for a child to ride! He'd be fantastic for a small adult as well! And plenty of people are getting over-14.2-h sport horses from the euro pony world and knocking the US competition world on its rear. MANY of these horses are tall enough to go in all the big classes and are basically just small horses, with beautiful gaits, great balance and all the potential in the world.

And where, exactly, is our grip on reality? We just saw a video of a SIX YEAR OLD child on a big strong full size horse doing one tempe changes BAREBACK! If kids get good instruction they can ride fantastically, from a very early age.

When twenty somethings are going to the Pan Am games on ponies and nineteen year old girls are going to the world championships - oh wait! That already happened! And in fact, it has been for YEARS. Christilot Boylen and Cindy Ishoy were riding at the international levels when they weren't even TWENTY. When do you think they started in order to reach that point at 18 or 19?

Don't fall into the disingenuous habit of criticizing just because you're jealous of what someone else has, or trying to justify why YOU aren't at that level.

Who ever gets the ride on this little fellow is going to be a very, very happy rider, and if they aren't a perfect rider NOW, they sure will be given a great opportunity to develop as a rider with a horse like this!

[Ginger]

:lol: I said it before, I'll say it again: lovely pony. His new owner is a lucky person.

I will not comment on a child's riding on a BB. But some of us believe the presentation could have been more relaxed and harmonious. If the 'jealous' comment was aimed at me, you are wrong.

And who said anything about cruel? :confused: There was no cruelty shown, and none has been implied.

[Perfect Pony]

:lol: I said it before, I'll say it again: lovely pony. His new owner is a lucky person.

I will not comment on a child's riding on a BB. But some of us believe the presentation could have been more relaxed and harmonious. If the 'jealous' comment was aimed at me, you are wrong.

And who said anything about cruel? :confused: There was no cruelty shown, and none has been implied.

I mentioned I thought it was cruel in many cases I have watched where wonderful horses are pushed. I didn't mean there was any cruelty here, although it might have come out that way.

Sorry, whatever the age of this pony now, he looks tense and unhappy in the video IMO. He looks like he was pushed early on. I know of many promising "upper level prospects" who now at 7-10 years old that have stalled at 2nd level because of tension and brain fry early on. He reminds me of them.

[slc2]

Someone throw these gals some cracked corn, LOL!

I don't see that at all and I am very ready to offer criticism if I see tension, incorrectly working back or hind legs. I think you're seeing what you want to see. I don't believe a dressage horse should be plodding around looking like it was longed for two hours and aced before someone got on him. I do not see tension, I see activity and energy. No rider is perfect, I'd put this one in the category I stated - better than 99.99% of American riders - of any age.

[Hony]

What a nice pony and rider.

[blackhorse6]

Slc2....agree with you again! 99 percent of the riders in the US can't begin to ride like this young girl.. And the pony? He is fabulous! Not using his hindend? You have got to be kidding:eek:

[Lyss]

I love this guy! I've saw his youtube videos months ago and at that time tried to find out any information as anyone offering frozen semen and now he's in my neighborhood! I look forward to seeing him in person at shows hopefully and perhaps they will offer him for breeding sometime in the future. My mare is already in foal to the wonderful Welsh cob stallion Cardi, due next month - Cardi is another proven successful FEI performer at eight years old. Love to watch the big guys but dream to ride these talented ponies.

[Perfect Pony]

fwiw, I am not talking about the horses body, my critique comes from watching the pony's head and expression. When I see a horse go like that it just makes me personally cringe. I suppose I can watch it over and over and get used to it and tell myself it's not that bad, so I can see how others can just see "energy" and say "oh how amazing and wonderful" but my first impression is to cringe.

[Tamara in TN]

http://www.eurodressage.com/market/equimarket/elite/maccoy.html

I noticed that on the ad for this pony it now states, Sold to the USA. Does anyone know who the lucky buyer of this wonderful Pony is? Congratulaions and good luck with this great looking horse!

more pics here:

http://www.hestegalleri.dk/html/gal_visbil.asp?ID=18504

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/caminas+maccoy



what a nice cob

best

[Couture TB]

I think he is lovely. A little swishy with his tail at times yes. But you have to realize there is a reason that people are importing these ponies. QUALITY. We just don't have enough of it here with the ponies. Our poines are getting nicer but still are not on the same level as theirs.

[slc2]

"just makes me personally cringe"

You really need to consider that maybe you need to educate your eye. There is nothing here that is particularly worthy of cringeing. This is a happy, active, energetic horse, ears forward, lifting feet clearly and correctly, responding eagerly to his young rider. It is clearly NOT a dead head slogging around. Nothing is every 100% perfect, but this is not really something you should be in pain watching.

If you don't like this, post some videos and pictures of what you DO like. THAT should be interesting!

[Tamara in TN]

I think he is lovely. A little swishy with his tail at times yes. But you have to realize there is a reason that people are importing these ponies. QUALITY. We just don't have enough of it here with the ponies. Our poines are getting nicer but still are not on the same level as theirs.

well we're working on it;)

best

[Couture TB]

well we're working on it;)

best



Did you buy this lovely little guy? Yes, the ponies in the US have come along way for H/J and even some eventing but we need to work on the quality of training on our dressage ponies. Doesn't help that it is harder to find a trainer to ride the little buggers:lol:

[Tamara in TN]

Did you buy this lovely little guy? Yes, the ponies in the US have come along way for H/J and even some eventing but we need to work on the quality of training on our dressage ponies. Doesn't help that it is harder to find a trainer to ride the little buggers:lol:

no and I am jealous ;) but I do keep a cob or two...

[Couture TB]

I remember at an event a long long long time ago a woman had her dressage cob going BN. WOW. I love the cobs as they have such a nice temperment and are built to carry a small adult.

You can always breed to him, I know if I had a cob I would

[butlerfamilyzoo]

If you dont think there are good ones in the US to compare to this guy, you guys need to open your eyes. Have they been ridden to this level yet? Maybe not a lot of them yet... But hello, he's a GORGEOUS Sec D welsh cob... We have SEVERAL GORGEOUS Sec D welsh cobs here in the US. Cardi being one of them. The hard part is that people over look them as dressage ponies. Why, i havent a clue. I think its the part that they are not German Riding Pony, or British Riding Pony, etc... But fact of the matter is, most of our Sec Ds are imported or from imported stock, we just call them what they are and dont put them in fancy expensive registries... (And they dont come with the price tags of those GRPs etc...)

More of them are hitting the show ring and proving themselves. Open your eyes guys! :)

There is a "softer" looking video of this guy on youtube if you do a search, him doing a freestyle kur.

Beautiful rider, i hope she didnt sell this talented guy thinking she has outgrown him. A shame to let him go. Seems like the horse of a lifetime. Happy to hear he is coming to the US. Hope he'll be available to some of us mare owners, though i have Cardi on the top of my list first... :)

Cobs are incredible little horses! And about 80% of the ones i have seen in person have every bit of potential to be like this guy!

[egontoast]

never NEVER disagree with slc or she'll call fowl.

[Couture TB]

If you dont think there are good ones in the US to compare to this guy, you guys need to open your eyes. Have they been ridden to this level yet? Maybe not a lot of them yet... But hello, he's a GORGEOUS Sec D welsh cob... We have SEVERAL GORGEOUS Sec D welsh cobs here in the US. Cardi being one of them. The hard part is that people over look them as dressage ponies. Why, i havent a clue. I think its the part that they are not German Riding Pony, or British Riding Pony, etc... But fact of the matter is, most of our Sec Ds are imported or from imported stock, we just call them what they are and dont put them in fancy expensive registries... (And they dont come with the price tags of those GRPs etc...)

More of them are hitting the show ring and proving themselves. Open your eyes guys! :)

There is a "softer" looking video of this guy on youtube if you do a search, him doing a freestyle kur.

Beautiful rider, i hope she didnt sell this talented guy thinking she has outgrown him. A shame to let him go. Seems like the horse of a lifetime. Happy to hear he is coming to the US. Hope he'll be available to some of us mare owners, though i have Cardi on the top of my list first... :)

Cobs are incredible little horses! And about 80% of the ones i have seen in person have every bit of potential to be like this guy!



I should have worded what I wrote better. I think we are behind in getting the dressage ponies like the cobs bred here into the show ring with people that can show them to their true potential. I personally prefer the cob over the German Riding Pony *ducking to avoid the fall out of that statement :lol:*

[grayarabpony]

The girl looks like she's having a lot of trouble sitting his gaits, especially in the first video.

[narcisco]

Love the pony, love the rider, loved the 2nd/3rd level freestyle ride. It was quite nice.

I believe this is a case where the rider has indeed outgrown the pony. Her legs are so long she has to crink her leg up to use her spurs. I'm sure this impacts her seat and causes some tension in the pony.

[Bighorse326]

If you dont think there are good ones in the US to compare to this guy, you guys need to open your eyes. Have they been ridden to this level yet? Maybe not a lot of them yet... But hello, he's a GORGEOUS Sec D welsh cob... We have SEVERAL GORGEOUS Sec D welsh cobs here in the US.

So true! I can name one right now that has a VERY similar pedigree to Mccoy born and bred on US soil. Please just give us a little more time to train would ya' ;) Cardi and his team have been doing an excellent job promoting the breed, and I am excited to see what Mccoy will bring.

...we just call them what they are and dont put them in fancy expensive registries... (And they dont come with the price tags of those GRPs etc...)
Very, Very, well put!!!!

-Amy

[Icecapade]

I don't think its cruel, I don't think its bad... but he isn't my cup of tea.
I enjoyed it to a point... I saw a little more sea saw than I would expect with a FEI bla bla attached to his name, but it could be he was trained to that level not the rider... I don't know.

What bothered me most was every single picture I saw (I tired to poke around but I'm tired and gave up) was his entire lower leg is covered, that kind of bothers me... a very big whats wrong, regardless of that, he did make someone VERY happy. I wouldn't have turned him down for the right price no way!


It gives me hope though for my guy seeing as the unstated currant is bigger = better. Although it seems to be downsizing a big. =) Rock the ponies!!!

[Whisper]

I think some people are confusing the FEI *pony* level with the regular FEI levels (I1 and above). Anyway, I agree with some of the others that he mostly isn't tracking up in the first video, though his hind end is active (it looks more "up" than "out," kind of like what is desireable in saddleseat, though not quite to that extent). He looks much better in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_AFdDzCHg0 which also has some lateral work (he looks to me like he might be a little too bent through the neck in the lateral work, though not to an extreme extent). Overall, very cute pony, seems to have a lot to offer, and I'm a big fan of pony stallions who actually *do* stuff instead of just resting on their pedigree until they have get who are old enough to go out and show. It was also nice seeing him in the same ring with at least one other horse, and next to a ring with a group lesson going on - really shows that he does his job despite distractions.

Icecapade, the kur video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nb45P0TKcv0 shows him without any boots on. I think it's fairly common for horses to go in regular rides/lessons with leg protection.

[exvet]

I too am fond of this pony and though I have a welsh cob or two (or 7) I have my eyes set on breeding to another. However I wouldn't rule out this guy at some point in the future.

I also agree that I think some are confusing FEI tests (PSG on up) with FEI pony tests, a completely different kettle of fish.

As for welsh cobs making it up the levels, well count one of mine in the line up too. 'Cause we won our debut at PSG [at a recognized dressage show] on Saturday - low 60's but we bested the amateur and open riders all on warmbloods with our AMERICAN bred Welsh Cob - Can you say WALKIN' ON CLOUD 9! WOO HOO!

[Dressage Art]

Exvet, huge congratulations to you!!! You did it girl!!!

[exvet]

Thanks DA. I now know that he CAN do it :D.

[Ambrey]

As for welsh cobs making it up the levels, well count one of mine in the line up too. 'Cause we won our debut at PSG [at a recognized dressage show] on Saturday - low 60's but we bested the amateur and open riders all on warmbloods with our AMERICAN bred Welsh Cob - Can you say WALKIN' ON CLOUD 9! WOO HOO!

Holy cow, you GO girl! Congratulations to you and your boy!

[Tamara in TN]

As for welsh cobs making it up the levels, well count one of mine in the line up too. 'Cause we won our debut at PSG [at a recognized dressage show] on Saturday - low 60's but we bested the amateur and open riders all on warmbloods with our AMERICAN bred Welsh Cob - Can you say WALKIN' ON CLOUD 9! WOO HOO!


bravo !!!!!!!!! don't forget us mere mortals on the way up:lol::lol::lol:


T.

[exvet]

bravo !!!!!!!!! don't forget us mere mortals on the way up

Now how can I? My next "star" carries your prefix. Barring any unforseen injuries or accidents to cob or rider, I think the next one will go even farther since he was blessed with better conformation and appears to have the same heart and disposition.

BTW T got more welsh gossip from the show no less. I'll PM you.....or maybe I'll just hold it until I see you :winkgrin:

[Tamara in TN]

bravo !!!!!!!!! don't forget us mere mortals on the way up

Now how can I? My next "star" carries your prefix. Barring any unforseen injuries or accidents to cob or rider, I think the next one will go even farther since he was blessed with better conformation and appears to have the same heart and disposition.

BTW T got more welsh gossip from the show no less. I'll PM you.....or maybe I'll just hold it until I see you :winkgrin:

gossip... at a horse show ??? never:lol:

you better PM...we leave for N FL in the morning...gonna be in Fernadina and over in Newberry...I could not bear the wait ;)

T.

[SportCobs]

Im new here but couldnt resist commenting on Dressage Cobs:)
I breed most all my mares to Cardi and have been selling his foals to serious dressage riders of a certain age group( Smile) who want the movement and power with out the pitfalls. Cardi has certainly filled the bill whether he is crossed on TBs or Warmbloods and yes I even have a couple of Large Welsh Cob mares I breed him to. Oh and they sure do like to jump too!
The foals are all super easy the live with and train and so far all have exhibited his signature way of going, big trot and lots of suspension.
Cardi's rider and trainer Jessica Wisdom is not short...I think 5.8 ish and I think they make a great match.
I have watched him from they day he was dropped off to be started as a three year old and he is very happy in his work whether its dressage or jumping or out on the trail. In fact he pouts if he gets too much time off:) He is showing FEI as an eight year old as well
Here is a link to a recent Debbie MacDonald clinic he and Jessica were in. Debbie absolutely loved him!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Is4SpBp5aAU&feature=related

Thanks for letting pipe up:)

~Ginger

[Ambrey]

God he's gorgeous.

[exvet]

who want the movement and power with out the pitfalls.

I'm sorry but I can't let this one go. I have no doubt that both the stallion that started this thread and Cardi produce some wonderful get. I am also sure that you and many of the breeders who have or will use either of these stallions are careful in mare selection and thus produce what they desire. However, I have been contacted by more than a few breeders/owners of welsh cobs who want to know if I can or will "take them for a giveaway price" either because of issues that they've had with their previous training or because they're too sensitive for most riders. I've had to tell them including one this weekend that my "Inn" is full. The TD at the show this weekend came up to me to discuss welsh and welsh cobs. Her comments included that she's considering buying one and even went to the AGM but was not sure if it was the movement or the feathers that bothered her and was starting to think the feathers 'cause my welsh cob was body clipped.....so the whole time I'm thinking "then why the hell are you even considering a welsh cob"? She went on to say that we "cob" breeders should be happy 'cause she believes we're going to see a lot more middle aged and middle aged plus ladies wanting to downsize to "easier" less intimidating mounts that still have the gaits. Of course true to my reputation amongst most in the welsh world who do not care for me, I informed her that what I had for sale would not suit her, too hot and then was more than happy to give her my experience as well as my opinion that she should look for a section B or better yet a GRP. It's the claim that welsh cobs and their crosses come without pitfalls that has filled my backyard with FREE yet talented welsh cobs. They are not for everyone. Those interested in welsh cobs need to do their homework. While the two stallions are wonderful ambassadors for dressage and the breed, I fear that the misnomer of the welsh cob as a breed being easier and without the pitfalls will increase the list of those who have been screwed up to put it frankly. I can put up Gallod Morgan Henry as a perfect example of what happens when trainers (no less than 6 well respected ones) believe that claim/your claim (not unlike many breeders) to be true and react "accordingly" when things don't go according to plan. Again I'm sure what Ginger produces is amateur friendly but not all welsh cobs are - simple fact and I have the proof as do many breeders who discuss this behind the curtain so-to-speak. Sorry for the rant but this is a huge pet peeve of mine and it's 'cause of the baggage I've had to deal with from those having purchased welsh cobs with the wrong impression.

[butlerfamilyzoo]

Exvet- I have to agree with you. I grew up with arabians and have found my cob to be much the same in temperament... Not spooky or psycho by any means (not that any of the arabs i ever had were that way either!) However, VERY light to the aids, not very forgiving if you pound on her or get in a tug of war, and sensitive in temperament. They are very loving, try very hard for you types, but i do feel if i ever got on my mare's bad side, it would be BAD, meaning either some type of explosion, or her just shutting down.

I've also found that most ammy's i know could not handle the power. Heck, the canter on my mare right now scares the bajeebas out of me its so huge... Of course, she's still learning.

In the right hands, cobs are fantastic and i highly recommend them. But if you are new to horses, new to the sport, or have never dealt with a similar sensitive type of breed... I would point you to a different pony breed.

All that being said... I'll never own a different breed again.

[SportCobs]

EXVET.
My post mentioned that I breed for serious dressage riders. I am very careful who I place my foals with and I would certainly agree that Cobs like most horses do not suffer fools.
I mentioned how easy they are to raise because I have many friends who breed Warmbloods and as a mature woman myself I feel much more comfortable breeding Cobs and crosses then I would many of the Warmbloods I see at USDF shows.
I too have seen many ruined Cobs out there and blame much of it on the puppy mill mentality of breeding and selling without much thought of where those foals end up and how much experience the new owner has period.
I am not sure why a Section B or a GRP would be any more likely to do well in a bad situation.
I can say that there are some bloodlines with in the section Ds that are more tractable then others just like any breed. My foals are not intended for beginners as they are sensitive and very intelligent thus could certainly, like many horses be ruined in the wrong hands.
Not wishing to start a rant just commenting on a breed I am passionate about:)
Ginger

[exvet]

I am not sure why a Section B or a GRP would be any more likely to do well in a bad situation.

I do not think that either would do better than a welsh cob in a bad situation unless it were a very forgiving soul, which I suppose is always possible. I am also very aware of the more tractable welsh cob individuals and lines. I actually do have a few of those too (TG). My reason for suggesting to this particular individual that they should consider the two breeds/types mentioned is that neither have a "ton of hair" and might have less hock/knee that she wasn't sure if she liked or not. She also commented on the preference for more refinement (don't get me started on that as a welsh cob person).

Obviously I too am passionate about the breed and am getting tired of the "problems" that arise as a result of failure to match the appropriate personality of individual to mount, lack of good trainers who can handle the more sensitive types properly, and yes the more indiscriminate breeding practices that have occurred. I realize that it happens within all breeds but for the number of welsh cobs on this continent it just seems to be a more slippery slope when breeders/sellers don't take the aforementioned into consideration. Obviously you do and I personally thank you as one who adores this breed. I agree with butterfamilyzoo in that those who have experience with other "more sensitive" breeds probably have more realistic expectations and experience that I think are more in line with some of the welsh cob individuals who have come to live with me and thus make more suitable matches. It's a fine line to walk when you want to promote the breed and appreciate what other's have done (like Cardi's team, Chime in his day, etc) proving that the ability is there but also know what else lurks. It's no different than what I ran into in the Arab world but......I think it's more hidden due to the smaller numbers and continued "mystique" if you will about the breed (welsh cobs more so) here in states. I also think it's all too natural/human nature to jump to the conclusion that because of the size the welsh cob will be "easier" as if any of us, regardless of size, can overpower or out muscle a welsh cob - yet that is the "conclusion" that many bring to me when they ask what if anything I have for sale. If it has a tractable mind and forgiving nature, heck it doesn't matter what size it is....................

As the two stallions mentioned have proven when there is a true partnership and bond as well as a desire and love to perform, the possibilities are endless. I just feel that those of us who extoll the virtues of the breed need to make sure that we represent the breed in away that ensures that fewer of the more sensitive individuals end up in the wrong hands. It's too easy to get mesmerized by those of us gushing about our passion and why I stated very clearly that those interested in the breed need to do their homework and stand by that.

[Tamara in TN]

[QUOTE=SportCobs;3952414]EXVET.

I too have seen many ruined Cobs out there and blame much of it on the puppy mill mentality of breeding and selling without much thought of where those foals end up and how much experience the new owner has period.


I believe you may be misunderstanding what EV is saying....(noting that she has replied now again...)

it does not take a farm making 30 cobs a year (I'd like to see a cob farm that size however ) to make a streaky,sour, rotten apple who is inclined to buck....just as both brothers and his mother did....

but so long as no one ever says "his dam was a streaky, rotten, sour apple" then the new owners have no idea....it can take just one mare to pass that along and until the babies are under saddle and perhaps 5-7 years old then no one knows....do they ?

all the being a professional in the world, will not and cannot over come inherent mental flaws in an animal....in fact the pro riders will dump them off quickly...riding enough horses in their time to know by feel and experience that this is a waste of time and perhaps dangerous...

finally,there is a great impulse to "beat" something, either into or out of a pony due to his size....while beating a 17.3hh in anger till it bleeds may give someone pause for their own safety,the same person would lash away at something say 13hh 14 hh just because they can as was noticed in that awful
video from Europe....truss them up and flail them alive...it's no biggie:mad:


I call it Shetland Syndrome...it's the same mismanagement and cruelty that makes 10hh terrors of perfectly good and kind Shetlands....

regards,

[dalpal]

LOVE COBS!!!!!!!!!! We have several nice ones at our barn.

I think this little guy is SUPER NICE!

[slc2]

Absolutely fantastic! Some of our Cob breeders need to give themselves a pat on the back. WOW!

[hluing]

I think he is lovely. A little swishy with his tail at times yes. But you have to realize there is a reason that people are importing these ponies. QUALITY. We just don't have enough of it here with the ponies. Our poines are getting nicer but still are not on the same level as theirs.

I agree that some of the ponies bred in Europe are simply fabulous...but give some credit to American breeders like myself who are following the European model, taking advantage of frozen semen and high quality mares, and producing very promising young stock. You do not have to go to Germany to find ponies of that quality. Of course you do have to look around more to find it here;)

[goodpony]

Just my two cents but I find this guy very charming because he looks to have some genuine Pony Character/Quality: I imagine he will have great appeal to the judges in the ring especially because he is Pony Like. How do others feel about the canter work shown in the recently posted videos. Does it seem a little disconnected?

[Whisper]

I am not sure why a Section B or a GRP would be any more likely to do well in a bad situation.
I haven't been able to ride or drive any Welsh Cobs, but I took lessons from someone who worked with several of them, and got to watch them occasionally - absolutely lovely critters! I rode a Section B Welsh gelding who was only 4 years old, but was super level-headed, especially given his age. We went out on the trails regularly, and he was fine with strollers, small children, bikes (even ones coming right at us quickly), dogs, etc. He didn't bat an eyelash at lawn sprinklers, pigs, llamas, cows, donkeys, mules, or minis pulling carts, all of which we regularly encountered at that barn. His version of spooking was the "stop and stare." I'm getting the impression that while some individual cobs may be similar, on average, they aren't quite as "whatever" about scary things. Of course, individual horses and various bloodlines do make a difference, but some breeds *in general* tend to be calmer than others.

[butlerfamilyzoo]

Whisper- My cob spooks at nothing. I cant speak for the entire cob population... But from my cob experience, spooking is not the issue.

Its just being "hotter", more go than whoa if you are not light and aware that you are on a sensitive mount. Cobs can take you VERY off guard by their huge movement they have hiding in those smaller bodies.

To me, sensitive does not mean spooky. Its a light sided, soft mouthed horse that feels every slight shift you make in the saddle. For the right rider, it makes for an easy ride as you arent kicking the tar out of it and exhausted just trying to keep it going... For the rider that is used to that and attempts to ride a cob in such a way, they will end up dead. :)

Sensitive also has to do with the frame of mind. Like all the screwed up arabs out there, they didnt start out that way. They were ruined by people who didnt know how to work with the sensitive nature. They want to please, they have that desire built in, but they dont tollerate being beat on, especially if they lost the reason why they are being beat on in the first place. To me, a sensitive horse is the easiest to train. I worked with QHs once upon a time and i got so SICK of the DUH syndrom i just couldnt do it. I'm sure there are bloodlines in QHs that run a little hotter too, but that is a breed that is tollerant and forgiving, or just forgets, one of the two.

Not saying my girl hasnt gotten a good wack now and then for the right reasons... :) And she knew what she got it for.

But spooky? I have not had that issue. I was trail riding my mare as a 3yr old, her 5th time with a rider, bareback on a 2hr walking trail ride at a state park with strange horses... She never spooked. Never balked, never looked. She politely plodded along like she had done it 8 million times before.

[exvet]

I agree with just about all butlerfamilyzoo has said except that like all breeds there are exceptions. I do have/had a few welsh cobs who spook but they all do it in place. At least those I've had/have are as quick to recover as they are to startle. It does unnerve some though because they have so much power that it can feel like a mini explosion. Yet, having said that, she explained the "sensitivity" that can be seen in a lot of the breed very well. I've written my explanation/interpretation of the breed's character before - an acute sense of fairness, a strong sense of self-preservation, and definite overachievers. If you develop a strong bond with one and gain their trust there is nothing they won't do for you - of course you have to ask correctly :winkgrin: The other challenge is once they learn something, if it's wrong, it is very difficult (though not impossible) for them to unlearn it. There are of course a few individuals who are much less inspired but I find them to be a smaller percentage of the population I've met personally.

Again I really like the pony that started this thread. I think some of what is seen as tension (is real) and the disconnect that Lisa mentioned seeing in the canter is the fact that like many welsh cobs he's trying so hard/too hard and despite that fact that the kid who I've seen riding this pony in multiple tapes is a nice rider is probably over riding this guy just a tad. It's only human nature. She's riding in a sales tape and trying to show him off - and he's trying to comply. I've seen other clips which show a much more relaxed and balanced mover.

As for commending some of the breeders - yes, there are many who do a good job but there are also those who don't represent all that there is to see/ride either and unfortunately I tend to see more of that aftermath.

[Ambrey]

Well, being forward thinking and energetic is a good thing for a dressage horse- having that without an explosive temperment is fabulous :)

[unbridledoaks]

He is a lovely pony and congratulations to his new owners! His breeding says alot for his movement and his type. He probably has an amazing mind under saddle too. We have the same lines on our farm, and talk about amazing to train.

I LOVE Welsh cobs, being an owner, trainer and breeder of them. They are wonderful animals. Our stallion has been probably the most amazing horse, yes he is a horse, stands 15 hands, that I have ever trained. Rode him last year 4 to 6 months pregnant at his first set of shows, green, just started under saddle, and he did amazing. Now I'm riding his daughter, who is just the same. I look forward to this year with 5 cobs going in Dressage!

[goodpony]

I do think there is something to different lines possessing different traits especially with respect to type and character. I breed Connemara Ponies---who are generally known for very tractable temperaments--though not typically ultra extravagant movement. Still with-in my breed there are certain lines that are quite notorious for having not-your-typical character and temperaments. And there are certain lines also that are really quite extravagant movers....though sometimes these ponies (in my opinion) don't seem to be readily identifiable with respect to breed type (but I also think this might be true of some cobs as well as other breeds)

I expect this is probably true of most breeds with different permutations coming out in different breeding programs. Its not exactly one size/type fits all....and just because its shorter than the average warmblood doesn't necessarily make it foolproof. I would have to guess it might be closer to the opposite....at least with respect to the ponies I've known personally-- they are often twice as smart as the average horse. This in itself is both a blessing and an obstacle in some ways-- as it is VERY easy to push a good natured pony along too quickly and end up with attitude problems.

sorry I do think Ive gone off topic, thanks for letting me ramble.

[goodpony]

I do think there is something to different lines possessing different traits especially with respect to type and character. I breed Connemara Ponies---who are generally known for very tractable temperaments--though not typically ultra extravagant movement. Still with-in my breed there are certain lines that are quite notorious for having not-your-typical character and temperaments. And there are certain lines also that are really quite extravagant movers....though sometimes these ponies (in my opinion) don't seem to be readily identifiable with respect to breed type (but I also think this might be true of some cobs as well as other breeds)

I expect this is probably true of most breeds with different permutations coming out in different breeding programs. Its not exactly one size/type fits all....and just because its shorter than the average warmblood doesn't necessarily make it foolproof. I would have to guess it might be closer to the opposite....at least with respect to the ponies I've known personally-- they are often twice as smart as the average horse. This in itself is both a blessing and an obstacle in some ways-- as it is VERY easy to push a good natured pony along too quickly and end up with attitude problems.

sorry I do think Ive gone off topic, thanks for letting me ramble.

[goodpony]

I do think there is something to different lines possessing different traits especially with respect to type and character. I breed Connemara Ponies---who are generally known for very tractable temperaments--though not typically ultra extravagant movement. Still with-in my breed there are certain lines that are quite notorious for having not-your-typical character and temperaments. And there are certain lines also that are really quite extravagant movers....though sometimes these ponies (in my opinion) don't seem to be readily identifiable with respect to breed type (but I also think this might be true of some cobs as well as other breeds)

I expect this is probably true of most breeds with different permutations coming out in different breeding programs. Its not exactly one size/type fits all....and just because its shorter than the average warmblood doesn't necessarily make it foolproof. I would have to guess it might be closer to the opposite....at least with respect to the ponies I've known personally-- they are often twice as smart as the average horse. This in itself is both a blessing and an obstacle in some ways-- as it is VERY easy to push a good natured pony along too quickly and end up with attitude problems.

sorry I do think Ive gone off topic, thanks for letting me ramble.

[InsideLeg2OutsideRein]

SportCobs -- your stallion is lovely! Must have been nice to get those compliments from Debbie, too :D

[SportCobs]

Oh I wish:) Actually he is not mine I simply breed to him. He is owned by a Partnership, Cindy Miller of Winterlake Welsh and his trainer and rider Jessica Wisdom of Equilibrium Equestrian.

Thank you for the complement though, I will pass it on

[tempichange]

I love my cob mare, who is doing 99 percent of the third level and schooling most of the 4th level/PSG (again changes). I'll agree with the hotter temperament, but they still have their heads screwed on straight.

I'm really happy that this guy is coming to the US. I'll save an embryo for him. But the mare's first is the now very famous Cardi;)

[Sixth Sense]

Well, I think this is a lovely pony and he is definitely being well ridden. I do not see anything unhappy or tense about this pony at all just an active energetic guy. Best of luck to whoever bought him. They are lucky to have found such a nice pony!

[SportCobs]

How exciting Kelly!
Is she in foal for this year or are you breeding this year? What is her breeding?
I am foal watching my first of the year right now due some time around April 6. She went two weeks early last time so I just dont trust her.
I cant wait!!!!
You will not be disappointed with a Cardi foal. I have really enjoyed all of mine:)

[tempichange]

How exciting Kelly!
Is she in foal for this year or are you breeding this year? What is her breeding?
I am foal watching my first of the year right now due some time around April 6. She went two weeks early last time so I just dont trust her.
I cant wait!!!!
You will not be disappointed with a Cardi foal. I have really enjoyed all of mine:)

Breeding actually in 2010, my ET Recep mare is occupado'ed with her own foal, and I want my finances to recover before I endeavor to do something this large again.

I honestly can't wait, I'm really excited.

[Whisper]

butlerfamilyzoo, I completely understand/agree with you on the sensitivity thing - I just have tended to think of "hot" as being spooky/looky/reactive. I'm in the advanced beginner/beginning intermediate part of the rider spectrum, and I strongly prefer the more sensitive, forward-thinking types, but who are also patient and generous. Usually they are somewhat older, so they're pretty been-there-done-that, and seem to really enjoy their job. I suppose it makes sense that some people are surprised by how much power Cobs have, due to their size, but I think they are very powerfully-built horses, even though they tend to be short!

As long as a horse or pony is a good fit/match for me, I'm pretty neutral about breed, color, gender (mare or gelding, of course), and height.

Anyway, back to the OP, I hope I'll get to see this fellow at some of the shows, since he's local. I'm not sure which barn he is at, since I'm familiar with a "Gina Duran" who has a stable in this area, but not "Gina Davis." I wish him and his owner/trainer/rider well, whoever they may be, and I definitely think that it's wonderful that we're getting to see more lovely dressage pony-sized stallions out here, who are proving that they can *do*, not just breed.

[tempichange]

... and I definitely think that it's wonderful that we're getting to see more lovely dressage pony-sized stallions out here, who are proving that they can *do*, not just breed.

More often than not, it's the stallions and the geldings who are competing. We need more of a performance mare base.

[butlerfamilyzoo]

Tempi- I'm working on it! My mare will hit a show the end of April, her first under saddle, just an intro test. I'm shooting for training level this year, but her canter is still a wee bit wacko...

[exvet]

Well Tempi again you and I agree again <sorry if that is not so good - wink>. I wish the breeders would spend plenty of time proving the mares' performance capabilities and work ethic.

And as butlerfamilyzoo, I too am trying to get our mare out there and did compete our other mare until she was completely retired to broodmare status. We're showing the younger one of ours at first level at a recognized show in two weeks. She has some awesome movement but the canter is our "challenge" and I would have to say "wacko" too :winkgrin: but improving. Once she gets that though she will be capable of being competitive at FEI pony. Her lateral work is there.

I hope those near where this stallion, Camina's Maccoy, is now (or his owner of course) keep us posted on how he's doing. He is one I would seriously consider for our mare.

[Sugarbrook]

Just tried to look at the video of the pony and it will not come up. Does anyone have the info? I am curious and just started to read this thread. sandy

[Icecapade]

Well Tempi again you and I agree again <sorry if that is not so good - wink>. I wish the breeders would spend plenty of time proving the mares' performance capabilities and work ethic.

And as butlerfamilyzoo, I too am trying to get our mare out there and did compete our other mare until she was completely retired to broodmare status. We're showing the younger one of ours at first level at a recognized show in two weeks. She has some awesome movement but the canter is our "challenge" and I would have to say "wacko" too :winkgrin: but improving. Once she gets that though she will be capable of being competitive at FEI pony. Her lateral work is there.

I hope those near where this stallion, Camina's Maccoy, is now (or his owner of course) keep us posted on how he's doing. He is one I would seriously consider for our mare.


Coming from the Arab world I find this kind of funny- war mares were the most prized, we have shifted away a tad in the western thinking like everyone else to the stallion, but many traditional preservation breeders still refer to tail female and are more interested in the mare's achievements than the stallions.

But it does seem that more stallions are seen then mares... assuming you throw out useless breeding stock in geldings (hence not male female). hmm interesting stuff.

[butlerfamilyzoo]

Sugarbrook: videos here:
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=Guccitrold&view=videos

[Sugarbrook]

Thanks. Lovely pony.

[tempichange]

Well Tempi again you and I agree again <sorry if that is not so good - wink>. I wish the breeders would spend plenty of time proving the mares' performance capabilities and work ethic.

Glad someone thinks I'm not completely nutters! Its also why I'm a fairly huge supporter of ET. But what I see, and it's unfortunate, is that mares often retire out after first level (8 or 9) to go into their repro careers. I don't agree with this 100 percent (can understand though).

Right now, as I see it, we have a gajillion wonderful pony stallions at our fingertips. Heck we have a gajillion nice stallions period. Some are proven in various circles, and some have just sat around their owner's yards. What we don't have is high performance mares, and we're still barely pushing FEI with stallions. The reason I see behind not competing the mares is that unlike stallions is biological. Mares cannot endlessly produce eggs, nor are they as mobile as stallions.

So, it's my goal to get as many mares as I physically can to the FEI levels. I'd rather have a band of broodmares anyways.

I hope those near where this stallion, Camina's Maccoy, is now (or his owner of course) keep us posted on how he's doing. He is one I would seriously consider for our mare.

Ditto.

[goodpony]

I have a mare who definitely falls into the 'career broodmare' path; a fact I have always regretted. Her dam was enormously successful competing at the national level in dressage, eventing and show jumping....unfortunately after moms extensive performance career she has produced only three full siblings....and is now in her early twenties. I have one daughter, who began her breeding career at age three (long before I bought her from her original importer), as did her full sister. The youngest has just started under saddle--but has already been retained for the future by her breeder.


My hope at least for my mare is that her value as a broodmare (a producer) will be proven through the quality and performance of her offspring. Of her seven offspring the three born with me (at least) are all destined for performance careers.