Draft cross in Dressage [Archive]

shawneeAcres

Mar. 12, 2009, 12:38 PM

Yes this one has been beat to death on this board! And I am not super fond of draft crosses in dressage (although I think they are better suited towards that than jumping), but just thought I'd share this experience. have a new boarder/horse in training, she has been here since late January. Owner is a somewhat timid adult rider and wanted me to work her some for her before she starts back riding (horse had some time off due to EPSM diagnosis). Have been riding this Clyde x Dutch WB mare now for a month and a half or so. I'm pretty impressed by her, of course she is jsut LOW level at this point and knowing her owner she'd be lucky to ever get past training level just becuase she doesn't have the desire. But I think the horse has the potential to at least attain 2nd with the right rider. I am going to show her for the owner at our schooling show on the 22nd just in walk/trot, just starting to get abck to cantering her and not ready to show at the canter. Anyways, so far a pleasant experience with this mare. She is definitely drafty, but kind of reminds you of a fresian cross.

IrishDeclan

Mar. 12, 2009, 01:40 PM

I think it just depends on what kind of cross it is. I had a lovely TB/Percheron gelding several years ago who was my event horse. He wasn't even a 3/4 TB cross. He was 1/2 and 1/2 by a TB stallion named "Not Surprised", who I believe was part of the International Hunter Futurity. We won 3 events and then were 4th at the area championships, all with dressage scores in the mid 20's (70's pure dressage). He developed some arthritis in his hocks, so I decided to retire him from jumping and he is now doing dressage with my Mom. She just took him to her first recognized show and got two 1st's and two 2nd's on him. The horse that beat him those two times was a stallion from Iron Spring Farm. Jasper has lovely gaits and does all his lengthenings, shoulder in, haunches in, leg yield, half pass. He also has that great draft cross brain to go with it. Here's a pic of him:

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg282/jjakes7018/Horses/SnazzyJazzy.jpg

FancyFree

Mar. 12, 2009, 01:59 PM

He's very nice IrishDeclan.

Some draft crosses are great, put together well. Others, not so much. It just depends on the individual horse.

ShayDarra

Mar. 12, 2009, 04:50 PM

Shawnee Acres - just wanted to throw my two cents in about your comment about draft crosses being better suited to dressage than jumping. I do think that it depends on the type of cross and the individual horse, but my Clyde/TB mare is an amazing jumper. Her dressage isn't bad and would be better with someone who is a better dressage rider than I am, but she DOES love to jump. We just did out first Beginner Novice event and we were second. Dressage was a bit uninspired but her stadium was flawless and she was a machine cross country. She currently jumps 3'6" with ease and great form.

SD

classicsporthorses

Mar. 12, 2009, 05:01 PM

One can never judge a book by it's cover. I have and breed Percheron/TB's. My coming 7 year old stallion is an F1 cross and we chose well with breeding to make him and his older 1/2 brother (they have the same sire who's the "older style" percheron NOT a hitch horse).

Mine are all amazing athletes as are their other 1/2 siblings.

My 8 year old blew the competition away his first year out in dressage and his grand prix trainer we took him to said he had the potential to make 4th, yes 4th. And boy can this horse jump. I have not seen a "natural" like this in some time. He LOVES IT too.

I was never so impressed when a few years ago I went to the Percheron and 1/2 percheron world congress, was in VA. Here these horses competed in ALL of the disciplines usually only lighter horses do. They were all amazing athletes.

Ambrey

Mar. 12, 2009, 05:34 PM

I just had a friend out from Minnesota who I met on another board. She got to ride my perch X and was very impressed, as are most people who actually get to ride him :)

There are quite a few draft crosses moving up the levels now- back when I got mine they were just starting to be really popular, but now they are getting a real following. Of course people looking for dressage prospects are better off going with the purpose bred draft crosses, as several farms have programs that are having a lot of success- but sometimes a mudblood supposed-to-be-a-hunt-horse like mine can do the job too ;)

Bravestrom

Mar. 12, 2009, 06:05 PM

Yes, draft crosses can do dressage and yes they can jump. Currently our first generation crosses - which are 1/2 draft are doing quite well - we have 2 of our 2nd generation - 1/4 draft/warmblood starting and are breeding to produce our 3rd generation crosses - 1/8 draft/warmblood - our ideal cross will be arriving next year.

some of our first generation can be seen at www.hotelfun4kids.com/horses.htm

Also, my gelding doing level 1 - schooling at level 2/3 - http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=203497&id=505480415&l=b2b87

kahjul

Mar. 12, 2009, 06:21 PM

Whenever I see a draft X post, I have to chime in with my pics. Here is my girl (last year at 5) showing 1st level. She is now schooling some 3rd and ready to show 2nd. Every trainer I have ever worked with loves her, and although she has some difficulties with her massive front end staying light, she is just so damn easy to be around!

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t328/jphillips03/trr2.jpg

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t328/jphillips03/trr1.jpg

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t328/jphillips03/fronttrot-1.jpg

shawneeAcres

Mar. 12, 2009, 06:34 PM

My comment about draft crosses being better suited to dressage than jumping is not becuase they do not ahve the ability to jump, some do jump very well, but usually their musculature and conformation make them much more likely to suffer from soundness issues when jumping. Most all draft crosses that I know (that are 1/2 or better that is) have been lame by the time they are 12, usually with ringbone as their pasterns simply cannot handle the stress of jumping, they aren't built for it. So personally, I feel it is a disservice to a draft cross to ask them to do a serious job jumping.

Ambrey

Mar. 12, 2009, 07:03 PM

So personally, I feel it is a disservice to a draft cross to ask them to do a serious job jumping.

"Draft cross" is not a homogeneous breed, so what would be right for one is not necessarily right for others. Knowing "a few draft crosses" doesn't really tell you much about anybody else's draft cross, because the breeds crossed might be completely different.

I have 3 draft crosses just on my row, and other than that they are all gray, you'd never peg them as being "the same breed." Two are Shire x TB and mine is Perch X QH.

shawneeAcres

Mar. 12, 2009, 07:29 PM

"Draft cross" is not a homogeneous breed, so what would be right for one is not necessarily right for others. Knowing "a few draft crosses" doesn't really tell you much about anybody else's draft cross, because the breeds crossed might be completely different.

I have 3 draft crosses just on my row, and other than that they are all gray, you'd never peg them as being "the same breed." Two are Shire x TB and mine is Perch X QH.

Not saying all are the same BUT I have known of several that were AWESOME jumpers but their conformation jsut couldnt hold up. Drafts weren't bred to gallop and jump and I, personally won't jump a draft cross that has draft type leg conformation. By "a few" I am speaking 20+, many of which were draft x TB (primarily Percheron), a few were draft x Qh and one was a draft x arab

Ambrey

Mar. 12, 2009, 07:33 PM

Define "draft type leg conformation."

shawneeAcres

Mar. 12, 2009, 07:39 PM

bird4416

Mar. 12, 2009, 07:47 PM

This year I will be showing my belgian, saddlebred, standardbred cross 4th level and Prix St George. (trying to get the silver medal.) He will be 9 this year and has done a little bit of several things (jumping and fox hunting) but really excels at dressage. We are working on our single tempis now and so far I've managed to get 9 in a row but he's not consist with them yet. His piaffe and passage are coming along and he is really fun to ride. I don't think he is typical of most draft crosses but there are some nice ones out there.
Here he is doing a second level test:
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2908507330034166832BRblYN

On a hunt (just hilltopping)
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2289764980034166832hAiReT

Free jumping (don't have any jumping pics under saddle
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2203460320034166832ZaCloE

I love draft crosses. I have another one that is 1/2 Belgian and 1/2 t'bred. He showed successfully at 1st level but he is much more drafty and collection was really tough for him. His main job is fox hunting and trail riding and he is perfect for it. Dressage is definitely not his thing.

Ambrey

Mar. 12, 2009, 07:57 PM

Wow, where did you get the giant Haflinger :lol:? He's gorgeous!

FancyFree

Mar. 12, 2009, 10:14 PM

I love draft crosses. I have another one that is 1/2 Belgian and 1/2 t'bred. He showed successfully at 1st level but he is much more drafty and collection was really tough for him. His main job is fox hunting and trail riding and he is perfect for it. Dressage is definitely not his thing.

For some of the draft crosses, dressage is just not their thing. They're just not built for it, whether they're too thick in the throat latch or just plain too heavy. Kind of unfair to ask them to do it. Not all are alike though, obviously.

I have to say, yours is a stunner bird. I agree he's not really typical of the draft crosses, at least what I've seen. Very nice! But I have seen a few examples on this board that have really changed my mind about draft crosses. Really well put together horses that apparently have a good mind to go along with it. :)

IrishDeclan

Mar. 12, 2009, 10:14 PM

Ambrey

Mar. 12, 2009, 10:42 PM

I remember seeing these pics on one of your other posts. I loved her then and still feel the same!!

:yes::yes:

horsepix76

Mar. 13, 2009, 10:50 AM

Forrest Hill Farm and Panache Acres would be fall under the "purpose bred draft cross" farms. They both breed for sport horses, specifically dressage. :)

www.PanacheAcres.com
www.ForrestHillFarm.com

Shrunk "N" Da Wash

Mar. 13, 2009, 04:57 PM

Great minds:yes:!!! They can be very nice but they aren't a wamblood replacement. :lol:

FancyFree

Mar. 13, 2009, 05:20 PM

Great minds:yes:!!! They can be very nice but they aren't a wamblood replacement. :lol:

I can't wait to read the responses you get Shrunk! :lol:

Ambrey

Mar. 13, 2009, 05:28 PM

Short/straight pasterns, somewhat long cannon in relation to the forearm, straighter thru the shoulder. A "pulling" leg which is what they were bred for, works great for pulling heavy loads at slow speeds. Nothing WRONG with this conformation if you are doing heavy draft work, it is ideal for that, but all too often the crosses get this leg conformation. I am NOT knocking the draft cross, but I just feel one should look VERY CAREFULLY at any horse (regardless of breed) and thei conformation before askign them to do a job that may cause them to become unsound.

Those conformational faults aren't desirable in draft horses either ;) It makes me think most of the horses you are working with are not carefully bred- as with most breeds, there are the "very well bred" and the "Amish plow horse gotten for free after it went lame at 8 bred to the crazy TB down the road" versions,as well as those in between, like my big guy, who was bred with some care but not from a proven program). Certainly most of the better programs wouldn't continue to breed a draft that passed on such conformation.

The purpose bred horses are becoming more common, and as the good breeding programs gain experience they are getting even nicer!

Ambrey

Mar. 13, 2009, 05:43 PM

Great minds:yes:!!! They can be very nice but they aren't a wamblood replacement. :lol:

LOL, look at the prices the better programs are getting. If people wanted warmbloods, they'd be buying warmbloods- people who are buying the purpose bred draft crosses are buying them because they want a purpose bred draft cross, not because they want a warmblood and can't afford one!

They've developed their own little following in their own right :)

Shrunk "N" Da Wash

Mar. 13, 2009, 06:03 PM

LOL, look at the prices the better programs are getting. If people wanted warmbloods, they'd be buying warmbloods- people who are buying the purpose bred draft crosses are buying them because they want a purpose bred draft cross, not because they want a warmblood and can't afford one!

They've developed their own little following in their own right :)

I agree! I didn't say that's what ppl were buying them for. It was meant to be a joke because I know a few ppl that have got some poorly bred draft crosses expecting it to be a jumper:eek:. Then again I have seem some nicer draft crosses that AA have purchased for lovely low lvl dressage horses. A draft cross can range to much it depends what the exact breeding and how it turned our:yes:.