Ultimate Hunter Pedigree

[HilaryHrsRdr]

I am on the hunt for a hunter broodmare. What would be a good pedigree to look for? What are some of the top hunter stallions right now? I would want the broodmare to be mostly if not all warmblood.

[vineyridge]

Of course I'm a TB lover, but are you looking for hunters that perform in hand or in the ring?

Because you're looking for a broodmare, you would be looking at HER performance and the actual performance of any foals, as well as her pedigree.

Here is the 2007 USEF list of leading hunter sires, not hunter breeding sires:
http://www.usef.org/documents/points/Hunter2.pdf

Here is 2008.
http://www.usef.org/documents/points/2008/LeadingSires/Hunter.pdf

I think I'd try for an All the Gold mare out of an Alla Czar mare. :) I love Zarr also.

[lauriep]

Of course I'm a TB lover, but are you looking for hunters that perform in hand or in the ring?

Because you're looking for a broodmare, you would be looking at HER performance and the actual performance of any foals, as well as her pedigree.

Here is the 2007 USEF list of leading hunter sires, not hunter breeding sires:
http://www.usef.org/documents/points/Hunter2.pdf

Here is 2008.
http://www.usef.org/documents/points/2008/LeadingSires/Hunter.pdf

I think I'd try for an All the Gold mare out of an Alla Czar mare. :) I love Zarr also.

I would hope that NO ONE is breeding only for hunters that "perform in hand." Not that that is even performance. But it is my sincere hope that ALL HB babies continue on to their ultimate goal of becoming successful show hunters. THAT is what it is all for...

[arizonard]

If you do a search there have been some good threads about popular and proven hunter sires. We bought a number of mares to serve as hunter producers over the past year. I found it difficult to find them on the big sites like equine.com and warmbloods-for-sale.com, but maybe you will have better luck. We ended up deciding what bloodlines we were interested in (Sir Caletto, Alla'Czar, Rio Grande, Corland, Cassini, Don Alfredo, All the Gold, etc.) and searching from there. I contacted breeders who had these lines and asked them if they were interested in a sale. Never hurts to ask!

Good luck in your search. You should be able to find lots of info about hunter stallions on past threads. I second having a good look at the USEF list and looking at RESULTS!

[MagicRoseFarm]

Not sure what its worth, but roughly 10% of the top 200 sires of Hunter performance horses ( 3'6" and up) for the last 5 years carry Absatz blood. This line has been so prolific that even Europe recognizes the influence of this blood for US hunters.

a few names ... As Always, Westporte, Shine, Ruxton......

[KBEquine]

I would hope that NO ONE is breeding only for hunters that "perform in hand." Not that that is even performance. But it is my sincere hope that ALL HB babies continue on to their ultimate goal of becoming successful show hunters. THAT is what it is all for...

Lauriep, I wholeheartedly agree.

Sadly, in the TB world, there is a huge difference in breeding a horse that will sell at a profit in the sales ring & one that will race well - known as breed-to-sell vs. breed-to-race. They should be the same thing, but are not. Like in the QH world, where the halter class was intended to show the horses who performed well, so you could see the conformation that allowed the horse to perform well. Now most halter horses are never ridden.

In both cases, form no longer follows function.

Hopefully without putting words in vineyridge's mouth, I'd have to say she's just hoping the hunter breeders aren't going down that same road.

Vineyridge - thanks for finding those lists. Among other things, now I know where our new-to-us stallion ranked last year!

[vineyridge]

KBEquine has nailed my thinking. One reason I like Alla Czar and All The Gold so much is that their babies have excelled both in hand and later in performance for years.

[Dinah-do]

What is the criteria for being on the usef hunter sire list?There are many sires that I would expect to see and dont.

[Kinsella]

My perfect hunter pedigree would be either All The Gold over Absolut' or Absolut' over All The Gold.... Same reasons as vineyridge - they have done well in hand and gone on to have good careers performance-wise. I do think it's a shame that Wedgewood died before he had a chance to really make it as a sire - I'd love to have a Wedgewood/Absolut' mare!

[vineyridge]

The exhibitors have to put the breeding on their show entry forms and make sure their horses are up to date with their USEF registrations. Then the shows have to send in their results in a form that has pedigree/breeding information.

At least that's how I understand things. If the exhibitors change a horse's name or number, the breeding info can get lost.

Long time complaint on this board.

[PineTreeFarm]

The exhibitors have to put the breeding on their show entry forms and make sure their horses are up to date with their USEF registrations. Then the shows have to send in their results in a form that has pedigree/breeding information.

At least that's how I understand things. If the exhibitors change a horse's name or number, the breeding info can get lost.

Long time complaint on this board.

No. Neither the USEF standard results form nor the Electronic file layout for H/J competitions contain pedigree info.
The standard entry blank does not contain pedigree info.

The horse winning the points has to be USEF recorded. Pedigree info has to be on the USEF recording file ( Horse ID #s or the new USHJA Horse ID do not count for points).
USEF has to have the stallion set up on their files, recorded and the linking between stallion and offspring has to be correct.
The division the offspring is showing in has to be a USEF National or Zone division.
Points are determined by the point scale of the divisions the offspring show in. ( A, B ,C )
And everybody needs to be a USEF member.

One of the commom problems is that the sire name is spelled incorrectly on the USEF recording form or is missing.
Or the name changes ( see the H/J forum for 8 zilllion name my horse threads )
Lots can go wrong and it often does.

[Dinah-do]

in 2008 I did not see All The Gold or any of the above mentiomed horses . Did I miss them?

[Kinsella]

All The Gold and Absolut' were both very old and very lightly bred the past few years. Wedgewood died years ago.

[allanglos]

I am on the hunt for a hunter broodmare. What would be a good pedigree to look for? What are some of the top hunter stallions right now? I would want the broodmare to be mostly if not all warmblood.

Too bad you aren't looking at TBs, and too bad I just sold an outstanding Hunter mare. I think a TB mare bred for the showring instead of racing is the best cross for a WB stallion.

This mare is by Bit Of Class and out of a Roman bred mare.

[grayfox]

There are lot's of nice hunter broodmares. Unfortunately I don't think looking on the USEF lists are the best place to find one. I would look at the individual first, a mare that moves great, has beautiful conformtion and a pretty jump. It's not hard to buy a hunter mare that's proven in the breeding shed. There are too many nice pedigrees to list.

[diva4ever]

When looking at stallions don't forget out Ironman or Ironrule. Ironman was #1 in the country in hunter breeding in 2007. His children are starting to show in the hunter classes...his son Ironstar was Champion in his first show with his amateur owner. They have great temperment and Ironman passes on his great conformation that make them winners in the hunter breeding with a love of jumping. Ironman crosses great with any mare, from TBs to Arabians and all different variations of warmbloods. He is definetly an improvement sire and has proven it many times over. His son, Ironrule, was approved BWP and RPSI last year (he was given one of the highest jumping scores ever in BWP) and the judges loved him. He doesn't have any offspring yet as this is his introductory year. He is out of a TB mare so he definetly passes on the best of both worlds. He will also be a great improvement sire as his TB side will lighten some of the heavier warmbloods. He, himself, was reserve champion in USEF hunter breeding 3 y.o. last year. He is currently being broke to ride and is incredibly easy to train...the first time he was ridden loose around the ring was a rainy, windy night and he didn't flinch once. He's been ridden next to other horses (I even got to play "horse show" with him when I was riding my horse in the ring) and he performed like a star. They took him to St. Louis for exposure, his first week long outing, and I heard he was perfect the entire time, including getting rides in the warm up ring next to mares. He knows his job and he loves it! He'll probably be started in hunters then eventually progress to jumpers because of his scope and power - I've seen him jump the top of standards and it gives me chills as I realize I'm probably looking at a young Ironman (who I would've loved to see go back in the day). If you're looking at the perfect hunter sire, you can't go wrong with these two!

[Mozart]

Not sure what its worth, but roughly 10% of the top 200 sires of Hunter performance horses ( 3'6" and up) for the last 5 years carry Absatz blood. This line has been so prolific that even Europe recognizes the influence of this blood for US hunters.

a few names ... As Always, Westporte, Shine, Ruxton......

How far back in the pedigree do you think this would be of influence? A couple of years ago I got a very huntery colt out of a very decidedly non huntery mare. Checked stallion's pedigree....Absatz four generations back! I thought that was kind of interesting.

[MagicRoseFarm]

I cannot speak for the influence of Absatz on some, but he has proven very prolific in the lines I am familiar with, even three and four generations back. His influence is easily visible and I feel he contributes a great deal to type, jump and movement.

We are line breeding this blood, through Abundance, who was very much a mirror of his sire. Our offspring with 12% to 25% Absatz blood are typey and extremely fancy for the hunters, in both movement and jump.

Another example with repeated Absatz blood is the stallion Westporte with 14%

[not again]

Here is our upcoming contribution to consolidating the Abundance (by Absatz)line:
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/dbtestmating.php?&sireid=10451786&damid=10451727
Since Again and Again is the full brother to Ruxton, and Avebury has incredible jumping talent and hunter style we are very hopeful about the upcoming foal this spring.;) Plus I am excited to have the "D" and "G" influence repeated over top of Alydar xx as well.

[monami]

MagicRoseFarm - My partner is always saying the same about Absatz! We seem to love everything we see with a lot of Absatz in the pedigree. One of our favorite foals, who is now a 3 year old and still with us, is by Andric who is by Absatz, we like her so much that we are going to use him again this year as he is 28!

We also seem to always like Pik Bube/Donerhall's

[ljshorses]

Anahltiner E (Absatz blood close) is AHS and has produced both hunters and dressage. My mare by him will produce very huntery babies when bred to hunter type stallions but also had a very nice dressage foal by Rousseau. Rousseau definitely stamps his offspring for dressage. My mare by Anhaltiner E has a beautiful free shoulder, powerful hindend and great jump. I am breeding her to Sir Wanabi this year for a hunter baby.

Many "dressage" breds can do hunters if they have a somewhat flatter knee movement and lower head set (neck usually ties in lower than ideal upper level dressage horse) and of course a calm temperament. Since I saw this in my mare I have changed my breeding focus for her. Absatz definitely shows in her. Here is a picture, typical confo too for Absatz and she's big 16.3+h. So yea, I agree look for Absatz if possible in family tree.

[monami]

I have seen several by Anahltiner E that have been drool worthy!! They usually move super!

[MagicRoseFarm]

Here is our upcoming contribution to consolidating the Abundance (by Absatz)line:
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/dbtestmating.php?&sireid=10451786&damid=10451727
Since Again and Again is the full brother to Ruxton, and Avebury has incredible jumping talent and hunter style we are very hopeful about the upcoming foal this spring.;) Plus I am excited to have the "D" and "G" influence repeated over top of Alydar xx as well.


I cannot wait to see this baby! here are three from different mares (half sisters) that have different influences from the D and G lines as well.

http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?z=jujmsm&d=beste+glow

http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?d=beste+gift

http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=10511167

[goodmorning]

I must also agree with the thought that you are better off with a TB or high % TB mare crossed with some of the names listed here. Nothing nicer than a classic TB mare...and in a mare, I'm looking for a type rather than a breed. And in general, at least for the hunters, you have added versatality with the xx blood that you may not get with some of the WB blood....I've yet to ride a TB who doesn't have the step when going 'like a hunter' and I can't say the same thing for all WB's. But to each his own :yes:

[not again]

The Paarden Fokken database conveniently lists Avebury WF as 57.08% ox/xx and Amelia WF as 78.12% ox/xx. So our resulting foal will fall at about 68% which should be very nice! Absatz provides enough heat for the right amount of reactivity and everyone has a lovely canter and free shoulder over fences so, yes, we are excited! Of course the only name I could think of so far is Ave' Maria--bummer for a colt, and probably not very politically correct anyway.;)

[not again]

Magic Rose--those are awesome crosses. I was chatting with Dianna Rankin the other day and she said one of her college students did very well hunters and jumpers with a Donnerhall son. Not often mentioned outside dressage circles, but she said he really is cleaning up!

[horsechica58]

I'd add Cunningham to the list :)

Very sweet boy too!

[Mallrat7777]

I ran across one filly that is Popeye K x Alla C'zar. Im not much of a hunter guru but that sounds pretty good to me.......

[hunterjumper22]

I am figuring you only want a WB, but my Indian Artifacts mare is very hunter type. she is 3/4 TB. She is not used in AQHA events. She will be bred to a Hanoverian this year for hunter/jumper foal.

[not again]

Love Indian Artifacts! His son Indian Artbeat is really nice too! (He is Mr. March on our AWR stallion calender--it has great photos of him over fences and lots of baby pictures too!)

[vineyridge]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, because I certainly don't want to pass on incorrect information. I *think* I read somewhere in an article discussing this winter's CEM outbreak--and it was a very large outbreak--that Indian Artifacts is one of the affected stallions. His name stuck because I know he is used so much in Appendix breeding, and I *think* I read about the outbreak in either the AQHA Journal or America's Horse.

[MagicRoseFarm]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, because I certainly don't want to pass on incorrect information. I *think* I read somewhere in an article discussing this winter's CEM outbreak--and it was a very large outbreak--that Indian Artifacts is one of the affected stallions. His name stuck because I know he is used so much in Appendix breeding, and I *think* I read about the outbreak in either the AQHA Journal or America's Horse.

All involved with the CEM outbreak are cooperating to their best. I think speaking directly with the stallion owners or the originating farm will provide the facts as all involved are doing their best to eradicate the outbreak. I am sure that by now, these stallions all have a clean bill of health.

[not again]

Viney, you should enjoy this pedigree:
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/indian+artbeat

[vineyridge]

According to the DeGraff website as of March 2nd, 2009, Indian Artifacts cultured positive, was treated, and is expected to clear for breeding today.