Being penalized for being an amateur in the 3'?

[Rubs Not Pats]

I am an amateur who has shown in the A/A's. I breed my own horses and want to bring my first one along (with trainer guidance) mostly by myself. For a little history, she is three and doing small jumps. I want to take her to an upcomming show and because I have shown in 3' and above, my only choice is non-pro (2'6), which at this point, given her age, my skill and her greeness, would not be an option. I also have four year olds in the same boat, only they have done the young hunters before with the trainer. I am at least a year away from the 2'6 with the four year olds and much longer than that with the three year old. I need a crossrails class or at best a 2'3 class where I can trot in /canter out and simple change. I guess what I am looking for is what people do with their really green horses (not those green horses from Europe who just finished a year in the 1.4M)? Do you only do schooling shows, show it against the pro's mid week in the Baby Greens or just say forget it and give it to the trainer? I have an interest in learning about working more with the young ones and need the show miles. This is going to be an ongoing problem as I breed babies.

[Tha Ridge]

I had a full-time trainer, but I showed a horse in the 3'3" Pre-Greens as a junior and was moderately successful, even in some decent competition.

Depending on where you're showing (I assume you're not talking WEF or somewhere like that), most of the Baby Greens are legitimate. You'll have a few of the fancy ones who step in and will sweep every class, but at that level, if you can find all the jumps (which I hope you can, to be showing a very young green horse), you'll be fine.

[joiedevie99]

If the horse is so green that it needs to trot in and canter out over cross-rails, I'd probably take it along for the experience and only show it on the flat, or find a schooling show that will let me show HC in the short stirrup/long stirrup division.

ETA: If the horse is ready for the baby greens by all means show against the pros. I think its fun, and no one will look twice at someone who isn't a pro.

[Couture TB]

I only do schooling shows with the young ones. They have x rail classes and other heights and are SO much cheaper.

[JB]

Schooling shows, unjudged in Short Stirrup for a really little, easy start, especially given that I don't have "show" jumps :D

Then some C shows at the 2' Special Hunters if you have that.

[mvp]

I can't quite figure out what you want-- to be competitive in some division? To find a show-- any show-- that will give your baby milage?

The way I always did it was to bring the youngster to a multiple day show and not show. I would hand-walk, lunge, hack whenever I had time (I was usually working for someone else). Then I would jump in the lowest hunter ring at the end of the day, taking down back rails or modifying verticals if I had to.

It never took much work to do the little bit of actual jumping my young horse could mentally do. I also liked going to a multiple-day show because it gave him several chances to figure it all out.

Will this old-school program not work any more? Am I out of the loop?

[Rubs Not Pats]

Basically it comes down to this. This time of the year our barn is at only the A shows. I can't expect the trainer to drop her A clients, of which I am one, so I am trying to fit in and make this work without being a problem. I guess the question is why there is no exception for people showing three and four year olds in lower divisions, even if it is just for the experience. And personally, I did the low's and a/a's last year and I was intimidated beyond all get up in the lows by the trainers sitting on the rail waiting for their rounds. I just want to get the horse in the ring, with no expectations. Had I not shown in the 3', I would have options, but this is not about me and what I can do on my other more made horse. This is about my greenies. We say we want to be able to bring horses along in this country but yet we realistically limit the opportunities for them to show with anyone other than professionals.

As for the bring her to the show for the experience, she did the line stuff a little and could care less. Part of this whole thing is to get her in the schooling ring to deal with more traffic, something I normally do not have at home. I guess yes, we could take her in the ring after the show is done, but if it is like HITS this year, it may not be possible.

I guess my point is why we don't have any green as grass type things or exceptions in lower divisions from the rules precluding you from showing if you have shown over a certain height for legitimate greenies? Especially on the weekend.

[Addison]

Don't let those pros waiting on deck intimidate you. In all honesty, they simply want to give their horse a good ride and most don't care about who is in the ring ahead of them. If they do care , then so what? Let it be their problem and don't make it one of yours. Concentrate on why you are there.

At this level in the horse's training the only thing that matters is that they get some good, positive rides and have an overall good experience. The ribbons really should not matter at all at this point.

The only place you are going to find a cross rails class for horses is going to be at a schooling show.

My current horse spent two years doing classes like "crossrail hunters" and "wanna be a hunter" before she ever went to an A/AA show. If you are going to be breeding and training babies you really have to enjoy the process and part of that is schooling shows. At the time, I was at a barn where they did some breeding, had a lot of babies and went to A, B,C rated, and schooling shows. It worked out perfectly.

[meupatdoes]

I am honestly a little confused by your post.

Basically it comes down to this. This time of the year our barn is at only the A shows. I can't expect the trainer to drop her A clients, of which I am one, so I am trying to fit in and make this work without being a problem. I guess the question is why there is no exception for people showing three and four year olds in lower divisions, even if it is just for the experience. And personally, I did the low's and a/a's last year and I was intimidated beyond all get up in the lows by the trainers sitting on the rail waiting for their rounds. I just want to get the horse in the ring, with no expectations.
If you just want to get the horse in the ring with no expectations, then I do not understand why the fact that a pro might go in the ring after you do makes everything scarier. The jumps are the same either way.

Had I not shown in the 3', I would have options, but this is not about me and what I can do on my other more made horse. This is about my greenies. We say we want to be able to bring horses along in this country but yet we realistically limit the opportunities for them to show with anyone other than professionals.
You seem to be saying that you feel unable to bring the horse in the ring because the 2'6" height in the adult modifies is too high.
You appear to be under the impression that the professionals have something that you don't in this department.
What rated shows are you at where the pros have a crossrail division to hop around?


I guess my point is why we don't have any green as grass type things or exceptions in lower divisions from the rules precluding you from showing if you have shown over a certain height for legitimate greenies? Especially on the weekend.

There is a difference between a rated show and a schooling show. Schooling shows are for teaching horses and riders how to horse show. Rateds are not, at least not until you and the horse have mastered the 2'6" (whether pro or amateur, really).

Rather than going to the type of show that is appropriate for what your horse is doing, you are trying to get the rated shows to do cater to you and do something they are simply not designed for. You need to modify your plan to the situation, not try to modify the situation to your desires.

If your trainer is not running the type of program that is appropriate for you and your horse at this time, why are you with them? I mean, sure I could take my 3yo to a trainer who leaves for WEF in the winter and put him on the truck to Florida, but it would not be the appropriate situation for my horse. For my made horse, possibly. For the baby, no.

You can always go back to your trainer when your horse is ready, but spending ten times as much money on rated shows, and forking over money in board every month for a trainer whose program is currently incompatible with your horse does not make the most sense, imo.

However, if you are going to take on the training of a young horse in the first place, going to a schooling show by yourself should not be a big deal. Take a lesson the day before with the trainer and then just head out if you HAVE to ride with that trainer but they won't take you to appropriate shows for your horse.

Here are videos of me and my 3 yo at a schooling show two weeks ago.
He was started under saddle in November, for reference.

Hack:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZCtopa1cy8

OF
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbwb_aGNWIA

See?
No big deal.
A 3' rider with enough show experience to point out should be able to handle this on their own.

Grand total expense:
$80 total for entries
$15 facilities fee
$50 trailering
$75 coaching


Life is so much easier (and less expensive!) when you go to the appropriate venue for your horse's ability.

<b>ETA</b>
And I totally agree with Addison that if you are going to be bringing along babies, you are going to need to enjoy the process, and that schooling a part of that process.

[Alterageous]

I guess my point is why we don't have any green as grass type things or exceptions in lower divisions from the rules precluding you from showing if you have shown over a certain height for legitimate greenies? Especially on the weekend.

Because the green as grass divisions don't take place at the rated shows. I'm not clear on what you want. A crossrails division can't allow pros. That would be massively unfair to the six year olds.

The rateds are not the place for a uber-green horse. That's why the divisions count your years of showing at RATED shows.

If the fences in the 2'6 are too big the horse is not ready to be showing. Show her in a flat class or, don't go to shows where they require you to do the whole division.

I'm really not seeing what the crisis is here. If all the rated shows had tiny itty bitty divisions, they'd just be really fancy schooling shows. Those already exist. The point is that a rated show is where you go to COMPETE and a schooling show is where you go to LEARN.

If you're with a trainer who doesn't understand that, then why is the horse in her program?

[IslandGirl]

Everything that meupatdoes wrote, PLUS:

You don't definitively indicate if you're playing in the hunter world or the jumper world. That makes a difference as to what classes you may have available to you.

If it's hunters, you're saying you want a crossrail division, restricted to amateurs, at "A" shows, on the weekends. THAT's not going to happen because there simply aren't enough hours in a day for a horse show to be able to cater to that crowd, especially on the weekends. Weekends usually are reserved for adult amateurs (most of whom who have jobs), and kids (who go to school). The pro classes run during the week because the pros usually are the ones who are bringing along the green horses—that IS their job. You can't have it both ways.

Go to schooling shows until you (and/or your horse[s]) is/are ready to step into the world of "A" shows. But, be forewarned: you'll probably end up showing against professionals at schooling shows, too. However, most schooling shows generally cater to a less-experienced crowd, and often offer lower-level divisions exactly for that reason. That's why they're called "schooling" shows.

If it's "not about you" and "just for the experience" with "no expectations," then what difference does it make WHO you show against? You being intimidated sounds like a personal confidence issue you need to overcome. The best way to do that is...JUST DO IT. Who cares if you get a ribbon or not? You'll feel better once you've done it, and will gain confidence each time you step in to the ring against those pros.

Many "A" shows also offer a Pre-Adult division that is restricted to amateurs, but riding in that division usually means you can't show above a certain height AT THAT SHOW. Just because you've previously shown at 3' doesn't mean you can't drop down a level or more for your green horses. I really don't understand why you think having shown at 3' before precludes you from showing at lower heights at rated shows.

If you and your horse(s) and trainer are already at the "A" shows, then ride your horse in the schooling ring in the morning with the other horses (traffic). It might mean getting up at 4 a.m., but if your horse needs the mileage and will benefit from it, then you do what you gotta do.

[ynl063w]

Why don't you get the prize lists for the shows your trainer is going to, read all the division specs, and pick one that you and your horse can do. Don't rated shows have baby green divisions? Some shows have a 2' modified division too. I'm also confused about why your having shown over 3' in the past is a problem.

[evans36]

And personally, I did the low's and a/a's last year and I was intimidated beyond all get up in the lows by the trainers sitting on the rail waiting for their rounds. I just want to get the horse in the ring, with no expectations.

If you really just want to get the horse in the ring with no expectations, why are you so intimidated by the professionals? They were amateurs once too, and they definitely all understand what it's like to ride a green horse. They're not in the ring with you to get in your way or anything... it sounds to me like you're not being completely honest about having no expectations, or else there would really be no reason for you to be intimidated. If the ring is the same and you're the only one in it doing your course, that's all that matters... unless you DO have expectations beyond getting some experience under the horse's girth.

Just try going into it with the idea that you're going to lose anyhow, and you're giving those trainers someone to beat, so they need you. Then if you beat them, it's gravy.

[pcwertb]

RNP,

I think I understand where you are coming from. For me, even the schooling shows limit my ability to show my babies.

For example, since I showed in the adults 2'9-3' from 2000 to 2005, I am not eligible for crossrails (adults), long stirrup (18") or beginner hunter (2'). Ok, fine. So I'll wait and do the baby green 2'3 division, right? Yeah, except the schooling shows axed that division and added 2'3 step up hunter, which once again I am "too qualified" to ride in. I'm an ammie, and where the hell am I supposed to show 3 and 4 year old large ponies and my young trakehner? Basically, wait until they can do 2'6 lows? Hello, this is a schooling show series.

I'm not sure why all the rules state the rider can't have shown at a higher level. What about the friggin horse? Everytime you get a young one and start over, you are screwed.

[Hunter Mom]

Different local circuits have different rules. The one we go to most has an 18" for beginning riders and a 2' for juniors/amateurs. If the show offers it, there may also be an 18" hunter division. Check around and see if you can find those.

I agree - if this trainer isn't fitting with your goals, perhaps you should find a different one who will work with your goals for your babies. It sounds as though you may be in this boat with different babies for a few years.

Good luck!

[findeight]

Divisions get dropped at local shows due to consistant lack of entires. They can't please everybody and there is only so much daylight and so long humans can work those rings. Something has to go and it is divisions that are spotty at best attendance wise.

In OPs case, no idea what the locals offer in Arizona but expecting the A and AA shows to add some kind of unrated baby wannbe non pro classses to an already too full plate is just not making any sense to me.

Rated shows are where you go to show off what you know. Schooling shows are where you go to learn, even if you go in unjudged, just to get the miles in. Or get it done at home.

Also, venture to say most good Pros come right in at 2'6"
Baby Greens and don't even bother to haul them any lower then that, even to a schooling show. At 1 to 2k a week for a rated, it's an awfully expensive schooling ride for them or their clients even if the rateds offered anything at those heights.

OP, this one is THREE? Stay home, polish it up, get it going at 2'6"-probably end of this year- a little and plan on next year after this one grows up a little. You got lots of time and it is a baby.
You wanna show, go unjudged in a local or just do some flat classes at one. m ileage is mileage and a three year old is too young to push over any fences in the show ring.

[meupatdoes]

RNP,

I think I understand where you are coming from. For me, even the schooling shows limit my ability to show my babies.

For example, since I showed in the adults 2'9-3' from 2000 to 2005, I am not eligible for crossrails (adults), long stirrup (18") or beginner hunter (2'). Ok, fine. So I'll wait and do the baby green 2'3 division, right? Yeah, except the schooling shows axed that division and added 2'3 step up hunter, which once again I am "too qualified" to ride in. I'm an ammie, and where the hell am I supposed to show 3 and 4 year old large ponies and my young trakehner? Basically, wait until they can do 2'6 lows? Hello, this is a schooling show series.

I'm not sure why all the rules state the rider can't have shown at a higher level. What about the friggin horse? Everytime you get a young one and start over, you are screwed.

I thiiiiiink you are taking the schooling show prize list a leeeeetle too seriously. (Either that or you are describing the divisions designed for beginner adults at the RATED shows, in which case the PROS do not have 18" divisions EITHER.)

The classes from the videos above were in the Beginner Hunter division at a schooling show. They were "restricted" to horses who had never shown above 2'. So the eligibility depended on the horse's experience, not the riders.

Still, it was a schooling show so no one cares. The horse that beat mine for Champion is also from our barn, is 8 years old with mileage, and has shown plenty of times in the 2'6" and even 3' divisions with the trainer, but her owner wanted to take it easy and do a little schooling show.

Was anyone going to be like, "EXCUUUUSE ME I SAW THAT HORSE IN THE HI/LOS AT JUNE FETE LAST YEAR."?

No.

If there is an 'eligibility' problem then
1.) stick with classes where the eligibility goes by the HORSE
(btw, I have very little rated experience so I DO qualify for the long stirrup. Am I going to take my 3yo in the long stirrup division against those beginner adults? No. Come on, people. Those divisions are for adults who are beginners, not for slick ammies training up their youngins.) So, I repeat, stick with classes where the eligibility goes by the HORSE.
Pros go to schooling shows too, what classes do you think they ride in?

2.) If there are only classes grouped by rider resume, talk with the schooling show peeps. If there are three horses going around the crossrails ask if you can join in. They will probably be cool with it. To be sportsmanly, if the class is grouped by *rider* resume and you are now riding against adults who really are beginners, 'throw' the class by going off course on purpose and adding an extra jump.

Alternatively wait three more months until your horse is doing the 2'6".
I agree with the poster above that most good pros just wait until the horse can hop around the 2'6" and do that. It actually IS possible to train up a horse without access to an 18" division. At the rateds, those divisions are usually meant for beginner RIDERS, and people who are good enough to train up a young one don't belong in them. Ammy or no.

[magnolia73]

Is there anything stopping you from riding HC in a division you are ineligible for? Go do the crossrails, get the experience and forgo the ribbons.

[maddyh]

I'm a little confused...If the horse has not shown over 2 foot, why can't he show in Beginner Hunter? Isn't participation based on horse's experience (not rider's) in this division?

[findeight]

Beginner Hunter may not be offered in Arizona or may not be on the horse, it is unrated and the definitions vary by region.

But in most places I have shown, she could go in the BH without question.

[Janet]

It is a little hard to follow, but this is what I THINK she is trying to say.

1-She is an amateur competing in the hunters

2-She is going to A and AA shows with TWO horses. One is competing at 3'6" or higher. The other is green, but ready to start showing at 3' for the experience.

3-She would like to take her green horse in the Adult Amateur hunters, but she can not, because she is showing her other horse at 3'6" or others.

4-There are 3' classes during the week for which she and the green horse would be eligible but
a) they are during the week
b) she is intimidated by the pros

5- She would like it if there was a class
a) at 3'
b) on the weekend
c) with only amateurs (no pros), but without the restriction about not riding other horses at 3'6"

If I am correct in my interpretation, I don't think there is much chance of such a class being offered. There just aren't enough people who want that- most of the people who want to jump 3' without competing against pros already compete in A/A, and wouldn't switch divisions to compete against the A/O riders. THEY would be as intimidated by the A/O riders as YOU are by the Pros.

My recommendation would be just to compete against the pros during the week. There is no rational reason to be more intiidated by the pros watching the lows than the pros watching the A/As or A/Os. You are only doing it for the horse's expereince, just shut the watching pros out of your awareness.

[RockinHorse]

IThe classes from the videos above were in the Beginner Hunter division at a schooling show. They were "restricted" to horses who had never shown above 2'. So the eligibility depended on the horse's experience, not the riders.

Still, it was a schooling show so no one cares. The horse that beat mine for Champion is also from our barn, is 8 years old with mileage, and has shown plenty of times in the 2'6" and even 3' divisions with the trainer, but her owner wanted to take it easy and do a little schooling show.

Was anyone going to be like, "EXCUUUUSE ME I SAW THAT HORSE IN THE HI/LOS AT JUNE FETE LAST YEAR."?



:mad: Sorry, this attitude drives me nuts. Since it is just a schooling show, it is okay to cheat? :dead:

There are plenty of people who will never have the money, time or animal to do rated shows. What to you may be just a schooling show could be something someone else has looked forward to and worked toward. Those people were probably not at the june Fete last year to see the horse in the Hi/Lows.

Sorry, IMO, cheating is cheating no matter where you do it.

Okay, off my soapbox now.

[xabbracadabra]

Thats what the beginner hunter ring is for. It does not matter what YOUR show record is there it matters what the HORSES is. Almost every show I know of has one even the AAs except for places like Hits and WEF. The courses are simple at 2ft as the highest. Or hell, even do Pleasure. It will get your horse out there and some pleasure classes have a few jumps in one class

[vxf111]

Decide what show you're going to. Pick a division with specs that make you feel comfortable. Call management. Ask if you can show HC. If they say yes, go, turn your number over/upside down, and ride in the class.

Who cares if it's short stirrup and the other competitors are 7 years old, you're going HC and you won't be judged. Everyone will know that because you've cleared it with management and flipped your number. I probably wouldn't hack, that's just me, because I think it's a bit rude to have a green horse in with the packer ponies-- but you can certainly jump without bothering the other riders in the division.

I think most shows will let you do this if you ask ahead of time.

[findeight]

I am an amateur who has shown in the A/A's. I breed my own horses and want to bring my first one along...For a little history, she is three and doing small jumps. I want to take her to an upcomming show and because I have shown in 3' and above, my only choice is non-pro (2'6), which at this point, given her age, my skill and her greeness, would not be an option....I am at least a year away from the 2'6 with the four year olds and much longer than that with the three year old. I need a crossrails class or at best a 2'3 class where I can trot in /canter out and simple change.

See, I don't get any concerns about A/O- Adult cross entries here and don't see she wants to take either the 3 year old or the 4 year olds to 3'. Seems to be looking for a maximum 2'3" class where trotting is not penalized.

No such animal at a USEF A rated. She will have to stay small show oriented and, far as I know, that is what most breeders do with babies. Or they wait until they can do an official 2'6" Baby Green.

OP, if you have a trainer? Why not let them ride the 4 year olds in appropriate classes? Nothing wrong with getting an appropriate foundation on a youngster from a qualified Pro...not a fan of the learn by doing with good quality babies if you have never done it before. Especially if teaching them to jump is involved.

[Janet]

Then I am TOTALLY confused.

[ccoronios]

Rubs, I sort of understand where you're coming - being a bit intimidated by the pros. I got over that REAL FAST the first time I showed jumpers. (Not over fences - jumpers)

LI - winter show - late '60s. I was in the truck getting my boots on and my hair up. I looked out the door to see two people getting out of a maroon Jag with Jersey plates. I looked at my trainer and said, "Tell me those people aren't who I think they are." Walter looked out and said, "That's Frank & Mary Chapot." Sure...my debut... against Olympic medalists. In one class, Frank beat me by 1/2 point and I beat Mary by 1/2 point. I'm sure that was a fluke, but....it happened.

Oh - and they didn't bite, kick, scratch or throw rocks - I was just another competitor. They were there to school greenies.

C

[joiedevie99]

It seems that she is restricted out of the under 2'6" classes at the particular A shows her trainer goes to because she has previously shown at 3' on another horse. She thinks the amateur 2'6" that she is eligible for is too big for the current horse.

I get the impression that there may be some under 2'6" classes during the week that are open to pros that she doesn't want to show against.

So the answer seems to be either show against the pros during the week or show HC in whatever you want if management will allow it.

[Rubs Not Pats]

Thank you for the help. I think I figured out what I am going to do.

[meupatdoes]

I get the impression that there may be some under 2'6" classes during the week that are open to pros that she doesn't want to show against.


See, this is where I am confused.
Where exactly are these baby pro divisions?

The only super low OF classes at rated horse shows are the ones for the beginner adults. They are not only restricted to amateurs, but restricted to amateurs who have not qualified out of them at any point in their careers.

Due to my total lack of a junior career, I technically was ELIGIBLE for the low adults at Monmouth for my horse's first A rated experience, but I showed in the unrestricted 2'6" modifieds. Walking past the low adult rings I saw a group of people whose trainers were helping them out, clucking "pace, PACE!" in the turns, giving pep talks, cheering enthusiastically from the rail when somebody finally closed their eyes, prayed and added gas to ride that line with no chip at the end, or calling, "See? YOU CAN DO IT!, ok, now look around your turn to the next one...." when someone made it over that one jump that took a couple tries.
It was so cute to watch I could have cried.

That is what the 'restricted' amateur divisions the OP is talking about are for.
They are NOT for adults who are slick enough to make up their own horse and just want to have a class to do a schooling round in (but please could we keep Sandy Farell out). In these divisions, the adults who are slick enough to make up their own horse ARE Sandy Farell, comparatively speaking.

The OP does not want to ride against pros at the height her horse is capable of. Probably the OP would have a shizzlefit if Sandy Farell snuck in to her amateur divisions.

Well, the adult amateurs who belong in the restricted amateur divisions do not want to ride against experienced 3' riders with horse show mileage under their belts. They get to have their crossrail division because they are just learning how to make it around, not because they are teaching a young prospect about jumping around.

If you are going to take on the training of a young horse, man up and stay away from the beginner divisions at the rateds, or go to a schooling show like everyone else does.

[xabbracadabra]

See, this is where I am confused.
Where exactly are these baby pro divisions?

The only super low OF classes at rated horse shows are the ones for the beginner adults. They are not only restricted to amateurs, but restricted to amateurs who have not qualified out of them at any point in their careers.

Due to my total lack of a junior career, I technically was ELIGIBLE for the low adults at Monmouth for my horse's first A rated experience, but I showed in the unrestricted 2'6" modifieds. Walking past the low adult rings I saw a group of people whose trainers were helping them out, clucking "pace, PACE!" in the turns, giving pep talks, cheering enthusiastically from the rail when somebody finally closed their eyes, prayed and added gas to ride that line with no chip at the end, or calling, "See? YOU CAN DO IT!, ok, now look around your turn to the next one...." when someone made it over that one jump that took a couple tries.
It was so cute to watch I could have cried.

That is what the 'restricted' amateur divisions the OP is talking about are for.
They are NOT for adults who are slick enough to make up their own horse and just want to have a class to do a schooling round in (but please could we keep Sandy Farell out). In these divisions, the adults who are slick enough to make up their own horse ARE Sandy Farell, comparatively speaking.

The OP does not want to ride against pros at the height her horse is capable of. Probably the OP would have a shizzlefit if Sandy Farell snuck in to her amateur divisions.

Well, the adult amateurs who belong in the restricted amateur divisions do not want to ride against experienced 3' riders with horse show mileage under their belts. They get to have their crossrail division because they are just learning how to make it around, not because they are teaching a young prospect about jumping around.

If you are going to take on the training of a young horse, man up and stay away from the beginner divisions at the rateds, or go to a schooling show like everyone else does.


Because the Low Adults at Monmouth is not Beginner Hunters. That is a 2'6 Eq and Hunter devision. It is the Adult version of Pre-Childrens. However, even at Monmouth "A" Beginner Hunters is for green horses. I should know because I have seen several green horses go in their with trainers on their back. The EQ on the other hand is a different story...

[BABYGREENTB]

:mad: Sorry, this attitude drives me nuts. Since it is just a schooling show, it is okay to cheat? :dead:

There are plenty of people who will never have the money, time or animal to do rated shows. What to you may be just a schooling show could be something someone else has looked forward to and worked toward. Those people were probably not at the june Fete last year to see the horse in the Hi/Lows.

Sorry, IMO, cheating is cheating no matter where you do it.

Okay, off my soapbox now.

You guys are hilarious...I think the person was suggesting that she do the crossrail division unjudged, therefore not cheating.

My understanding of the OP is that because she has shown over 3' at the rated shows, the prizelist at her local shows precludes her from showing in the 18"-2' classes. The 3 year old isn't ready to jump around at 2'6", so she wants to do the lower height divisions and is looking for a solution.

Call the show manager and ask if you can enter unjudged. You'll pay the same entries, etc., just won't be taking ribbons away from the true beginners if the babies march around.

[meupatdoes]

:mad: Sorry, this attitude drives me nuts. Since it is just a schooling show, it is okay to cheat? :dead:

There are plenty of people who will never have the money, time or animal to do rated shows. What to you may be just a schooling show could be something someone else has looked forward to and worked toward. Those people were probably not at the june Fete last year to see the horse in the Hi/Lows.

Sorry, IMO, cheating is cheating no matter where you do it.

Okay, off my soapbox now.

To give you the full picture there was a Beginner Equitation division as well, for riders with no experience above 2'.
The way the horse show ran the Beginner Hunter division was basicallly for "horses that for whatever reason need a low class today", regardless of what the prizelist technically defined it as.
I was probably the only person (out of all four people in the BH division) whose horse ACTUALLY had never jumped 2' in any competition before.

Meanwhile, if I had asked nicely if the jumps could be left crossrails and not put up to verticals for the second trip, they probably would have been like, "No problemo." If there is a turn that you don't like you can ask nice and they'll move the jump for you.
Yep.

My whole point is that schooling shows tend to be a little flexible. That is what schooling shows are FOR. Everybody who goes to that show knows that division descriptions are more guidelines than hard and fast rules, that the height of the jumps can be negotiated, that the course cna be negotiated..., so nobody was litigiously reading the prizelist to make sure everything happened EXACTLY AS WRITTEN.

If you want to litigiously enforce the prize list, stay away from that particular show. If you want a flexible place to introduce your baby to showing, load up and head on over.

It all boils down, once again, to finding the APPROPRIATE venue for what you would like to accomplish.

[meupatdoes]

Because However, even at Monmouth "A" Beginner Hunters is for green horses. I should know because I have seen several green horses go in their with trainers on their back.

The OP is not interested in a division based solely on a horse restriction (ie, horse has never done 2'+), because she does not want to ride in a pro division.

The OP would like an amateur class to school her horse in.

[Whimsically Smart]

RNP,

I think I understand where you are coming from. For me, even the schooling shows limit my ability to show my babies.

For example, since I showed in the adults 2'9-3' from 2000 to 2005, I am not eligible for crossrails (adults), long stirrup (18") or beginner hunter (2'). Ok, fine. So I'll wait and do the baby green 2'3 division, right? Yeah, except the schooling shows axed that division and added 2'3 step up hunter, which once again I am "too qualified" to ride in. I'm an ammie, and where the hell am I supposed to show 3 and 4 year old large ponies and my young trakehner? Basically, wait until they can do 2'6 lows? Hello, this is a schooling show series.

I'm not sure why all the rules state the rider can't have shown at a higher level. What about the friggin horse? Every time you get a young one and start over, you are screwed.


I had the exact same problem as the OP and the above poster when I wanted to show my made (I made her) horse in the 3'3 medals and my baby in the 2'6 hunters. Despite the fact that hunters are judged on the horse, the restrictions are placed on the rider. Well my baby was not about to jump a 3'3 fence and my made 3'3 horse was not about to jump at 2'6 jump well. I ended up getting around that by not taking my baby into the Pre-Children's division, but rather into a "Novice Rider" division, that I happened to be eligible for, somehow. At that same show my mom was going to take my horse into some of the really low stuff but because the horse had jumped 3'3 the year before she wasn't allowed to enter most of the classes, despite the fact that my mom had learnt to jump the previous winter and at 44 wasn't about to jump any bigger than the smallest speed bumps around.

I guess what I'm trying to say is look at the prize list carefully, there might be a division (like my Novice Rider) that you may not think you should be eligible for but in fact are.

[mvp]

I might be exactly the person schooling shows are built for. I don't have the money or help (or desire) to spend my time with horses chasing ribbons that cost, say, $400 a pop to win on the rated circuit. I do stay home, make my own horses and bring them to shows to give them and me an interesting, challenging little quiz. But I don't have the pull to get fences lowered, much less _moved_ to suit my horse and training agenda at a schooling show any more than I would have at a rated show.

Maybe I'm doing it wrong, or should just get some balls, but I wouldn't think it would be appropriate to do as meupatdoes suggests just because the show is local. I assume that the show management built a course that would be safe and useful to the majority of the competitors they attract. The course might not suit my planned ride, but if I just went to train, I can usually modify my ride to suit my horse. I'll let someone else farther along worry about winning that day, 'cause really, the opportunity what a *show* was meant to offer.

I am very grateful that we aren't in the 1960s anymore-- where I would have to wait until my horse could negotiate a 3'6" course before we left home. But I also don't see why people are jonesing for the expensive opportunity to jump 8 cross-rails at a show. Isn't this an early, short phase of training for horses who will progress and get to shows soon enough? While they are still in their greenhood, isn't it possible to find things to teach them at shows that don't require a formal class? My earlier post explained the way I took my young'un through is first year of showing while the lowest available divisions were the three foot. We divided the job of learning to jump from learning to go to a horse show. It turned out to be fine and cheap.

I like it that schooling shows try to emulate some of the formality and quality of the bigger rated events. Because a double-standard there for BNTs and nobodies would bug me, I don't try to change the rules for a little event. It seems perhaps a bit disrespectful. JMO-- don't mean to offend.

[meupatdoes]

I might be exactly the person schooling shows are built for. I don't have the money or help (or desire) to spend my time with horses chasing ribbons that cost, say, $400 a pop to win on the rated circuit. I do stay home, make my own horses and bring them to shows to give them and me an interesting, challenging little quiz. But I don't have the pull to get fences lowered, much less _moved_ to suit my horse and training agenda at a schooling show any more than I would have at a rated show.

Maybe I'm doing it wrong, or should just get some balls, but I wouldn't think it would be appropriate to do as meupatdoes suggests just because the show is local..

Well now here's a reading comprehension fail.

Please re-read my post and find the part where meupatdoes suggests, "I think you should go to a schooling show and have them move the jumps for you."

I would also like you to please find and deliver to me this "pull" that I, who have not even officially pointed out of long stirrup, have in the horse world.

I cited it as an EXAMPLE of the fact that THIS PARTICULAR schooling show is very FLEXIBLE, and that people know about this flexibility before they even get on the truck and so should not feel they are cheated out of their division when the show runs a little different from the prize list.

If anybody, regardless of "pull" had showed up and asked nicely if that jumped could be scooched away from the sunspot a little, they would happily accommodate. And the other four people in the division would not be sitting around at the ingate muttering about how that person is such a cheater.

They would simply have just as happily jumped the course with the jump scooched away from the sun spot, like sportsmen, so that an additional person could participate in the class can have a good time and feel comfortable.
For all of the people getting their panties in a wad about this hypothetical situation, chillax.
Seriously. Let the hypothetical nervous rider move their jump at the schooling show and get over it.


Through all of my posts I was the only one in my division whose horse WAS technically eligible it if we are going to brandish the prizelist litigiously, and I did NOT have the jumps lowered or moved to suit my agenda.

I went around twice to the left, and twice to the right, over the jumps that were just as the management set them (which for the record was on a half stride).

I did not feel "cheated" out of the championship because the whole purpose of this particular show is just to go and have a good time. Regardless of who ends up showing up on what horse and how closely the prize list is followed or whatever. That is how it is at THIS PARTICULAR show. Other shows are different.

My whole very much missed point has been throughout this whole thread that if you have a horse who needs an easier and/or more flexible atmosphere, then go to shows that have an easier and/or more flexible atmosphere instead of trying to make the rated shows accommodate you with an extra division just for your needs.

There is everything out there from schooling shows where you can customize the course to suit, to Devon where in the amateur hunters you have to own your own horse and jump big jumps and there's no foolin'.

Choose, from the endless options available, the APPROPRIATE venue for your horse.

[Hunter Mom]

Still, it was a schooling show so no one cares. The horse that beat mine for Champion is also from our barn, is 8 years old with mileage, and has shown plenty of times in the 2'6" and even 3' divisions with the trainer, but her owner wanted to take it easy and do a little schooling show.

Was anyone going to be like, "EXCUUUUSE ME I SAW THAT HORSE IN THE HI/LOS AT JUNE FETE LAST YEAR."?

No.

Obviously, you don't take small children to these shows. These might as well be medal finals for them. They are our next generation of A/AA exhibitors, and most have to start somewhere. IF they have fun, they are much more likely to stay with it, which keeps our sport alive.

Also, these shows are often a part of something that points are accumulated for year-end circuit awards. There is nothing a child loves more than getting a ribbon at the year-end awards ceremony that is as log as they are tall. Is it fair that you and your non-qualifying horse takes these away?

IF you go to a show, respect their rules. Cheaters are NEVER respected. The horse world is so small, people will find out. If you want to go into a class that you don't qualify for, enter as a not-to-be-judged entrant. You get the experience. Your horse show karma is intact. Small children aren't cheated out of what they work and work and work for. Everyone is happy.

[WB Mom]

The last schooling show I went to the management set up a course specifically for my horse. I was thrilled and it helped him a lot. You can't get much more accomodating than that. You can be sure I will try my best to frequent shows held by them again!

[meupatdoes]

Obviously, you don't take small children to these shows. These might as well be medal finals for them. They are our next generation of A/AA exhibitors, and most have to start somewhere. IF they have fun, they are much more likely to stay with it, which keeps our sport alive.

Also, these shows are often a part of something that points are accumulated for year-end circuit awards. There is nothing a child loves more than getting a ribbon at the year-end awards ceremony that is as log as they are tall. Is it fair that you and your non-qualifying horse takes these away?

IF you go to a show, respect their rules. Cheaters are NEVER respected. The horse world is so small, people will find out. If you want to go into a class that you don't qualify for, enter as a not-to-be-judged entrant. You get the experience. Your horse show karma is intact. Small children aren't cheated out of what they work and work and work for. Everyone is happy.


"Is it fair that me and my non-qualifying horse takes these away."

OMFG DID EVERYONE LEAVE THEIR READING GLASSES IN THE BATHROOM THIS MORNING?


*head desk*
*head deak*
*head desk*

[Molly99]

FYI - at a USEF show you cannot show HC in a hunter class.

I have seen plenty of schooling shows allow it.

Meaupatdoes - I would love to know this schooling show that is so flexible they would change the jumps for one competitor that is judged against others doing a different course. One thing to change it for all the competitors in a class (if they all agree) and another to change it for one.

That is not the type of schooling show I would want to go to.

It is one thing for the show to decide to open the specs up to fill a division (which is what it sounds like happened) and another for an exhibitor to enter ignoring the specs printed in the prize list (which is what it sounds like you believe is acceptable because it is JUST a schooling show).

If we allow people to break rules from the beginning they will never know they need to follow them at USEF shows.

[meupatdoes]

The last schooling show I went to the management set up a course specifically for my horse. I was thrilled and it helped him a lot. You can't get much more accomodating than that. You can be sure I will try my best to frequent shows held by them again!

WB Mom you are a cheater who makes small children cry.

(It takes one to know one, you know.)

[meupatdoes]

FYI - at a USEF show you cannot show HC in a hunter class.

I have seen plenty of schooling shows allow it.

Meaupatdoes - I would love to know this schooling show that is so flexible they would change the jumps for one competitor that is judged against others doing a different course. One thing to change it for all the competitors in a class (if they all agree) and another to change it for one.


Well, put your reading glasses back on and read this part:

If anybody, regardless of "pull" had showed up and asked nicely if that jumped could be scooched away from the sunspot a little, they would happily accommodate. And the other four people in the division would not be sitting around at the ingate muttering about how that person is such a cheater.

They would simply have just as happily jumped the course with the jump scooched away from the sun spot, like sportsmen, so that an additional person could participate in the class can have a good time and feel comfortable.

Cut throats, the lot of us.

[foursocks]

I love it when schooling shows are flexible and accommodating- that is what makes them a fun, positive experience. They are schooling shows and although I like going to win, I've also gone simply to school my green jumper. We've done some unorthodox things that we got permission to do because I was going to be unjudged.

At one show the high-sided walkway around the ring, with the little bobbing heads of the kids going along, scared my horse so much I could feel his heart through the saddle. I could not get him down one side of the ring. He simply planted his feet and STARED --> :eek: at the bobbing heads. My trainer talked to the judge and the manager and got us permission for me to walk my horse around in the ring during the next coursewalk. This worked- apparently there was safety in numbers. I went in unjudged the rest of the time and had a very positive experience schooling my horse that day. Nobody cared because they all knew I was not competing against them.

If, at a schooling show, you go in unjudged, OR if you are in a class where the *rest of the competitors* agree that this or that exception can be made- what is the big deal? People are getting frothy about "cheaters" taking ribbons away from the kids- but if the other competitors are adults who have no issues with the exceptions, this isn't a problem, is it? Sheesh.

[Giddy-up]

I showed my then 3 YO in what was called "modified adult hunter". It was 2'6" & the only requirement was you had to be an ammy adult. It was an open free for all division. You could also show (the same horse or another horse) in the AAs or the AOs or whatever your heart desired at the same show.

I started out trotting in & actually did canter around at the end.

At an A show that is the smallest height division I can do (not eligible for any novice, beginner or limit rider stuff). If I want smaller jumps I need to go to the local unrated circuit or schooling shows.

[mvp]

Undo the twisted knickers y'all and try to see the other guy's point. But please don't impute ill-will. Jeez.

This has degenerated into a tempest in a tea-pot-- a few of us apparently comparing cross-rail classes at some very small shows, if not a single one.

So-- it ain't cheating to ask for a course change that affects everyone, or which takes your horse automatically out of the judging. Just turn your number inside out to make it clear to all that you are schooling. Do that for the amount of time you would have spent in the ring had you jumped the normal course.

It really ain't cheating if the asking is done before the class starts. But know that you may someday get the short end of this stick since it means that anyone and everyone can ask for modifications that suits their needs that day. If you want a special course set for you, and the management agrees, then do that promptly at the beginning or the end of the class. Who knows, maybe the judge really, really wanted a potty break just then and you obliged.

I'm not a fan of following rules to the letter where there is no special benefit. But for kids learning to compete and value rules, I think it's worthwhile. For those who would like to be part of the high-point competition for that show or even the year-end award of the little circuit, it's really important to have consistency.

There is a very nice local circuit near me that might be imploding just now, in part because many people (individual competitors and the not-BNT trainers among the BNTs in this pathetically small pond) feel that the whole series run by BNTs is now being modified at will to suit their cllents. Of course this is their prerogative, but would-be competitors do vote against perceived capriciousness with their feet and wallets.

[dainty do]

I may be mis-interpreting, but I think the OP would like to take her horse to some schooling shows. The problem is that her current trainer will be at the A shows and will not be available to help her at the low level shows.

My suggesting would be to attend a schooling show or two without your horse, and try to find a "catch" trainer who is willing to help you around the cross-rail type course. The quality of instruction may be different than what you are used to, so that is why I suggest watching the other trainers first and picking one that understands your goals.

I hope your current trainer would understand your situation. She shouldn't mind that you are seeking additional help since she will not be available.

[CBoylen]

I am an amateur who has shown in the A/A's. I breed my own horses and want to bring my first one along (with trainer guidance) mostly by myself.
I am at least a year away from the 2'6 with the four year olds and much longer than that with the three year old. I need a crossrails class or at best a 2'3 class where I can trot in /canter out and simple change. I guess what I am looking for is what people do with their really green horses. This is going to be an ongoing problem as I breed babies.

I'm an amateur, and I usually have a homebred coming along or something around 4 that I'm making up. I also show others in the a/o at the same time, which means most places I can't show the green ones in an adult division. I've always done my young ones in the baby greens or the pregreens during the week, and they generally get what they deserve. There isn't discrimination for being an amateur that I've noticed. My last young one is quite nice and regularly beat my trainer's other horses in the pregreen division, as long as I didn't screw up ;). Also, no one is watching. All those professionals you see are worried about their own horses and their own businesses during the days that they are showing. The amateurs are the ones that watch and critique their competitors, so if you are intimidated by spectators, those are the divisions to worry about.

However, and I know everyone has their own program, I don't think I've ever shown a horse below 2'6". I really think if they're ready to jump a course, they're ready to jump 2'6". It's perfectly trotable if you get into trouble. Smaller jumps don't teach the horse anything good, in my opinion, and, as you've noticed, are generally not available at the bigger shows. For something that's not ready to do the 2'6" classes, I'd either leave it home, or take it and do Tuesday warmups instead of actually showing.

[Queen Latisha]

Why not do the warm ups for now on the young one?
It's a great way to give the horse show experience, without worrying about the competition.
I did this last year with my four year old and it worked out well.
This year he will be in the show ring competing. I'm not looking to win, just to get around with as little "oops" moments as I can.:D

[gottagrey]

I'm baffled and confused by post - title has nothing to do w/ OP's dilema as far as I can tell and seems to me she and horse are not ready to show yet - so leave the horse at home; train and school at home. I'm assuming you have decent jumps to school - SAVE YOUR MONEY.. until horse is ready to jump around the ring at a hopefully consistent pace and rhythm... yes there are going to be green horse issues -

I would also suggest seeing about some schooling shows - if OP's trainer is A only then see if there is another trainer she could refer you to for unrated shows (a good trainer will do this for you, if not they are not looking out for your and ulimately their best interest)

[WB Mom]

Well, I wouldn't consider myself a cheater, since my horse was the only horse in the class, and it was the last division of the day. They modified the course to help him at the level he is presently at. They did not have to, but did it out of the goodness of their hearts. Sorry if there was some confusion on this from my earlier post.

[Hunter Mom]

Well, I wouldn't consider myself a cheater, since my horse was the only horse in the class, and it was the last division of the day. They modified the course to help him at the level he is presently at. They did not have to, but did it out of the goodness of their hearts. Sorry if there was some confusion on this from my earlier post.


Your post wasn't the one I was referring to. It was the one who said they'd knows someone who taken their horse into a division which they were obviously over-qualified for. My apologies if I misread the other post, though.

[LetsChat]

Basically it comes down to this. This time of the year our barn is at only the A shows. I can't expect the trainer to drop her A clients, of which I am one, so I am trying to fit in and make this work without being a problem. I guess the question is why there is no exception for people showing three and four year olds in lower divisions, even if it is just for the experience. And personally, I did the low's and a/a's last year and I was intimidated beyond all get up in the lows by the trainers sitting on the rail waiting for their rounds. I just want to get the horse in the ring, with no expectations. Had I not shown in the 3', I would have options, but this is not about me and what I can do on my other more made horse. This is about my greenies. We say we want to be able to bring horses along in this country but yet we realistically limit the opportunities for them to show with anyone other than professionals.

As for the bring her to the show for the experience, she did the line stuff a little and could care less. Part of this whole thing is to get her in the schooling ring to deal with more traffic, something I normally do not have at home. I guess yes, we could take her in the ring after the show is done, but if it is like HITS this year, it may not be possible.

I guess my point is why we don't have any green as grass type things or exceptions in lower divisions from the rules precluding you from showing if you have shown over a certain height for legitimate greenies? Especially on the weekend.

Well on the weekend may be hard because the A shows are trying to cater to the adults / amateurs but I think that you could find a low hunter, schooling hunter, baby green hunter - 2'6" option at most A shows, they will go Wednesday most likely but if it is that important for the horse to get milage do it, none of those have restrictions of not being able to show another horse in the 3' A/A hunters.

[Trixie]

I think it'd be silly for a rated show to offer an amateur X-rails division or something. It's a rated show, the idea being that you're there to show off and compete against the best.

If your pony needs the experience, just bring it and school. Haul to a few shows and don't show until you're comfortable going around whatever the lowest division is. If you just want to get experience, it doesn't matter who your competitors are.

I really don't think anyone would openly suggest that people cheat.

[LetsChat]

I guess I posted a little too soon as I had only read up to the post I quoted. This is absolutely ridiculous. If your horse is too young, don't show until they are ready. If the pros make you nervous, stay home too. That's the point of competition and as someone else noted the amateur competitors are much more catty and cut throat, the pros are beyond you and expect to ride better than you, why would they even care about your round unless it was SOOO good they were interested in your horse. I just think it is so crazy how everyone is expecting the world to be catered to them. Are you NOT aware of the current state of affairs, that people are scraping just to get by and you think shows should add more divisions?!?!? If you don't have the flexibility to show during the week, if you don't have the network to work with another trainer, if your horse isn't schooled enough to show at the offered heights, if you don't ride well enough to go in a class and feel respectable against the pros, maybe this is devine intervention, maybe you just shouldn't be there.... I honestly can't believe the arguments on here, really, it's worth all this snappy back and forth. Just take both horses and ride the greenie around, have a lesson in the schooling ring with a line of two fences, have your AA show trainer do it in a warm-up. You really can't come up with other options, I am shocked!

[LetsChat]

I think it'd be silly for a rated show to offer an amateur X-rails division or something. It's a rated show, the idea being that you're there to show off and compete against the best.

If your pony needs the experience, just bring it and school. Haul to a few shows and don't show until you're comfortable going around whatever the lowest division is. If you just want to get experience, it doesn't matter who your competitors are.

I really don't think anyone would openly suggest that people cheat.

Unfortunately people cheat at Devon so to think that it is limited to only schooling shows is naive. Cheating happens, I personally don't condone it but that doesn't mean it isn't rampant in the show world.

[meupatdoes]

Your post wasn't the one I was referring to. It was the one who said they'd knows someone who taken their horse into a division which they were obviously over-qualified for. My apologies if I misread the other post, though.

If you are referring to me, and my posts in which I detailed getting beat by a technically 'over qualified' horse, then perhaps you should read the rest of my posts here where all four people in the class were adults who didn't have a problem with it, and it no one had any issues with the schooling show to accommodating an additional person, all in good sportsmanly fun.

No small children were deprived of ribbons or treasured year end awards in the riding-around of that Beginner Hunter class. No small children were even IN that class.

The example was posted about to show that schooling shows can be treated flexibly by *both* management *and* the other competitors, to make a welcoming environment for all.

[RugBug]

I thiiiiiink you are taking the schooling show prize list a leeeeetle too seriously. <snip>

The classes from the videos above were in the Beginner Hunter division at a schooling show. They were "restricted" to horses who had never shown above 2'. So the eligibility depended on the horse's experience, not the riders.

Still, it was a schooling show so no one cares.

Um, as a manager of schooling shows, I can tell you, I care...as many others do as well. I take it seriously when someone violates the rules I've established. I do my best to give everyone an opportunity to show/get mileage: For someone to ignore that really irks me. I can only offer a limited number of classes, so to open them to as many people as possible, I allow 'schooling rounds' at a reduced price. Pros can school the greenies, ammies with too much experience can school their young horses, etc. Sure, you're not eligible for a ribbon, but what does a $2 schooling show ribbon mean to a pro or seasoned ammie? They understand it's about the mileage and not the ribbon. We've been doing this for about 4 years now and it's worked out extremely well. I've had very few people feel the need to ignore my rules and show anyway because no one cares.

[Trixie]

They understand it's about the mileage and not the ribbon.

Speak for yourself. For us, it's all about the pictures!!! :winkgrin:

[meupatdoes]

Um, as a manager of schooling shows, I can tell you, I care...as many others do as well. I take it seriously when someone violates the rules I've established. I do my best to give everyone an opportunity to show/get mileage: For someone to ignore that really irks me. I can only offer a limited number of classes, so to open them to as many people as possible, I allow 'schooling rounds' at a reduced price. Pros can school the greenies, ammies with too much experience can school their young horses, etc. Sure, you're not eligible for a ribbon, but what does a $2 schooling show ribbon mean to a pro or seasoned ammie? They understand it's about the mileage and not the ribbon. We've been doing this for about 4 years now and it's worked out extremely well. I've had very few people feel the need to ignore my rules and show anyway because no one cares.

So, did you read the rest of the thread too?

Or just that one quote?

Hopefully for the last and final time:

The "who" who was "not caring" were the horse show management and the other people who technically were qualified in the class but didn't mind others joining in.

Since I appeared to be the only person in the class whose horse *was* 'technically' qualified, I think I get to speak for all of us.

I'm sure I could have stomped my foot and complained to management and ridden around the hack by myself.
I'll keep it in mind as an option for next time.

[RugBug]

Yes, yes Trixie. How could I have forgotten that. :winkgrin: It's all about the pictures! Says she who is eagerly awaiting yesterdays pictures to be posted. Do it now, dagnabbit! ( I even wore a coat...in the JUMPERS...on the off chance a photographer was there. Total picture whore...that would be me).

So, did you read the rest of the thread too?

Or just that one quote?

Hopefully for the last and final time:

The "who" who was "not caring" were the horse show management and the other people who technically were qualified in the class but didn't mind others joining in.

Since I appeared to be the only person in the class whose horse *was* 'technically' qualified, I think I get to speak for all of us.

I'm sure I could have stomped my foot and complained to management and ridden around the hack by myself.
I'll keep it in mind as an option for next time.

meup: I did read the rest of that post and all others on this thread. What I objected too was the attitude behind your post. 'No one cares'. Yes they do. Schooling show rules aren 'guidelines.' No they're not. Mine are hard and fast. Which is why I designed so much flexibility into them.

Now, I do give consideration to people who are schooling upon request. An extra schooling round at a certain height if a competition round was BAAAAAD. (although no one is allowed to school first and then compete in the same class). If you're competing, you're competing and it is what it is.

In the specific instance of people to fill a class that won't run: I usually try to drum up some 'company' for the entered person and run it as a schooling class....or I offer then the next hack/flat class as a schooling option. Again, my rules have a lot of flexibility built in to them.

[superpony123]

depending on where you are, you may or may not have a lot of options as far as divisions. here in zone 2 we have every division you could imagine. at our big week long shows there;s always tons of different unrated lower hunter and eq divisions, some which are common (think baby greens, maiden eq, beginner hunter, etc) and then some that the shows will make up on their own but are still of the same idea (low fences, use as a warmup or for greenies, etc).

dont let the pros intimidate you--remember, youve got a young horse. you should be going to give them the experience, not to collect ribbons :yes: just try your best to lay down a confidence-building trip for your horse, because that's really what matters.