A Stubben, a Passier, and a Kieffer walked into a bar...

[Wayfarer]

I'm in the process of shopping for a dressage saddle. Because my horse is a long way from any diverse stock of saddles, a saddler is shipping me 3 saddles wide enough for my horse, for me to trial and hopefully find one the horse likes as well as I do.

Now I have to pick which 3. I've checked out the saddles on the saddle buck in the store, and narrowed it down to 3-4... they seem very similar. Anyways, I was wondering if anyone had any experience with these saddles

And maybe if you liked any of these, were there any others (not listed here) that you also liked, that I should maybe check out?

They are...

Passier Antares
Stubben Roxane
Kieffer Lech Profi
Kieffer Lusitano

[ThoroughbredFancy]

Three of my favorite brands.

Kieffer, Stubben and Passier is the order in which I prefer them.

I own a kieffer and love it. It's great quality and fits my horse great. I know with some Kieffer's you can get the tree shaped to the horse with their infrared system and all those saddles come with wool flocking I believe so you can't really go wrong there.

Any one of these will last you forever, when first shopping for saddles there were a lot of these three brands floating around used.

[TBrescue]

But I find that the Stubbens fit myself and my TB very well. I did not like the Kieffer Lech, found it was very restricting to my leg with a HUGE block. Just my .02

[fatorangehorse]

the county perfection. I think they are amazing. I have several saddles - but this is by FAR my favorite. Robert Dover is riding in them now.

countysaddlery.com

[Couture TB]

I love my Kieffer. It is the Aachen model though. About 20 years old and still looks like new. Love the seat and the way it puts my leg. I brake out all of my young horses in it as it offers so much nicer balance then either the County or Albion that I ride in.

[Ambrey]

Are you sure it wasn't a barn they walked into? :lol:

[Elegante E]

Just in general. Passier trees can be adjusted by any good saddler. The twists are on the narrow side (but go wide to catch your rear so aren't like a board), the rise to the pommel tend to be gentler. They tend to be more minimalistic with the blocks and I've read they are currently using a synthetic flocking.

[takethestage]

I love my Passier Antares. I don't like deep-seated dressage saddles and I've found that this seat is perfect. It puts my leg in a great position and I can really use my back/seat as I'm riding. I've also popped over some 3'-3'3" fences with it and it wasn't too awful... :D

[Druid Acres]

I ride my draft cross in a Kieffer Lech Profi and I loff it. A couple of things: I do have to pad it up sometimes, depending on my horse's level of fitness, or the cantle is too high. It also has a wide twist which I love but other people hate. The leather is good quality and it's an attractive sadde. I'm very happy with it. Now if I could just keep the barn kitties off of it.

[Blkarab]

I had the Kieffer Lech Profi and ended up trading it in for a Passier Grand Gilbert (which I love).

The problem I found with my Kieffer was that it always threw me more forward and more up onto the pommel of the saddle. I had a hard time keeping a good solid position. I instantly felt more secure and sat more on my seatbones in the Passier.

Really, the best way to determine what saddle is going to be the best fit for you and your horse is to try them out. See if you can have a friend or trainer with you to see how it looks from the ground. Do your legs tend to want to go forwards or backwards? Are you slipping from side to side? Does your horse appear to be more free in the shoulders in one saddle over another? Do you truly feel secure in the saddle?

Take your time and be thorough. Some saddles just fit different body types better. Nothing is worse than investing a couple of thousand dollars in a saddle, only to have to buy another/different one down the road.

Blkarab

[fatorangehorse]

Just asking - someone had mentioned it as a plus. Was curious as to the benefits . . .

[rabicon]

I loveeeeee my Stubben. I have the Scandica though and it fits my wide boy great and myself. Its a really nice saddle with elk hide so it keeps you stuck :winkgrin:

[purplnurpl]

they are all hard.

[Wayfarer]

Thanks everyone for the replies! I'm really excited to pick my three trial saddles and get them back to my pony to try! Already lining up the coach and various vets/friends and saddlefitters for "coffee and a saddle" dates. :P

TBRescue -- really, you found the Lech Profi to have a big block? I wonder if they come in different styles then, as the ones I've seen have next to no block at all. The Lusitano I saw does come with a chunky knee block, though... that's why I wasn't sure about it, although on the buck it seems to miraculously be in a good place I'm not sure that will be true on the horse.

Fatorangehorse -- I've had the County Competition recommended as well. What is it you like about your County? There aren't any around for me to see, but if (heaven forbid) this triple saddle trial is a bust then I think they're next on my list.

Elegante E -- synthetic flocking?! Is that a good thing or a bad thing? I'm trialing (and if that works out, buying) the saddles from a good saddler who can adjust any of them and is sending them out already fitted... but they're a long way from me and while I know the local saddlefitter can do wool flocking adjustments, would synthetic be a problem?

Druid Acres -- Good to hear the Lech Profi is fitting a draft. My mare isn't a draft but she is on the wide side. Is yours a normal or wide tree before adjustments? You say the Lech Profi is wide twist? That's a surprise, I didn't think I liked the wide twist but I liked the Lech Profi... hrm.

[Druid Acres]

My Lech Profi also has NO blocks - that's one of the things I like about it! Mine is a medium tree - my horse is fairly slab-sided for a draft cross and doesn't seem to need a wide. I would ignore info about the "twist" and just go with the saddle you're comfortable in - that's what I did.

[Calhoun]

I've owned the kieffer wein and a stubben VSD, both wore like iron and had good resale value. The kieffer was adjusted several times due to my horse's changing shape as his training increased. I do agree purplnupl, they are hard.

[draftdriver]

Oh, c'm on folks! A Stubben, a Passier, and a Kieffer walked into a bar. The Passier sat down and said: "Make mine a draft, please. I know, a little on the heavy side, but good colour and a substantial head...."

Sorry, folks, my brain just works that way.....

[bort84]

Ooh, what a great thread. I'm looking at a Passier Grand Gilbert and a Kieffer Wein... My trainer has a Kieffer and quite likes it, but I really like the looks of the Passier too.

Passiers have synthetic flocking/padding now... Does that seem strange? They say it wears better and provides a smoother fit next to the horse. I suppose that could be the case now. Anybody have any opinions on that?

Also, has anyone had any experience adjusting the trees on a Passier?

[Alibhai's Alibar]

Oh, c'm on folks! A Stubben, a Passier, and a Kieffer walked into a bar. The Passier sat down and said: "Make mine a draft, please. I know, a little on the heavy side, but good colour and a substantial head...."

Sorry, folks, my brain just works that way.....

The bartender said, "Why the long billet straps?"

PS- I've had the best luck with Stubben fitting me and putting me in the best position- happy saddle shopping!

[TouchstoneAcres]

I like Kieffers but haven't tried the others. Did you give a tracing to the saddler? It is possible you know that none will fit. May as well be sure before shipping.

[Wayfarer]

Thanks again for the ongoing input and saddle reviews. :) I think I've sat in hundreds of saddles in shops by now -- new, used, cheap, exorbitant, fancy, simple -- and I'm very happy with the way my top three picks fit my bum and leg. I still am surprised how two saddles that can look so very much alike (at least to my eye) -- like, a Kieffer Lech DL and a Kieffer Lech Profi -- can feel so very different.

I gave my wishlist to the saddler today and hope they're able to accommodate me on the ones I am hoping to try. I'm hoping at least one of the three fits the horse and feels as "right" on my horse as it did on the buck. It would be nice if it were one of the ones that is on clearance. ;)

Thanks too for all the warnings and advice about saddle fit. All very good advice, I endorse it! ;) Tracings were done professionally and the trial saddles are actually being chosen or adjusted by the saddler based on tracings prior to being sent. There's still minor fittings like flocking and so on that I will have to take into account, and I'll be watching for wither clearance and panel length on her back and shoulder freedom and so on. I'm really hoping one of these three saddles works, it would suck to have to shop around more, though if it happens, it happens.

[Petstorejunkie]

You will have to pry my Passier Antares out of my cold dead hands it's that awesome of a saddle. if you want to really and i mean really ride correctly with no help from pads, blocks, etc. just you, in perfect balance this is the saddle for you.
my close second if you are looking for more seatbelt would be the Keiffer Lusitano. i loff that saddle too.