Sellers, what do you think about this?

[Forte]

Sellers/breeders, what do you think about this situation?
I recently looked at a young warmblood cross prospect for sale. This horse is located in a very remote location at a farm where there is no indoor, and they are under several feet of snow. Originally the plan was for me to fly into the nearest airport, rent a car and drive several hours to an indoor near the farm, where the seller would meet me with the horse. Things didn't work out to bring the horse to that indoor, and the seller very graciously trailered the horse to an indoor closer to the airport, which saved me several hours of driving. I really liked the horse, who is 4, broke to ride, but hasn't not been ridden since last fall due to winter weather. When I looked at the horse, the seller told me she was planning on raising the price soon. I told her that I had already made travel arrangements to see some other horses 1 month from now and could not make a decision until I had seen the other horses. She agreed to honour the original price until one month from now, when I've seen the other horses. here's my problem :
1. She just e-mailed me to say that the price will increase in 6 days. If I have not made a decision in 6 days, the price will go up $2000. The horse has not received any further training (he's not even under saddle currently), to warrant a price increase.
2. The nearest vet is 4 hours a way. If I want to have him vetted, I must pay her to trailer him to the clinic.
Although I fully appreciate the time and cost involved to trailer the horse to the vet, and I am aware that sellers can choose to change their price at any time, I cannot shake the feeling that something is wrong with this situation. Given the current economic climate, it seems like there are many sellers who are willing to negotiate on price, rather than jacking it up when the horse has not done anything to make it more valuable. Also, I understand the it will cost the seller gas and time to trailer the horse to the vet clinic, but why would I purchase a horse that I need to spend several hundred extra on to trailer to the vet, when there are so many horses for sale in less remote locations? I feel that if the seller is motivated to sell the horse, she should not charge me to take him to the vet clinic, or perhaps charge me only a nominal fee to cover gas? Or perhaps the trailering fee should be taken off the price of the horse if I end up purchasing it? What do you all feel is fair in this situation?

[RyTimMick]

I wouldn't vet a horse for $2000, and it sounds like they are raising the price to get you to move more quickly. In this environment, the power is yours. Take your time, you have it...

JMHO

[Sebastian]

It is what it is... She probably has another proverbial "bird in the hand." IF this makes you uneasy...let it go. Take it as a sign from the Universe that this is not "the one."

Good Luck in your search.
Seb :)


p.s. Never forget... The "art of the deal" is being able to walk away. If the seller is playing games...? The horse will still be there in a month. If she's got another buyer who's willing to "over pay," so be it. This is not the horse for you.

[Rhyadawn]

I'm not a seller, but my thoughts on that are that the "seller" is trying to force you into a sale. Maybe thinking that if she puts the pressure on you you will buy.

[EventerAJ]

Maybe the seller ISN'T that motivated to sell the horse?


Bottom line, it's her horse and she can sell it (or not sell it) at whatever price she chooses. It may not make logical sense to you, but perhaps there is a buyer out there who won't mind.

If you like the horse enough, try to negotiate with her but understand that it's her horse, her rules. Personally, if you end up buying the horse and if I was the seller I'd pay the trailering and be happy with your check. ;) But, from her perspective, if you DON'T buy the horse, she has to recover that expense... think about it, if 4 people end up vetting the horse, that's quite a bit of gas money and time back and forth. I think it's reasonable to expect a buyer to cover that; though, I know some sellers (GOOD agents!) who eat the cost simply as the price of doing business.

[Sabovee]

I'm wondering why you had to fly to see a warmblood X who isn't going under saddle - I'm not being snarky here, actually wondering if you were unable to find something suitable closer to you?

[ise@ssl]

Pass on the horse.
Not sure why anyone would be raising the price on a young horse when it's not in work and being trained. The market just isn't supporting that concept.

[rooroo8]

I'm no pro but in this market to increase the asking price by $2000 for no reason is a bit odd. I think they are hoping you cave in to the pressure and buy their horse before you can see the other horses. I'd walk away.

[TKR]

You know, a person is only as good as their word. If the seller gave you the time you asked at the same price to check your options and is going up prior to the agreed upon time frame, I would walk away on principle. I think it's as much about ethics as anything and if they agreed to that, they should do what they said they would. Unless this horse is really something special you can't live without I would tell them "no thanks" and tell them why if they ask. Sellers and buyers should abide by a code of ethics, although I realize they do not. But you also can pick and choose who you deal with or not. JMHO and good luck!
PennyG

[unclewiggly]

I am a seller and I have a horse whose price I have adjusted $2500. up from his not in work all winter bad economy price.
Now he is going back into work.
I made it very clear on my internet ads price increase would be effective 3/1.
I had a customer in "play". and I honoroed the orginal price until she gave me a definate "no".
And I will say if they change their minds (that kind of customer) the increase sticks.
As far as the vetting goes, I am taking it the vet won't schedule a time to go to her farm?? Does she not have a farm vet closer? While it can be a conflict of interest if they are willing to share his past history it can save you $$
I charge to drive if vetting is more than 1 hour away and frankly I just won't drive a horse 4 hours to be vetted its not in the horses best interest. 4 hours up 2-3 hours vetting and 4 hours back, hell've day.
If the horse passes the vetting and its truly a long haul I just want my gas money. If horse fails I want my gas and time compensated since I did not choose the vet so far from barn.
W/ digital machines vetting on site is so much easier and its way fairer to horse not to stand in a moving shaky box, jump off and be perfect.

[YankeeLawyer]

I have not read all the replies, but, with respect to the price increase, I would reiterate that you had an agreement not to raise the price for 1 month to allow you to see the other horses, and you expect that to be honored. I would say that you will be back in touch after seeing the others to let her know your decision, and if the horse is still available at the original price at that time and you are interested in buying him, then you hope you will be able to come to an agreement (I would deliberately be vague about what you actually plan to pay as I do think you should leave room to negotiate a lower price).

My guess is that this seller is panicking and wants to preclude you from seeing other horses, and due to a lack of sophistication in negotiating skills and perhaps a bit of greed, is going about this all wrong. Even in ideal circumstances (and selling in a remote location is not ideal), good horses are going to be tough to sell now as we are in the midst of the worst economic downturn since the Depression. It does bother me that the seller agreed to hold the price steady for you for 30 days and now is renegging on that, but I suspect that is more due to lack of sophistication in business dealings than dishonesty.

With respect to trailering the horse to the vet, I believe it would be fair for you to pay the gas and the PPE costs. She is in a remote location, but you knew that before seeing the horse and theoretically could buy without a PPE - PPEs are done by choice of the buyer. I don't think she should be out of pocket for that. In addition, apparently she did accommodate you once before by bringing the horse to an indoor near the airport, thus already saving you time and the cost of gas for that, which apparently you had been willing to pay.

[Indy-lou]

What Yankee Lawyer said...I agree with every point in his/her post. I am a firm believer that if you are uncomfortable buying without following through on your original intentions to look at other horses, you should walk away from pressure. Frankly, there are a lot of nice horses out there. Good luck!

[NoDQhere]

We are somewhat remote as well so these kinds of "happenings" always make me mad. To raise the price when a person is trying to put it together to see and/or PPE a horse is really "not acceptable" IMO.

We do sell horses off just the DVDs quite often, but many people do come to see them. We always give people a reasonable amount of time to get here and/or arrange the PPE.

We do have good Vet's within an hour or so, but would not think of charging to haul a horse for the PPE. That is part of the job if you are selling horses.

[MagicRoseFarm]

My gut is they are trying to force the sale,

I would thank them and tell them , that in light of their changes despite your interest, you must pass, but if they change their mind again and decide to honor your past agreement, ( and you have not yet found another suitable horse) you will be happy to consider him again.

[Forte]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I am not sure what the industry standard is as far as who pays to take the horse to the vet clinic for a PPE. Either way, these high pressure sales tactics are a real turnoff for me.
I think I'm going to pass on this horse.

[showjumpers66]

Industry standard is that the buyer is responsible for all costs related to the pre-purchase including transportation to and from the veterinary clinic, if necessary. It is not fair to expect the seller to take any of the costs related to the pre-purchase or travel to see the horse out of the sales price, but could possibly be something that is negotiated on at time of sale. It is possible that the seller is trying to push you to make a decision or has another buyer in the wings at the higher price. If this happens, I'll give the person who traveled to see the horse 24 hours to make a decision before the horse is made available to another purchaser. We have had a seller substantially raise a price on us just 2 weeks after initially receiving the video as they had a lot of serious interest in the horse and it was a bidding-like situation. We decided to purchase the horse regardless and have never regretted the decision. My advice is that if the horse has the "it" factor for you, then buy the horse. Otherwise, keep looking.

[ise@ssl]

We always quote prices on our horses and ponies. But we do require a SIGNED Agreement of Sale with a deposit before a horse is vetted. AND - if there is no signed Agreement of Sale in place we continue to market the horse/pony. Once the Agreement of Sale and deposit are in place the price is locked for that person and we don't market the horse/pony to anyone else. BUT the Vet exam must be done within a week. If the buyer wants the horse to bet vetted at a location other than our farm they are responsible for getting insurance to cover moving the horse and the cost of trailering back and forth.

I can see where this might be different in remote areas but in that case I feel the seller should have done some baseline x-rays that they can share with the buyers Veterinarian.

I feel the most problem arise when everything is being done verbally.

[Windswept Stable]

Well, I can see both sides here. The seller has the right to adjust prices - she is giving you warning. I have had buyers "play games" and draw things out so I do see her side as many lookers are "tire kickers".
If you are looking at other horses, then you must not feel "this is the one"..either you want it or you don't. If you can't say yes, after seeing it--then move on to the next one. If you feel the need to negotiate a price or lock a price in with this particular horse--then you need to be serious about it and ready to go. Because as of right now, you are still "playing the field" so to speak. And just as you have the right to look at others, the seller has the right to change her price if you are not willing to make a committment. It does not mean something is "fishy".
It does seem as if there is just as much spent flying around, renting cars etc... as you would spend to find one closer to home that costs a bit more.
After you are finished shopping, if you feel this one is the one and still available, then make an offer. Chances are due to the remoteness of the horse--it will still be standing there.
As a seller, I would not trailer it to the vet without a deposit and signed contract in hand. An all day event. And yes, if the horse vetted and was purchased, I would only charge out the amount of the gas.
Good luck !

[Signature]

My gut is they are trying to force the sale,

I would thank them and tell them , that in light of their changes despite your interest, you must pass, but if they change their mind again and decide to honor your past agreement, ( and you have not yet found another suitable horse) you will be happy to consider him again.

Ditto... they know you have a lot invested in looking at the horse and so you're not going to want to walk away with all those expenses empty-handed... BUT, I think that is kind of crappy. It's also crappy to raise the price suddenly when you have several people interested. That's just plain greedy.

Go with your gut. If something feels off, don't move forward. We learned to listen to our instincts when buying. I agree with the person who said the horse will probably still be there in a month anyway, and if not, it was not meant to be. Good luck!

[DRSsporthorses]

Its time to walk away. I realize the seller has given you time before the price increase, but the same seller also agreed to hold the price for you, so basically has reneged on that portion of the deal. I believe the seller is trying to 'pressure sell' the horse to you.

IMO, for a young, green horse with no winter work, no vet within a reasonable distance, and the economic climate, this is a No Go.

There are just too many nice horses, in work, and within a reasonable PPE distance to bother with this. TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS! I'm sure you can find another very nice horse without all the hassle and within your price range. Why go to all that trouble when you don't have to.

[YankeeLawyer]

We do have good Vet's within an hour or so, but would not think of charging to haul a horse for the PPE. That is part of the job if you are selling horses.

I do not agree that it is part of the job of the seller to haul a horse 4 hours to a vet and pay all expenses for gas. The PPE expenses are the buyer's not the sellers. If instead a vet were to come to the farm, he surely would charge a farm call fee, and that would be the buyer's expense. A seller might opt, as a courtesy, to participate in some of these costs, but ordinarily costs associated with a PPE are to be borne by the buyer.

[patch work farm]

To throw in my two cents here, I can see both sides.

First, let me say that most of the PPE's that have been done on horses I have for sale have been done on my farm. Only once did I take a mare elsewhere (and it was hair raising due to snow!) but it was 15 minutes from my farm (plus a few added minutes for the sliding all over) and I did not charge extra for it (should have thought about it later, I think I aged ten years and so did the other person with me!).

I also agree that if she promised to hold the price for you for 30 days then she should honor that and I would walk away from the sale too. As far as her raising the price while he is doing nothing, that was not the best idea but as the saying goes "a horse is worth whatever someone will pay for it". Maybe she has someone else looking at him and figured she would get the extra $2k from them?

All that said, I recently had someone come look at a mare I have for sale and I offered her to them at a lower price than I have on her, they did not respond so I told my trainer to forget it, I wasn't going to hold the price. They did come back to ride her a month later (I would have still honored that price). From what I understand they really liked her and were most impressed by her quality, but due to vacations couldn't give an answer right then. I went and picked her up, still haven't heard anything back and will no longer honor that offer. I have had several inquiries and shown her to two different trainers in the week since she came home and feel that I was more than fair in waiting for them to respond. What is a fair time to wait for a response?

In the OP's situation, they agreed to 30 days, what if there was no time frame ever discussed?

I know we are in the worst economic times ever but at what point does the seller say "no"? I guess it is a decision to make as to whether they want to sell or keep?

[can't re-]

I agree - she should honor the price for the timeframe agreed upon. I would walk away unless it was a horse I just had to have and the price was very reasonable.

Though I do think someone driving 8 hours RT and an hour or two at a clinic deserves to be compensated.