IHSA judges - frustrated...question?

[myalter]

Last weekend I competed in an IHSA show and my class was very large - so before I got on I got to watch the first 6 or so people in my class. I went in on my horse and laid down an amazing trip. However, when the placings were announced, I was placed 4th. I had watched 2 of the riders that placed higher than me and their rounds were not great. The girl who won rode a big beautiful equitation horse - but got deep to every. single. one. of her jumps. Meanwhile, I was on a smaller, more jumpery type, but put in a great, fluid round.
I normally wouldn't complain about this type of thing, because even when I think I put in a great round, I'm usually not able to compare it to anybody else's. But it's just frustrating to me that watching the winning ride I thought to myself how "sticky" and "blah" it looked.
I realize that drawing a more typey horse like that gives you an automatic advantage at IHSA shows - it shouldn't, but I'm not stupid - it automatically makes a better picture to the judge. However, having watched the girl's round I was confused and later looked at the judge's card. I thought I would be able to see SOME reasoning why I was placed where I was, but instead I get a blank line next to my number. Every single person had notes written down about them - except for me. What gives? Why would you have notes for every single person's round (in a class of 10+), except for ONE person?
Again, sorry for the rant proceeding the question - I was just frustrated because I really felt that I was overlooked - and then to see nothing next to my name to even give me an idea of what I could have done better? I'm just trying to understand what that's all about.

ETA - Please don't tell me it's the luck of the draw...haha! I understand that. I'm just a little frustrated because this whole season seems to have gone this way for me - and the one show that I actually draw a decent animal and put in an amazing trip, I feel as though I didn't get recognized for it.
Thanks!

[findeight]

Basically, it looks like you were just in the middle here. Nothing remarkable either way.

Best guess? You did not do anything wrong. But you did not do anything that resulted in a plus either so failed to impress.

This is equitation isn't it? It's all about position and managing the horse to an appropriate distance, not a Hunter round. If that other rider actually rode that horse to a deep spot all the way around, that was what she wanted and it probably allowed her to show off her strengths and great position because she did put him deep. He had to jump up harder, and probably better then from a regular spot if he was a flat jumper, might have been her plan.

Your fluid round was more Huntery and, although correct, did not show you off as much as what was probably a harder horse to get around. And there may have been a swap at the base or something you did not feel on a strange horse or it simply did not have a great jump to showcase you.

Thing is, it's a show not a test. And it is just somebody's opinion that may have been too busy watching to make notes on anything that wasn't very good or an obvious blunder.

It is a mistake to dwell on these things and will hold you back if you worry about what everybody else did-in your own opinion. You got a decent ribbon in that class, move on.

[FarnleyGarnet]

Ah the luck of the draw in IHSA. It evens out over time. Everyone who does IHSA feels like they didn't get rewarded for a good round at one point. But guess what? One day you'll pin higher than you expeced to. Guaranteed. And maybe that time will come at Regionals, Zones or Nationals. :)

Did you ask your coach for his/her opinion after your trip? Maybe he/she noticed something that you didn't? I know that you called your ride "fluid" on a jumper type horse... could the judge have seen it as "quick" or "rushed"? Did you go bold and take the big distance at any of the fences? Did you do a 5 in a line while most others went slower and did the 6? If the strides aren't posted on the course it is up to the rider to decide what is the correct number of strides. If you did 5 and the judge felt 6 strides was the better option I could see you being penalized.

Sometimes in IHSA the judges prefer the rider who sits up and waits for the close distance over the rider who speeds up and goes for the long spot. Remember, some IHSA horses are older or may have soundness/joint issues that would make moving up to a long spot the less safe option and some judges won't reward it. The judge may have rewarded the rider who won because she was consistent and chose to ride to the base throughout the course.

The fact that you placed 4th in a class of 10+ makes me think that the judge did watch your trip. I don't think he/she missed your trip completely. It just may have been obvious to the judge that you were better than the rider who was 5th but not as good as the rider who was 3rd. No additional comments were needed.

Chin up! At least you have 3 more points than you did going in to the show. And like I said before... the luck of the draw/kharma/ju-ju/whatever evens out over time.

[piaffequeen]

It may also be the judge-when I competed in IHSA (so very long ago!) we had one judge who bascially knew most of the riders and chose them even if they had horrible rides.

My most memorable was one rider in the open class wasn't paying attention and ran his horse into the door of the indoor proceeded to jump the course (his horse was a saint) and won the class! :eek:

[MHM]

The rider's position comes into play in an equitation class, so some judges will give the edge to a rider with an excellent position over a solid trip with a lesser position.

Also, at IHSA shows, if the judge sees the same horses several times, s/he might give a rider bonus points for doing a much better job on a horse than the previous riders, or take off points for having more trouble than previous riders.

[ThePerfectFit]

I just did an IHSA show this weekend, laid down a great trip on a good draw horse and got 5th out of 18. Onto my flat class, and I didnt pin out of 11. I was so confused I thought I did well, and after watching the tape, I STILL dont understand what happened. Definitely thought there were better riders than me, but some pinned that I though shouldnt have.

Sometimes its like what the judge likes. Like my friends call me broken ankles because my heels go so far down. At our show, I brought the judges card to the stand and next to my number it said "GREAT HEELS!" and I was placed first, I think the judge personally liked that.

Maybe you didnt release as much as the judge liked, maybe your leg wasnt as strong. With IHSA and any equitation is ALL what the judge prefers and likes. Although your round was more consistant, maybe the girl on the eq horse was ASKING for the deep spot, sometimes the judges like to see you ASKING to do something (not just sitting there and looking pretty). Sometimes it works against you, sometimes to your advantage...

[3rdrock]

IHSA, the test of patience:for riders, coaches, horses and most of all judges. IHSA is tough, every draw, every weekend is different. This is what makes it unique. So, the question, is was it that the judge just prefered rider #1 over you and two others? Did rider #1 do an inside turn just a little better than you? Did rider #1 look like she was asking questions and getting the correct answers out of her horse. Did you have a nice position, but just a fluid round? Did you leg bobble a little over an oxer? Did you lean left or right over the jump? Did rider no.1 make a choice that other wise would have been an ugly fence and the judge could see her making that choice, executing it, and have it work out nicely. That sometimes get nice bonus points. Did she trot into the ring with authority and make the judge really pay attention? Don't beat yourself up, more no stirrup time, strengthen those legs, and yep, maybe you get bonus points at regionals, that gets you to zones etc... Remember even if you toes touch your knees, are they super strong effective legs?

Not all judges are great juges, but as a spectator, unless you sit and watch and write down every note, on every fence, on every round, you can't judge how the judge pinned. Looking at the judges card only gives you a snapshot, you don't know what the judge really was thinking.

Good luck with IHSA

[Hunter DQ]

Remember that not only in IHSA, but in all horse showing sometimes Christmas comes early. This time someone else got their Christmas early. I was at an IHSA show mid February and put in an "eh" round. I came in crooked to the first fence in a bending line, and got left behind at a single. Quite embarassing. I ended up get 2nd. I placed over a girl who is a really good rider who had a really smooth, pretty course. I guess my Christmas came early. It happens everywhere. I've been in classes at schooling hunter shows where I got all my strides and leads, and didn't place against riders who had to bring their horse down for a simple change. But once I won a western pleasure 4H class (long time ago) even when my appy mare stumbled and blew her lead in front of the judge. The judge was an appaloosa breeder. My Christmas again. We're not curing cancer. We're showing horses. I wish all judges were consistent and fair with their placings, but we don't always know what they're looking for and what they actually saw.

[findeight]

Not all judges are great juges, but as a spectator, unless you sit and watch and write down every note, on every fence, on every round, you can't judge how the judge pinned.


Unless you were sitting next to them in the box/truck/whatever, you won't see what they saw. Sometimes what look like perfect trips are not, you just didn't see the dragging lead behind, swap at the base or the rider lose that iron for a second.

Most judges are on the level and really try to be fair. But based on their opionion of what they see from where they sit.

[Irish Ei's]

The luck of the draw also pertains to Judges !!
An Official who is a Jumper Judge in "real " life will gravitate to the Jumpery rider or horse.

Over the course of the year, our judges see our horses many times.
And so have the coaches, riders, and stewards.

You have probably had the opportunity to see your horse go before, in another division, or under another rider.

Our team stays glued to Coaches side at the rail. The draws have been made, and the Team watches each drawn horse go throughout the day to see what today's ride should be like.

Watch your warm-ups. Watch your draw during the day. Pay attention to who the Judge is pinning.

Alot of learning happens on the ground..Take advantage of it.

[LearnToFly]

just curious, which division are you in?

the only explanation I have for you is that sometimes it just happens. I placed second with a near-perfect round at my last show behind a girl who cross-cantered a fence... And pinned the next day when i shouldn't have after chipping 4 fences and a late lead change. A lot of it just depends on what the judge is looking for; if your judge likes consistency and the girl that won was a little deep to every fence consistently, then maybe that's why.

[Daventry]

Unless you were sitting next to them in the box/truck/whatever, you won't see what they saw. Sometimes what look like perfect trips are not, you just didn't see the dragging lead behind, swap at the base or the rider lose that iron for a second.



Exactly! :yes:

[myalter]

Thanks for all the input everyone. I know that IHSA is luck of the draw - it was just frustrating because I have no idea what the judge was looking for. I didn't even get into what pinned in my flat classes or some of the other classes I watched throughout the day (and I watched most of them). It was just such a confusing day.
I just felt as though in my class the girl that won didn't ask for anything..all of the distances came up deep - not a nice deep, the kind of deep that looks sticky and bad. And I show at a high enough level to know when something is being asked for and when nothing is happening up there. She had nice equitation, but at my level you're expected to ride, not just get over the jumps and look pretty. (And after watching my video, I'm certain I had both, lol)
I know sometimes you get ribbons you don't deserve, and sometimes you don't get ribbons you deserve. But the latter has been happening to me ALL season. I'm just frustrated I guess. Hopefully my luck will turn around at regionals because if not, I'm stuck with another 4th and I'm SOL :lol:
Irish - I am in Open, so usually not much time to watch my horses.. this year for some reason we don't see a lot of the same horses at the shows. The only chance I usually have is in schooling, which can be helpful or unhelpful, depending who is warming them up. I actually got to watch my horse go at this show with a different rider in my class and I think that is a lot of the reason why I rode it so well.
But ohhh well, I guess I just had to vent about it a little... I hope that my luck turns around at regionals!

[Molly99]

How did the other rider that rode your horse do in the same class? I found when I did IHSA, many years ago, that when a horse is used twice, those two riders seem to get compared to each other more than to the rest of the class. ie, if you rode him first, the other had to ride him BETTER to get a ribbon. Just another thought to keep in mind.

I loved IHSA, but hated it at the same time for the various reasons you have listed. Much harder to judge you progress/potential in IHSA.

[spaceagejuliet]

I did IHSA for a while, and it IS hard.

I've gotten great ribbons on mediocre draws because the judges were usually instructed to look for a rider who was actively riding and learning her mount.
I've gotten no ribbon on the 'draw of the class' because didnt connect with him well--I knew he was a good ride and sat on him passively and let him tote my butt around to a clean, but average, ride.

[2DaPoint]

Having lived the IHSA experience on many levels.... First as a rider (OH so many years ago), then as a Coach at Virginia Intermont (also eons ago), and now as a consultant and consolationist for riders of mine that I send out into the real world to compete here and there across the country.
So, you ride Open?
That tells me you've been riding a good long while..... and probably also have developed some less-than-textbook equitation habits.
Maybe this particular judge just HATES broken wrists, or flat hands, or open fingers, or grippy knees, or turned-out toes, or slightly roached backs, or too-arched backs, or somebody who doesn't SIT, or somebody who sits too much.....
As a Judge, I distinctly recall one show where I placed a rider whose toes stuck out a bit more than is perfect, but she had a lovely upper body position, a beautiful correct release, her leg never moved, and she laid down the smoothest, most consistent round of anybody that came in the ring that day. One rider was complaining to her mom as she came by the truck in which I was sitting about how much better her equitation was than the rider who won.
I agreed to myself, but the complaining rider also seriously chipped a couple of jumps and it was absolutely pilot error on her part that caused the horse to miss the distance so badly.
Now, the rider who won over fences did not do as well on the flat, whereas the complaining rider DID.
It's not just luck of the draw, it's juding what comes in the ring that day.
I agree with FindEight: You weren't bad, you weren't great.
One of my students that I sent off to college happens to have Scoliosis in her upper-most back. This causes her to look as if she's hunched over, when her chest and stomach are quite obviously stretched and lifted. She lamented that she wasn't chosen for her IHSA team the first two years...... although she ended up being the Team President by her Senior year, and frequently won Over Fences in the Open division. She is a GREAT rider, just not "Equitation-y" enough for some judges, especially not on the flat.
WHATEVER....................
IHSA is a nice pasttime to get you through college, but trust me, it has little to no bearing on you as a horseman, and very little to reflect on you for the rest of your life.
A drop in the bucket if you will.
Have fun, enjoy your team, that's really what it's all about.
KD

[RockinHorse]

I know sometimes you get ribbons you don't deserve, and sometimes you don't get ribbons you deserve. But the latter has been happening to me ALL season. I'm just frustrated I guess.

I truly don't mean to be harsh but if this is true, IMHO, you probably need to look at your self more critically because it sounds like you may not be laying down the great trips you think you are.

[slp]

IHSA is a nice pasttime to get you through college, but trust me, it has little to no bearing on you as a horseman, and very little to reflect on you for the rest of your life.
A drop in the bucket if you will.
Have fun, enjoy your team, that's really what it's all about.
KD

I so agree with what you said here. My daughter shows IHSA in Open, and for the first half of this year she wasn't placing well on the flat (although she was doing fine over fences). It was getting very frustrating for her since she couldn't figure out what she was doing that the judges didn't seem to like, and neither could her coach or others watching from the ground.
My advice to her was just ride, have fun, and if you do well then great; if you don't so what. Sometimes you get a great horse that pins every rider high, sometimes you get the draw that always finishes last...but do it because it is fun.
The last two shows of the season she went into the ring with this attitude and finished 2nd and 1st on the flat. :) Go figure. :lol:

[horserider12]

A little of topic, but good luck to everyone at regionals! let us know how you do.

[MaddJumper88]

thanks horserider :)

[AGRHJRider]

This is an interesting thread. I was involved with the IHSA throughout my college career and did fairly well. The main point is to get the best performance out of your catch ride.
It's an interesting format bc you should have a clean round, and you are also being judged on your eq. IMHO the clean rounds are the ones that place, it almost seems more important to find your distances and strides because you are being tested on your efficiency and effectiveness as a rider.
I do agree that some judges may be slightly preferential to things such as guy riders, blondes etc... lol but delivering a good round is universal.
Keep up the work and remember its just a few minutes out of your life, a placing isn't a permanent reflection of your riding. To me the best parts about IHSA were the drives back and forth to shows and being with friends. Its a blast, i truly miss it.

[AGRHJRider]

LOL! also remember to be very selective about what you say about who, and where you say it. i.e.- judges, trainers, other riders
Things like that can come to bite you in the a$$ when you least expect it.
:winkgrin:

[Roxy SM]

To me the best parts about IHSA were the drives back and forth to shows and being with friends. Its a blast, i truly miss it.

This is exactly why I stopped doing IHSA! I expected to have to ride crappy horses and sometimes be judged unfairly, the reason I wanted to do it was because I thought it would be fun socially to be on the team! Unfortunately I was wrong. I did great at the shows, won a lot in the Open despite not riding at all except at the shows, but I couldn't stand most of the people on my team! And the drives to the shows were always at least 6 hours each way and it was torture being with them constantly for a whole weekend. I also found the many of theother girls in my classes from other teams to be very catty and immature. Like they would actually give me mean looks if I said hi or complimented them on their shirt. There was one team with which I became friends with, they were all so great and we instantly got along and I always wished I could be on their team or at least drive to and from the shows with them!

[Irish Ei's]

A little of topic, but good luck to everyone at regionals! let us know how you do.


Amen to that !! :yes::cool::D

[Movin Artfully]

Also a former IHSA competitor and then coach for several years...

I routinely told my Open riders that I expected them to watch the remaining over fences classes and then tell me what that judge was placing if they were unhappy with their ribbon. I can tell you that I found there to be very few shows in a 6 year period where either 1) the judge was inappropriate or 2) a clear pattern failed to show up (we were normally able to alert the rest of the team of the judges stylistic preferences within 1-2 classes).

You are right...you are at a disadvantage being in the first go-round. If you are truly qualified for open- you ought to be up to it :) With regionals coming up- I would very seriously compare your riding to that of the whomever is leading Open Level Riding for your Region- and that ought to be an honest indicator of where you need work!

GOOD LUCK AT REGIONALS! :D