Nerve Block and Abcess-update...nasty abcess

[Cheval Gris]

Ok, so my horse has a new mistery lameness, five days standing. Maybe has gotten a little worse, but I only trotted him out 3 of the 5 days so I can't really decide. Ran him up to the vet today, who did a nerve block above heels. No results, still lame. Nerve block at fetlock, no results, still lame. We are giving him a week of bute and sweating, then going from there if no progress with xrays. But, vet mentioned that it is possible to have an abcess that the block didn't penetrate. Is anyone familiar with this? Or is he trying to make me feel better? We can't find anything on exam thats tender/heat/swelling, so I am hoping for a deep bruise or abcess. Can a block "bypass" an abcess? Anyone have experience with this? Any help or suggestions is greatly appreciated.

[spotmenow]

I'm not sure about that, but I once had a vet not use enough block to make the horse come sound, so he continued blocking up the leg, bypassing the problem in the foot...$400 later I had to go to another vet who used enough block and waited a longer period of time. He got a proper diagnosis.

[Tom Stovall]

Painted Hill in gray

Ran him up to the vet today, who did a nerve block above heels. No results, still lame. Nerve block at fetlock, no results, still lame.

If you ever have any doubts, check the block. All it takes is a ballpoint with the pen retracted. Poke the "blocked" area. No response? It's blocked. Response? It ain't.

We are giving him a week of bute and sweating, then going from there if no progress with xrays. But, vet mentioned that it is possible to have an abcess that the block didn't penetrate.

Whoa! Say what?

Is anyone familiar with this? Or is he trying to make me feel better?

I dunno if he's trying to make you feel better or not - but from here, it sounds like he's doing the CYA Watusi.

We can't find anything on exam thats tender/heat/swelling, so I am hoping for a deep bruise or abcess. Can a block "bypass" an abcess?

In most cases, not if the block is correctly done.:(

Anyone have experience with this? Any help or suggestions is greatly appreciated.

After he blocked the digital nerves, did the vet do a ring block below the fetlock before he blocked the palmar nerves?

[Bluey]

Why not x-rays while already there?
That is first here, before blocks, as it is less invasive.

[Cheval Gris]

Ok, so all I know as this is new to me, is that they blocked the heal first. When they did hoof testers before block, he had a somewhat tender spot in one area, but vet didn't feel as though the horse gave enough of a reaction to indicate an abcess, but there definately was a reaction. When that block did nothing (they took a key and poked around coronary band/heels and he definately felt it) they reblocked the area, that didn't change, then moved up around the fetlock. Waited 15 min or so, trotted on lunge, and no change. The vet who did the block is just out of school and senior vet did not watch the block, so it is possible it was done incorrectly. However, he said we can continue up the leg with blocks, or treat with bute for 5 days and watch the progression. So, I said, lets try bute for a couple of days. But, he did say if it does not improve he would be checking for a high suspensory...this has my head spinning, as he is not on stall rest, and vet could not find any tenderness in this area. We just started trying to build more heal on this guy, but i am sketchy to put wedges on a horse without xrays to evaluate horses angles at this point. (wedges were recommended today at next shoeing.)
Saturday he was out schooling xc sound for 3 hours, monday he was lame at trot.

[merrygoround]

Possibly not done incorrectly but still didn't hit the appropriate nerve. I know from experience with my own jaw. :sigh:

It would have helped if the Sr. had come out. Sometimes green practitioners get to looking for zebras, when they hear hooves in the night, when it's just a little old stray pony. :)

A wedgie on the wedges! :) Sounds too much like you're getting a shotgun approach.

[Cheval Gris]

I think I have provided most of the info here. Horse has never been lame/injured. sort of why I prefered taking a conservative approach to start with,(on top of the fact there is no acute incident here unless he did something in the pasture) not wanting to spend 500$ on xray/us only to find in three days an abcess come out. Senior vet did all examining and possible diagnosing. He said possible high suspensory, possible soft tissue bruise, possibly because he has low heals, etc etc. I did leave one thing out. Had him chiro'd for the first time last week, five days before schooling. Could he have a lameness from this? She spent more time on hips and head. I just wonder if its not something really high. Or again, something brewing in the foot. I didn't want to become a member of the mystery lameness club.:no:

[Cheval Gris]

Posted over in horse care too, but figured I would share with my fellow eventers for more input.


Saturday, schooled xc a couple hours, horse sound, no problems. went home sound, had sunday off...went to ride monday, lame. Now five days standing. Maybe has gotten a little worse, but I only trotted him out 3 of the 5 days so I can't really decide. Ran him up to the vet today, who did a nerve block above heels. No results, still lame. Nerve block at fetlock, no results, still lame. We are giving him a week of bute and sweating, then going from there if no progress with xrays. But, vet mentioned that it is possible to have an abcess that the block didn't penetrate. Is anyone familiar with this? Or is he trying to make me feel better? We can't find anything on exam thats tender/heat/swelling, so I am hoping for a deep bruise or abcess. Can a block "bypass" an abcess? Anyone have experience with this?
I think I have provided most of the info here. Horse has never been lame/injured. sort of why I prefered taking a conservative approach to start with,(on top of the fact there is no acute incident here unless he did something in the pasture) not wanting to spend 500$ on xray/us only to find in three days an abcess come out. Vet said possible high suspensory, possible soft tissue bruise, possibly because he has low heals, etc etc. I did leave one thing out. Had him chiro'd for the first time last week, five days before schooling. Could he have a lameness from this? She spent more time on hips and head. I just wonder if its not something really high. Or again, something brewing in the foot. I didn't want to become a member of the mystery lameness club.
Any help or suggestions is greatly appreciated.

[risingstarfarm]

I think I am experiencing the exact same thing right now.

Yearling - had an abscess that came out the sole and we kept him wrapped/booted for about a month. The wrap came off and I didn't realize that there was still a slight opening in the sole. 48hr later - he's three legged lame. Vet comes out and blocks the foot and he's still lame. He presents EXACTLY like he has heel pain. He reacts to palpation on the heel. However, vet is worried that he's unsound after a foot block. I 100% think that he's brewing another abscess out the heel and the block was incomplete. My trainer agrees.

Yearling doesn't flex lame on any joint, doesn't palpate sore (except for the heel) and totally presents an ouchy foot.

Bute doesn't touch it - so I am soaking and applying ichthamol.

Does that help?

[Cheval Gris]

Very inexperienced here with abcesses, been lucky over last 10 years. Would bute help an abcess? He passed all flexion tests. I guess now I am just worried it could be a high suspensory. But again, no tenderness in that area. I am highly suspicious of deep abcess or bruise, but again, not experience much with these. Like I said, he did have one point that was pretty tender with testers before block, but vet didn't think it was enough. Go figure, his first recognized is in three weeks. :mad:

[BumbleBee]

Saturday he was out schooling xc sound for 3 hours, monday he was lame at trot.

Is he fit enough for this? 3 hours is a lot and fatigue definitely increases risk of soft tissue injuries. No I wouldn't be blaming the chiro who worked on him if a week later he was sound schooling xcountry for 3 hours.

My 2cents but I'd be guessing soft tissue if 2 days after a hard school my horse came up lame.

[FLeckenAwesome]

Fingers crossed for you. My horse was lame for 13 days (and counting...though tonight he looked REALLY good!) with a big severe bad bruise that took awhile to realize. He was obviously lame but not three legged and you could sorta find a spot with hoof-testers initially, but later you could definitely feel the spot!

Good luck for your pony!! Hope he feels better soon.

[Weatherford]

Sounds more like a bruise or something than an abcess, per se. I agree with x-rays before blocking. However, usually, an abcess flairs up very quickly (overnight) and makes your horse look like he is going to die - three legged lame.

And bute is the last thing you want to do with an abcess - according to my vets. Since it decreased the inflammation, it hinders the abcess from breaking through, and can hide the fact that the abcess may be deeper than thought. (I learned this from experience and missed a summer of showing because of it...)

A bruise, on the other hand, may not be as painful as an abcess...

Good luck!

[Puddin Pie]

Painted Hill: we need to start the clique of "My horse is lame and I don't know why" See my post about the 3 week plus possible abscess ordeal!

[Rick Burten]

Would bute help an abcess?

No, in fact, its contra-indicated.

He passed all flexion tests. I guess now I am just worried it could be a high suspensory. But again, no tenderness in that area. I am highly suspicious of deep abcess or bruise, but again, not experience much with these. Like I said, he did have one point that was pretty tender with testers before block, but vet didn't think it was enough. Go figure, his first recognized is in three weeks. :mad:

You might want to consider a second opinion from an equine lameness specialist veterinarian.

[yellowbritches]

This JUST happened to us. A client's horse came up lame, wasn't really reactive to hoof testers. We take him to the vet. He doesn't block to anything. Ended up doing a front end bonescan...to find the abscess!!! :eek: A very expensive way to locate them, but we rather it be that then something horrible, as we were fearing. He did actually block to his foot a couple of days later.

[FLeckenAwesome]

yellowbritches..that sounds like my mare! She was 24 or 25 at the time, and had a long history of founder and recurring issues due to that. She became lame and I thought...oh, abscess but then... it seemed to take FOREVER and got to the point where she was three-legged lame and almost groaning. She was down more than up.... (it sounds awful and it was but this was only one morning) so I called the vet in tears thinking....this is it, time to say good bye.... and then after I walked out to spend some time with her just in case.... and she was up and grazing... and I noticed this huge wad of gnats around her foot.... Get out there and it finally bust through the coronary band and was NASTY!!!! But she felt instantly better :) Called back and cancelled :) YAY!!!!

Fleckers is still pretty sore today, but he had his bruise dug out by my vet. She said about 7-10 days before he gets enough granulation tissue to reshoe and ride. We're on day 4 and... he is getting better but still sore. But atleast now I know what it is!! So much better :)

Hope your pony is better!

[Cheval Gris]

Yes, horse is fit enough-been gearing up for first recognized for a year and half. Likely the fittest BN there, if we make it :( . Schooling with several horses takes a couple hours to complete, you aren't actually working 3 hours! Bruise sounds like my best hope. High suspensory my worst. Not knowing really sucks. I would feel really dumb to do a bunch of xrays and ultrasound a couple days in just to find a bruise. I hope its not irresponisble giving a few more days to see what occurs. He is only off a little at the trot, not 3 legged. Errr.

[2enduraceriders]

I had a client spen a few hundred for a vet to block her horse. The vet could not even decie what leg the mare was head bobbing lame on.

I spent a total of 15 minutes with the mare. Had her on hard ground and flexed an trotted her. Became clear as a bell to owner and the 5 people waching she was sore in the knee.

I do not understand spending a fortune for blocks before not even trying to pinpoint the problem area by flexing and trotting off. But I guess vets need to make a good living.

[Rick Burten]

I spent a total of 15 minutes with the mare. Had her on hard ground and flexed an trotted her. Became clear as a bell to owner and the 5 people waching she was sore in the knee.


It is interesting that you performed a diagnostic test(s} on this horse and then based on that, issued an evaluation. Are you perhaps, a veterinarian? Are you a trained, accredited diagnostician?

Just wonderin' is all.............

[Cheval Gris]

The blocks were only 40$, lidocaine. Possibly something else? Confused

[Pancakes]

I had a client spen a few hundred for a vet to block her horse. The vet could not even decie what leg the mare was head bobbing lame on.

I spent a total of 15 minutes with the mare. Had her on hard ground and flexed an trotted her. Became clear as a bell to owner and the 5 people waching she was sore in the knee.

I do not understand spending a fortune for blocks before not even trying to pinpoint the problem area by flexing and trotting off. But I guess vets need to make a good living.

How do you know it was the knee? Did you put intra-articular anesthesia in the carpus which resolved the lameness? Or did you flex at the carpus ONLY (lower limb flexure rarely flexes one joint ONLY)? How can your rule out a proximal check ligament problem? How can you rule out a high origin of the suspensory problem? Carpal ligament problem? My point is that blocks are valuable and more specific for pintpointing lamenesses than flexion tests alone.

And lameness are complicated sometimes -- a positive flexion test to one joint does not exclude the possibility of other things going on. It gives an idea of where a horse might be sore, yes, but sometimes blocking one area uncovers another area of lameness/soreness which might have been missed had there just been a conclusion based on flexion alone.

Vets are NOT out there to make more money and perform unnecessary tests. This is a HUGE pet peeve of mine. They ask for more tests to be performed because they need as much information as possible to make an informed decision and come to a conclusion. True, some vets are better at it than others and can make a conclusion with fewer tests and more based on experience and expertise. But why would a vet needlessly perform tests to extort more money that could better be used on things that are actually needed later? It just doesn't make sense.

[2enduraceriders]

It is interesting that you performed a diagnostic test(s} on this horse and then based on that, issued an evaluation. Are you perhaps, a veterinarian? Are you a trained, accredited diagnostician?

Just wonderin' is all.............

I am enough of a horseman to know how to hold a leg in a flexed position to check each joint and work my way up the leg.
Sure does not take a rocket scientist to see no change in the lower leg and then a horse that bobs off so bad her nose almost hits the ground the first three steps when just her knee is flexed.

I never asked for or received payment. I also did not make any comment to the owner who had just paid a vet for a lameness exam that stooped well below the knee with no results.

Nerve blocks and ex-rays have their place. Considering what they cost doing any at random would exceed the cos of most horses. It is cheaper and far less time consuming to spend a little time and effort doing flexion tests before spending for ex-rays and nerve blocks.

(edited for my dyslexic writing and spelling)

[BumbleBee]

Yes, horse is fit enough-been gearing up for first recognized for a year and half. Likely the fittest BN there, if we make it :( . Schooling with several horses takes a couple hours to complete, you aren't actually working 3 hours! Bruise sounds like my best hope. High suspensory my worst. Not knowing really sucks. I would feel really dumb to do a bunch of xrays and ultrasound a couple days in just to find a bruise. I hope its not irresponisble giving a few more days to see what occurs. He is only off a little at the trot, not 3 legged. Errr.

Okay sorry for reading wrong, you would be suprised how some owners don't consider conditioning. Did you cross and rocky areas where your horse might have picked up a rock? Ill jingle it's something simple.:yes:

[2enduraceriders]

Or did you flex at the carpus ONLY (lower limb flexure rarely flexes one joint ONLY)? .

Exactly!!!! It is very simply to learn to flex one joint at a time.

The owner was frustrated by paying a vet and getting no answer at all.


If you saw a horse out on fresh grass standing rocked back on its front feet with a strong itital pulse would you suggest that it may be foundering?
do you need to be a "a veterinarian? Are you a trained, accredited diagnostician?"

A flexion test is something any owner who can lift a leg can do.
I sure would not go to the Dr and then not tell them my symptoms. Why waste a vets time on something so easy?

[Pancakes]

Exactly!!!! It is very simply to learn to flex one joint at a time.

The owner was frustrated by paying a vet and getting no answer at all.


If you saw a horse out on fresh grass standing rocked back on its front feet with a strong itital pulse would you suggest that it may be foundering?
do you need to be a "a veterinarian? Are you a trained, accredited diagnostician?"

A flexion test is something any owner who can lift a leg can do.
I sure would not go to the Dr and then not tell them my symptoms. Why waste a vets time on something so easy?


Well, it's certainly possible that vet wasn't as competent, but what I'm just pointing out is that sometimes (maybe not in the case you experienced), it's not as simple as just one joint involved. And especially for hind legs, flexion tests really don't localize the lameness -- that darn reciprocal apparatus make it physically impossible. Each case is different though, and it's up to you to use your best judgment!

[Rick Burten]

I am enough of a horseman

According to whom?

to know how to hold a leg in a flexed position to check each joint and work my way up the leg.
Sure does not take a rocket scientist to see no change in the lower leg and then a horse that bobs off so bad her nose almost hits the ground the first three steps when just her knee is flexed.

Its fun playing doctor, isn't it? So should we now address you as AAV(almost a vet)?

I never asked for or received payment.

So? Does that somehow lessen the fact that you performed a diagnostic examination?

I also did not make any comment to the owner who had just paid a vet for a lameness exam that stooped well below the knee with no results.

So? Did anyone ask the vet why s/he didn't do flexion tests higher up the limb?

It is cheaper and far less time consuming to spend a little time and effort doing flexion tests before spending for ex-rays and nerve blocks.

Really? Performing full series flexion tests expends less effort and time than nerve blocks and/or radiographs? Who knew?

[yellowbritches]

FOR THE RECORD, when all this happened last week with our horse, the head vet at our clinic (who is a world renowned lameness/sports medicine vet) told us that absecsses don't always block. It is possible. And, our blocks were checked via the very scientific ballpoint pen to the heel test. He definitely blocked. So, while the OP's vet very well could be incompetent, the horse also very well could have an absecss and not blocked.

OP, if you are truly concerned that the vet got it wrong, have another vet out. BUT it is not uncommon for them not to block.

[Tom Stovall]

yellowbritches

FOR THE RECORD, when all this happened last week with our horse, the head vet at our clinic (who is a world renowned lameness/sports medicine vet) told us that absecsses don't always block.

Do tell?

It is possible.

Did the "world renowned lameness/sports medicine vet" explain the precise mechanism by which this is alleged to occur? A horse's information highway has been mapped fairly well and, while there are scenarios in which a posterior digital block can miss an abscess, a ring block won't.

And, our blocks were checked via the very scientific ballpoint pen to the heel test. He definitely blocked.

LMAO! How about the very scientific ballpoint pen to the dorsum of the coronary band? The anesthetic used for a PD doesn't affect the entire hoof, just the posterior half/third, depending on bifurcations.

So, while the OP's vet very well could be incompetent, the horse also very well could have an absecss and not blocked.

While it's certainly possible a PD could miss an abscess, not all abscesses (or pathologies) are located in the posterior half/third of the hoof capsule. When a lameness doesn't block out with a PD, a ring block is usually the next step because that blocks out the entire hoof capsule.

OP, if you are truly concerned that the vet got it wrong, have another vet out. BUT it is not uncommon for them not to block.

I beg to differ. An abscess in the hoof capsule can hide from a PD, but not from a ring block. :)

[Pancakes]

I beg to differ. An abscess in the hoof capsule can hide from a PD, but not from a ring block. :)

Agreed. As we say in anatomy class...all animals don't read the book! The PD definitely could have failed to block the entire hoof, not necessarily because the PD block was done incorrectly, but because the horse's anatomy may have been different.

[yellowbritches]

yellowbritches

FOR THE RECORD, when all this happened last week with our horse, the head vet at our clinic (who is a world renowned lameness/sports medicine vet) told us that absecsses don't always block.

Do tell?

It is possible.

Did the "world renowned lameness/sports medicine vet" explain the precise mechanism by which this is alleged to occur? A horse's information highway has been mapped fairly well and, while there are scenarios in which a posterior digital block can miss an abscess, a ring block won't.

And, our blocks were checked via the very scientific ballpoint pen to the heel test. He definitely blocked.

LMAO! How about the very scientific ballpoint pen to the dorsum of the coronary band? The anesthetic used for a PD doesn't affect the entire hoof, just the posterior half/third, depending on bifurcations.

So, while the OP's vet very well could be incompetent, the horse also very well could have an absecss and not blocked.

While it's certainly possible a PD could miss an abscess, not all abscesses (or pathologies) are located in the posterior half/third of the hoof capsule. When a lameness doesn't block out with a PD, a ring block is usually the next step because that blocks out the entire hoof capsule.

OP, if you are truly concerned that the vet got it wrong, have another vet out. BUT it is not uncommon for them not to block.

I beg to differ. An abscess in the hoof capsule can hide from a PD, but not from a ring block. :)
I bow to your superior knowledge. We started with a PD, and moved on from there, going to the whole foot, and on up. (You do realize I was being silly about the whole "very scientific ballpoint pen," right?? We were joking about it the day we had the horse in the clinic. And, he got poked with that very fancy piece of equipment everywhere, including the coronary, like you mentioned, once we moved on) Anyway, the treating vet went meticulously up this horse's leg with blocks, and we never got it. The head vet told the treating vet, after reviewing the bonescan that blocks can miss abscesses, but, no, I did not get the lesson in why that can happen, as we did not communicate with him, but the treating vet. Who knows? Because it was not him looking at the horse and it took a freaking bonescan to find the abscess, maybe he told her to tell us that to make us and our client feel better about the amount of money that was spent to find an abscess, and gave her a lecture regarding doing bad blocks or not taking an x-ray, just in case. All I know is what I was told...which, now that I feel a little silly for sharing my experience, seems to be not as much as I should know.

So, I wish I had more reliable info, but since I don't right now, I can only share what I have experienced. All I know is that the day our horse went in, the snot was blocked out of him and he never came sound (we blocked AFTER a thorough movement exam with flexions on all four limbs and lungeing, as well). He was bonescanned the next day with big time uptake in the foot in question. He finally started to give a decent reaction to hoof testers and DID block the day following the bonescan (Tom, is it possible it did not block originally because it was JUST starting to brew? Doesn't seem likely to me. Just trying to fill in the gaps in my education). He blew the absecess Wed. The horse is also incredibly stoic, not that has much to do with how he blocked.

Tom, really truly, thanks for pointing out what I need to get more info on. Honestly, the vet in question is highly regarded and knows his stuff and he's never blown smoke up our butts when something has seemed funky. If I get the info you asked for, I will be sure to share.

[2enduraceriders]

According to whom?
Its fun playing doctor, isn't it? So should we now address you as AAV(almost a vet)?


Rick I know it is hard for you to accept but there truly are horsemen and women out there who know as much as you do!
Some have even shod and trimmed more horses then you.

I have simply tried to offer some ideas for this owner who is trying to help her horse. She is free, like you, to read and take from my dyslexic writings as much or as little as she likes. I have no need to prove anything to you.

I am happy with my client and the veterinarians I have worked with over the last 35 years. I am still getting referrals from the veterinarians so they must still be happy with me.

I will read and enjoy your comments to the fanatical barefoot crowd but will not again write to "prove" myself to you. I will attempt to offer support to any person who is trying to do their best for their horse.

[Cheval Gris]

I am pretty positive a ring black was not done. Just the posterior.

[Cheval Gris]

Farrier pulled shoes today and trimmed toe...bloody abcess popped. I have never been so happy to see blood!! Thanks guys. The post about the ring block vs PD block..I am pretty sure the reason he didn't come sound was because a PD block was done.

[merrygoround]

Nothin' like a little old stray pony, instead of a big cranky ole zebra. :D

Saved money on those wedges, too. :yes:

[Tom Stovall]

Painted Hill in gray

Farrier pulled shoes today and trimmed toe...bloody abcess popped. I have never been so happy to see blood!! Thanks guys. The post about the ring block vs PD block..I am pretty sure the reason he didn't come sound was because a PD block was done.

There ain't nothing quite as nice as having a horse go from dead lame to damn near sound in a matter of minutes. Hooray for our side! :)

[Puddin Pie]

Good for you. Mine horsie is still quite lame. Poulticing 2x a day until today-4-6 inches of snow and I was going no where except by foot. I understand they had to shut down I-85 last night. I plan to go out tomorrow. My blocks weren't that expensive either. It seemed logical to me to jog, block and jog again to determine where to start xraying or if the shoe should be pulled. I think I need stock in 3M by now with all the vet wrap and duct tape. A friend at the barn has one of those great pull on boots, so he is wearing that with a foam pad in the bottom over all of his poultices-held on by duct tape as he has managed to break the wires that hold it shut. Perhaps sub freezing weather will convince this thing to burst.

[Rusty Stirrup]

Abscesses can be notoriously hard to diagnose. Usually the horse becomes very lame, very quickly with a lot of heat and a strong pulse in the foot. One soaks and packs the foot with icthamol, wraps and the farrier uses either testers or (my preference) a heat laser gun to pin-point the area, opens it and it's over in a week. That said, I've had horses that were off and on lame, no heat or pulse, no "hot spot" found and finally after weeks the abscess is either found or travels up to become a "gravel". Bad bruises can become abscesses also or just be bad bruises. Some experts now say don't soak, you only make the sole soft and more sensitive. Some want to x-ray right away. Some block. Some horses are more stoic than others and don't let you know where it hurts as easily. While some vets aren't as good at finding the root cause (by God, they're human and as the saying goes-the horses don't read the books), one is paying for an expert and experienced opinion. Usually worth the $$, sometimes not.

I'm glad your horse "popped" I have one right now that we thing has the deep, cold type.

[Rick Burten]

Rick I know it is hard for you to accept but there truly are horsemen and women out there who know as much as you do!

Not hard to accept at all. In fact, there are many who know more than I do. Difference is, they don't go around telling others that they are horsemen/women. They don't have to. Its readily apparent.

Some have even shod and trimmed more horses then you.

Since you have absolutely no way of knowing how many horses I have trimmed/shod during my career, your comment is specious, if not ludicrous, at best.

I have no need to prove anything to you.


Never asked you to so do.

I am happy with my client and the veterinarians I have worked with over the last 35 years. I am still getting referrals from the veterinarians so they must still be happy with me.

Well good for you.

I will read and enjoy your comments to the fanatical barefoot crowd but will not again write to "prove" myself to you.

Lets try this again, this time with comprehension. I never asked you to so do.

[FLeckenAwesome]

YAY!!!
My pony's was cut out a week ago today and now today!!!! we were able to put the shoe back on cause he's no longer sore and... although he trotted out a bit off at first, he is now sound!!! YAY!!! Only 14 days....

Anyways... glad to hear your pony is on the way up now :) Whoo hooO!! I know what you mean... us horse people, we get sooo excited about the oddest things... poop!! Blood!! Pus!!! hee hee...

Congrats :)

[Cheval Gris]

So after we got some blood, farrier replaced shoe and left a pocket so it could continue to drain. Horse was very happy that day. Next day a little sore, today dead lame. Pulled shoe, let it bleed, but no puss. Does smell a little. Now hes wearing diapers, epsom/icthammol. Not sure how deep, but I think it is pretty high. Not looking good for the event next weekend. Much more lame after we pulled the shoe. So terrible watching him hobble around. This really sucks. Now I am worried about laminitis in the other foot. If it doesn't show itself in next day or two, I think I am going to have the vet take a picture and dry to drill a path for it. Jingles. Sucks.

[Puddin Pie]

Painted Hill- Are you sure you didn't run up 85 and grab my horse, b/c we are going through the exact same thing, except we have yet to have blood and pus, just lame. I swear I need stock in 3M for all the vet wrap and duct tape I am using. Together we should certainly rebound the economy in consumer goods!!! Fingers crossed for you-and you do the same for me!!

[Cheval Gris]

Jingling for you Puddin. I just started poultices today. This is brutal. Now I am paranoid its something else with no pics/thermography and such a nasty bruise. Can't quite decide about bute. Seems to be no bute...which kind of goes along with what I have experienced. Better for a little while, no bute this morning, now much worse. I read that bute interferes with inflammation (duh) and allows abcess to "hide" then when you stop bute it is worse than before the bute. Classic case for me. He is somewhat pitiful.

[Puddin Pie]

Tryon equine has said no bute. I am calling them again today. At the rate we are going, we are going to have to block the bad foot, just to trim and shoe the other 3!!

[HandsomeBayFarm]

[QUOTE=Painted Hill;3927637] Now I am worried about laminitis in the other foot. [QUOTE]

My guy stood on three legs for almost 3 weeks. Vet packed good foot with some impression material and wrapped.

Keep that foot soaking.

[Tom Stovall]

Painted Hill in gray stuff deleted

So after we got some blood, farrier replaced shoe and left a pocket so it could continue to drain. Horse was very happy that day. Next day a little sore, today dead lame. Pulled shoe, let it bleed, but no puss. Does smell a little...

It sounds like some sensitive sole has prolapsed through the incision your farrier made to drain the abscess.

Has your veterinarian examined at the incision site? It shouldn't still be bleeding unless sensitive tissue is involved and if sensitive sole has prolapsed through the incision, your vet will probably cauterize it and have your farrier take measures to keep environmental pressure from the sensitive area; e.g., bubble on inner web, hospital plate, etc.

[Cheval Gris]

Farrier didn't actually make a cut. We did not know he had the bruise/abcess until he trimmed a tiny bit off of his toe for his regular trimming and found a bruise there. So, there is not a cut, almost just like an abrasion. So I still do not have a good tract. Also, after that he hot shoed him to help with the sensitivity, but like I said, after a day of happiness he was not so happy. Then very lame two days later. After removing the shoe, much more lame.

[enjoytheride]

What is possible is that the hole opened, drained, and the horse felt better. But then the hole closed before it drained all the way or the abscess moved back up in the foot and toward another part of the hoof making the horse lame again.

I'd wrap him and turn him out if he's willing to move and wants to go out. Give him a few days until your farrier/vet comes out and they can open it again to let it finish draining. Sometimes an abscess will travel up and down up and down so they are lame sound lame sound, etc. Sometimes the same abscess will drain several times or it will go up and come out the cornet band.

My farrier would not shoe a horse with an abscess because you take the risk of shoeing over the abscess and blocking it, having to pull the shoe when you mess with the abscess, or cause pain by nailing in sensitive areas.

By pulling the shoe the abscess is closer to the ground so your horse is squishing it around more causing more pain and the lack of shoe and movement of the horse may have caused the rest of the abscess to move closer to the surface and more ready to burst again.

Do not worry about laminitis or trimming the other feet right now and do not bute. Again, if he will move around at all put him outside if the hole closed up to let the abscess squish around and work to the surface.

[Cheval Gris]

I do believe this is what is going on. I think it was such a slight scratch to the surface that it closed up again, probably sealing some dirt in with it. He is barefoot on the foot now and wrapped with icthammol. The spot where the bruise is has become very soft, so I am hoping it will come out here. Stopped bute, didn't help, equioxx didn't help either. He is out and about and moving pretty good, which is why I didn't stall him because if he is standing still he puts all weight on good foot. Put him up today but thinking I will let him back out.