Stunted growth/underfed?

[JohnDeere]

How long can a horse be underfed/malnorished and reach full growth?

Case: Fred was bought thru auction very hairy. When he came home and the hair was excavated :D we found lots more bones than we should have. ;) At 3 he was 150-200 lbs underweight. I dont know how long he was underfed but hes not as tall as his BIG brother who is close to 17 hands. His feet dont look good but the new growth is nice so probably had been underfed for 1 year or so? Is this going to hurt him much sizewise?

[Ajierene]

I'm sure it will have an effect - how much of one, I cannot guess.

There was a thoroughbred horse at a place I used to board at that was barely 14HH due to malnutrition. She also looked more like a yearling than a three year old when she first got there. She did fill out and even up more with proper food, but never grew and always looked...dainty....like permanent little yearling legs and body...if that makes any sense. I do not know the specifics, other than she was a rescue.

[#1Gunner]

I have a now three year old quarter horse colt that I got as a yearling. He was small, hairy, wormy....probably 150 lbs underweight. His upper respiratory infection took three months of antibiotics to get cleared up. He had lice!

He is now 15'3 at the withers and 16'1 at the hip. Both of his parents are 15'2..... So I guess he isn't stunted in growth.

I think it really depends on the individual. How long were they in this state, their own bodies and it's other troubles...

jane

[pintopiaffe]

It's going to be close... three *seems* to be about the 'cutoff' age IME.

My normal, well fed but-all-related kids don't reach mature height and weight until 6-8. They usually add at least a hand between 3 and 6/7. Then they grow 'out.' That's just their lines, and quite possibly my latitude. (49th parallel. ) I warn buyers of this. I think, really, they don't *believe* me. But the difference between a 6yo and a 9yo of these lines is dramatic.

When you're talking malnutrition, I think you have to know if any of it was en utero... that can affect mature height. Weanling-through-three yo I think they can be skinny and then still reach their genetic potential given the right vits/mins/protein. But somewhere, some vague place between 2 and 4, if they are not given all they need, it DOES affect mature development... unfortunately, I think that really varies from breed-to-breed, and even lines within breeds. I think you're best chance is with LATE maturing lines. CALORIES are not, IME, as important at vits/mins/protein. A skinny youngster with the right NUTRITION can still do fine. It's the lack of minerals and protein (building blocks) which will be more detrimental.

I don't think it affects long term soundness, unless the malnutrition has been severe. I think it can be related in a way to twins. Genetic potential is there, but not realized...

Just my 2cents. We all know what *that* is worth in this economy... ;)

[Equine Studies]

My filly had a very, very bad start to life (legs crooked at birth, dysmature, presented hind legs first and got stuck-had to be pulled and then rescusitated-should have died but was too stubborn) but did OK until about 8 months old when the owners of the farm retired and moved out of country-and to make a really long story short she had a brutal winter where I took her and was really thin at the end and never really improved until I moved her somewhere else in September and she is starting to shoot up and fill out. You can almost watch her grow. She'll be 2 in May and is 15 hands (Dutch x TB). She grew a full hand in 4 months. At one year old she looked like a weanling, and still looks to be playing a bit of catch up compared to the mutant filly who is the same age and twice the size. Keep at it-I'm finally happy with how mine is coming along. She'll likely not hit her potential height because of all the problems but it looks like she'll turn out just fine.

[Pancakes]

Technically, the radius closes at 36 mo (longer for larger WBs I think), so after 3 years, there should be no more growth, period.

If he is over 3, and as long as he gets his nutritional requirements (calories, protein especially) met, he should grow bigger, but not taller.

[pintopiaffe]

Technically, the radius closes at 36 mo (longer for larger WBs I think), so after 3 years, there should be no more growth, period.

If he is over 3, and as long as he gets his nutritional requirements (calories, protein especially) met, he should grow bigger, but not taller.

This just can't be an across the boards statement? Do you have a cite?

Many WB's, draft X's and Arab X's mature MUCH later than 3.

I have in my backyard at least 4 horses who added several inches, if not a hand, after 4.

Of course the maturity/width comes after the height is done. (up first, then out.)

I'm not being snarky, just incredulous due to personal experience. SO MANY WB breeders will agree that growth is not done until much, much later than 3 in many instances...

[Waterwitch]

Technically, the radius closes at 36 mo (longer for larger WBs I think), so after 3 years, there should be no more growth, period.

If he is over 3, and as long as he gets his nutritional requirements (calories, protein especially) met, he should grow bigger, but not taller.

Sorry, but this is simply not correct. Continued growth in the spinous processes can and does contribute significantly to height at the withers for quite some time after the age of 3. Scapula, femur, and vertebral growth plates are all still open at age 3 and in the case of the vertebrae may not close until age 5 or 6 or even later depending on breed.

[EqTrainer]

Obviously Dinky missed the memo because he grew over three inches between 3 and 4 years old. He is still busy growing (as I type!) even more.

He is TB/QH. His mom was 17h, his dad 16h, his grandsire 17h. Dinky himself is 16.1 now.. I think he will go 16.3. And I think it will take him all of his 5 year old year, and perhaps into his 6 year old year, to get there. He is fed very well, so I don't think it is a nutrition issue.. it's a late maturation issue.

I bought a TB from Mapleshade who was 16.1 at 4 year old.. 17h at 6. And our small junior freaked us out by growing another 1/2 inch at 6, he barely carded.

I *wish* horses were done growing at 3, reliably. But they aren't.

[McVillesMom]

It is true that *in general* the growth plate of the distal radius, which contributes the greatest to height, closes at approximately 36 months (this varies between horses, obviously). More proximal growth plates close later, and therefore there is the potential for some growth after this. (This is, I assume, the basis for the "string test".)

I would be worrying mostly about mineral balance. One of the most common treatments for developmental orthopedic diseases (OCD and others) is almost a starvation diet - poor quality hay, no grain, balanced minerals. He may not be supposed to be as big as his big brother, regardless of his diet. Hard to say how much it has really affected him - he may not reach his original potential, but I would guess that it didn't make THAT much difference. JMO :)

[Pancakes]

Sorry, but this is simply not correct. Continued growth in the spinous processes can and does contribute significantly to height at the withers for quite some time after the age of 3. Scapula, femur, and vertebral growth plates are all still open at age 3 and in the case of the vertebrae may not close until age 5 or 6 or even later depending on breed.

I was speaking of long bone growth, which contributes to the majority of the height. If you have a 15h horse with malnutrition at 3 years old, you can't expect him to top out at 16+ hands with better nutrition. Sorry if I wasn't specific, but I am not incorrect about the long bone growth.

[silver2]

I've seen plenty of 15hh 3yos top out over 16hh.

Maybe the long bones contribute the majority of the height if you are considering height along a scale of 0-17hh but, like the heat control on showers, we are only concerned with a small fraction of the entire possible range. And that bit we are concerned with can change quite a bit after 3. Often does in fact.

[Pancakes]

I've seen plenty of 15hh 3yos top out over 16hh.

Maybe the long bones contribute the majority of the height if you are considering height along a scale of 0-17hh but, like the heat control on showers, we are only concerned with a small fraction of the entire possible range. And that bit we are concerned with can change quite a bit after 3. Often does in fact.

After being malnourished up to 3 yrs of age? That is the issue.

[silver2]

Why would being malnourished earlier affect a later growth spurt? surely it would only affect the period of time the horse was actually malnourished. A malnourished youngster may end up shorter than it would have but I would think the effect on growth would occur early on.

[JohnDeere]

So they wont catch up with better feed later on? Tthey just grow what they are supposed to grow when there better fed?

I dont know for how long this guy was underfed. He looks like a 2 year old to me but he may just be delicate. Its the old "owner wasnt available due to illness to check on em" story.

[camohn]

This just can't be an across the boards statement? Do you have a cite?

Many WB's, draft X's and Arab X's mature MUCH later than 3.

I have in my backyard at least 4 horses who added several inches, if not a hand, after 4.

Of course the maturity/width comes after the height is done. (up first, then out.)

I'm not being snarky, just incredulous due to personal experience. SO MANY WB breeders will agree that growth is not done until much, much later than 3 in many instances...

I don't think she is saying growth is done at 3. She is saying growth in the longbones is done at 3. In other words, when the "knees close". Other parts of the body above the knees certainly do continue to grow well past 3. So yes, typically most horses add at least 2 inches after the age of 3 and some more than that. If he was stunted to the age of 3 and the knees have closed he will grow more "on top" and make up *some* height but since the lower leg height is what it is now he probably is not going to reach "full potential" either. How big is he now?

[JohnDeere]

16 ish hh.

[Pancakes]

I don't think she is saying growth is done at 3. She is saying growth in the longbones is done at 3. In other words, when the "knees close". Other parts of the body above the knees certainly do continue to grow well past 3. So yes, typically most horses add at least 2 inches after the age of 3 and some more than that. If he was stunted to the age of 3 and the knees have closed he will grow more "on top" and make up *some* height but since the lower leg height is what it is now he probably is not going to reach "full potential" either. How big is he now?

Yes, this is what I was getting at... remember, I'm talking about a malnourished horse, who now, at 3, is getting proper nutrition. Whatever height he had during the malnourished time due to long bone growth should be finished, or ending, at this point. I did make a comment in my original post that WBs typically take longer to finish long bone growth.

Thank you, Camohn, for better articulating what I was trying to get across!

[camohn]

16 ish hh.

I have to chuckle as I don't consider a 16H 3 YO WB as "stunted". That is still a decent sized horse that will probably make at least 16.2.

[JohnDeere]

Hes nearly 4 BTW not a WB and Im eyeballing the 16 hh. Im hoping for 16.2 at least. Ive owned 1 horse below that and she was broad. This one is delicate.

[merrygoround]

It is true that *in general* the growth plate of the distal radius, which contributes the greatest to height, closes at approximately 36 months (this varies between horses, obviously). More proximal growth plates close later, and therefore there is the potential for some growth after this. (This is, I assume, the basis for the "string test".)

I would be worrying mostly about mineral balance. One of the most common treatments for developmental orthopedic diseases (OCD and others) is almost a starvation diet - poor quality hay, no grain, balanced minerals. He may not be supposed to be as big as his big brother, regardless of his diet. Hard to say how much it has really affected him - he may not reach his original potential, but I would guess that it didn't make THAT much difference. JMO :)

Thank you for saving my fingers!!!!! :)

And EqTrainer, you should know by now that the only time they stop growing by three is when they are rump high and just less tall than you want. :D