Inside Eye/Bend I Did In Lesson (Elaboration Please)

[309016]

When I was in my lesson last night, which btw was my best lesson I have had in forever, my trainer kept telling me the obvious inside leg outside rein, but this time she added something different into the mix. She wanted me while doing inside leg outside rein to keep an inside eye/bend on him (kind of like I was using both sides of my body independently of each other, or at least that’s what it felt like to me).

When I did this my horse instantly, after fussing a couple of times, because I had never asked him to do this before, lifted and rounded his outline ALOT! His canter was so light and airy and I could really feel his back and butt working underneath him, not "super" GP collection on his rear, but it was definitely there more than normal. He felt like I was riding a grand prix jumper and he is a hunter, lol :eek:. His trot was also lighter, and his walk alot more marchy and energetic, his stretches were even improved. I even got to sit his trot :D, something I was never able to do until that night!

I forgot to ask her this question: what are the mechanics for the inside eye/bend and lightness of the horse that I was doing/felt? I was amazed at the difference it made, and was hoping someone could explain to me what happened.

Thanks :)

[slc2]

"to keep an inside eye/bend on him (kind of like I was using both sides of my body independently of each other"

???? You would have to explain this more. This just sounds like how one bends normally, all the time, on any circle, corner, curving line.

"inside eye/bend" if you mean that you bend the horse's neck in an even curve (vs all the bend in one spot of the neck, which happens when the horse is not on the outside rein) so that you can just see the shine of the inside eye, that's a normal amount of bending for a 20 m circle.

Sometimes a slight exaggeration of that bend helps a stiff horse, as long as it is still connected to the outside rein.

[Dan]

Sounds similar to where I am at.

I had problems having real contact with my left outside rein. My trainer had me overbend my horse with the inside rein till he contacted with the outside rein. Now that me and the horse know what if feels like, we do not have to overbend.

Dan

[BaroquePony]

The inside eye/bend (where the rider sees the orbit of the inside eye and the ridge of the nostril of the nose) ...

Basically it is a shoulder-fore.

Just like people, the horse is slightly crooked by nature, being either right handed (hooved) or left handed (hooved).

Because of that, most horses travel slightly crooked even though it doesn't look that way in a horse that is basically "well schooled on the flat". However, the correct classical dressage definition of a horse that is moving straight is "the spine is parallel to the track of the movement" (whether moving forward on a straight line, or on the circle, or whatever). Looking down from the top... the spine of the horse must be evenly bent from poll to tail.

To teach the horse to go truly straight forward (not just basically with-a-prayer straight forward), the rider must teach the horse to move correctly on the cirlce first.

The rider must teach the horse to relax and flex laterally (side to side) in response to the rider's aids.

The easiest way to do this is to keep the horse slightly bent to the inside at all times. Hence the eye/bend or shoulder-fore.

Because the shoulders of the horse are narrower than the haunches, the hind hoofprints do not actually travel in same exact track as the front hoofprints (not actually in the hoofprints themselves, but in the 'tracks' created by them); the hind tracks are slighlty to the outside (looking dwon from the top or the sky) of the front tracks. So the "two-track movements" really are two extremely wide tracks that have an overlap of hoofprint area (so the tracks are maybe one and three quarters hoofprints wide).

The eye/bend brings the shoulder in to where the inside hind tracks are actually now landing in the inside front track. So now you have a two and a half track movement.

The benefit of doing this is that the horse is now in a state of very slight shoulder-in and the spine is slighlty flexed to the inside ... the horse must reach under more with the inside hind leg in order to balance more easily and carry itself with a slight bend. It also frees up the outside hind leg and the outside shoulder to move more easily. Because the spine of the horse is bent slightly, it is far more difficult for the horse to fall into any resistance ... the rider can feel any tension (hopefully) and flex the horse very lightly and ride through the tension much more easily.

The rider is in a position to give a little inside rein and drive the horse forward, or ask a little with the inside rein and drive the horse forward. The rider can give and take with tiny rein aids (small vibrations) and keep the spine of the horse in a constant state of light flexion. This does not allow for resistance (stiffness) to creep back into the equation. This keeps the spine of the horse soft and flowing.

One thing ... when you ask for the eye/bend, make sure the ears of the horse are even ... do not allow for the head to tilt with the inside ear being lower than the outside ear... this allows the outside hind leg to not really reach up under the horse and the movement will loose the proper enagement of both hinds legs.

[Ambrey]

Were you bending his body (shoulder fore) or bending his poll?

Jane Savoie teaches a suppling exercise she calls "+7 +1" that involves a lot of poll suppling, but I can't tell whether you're doing that or going in standard "first position" with the inside front and hind on the same track.

[Dune]

The inside eye/bend (where the rider sees the orbit of the inside eye and the ridge of the nostril of the nose) ...

Basically it is a shoulder-fore.

.


Not necessarily.:no:

[BaroquePony]

I agree that lateral flexion of the poll does not necessarily translate to the shoulder-fore, however, that is basically where it is going and I provided the reasoning behind it, more or less.

All increments in between just the lateral flexion at the poll and the shoulder-fore are the beginning of developing the lateral flexion of the spine of the horse, and eventually the truly straight spine of the horse. Yes, there are more exercises that go with all of it, but basically this is dealing with the 'eye/bend'.

[slc2]

bending <> shoulder fore.

[BaroquePony]

Originally posted by slc2:

bending <> shoulder fore.

This is a bit obtuse :yes: What exactly are you saying?

[slc2]

Bending does not equal shoulder fore.

[Dune]

[quote=slc2;3925573] does not equal quote]

/=


(I couldn't get the slash over the equal;)_

[Ambrey]

yeah, usually inequality is /=, but <> works too.

Or you can use the character map: "bend ≠ shoulder fore"

[BaroquePony]

I guess I didn't think about the OP discovering the basic bend, but thought she was talking about bringing the horse's shoulders into the inside track a bit more.

If it is just the 'basic bend', no it is not the shoulder-fore, but the principle is the same.

Would love to hear someone else's description of what they think the OP was discovering.

[merrygoround]

So would a lot of us! :) There is sooo much difference gymnastically between just bending the head, the head and neck, S/F, and S/I, both for the rider, and the horse. ;)

[BaroquePony]

Originally posted by merrygoround:

There is sooo much difference gymnastically between just bending the head, the head and neck, S/F, and S/I, both for the rider, and the horse.

Shoot me now. I see it the other way around. There is so much similarity :yes:

[slc2]

And also, my favorite, != , which is far more visible in a quick read than the slash equal or the <>, which I find particularly too microsofty and not bang-y enough (a ! is referred to as a bang, so != is called 'bang equal', which also is easier to HEAR than not equal).

A bend is not shoulder in or shoulder fore. You're wrong there, Baroque Pony, you can blow your trumpet all you want, it doesn't make them the same thing.

They aren't 'close' or 'one leading to the other' except in the sense that EVERYTHING in dressage is 'close' and 'leading' to something else, but bending and displacing the shoulders off the line of travel are two different things, and the latter is far harder than the former.

Most people can bend and very few can get a correct shoulder in. That is precisely because you can get a bend without having any ability to actually move the horse's shoulders in off the track.

It would be nice if people got their bend by correctly using the outside rein and their other aids so that they could do a shoulder in someday, but fact is, they don't.

"There is sooo much difference gymnastically between just bending the head, the head and neck, S/F, and S/I, both for the rider, and the horse"

Not really. They aren't the same thing, but one hopes that the easier bending is done properly and allows the person to some day do a correct shoulder fore, shoulder in.