Need Welsh stud for 14.3h AQHA buckskin mare

[schnitkey]

WaaHOOO!!! My husband has given the green light to breed my daughter's AQHA 14.3h buckskin mare. H/J trainer says to go with a welsh stud to try and get that large pony. Delta has a wonderful tuck your knees jump and point your toes stride and lovely laidback attitude. I would love to maintain the dun colors. Now I need all COTH members to shoot Welsh studs my way. Make them pretty, lovely necked, wonderful attitude and great movement a must. We will be breeding in 2010 so I want to collect as many studs as I can so that my trainer (Robert Wayner) and I can sit down and have fun.

[Mo's Mom]

I have 2 that I would not hesitate to breed with.

www.blueridgewelsh.com/Notorious.html

www.willowbendfarm.com Then click on the Rosmel's Golden Wonder.

Both I have seen in person and are wonderful stallions. Both farms show at the breed shows. Both throw very correct foals.

Good Luck! :winkgrin:

[rideagoldenpony]

I'd like to invite you to visit my handsome boy, imported Section B stallion *Wedderlie Mardi Gras, Royal Welsh/2 time US National Champion: http://www.welshponies.com/mardi.htm

You can see many of his offspring at http://www.welshponies.com/mardifoals.htm

I also have a wonderful stallion that is 13.2 hands, imported Section B Welsh. Lovely mover, fabulous temperament. I unfortunately do not have many photos of him, and no video (on the agenda for this season). His full sister has been VERY successful for me in the show ring, which was why I purchased him. You can see him at http://www.welshponies.com/hcfstud.htm

[schnitkey]

What Height/section of Welsh stud should I be looking at to try to keep the 14-14.2h? Also, if I cross this mare with a Welsh stud is the baby registerable with any association? Just keep sending those studs my way. They are all so pretty!!!!

[Mo's Mom]

Your pony would be able to be registered as 1/2 Welsh with the Welsh pony and Cob society of America.

[Rohdiamond]

I can highly recommend Lord Solomon, he can be seen at www.secretambitionstables.com

His owner is excellent to work with and he throws beautiful babies! Here are some pictures of his most recent filly, a half Arab. You can see more pictures of Lesarra (the filly) and Solomon on the website.

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo189/fohlen/l_326f986c75054fe3bb57e92132551522.jpg

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo189/fohlen/l_a335b7fd0d2d41db9831c5ec034c72d8.jpg

[dray]

Checkwith Lynda Lewis of Lyndon acres in Burleson, Texas. She is my neighbor and stands Nocturne...a multi-national champion. I can pm you her number!

She has a web site.

[quicksilverponies]

As far as size goes with the stallion you choose, it depends a lot on the genetics of your mare. If she has mainly stock type smaller AQHA bloodlines with nothing over about 15hh on her pedigree, you would probably be safe breeding to a Welsh stallion up to maybe 13.2hh. However, if she has some size in her breeding, I would stick with something under 13hh. You definitely want to use a purebred stallion if you choose a larger one as the crossbreds tend to have larger TB genetics in their pedigrees. There are some lovely crossbred stallions that are small too. Also, you need to be sure that the pedigree of any Welsh stallion you might choose doesnt have a lot of size in its background either. I have crossed my stallions with QH mares with good results in the past. Good luck in your stallion search.

[KaraAD]

We just finished (and sold) a baby by Smoke Tree Silver Dragon out of one of our pony mares. If this pony had been any easier to break and finish (including automatic lead changes), he would have had to tack himself up! He sold (for a good price) in no time and is going to make the best kid's pony (and clean up in the hunter ring).

I don't really know anything about welsh pony breeding (and our pony mare was about the sweetest pony you could ever hope for) but I would love to have a barn full of ponies by this stallion.

He may be smaller than you are looking for but he is a palomino.

I know he is (or was) in FL but I don't know anything else about him. (I googled him and found lots of farms that mentions that their babies are by him but no info on the farm htat actually owns him.

[Daventry]

I agree that it would be great to know the bloodlines of your mare, to see what kind of "height" is hidden back in her pedigree. It will help you in narrowing down the height of stallion you can use to produce a large pony hunter. As well, it's important to know the background height of the stallion too. As someone already mentioned, some of the crossbred pony stallions may have more Thoroughbred in their background than you want, as far as height goes.

If registration is important to you, then you are best to find a purebred pony stallion. Both the Canadian and American Welsh registries have a Half Welsh registry for ANY foals from a purebred & registered Welsh stallion. Make sure you find out from the Stallion Owner if they are registered and purebred first!

[VirginiaBred]

I'm going to play devil's advocate and tell you that as this is her first foal, you can go larger on the sire. Breeding to a pure welsh (at it's largest) will give you a large pony, but a small one. With your mare being a smaller QH, her tendency will be towards smaller offspring. I would suggest Meadow Fox Ronaldo (T.F. Count Bisbee x Satin Doll) 14.1 3/4 hands. http://www.meadowfoxfarm.com. (http://www.meadowfoxfarm.com/)

[Sugarbrook]

Maybe i missed it, but are you looking to breed for the hunter ring?

[Windswept Stable]

I'm going to play devil's advocate and tell you that as this is her first foal, you can go larger on the sire. Breeding to a pure welsh (at it's largest) will give you a large pony, but a small one. With your mare being a smaller QH, her tendency will be towards smaller offspring. I would suggest Meadow Fox Ronaldo (T.F. Count Bisbee x Satin Doll) 14.1 3/4 hands. http://www.meadowfoxfarm.com. (http://www.meadowfoxfarm.com/)

While I am not going to disagree, I would have to say that size match up scares me a little as far as pushing luck. As I said, no disagreement there.. just a raised eyebrow. I totally agree that a bad size large is not a desirable outcome.. especially in a sour economy.
How about a crossbred medium stallion?

[VirginiaBred]

Now Windswept, live on the edge! (go see him, he's pretty nice!!!)

[092556]

Smoke Tree Silver Dragon is at Dragon's Lair Farm, Newberry Florida (north of Gainesville) 352-472-6374. 12.2 hand Palomino 4 stockings/blaze
We just finished (and sold) a baby by Smoke Tree Silver Dragon out of one of our pony mares. If this pony had been any easier to break and finish (including automatic lead changes), he would have had to tack himself up! He sold (for a good price) in no time and is going to make the best kid's pony (and clean up in the hunter ring).

I don't really know anything about welsh pony breeding (and our pony mare was about the sweetest pony you could ever hope for) but I would love to have a barn full of ponies by this stallion.

He may be smaller than you are looking for but he is a palomino.

I know he is (or was) in FL but I don't know anything else about him. (I googled him and found lots of farms that mentions that their babies are by him but no info on the farm that actually owns him.
A pic of Dragon
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa170/hacooke/DRAGON.jpg

[chunky munky]

The stallion Vbred suggests may be nice, but you sure would be throwing alot in the mix. Pretty sure Count Bisbee was Arabian and dam is of unknown origin. ( I know this because I was the owner of one of her babies, Wyndham Blue Suede Shoes) He was by Farnley Prelude and sticked at exactly 13.2. He is a blue roan. I'm no color expert, but I would think the odds of getting a dun would not be great. Oddly enough, Windswept's daughter showed my Blue Suede Shoes pony a few times. Small world, eh?

[VirginiaBred]

Interesting Dun color statistics:

BAY + DUN:
This creates a bay dun, also called a 'yellow dun' or sometimes 'zebra dun'. The body color is usually diluted to a yellow color, although sometimes the body remains very red. This is the most common dun. The dun marks are black.

BLACK + DUN:
This is called Grullo/a depending on horse's sex ('a' is female'); it is also called black dun, blue dun, slate grullo, silver grullo, silver dun, or lobo dun. This is often considered the rarest shade of dun. The black coat is diluted to a mousy-gray, but the coat can be silver-smoky, bluish, or sometimes a mousy-brown.

CHESTNUT + DUN:
This is called a red dun, and some shades are sometimes called "apricot dun" or "peach dun". The red body color is slightly diluted, and the dun marks are a dark red (as the genotype is ee, there is no black pigment, so dun instead creates red stripe/marks).

BROWN + DUN:
Called "Mouse dun", or sometimes "olive grullo", "muddy grullo", or "wolf dun". The body is a muddy-tan or brown color, not as yellow as a bay dun and not as silver as a grullo.

[showponies]

Can you let us know what the height is behind you mare....My daughters mare 1/2 welsh(13.2), has a 15.2 hand momma....When we bred her, we will be very careful to height issues. Also, even if you bred to a smaller stallion, you want to make sure that he doesn't have height hidden back there. You have opened a large can of worms:D

[Sugarbrook]

Hummmm..........I have two interesting ones for you to look at, but both are gray. My Sugarbrook Blue Pacific is 13.2.(Traveller) gives color, but not sure about dun or buckskin. Blue Who is only 11.2, and most all of his (not ALL) are gray. Blue Rain, his sire, bred to my buckskin mare gave a palomino, a honey colored bay, and a dark bay. Blue Rain is gray.

[RiddleMeThis]

If your mare is buckskin your not going to get any sort of dun unless you breed to a dun. Buckskin is a cream color. Dun is a whole different thing. (though some registries call them the same thing, they are in fact different.

Buckskin
http://www.southernstyleminiatures.com/stallion_files/07RF-008-30.jpg

Bay dun
http://www.morgancolors.com/rckragtimetresoros.jpg

ETA: Pictures

[Windswept Stable]

Now Windswept, live on the edge! (go see him, he's pretty nice!!!)

Thats funny Randee... Living on the edge is my middle name!

[Windswept Stable]

Here's a buckskin small -
Pony: GLENHAVEN JORDIE

Owner: Dr. and Mrs. John Moody

Sire: Old Acres St. George

Dam: Downland Winberry

www.glenhavenwelsh.com

Description: Welsh B, Buckskin, 12.1, 2005, $400 Introductory Fee, AI, LFG. Standing to a few mares in his first year. Lovely, correct, small stallion with outstanding movement. Beautiful head and kind disposition. A credit to his sire.


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What happens with Palamino to buckskin?

[RiddleMeThis]

What happens with Palamino to buckskin?
As far as what colors are possible??

Without knowing more Chestnut, Bay, Black, Palomino, Buckskin, Smoky Black, Cremello, Perlino, or Smoky Cream.

[Windswept Stable]

As far as what colors are possible??

Without knowing more Chestnut, Bay, Black, Palomino, Buckskin, Smoky Black, Cremello, Perlino, or Smoky Cream.

Does breeding buckskin to buckskin ALWAYS give buckskin?

[Windswept Stable]

The stallion Vbred suggests may be nice, but you sure would be throwing alot in the mix. Pretty sure Count Bisbee was Arabian and dam is of unknown origin. ( I know this because I was the owner of one of her babies, Wyndham Blue Suede Shoes) He was by Farnley Prelude and sticked at exactly 13.2. He is a blue roan. I'm no color expert, but I would think the odds of getting a dun would not be great. Oddly enough, Windswept's daughter showed my Blue Suede Shoes pony a few times. Small world, eh?

Yeah for Blue Suede Shoes!!! He was a nice one! Wish daughter could still show in the mediums! Darn that outaging thing!

[RiddleMeThis]

Does breeding buckskin to buckskin ALWAYS give buckskin?
NO way!! Buckskin x buckskin gives you the same possibilities as palomino to buckskin, though with different percentages. And those are correct until you know the agouti and extension status of both mare and stallion.

[Windswept Stable]

NO way!! Buckskin x buckskin gives you the same possibilities as palomino to buckskin, though with different percentages. And those are correct until you know the agouti and extension status of both mare and stallion.

Riddle--thank you for being so great at this and for sharing your wisdom!
It's all so complicated. I had a black colt at my farm in August and still have trouble figuring out how -- well that's not realy so, I know how it happened... I just dont get the genetic part of it.

[RiddleMeThis]

Riddle--thank you for being so great at this and for sharing your wisdom!
It's all so complicated. I had a black colt at my farm in August and still have trouble figuring out how -- well that's not realy so, I know how it happened... I just dont get the genetic part of it.
What color were the parents and I can try and help you figure it out.

And you are very welcome. I enjoy this a lot.

[Windswept Stable]

What color were the parents and I can try and help you figure it out.

And you are very welcome. I enjoy this a lot.

Chestnut stallion grey mare

[RiddleMeThis]

Chestnut stallion grey mareOk well this is a little bit more complicated because of gray but I will try and make it simple. The chestnut color (e) is recessive to the black color (E) so the chestnut stallion is ee. Because the stallion is chestnut we know that underneath the gray the mare has at least one black gene. So she is E?. We dont know what her other gene is because E is dominant over e and thus wont show. Now agouti (A) is the gene that modifys a black horse to bay. A bay horse is E? A?. To get a black horse it needs to have two of the recessive agoutis (a). So because the foal is black we know that both parents have at least one a. So the sire is ee ?a. and the dam is E? ?a.

The stallion passed e and a and the dam passes E and a making your foal Ee aa or black.

I hope that makes at least a little bit of sense. If not feel free to ask more questions and I will gladly clarify.

[sfstable]

What about "The Key" in Canada ? http://www.thebrandstud.ca/key.html. He is a Section B Welsh and stands 13.1 hh.

The color calculator comes up with some interesting color combinations with him and a buckskin dam.

[Dazednconfused]

Interesting Dun color statistics:

BAY + DUN:
This creates a bay dun, also called a 'yellow dun' or sometimes 'zebra dun'. The body color is usually diluted to a yellow color, although sometimes the body remains very red. This is the most common dun. The dun marks are black.

BLACK + DUN:
This is called Grullo/a depending on horse's sex ('a' is female'); it is also called black dun, blue dun, slate grullo, silver grullo, silver dun, or lobo dun. This is often considered the rarest shade of dun. The black coat is diluted to a mousy-gray, but the coat can be silver-smoky, bluish, or sometimes a mousy-brown.

CHESTNUT + DUN:
This is called a red dun, and some shades are sometimes called "apricot dun" or "peach dun". The red body color is slightly diluted, and the dun marks are a dark red (as the genotype is ee, there is no black pigment, so dun instead creates red stripe/marks).

BROWN + DUN:
Called "Mouse dun", or sometimes "olive grullo", "muddy grullo", or "wolf dun". The body is a muddy-tan or brown color, not as yellow as a bay dun and not as silver as a grullo.

Except the OP indicates she is a buckskin...and/or a dun...big difference as to what she might get and what she should breed to to keep it, if so.

[Daventry]

What about "The Key" in Canada ? He is a Section B Welsh and stands 13.1 hh.

The color calculator comes up with some interesting color combinations with him and a buckskin dam.

I'd be worried about breeding any single dilute mare (palomino, buckskin or smokey black) to a double dilute (perlino, cremello or smokey cream), as you take a big chance of getting a double dilute foal. For me personally, it would be a big no-no for the pony hunter circuit and that seems to be what the OP is going for!

There are many successful pony hunter stallions in both Canada and the US that can be suggested as potential candidates. It would really depend on what the mare looks like, what her weaknesses are and what her strengths are, before anyone can suggest a suitable match! :yes:

[Daventry]

Riddle--thank you for being so great at this and for sharing your wisdom!
It's all so complicated. I had a black colt at my farm in August and still have trouble figuring out how -- well that's not realy so, I know how it happened... I just dont get the genetic part of it.

Here is a really good online Foal Color Calculator that you can use:
http://www.animalgenetics.us/CCalculator1.asp

[selah]

What about Rocko's Gold? I have a gorgeous Palomino QH 14.2 mare who reminds me of a GRP... I would love to breed her to him.

http://www.dreamvalleyranch.biz/Rocko's%20index.htm

[Windswept Stable]

Ok well this is a little bit more complicated because of gray but I will try and make it simple. The chestnut color (e) is recessive to the black color (E) so the chestnut stallion is ee. Because the stallion is chestnut we know that underneath the gray the mare has at least one black gene. So she is E?. We dont know what her other gene is because E is dominant over e and thus wont show. Now agouti (A) is the gene that modifys a black horse to bay. A bay horse is E? A?. To get a black horse it needs to have two of the recessive agoutis (a). So because the foal is black we know that both parents have at least one a. So the sire is ee ?a. and the dam is E? ?a.

The stallion passed e and a and the dam passes E and a making your foal Ee aa or black.

I hope that makes at least a little bit of sense. If not feel free to ask more questions and I will gladly clarify.

I think that is what this UCLA Davis report says too:

Coat Color results for Empire's Stikes Blue(DT20302):

Red-Factor Result:
E/e - Both black and red factors detected. Either E or e transmitted to offspring. Basic color is black, bay or brown in the absence of other modifying genes.

Agouti Result:
a/a - Only recessive allele detected. Black pigment distributed uniformly. Basic color is black in the absence of other modifying genes.

Cream Result:
N/N - No evidence for the Cream dilution altered sequence detected. Basic color is sorrel or chestnut, bay or black in the absence of other modifying genes.

Also had testing done at a different lab in Fla for the grey gene--which he did not have.

So does he look like a black to you?

[RiddleMeThis]

So does he look like a black to you?
I only found the one photo on the nursery page. In that photo he looks like a black foal with a semi sun bleached coat. I would love to see a recent photo of him!

[schnitkey]

First of all, I apologize and stand corrected. She is a lineback buttermilk dun with zebra stripes, all black points, and frosting of her mane and tail. Now on to her pedigree.

Sire - please follow this link
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/fancy+town+turp

Dam - please follow this link
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/anthony+pecho

I had to dig hard for this but here is a picture of her. Terrible shot but until I can scan pictures in of her showing this is what I have.

http://forums.delphiforums.com/PHJ_forum/messages/?msg=127751.20

Also for those of you inquiring about buckskin/dun color.
http://www.americanbuckskin.org/Registration.html

I love all the options you have been sending. I still am concerned about breeding below 12h. No, this is not her first foal. Since she is on the foundation side of "form" herself, I really want to keep that neck "scopey".

I hope this information helps.
Sheri

[schnitkey]

Keeping Rosmel's Golden Wonder on my list, thankyou.

[schnitkey]

I'd like to invite you to visit my handsome boy, imported Section B stallion *Wedderlie Mardi Gras, Royal Welsh/2 time US National Champion: http://www.welshponies.com/mardi.htm

LOVE that boy. Love his neck and movement. He is definately on the list. Thanks

[schnitkey]

Your pony would be able to be registered as 1/2 Welsh with the Welsh pony and Cob society of America.


Thankyou - That is wonderful to know. Um, another pony dumb question. What is the difference between Cob and 1/2 Welsh?

[schnitkey]

May I ask why you did not suggest your own stud "Land's End Adagio" . He is just beautiful.

[schnitkey]

Yes, my duaghters have become hooked on jumping.

[schnitkey]

Hummmm..........I have two interesting ones for you to look at, but both are gray. My Sugarbrook Blue Pacific is 13.2.(Traveller) gives color, but not sure about dun or buckskin. Blue Who is only 11.2, and most all of his (not ALL) are gray. Blue Rain, his sire, bred to my buckskin mare gave a palomino, a honey colored bay, and a dark bay. Blue Rain is gray.


Both of your boys are on my list. I did add more information on the mare. Sheri

[quicksilverponies]

Schnitkey - I think Adagio would be a great choice for your mare. I just don't like to automatically assume he would be perfect for every mare. Based on what you have said about your mare, I do think he could cross well with her. As you might know, Adagio's sire, Carolinas Red Fox, is currently ranked #1 on the USEF Leading Hunter Pony sires list and has been in the top 3 since its inception. His dam, Llanarth Rhapsody, is by Twyford Signal, the sire of Llanarth Senator, who has sired many of the winning Northwinds ponies. I invite you to look at Adagio's foals on my website. He is producing really lovely hunter pony prospects. He will have a 2 yr old filly and yearling colt out showing in Pony Hunter Breeding with Oliver Brown this year.

[Windswept Stable]

I only found the one photo on the nursery page. In that photo he looks like a black foal with a semi sun bleached coat. I would love to see a recent photo of him!

Do you facebook? Friend me & we just posted some pics that Ladybug Hill took yesterday of him.

Patti Johnson Landes

[RiddleMeThis]

Yes I do have facebook. I just sent you a friend request on there. I wrote in the message that it was RiddleMeThis from COTH.

[chunky munky]

Schnitkey - I think Adagio would be a great choice for your mare. I just don't like to automatically assume he would be perfect for every mare. Based on what you have said about your mare, I do think he could cross well with her. As you might know, Adagio's sire, Carolinas Red Fox, is currently ranked #1 on the USEF Leading Hunter Pony sires list and has been in the top 3 since its inception. His dam, Llanarth Rhapsody, is by Twyford Signal, the sire of Llanarth Senator, who has sired many of the winning Northwinds ponies. I invite you to look at Adagio's foals on my website. He is producing really lovely hunter pony prospects. He will have a 2 yr old filly and yearling colt out showing in Pony Hunter Breeding with Oliver Brown this year.

Just my opinion but I think Adagio is a lovely pony with a royal pedigree. One of my besy ponies ever was by Red Fox. Not only was he handsome and fancy but maybe the sweetest pony I ever had and Soooo easy to train. Quicksilver's boy seems like an excellent choice.

[Sugarbrook]

Yes, Adagio is very lovely, so lovely in fact that I chose him for my Apricot Hill, dam of the famous Up Till Dawn, and Blue Bayou among others, and she is due to foal very soon. We are quite excited to see this combination.