Need a T'bred expert please!!!

[acottongim]

Posting for a friend. They are curious about this mare's pedigree. She is older, and her dam/sire lines are WAY older so neither one of us are as familiar with this pedigree for sport horses. Anyone care to comment on the good, the bad, the ugly on this pedigree? TIA. If anyone knows anything about the mare herself that would be cool and appreciated also. :)

[camohn]

Posting for a friend. They are curious about this mare's pedigree. She is older, and her dam/sire lines are WAY older so neither one of us are as familiar with this pedigree for sport horses. Anyone care to comment on the good, the bad, the ugly on this pedigree? TIA. If anyone knows anything about the mare herself that would be cool and appreciated also. :)

What mare? No name pedigree posted........

[acottongim]

What mare? No name pedigree posted........

ACK! I'm so sorry - blonde moment!!!!!! :lol:

http://www.pedigreequery.com/mandy+jane

What you couldn't read my mind??? :lol:

[PineTreeFarm]

You don't often see Stefan the Great only 5 back.
But way cool to see Roi Herode that close.

Lots of intersting stuff !!

Where's Viney ?

[acottongim]

I know we were kind of amazed - I mean you go from 1978 when she was born to the turn of the century in just 5 generations - heck you are at 1920's in 3 generations.... Lots of old sires/dams being bred at that time!

[vineyridge]

OMGiH!!!

She's got Kiev!!! On the first page, no less! She's got Beau Pere as ggrandsire tail male! You don't often see linebreeding to Blue Larkspur on the first page these days, or Sweep.

She's a living dinosaur. :)

Was her 2001 Red Fox Farm colt a palomino? Since the JC has him as a Chestnut, it's likely.

[spacely]

Was her 2001 Red Fox Farm colt a palomino?

He is. There is a picture of him on the page below. Scroll down.

http://www.cestlaviefarm.com/horsessold.html

[vineyridge]

Kiev's daughter, Dasaki, was used in the same breeding programs that produced the Twist lines and produced Kiev's Umber. Very interesting line to have, although the sire, Barred Umber, may have had more influence. Beau Pere was the only son of Son-In-Law that made it to the US after an excursion to Australia. He was a sire on the West Coast, and is lovely in a pedigree. Blue Larkspur's line is dead in direct tail male, but he is a known sire of jumping horses. Sun Teddy is the sireline that produced Damascus, and they jump.

Baroness La Fleche was the daughter of a Hampton son and the very great mare (performance and breeding) La Fleche by Quiver. Ladana's dam is a full sister of Ajax, Teddy's sire. So you have that sex balanced linebreeding on top going for you. Hazel Burke's sire is out of a Hampton mare from one of the best TB ff in existence. There is a portrait of Eternal on TB Heritage here:
http://www.tbheritage.com/Portraits/Eternal.html

You have the Teddy son, Sir Gallahad, who passes on the jump; and you also have Assagai, a son of Spearmint, sire of Plucky Liege, who was the dam of Sir Gallahad.

On the bottom, there is a wonderful mating between Heliopolis, son of Hyperion--used a lot in WB breeding because he goes back to Bayardo, and is thus the same sire line as Beau Pere--and Be Faithful, a mare who is American TB royalty. Pennant is from the same Peter Pan jumping lines as Blue Larkspur and Bimelech (Black Toney). There is a huge amount of Domino on the bottom, which might give pause about inherited propensities to unsoundness. Afternoon is by Prince Palatine, who is in the tail male lines of the Prince Rose boys--Prince Chevalier, Princequillo, and Prince Bio. He was a son of Persimmon, son of St. Simon, and that sire line still lives. Princess Donna's sire is ALSO by Prince Palatine.

[vineyridge]

Starting from the top after looking through Dr. Birdsall--
Navarette was the second damsire of Garham Girl, USET Jumper.
Beau Pere--Another Legend, hunter (2x); Bayside Sam (H); Black Market (Jumper); Cafe Prince (Steeplechaser); Commander Jack (J); Dillon (H); Easy Doc (J); Encore (J); Fiddling Gilder (H); Gabriel (H); Halikalani (H); Henry The Hawk (H); Johnny's Pocket (J); Last Request (H); Loom Ahead (H); Mystic (J); Old Dominion (H); Old English (J); Semi Tough (J); Silver Exchange (J); Singapore (J) (2x); Sombre (J); Step Aside (H); Stoic (J); Sundancer (J); Turn On The Sun (J); Vim (H); Vital Victory (H); White Lightning (J).

Not going to do Son-In-Law. Don't need to.

Lady Lark--Stoic (see above); Y Hugo (J)
Ladana--A State of Mind (H)

Eternal--Balalaika (J); Fearless Padre (J); Loom Ahead ( H); Master William (J); Space Citation (J); Third Man (J); 20th Century (H); Wall Street Trader (H); Wicked City (J)

Hazel Burke--Cap and Gown; Jac Quest; Master William

Heliopolis--A Little Bit (J); Another Brother (J); Another March (H); Benguala (H); Cafe Prince (Steeplechaser); Computer (H); Ever So (H); Hummer (J); Jet Run (J); Kim's Song (H); Lyrical Lou (J); Midnight Hour I (J); Rags (J); Silver Exchange (J); Sungirt (H); The Crimson Tide (J); Third of August (H); Top Bid (Steeplechaser)

Be Faithful was the dam of Lalun, dam of Never Bend. His son, Straight and True won the American Grand National Steeplechase.

Bimelech--Allegro (J); A State of Mind (H); Boyne Valley (H); Everybody's Watching ; Full House (J); Jackson County (J); Port O' Call (H); Riot Free (H); Ruxton (H); Sir Thomson (H); Straight and True (H); Streaking Stephen (H); Y Hugo (J)

La Troienne--Besides the Bimelechs--Cast A Spell (H); Comic Relief (H); Shadow Brook (H); Touch The Sun (H)

Knockaney Bridge--Bold Minstrel (USET Eventer & USET Jumper); Rain Forest (H)

Not going to do Bobby Sweep right now.

Kiev--Clouds (H); Isle of Erin (H); Kiev's Confederate (H); Ksarina (J); Shakespeare (H); Twelfth Night (H); Virgo (H)

Donnacona--Mark of Success (H)

[acottongim]

Thank you, Thank you, thank you Viney - I think you just made my friend's day. That was EXACTLY the type of info that he was looking for. :D

[camohn]

At 31 both she and her pedigree are living dinosaurs!
But yes...way old names in the upfront pedigree. Wow.

[Silly Mommy]

I do have to disagree viney:

Blue Larkspur's line is dead in direct tail male

http://www.pedigreequery.com/jaimes+mandate

If the mare I am waiting on has a colt, it continues. Unless JC starts accepting frozen semen babies;).

[vineyridge]

AND, and this struck me this morning, this mare is TOTALLY Nearco and Native Dancer free!!! The Nearco is a bit more amazing.

Sabra, crossed fingers for a colt here. You should know that. :)

[pony grandma]

Sabra, crossed fingers for a colt here.


At 31 she's still producing? Who's the daddy? How many foals has she produced all total? How have they been bred? What did they do?

[TKR]

Those old bloodlines are so priceless and worth preserving. I lost my '78 foundation mare in December, but I have her last daughter (leased and in foal to Starlight) and a granddaughter and grandson (gelding) as well as a son (gelding) who is my personal horse. My foundation stallion is also a great wealth of old bloodlines, including a double dose of Alibhai, Bull Lea, Mahmoud, etc. He is also free of Nearco and both ND's. Metier was very linebred on the Domino line and even had Swynford, Sir Gallahad (twice), Black Toney, Plucky Liege, Teddy, Blue Larkspur, Sickle, Discovery, Phalaris, Pharamond, Quatre Bras (brother to Sir Gallahad), Knockaney Bridge, Royal Minstrel, Challenger, Balladier and Roman on her 5 generation pedigree (among others). All of her babies were wonderful, so I hope the mare that started this thread has some babies to continue on for her. Huntsman has daughters out there and one (TB) stallion son. It is such a shame we aren't allowed to use frozen on the pure Thoroughbreds to preserve these guys within the breed!
PennyG

[acottongim]

At 31 she's still producing? Who's the daddy? How many foals has she produced all total? How have they been bred? What did they do?

Viney was referring to Sabra (Silly Mommy)'s mare not the mare in question on this thread.

The mare in this thread has unfortunatly passed on, but there are foals of hers that are out there. ;) :cool:

[selah]

AND, and this struck me this morning, this mare is TOTALLY Nearco and Native Dancer free!!! The Nearco is a bit more amazing.

Sabra, crossed fingers for a colt here. You should know that. :)

I know the Native Dancer is just too predominant in today's pedigrees...but what about Nearco? Same reason?

[vineyridge]

Nearco--grandsire tail male of Northern Dancer; as far as sport horses in the US are concerned, sire of Royal Charger (Turn To/ Best Turn & Hail to Reason/Roberto and Halo); sire of Nasrullah. Sire of lots of other sires who don't have the volume of these three.

And going back several generations, both Native Dancer and Nearco stem from Phalaris, as does Buckpasser.