What would your thoughts on this be??? [Archive]

GrandIllusionSportHorses

Mar. 10, 2009, 11:05 AM

I had my vet come out the 1st week of January to preg check my mare. He palpated her
and said that she was infoal and he thought she would foal in 3-4 weeks. Well that
was a shock for me as we didn't breed her but later found out that my neighbor has a
stud that had been loose and may have done the deed. Fast forward to this past few
weeks mare still hadn't foaled but vet had said that he may have been off on the
date and to just wait and keep watching her. Mare was in a foaling stall at night
and in a small paddock during the day since the preg. was confirmed. This past
weekend the mare looked like she had the hiccups so called the vet out. Different
vet is on call and does a ultra sound and says the mare is open. This mare is
getting a bigger udder over the past few days and more edema. At no time have I seen
any sign of a fetus or cleanings. This really puzzles me so I called the normal vet
out yesterday and he palpates her again and says that she is now open. I asked about
the fetus and was told that she must have resorb it. I would think that if she was
that close to being full term that she wouldn't be able to do that. Shouldn't I see
some thing?? This mare is still pushing her butt on the fence and stall walls and
acting like she is still in foal. What do you make of this....

pintopiaffe

Mar. 10, 2009, 11:54 AM

:no:

They don't even 'reabsorb' early in pregnancy, they slip the foal but it's too tiny to notice ... there's not such a thing as 'reabsorbing.'

False pregnancy, can happen for sure.

But there's also quite a bit of time when foal can be low and out of reach. Did they draw any blood?

If her udder is still enlarging, can be several reasons including but not limited to phytoestrogens--but I see you're in VT, and if you're anything like me, pasture is a mere fond memory and wish for the someday futre, clover is nowhere NEAR reality. (much clover in your hay? Usually there's not in New England. It doesn't put up well in our weather.)

If she's showing other signs, insist on either a blood draw or a REPRO vet. Sure, due dates are practically non-existant when we KNOW when the breeding was, and even sketchier for mystery dates. But you can loose both if the foaling goes unattended.

patch work farm

Mar. 10, 2009, 11:56 AM

If it were me, I would call a totally different vet practice.

First of all for a vet to say "she will foal in January" without more information I would think he pulled that out of the sky (evidently he did). Then for the mare to suddenly now be open sounds like he misdiagnosed the pregnancy originally.

You are correct, I had a foal aborted 3 months from his due date, it is not something they can "absorb" nor can you miss it, although not full term size, it is still big enough to find(unless a fox beats you to it). My foal was large but was about 45-50 pounds another mare aborted 8 weeks before her due date and that one weighed 70 pounds just to give you perspective. It sounds like this vet clinic does not have much experience with reproduction, I would find someone else. If the mare did abort the foal, you might need to get her flushed to avoid infection, surprised they didn't suggest that but again, if they are not familiar with repro-run!

GrandIllusionSportHorses

Mar. 10, 2009, 12:06 PM

There is no clover in our hay and her deit as not changed. She is in a small turn out and I am a stay at home mom and can see her from the house I have been watching her like a hawk sense the vet said she was bred.
Both vets that came out do repo and are horse vets only. I didnt know if the foal could have dropped down low and they just cant see or feel it now and were off on the foaling date. She is getting more edema and more filling in her udder if you look at her now and look at pictures of when she was in foal last she looks like she did when she was 3-4 months off from foaling. No blood work was done niether vet felt it was worth doing.

I did ask if she should be cleaned and was told no that she was clean and no need.

Fairview Horse Center

Mar. 10, 2009, 12:15 PM

I had someone buy a mare that was deemed in foal. The mare had originally been purchased at auction, so no history. The vet originally said she was in foal around mid-October. He said she would foal within 4 to 6 weeks (around Dec 1st). When she got to my barn, she had no udder development, so I had my vet check her. He said not due for months. She foaled late March.

I would watch her udder develoment, and see if she begins to cycle. I would make sure to boost her vaccines soon, just in case.

Iron Horse Farm

Mar. 10, 2009, 12:36 PM

What would your thoughts on this be???

That you ned new vets!:cool:

GrandIllusionSportHorses

Mar. 10, 2009, 12:53 PM

IHF I am thinking you maybe right. lol

Is there any chance she is in foal and the foal as dropped low and they just dont see-feel it at this point and she needs to cook afew more months than the 1st vet thought?
I dont have much faith in the ultra sound the vet that did it just didnt seem sure of them selfs. Said that they saw movment in the mare and would say that she was in foal except for what they saw on the ultra sound...

Here is a picture taken this morning she is now turned out in the big field with the other horses.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j179/Aagilbert/0310091221b.jpg

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j179/Aagilbert/0310091232a.jpg

pintopiaffe

Mar. 10, 2009, 01:00 PM

Is there any chance she is in foal and the foal as dropped low and they just dont see-feel it at this point and she needs to cook afew more months than the 1st vet thought?

Absolutely--the middle months are when the foal can drop down below the pelvic rim and sometimes you just can't 'reach.' Could've been up for a visit the first palp. My vet hates doing anything after 3 mos and until 9 mos because unless the foal chooses to come visit, you may or may not feel it. Certainly the should be able to tell from the uterus, you'd think... :uhoh:

Unfortunately outward appearances can be quite decieving, especially if she's had foals in the past. I have an old multi-parous girl who looks far, far further along (and is supposedly open) than the one due in June. Gravity and good food. ;)

Keep an eye on her udder--developing one mid-pregnancy can indicate any number of things--none of them good. Do you have any other vet options?

How frustrating. :(

patch work farm

Mar. 10, 2009, 01:20 PM

Not to get picky here but you said they "do repro"...I mean go get repro specialists! How could they possibly say she was "clean" if all they did was an ultrasound?!

If you are watching her like a hawk and have seen nothing unusual or found a dead fetus than she can/should be still be in foal and yes, it could be low enough that they couldn't find it . I know how hard it is to change vets but there are many out there that say they "do repro" but don't REALLY know repro to the extent that they should. I believe you started this thread to get advice on whether they could be wrong and I think they are and it sounds like others do as well.

shea'smom

Mar. 10, 2009, 04:41 PM

A friend of mine sent a mare off to be bred. The vet said she didn't take. She was gone about 3 months. When she came home the owner was suspicious and had her checked. Not preg. Mare went off to college, mom saw her again in May at a PC Rally. Mare did novice, came home, rechecked, foaled three weeks later! Nice little filly.
My vet defended the other vet and said you can't feel the baby at 4 months.
Let us know what happens!

classicsporthorses

Mar. 10, 2009, 07:45 PM

Just keep watching her. I have a 9 month old colt standing in my baby pasture who was foaled on Friday June 13, 2008. My vet told me on 2 ocassions, with palps and ultra sounds (the first one at 20 days the second at 8 months) AND blood was drawn, in between, that my mare was NOT in foal.

I knew she was all along she was when she would not stand for our stallion again after the first time our vet said she was not in foal.

Ironically the stallion's dam fooled everyone for 3 month that she was in foal with him nearly 7 years ago.

GrandIllusionSportHorses

Mar. 11, 2009, 10:34 AM

Thanks for all the feed back on this. I think I am going to keep a close eye on her and see what happens. I really cant spend more $$ on this at this point in time DH just got a pay cut so things are a bit tight.

asanders

Mar. 11, 2009, 11:37 AM

GrandIllusionSportHorses

Mar. 11, 2009, 11:47 AM

I had her checked because I had a few horsey friends who live out of town visit and they asked if she was bred because she looked it to them. I had said no that she was just wintering well. That was in November. Well in the end of December I was looking at her and thinking that she sure was round more so than my other unbred broodies. Then I saw what looked like movement and thought well better get the vet out and be sure. There are people who live behind us that have a stud that use to get out alot. Had all the mares checked to be sure and this was the only one that he said was in foal.

Fairview Horse Center

Mar. 11, 2009, 12:39 PM

You can order basic vaccines for about $20. Vaccinate now and she will have good colostrum for quite a few months JIC

GrandIllusionSportHorses

Mar. 11, 2009, 12:47 PM

I had the vet update her vaccines in Jan when he said she was in foal.:sadsmile:

Ainsley

Mar. 11, 2009, 08:37 PM

Just out of curiosity, what kind of stallion would the sire be? Would it be a register-able or market-able foal?

Not that it really matters at this point - healthy and happy are the important things now :)

Good luck with this.

Jennifer

GrandIllusionSportHorses

Mar. 12, 2009, 06:32 AM

Iron Horse Farm

Mar. 12, 2009, 07:27 AM

The Sire is a reg bucksink QH. Not sure if the owners of him would sign off on papers for the foal to be reg or not but figured when the foal hit the ground we would go over that. No need getting into any thing with them if the foal never comes. The Dam is a reg. TB she is well built with some good lines.

The point is moot if there is no foal, but if there is..............I'd certainly be taking the neighbors with the fence jumping stud all of my vet bills and they damn well better sign off on papers on a foal their stud created that you didn't want!

asanders

Mar. 12, 2009, 09:05 AM

Admittedly, it is probably just that I am in day 3 of being home with cold flu and fever, and yesterday the weather was soooo beautiful, but I really couldn't face the walk from house to barn even though half of me just felt like I was wasting a perfect riding opportunity...

Anyway, now I am invested in this will she or won't she, and I think we need a foaling pool so we can keep this thread alive and make sure GISH keeps us informed :)

I think she IS and the COLT will drop May 4th.

...but remember it's just the cold medicine talking.

Have you talked to the neighbors about this yet? Does anyone have a guess WHEN this could have happened? --reserving the right to change my guess if more information is available.

GrandIllusionSportHorses

Mar. 12, 2009, 09:29 AM

LOL asanders you are to funny. :) Hubby says that their horses where loose here one morning at the end of May last year when I was out of town. I have not talk to the neighbors at this time. I myself am still up in the air on whether she is or isnt at this time.

asanders

Mar. 12, 2009, 10:07 AM

ha ha hah. I'll stand by my prediction!

Your gut told you to get her checked, so I believe it.

I can just imagine that day when the vet said she was in foal, and you then have to get EVERYONE checked. :(

I can understand avoiding the neighbors, but I would think that the least they can do is sign off on the registration.

GrandIllusionSportHorses

Mar. 12, 2009, 10:23 AM

Well fof giggles I went out and tried the nail test on her. It was going up and down her spine very fast. Tried on the other mares nothing. So I think that is interesting given that both vets said that she was open and there was no fluid. What are your thoughts?? Here is a picture taken today.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j179/Aagilbert/Picture078.jpg

vtdobes

Mar. 12, 2009, 01:41 PM

If the horses were loose in May and she did get pregnant you should be able to feel the foal by now. Have you checked that? My mare is due late May and I've been able to feel the foal for well over a month now.

Where in VT are you located? I'm just north of Middlebury. Looks like you have more snow than we do! We have mostly bare ground :)

GrandIllusionSportHorses

Mar. 12, 2009, 02:27 PM

I am right down the road from the Morgan Horse Farm in Weybridge. We got a far shot of snow with the last storm most now has a layer of ice over it.
I would swear that I felt it rolling and moving this morning. This was a few hours after the mare had had breakfast.

vtdobes

Mar. 12, 2009, 03:00 PM

Grand Illusions I sent you a PM.

Dawn J-L

Mar. 12, 2009, 03:01 PM

Wow, vtdobes and GrandIllusionSportHorses, I'm just north of Middlebury, too. (I'm in the south corner of Ferrisburgh right next to New Haven/Waltham)

GrandIllusionSportHorses, I can recommend some competent vets with repro experience. If this mare is indeed in foal then it would be prudent to have one on hand for foaling time and post foaling checks.

vtdobes

Mar. 12, 2009, 03:05 PM

Cool! I am about 2 miles south of Bristol on Rt 116.

vtdobes

Mar. 12, 2009, 03:07 PM

And actually I have one horse boarded for the winter in Waltham so I could keep up on her training this year. Not the mare due in May but her daughter from 04.

GrandIllusionSportHorses

Mar. 12, 2009, 03:46 PM

Thats not far from me when the clatter bridge is open. :) There are a lot of horses farms opening up in the area lately.

vtdobes

Mar. 12, 2009, 03:53 PM

Yeah that darn clatter bridge being closed is a nusance! My mare is over at Absolute Morgans for the winter.

GrandIllusionSportHorses

Mar. 18, 2009, 02:18 PM

So I have ordered a Wee Foal test it should be here by the end of the week.
Here are some pictures that I took this afternoon. Does she look any different to you guys?

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j179/Aagilbert/Picture110.jpg

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j179/Aagilbert/Picture116.jpg

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j179/Aagilbert/Picture115.jpg

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j179/Aagilbert/Picture114.jpg

rhogirl

Mar. 18, 2009, 02:43 PM

Honestly, she doesn't look very pregnant to me. If she was bred in may, she'd be about 9-10 months now (depending on when in may) and she just looks like a well fed horse to me. That's not to say that she isn't, all kinds of things can happen, but unless she really develops an udder, and you don't want to have the vet back out to re-check again, I'd say more likely then not, that she isn't. I think if you had the vet out recently, they'd be able to tell by this point. There could be any number of reasons for rubbing her tail etc. Just keep an eye on her, and look at the udder, and that should be a good indication.

Fairview Horse Center

Mar. 18, 2009, 06:11 PM

It certainly looks possible. Keep watching her udders.

GrandIllusionSportHorses

Mar. 18, 2009, 06:47 PM

Her udders have been up and down but not full anough to get excited. She looks bigger in the belly to me. She is not being feed anough to be gaining weight. She is getting 2 flakes of hay AM, lunch and PM, ad no grain at vet orders to make her udder go away because he says she is open. I have gone back and forth over weather or not to put her back on grain but have figured that shes not ribby so I will wait till I feel more sure of what is going on with her.

Fairview Horse Center

Mar. 18, 2009, 06:58 PM

I would put her on a ration balancer like Grow n Win. Then she will be getting the vitamins, minerals, and protein as the nutrients are very consentrated. I would give about 2 pounds per day.

asanders

Apr. 9, 2009, 08:08 PM

Just bumping this up for an update.

I made my guess the same time I filled out my NCAA bracket, and I was a winner there :cool:

Kenike

Apr. 9, 2009, 08:56 PM

It HAS been a while. Any news?

Ladybug Hill

Apr. 10, 2009, 06:09 AM

Honestly, she doesn't look very pregnant to me. If she was bred in may, she'd be about 9-10 months now (depending on when in may) and she just looks like a well fed horse to me.

I don't think she looks fat as far as weight. Her belly looks a bit bigger than her overall condition. I think I would be feeding her a bit more on the off chance she is in foal. If she is in foal, I think she will look thin once she foals.

Any news?

asanders

May. 6, 2009, 05:59 PM

Anyway, now I am invested in this will she or won't she, and I think we need a foaling pool so we can keep this thread alive and make sure GISH keeps us informed :)

I think she IS and the COLT will drop May 4th.

...but remember it's just the cold medicine talking.

So no colt I guess?