Katherine Baumen

[MajMeadowMorgans]

Anyone know a Katherine Baumen/Pioneer Valley Stables in TN? Originally from Wisconsin, Oldenbergs? Just wondering, as I may take some lessons with her.

PM's if you want. Thank you!

[Mariesonny]

Hi there.

I know Katherine. I have not taken any lessons from her but I have been to her farm and been around her at shows. She is a lovely person. Very supportive of me even though I am not her student. Very supportive of kids and seems that way with her students. Definately not one of those snarky types of people. Her farm is also very nice. Nice footings in the rings. Very into people learning too as she hosts all kinds of things at her farm.

Nothing wrong with her for me but she is simply not as advanced as my current instructor. I take lessons from Debbie Hill in Huntsville Alabama. Debbie is a ways to travel but it is a distance for me either way since I am farther south.

Good luck. I hope you enjoy your lessons.

[sweet]

I absoulouty DO NOT recomend Kathryn Bauman for any training, teaching or care of any horse. PLEASE, We have many great dressage trainers and hunter trainers in the Nashville area with WONDERFUL spotless records.

This would be a BIG mistake. :confused:

[slc2]

What has she done that is so bad?

She says right on her website she started in dressage at age 40, so she's very honest about that - I see pictures of one lesson, a longe lesson, with a properly equipped and well matched looking horse and rider being longed properly. What exactly is so bad about this woman?

[sweet]

I quote, the list is long and distinguished from Wisconsin to Tennessee.

[Saracatherine]

Katherine is very active in her GMO and does alot of wonderful things for the club and the sport. I've seen her with her students at shows and she seems very professional. She may not ride or train at the upper levels, but appears to be qualified for the clientele she works with.

If you have unkind things to say about a trainer or have had a bad experience, I think it would be best to PM the OP.

[MelantheLLC]

I have no idea who this person is, but yeah it's very bad form to diss someone in a public forum w/o giving some very very strong evidence. And even then it's better to keep it to pm's.

[Touchstone Farm]

Isn't it interesting how you can say wonderful things about someone, but if you have a viewpoint other than saccharine sweet (no pun intended sweet!) you must be do it in a PM? Hopefully the OP is getting other POVs via PMs.

[MelantheLLC]

No, it's just not fair to give such a negative public response without specific reasons known personally to the poster.

If you were on the other end, you would realize why.

[Touchstone Farm]

Yes, you're right.Same goes for commenting on stallions, I guess.

[slc2]

You're wrong about that. 'I don't like the type of a stallion' is not the same as 'This person starved a horse and beat it, and sold a dangerous horse to a beginner who subsequently was seriously injured, skipped town and almost got chucked out of her own GMO'.

Those two things are LIGHT YEARS apart, and you KNOW IT. TRY not to turn this discussion into a grudge over someone saying something critical about a stallion.

What was sent me in a PM, was that this woman has beaten, starved horses, cheated people, sold dangerous horses to beginners. Do I know if any of these are true? No. If they are false? No.

The person also said Bauman is being sued for some horse dealings or abuse, the subject of the suit was not clear.

I found I think 4 closed cases in Wisconsin for Kathryn Bauman/John Bauman plaintiffs. One a small claims court of 77 dollars, one case I believe involved a plumber or construction company, for somewhat more money, and one with a veterinary clinic, for just under six thousand dollars. None of those cases suggest any issue of animal cruelty or ripping people off; a vet bill of six thousand dollars does sound strange, but it's conceivable there is a legitimate dispute; one way or the other, it was settled and closed.

There was a sale of unredeemed land in Wisc, and the sale of their property and much farm and horse equip in Wisc.

I thought she had been showing in AA classes, but checked usef, and no, they were just combined classes with scores listed together on a club site, the usef has her entries as being in open classes, which is where she should be if she's a paid professional. She appears to own a couple horses, on one, scored everywhere last year from 53 to 72 % at training and first level, on another, scored everywhere from 48% to 77 percent at first and second, with another horse at second and third level, scores posted are in the mid fifties.

I do know one thing; two people here despise this woman and have been PM'ing me all day, one telling me I MUST phone her, for 'proof'. I'm not clear on what proof one can give over the phone, that one is unwilling to present on a bulletin board.

I think what people don't understand is that unless they are on the jury of a case, they are rather free to discuss a pending court case, as long as they don't lie about it.

Further, if there WERE some legal problem with discussing the case, what makes you think it's fine to discuss it so much more freely in PM than on the bb?

[Touchstone Farm]

Whoa, Slick, get down off your high horse. You seem to be making an assumption that I have sent a PM on this topic...which I have not.

And of course, talking about a person and a stallion is not exactly the same. My point was not saying something as vague as that isn't my "type of stallion," but rather that stallion throws crooked legs, is dangerous, passes on a lethal chromosome, etc. And that, like with people discussions, people tend to PM on those criticisms than he's not my "type."

And another assumption about turning this into a grudge over a stallion? Where did THAT come from? I have no grudges over any living or dead stallion. Why would I? Why would I care? And why would YOU care?

Saying you, SLC, are not my cup of tea is more in line with saying, that's not my type of stallion. Not at all near the other allegations and background you attribute to the person the OP is asking about. Now people will REALLY be wondering about the person the OP was asking about. And I bet she's really thanking you for your "help."

[slc2]

"You seem to be making an assumption that I have sent a PM "

Where did I EVER say that, assume that, state that, imply that? I have been getting pm's from two people, neither of them were you. I think most people here don't think you would involve yourself in such a thing.

And I know nothing about any stallion, and I don't think any complaining or anything else about a stallion has any similarity to allegations of cruelty, bad business or sharp dealings. That is on a WHOLE different level than some unsuspecting, ignorant beginner getting a horse that winds up hurting them. I have NO idea what axe you have to grind about what stallion, but it would be more at home to grind axes about stallions on the Sport Horse BReeding forum than here, :)

"Helped" this person. I have absolutely no interest in 'helping' this person and I have said nothing that
helped her, quite the contrary.

Merely shown that there is nothing about any of these alleged cruelty or bad dealings problems readily accessible to consumers.

What my point is is this and only this, exactly what Mellanthe said: If one want to say negative things about someone on a web site, and then duck into pm's, one will NOT be viewed as any better than the person one is accusing. That and I wonder about someone who is so eager to talk in PM, but not on the bb - there is no legal difference.

[Touchstone Farm]

SLC, perhaps next time be more specific with whom you are referring to by "you." And if you'll note, I put "help" in quotes, which implies I knew you weren't really helping. Just wanted to explain, quotes can imply sarcasm.

Again, why do you keep bringing up some mysterious stallion grudge? You wrote, "I have NO idea what axe you have to grind about what stallion, but it would be more at home to grind axes about stallions on the Sport Horse BReeding forum than here." Why are you now making up something out of the blue? Please read what I wrote in my prior posting: "I have no grudges over any living or dead stallion." And maybe one more time so you don't miss it: "I have no grudges over any living or dead stallion." Okay, just one more time for the heckuva it: "I have no grudges over any living or dead stallion." What's up anyway? I mean, I say enough stupid things on my own, why are you making things up for me?

Okay, I think we've gotten enough off the original topic to the point of stupid, so I'll sign off and let this thread go its own merry way. Perhaps it should even be closed or deleted.

[Hidden Pond Farm]

Well, I only know Katherine through my old friend and mentor, Col. Von Ziegner. When she was here in Wi, he taught at her place for several years and always tried to get me to bring my horses there. I would choose to ride with him in Milwaukee instead, since the barn owner there was an old and dear friend of mine and it was a great way to catch up with everyone. Didn't have the $$ for two clinics with him, but I'm sure if she as so nasty, he wouldn't have recommended I visit him there too.

Anyway, as for SLC2 vs. Touchstone farm.....SLC, I just have to ask....Do you actually RIDE??? I mean, how could you possibly find time to do the CSI investigation on poor Ms. Bauman and ride too? No one can have that much time in the world to do both!

[slc2]

CSI Investigation? I did about 2 internet searches, and spent a total of two minutes. If a person has any real criminal activity, it is usually surfaces very quickly. I spent more time attempting to respond to the multiple nasty PM's about this woman. These two women HATE her. Are they right? Are they being fair to her? I have no idea. For every trainer someone complains about, there are just as many people who adore the trainer. No one can make any sense of it without some facts.

Once again, I have no idea about this woman. I didn't say I did, but this is the point I'm trying to make.

This is exactly the problem when someone gets a grudge against someone in the horse business. There is so much talk that no one can possibly sift through it and tell what's real.

I've heard the most grossly untrue things said about trainers, just so someone could yank a few up-down lessons from them, and I've seen people for years warn others about someone only to be ignored.

For every person that despises some trainer there are a dozen who adore him. This is the most lopsided business in the history of the world, and this is exactly how we shoot ourselves in the foot every single day.

[Derid]

Okay, so someone mentioned to my husband in the feed store that this topic had hit the forum. I'm usually a regular reader and sometime poster, but of late my work has needed special attention.

So, to those that think it is in poor taste, or worse to say something negative regarding individuals, particularly professionals that make their money off those out of the loop.....let me say, I think that is crap.

To those that post, but don't add specifics....try on for size the lion suit, rather than the lamb. As I learned the hard way, if you don't expose individuals that mistreat, neglect, and misrepresent their profession, their actions will continue, and hurt or damage others in the future.

I know first hand that KB neglected my horses, caused them distress and damaged my tiny little breeding business. My husband and I boarded 7 horses at her new farm in TN in 2006/2007 (no mouthwatering arenas at the time). I remained in OR, finishing out my graduate students, packing up my laboratory and selling our home. Prior to shipment, the horses ranged in age from a long yearling to a retired old mare of 23. The horses had been weighed, wormed, vaccinated, and teeth floated within a month of transport (oh, and pics were taken, OR then required transport permits). KB had done a fantastic job of assuring me that she knew what, how and when to do everything, we signed a contract. The horses arrived in excellent condition in November. In late February, my husband started copying me on emails to KB stating that the horses were losing too much weight and that they needed more food. KB's husband told him during a visit that they had stopped feeding because the pastures were so lush. I arrived during my spring break the first week in April, the horses were beyond thin and there was no grass in the paddocks. A veterinarian that came to the farm to vaccinate refused to do my horses. He evaluated and provided body condition scores; the coming 3 yr old was a 2+ (she weighed 1200+ in Nov, 750lbs in April and had a U in the top of her neck), the coming 2 yr old was a 3-, the 24 yr old AQHA mare had slipped to a 4-. I fortunately found, within a week, an individual with the ability to accept 7 horses. In all, I'd say the animals did not appear normal in weight or behavior for an entire year. I did no advertising. WE were embarrassed and overcome with guilt for leaving our horses with this professional dressage trainer, instructor, etc, etc.

In short, we did nothing, we chose not to report her to TN authorities, we chose not to go to meetings of our local dressage club (KB was a board member), and we avoided taking our mares/foals to her farm to be inspected by ISR/OldNA. We wanted nothing to do with her, we kept to ourselves, only those at Robertson Equestrian facility and the veterinarian knew and could verify the condition of our horses.

And you know what, through our silence, she was able to do it again! Again, to another individual moving from one state to another that left four horses in her care and got back three. That individual has filed a lawsuit that is pending, we've been asked to provide information in the form of a legal document. We have also filed documents with USDF, USEF and ISR/OLDNA. Apparently, others have done so as well from discussions with agency personnel, and only ISR wrote back a negative letter (but, then she is good friends with owner/CEO). On the other hand, ISR did come to my farm and inspect my mares and foals last year - my conclusion, money, money, money is all that matters to the registries. And, while I did have my best three foals ever, none were premiums on that day.

I've also had people off this board contact me, they provided me with the WI state website that tracks legal cases settled and pending. It's really sad. In my opinion, we as community need to be able to police ourselves and stop anyone that professes something they are not. Speaking out on this board is one option.

Derid

WEBSITE: http://www.mares-nest-farm.com

[blackhorse6]

This story has been told before...meaning it happens to often. I am glad you stepped up and told your version...People need to beware..I know I have learned my lesson:(

[DixieChix]

Do you people have nothing better to do with your time?? This woman is a saint and has adopted five special needs children and has spent many years building her business and learning from only the best to do that. She does not deserve this and I think if you have any problems with her they are personal and maybe its because you are jealous??? She has trained and ridden with some of the top trainers in the world.. Do you think if she miss treated horses they would teach her? Or how did she get a scholarship to ride at the german riding school? Why would three of her children become vet techs if the family business was to abuse animals ? Do you know that vet techs do not make much over minimum wage, they do the job because they have a love for animals! And so does kathryn do you know how many animals she has takin in off the street? Cats, dogs and horses that were NOT taken care of? Would you adopt five children that nowbody else wanted? One of them had a life expectency of 2 years and now is 15 the doctors say he is a miracle " he is living on Love'. Who the hell are you to criticize her!!!! I bet there is not a one of you DQ"S out there that would do half of what this woman has done! Have I also mentioned that these people that criticize this woman are NOTHING in the horse world. They have not had multiple premium foals and sucessful students or been sucessful themselves. They do not have people suporting them like ; george williams, colonel von zigner , cindy sydner, sara giekie, the oldenberg verband ect.. And I believe I saw somebody write that it takes money to have premium foal and yet you say she has no money?? Confusing?? Maybe you should all stoptalking about someone you do not know!!

[hammondcrazy@yahoo.com]

Do you people have nothing better to do with your time?? This woman is a saint and has adopted five special needs children and has spent many years building her business and learning from only the best to do that. She does not deserve this and I think if you have any problems with her they are personal and maybe its because you are jealous??? She has trained and ridden with some of the top trainers in the world.. Do you think if she miss treated horses they would teach her? Or how did she get a scholarship to ride at the german riding school? Why would three of her children become vet techs if the family business was to abuse animals ? Do you know that vet techs do not make much over minimum wage, they do the job because they have a love for animals! And so does kathryn do you know how many animals she has takin in off the street? Cats, dogs and horses that were NOT taken care of? Would you adopt five children that nowbody else wanted? One of them had a life expectency of 2 years and now is 15 the doctors say he is a miracle " he is living on Love'. Who the hell are you to criticize her!!!! I bet there is not a one of you DQ"S out there that would do half of what this woman has done! Have I also mentioned that these people that criticize this woman are NOTHING in the horse world. They have not had multiple premium foals and sucessful students or been sucessful themselves. They do not have people suporting them like ; george williams, colonel von zigner , cindy sydner, sara giekie, the oldenberg verband ect.. And I believe I saw somebody write that it takes money to have premium foal and yet you say she has no money?? Confusing?? Maybe you should all stoptalking about someone you do not know!!

That is all well and wonderful. BUT,, My opinion is go out and visit and see the horses in her care. The way she runs the place. Many times I would go to a farm that is "wonderful" and see terrible bedding horses not happy and thin, shoddy electrical work (barn fires are the quickest way to lose your loved ones) fencing that is lethal from lack of repair. I remember boarding my horse as this one stable, advertised "full use of the indoor arena included". Of course when I got there after my horse was shipped there, there are horses living in the indoor, almost killed myself tripping over an engine block in weeds in front of the tack room from a truck her husband was rebuilding, of course that same truck killed 4 horses and broke a child's ankle and she had to watch a police officer put her beloved horse down because after a show they were headed home and his brakes went out that he fixed because he was to cheap to get it fixed professionally. Of course this barn was highly recommended. If there is any bad publicity of a barn stay clear I have learned the HARD WAY!!!! . Look elsewhere . Spend the extra cash on a proven trainer and one that has the best stable of school masters. A pilot friend told me once, to fly the big jets you must get in the cockpits of the big jets to learn how to fly em. Same thing with horses. If she only has lower level horses, go somewhere that has upper level horses and coaches. Today you may not be able to ride the upper levels but isn't that the goal??

[DixieChix]

I have visited the farm both in wisconsin and in tennessee and both places are wonderful. They both had very safe fencing, arenas and stall barn. The horses are cared for better I have ever seen. Did I also mention that in wisconsin she had multiple veternarians boarding and taking lessons from here. One of which is now a world renound equine surgeon? Do you think they would board there or take lessons if they questioned the care at all? They didn't and I can tell you that first hand... Let me also mention that Kathryn has a strength in caracter that none of you have. She would never be on some chat trying to distroy anyones bussiness. She doesn't have time for it or would she ever want to hurt someone like that. Have you ever heard of " slander of a bussiness'? Huh sound like a few of you should have a lawsuit agianst you. I encourage any of you to go out to that farm. I know everyone makes mistakes and im sure if anyone looked you up they could find stuff you have done wrong in the past. If not then your personal life is probably a disaster. I think that maybe everyone who has said something bad about kathryn needs to take a long look in the mirror. She has never done anything to intentionally hurt anyone and would'nt. But all of you would apparently. You can all think what you want but none of you know the facts and if you did you would think quite differantly.

[Bogey2]

I am always amazed that people turn to the internet and ask such questions. If I am interested in a trainer, clinician or barn. I visit or privately ask a trusted horse friend before I venture in.

Someone once posted a question about me and my farm on a local board. This person absolutely knew of me and had even met me a couple of times, even boarded with a student of mine etc. Why would she ask this question? Because she was a shit starter, plain and simple. Had the reputation of being one.

I posted on the thread that I was right here (even put my e-mail and phone), feel free to stop in and see my barn...watch a lesson or two and talk to my boarders. Of course I also mentioned I had no stalls available and my lesson horses were booked but I would be happy to put them on the list for an opening. I took the high road.

Why trust an internet stranger? You see very different stories here so the truth my be that she is not everyone's cup of tea (nor am I for that matter).

[slc2]

Every person who has ever lived always has people who hate them and people who love them. Take what people say, try to find anything factual out of either the praises or the accusations, and take it from there.

[Bogey2]

If you mean from the internet then I disagree.

[fancyTNchic]

Hello dressage enthusiasts;

I just found this forum with someone asking about Kathryn Bauman and taking lessons that got my attention.

Since I board there and take lessons from her (and know her family pretty well) I would say; ABSOLUTELY, take the lessons. Kathryn is an awesome coach and wonderful person, the facilities are beautiful and immaculate and her lessons are educational and a blast! She is full of energy and very knowledgable. The barn stays immaculate, the stalls have rubber mats and shavings and are cleaned daily, waters changed and cleaned, daily;well maintained board fence and lots of pasture, cross fenced and plenty of grass. She feeds the horses high quality grain and hay and I even noticed that all the horses feet looked good, even the ones in the field. My horse has always had the very best of care there and has never needed an emergency vet visit, not even for a cut. What more could any one ask for than that?

I have to say though, that a couple of people in this forum seem to have an 'axe to grind' and I agree with DixieChix; it could be considered slander and I am very disappointed that some folks have to air there dirty laundry to try and hurt others publicly. (but not surprised knowing some of the back biting that goes on from some barns in middle TN.) It's sad that a sport this cool can seem so vicious and uninviting for newbees to dressage.

But since I have been a boarder at K.B.s for 7 months and have current first hand knowledge of the place and the family, let me attempt to set the record straight here for those of you that may form opinions from this site.

I visited dressage farms and boarded at four of them in the past 3 years that boosted expert trainers, coaches, etc..only to find what appreared to be chicken wire or delapidated fence; muck in stalls mid-ankle deep, horses that were feed 'sometimes' if at all and water buckets in stalls that had more mud than water. Not quite what I wanted for my horse and not for the prices they were asking, or any price for that matter.

At the various barns we did try, my horse experienced the following:
*At one barn; she was injured and left for hours in a situation that could have caused her permanent damage or even been fatal. (we were not told the whole truth about that incident until several months later)
* At another barn; she came out of winter a couple hundred pounds shy of being in good shape, rather thin because of lack of hay/grass.
*At a different barn; the trainer/coach totally disregarded our direct, expressed request for ample turn-out for our horse, (she needed regular turn out to keep her legs from stocking up) and was kept stalled up for endless days causing her legs to be stocked up severely. Constantly different 'helpers' feeding caused alot of mix-ups. And the 'coach' actually stated she did not take 'students' to certified shows, that was 'her time'.
* And yet another 'dressage expert' even feed moldy round bales to the horses and left the twine in them so that my horses shoe got caught in it and strapped her hoof literally to the ground. Had I not dropped by and found her she would have gone un-noticed in the field and possibly broken her leg.
*Visited one dressage barn in Chapel Hill, TN. to check for boarding and tried a couple lessons prior to finding Kathryns place, only to be terribly disappointed with a couple of lessons that weren't so good and poorly cared for stalls and horses. This same individual upon our first meeting actually dissed another trainer right out of the blue.

And for the couple of you that claim you had issues at some point, I have seen nothing to indicate a lack of care for my horse or any others out there in 7 months. ***BUT WHAT IF, I just blogged the names of all those middle TN DRESSAGE barns I descibed above and the names of the trainers on here for all the world to see? I think some may be upset; it was all true, but I wouldn't go that far in a public format to harm someone.

So evidently, there are plenty of "great dressage barns in Middle TN' with 'spotless records', but knowing what I and others know, they wouldn't be so spotless if we all did what you did.

Kathryn Bauman and her family are all awesome, good hearted and very hard working people and Kathryn treats everyone that comes out with respect. Great lessons; and very encouraging to all, no matter what breed of horse you ride. If she can teach me to canter and jump too in a couple of lessons, I am sure she can teach a more advanced rider. Will I continue lessons there? You Betcha!!

:cool:

[skipit]

My husband is about to be relocated for his job, and one of the possible places we might land is the Nashville area. While searching for dressage trainers in the area I found a particular website and was considering contacting her for lessons. I see some very negative postings here and I wonder if someone has legitimate information and would please enlighten me if there is something I need to know.
I am not trying to be slanderous, here, I just need some information that is legitimate.
Please post me personally with your responses as it is not my intent to cause trouble, I just want to be informed in the event that we land in Nashville.
Thanking you all in advance.

[merrygoround]

Hmmm! I think it very interesting that the two glowing appraisals of the persom in question,come from newbie posters.

I would suggest that anyone thinking of boarding or associating with the subject of this post do their own research.

It has been my observation that leopards do not change their spots. A person convicted of neglect and abuse in one location will repeat themselves. In the same vein, a person who is known to run a well managed operation in the past will unusually continue to do so, unless illness, or accident intervenes.

[fancyTNchic]

Hi Skipit; I can highly recommend Kathryn and the facility for consideration. It would be good to go talk to her; take a lesson and see for yourself. Everyone has there own preferences, but I have found this to be a very pleasant environment and my horse and I have been treated very well. The whole family is a 'class act' unlike some I have encountered. So be sure to go see for yourself; I did and have never regretted it.

[fancyTNchic]

Merrygoround; since when is there something wrong with being a newbee poster? Some of us may not have the time to do as much posting as you seem too. My family did however own a boarding barn for many years so I know what is expected for proper horsecare, so I am not a newbee to that. But there are several others that know KB and her reputation that also responded on her behalf.There is nothing wrong with being a 'newbee poster' and defending someones character and integrity is there?

But I must ask, when you stated above: "A person convicted of neglect and abuse in one location will repeat themselves" were you talking about K.B. specifically or in general? Because in general is correct, if you are saying that regarding Kathryn than that is inaccurate and completely false and I am sure you would not want to make false accusations would you?

All I am saying is; I have seen alot of things that are not so good at many other barns, some dressage barns, some not. Some talked a good game at first then didn't follow through but were happy to take your money and K.B. has done everything right since I've been there.

With dressage experts like George Williams, Cindy Sydner, Sara Giekie, Richard Lifton and many others that come out and give clinics and know her speaks volumes. Do you know her or have any dealings from a personal viewpoint?

[merrygoround]

Reading comprehension! I did not imply that the person question did anything. You will note that my posts are usually quite short.

And when you've been in horses, and on this earh a long time, you tend to get an education in people or else.

[fancyTNchic]

Thank you for the clarification.
I have been around horses and on this earth awhile too and just don't want to see the good people being dissed by a couple of folks when others do not know them.
I personally find it difficult to learn about people on a blog, may be difficult to differentiate between the good ones and the not so good ones sometimes.:)

[caffeinated]

Merrygoround; since when is there something wrong with being a newbee poster?

Oftentimes, when there is a thread about a person that is not entirely "good," brand new posters will suddenly appear to defend that person. Often those brand new posters are the subject of the thread, or close family members. Sometimes the new posters are all the same person, under multiple user names (this is called the "houseguest defense" as in, "no, that was NOT me, a houseguest was using my computer."). So new posters on threads like this are often considerd suspect (whether that's fair or not).

[Bogey2]

I am not trying to be slanderous, here, I just need some information that is legitimate.

and how will you be sure it's legitimate information? just go there and see for yourself.

[Lambie Boat]

or could be collecting bad stories via PM in order to prop up a lawsuit.

everyone should just do their own extensive research, (not just this thread), go out in person and make their own conclusions.

just because someone takes a clinic from someone else (an 'expert' ), does absolutely NOT mean that clinician will vouch for or recommend that person. It means that clinician will take that rider's money. That also applies to sitting across the dinner table, or having a drink, or even staying in a person's house does not make you personal FRIENDS with the clinician.

[skipit]

Thanks to those of you who have responded to my request. I have to say that I find it really unusual that there are so many people in the Nashville area that are so divided on so many things. Or, maybe it's just my imagination and I asked the wrong question in the wrong thread. I don't know. I hope that is the case because I really just want to enjoy my riding and my horse and learn in a safe enviroment with a qualified teacher.
Accusations of starving horses and abuse are very harsh and can be very damaging and I don't exactly understand why people would want to be so vicious. On the other hand, I was taught the old saying, 'where there's smoke there's fire' so I must say I am leery.
One of my other location options is Kansas City and I wondered if anyone knows instructors there as I will be visiting there soon.

Best of luck to all.