How to fit a saddle to the RIDER!?? Am I a princess?

[cyndi]

Apparently, when it comes to trying to find a saddle, _I_ have become the hard one to fit..not my horse. And I also discovered I know a heck of a lot more about fitting the saddle to the horse than I do to trying to find one to fit ME.

Background - I have ridden almost my entire life; have been doing dressage for more than 20 years. I've ridden in a wide variety of saddles and NEVER remember having THIS much trouble finding a piece of cowhide that didn't seem lumpy, bumpy or chafe. Forget trying to find the 'miracle' saddle that puts me in that perfect position - I can't even seem to find one that doesn't seem like some sort of torture device. In the past, I spent much more time trying to find something that fit the HORSE.

I have three horses - one is 9 and two are coming 4. In trying to find 'real' saddles for the two youngsters (as opposed to the Wintec I always start the young ones in) I am getting very frustrated -- and poorer - trying to find a saddle for my filly. The colt was able to wear (with some alterations) a saddle I owned for another horse. The two saddles I own and seem to fit me very well are an Albion Legend K2 and an older County WB. The Wintec Pro Dressage I use on the youngsters also is ok, although it does put me with my legs out in front of me slightly more than I'd like.

I have no idea if the above mentioned saddles have narrow twists, medium or wide twists. I also seem to have no idea whether I need a narrow, medium or wide twist.

A well-known saddle rep came to our area and I took my horse and tried out every used saddle they had that would fit me (17.5") and did not find one that didn't bug me.

I got another saddle on ebay on trial, and only had to ride in it for 10 minutes to know it was not the one.

I recently bought a gently used Courbette Charles deKunffy for a song on ebay (so cheap I knew if it did not work I could resell it, probably at a profit) and rode in it yesterday and while it did not IMMEDIATELY scream "NO" at me, today I am slightly chafed in areas you don't want to be chafed in.

Let me add, I am not in a good place for the Great Saddle Search. The nearest tack store is an hour away, in a strip center adjacent to a major freeway. IOW, not a place you can haul your horse and try out saddles. There are no local saddle fitters, and no local reps for big saddle companies.There aren't even any used saddles that might work for me currently on our local dressage GMO classified section.

How do I make this search easier? Can you tell by looking at a saddle what kind of twist it has? If so, how? I have to assume that is my main problem. It also does not help that I am 5 feet tall.

My only other option is to pay a non-compete fee, haul my young girl to a recognized show in April, and try out all the used and consignment saddles that a big traveling tack store will have there then. And that's a crap shoot whether they'll have many that might remotely work for me. And will probably cost me close to $150 for stall, etc.

And let me add, I'm shopping USED because I really can't justify more than
$2K and I'd rather buy a better used than a cheaper new.

Ideas? Tips? Or have I just become the saddle version of 'the princess and the pea?"

[pintopiaffe]

I would start with contacting Lynnda (sp?) at Classic Saddlery in MI. Give her a call. Tell her your woes. She will ask some questions and get you at least a ballpark idea of wide vs. narrow twist and flat vs. slanted pelvic floor.

Then, she has a decent inventory usually of new and used, and can send you a couple to try. Yes, shipping is expensive, but it's very little more to ship two or three rather than one. Take advantage of that.

I'm in the same boat. I never used to have trouble, then had an accident, had like 3 years off, and at my age, you can't DO that. Got back on, and 1/2 of all saddles give me sciatica. It's tough to give a leg aid when you can't feel/move that leg. :dead: Another 1/3 feel ok to ride in, but upon dismounting, the degenerative hip locks up. I go to stand up from a chair, and fall. :dead: Add that to a stupid-wide, Princeness and the Pea for a horse... and it's just not even remotely fun anymore. :no: :cry:

Lynnda will be honest if she can't help you, seems to have no agenda as far as selling you any thing in particular, and often has miraculously cheap demos or trades or used.

I'd start with her anyway.

[FriesianX]

I would second the recommendation, try Lynda at Classic Saddlery or try Trumball Mountain - both have a good inventory of new and used saddles, and knowledgeable reps and generous trial policies.

If the show you mentioned brings in LOTS of used tack, it would be worth it to haul over and try saddles.

We are all built so differently - what works for one person doesn't work for another - the shape of your pelvic floor (and resulting pelvic tilt) needs to be taken into consideration, along with length of thigh, etc. For example - I am a short person (about 5'4") and very narrow - so people immediately assume I want a narrow twist and a short flap. NO - I am horribly uncomfortable in a narrow twist, need thigh support due to a flat pelvic floor (otherwise I chafe, I can relate to that comment) and I have a hugely long upper thigh. Yes, I am a princess to fit too :lol: So, you need to be prepared to answer questions about your build and what saddle have been comfortable for you. And realize what works for your friends may not work for you.

Don't dispair - and with a $2k budget, you are actually in a realistic situation to buy something of good quality (sure, it won't buy you a Hennig or Hermes :lol:).

[atr]

Do you have access to a good saddle fitter? If so explain your issues to them. When I first sat in my beautiful new custom-ordered Trilogy, I wasn't happy, because I am a princess too. Our wonderful saddle fitter played with it until it fit me like a glove, as well as the horse.

[pintopiaffe]

Speaking of which, I've been browsing around since I posted trying to find the info about flat vs. tilted pelvic floor? I cannot, not find it any more. I thought it was Classic Saddlery that had it...

Anyone know where it is found?

[cute_lil_fancy_pants_pony]

Well, from my experience an Albion legend K2 and County warmblood are both wider twist saddles. The DeKunffy saddle is a narrower twist, but it is an awful saddle anyways so I wouldn't rule out narrow twist saddles from that experience. I like narrower twist saddles because your legs hang straighter down.
A lot of people confuse twist and tree so I'll just explain real quick, the tree is the part that fits the horses back, the twist is the part the rider sits on. You can have a narrow twist saddle with a wide tree and visa versa. To give you an idea of what a twist means, a wide twist saddle is like riding a fat pony, or a draft horse bareback, a narrow twist saddle is like riding a high withered TB bareback (but narrow twist saddles really shouldn't be that uncomfortable, I'm just trying to provide imagery). So you can kind of look at the shape of the seat and determine if it is narrower or wider twist.
I am a big believer in narrow twist saddles (well made ones), I think everyone should have them, they make your legs hang better. I know your experiences with the Wintec Pro were not that great, but the Wintec Isabelle is a much better saddle, the stirrup bars are placed further back (further back than any saddle) and it is a medium twist saddle. I am sort of a snob, so I hate the fact that I love my wintec so much, but the Isabelle is a really great saddle, and for your price range I would definately try it. It is way different than the Pro even though it looks the same. I gave a lesson to someone who had just gotten a brazillian (if you know what I mean) and she was telling me she didn't want to do sitting trot and all this stuff, and she got sore from riding in another saddle the day before, but she loved riding in my Isabelle and had no problem. Everyone who has tried it says its the most comfortable saddle ever. ANd you don't have to fight for the right position.

[cyndi]

There really are NO saddle fitters around me. AT all. I rely on Marty from Horse of COurse in OK when he comes to Houston for the HDS shows. He's acytually done a great job fitting horses for me when the HORSE wasn't even there - just from wither/back tracings and pictures! But now that _I_ am the one needing help, don't know.

I suspect I hate narrow twist saddles. The well-known saddles I tried from the traveling fitter all put me in a good position, as in my legs really hung straight down -- but I felt like I was riding on a 2x4!!

I have bought lots of stuff from Classic Saddlery - never knew they had an 'expert' saddle fitter on site.

I would even be happy to buy another County WB or Albion Legend K2, and have Marty fit it to my girl, but I don't think they make the exact same saddles anymore, and trying to find JUST the right model used would be like searching for a needle in a haystack.

I will start by calling Lynda at Classic Saddlery, tho. At least maybe by talking to her I can 'narrow' the search. Between having her fit, and shipping trial saddles, I have already spent close to $400 and I DON'T EVEN HAVE A SADDLE YET! ' :mad:

[anchorsaway]

I had a narrow twist Albion Legend 5000 and depised it, hardcore. It put me in the WORST chair seat.

My Collegiate(the Jessica), however, is a 17.5 seat and I have no clue what twist, I'm going to guess Medium(?). I suppose it could be Narrow as the Albion had a suede seat, lending to a different feel. Anyway. IME, I've been told that narrow twists fit petite people better(I'm 5'6" and right around 110 lbs). I'm not sure if that's true or not.

Even though Collegiate's are considered 'cheap' I absolutely adore mine. It's from an earlier era(when Miller's still owned them) and has the most comfortable saddle I've sat in. I've sat/ridden in an Albion Legend 5000, K2, and a GP K2 along with a County, a Schleese, a Stubben Biomex, a Courbette Bernina(I think...) and I still go back to my good 'ol Jessica!

[pintopiaffe]

Disagree slightly on the terminology above... the twist belongs to the tree and is about how the bars of the seat come together and their angle. The WAIST belongs to the rider/seat. You can have a narrow waist built up on a wide twist in order to accomodate the horse on the bottom and the rider on the top. You cannot get super wide (hoop) trees without wider twists--but some saddlers do build up the waist to help with rider comfort. (Lazer is one, I think Sue Schurer does it... a few others. The look is fairly distinctive. )

Now, on TOP of that is how long the twist is, how shallow (or not) and wide the seat is, and how quickly (or not) the waist rises to the pommel.

[purplnurpl]

Just an after thought.

I bought my 4 year old a saddle. And I just had it sent out to be stretched 2cm. It still needs another cm to get a perfect fit.

Marty at Horse of Course has only caused me and my friend (Kacey's Rider) trouble.

I ordered probably 10 used saddles or more. That is a lot in shipping costs! But I found what I wanted with Ann at EquestrainImports. I rented my current saddle for a few months before biting the bullet.

It is the narrowest twist I could find. (Vega double flap)
Albions are mostly wide twists.

What are you shape stats? Maybe you are shopping with a seat that is too large or too small?

[FriesianX]

As you can see, different saddles fit different people well :winkgrin: One rider points out that everyone should sit in a narrow twist saddle, another points out that smaller people do better in narrow twist. In reality, we are all built differently. Having attended MANY saddle fittings and more than a few trainings on the biomechanics of riders and horses, I have to say, you can NOT look at a person's build and immediately say what will and won't work. For example, on a narrow twist saddle, my legs don't fall straight down, they pinch in - bad, bad, bad for position! On a seat with a high rise in front, I get sore, ouch... You really need to try different saddles and talk to someone who really understands the anatomy and biomechanics of saddle fit.

By the way, I adore the Wintec Isabelle - and have a Bates Isabelle smooth leather (the textured leather felt really slick and icky to me) in my collection. It does NOT fit my stallion well, so I ride in a Custom Advantage on him, but the Isabelle is a nice saddle for many riders. Others hate it. If you get a chance, sit in one, it might be the solution for you, and it might not. The Albion K-2 is a fairly shallow seat model if I remember right, and a medium twist - you might look for a used K-2 or a used SL or Style - I think they are similar saddles. The newer SLK and Ultima's are much deeper in the seat - the rise might bother you (or may not). Albions are not all wide twist - the Original Comfort Albion is WIDE, but they make many medium twist saddles.

Good luck - saddle fitting can be HELL! I went through about 30 different saddles over a few years - and have a pretty good idea of what I like, and what doesn't fit MY type of horse well :lol: I attended every saddle fitting clinic I could find - went to shows and tried everything people had for sale, bought at least 15 saddles on eBay and sold most of them back on eBay :eek: so I can relate to the torture you are going through.

[Carol O]

You could take up western....

[quietann]

I was in the same boat and ended up with a used Albion Style. It was the 23rd saddle I put on my horse! I am also short and short-legged and have Junk in the Trunk; most dressage saddle companies just do not make saddles for people like me. The Style is not perfect but it is comfortable, and I put comfort over "perfect position" because of some old injuries.

I fully expected that the *horse* would be hard to fit -- a short-backed Morgan -- but that was not our problem. Most saddles with a well-sprung tree, in MW size, fit her.

Good luck!

[InsideLeg2OutsideRein]

I'd give the Custom Saddlery ones a try (the Advantage) it runs new 2300 or so (Dover just started selling them as well), but you should be able to get a deal on it.

I opted to get something else and two weeks into it am almost ready to return it and get a Custom. I'm riding in a borrowed one and both my horse and I do much better in it.

[Petstorejunkie]

My first flag was that you are 5ft tall looking at 17.5" saddles. I'm thinking that maybe you are looking at an inappropriate size for your femur length.
Have you been measured? If you need directions on how to do this, please feel free to PM me. I'm not on here enough to catch this thread next time around.

[Sudi's Girl]

Hmmm...It sounds to me like you need to be the one to just sit in a lot of saddles. That show you were talking about - can you just go by yourself (sans horse I mean), and see if they have a way for you to sit in the saddle? Granted, I do realize that they feel a bit different once on the horse, but I feel like this should at least give you an idea of it?

I feel your pain - it took me a LONG time to find a dressage saddle I love, and when I did find it, it felt like HOME. If you could see how small I am, you wouldn't believe I ride in an 18, but that's what my leg conformation requires!

Oh - I'd also try UsedSaddles.Com - Their saddle girl is really knowledgeable too, so she may have some ideas of good saddles to send you!

Good luck!

[Austin Rider]

There are no good saddle fitters in the Houston area?

[asterix]

Just one more little tidbit from my recent saddle search. I found one I really liked but the first time I spent any real time in it (like 40 minutes instead of the 10 min trial while the fitter was there), it was uncomfortable in my, um, seat. I was heartbroken because it was otherwise great for me and horses, fit budget, etc etc. Saddle fitter said, give it a few days, ride in it all week, then tell me what you think.

It got better and better and by the end of the week I was absolutely fine in it. I'm not saying some saddles won't be instant no-gos, but if you have one you like and it seems to chafe at first, ride in it a bit more over several days just to see how that goes.
Good luck!

[purplnurpl]

5' is going to be very hard to fit.
You may have to get a flap custom fit to you. And I agree, a 17.5 with a regular flap length is most likely not going to work.
A 17.5 with a short flap may be along the lines of butt candy though. : )

Depending on what level dressage your trying to reach, sometimes the AP saddles with dressage tendencies (straighter flap) work well for shorter legs. I had a Barnsby Omega that looked a dressage saddle when my shorty friend would ride in it.

[cyndi]

Actually, the 17.5 and the 18 I have (neither with short flaps) work just fine for me.

The 17.5 is an Albion and I ride my third level horse in it. Really, between the albion and the County WB I currently ride in, I do not favor either - they both work equally well for me.

And no, to my knowledge, there are no saddle fitters in the Houston area. Some COME to the area on semi-regular basis, and one comes to all the big shows, but you have to be at the show, or haul to the show. I am not really crazy about hauling my 'hardly been anywhere' coming 4 year old to a show to try saddles. (We have our own place, so she's led quite a sheltered life!) Not sure I will be able to , um, concentrate _fully_ on how the saddle feels, if ya know what I mean. :D

I've ridden in the Courbette CdeK twice now, with better results each time. it does have a shorter flap than either of my other saddles. Puts my leg in way better position than the Wintec I was previously riding her in. Also puts my leg much CLOSER to the horse than the Wintc, so much that I had to punch another hole in my leathers...which made it work better for me. And actually, I think I need to punch ANOTHER hole. I am not really sure this saddle is THE ANSWER, but it puts me in a way better position than the Wintec and if it quits chafing me (it's already gotten better) I can use it until I find an even better solution. The best news? It cost me $300, barely used, including leathers and stirrups!

I am not a saddle snob - I think a good saddle is one that works for you and your horse. IMHO, a lot of the current crop of saddles are $$$$ due to what's in 'fashion' and not because they're so much better made, etc. I like a tree, wool flocking, and decent leather (or even synthetic if it works), and beyond that, I am open to almost any saddle. I _could_ spend $5k on a saddle, but I don't think it's at all necessary, and prefer to spend my money on lessons. :yes:

[purplnurpl]

I'm here to 2nd the motion that we have no saddle fitters around.
They have to fly in.

My friend just had the Stubben guys come in a do a saddle fitting clinic at her boarding facility. They measured her horse then for a new jumping saddle.

I guess just keep your eyes open on the online sites.
Ricks
Trumble
EquestrianImports
The Horse of Course
Pelham
M&K

Sounds like that haul in show is a good bet. :)

[Ambrey]

Can't you go to a tack shop and just sit in 100 saddles and figure out what feels best?

[grayarabs]

Hi Cyndi. For years I rode in a CdeK Courbette "KurFurst" or whatever - I think it was an all purpose - but I loved it. I wanted a dressage saddle - and something comfy and lightweight so I bought a Thorowgood and I love it!!! TG is a synthetic and I cannot imagine riding in any other saddle. Mine is probably almost 15 years old and has held together very well - although I don't do quite as much riding as you do.
Anyway - worth looking into. Oh - I never really liked the newer Wintec's that I tried - really - when I rode in my TG the first time - I could not believe it. I think they are made in England?

[purplnurpl]

Can't you go to a tack shop and just sit in 100 saddles and figure out what feels best?

we are in TX. She could sit in a hundred Western Saddles. lol.
To sit in 100 dressage saddles she would have to buy a plane ticket.

[SaddleFitterVA]

Well, from my experience an Albion legend K2 and County warmblood are both wider twist saddles.
<snip>

I am a big believer in narrow twist saddles (well made ones), I think everyone should have them, they make your legs hang better.

I would classify the Albion Legend K2 narrow to moderate in the twist, and same with the County Warmblood. Both will seem wider in wider tree saddles.

As for being a big believer in a narrow twist saddles and thinking everyone should have them? Do the world a favor and do NOT start selling saddles.

I have a certain seat that works for me, and from years of sitting in saddles and sitting in client owned saddles, I could sit in a saddle FOR someone and tell them whether they'd hate the saddle. I had a couple of clients who loved the exact opposite twist that I ride in, but that does not mean that one is right or wrong.

I no longer sell saddles, but had a great buying experience with Trumball Mtn last year.

[hollyhorse2000]

Sitting in 100 saddles on a fake horse in a tack store really won't help you very much IMHO. I've had a lot of success with a long-distance fitting with Trumbulla Mountain (admittedly not with a dressage saddle.) If you give them what saddles work and what doesn't work, your particular build issues and maybe photos of you sitting in some saddles, they would send you demos that should be in the ballpark for you. (I should add that how the saddle fits the horse will also affect how you feel in a saddle. A too narrow tree for the horse, for example, could dump you back into a chair seat while the same saddle in a correct tree would not.) Just something to think about . . .

[Austin Rider]

Wow, sounds like a good saddle fitter could do well in Houston area, assuming they don't mind driving all over creation!

I too have had recent good experience with Trumbell Mountain. Very helpful over phone & a real pleasure to do business with.

[MyCatRules]

isn't Mike Corcoran in Houston? Not sure if he works with somthing other than his own customs, but worth a phone call?

[cyndi]

Mike is in Dallas - about 5 hours a way by car. It's a big state.;)

And yes, I could sit in 100s, maybe THOUSANDS of westen saddles around here. (Especially with the Rodeo about to start now!) The local english tack shop maybe has two dozen, and no consignment saddles that will remotely work for me at the moment.

Also, I want a used saddle, not new, both from a budget standpoint, and from the fact I can REALLY RIDE in a used saddle to try it out.

Ok, if my Albion and County are both narrower twists, why did I feel like I was sitting on a 2x4 in almost every single Schleese saddle I tried? I assumed they were narrow twist by the way they felt. Could they ALL have been narrow twist? The horse I am shopping for is not difficult to fit - a medium off the rack fits her pretty well, and I can have it tweaked when a saddle fitter comes into town, but she is short backed, so that's the only issue I have to be careful about.

But, again, I ask - can one TELL by LOOKING if a saddle is a narrow, medium or wide twist? And if so, HOW?

[Sabine]

Mike is in Dallas - about 5 hours a way by car. It's a big state.;)

And yes, I could sit in 100s, maybe THOUSANDS of westen saddles around here. (Especially with the Rodeo about to start now!) The local english tack shop maybe has two dozen, and no consignment saddles that will remotely work for me at the moment.

Also, I want a used saddle, not new, both from a budget standpoint, and from the fact I can REALLY RIDE in a used saddle to try it out.

Ok, if my Albion and County are both narrower twists, why did I feel like I was sitting on a 2x4 in almost every single Schleese saddle I tried? I assumed they were narrow twist by the way they felt. Could they ALL have been narrow twist? The horse I am shopping for is not difficult to fit - a medium off the rack fits her pretty well, and I can have it tweaked when a saddle fitter comes into town, but she is short backed, so that's the only issue I have to be careful about.

But, again, I ask - can one TELL by LOOKING if a saddle is a narrow, medium or wide twist? And if so, HOW?

didn't read the thread- so not sure where you are..but
Schleese saddle used to be horribly uncomfortable. If you buy a used one- make sure it's a saddle that is a year old or maybe 18 months- but not much more.
Second- the twist is really the width of the top of the saddle towards the front- the area where your private parts sit on. Most women like narrow twists- because they are built that way..but there are exceptions. Since all dressage saddles are (almost all) black- it's harder to tell visually- but the good measure should be your hand. So find a narrow twist saddle and grab the front- about a half a hand's with behind the cantle and you've got your twist. Find a memorable way to feel out that area- then you can compare it to others...the flatter the wider- the closer your fingers are while grabbing that part of the saddle - the narrower the twist.
The new Schleeses are insanely comfortable to ride in...so if you can find one that 's about 1 year old and used- go for it..

[flshgordon]

Ok, if my Albion and County are both narrower twists, why did I feel like I was sitting on a 2x4 in almost every single Schleese saddle I tried? I assumed they were narrow twist by the way they felt. Could they ALL have been narrow twist? The horse I am shopping for is not difficult to fit - a medium off the rack fits her pretty well, and I can have it tweaked when a saddle fitter comes into town, but she is short backed, so that's the only issue I have to be careful about.

But, again, I ask - can one TELL by LOOKING if a saddle is a narrow, medium or wide twist? And if so, HOW?

Have you tried Fineusedsaddles.com yet? She is local and will bring/ship saddles to you depending on your location (she might meet you halfway if she won't come all the way to you. She has been to our barn MANY times and is very knowledgeable about fit).

As for Schleese.....have had the same issue. Rode in an older Schleese several years ago, briefly for ONE ride....maybe 20 minutes and I think I still have the scars from that saddle! I vowed never to sit in another. However, on my recent search, tried my trainer's JES model and low and behold LOVED it! Fine used saddles brought me several Schleese's to try and the newer ones are by far more comfortable. The Schleese can be custom ordered in any shape/size and with a million different features....wide vs narrow twist. You can tell the difference when putting them side by side looking from the top and the narrowest part of the seat area (where the two sides pinch together). The good thing about Schleese is that they come to Houston a few times per year and have the adjustable tree and will fit any of their saddles to your horse. They do a great job. I did not end up with a Schleese only because they did not have one with the right size flap for me and I was in dire need of a saddle.

[cyndi]

I tried a bunch of Schleese saddles - newer and older - and none were to my liking.

Fineusedsaddles.com is too pricy for me. Even the used ones are beyond what I am willing to pay for a saddle -- around $2K. And currently they don't even have any that are the size/tree I need anyway.

[Jenn2674]

didn't read the thread- so not sure where you are..but
Schleese saddle used to be horribly uncomfortable. If you buy a used one- make sure it's a saddle that is a year old or maybe 18 months- but not much more.
The new Schleeses are insanely comfortable to ride in...so if you can find one that 's about 1 year old and used- go for it..

Classic example of everyone being different. To this day, the most comfortable saddle I have ridden in is a JES Schleese that I bought in 2004, five years ago. Unfortunately, even after repeated fittings and it being bought to fit this particular horse, it did not fit the horse at all and I had to sell it.

[cyndi]

Classic example of everyone being different. To this day, the most comfortable saddle I have ridden in is a JES Schleese that I bought in 2004, five years ago. Unfortunately, even after repeated fittings and it being bought to fit this particular horse, it did not fit the horse at all and I had to sell it.

Yes, we are all different. I tried that one out in two separate rides, even with modifications and it was a definite No Go for me.:D Fit my horse tho. :lol:

[Ambrey]

I find my Schleese Infinity suuuuper comfy, and it is 4-5 years old (on the adaptree though).

The other saddle I found super comfy was the Ovation Klimke, which has a nice wide seat like my Schleese.

[EqTrainer]

If you like the K2 it means, IME, that you like a wider twist and that you tend to sit with your butt behind you, seatbones pointing back. Not to get too personal, but do you have some junk in your trunk? Because that saddle seems to have some room behind where it intends you to sit, for you to park it. Hope you don't think I am trying to be rude. It does make a minor seat correction and for a lot of people who sit that way, brings their seatbones underneath them.

I can ride in that saddle but I have to make major position adjustments to do so. Which bring me to my next question - is your position correct? Are you sitting with your seatbones pointing straight down? Would you be willing to show us a pic? You can chop the head off w/the crop feature ;) Even the right saddle will feel bad if you aren't sitting correctly.

FWIW, IMO the opposite of the K2 is any Prestige.

[AdAblurr02]

Well, after freaky sacral injury (read "busted tailbone") I sat in the proverbial 100 saddles - pain, more pain and OMG how does ANYBODY sit in that?!?!?

Kind tack store lady pointed me at a saddle she apologized for - it was a bit faded (not very black any longer on panels) and it was "not a super popular maker, but of good quality". It was like coming home for me AND for my aching butt. I will never sell my Moritz.
Wish it was wide enough for my big horse - am thinking of trying to have it widened.

[SaddleFitterVA]

Caveat: I quit selling saddles in 2002 or 2003 and quit doing fitting for the general public in 2006, so it is possible that the traditional world of saddles has changed since then.

Interesting generalizations about saddles, preferences and how that person must sit or ride. I cannot ride in a K2, it is hideously narrow IMO with a pommel that rises too quickly for me. Ow ow ow.

Please do tell my riding fortune...I mean style....

I ride in these dressage saddles, depending on the horse:
Albion Original Comfort
Albion Euro Comfort
Albion Euro Legend

Jumping:
Albion Kontrol - too narrow for sitting/flat work, but lovely leg position over fences
Albion CC2
Black Country Quantum X

Other than the fact that I obviously like a wide twist** and a flat (front to back) tree, can you tell me how tall, short, fat or skinny I am? Can you tell me my sex? In my 4 or 5 years of doing saddle fitting, I learned to throw pre-conceived notions out the window. My first starting point was to ask the person what saddle they loved, and then attempt to narrow down the options from that.

If you cannot find a saddle fitter that will come to you, go to one of the big shows where they saddle makers have booths set up. Find a good rep, who knows how to balance the saddle on the fake horse, as if it fit the fake horse, and start sitting in them. Then, start looking for ones that will also fit your horse. The shipping of saddles back and forth adds up really fast, which is why so many people do end up just buying a new saddle in the size they need. That and convenience.

** and in my world, it is not the waist on the rider side, it is the twist. The waist is on the horse side of the saddle

[Spyder]

The way the twist affects you depends on the conformation of your pelvic floor; whether your pelvic floor is arched or not. May be oversimplified, but the way to determine whether you need a wide or narrow twist is this: Sit on a flat seated chair, legs spread and posture as though astride. Now, as if you were checking the clearance of the pommel on the horse's wither, see if and how many fingers you can slide between your crotch and the chair.

If you can slide some fingers in there, you are a candidate for a narrow twist, the theory being that the saddle will offer you some support. If you can't slide your fingers in at all, you are a candidate for a wide twist.

You are in comfort trouble if you need a wide twist but your saddle is narrow because you feel as though you are astride a 2x4. If you need a narrow twist but your saddle has a wide one, you will feel like your thighs are being pulled out of their sockets. Neither condition lends itself to effortless riding.

Now, if your saddle is a little narrow for your comfort, you can actually do something (if you are lucky) to alleviate the narrowness problem. You can stuff some foam or something under the small flaps that cover the stirrup bars. I need a wide twist and that's helped for me. YMMV

[Spyder]

and having to fit saddles got to be painful for me, too. I have 10 rideable horses on my farm who need saddles. And I live 100 miles from the nearest place that has used saddles. I drove there once, came back with 6 saddles paid for on my credit card, and then returned them all. All in all I was out 2 days plus 200 miles worth of gas and wear and tear on the car.

Then there is the po$tage both ways from a reputable place for a trial period. I did that years ago. That got expensive, too. Then I thought I would try again because of all the good things that were said about about Trumbull Mtn. I got a lovely saddle from Trumbull Mtn and it fit my horse like it was custom made for him. However I couldn't wait to get back on the ground and have it on its way back to them. Definitely not their fault. How could they predict *my* conformation?

I began picking up used saddles on eBay. If the saddles worked, I would keep them. If they didn't I would flip them back on eBay. Sometimes I actually made some money, sometimes I didn't but it was ultimately much less expensive than 2x postage.

Look long enough and you can decide whether its a good bet that the tree will fit your horse's curved or flat back based on your knowledge of your horse & his needs, your own experience of the types of saddles or querying the seller. Then determine whether you need a narrow, medium or wide twist. Twists can vary from model to model within manufacturers so when you arrive at a good bet for your horse, then is the time to consider your own fit. Ask the sellers to whether they need a wide or narrow twist and how the saddle fits them, or ask on the boards here or elsewhere how the saddle you are interested in buying fits the rider. That will help determine whether it's a possibility.

I musta gone through 50 saddles that way and got pretty good at predicting whether the fit would be close. And I now have great saddles that fit me and my horses. At least for the moment ...