Do judges really care...

[CassandraMarie]

How expensive your saddle or your bridle is, if you're wearing $200 breeches or $40 ones, etc. Just curious if it's more to make the people feel like they're important, or do judges really notice things like that.

[gg4918]

I think that generally the more expensive things are higher quality so they fit/look better. Thats not to say taht you cant get less expensive things that arent a fine quality. I'm just speaking in generalities.
My CWD sure fits ALOT better than my Natural.
My Tailored Sportsmens are alot more tailored (no pun intended) than my Devon Aires.
It helps give you that edge.

[MHM]

Judges notice if your tack and attire are neat, clean, and properly fitted.

Beyond that, most judges don't care about labels or brand names.

[twobays]

No, not really. Looking good is part of the whole package, and I think the more expensive stuff tends to look better, but no one checks the price tag on your pants. If you come in looking sloppy, thats one thing, but you're not going to get bumped from the ribbons for having $100 Ariats vs $250 TS.

[gottagrey]

Also - no judge knows if you bought your TS for $250- or $50 from a tack consignment section or ebay...

many judges are also trainers and many trainers don't know from brands anyway...

From my somewhat brief and biased experience working in a tack shop - the trainers who focused more on what people wore were not the best trainers in the area. The trainers who were the best trainers in the area - didn't care about which brand helmet, boots, breeches, or tack - as long as it fit and looked good (clothes). I remember one kid coming in to the store one evening -her pony ate her reins - show the next day. Needed reins. We had a pair of beautiful Heythrop reins - top quality, gorgeous ; "MY trainer ONLY wants us to use EDGEWOOD" Well we don't have any Edgewood pony reins, but have these. But he said only Edgewood; well here's the thing - the reins don't have the brand stamped on them - so he won't know unless you tell him - right. So here's the thing the kid didn't buy the reins because not Edgewood - she couldn't go to show because her reins were destroyed. Trainer lost coaching/vanning fees because of some stupid theory about brand name tack.

Another example - "my trainer will only let us wear side zip TS. But this girl look horrible in side zip TS breeches..but look fabulous in a pair of Front fly Ariats... another example.

The thing is there is a lot of good quality riding equipment/clothes out there.
Brand name/cost means nothing - quality and appearance do.

[Midge]

No.

[WorthTheWait95]

Nope.

They should be too busy watching your round to even notice your clothes assuming you are neat and tidy in the first place.

As someone else pointed out they have no idea how much you paid anyway. I only wear TS side zips b/c they are what fit and look nice on me. I've never paid more then $90 for a pair on ebay and don't plan on every shelling out $250 for a pair of breeches. Same goes for tack. One of my horses fits wonderfully in a pony sized edgewood b/c they stretch just a hair. It's the only way I can avoid buying two bridles and pieceing them together. I paid $100 for my brand new pony sized edgewood with reins off ebay. Never even oiled before I got it.

[luvs2ride]

They don't, so long as your tack matches and you and your horse are neatly turned out. It's not like they pin people differently because "oh, rider X wore RJ Classics and Ariats but rider Y wore Grand Prix and tailoreds"
However, if a piece of equipment or attire is really obnoxious looking the judge may get distracted from your trip. IMO from far away I can't tell the difference between brands of britches, bridles, etc, so I doubt the judge can either.

[SaturdayNightLive]

Yes, yes they do. As a matter of fact, you are required to submit a list of the brands that you and your horse are wearing. Classes are pinned in order of who spent the most - the whole riding thing is just a formality. Also, anyone riding a horse which is not an imported Euroblood will be automatically disqualified.

[gottagrey]

think of how much your breeches really show when you are in the saddle - Not much right? ill fitting jacket and tack might distract from overall picture but that includes proper sized saddle pad, leather straps in keepers etc

I will say though, having watched Real Housewives of NY - that rider could use a few days on this BB about attire - :lol:

[Lucassb]

Yes, yes they do. As a matter of fact, you are required to submit a list of the brands that you and your horse are wearing. Classes are pinned in order of who spent the most - the whole riding thing is just a formality. Also, anyone riding a horse which is not an imported Euroblood will be automatically disqualified.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[nuts4cowboybutts]

Yes, yes they do. As a matter of fact, you are required to submit a list of the brands that you and your horse are wearing. Classes are pinned in order of who spent the most - the whole riding thing is just a formality. Also, anyone riding a horse which is not an imported Euroblood will be automatically disqualified.

Yes, and you are required to list your BNT and the brand of trailer in which your horse traveled.:lol:

[superpony123]

it's not a matter of "rider A has a GPA and rider B has a troxel so i think since a GPA is more expensive this rider is better"

think of it this way. particularly for hunters and eq (obviously): you are trying to show off your horse and yourself as best as you can. turnout is IMPORTANT.

lets say we're at an A show. two riders put in equally good rounds. let's disregard the other competitors and say these two are battling for first/second place.

Rider A has a hairnet that matches her hair color, her hair is nicely put away in "hunter hair" under her helmet. shes wearing a CO Hampton, it's a classic helmet, discreet but stylish. not distracting what so ever. her hunt coat is a nice dark charcoal color, it is modest but still attractive with a slight plaid pattern, lets say blue, and so she wears a matching blue shirt. gloves are black leather or black synthetic. breeches are TS regular rise side zips. boots are lovely, rich, smooth, shiny black leather field boots. they fit the rider perfectly. all of her clothes fit as if theyve been tailored.

Rider B has a coat that is clearly cheaper (you can tell its not made from wool--you know, those polyester blend kinds) and is also very ill fitting. the rider may be on a budget and bought it on the sale rack and it was the only one she could afford even though it does not fit. she is wearing a short sleeve show shirt, and you can tell because the cuffs do not show under her sleeve. the gloves may be dirty schooling gloves. breeches are cotton front zip pull-ons that get bunched up in the front, and the cotton itself screams "schooling." her boots are either very cheap leather and do not fit, or they are synthetic. her hair is in a show bow, hanging out at the base of her neck under her bright blue troxel helmet.

who do you think is going to win?

hunters is not a fashion show, don't get yourself confused. it's about who can make the best presentation of their horse and themselves. showing up like rider B says "im sorry, i dont care enough to make myself look impeccable" --while most of us know that really Rider B cant afford to have nicer clothes, rider B cant expect to win in such attire.

when clothes are ill fitting, it is not only extremely DISTRACTING from the horse, it can make the rider look worse than they may be. ive seen good riders who wear clothe sthat dont fit properly and it totally throws off the way their position APPEARS. how is the judge supposed to know weather theyre slouching and ducking over the fence or if really their jacket is just bunching up at the shoulders because it doesn't fit? they have to assume the rider is slouching.

judges dont care how much you paid. they care about how you present yourself. i paid $150 for a used grand prix jacket that sells for $400 new. do you think the judge knows that? he doesnt care, because the jacket fits me like a glove and he can see what i really look like in the saddle

i pick out what colors im going to wear according to my horse. why? he is a lovely white and chestnut pinto pony and i want to compliment his color, not clash. so, i don't wear navy jackets, i dont wear blue tinged jackets. i will wear blue shirts, but i wear a charcoal coat with it. i wear rust with a brown jacket too. everything looks neat and tidy. my pony is the main focus, because while i am dressed impeccably, it's not a distraction. my outfits just look really good with my pony. it makes his color pop.

[Daventry]

Judges notice if your tack and attire are neat, clean, and properly fitted.

Beyond that, most judges don't care about labels or brand names.


:yes::yes:

[syntheeya]

when clothes are ill fitting, it is not only extremely DISTRACTING from the horse, it can make the rider look worse than they may be. ive seen good riders who wear clothe sthat dont fit properly and it totally throws off the way their position APPEARS. how is the judge supposed to know weather theyre slouching and ducking over the fence or if really their jacket is just bunching up at the shoulders because it doesn't fit? they have to assume the rider is slouching.

This couldn't be more true. In fact, I had a coat that was too small across the shoulders and I found it would even encourage my eq to suffer. If I had my shoulders back, the jacket would kind of "pull" in the chest. If I hunched forward a bit, the jacket released. I went a size up, problem solved. :yes: It was a very minor difference but honestly made a difference in my riding.

[Queen Latisha]

I'm sure judges could care less how expensive your tack/show clothes are.
As long as you're neat and clean, I think it's fine.
I can wear my TS breeches or my On Course ones and with my jacket on, you can't tell the difference.:D

[enjoytheride]

"Rider B has a coat that is clearly cheaper (you can tell its not made from wool--you know, those polyester blend kinds) and is also very ill fitting. the rider may be on a budget and bought it on the sale rack and it was the only one she could afford even though it does not fit. she is wearing a short sleeve show shirt, and you can tell because the cuffs do not show under her sleeve. the gloves may be dirty schooling gloves. breeches are cotton front zip pull-ons that get bunched up in the front, and the cotton itself screams "schooling." her boots are either very cheap leather and do not fit, or they are synthetic. her hair is in a show bow, hanging out at the base of her neck under her bright blue troxel helmet."

Whenever there is a "does fashion count for winning?" thread someone always brings up a plastic helmet and a showbow. Inexpensive does not have to be associated with cheap and sloppy and I think that is a standard HP rant. Anybody that is going to show on the A or even B circuit would know the difference between cheap and affordable. It is entirely possible to fit in on a small budget.

The denial that there is no middle ground between "custom boots" and "rubber boots" and "plastic helmet" or "charles owen" is snobby.

Comparing a Charles owen to a blue helmet is ridiculous. There are plenty of velvet helmets (with or without skunk strip) that cost around $100. Hairnets cost $1.99 which is cheaper then a showbow.

I have NO idea why side zip V. front zip would make a difference. If the color is appropriate and the fit is good the location of the zipper doesn't matter. You can find leather boots for under $200 that are the right height, and with the new material in jackets you can't tell the difference between wool and synthetic anyway. An ill fitting jacket is just a plain ill fitting jacket. You can purchase an affordable jacket or even a used jacket and have it tailored. Synthetic black gloves are fine, and you can either get two pairs or wash the ones you have before you show. I have never understood why you need to see 1 inch of cuff poking out beneath a coat but there are different brands of long sleeve shirts that are affordable.

[gloriginger]

ha ha...some of these responses ae really funny!

I have a good friend who is a big R judge- and trust me, she does not notice if you are wearing side zip or front zip breeches, she does not notice the price of the coat you are wearing or how expensive your helmet is...really I have talked to her after a day of watching umpteem horses ride around th same course- and she is focused on much different things, like is she looking up when the next horse comes in the ring to make ure she sees all the fences, and how did she judge the person 30 horses ago that was pretty close to the person that just went...trust me, the judges are not focused on how expensive your outfit is...

If it makes you feel better and boosts your confidence, it probably helps you ride better- but your outfit does not make or break you.

Now everyone say this over and over: riding is a sport, riding is a sport, riding is a sport

:winkgrin:

[2ndyrgal]

Clean, well fitting, workmanlike, conservative. And eight good spots. The judge really really does not care. And please to all the HPs weighing in on this, if you have your own groom, then don't weigh in. if you have more than one horse, don't weigh in. And if your show coat is now so short that from behind you look more like J-Lo than Beezie, get a new one.

[Kestrel]

If the judge can read the label on my breeches, it means I'm laying on the ground in front of the judge's box. Probably not going to pin with that....

Good fit. Clean. Conservative. That's all it takes.

[SoBeIt]

:yes::yes:

Hi Daventry!

As a judge, breeder, trainer and an honest horsewoman you should know!:)

[Atypical]

Nope. Period. Well turned out, clean, well fitted, done

[Hunter Mom]

If the judge can read the label on my breeches, it means I'm laying on the ground in front of the judge's box. Probably not going to pin with that....

Good fit. Clean. Conservative. That's all it takes.

Well said!:yes:

[eqsiu]

he is a lovely white and chestnut pinto pony and i want to compliment his color, not clash. so, i don't wear navy jackets, i dont wear blue tinged jackets.

Out of curiosity, why do you think blue would clash? I would think browns would not look best with a chestnut, rather than blue looking bad.

[Sing Mia Song]

Speaking as one who judges at the local levels, but has ridding at all the As and Indoors, I really could give a rat's ass what brand you're wearing. As said earlier, if it's clean, fits well, and allows you to do your job, I don't care what color or brand it is. I don't want to see anything distracting (flapping leather, wisps of hair straggling out from your helmet), but I'm really not paying attention to the labels on your pants, your choker monogram, whether you've got a GPA or an ATH, or whether your bridle has fancy stitching or not. I'm watching you ride and your horse jump.

Now, let me speak about one thing that is important to me, and that's your saddle. I don't care if it's Wintec, an old flat Crosby, or an Antares, but it is really, really hard for you to present a decent hunt seat picture in an all-purpose saddle. They put your leg, your seat and your balance in all the wrong places. I have yet to see a horse who looks happy and free-moving wearing an AP, and when I see a rider in one, all I can think is, "God, that must be uncomfortable." If there is one thing you should spend money on, it's a saddle that fits you and the horse. Everything else is secondary.

[IsolaBella09]

Out of curiosity, why do you think blue would clash? I would think browns would not look best with a chestnut, rather than blue looking bad.

Eqsiu is correct. Analogous colors blend in with the color, while a navy or a darker color would actually offset a chestnut, and make him stand out. Complementary colors would help a chestnut's color, rather than hinder it. Think opposites on the color wheel. Basic Fine Arts concepts.

[Jake's Dad]

I hate dirty boots....unshined looks like crap..I have seen Pros with dirty boots also ...and they look just as bad....

[MyGiantPony]

think of how much your breeches really show when you are in the saddle - Not much right? ill fitting jacket and tack might distract from overall picture but that includes proper sized saddle pad, leather straps in keepers etc


So true about the breeches. When I owned my tack shop, if someone was on a budget, I always told them to spend the most they could afford on a nice quality, well fitted jacket. Can't see enough of the breeches to matter.

[Daventry]

Hi Daventry!

As a judge, breeder, trainer and an honest horsewoman you should know!:)


Aw, thanks! :D

[FarnleyGarnet]

I think that judges want riders to show respect for the competition, the tradition of the sport and the well being of the horse. That translates to being clean, appropriately dressed and equipped, and mounted on a horse in good health that is immaculately groomed.

Think of it like a job interview. Does a wrinkled suit, bed head, old worn out shoes and dirty fingernails mean that you are a much worse computer programmer than the guy in a clean, tailored suit and tie who smells freshly showered? Not at all. But most people immediately have a negative perception of the first person compared to the second. Would you wear shorts to a job interview? They could be $1,200 Chanel shorts or $17.99 Old Navy shorts... either way they show your lack of knowlege of appropriate dress for the situation and lack of respect for the person assessing your abilities.

Sames goes for hunters. Don't wear something to make you stand out from the pack at a hunter show in a negative way. Hunters is all about subjectively ranking competitors against one another. It's just silly not to dress properly to give the right first impression.

[Hunter Mom]

But that takes us back to the original question - does the label inside the clothes count? Given that you can buy an entire "proper" (not saying top quality, tailored fit, just proper) beginner show outfit for less than $200, isn't that still showing respect?

I've shown in good company in a $130 jacket and placed well despite it. I was clean, neat and rode my horse well. My horse was spotless and turned out well. But, in the end, I was hoping the judge was looking at our good round, not labels.

[MyGiantPony]

I think that judges want riders to show respect for the competition, the tradition of the sport and the well being of the horse. That translates to being clean, appropriately dressed and equipped, and mounted on a horse in good health that is immaculately groomed.

Think of it like a job interview. Does a wrinkled suit, bed head, old worn out shoes and dirty fingernails mean that you are a much worse computer programmer than the guy in a clean, tailored suit and tie who smells freshly showered? Not at all. But most people immediately have a negative perception of the first person compared to the second. Would you wear shorts to a job interview? They could be $1,200 Chanel shorts or $17.99 Old Navy shorts... either way they show your lack of knowlege of appropriate dress for the situation and lack of respect for the person assessing your abilities.

Sames goes for hunters. Don't wear something to make you stand out from the pack at a hunter show in a negative way. Hunters is all about subjectively ranking competitors against one another. It's just silly not to dress properly to give the right first impression.

The OP isn't suggesting anyone be shoddily turned out.

the question is - does the price tag or name brand of the outfit matter to judges.

The answer is quite simply, no.

[Trixie]

Inexpensive does not have to be associated with cheap and sloppy and I think that is a standard HP rant. Anybody that is going to show on the A or even B circuit would know the difference between cheap and affordable. It is entirely possible to fit in on a small budget.

The shoestring that my show outfits cost is surprising. I've never paid more than $50 for a pair of breeches without a gift card, and I have a closet full of TS. I've shown at Upperville and WIHS in $50 hunt coats, nothing less in quality than a wool RJ Classics. My boots fit, I have one pair of used custom vogels that I paid less than $50 for, and a second pair of ariats that I bought on sale. I have not paid more than $10 for a show shirt in probably five years. Everything is tailored and everything fits, and it will be clean and pressed.

It's absolutely possible to outfit yourself completely for a few hundred bucks. The key is to know your measurements and then scour the world for the best deals, and don't be afraid to buy used but high quality. Then, take care of it.

However, it's quite possible to make cheap look expensive and expensive look cheap. It's all about fit and tidiness. Boots that are too short, messy hair, a lack of gloves, or an ill-fitting coat look cheap, even if they are of better materials. I do think the pricier stuff often holds up better, and further, may have better tailoring or a more flattering material.

I've yet to see a judge give a damn about inexpensive or labels, however, they DO care about messy. It costs just as much to look cheap as it does to look tailored.

[horsegirl888]

Clean, well fitting, workmanlike, conservative. And eight good spots. The judge really really does not care. And please to all the HPs weighing in on this, if you have your own groom, then don't weigh in. if you have more than one horse, don't weigh in. And if your show coat is now so short that from behind you look more like J-Lo than Beezie, get a new one.
I second that!

[Trixie]

I don't think what you spend on your clothes or what brands you choose have a thing to do with whether or not you have a groom or if you have more than one horse.

[damecheval]

The shoestring that my show outfits cost is surprising. I've never paid more than $50 for a pair of breeches without a gift card, and I have a closet full of TS. I've shown at Upperville and WIHS in $50 hunt coats, nothing less in quality than a wool RJ Classics. My boots fit, I have one pair of used custom vogels that I paid less than $50 for, and a second pair of ariats that I bought on sale. I have not paid more than $10 for a show shirt in probably five years. Everything is tailored and everything fits, and it will be clean and pressed.

It's absolutely possible to outfit yourself completely for a few hundred bucks. The key is to know your measurements and then scour the world for the best deals, and don't be afraid to buy used but high quality. Then, take care of it.

However, it's quite possible to make cheap look expensive and expensive look cheap. It's all about fit and tidiness. Boots that are too short, messy hair, a lack of gloves, or an ill-fitting coat look cheap, even if they are of better materials. I do think the pricier stuff often holds up better, and further, may have better tailoring or a more flattering material.

I've yet to see a judge give a damn about inexpensive or labels, however, they DO care about messy. It costs just as much to look cheap as it does to look tailored.

Oh dear. Please teach me how to shop like that. My mother would love me for it. No more hiding the price tags from Dad after a trip to the tack store! :lol:

[seeuatx]

The shoestring that my show outfits cost is surprising. I've never paid more than $50 for a pair of breeches without a gift card, and I have a closet full of TS. I've shown at Upperville and WIHS in $50 hunt coats, nothing less in quality than a wool RJ Classics. My boots fit, I have one pair of used custom vogels that I paid less than $50 for, and a second pair of ariats that I bought on sale. I have not paid more than $10 for a show shirt in probably five years. Everything is tailored and everything fits, and it will be clean and pressed.

It's absolutely possible to outfit yourself completely for a few hundred bucks. The key is to know your measurements and then scour the world for the best deals, and don't be afraid to buy used but high quality. Then, take care of it.

However, it's quite possible to make cheap look expensive and expensive look cheap. It's all about fit and tidiness. Boots that are too short, messy hair, a lack of gloves, or an ill-fitting coat look cheap, even if they are of better materials. I do think the pricier stuff often holds up better, and further, may have better tailoring or a more flattering material.

I've yet to see a judge give a damn about inexpensive or labels, however, they DO care about messy. It costs just as much to look cheap as it does to look tailored.

Ding ding ding! We have the answer.:)

I have a mix of expensive and in-expensive in my wardrobe (horsey and non-horsey). I have a pair of $500 Recteligne tall boots (ok so they are dress... though not rodded dressage boots... but they FIT) that I got for $150 on closeout. I have 1 pair of TS that fits me the same as their RH line and was on sale for $80. I have an Ovation coat, but it fits me better than RJ's and I paid $60 instead of twice that plus the cost of alterations. I have well fitting colored shirt that was $35, and a well fitting white shirt that I paid $15 (all white shirts were half off because everyone wanted colored shirts) both are long sleeves... I never show in short sleeves. Yeah, yeah, yeah I have an IRH (oh the horror... and yes I know how to do "hunter hair") but GPAs do not fit my head, and I am not shelling out $400 for the same protection $100 can give me. Before that I had a plain velvet Troxel GP that I paid $50 for.

Add it all together and my well fitting show outfit cost about the same as a single GPA helmet. You can be cheap and still look the part (and that includes the "cheap" brands as long as they fit YOU). And as long as you look neat and workman like, I can't imagine a judge having anything to say... and if they did, then I would be seriously questioning their qualifications.

[Trixie]

Ebay, Craigslist, and the consignment section!!!! :winkgrin: It helps if you're an outgrowable size but even if you aren't, it's still out there. Obviously, sales are your friend. We're very fortunate to have the Middleburg Tack Exchange in less than an hour from our farm. Then, patience.

My mother taught me how to hunt down a deal but she's the first to tell you that if an item is totally perfect and worth it to spend. I'll add that an item is RARELY totally perfect and worth it.

I'll add that it definitely helps if you invest in better materials. A wool hunt coat will simply drape and fall better than one made of polyester. I do think breeches that are a material like the TS or ariats are more flattering and a bit more formal than a pair that are made of thin cotton. As far as brands, I HIGHLY doubt that a judge can tell if your breeches are TS or knockoffs, and they certainly won't care. They'll DEFINITELY notice if they're dirty or too tight though. There's nothing worse than pants that are too tight, breeches or not. :winkgrin:

[MistyBlue]

The *only* people at a show who care what the name brand/cost of your show clothes are the other riders. Since they don't matter, you don't have to care. :D :winkgrin: :D

[ammyO]

I think in general that good judges care don't care the brand but about the overall picture. You need to look neat, clean and well put together without anything taking away from the overall picture.

I personally have a little story regarding this:

I was at my first show since I had graduated college and was out on my own in California. It was September and I was trying to qualify for the flat medal finals so I went into the class with about 20 other juniors and ammys. They pulled the top into the middle and continued to work us (the rejects). I made sure to be right in front of the judge to pick up a beautiful counter canter both directions but was still thrown out. I was frustrated since I had been very successful at the A shows and this was a county show, so I watched the rest of the class (where the girl who won lost the counter canter both directions!), and approached the judge (which I had never done before). I asked if I could do anything better or if there was something he particularly didn't like about my style. He said that I rode great but my horse didn't have equitation boots, my bridle was old, and I looked poorly turned out (my jacket had become a little too big since I lost some weight being a poor 22 year old with a horse problem). He then went on to say how he couldn't afford a new bridle for his daughter so I shouldn't feel bad though. Of course that only pissed me off more. I said thank you and walked away.

Two women walked up after and said that they thought I rode really well and that they had me winning the class. I said thank you and lost it telling them what the judge had just said. The story ended up spreading and one of the well known trainers gave me brand new equitation boots. I was surprised and very touched.... even more so when a group of 10 trainers and riders came and watched me ride bursting into applause and cheering after I rode in my 3'3" hunter class.

This particular judge was an idiot in my personal opnion. Do the best you can to look your best in your budget but most importantly it's about the ride. Remember that even when the judge forgets!

[superpony123]

"Rider B has a coat that is clearly cheaper (you can tell its not made from wool--you know, those polyester blend kinds) and is also very ill fitting. the rider may be on a budget and bought it on the sale rack and it was the only one she could afford even though it does not fit. she is wearing a short sleeve show shirt, and you can tell because the cuffs do not show under her sleeve. the gloves may be dirty schooling gloves. breeches are cotton front zip pull-ons that get bunched up in the front, and the cotton itself screams "schooling." her boots are either very cheap leather and do not fit, or they are synthetic. her hair is in a show bow, hanging out at the base of her neck under her bright blue troxel helmet."

Whenever there is a "does fashion count for winning?" thread someone always brings up a plastic helmet and a showbow. Inexpensive does not have to be associated with cheap and sloppy and I think that is a standard HP rant. Anybody that is going to show on the A or even B circuit would know the difference between cheap and affordable. It is entirely possible to fit in on a small budget.

The denial that there is no middle ground between "custom boots" and "rubber boots" and "plastic helmet" or "charles owen" is snobby.

Comparing a Charles owen to a blue helmet is ridiculous. There are plenty of velvet helmets (with or without skunk strip) that cost around $100. Hairnets cost $1.99 which is cheaper then a showbow.

I have NO idea why side zip V. front zip would make a difference. If the color is appropriate and the fit is good the location of the zipper doesn't matter. You can find leather boots for under $200 that are the right height, and with the new material in jackets you can't tell the difference between wool and synthetic anyway. An ill fitting jacket is just a plain ill fitting jacket. You can purchase an affordable jacket or even a used jacket and have it tailored. Synthetic black gloves are fine, and you can either get two pairs or wash the ones you have before you show. I have never understood why you need to see 1 inch of cuff poking out beneath a coat but there are different brands of long sleeve shirts that are affordable.

I'm not saying there's no middle ground. I was making rider A and rider B two direct opposites to make the point clear. I think a 100$ velvet no-name helmet is perfectly acceptable as long as the hair is neat and tidy and it is not distracting from the image (which it should not be if it fits). And I'm not saying that side zips are "better" -- perhaps i should have mentioned (if i didnt) that for rider B the front zip is clearly not well fitting. I should have written it a little more clearly; front zips are acceptable if they fit nicely. They don't fit me well at all, but they certainly fit others better than a side zip would.

And Yes, you CAN buy an ill fitting high end jacket. And yes, there are lots of good helmets under 100$ and plenty of good boots for under $200.

The point i was trying to make is comparing two total extremes to make my point as clear as possible.

And yes, I have seen a "rider B" fashion at A shows.

[superpony123]

Out of curiosity, why do you think blue would clash? I would think browns would not look best with a chestnut, rather than blue looking bad.

*shrug* it's more personal. I'm sure anyone else would think blue looks fine with my pony, but i see it as a "blue and orange" kind of thing, eve though his chestnut spots are more brown than firey. but i've held blue coats up to him before, and i really just don't like the combination. to be honest i don't really like any blue colored coat on any chestnut (with exception of navy i guess because it does technically go with everything). and my brown coat is really more of a tan/cream but in some lights it is kind of a light brown.

[superpony123]

Eqsiu is correct. Analogous colors blend in with the color, while a navy or a darker color would actually offset a chestnut, and make him stand out. Complementary colors would help a chestnut's color, rather than hinder it. Think opposites on the color wheel. Basic Fine Arts concepts.

Yes, I'm *fully* aware blue and orange are opposites. ;) I do take art, if you remember correctly. Which is why I have a dark charcoal coat right now (though I wouldn't expect you to know that since we certainly havent seen eachother). It looks lovely on blitz.

How is your horse?

[FarnleyGarnet]

*shrug* it's more personal. I'm sure anyone else would think blue looks fine with my pony, but i see it as a "blue and orange" kind of thing, eve though his chestnut spots are more brown than firey. but i've held blue coats up to him before, and i really just don't like the combination. to be honest i don't really like any blue colored coat on any chestnut (with exception of navy i guess because it does technically go with everything). and my brown coat is really more of a tan/cream but in some lights it is kind of a light brown.

superpony123... I just had to giggle when I read your post. Aren't you considering going to the University of Virginia? You best get used to that "blue and orange" kind of thing! ;) Cavaliers are quite attached to their navy blue and orange.

I've read a lot of your posts and seen pics of your and your adorable pony. You both always look lovely... and I remember that you shop around and get a lot of your show clothes on sale. You're a good example of how riders can get the look they want without the huge price tag.

[Trixie]

I was at my first show since I had graduated college and was out on my own in California. It was September and I was trying to qualify for the flat medal finals so I went into the class with about 20 other juniors and ammys. They pulled the top into the middle and continued to work us (the rejects). I made sure to be right in front of the judge to pick up a beautiful counter canter both directions but was still thrown out. I was frustrated since I had been very successful at the A shows and this was a county show, so I watched the rest of the class (where the girl who won lost the counter canter both directions!), and approached the judge (which I had never done before). I asked if I could do anything better or if there was something he particularly didn't like about my style. He said that I rode great but my horse didn't have equitation boots, my bridle was old, and I looked poorly turned out (my jacket had become a little too big since I lost some weight being a poor 22 year old with a horse problem). He then went on to say how he couldn't afford a new bridle for his daughter so I shouldn't feel bad though. Of course that only pissed me off more. I said thank you and walked away.


By equitation boots, do you mean leather boots for your horse? If that were the case, I'd probably be writing a letter of complaint to the governing organization, particularly if the winning rider did not complete the test. There's nothing in the rulebook saying a horse has to wear boots and focusing on that as a reason for not pinning is certainly questionable judgement at best. Turnout is important, but performance is more important, as long as you are clean, tidy, safe, and within the rules.

FWIW, one of my horse's show bridles is from the late 1970s:

http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL936/3762429/10700270/314283213.jpg

Old tack, indeed.

[Mtn trails]

lets say we're at an A show. two riders put in equally good rounds. let's disregard the other competitors and say these two are battling for first/second place.

Rider A has a hairnet that matches her hair color, her hair is nicely put away in "hunter hair" under her helmet. shes wearing a CO Hampton, it's a classic helmet, discreet but stylish. not distracting what so ever. her hunt coat is a nice dark charcoal color, it is modest but still attractive with a slight plaid pattern, lets say blue, and so she wears a matching blue shirt. gloves are black leather or black synthetic. breeches are TS regular rise side zips. boots are lovely, rich, smooth, shiny black leather field boots. they fit the rider perfectly. all of her clothes fit as if theyve been tailored.

Rider B has a coat that is clearly cheaper (you can tell its not made from wool--you know, those polyester blend kinds) and is also very ill fitting. the rider may be on a budget and bought it on the sale rack and it was the only one she could afford even though it does not fit. she is wearing a short sleeve show shirt, and you can tell because the cuffs do not show under her sleeve. the gloves may be dirty schooling gloves. breeches are cotton front zip pull-ons that get bunched up in the front, and the cotton itself screams "schooling." her boots are either very cheap leather and do not fit, or they are synthetic. her hair is in a show bow, hanging out at the base of her neck under her bright blue troxel helmet.

who do you think is going to win?



A little off topic but.....
In your example, Rider A and B are battling it out for first place at an "A" show. Rider B can't afford the nicer clothes that Rider A can afford.

Question - if Rider B can't afford the clothes, how are we expected to believe that Rider B can afford the type of horse, training, and expenses involved in even being able to "battle it out" for first place at an A show?

[Trixie]

Question - if Rider B can't afford the clothes, how are we expected to believe that Rider B can afford the type of horse, training, and expenses involved in even being able to "battle it out" for first place at an A show?

I think quite frequently we see folks assume that the reason that they didn't win is because they aren't riding a warmblood, or because they wore cheap breeches instead of $200 ones, or because their coat was the wrong color, or because they don't train with Expensive Whooping BNT.

These are excuses, and the blame is misplaced. Two trips are RARELY so equal that turnout would be the determining factor, but turnout is certainly A determining factor. I quite frequently hear riders making excuses when the fact of the matter is that their trips just don't stack up. And yes, judges are human. If the picture is a mess, they're not going to make a good impression.

There was someone on here once who was extremely upset that despite the fact that her daughter put in 8 "smooth" fences, she didn't pin at a hunter show and was told that it's because she's "not a hunter." It took quite a bit of explaining to make the point that this was NOT based on attire, but rather the fact that while it was a sweet pony, it lacked a huntery jump (knees weren't up at all) and hunters were looking for a different kind of "smooth." 8 "smooth" fences don't mean a thing if your horse jumps like a giraffe and goes about at mach 10. The pony did not PERFORM like a hunter.

A hairnet is cheaper than a show bow, anyway.

[Lucassb]

A little off topic but.....
In your example, Rider A and B are battling it out for first place at an "A" show. Rider B can't afford the nicer clothes that Rider A can afford.

Question - if Rider B can't afford the clothes, how are we expected to believe that Rider B can afford the type of horse, training, and expenses involved in even being able to "battle it out" for first place at an A show?

Contrary to popular opinion, it is quite possible to show at an A show without spending a ton of $$. They really don't check anyone's W2 at the ingate.

Yes, many people at the A shows have spent a lot on their horse, attire, tack, and training. Others don't; the point is that it is perfectly possible to "look the part" without spending a fortune.

The horse might be an expensive WB or an inexpensive OTTB; I've shown both at lots of A shows and frankly, pinned about the same on them (pilot error being a common, and consistent factor.) The WB is a nice horse and was easier to bring along but the OTTB was fancy as h*ll and frankly much the better mover. Translation: looking at them both side by side, you'd assume the TB was the more expensive model, but that was after I'd spent many YEARS bringing him along to the point where he was well schooled enough to be competitive. However, on the basis of purchase price - the TB was very inexpensive. (No matter what the original cost, they ALL cost $ to house and feed, after all... again a fairly consistent factor.)

As many other people have noted, if you want the top brands and they fit you well (or you have them tailored to fit well) there is no way for anyone to know if you marched into Beval to make your purchase, or patiently stalked Ebay and got the whole ensemble for under $100.

At the end of the day, you can put yourself together well (yes, on a budget) and walk into the ring on a gleaming, well schooled horse, no matter WHAT your initial capital investment might have been. Elbow grease costs only your time, the same as with practice without stirrups, attention to detail, etc. That says to the judge that you are serious..."watch me, I'm your winner."

You can also enter the ring looking like you rolled right out of bed onto your horse and no amount of $$$ invested will change the impression you make that you are poorly prepared and unlikely to merit a ribbon.

Personally I want to start from a score of 100 and work my way down if I mess up. Starting out with a low grade based on appearance in a subjectively evaluated competition makes no sense to me... but it has nothing at all to do with money.

[pattnic]

If the judge can read the label on my breeches, it means I'm laying on the ground in front of the judge's box. Probably not going to pin with that....

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! :lol: :lol:

[superpony123]

A little off topic but.....
In your example, Rider A and B are battling it out for first place at an "A" show. Rider B can't afford the nicer clothes that Rider A can afford.

Question - if Rider B can't afford the clothes, how are we expected to believe that Rider B can afford the type of horse, training, and expenses involved in even being able to "battle it out" for first place at an A show?

Trust me--I've seen lots of "Rider B's" at AA shows here. In zone 2. a very competitive and fairly expensive show. The kick is that i actually know who some of these people are (not friends with them but they are well known) and what's oddest to me is that theyre WEALTHY. But their kids show without hairnets and their helmets dont seem to fit all that well, shirts arent tucket in, cotton breeches that are WAY. TOO. TIGHT. Granted, those particular people do jumpers, but goodness! :lol::lol:

I think it's possible that some people--particularly those with money at least in that case, dont care enough about their turn out. Couldn't be that many people, but still. It's so strange when i see these types at big shows !

And it's certainly possible to go to an A show without a lot of money. It's also very possible to buy nice clothes at a good price. I just bought a used Grand Prix coat for $150 on eBay. It's 400$ if i bought it new at the store. You can't even tell i bought it used! If you scour ebay and the bargain isles and go to the sales, you can really get away with a lot for a little $$

[superpony123]

superpony123... I just had to giggle when I read your post. Aren't you considering going to the University of Virginia? You best get used to that "blue and orange" kind of thing! ;) Cavaliers are quite attached to their navy blue and orange.

I've read a lot of your posts and seen pics of your and your adorable pony. You both always look lovely... and I remember that you shop around and get a lot of your show clothes on sale. You're a good example of how riders can get the look they want without the huge price tag.

hahahah well yes i can certainly tolerate it as school colors! :lol:

thanks ! and yes i love sales and ebay <33 i just got a grand prix coat for $150 on ebay used! it's 400$ new at the store!

[enjoytheride]

But jumpers isn't about fashion so they can wear whatever they want right? No hairnets, the dreaded cotton breeches, hoodie, ear bonnets on the horse, all sorts of things

[IsolaBella09]

And just because someone has money or is wealthy doesn't mean they will purchase 5 new Grand Prix coats, 6 pairs of TSs and 3 pairs of Vogels. Maybe they would rather purchase expensive things for their horse and keep their attire on the conservative side. This sport is after all, about the horse, right?

[dogchushu]

The less expensive brands are appropriate, and (provided they are clean and fit) won't adversely affect your pinning at all. Personally, I'd rather see someone in a less expensive brand that fits them well rather than see someone shove themselves into a size 8 short jacket just because it's a Grand Prix when they should wear a 10 regular.

Personally, I like to find the higher end brands on consigment. With a few exceptions, they are higher priced for a reason: nice quality. But it is personal preference. A lower end jacket may not have the lovely drape and gorgeous fabric of a GP, but both are appropriate (provided they are clean and fit).

In addition to the recommendations to scour ebay, craigs list, and consignment sections, I'd recommend sticking to classic colors and styles while avoiding trends. That way, you won't feel out of date and need to replace your stuff every year. You also can get a feel for when things are going to be available. My local tack store gets a lot of used items in after the show season ends. You can also often find great deals on new items that are overstocks of last year's trendy color or style. As mentioned, I prefer the classics (so I don't have to buy as frequently), but it's an option for others.

[Abbeyroad1791]

But jumpers isn't about fashion so they can wear whatever they want right? No hairnets, the dreaded cotton breeches, hoodie, ear bonnets on the horse, all sorts of things

Just because the jumpers arn't judged on making a pretty picture doesn't mean its still acceptable to go into the ring looking like a mess though! Afterall, it is a sport, with proper attire. Just because someone isn't too interested in how their shirt accents their jacket and buying socks to pull the whole outfit together (:winkgrin: !!) doesn't mean that they don't care about dressing neatly and conservatively.

Just a side note.. I wouldn't be so fast to categorize the properly dressed riders as wealthier or better off than improperly dressed riders. I would dare to say that it really is more about experience and knowledge of the horse world. Atleast at my barn, we have a trainer who is really great about making sure all of her kids are dressed properly. When they get that first pony, she makes sure to let them know what attire is acceptable and they get the hunter hair etc etc. I think it really is all about having someone more experienced to set the bar.

[Mtn trails]

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for being able to show at the upper levels without spending the eqivalent of a new Mercedes. I think it's ludicris being expected to shell out mega bucks just to be "competitive." I have an Econo-nag myself and we muddle around at this and that and skrimp and save so I can at least do one schooling event this year. My boots are Ariat challengers - ebay, $100.00. Coat is a Grand Prix - $50, consignment, Breeches are all off of ebay except for 2 pair I bought new. Shirts are all off ebay. One of my nicest shirts has an already monogrammed choker so when I wear it my first name is Vivian. :D

Judges never looked at what I wore, I was neat, tidy, and clean.

[MyGiantPony]

I think it's ludicris being expected to shell out mega bucks just to be "competitive."

If it's ludicris, he can afford it. ;)

[2DogsFarm]

Yes, yes they do. As a matter of fact, you are required to submit a list of the brands that you and your horse are wearing. Classes are pinned in order of who spent the most - the whole riding thing is just a formality. Also, anyone riding a horse which is not an imported Euroblood will be automatically disqualified.

:lol::lol::lol:

SNL: I used to keep a tube of lipstick in my tack box just so when my trainer asked:
"Did you bring lipstick?"
I could truthfully answer "Yes"

I have never been a girly-girl and somehow we still managed to pin & win with my sadly unlipsticked lips.....

[LetsChat]

it's not a matter of "rider A has a GPA and rider B has a troxel so i think since a GPA is more expensive this rider is better"

think of it this way. particularly for hunters and eq (obviously): you are trying to show off your horse and yourself as best as you can. turnout is IMPORTANT.

lets say we're at an A show. two riders put in equally good rounds. let's disregard the other competitors and say these two are battling for first/second place.

Rider A has a hairnet that matches her hair color, her hair is nicely put away in "hunter hair" under her helmet. shes wearing a CO Hampton, it's a classic helmet, discreet but stylish. not distracting what so ever. her hunt coat is a nice dark charcoal color, it is modest but still attractive with a slight plaid pattern, lets say blue, and so she wears a matching blue shirt. gloves are black leather or black synthetic. breeches are TS regular rise side zips. boots are lovely, rich, smooth, shiny black leather field boots. they fit the rider perfectly. all of her clothes fit as if theyve been tailored.

Rider B has a coat that is clearly cheaper (you can tell its not made from wool--you know, those polyester blend kinds) and is also very ill fitting. the rider may be on a budget and bought it on the sale rack and it was the only one she could afford even though it does not fit. she is wearing a short sleeve show shirt, and you can tell because the cuffs do not show under her sleeve. the gloves may be dirty schooling gloves. breeches are cotton front zip pull-ons that get bunched up in the front, and the cotton itself screams "schooling." her boots are either very cheap leather and do not fit, or they are synthetic. her hair is in a show bow, hanging out at the base of her neck under her bright blue troxel helmet.

who do you think is going to win?

hunters is not a fashion show, don't get yourself confused. it's about who can make the best presentation of their horse and themselves. showing up like rider B says "im sorry, i dont care enough to make myself look impeccable" --while most of us know that really Rider B cant afford to have nicer clothes, rider B cant expect to win in such attire.

when clothes are ill fitting, it is not only extremely DISTRACTING from the horse, it can make the rider look worse than they may be. ive seen good riders who wear clothe sthat dont fit properly and it totally throws off the way their position APPEARS. how is the judge supposed to know weather theyre slouching and ducking over the fence or if really their jacket is just bunching up at the shoulders because it doesn't fit? they have to assume the rider is slouching.

judges dont care how much you paid. they care about how you present yourself. i paid $150 for a used grand prix jacket that sells for $400 new. do you think the judge knows that? he doesnt care, because the jacket fits me like a glove and he can see what i really look like in the saddle

i pick out what colors im going to wear according to my horse. why? he is a lovely white and chestnut pinto pony and i want to compliment his color, not clash. so, i don't wear navy jackets, i dont wear blue tinged jackets. i will wear blue shirts, but i wear a charcoal coat with it. i wear rust with a brown jacket too. everything looks neat and tidy. my pony is the main focus, because while i am dressed impeccably, it's not a distraction. my outfits just look really good with my pony. it makes his color pop.

I like your example.... the way I see it, this is a tremendously expensive sport. we spend $500 to $1000 A MONTH just to keep the animals ALIVE, then training, shipping, trailering, show fees, braiding.... the list goes on.... sit out a show or two and you have a nice chunk of change for an outfit. Do it right. If you can't afford a nice coat, don't show. I don't mean to sound snooty, really I don't. I like the examples of getting things second hand or on ebay but honestly, even if you only have ONE outfit, makesure it is a good one, good fitting and quality. It's worth it. It just sends the message that you are prepared and educated and interested in making a good impression. JMO

[chawley]

Originally Posted by Kestrel
If the judge can read the label on my breeches, it means I'm laying on the ground in front of the judge's box. Probably not going to pin with that....

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Haha...I love it! So true.

I grew up showing the A circuit wearing nothing but hand-me-downs. My parents didn't have the money to buy top notch stuff and send me to the shows, but I was lucky enough to have friends that could afford nice things and were happy to share. :) I'm grateful that as an adult, I have been able to purchase some nice pieces that I take impeccable care of in the hopes they last a long time.

But, as others have said, clean, pressed, properly fitted clothes, regardless of the brand, are necessary to show proper respectful to your horse and the judge. It's no different than showing up to a job interview looking sloppy and unkept. You don't have to wear a designer suit to look pulled together and professional.

[magnolia73]

Judges never looked at what I wore, I was neat, tidy, and clean.

Yeah- that's the key. You aren't dressing to stand out, you are dressing to blend in. People dress so similarly that looking a little different can be glaring. If you want to go different, you'd better pull it off really well. Think of it as going on a job interview- you can indeed wear a $5000 custom seville row navy suit. But it better fit and be clean. You can also go to the thrift store and pick up a really nice navy jones new york all wool suit for $50. It better fit and be clean. And you could say, hit walmart and buy a poly blend suit and maybe if it fits well and is clean.... it still looks a little cheap. You kind of look chintzy next to Seville Row and Jones New York and are maybe depending on the interviewer starting off a bit behind them on first impression.... And some interviewers could care less and maybe you are way smarter and much better qualified. Of course you are still in better shape than the bimbo in the skin tight, thigh high satin suit with no shirt worn below the low cut jacket. Again, depending on interviewer.

[AppendixQHLover]

And some interviewers could care less and maybe you are way smarter and much better qualified. Of course you are still in better shape than the bimbo in the skin tight, thigh high satin suit with no shirt worn below the low cut jacket. Again, depending on interviewer.

OMG..someone wore that on a interview that I particpated in. The guys were drooling. I had to be the mature adult out of the group. :lol:

[JenEM]

I think the key if you're bargain hunting is to go to a store that does carry nice brands, and try some on! Figure out what fits you, and in what sizes, so you can know what to look for. The only piece of riding apparel I paid full price for was my helmet (GR8). I don't think I've paid over $100 for a coat or breeches, and I can turn myself out quite nicely. It can be done, you just have to be aware of where and how you're spending your money.

If a rider shows up in well-fitting navy coat, white shirt, and tan breeches, no one's going to bat an eye, or ask for a brand check. So much of turnout isn't brand or pricetag, it is fit, and it is neatness and cleanliness. Clean and neat don't cost any more for a custom coat or an off the rack Devonaire, and putting your hair up isn't difficult.