MidAtlantic horse owners....do all of the horses in your barn

[mothermucker12]

get the same vaccinations? We are a small self care barn, about 14 horses, some leave the property often for lesson/shows....others never leave(lawn ornaments!!) would you give all the horses the same vaccinations? I ask because we always have the vet out twice a year to give shots, and a woman at the barn said tonight that she wasn't going to get twice a year anymore, and no more rhino/flu, botulism(we feed round bales in the winter) and something else I can't remember. Just because her horse doesn't leave the property does that exclude her from getting what everyone else is getting?? Our contract just says horses must be current on vaccines...so what's the minimum in the midatlantic area?? Thanks! BTW aren't there some new vaccines that now only need to be given once a year, that maybe in the past were twice a year?

[yellowbritches]

Yes, always, especially with flu/rhino and strangles. Horses can very easily pick something up and carry it home. They may be vaccinated for it so won't have an issue, but a horse at home that isn't vaccinated for it could get sick. If they get sick with something like strangles, it is a PITA for EVERYONE on the farm, as that means quarantine.

[yellowbritches]

PS- I tend to think we over vaccinate, and the vets encourage it as it is a pleasant way to make some cash. I only vaccinate twice a year for Potomac, since it is prevalent here in MD (we're actually only a few miles from where it was originally discovered), and flu/rhino, because we have so many horses competing, AND it needs to be done every six months for horses with FEI passports.

[Ajierene]

My mare gets everything under the sun. I am not sure what her fieldmate has gotten, if anything. The closest horses are on the other side of the driveway and probably do not get any vaccinations. The barn owners only give any vaccinations to the horses that will go somewhere this year. They also only get negative coggins for horses that will be going somewhere. Personally, I think like worming, it is better if everyone is on the same, or at least similar page....but alas, such is life.

[2 tbs]

Yes. All horses, whether they stay or go, get the same shots (and worming for that matter). I used to give mine a couple extra vacs but I've cut that out since those diseasees are not an immediate threat here anymore.

My retired horse hasn't left the property in 5 years and has only been on a handful of trail rides circling the farm in that same amt of time but I even go so far as to pull a coggins on him yearly - just in case! You never know when we might have to go somewhere in a hurry ;)

[findeight]

We may or may not overvaccinate but my last 3 barns over 15 years in the Northeast and kind of mid Atlantic/midwest locale I am in now have required basic vaccinations. As a result I see very, very few cases of the crap we vaccinate for. A long stay at one with up to 75 head constantly coming and going and I saw one come in sick with strangles (new employee's personal horse) that only infected 2 others in the 2 days before it was obviously sick and isolated and a single bad case of PHF brought back from a winter show that infected ZERO others.

It has been in the boarding contracts. The barns have scedualed it with the regular barn vet, that way they get done, there is a price break and there is no question they get done.

IMO if you have alot of turnover with sale horses, imports, breeding business, horses in and out for shows or guest horses at on site shows? It is prudent in an area with humid summers that breed flies and mosquitos.

Maybe in the desert, not so much. Or if you have a smaller, constant population that does not come and go to shows, you can slack off on that.

But I have sure been in a bunch of barns in past years with no such policy that ended up with sick horses that infected many others that might have been at least lessened by common and relatively cheap vaccinations. Talking flu mostly, and rhinovirus that went thru half the barn.

Any horse that leaves the property to spend time with an outside group and any new horse can bring the stuff in and infect ANY other horse on the property.

If you manage a barn that sends horses off to shows? You might consider requiring whatever vaccinations you consider basic. Disclose it, put it in your contract. Don't penalize any who disagree and wish to leave.

I venture a guess that most of the better barns in the area do require proof of vaccination or just schedual it for all clients.

[mothermucker12]

Yes. All horses, whether they stay or go, get the same shots (and worming for that matter). I used to give mine a couple extra vacs but I've cut that out since those diseasees are not an immediate threat here anymore.;)

curious what did you cut out??

[mothermucker12]

we do not have a high turnover rate, we went 5-6 years with no turnover, average 1 horse maybe every 2 years...but we do have horses that leave the property, some show more than others. the contract only says up to date on vaccinations, it doesn't say which ones....it's a self care barn...but i want my horse to be safe(and yes we switch barns for the show season), so he will get everything!

[shawneeAcres]

We may or may not overvaccinate but my last 3 barns over 15 years in the Northeast and kind of mid Atlantic/midwest locale I am in now have required basic vaccinations. As a result I see very, very few cases of the crap we vaccinate for. A long stay at one with up to 75 head constantly coming and going and I saw one come in sick with strangles (new employee's personal horse) that only infected 2 others in the 2 days before it was obviously sick and isolated and a single bad case of PHF brought back from a winter show that infected ZERO others.
.

horses do not transmitt PHF from horse to horse, it is thru an insect vector, thought to be a larvae stage of the mayfly, not saying anything about vaccination, but the reason a PHF horse did not transmitt the disease had nothing to do with vaccination status

[mothermucker12]

bumping up fro more suggestions...what is pretty much mandatory in our region for vaccinations, remember some horses do leave property for showing/lessons...is there a threat to my horse if this woman doesn't get same vaccines?

[2 tbs]

curious what did you cut out??

PHF and Strangles. I only did the strangles twice. The PHF I was giving for quite some time due to an outbreak but since it isn't a threat (for now), I've stopped giving it.

I also added botulism though. One of my horses is on a round bale so he's sure to get it and the other gets it because a friends horse got it from a bag of feed (or at least that's all they could come up with as a cause). I know the vac doesn't cover all strains but I feel better covering them for one at least!

[mothermucker12]

2tbs- yeah we usually give all three of those

[Hopeful Hunter]

There is a minimum requirement, but after that, it depends on the horses' jobs.

The stay at homes get the basic set; the show horses get add ons. Some other horse get one or more other things based on owner paranoia (*raising hand for botulism*) and specific needs.

So, yes, there is one set of "required" vaccines at a minimum, then an optional recommended set depending on what the horse does and where it goes.

[mothermucker12]

There is a minimum requirement, but after that, it depends on the horses' jobs.

The stay at homes get the basic set; the show horses get add ons. Some other horse get one or more other things based on owner paranoia (*raising hand for botulism*) and specific needs.

So, yes, there is one set of "required" vaccines at a minimum, then an optional recommended set depending on what the horse does and where it goes.

so what would you consider basic "required" set?

[SLW]

Closed herd with no travel is one thing, closed herd sharing pastures w/ some coming and going is another while closed herd w/ some coming and going but never being near those who never leave the farm is yet different.

It is less expensive to vaccinate for certain diseases than to treat them. That being said, let the owners decide what they want for their horses. Rabies would be mandatory to protect human life- the rest can be a crap shoot for an owner who wants to watch pennies.

My closed herd has 5 equines in residence but since three of them haul out regularly, each spring all 5 are vaccinated against strep, WNV, 5-Way and rabies. I don't reboost flu/rhino in the fall because at that point in the year any haul out we are doing isn't horse show related.

[Fairview Horse Center]

The AAEp considers these Core vaccines, and should be given annually http://www.aaep.org/core_vaccinations.htm

The West Nile is a bit of a question in my mind. When this country was pristine, it was a problem, but once it has gone thru an area, a natural immunity seems to have developed. We don't hear the humans getting W/N anymore, and they are not vaccinated. ;) A good portion of horses are not either, but getting the disease is not happening. It is not transmitable horse to horse, so it is one I leave up to the individual horse owner.

Almost no one here vaccinates for PHF, but if we were 30 miles north, that would surely have to be reconsidered. Again, I would have to see what is currently happening in the area with unvaccinated horses. PHF is also treatable now, and the vaccine is not 100% PHF also not transmitable horse to horse, so up to induvudual owners.

We don't vaccinate for Strangles. Most horses that get strangles are youngsters. It is in the soil, and a natural immunity does develop. Another consideration for me is that I know so few horses that have been vaccinated, but still know more that have died from the vaccine than have ever gotten strangles.

Flu and Rhino only has a 2 to 3 months effectiveness, so unless you are currently vaccinating that often, your horse has been going months each year with no protection. This is why pregnant mares get them every 2 months. Kind of hard to get upset over a few horses that go unprotected 12 months of the year, when the rest goes unprotected 6 to 8.

Overvaccinating is a huge problem that probably causes horses to be at increased danger for other types of illness and cancers.

Choose your "poison" carefully.

Another note about flu and rhino is that the horse is most likely to get sick in the winter months, the same as human flu season. If you are giving them once a year, think about the timing for the 2 to 3 months of coverage. Those of you that have been giving them in the spring (March/April), and continue to show June - October have been unprotected those months. ;) How many of you give your horse a flu vaccine and not your kid or yourself?

[Karma]

Fairview,

Thanks for the breakdown. I think we (the generic we) tend to overvaccinate, due to paranoia and recommendations from our vets. Unfortunately we often don't know the length of immunity provided by a vaccine or if we due (such as flu) we don't follow a useful protocol anyhow.

But, since I am boarding I have to follow the requirements of the barn.

[Renn/aissance]

we do not have a high turnover rate, we went 5-6 years with no turnover, average 1 horse maybe every 2 years...but we do have horses that leave the property, some show more than others. the contract only says up to date on vaccinations, it doesn't say which ones....it's a self care barn...but i want my horse to be safe(and yes we switch barns for the show season), so he will get everything!

Personally, since you have horses leaving and returning, I would require all the horses to have the same vaccinations. The vaccines required at my college barn are:
Flu/Rhino
Tetanus
EEE/WEE
Rabies
PHF
WNV
Strangles (which, if it weren't required, I would not give.)

The only difference between that list and the requirements for the home barn, I believe, are the omission of strangles and the recommendation of botulism.

[Cherry]

the contract only says up to date on vaccinations, it doesn't say which ones....
Mothermucker--who wrote the contract???? Whoever wrote the contract should re-write it specifying what vaccines are expected of the boarders! If you don't know what vaccines are necessary for your area then call your vet and ask! Your vet would be in a better position to tell you what diseases he/she is seeing in your locality--much better idea than asking a bunch of strangers on a bulletin board who may, or may not know, what's going on in your area!!!! :eek:

If you have the vaccines listed on the contract it would weed out people who are not on the same page as the rest of the boarders, stop the panic and the need to expunge a boarder if there is someone boarding there who does not think like you and your stablemates. There is nothing worse then boarding with someone who is not on the same wavelength..... A little forethought takes away a lot of the drama involved with self-boarding.... ;)

You do realize that getting a horse vaccinated does not mean he won't get the disease you are vaccinating against, don't you??? :uhoh: All it means is that if he gets the disease it may not be so severe that he dies--there are no guarantees. For every vaccination there are strains that the vaccines won't work for.

Call your vet!