Now this is what I call a jumper! WOW!!!

[faraway46]

Found this on YouTube. Amazing stallion. Can't recall the last time I saw a horse so light and agile...I think we'll see plenty of him in the future! Superstar quality indeed!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmGOjKokz6I&playnext_from=PL&feature=PlayList&p=8CC9E15BFEB28228&playnext=1&index=12

PS: ...and if you check L'Arc de Triomphe 's kin they all have the same spring and fantastic back end...now that's a stallion!

[MHM]

If they sell him, they should throw in a case of Saddle-tite! :lol:

[dghunter]

:eek: :eek: :eek: I would need two things of saddle-tite!!! lol. But he looks awesome! I can't believe how much he's clearing it by! Can't wait to see what he turns out to do :)

[dwblover]

Forget Saddle-Tite, they had better throw in a saddle with a seatbelt for whoever buys that horse!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[saitou_amaya]

Forget Saddle-Tite, they had better throw in a saddle with a seatbelt for whoever buys that horse!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jesus, no kidding! But what a beautiful mover and beautiful jump!!

[steelerino]

Can you imagine trying to stay with this horse over a jump :eek:....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqG4PNbmSfQ&feature=related

[cobiemurphy]

I don't know.. I'm probably going to get shot down for this, but here goes..

I'm not actually that keen on these two horses. Yes, the scope is impressive, but effective? Practical? Not really.

I've seen the video of the second horse before and it failed its approval at Zangerheide, because the jumping technique was deemed neither natural or useful. From memory they believed that the horse had been rapped? As the above posters mentioned, imagine trying to stay on over the jumps... and isn't that the point of a decent jumper, something that can be ridden effectively and easily at large heights?

[HunterJumperGin]

I kind of agree with you, CM. Seems like they would take so long with that hang time to get around a course. Impressive animals though for sure. Especially that first one's trot. :eek:

[Foxtrot's]

I'm always a bit suspicious when a horse jumps that high - way higher over a jump than normal 'greenness'. It doesn't seem natural.

[cobiemurphy]

I'm always a bit suspicious when a horse jumps that high - way higher over a jump than normal 'greenness'. It doesn't seem natural.

Yep, me too. Fair enough if it's a young horse going over it's first few cross rails.. but a horse of that calibre shouldn't naturally be going that high over an already substantial sized jump.
And apparently the classification people agreed, with the suspicions of rapping or other not-so-pleasant training techniques.

[copper1]

I agree with the above but I also wonder that given the time under saddle would the jump level out somewhat? (he jumped the little jumps softly without over jumping)At least if you got into trouble over lower stuff, you KNOW he could get you out of trouble!

[tikidoc]

Playing the devil's advocate for a moment. I have a gelding who does this kind of thing when free jumped, especially when it has been a while since his last time free jumping. And while he does tend to overjump a little under saddle at times (he is still fairly green, and he usually does it just when he has not been recently jumped) it is never to the extent of what he does in the chute. He has never been rapped (or endured any other questionable training "technique"), he just has a blast jumping.

Regardless, the videos are fun to watch. Effective or not, they are amazing athletes.

[kashmere]

If I remember correctly, the second video was posted here not too long ago, and there was quite a bit of discussion over whether the horse had been rapped/poled, etc. I believe the general consensus was the he jumped like a horse who had been subject to those things. (Clearly, all conjecture, but still - not too appealing. Also, i might be wrong. My forum-search skills are terrible.) I agree that the second horse's jump looks quite uncomfortable and unnatural.

The first horse, on the other hand - while I wouldn't have a hope in h*** of staying with him (!)- looks to me to have that jump more naturally, and his movement is gorgeous, from the little bit we get to see.

[fordtraktor]

Some young horses just overjump when they are babies. They aren't sure how high they have to go to clear things, and they are careful enough that they don't want to take any chances. My jumper is one of those. He didn't start jumping with the appropriate amount of effort until he was about 7. Until then, we have ridiculous pictures of him clearing the 6' standards over 2'6. I like to see a bit of overjump in a youngster, to me it can be a strong indicator of carefulness.

You would never, ever pole a horse with that kind of worry about hitting the jumps, because you would destroy its already-tenuous confidence. Of course, some unethical people might pole an uncareful horse to make them look better. See, e.g., the debate over horse 2.

The one thing I don't like about horse 1 is that I think it jumps a bit tied-up behind. I prefer to see a bit of kick in the air instead of one that folds its hind legs under it.

[faraway46]

Ok guys, here is a video of the Qlassic Bois Margot stallion ridden and jumped under saddle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDIaUCp_2AQ


As you can see, he has a thrusty jump but not as exagerated as the chute....and their is a mortal that can stay on his back ;)...
I still think we will see more of this fellow in the future!

PS: as for the back end, it did seem a little tucked under, but I think it's because of the angle of the tape. In the ridden video he seems to have a great style and flexibility.

[fordtraktor]

Agree, he looks much better in the ridden video, no evidence of being tied up behind. I don't think that is an excessive amount of overjump for a youngster at all.

[LetsChat]

I don't know.. I'm probably going to get shot down for this, but here goes..

I'm not actually that keen on these two horses. Yes, the scope is impressive, but effective? Practical? Not really.

I've seen the video of the second horse before and it failed its approval at Zangerheide, because the jumping technique was deemed neither natural or useful. From memory they believed that the horse had been rapped? As the above posters mentioned, imagine trying to stay on over the jumps... and isn't that the point of a decent jumper, something that can be ridden effectively and easily at large heights?

I agree, I think they are both hanging the knees a little, I would prefer the same height with snappy knees, they are more like hurling themselves over the jumps. Could be the stridings are tight or that they are young but I have seen better freejumping examples.

[dags]

I remember the 2nd chute horse, nice follow up to hear he was not approved. Poled or not (and I agree he probably was) that jump was "useless" in any effective since.

Both horses in the chute jump with terrible arcs, straight up then straight down. Hard to tell if the chute is set to encourage this, the 1st one set practically in the corner seems to, but I would prefer to see them jumping out-of-stride a bit more, and hopefully get a more practical arc out of them.

Compare either of these horses to Ward's Sapphire, whom I had the pleasure of watching win the FEI Qualifyer saturday night. Obviously she represents what will actually win, and is possibly one of the most effective jumpers I've ever seen- for both ergonomic and speed purposes. Kappler's big grey is similar. Both looked like they were riding Medal rounds. It was a welcome relief to all of the abrupt move-ups, desperate flapping, and huge efforts that resulted in heaps on landing that permeated some of the field. Urbanus is ridiculously effective considering his size.

Sadly, I liked the black horse better before I saw the ridden video. Hard to tell anything from the 15 strides there, but they seemed way up in his face, and he appeared weak behind and heavy in front, causing him to jump right over his knees.

[faraway46]

I have to disagree with Dags, but as a poster has in their sig: "two horsepeople-three opinions".
I think most horses that green and with that build are usually top heavy at first. They learn how to carry themselves with balance later. I am sure Sapphire didn't know what balance was all about from scratch.
IMHO I think it is important that the horse has lightness when jumping, which is something you can't fabricate if it's not there. Later you teach a horse how to carry itself to the jump. And of course he is going to have a different jump ridden than in the chute: green horses are not accustomed to carry the "knapsack" over the jump immediately, they need time. I can see in the ridden video that the horse has lightness when he starts the jump through his shoulder...at least nice flexibility for a 4 y.o. greenie...
Now agility, scope, movement are things you maybe can improve a wee bit, but not add if it's not there. Balance you can improve much, with the right groundwork, exercises and bit. The huge jump will go away with experience. The good thing is that you can see from scratch, if the horse is brave enough, the force and scope to tackle Grand Prix jumps is there. The rest will setlle with time in the hands of a capable rider.
What can I say, I think the stallion is really something. IMHO.

[Couture TB]

You know I use to be impressed by these horses in these videos. That was until I went to be a student at a BNT huge show jumping stable in Germany. All of their horses jumped liked that, and I have never seen so much abuse in my life. Poles wrapped in barbwire, poles that have electic wires on them, horses that were so scared when they heard a clucking noise they climbed up the walls. Beautiful stable, beautiful horses, and I could not get out of their fast enough! And I want to point out the things I saw all happend on the first day I was there. Later when talking with a woman who use to event in England and now lives in the states, she said when she went to Germany to train under a dressage trainer that what I saw is typical in the jumper barns.

[dags]

More then welcome to disagree faraway :) even better to post explanations with the opinions, because we are all here to discuss and learn. It's nice to see it go that way :)

I don't think it's the horse I'm not in favor of, more the ways it's being presented. I'm no expert at setting big jumping shoots, but the way they set that one in the corner, so that he's practically bouncing off the wall coming in, with little room to regather balance, straightness and impulsion before the jumping effort- I think that took away from the ability to see what his style is like from a more natural, forward moving stride.

As for the riding bit, would prefer to see him doing something that required less rider involvement if he's too green to carry his balance on his own. Set that big oxer coming out of a line, or further down the ring so there's a chance to get out of his way before the fence. Canter straight into the small one-stride instead of trying to make it a bending line off the big oxer set right out of the corner. Honestly, he just doesn't look like he's been schooled up from behind yet, and lacks the strength to carry his weight properly, hence all the support they are trying to give him up front . . . which I feel is limiting his shoulder.
Just my two cents :)

[Jealoushe]

and that my friends, is how I broke my face. Rocket launched out of the saddle on a jumper like that.:cool:

[Valeureux]

what a gorgeous jump!

[Equitate.]

He's so round and springy but at the same time so light:yes:

[whbar158]

I actually prefer to watch and ride horses that don't jump that hard or really put their neck THAT far down, to me the first horses front end is a little underneath its self (although I think a lot of that is how the thing is set up). As much as it is really impressive to watch one like that on their own, watching a hunter round like that is less smooth. In the jumper ring it might not be as fast of a time because it takes soooo much time in the air. I like one to use its neck but not feel like its ducking out from under me.

[Parker_Rider]

You know I use to be impressed by these horses in these videos. That was until I went to be a student at a BNT huge show jumping stable in Germany. All of their horses jumped liked that, and I have never seen so much abuse in my life. Poles wrapped in barbwire, poles that have electic wires on them, horses that were so scared when they heard a clucking noise they climbed up the walls. Beautiful stable, beautiful horses, and I could not get out of their fast enough! And I want to point out the things I saw all happend on the first day I was there. Later when talking with a woman who use to event in England and now lives in the states, she said when she went to Germany to train under a dressage trainer that what I saw is typical in the jumper barns.

omg, cringing!!!!!! that is AWFUL!!! I have no other words for that. it's so sad how some of these guys are trained...
As for the horses, I like the 1st one under saddle.. he's appropriate for a 4 year old and absolutely gorgeous. Like a lot of others have said, the 2nd one just looks unnatural and I would never want to get on that thing, even over a 3' fence. with 2 sticks of saddle-tite. and a seat belt. haha :)

[Couture TB]

[QUOTE=Parker_Rider;3935635]omg, cringing!!!!!! that is AWFUL!!! I have no other words for that. it's so sad how some of these guys are trained...


Yes and that is why I left. We joke about my 'weekend in Germany' anything that place could teach me I didn't want to learn.

[faraway46]

More then welcome to disagree faraway :) even better to post explanations with the opinions, because we are all here to discuss and learn. It's nice to see it go that way :)


It's always a pleasure to debate with you Dags! :)
Viv

[Horseymama]

I have to agree with Dags, looks like a nice horse, but he isn't well presented. The two-stride is set short and he gets there deep and jumps over his shoulder. He looks like he is quite powerful, but he is flinging himself over the jumps under saddle. He needs a lot more work learning to carry himself, and not that it can't be done, but the truly, truly nice one's are the one's that carry themselves more naturally from the get-go.

[Sithly]

and that my friends, is how I broke my face. Rocket launched out of the saddle on a jumper like that.:cool:

Two horses are standing out by the water trough. One says to the other, "So how do you get your rider broke in the face?"

[europa]

Then you obviously missed this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqG4PNbmSfQ&feature=related

[Jealoushe]

Two horses are standing out by the water trough. One says to the other, "So how do you get your rider broke in the face?"

lol

Guess I learnt the answer!

[Couture TB]

Like I said, all I can say is I have seen how one of the top trainers who is at a stud farm does the training for these horses and there is a reason they jump like that. Not practical and not natural.