SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT: Christan and Teddy

[pwynnnorman]

:mad::mad::mad::mad:

Let me make this absolutely clear.

In the article in this month's Eventing magazine featuring Christan Trainor and Theodore O'Connor, Christan states that I took Teddy away from her and immediately shipped him to Karen O'Connor: "Trainor and Teddy moved back to North Carolina in early 2005 and within days Norman informed her Teddy would be returning to the O'Connor's farm," states the article.

That is FALSE.

Immediately after the Georgia CIC**, I told Christan I could not financially support her efforts with Teddy any more. A few weeks after that (and I am leaving out details for Christan's sake here, not mine), I brought Teddy home. As the Eventing magazine article states, that was in the spring of 2005.

While Teddy was home, I used hunter rider Holly Dometrorch of Nebulon, NC, to school him. She told me she knew Darren Chiachia, so it was my hope that she might help me get Teddy sold through that contact. She was also riding another pony for me at the time. Also during that time, 11-year-old, Katrina Grant, exercised Teddy for me at home. Here is a picture of her riding him: http://www.sportponiesunlimited.com/Teddy_Before_Eventing.html. Katrina is now a working student with Amanda Miller in North Carolina. And also during that time, I called several other BNTs about Teddy, including Buck Davidson, who was even quoted in another article (in The Chronicle, IIRC) about that fact--all of which is irrefutable proof that Teddy hardly went straight from Christan to Karen.

Moreover, because I am in business not in play about breeding these ponies, I have documentation ranging from credit card receipts to bills to phone records to even a copy of the letter I sent to Karen via Priority Mail in an attempt to get her to respond to my unanswered, summer-long telephone queries. It was not until the early fall of 2005 that I trailered Teddy up to Karen's place in Virginia.

In addition, and also because I am in business, let me make it clear through this post that Christan Trainor never rode ANY of Teddy's FULL SIBLINGS except the one she bought and so she is no judge whatsoever of their qualities. Her statement in the article that "Teddy's other siblings haven't been so much like him. Coda is very forward and quick. He's really tuned in" is an outrageously unprofessional and insensitive reflection on my breeding program, feeding into what I've said many times makes me very angry: the idea that Teddy was some kind of freak instead of the product of a breeding program I've spent a friggin' LIFETIME developing!!!

I am a breeder. I produce ponies of a certain quality and nature INTENTIONALLY. As I've said to many people often, meet Teddy's dam--or, better still, try handling her--and you'll damn well know where a heck of a lot of his forwardness, quickness and "tuned-ness" comes from! Christan Trainor's statement illustrates only that she knows NOTHING of what produced the traits Teddy had.

Moreover, Christan has not ridden Teddy's full sister Catahoula, whom Karen will tell you has some traits (her canter and her self-carriage) that are even BETTER than Teddy's. Christan has not ridden Cooper, whom Imtiaz Anees will tell you can "tune in" to his rider just FINE and is mighty quick, too! Christan never even met Theoretical, the sire of the only other Teddy relatives she actually did ride (Cory and Robbie, both of whom became winning hunter ponies)! And Christan has not ridden Kevlar, whom a slew of riders he's turned into lawn darts would attest is extremely athletic, forward and mighty damn quick. In fact, HERE is a video of Kevvie taken just the other day that should illustrate a heck of a lot about where MY judgment has led MY breeding program and MY stock: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IGLO_7BC1s. Anyone who wants to sprout at opinion of my program is quite welcome to do so, but check your FACTS first!!!

I expect Christan to correct the record and apologize to me publicly. I have called Eventing magazine and made my feelings about this clear. I will end this by stating what I have been saying far too much lately: I love this sport, but the people in it need to grow the f&*^ up and learn what it means to be a professional or the sport will cease to exist except among the very wealthy few.

[LexInVA]

Rut roh! :eek:

[53]

What role do you believe the magazine itself played in the final edit of the article? I would believe more so than Christan herself, wouldn't you?

[Eventfan4LIFE]

Lady, I think you need a Xanax.
Is it possible that when you, um, picked Teddy up Christen assumed (rightly apparently) that you were giving him to KO? Are you really going to give yourself a coronary over this?

[Jaegermonster]

Wow. I always take everything I read with a grain of salt, at least in magazines and so on. Having been interviewed quite a bit myself, journalists and so on can play all kinds of games with what you actually said.
I think this would have been better addressed privately rather than in a public tantrum, and then both of you address it here together if it was still warranted.

[LexInVA]

I would hope they wouldn't screw Christan like that with such FUD but it would seem that the facts given in the article are so blatantly false as to incite the rage of P.Wynn. That alone says to me that something is clearly wrong here since she is usually about as unemotional in her postings as I am entertaining. Well to some of you anyway. :lol:

[gottagrey]

Not knowing any of the parties involved, it could be that the magazine left out part of the timeline as most readers would know that Teddy eventually ended up with Karen O'Connor. So from Spring 2005 to Fall 2005 - perhaps about 6 months - while that' s not "immediate" it's not exactly a long amount of time either...

I understand your being upset for a number of reasons... but I would like to think that there were no ill intentions -

[bornfreenowexpensive]

Wow. I always take everything I read with a grain of salt, at least in magazines and so on. Having been interviewed quite a bit myself, journalists and so on can play all kinds of games with what you actually said.
I think this would have been better addressed privately rather than in a public tantrum, and then both of you address it here together if it was still warranted.


Agreed. The OP comes across as the unprofessional one here.

And on the siblings....I've never known any to be the same. I have three siblings...all night and day from one another but all talented. I know other family lines that I've either ridden or I know folks who have ridden them (worked for folks would consistently bred top level athletes). They are all different but still talented. Good breeding produces top athletes....not identical horses. A good breeding program will consistently produce top knotch horses...but they will NOT all be the same to ride and will often be very different from one another (with maybe one or two similar traits....but not always). It doesn't make any one of them a freak or not a freak...it makes them all good quality horses.

[Eventfan4LIFE]

business[/I], let me make it clear through this post that Christan Trainor never rode ANY of Teddy's FULL SIBLINGS except the one she bought and so she is no judge whatsoever of their qualities. Her statement in the article that "Teddy's other siblings haven't been so much like him. Coda is very forward and quick. He's really tuned in" is an outrageously unprofessional and insensitive reflection on my breeding program, feeding into what I've said many times makes me very angry: the idea that Teddy was some kind of freak instead of the product of a breeding program I've spent a friggin' LIFETIME developing!!!

I am a breeder. I produce ponies of a certain quality and nature INTENTIONALLY. As I've said to many people often, meet Teddy's dam--or, better still, try handling her--and you'll damn well know where a heck of a lot of his forwardness, quickness and "tuned-ness" comes from! Christan Trainor's statement illustrates only that she knows NOTHING of what produced the traits Teddy had.

Moreover, Christan has not ridden Teddy's full sister Catahoula, whom Karen will tell you has some traits (her canter and her self-carriage) that are even BETTER than Teddy's. Christan has not ridden Cooper, whom Imtiaz Anees will tell you can "tune in" to his rider just FINE and is mighty quick, too! Christan never even met Theoretical, the sire of the only other Teddy relatives she actually did ride (Cory and Robbie, both of whom became winning hunter ponies)! And Christan has not ridden Kevlar, whom a slew of riders he's turned into lawn darts would attest is extremely athletic, forward and mighty damn quick. In fact, HERE is a video of Kevvie taken just the other day that should illustrate a heck of a lot about where MY judgment has led MY breeding program and MY stock: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IGLO_7BC1s. Anyone who wants to sprout at opinion of my program is quite welcome to do so, but check your FACTS first!!!

I expect Christan to correct the record and apologize to me publicly. I have called Eventing magazine and made my feelings about this clear. I will end this by stating what I have been saying far too much lately: I love this sport, but the people in it need to grow the f&*^ up and learn what it means to be a professional or the sport will cease to exist except among the very wealthy few.

OK, just read through the article. NO WHERE does Christen claim to have ridden any of Teddy's other siblings. I would dare say that a rider of her caliber is MORE THAN QUALIFIED to offer an opinion on movement/quality of a horse and that's what she gave.
Jesus woman, would you read what YOU wrote? It sounds like the only quibble you have is "days" vs. "months" when it comes to Teddy leaving Christen's barn. Can we narrow it down, please?
And while it's fun to rip "the media" for all their "inaccuracies" let me tell you I know the reporter who wrote this story. She's a friend of mine from way back and her ethics and interviewing skills are above reproach.

[gottagrey]

The best thing is probably to write a civilized letter to the editor of Eventing correcting/clarifing any mis-information in the article...

[crittertwitter]

I can understand your anger at the false details. However, I read the article yesterday and don't even recall the comments about Teddy's siblings... I just remember thinking "Oh. I miss Teddy..." and "Excellent! Teddy has a sibling who will be competing..." Really, I didn't actually glean anything negative about your breeding program from it. But, as someone who has written a bit and is super-sensitive to semantics and context, I understand your fury. For anyone who thinks it's not a big deal, imagine if the untruths were written about you.

However, one thing... I do think Teddy was a superpony freak who cannot be replicated. Maybe the others are special and talented, too, but there's no denying the guy was special. 4 minute mile and all that.

[kcrubin]

what's the OP?

[enjoytheride]

Lady, I think you need a Xanax.
Is it possible that when you, um, picked Teddy up Christen assumed (rightly apparently) that you were giving him to KO? Are you really going to give yourself a coronary over this?


Did you read the original post or not? It sounds like when she picked the pony up from Christen she didn't even have Karen in mind and was more intersted in selling him so there was no "taking him from christen and giving him to karen"

I do not know about anything else but I can't stand when people do not read the original post,rant or not.

[LexInVA]

what's the OP?

OP = Original Poster

[2LaZ2race]

Not knowing any of the parties involved, but knowing the story (from other articles about Teddy to reading the OP's web story on him on her webpage) I always got the impression that Christian brought him to Advanced (she didn't break him as a baby but she did do a lot of his training/showing) and then when he started doing well and was an obvious talent a big name rider took over.

I'm not saying this is correct, and by reading your post it obviously isn't BUT I got that impression from other articles not just this one.

Scandal sells... there's a new article in the Globe about President Obama having a gay lover, people like to read dirt and the magazines dish it out. :no:

[enjoytheride]

Not knowing any of the parties involved, but knowing the story (from other articles about Teddy to reading the OP's web story on him on her webpage) I always got the impression that Christian brought him to Advanced (she didn't break him as a baby but she did do a lot of his training/showing) and then when he started doing well and was an obvious talent a big name rider took over.

I'm not saying this is correct, and by reading your post it obviously isn't BUT I got that impression from other articles not just this one.

Scandal sells... there's a new article in the Globe about President Obama having a gay lover, people like to read dirt and the magazines dish it out. :no:

I think that is the conflict here, that people keep saying that Christian did all this hard work and then the horse was stolen from her for a more famous rider to ride instead when that seems it is not the case. It's as if people are blaming Pwynn for not letting Christian have all the fame, wins, and rolex trips that she was meant to have.

I also liken it to saying "hey this is my horse and I doing Novice" and then people get online and say "well don't you forget about the lady that bred him, the guy that broke him, the lady that started him over fences, and the person that showed him to you when you bought him" It's not like I wouldn't appreciate all those people and that I don't recognize that they did good things, but I'm excited about what he's doing right now with me and I can do that without dissing or being reminded about everyone in the past.

[deltawave]

Frankly, I wouldn't have made much of the details in the article until now, and don't see how this does anything but air grievances. He was a great little horse. This does nothing to enhance his memory. :(

I believe you. No need to show me any credit card receipts or a timeline. But what is the purpose of this rant? :confused:

[LexInVA]

Not knowing any of the parties involved, but knowing the story (from other articles about Teddy to reading the OP's web story on him on her webpage) I always got the impression that Christian brought him to Advanced (she didn't break him as a baby but she did do a lot of his training/showing) and then when he started doing well and was an obvious talent a big name rider took over.

I'm not saying this is correct, and by reading your post it obviously isn't BUT I got that impression from other articles not just this one.



I concur as I don't know much about Teddy other than what I've heard from here, a few articles I dug up, and some people who had actually seen that magnificent critter do his thing.

[kcrubin]

I knew from reading an article about Karen and Teddy that Christan had ridden him first and done a great job with him. I wondered why she lost the ride but that's life when you don't own the beasties. I did not get anything derogatory about the breeding program from the article but I did think it insinuated the horse was given over to Karen and she was upset. I can understand her being upset but once again, that's what happens. He was a great horse and I'm glad there are other ones coming up the ranks!

Just for arguements sake - nothing at all against Christan because I don't know her - do you think they would have picked anyone else except Karen, Phillip or someone with that kind of experience to ride a pony on the team? It was his best chance to show what he could do even if it seemed political.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

I think that is the conflict here, that people keep saying that Christian did all this hard work and then the horse was stolen from her for a more famous rider to ride instead when that seems it is not the case. It's as if people are blaming Pwynn for not letting Christian have all the fame, wins, and rolex trips that she was meant to have.



Only in someone's head. There are many top level horses who are brought up to Adv and then moved to a different rider. Especially if owned by a breeder marketing their program...or an owner sells them. It isn't at all unusual or unexpected. Sometimes the rider that puts the base on them isn't the one that can WIN on them in the international arena. That is a different skill set (as well as political) and for business reasons...it can be understandable why a horse/pony would be moved. And it clearly was a smart move with Teddy. Most people would not care if the horse went directly from Christrian to Karen or if he sat for a year and then went to Karen...I know that I don't care.....Karen was just the next rider who had success on him and took him to the next level (the international one). The success he had in the international areana may not have happened without him moving to Karen. Not many folks are going to take a business risk on a starting up trainer......I know that I wouldn't.

[Hilary]

I remember when Wynn was trying to find sponsorships for Teddy. I figured that Christan couldn't afford to keep him, Wynn took him home, and found someone who could foot the bill that a **** prospect requires. "immediately" is an interpretation.

Ask Courtney King or Steffan Peters about the subject. If you don't own the horse you are at the will of the owner.

We all 'know' that KO has more resources than an up and coming trainer. Note that I put "know" in quotations - I have no knowledge of KO's checkbook balance, but all appearances are that she is well funded. And she's earned it. So she got the ride on Teddy.

[2ndyrgal]

and while I might not have been as vehement as Pwynn, it did rather seem to me from the article that Christian inferred that the ride was given over to KOC as she was a BNR, she did not mention that she'd been riding on the OP's nickel and could not a) continue to do so or b) buy Teddy herself. In fact, had I been associated in any way with a horse (pony)as wonderful and famous as Teddy, and had I indeed bought a full brother to him, I'd be singing the breeder's praises from the rooftops, so that people would know that hey, Teddy was great, now watch what THIS super pony (intentionally bred by OP) can do! His get will be just as nice, etc, etc. And while it was all warm and fuzzy for KOC to have riden over and let her ride him one more time, I really wasn't sure quite why we needed that kind of article concerning Teddy, and why is CT a big deal? Is she really, have I just not heard of her? I'm sure she's very good, but she somehow, until this article, well actually this post, have no idea who she is. Corrin Ashton, I know who she is. CT, not so much. Sorry Pwynn, if I was the same 110lbs I was in my early 20's I'd be all over your ponies. Really. I stood at the Creek Oxer last year just to watch Teddy jump it, little brat just flew the damn thing like a timber horse. Good boy.

[pwynnnorman]

If some of you people cannot understand that I am trying to sell ponies and that that makes a HUGE friggin' difference, if you are so unobservant as to miss the insinuation--intentional or not--that I yanked Teddy out from under Christan to give him to a BNT, and if Christan, after the HOURS of conversations we've had about EVERYTHING, cannot be careful enough to edit her words--much less put in a GOOD word for my breeding program, then screw you. People like you are NOT what makes me so entirely unprofitably love this sport.

And if you just can't understand the relationship between doing business and supporting a sport, then you deserve the sport you're going to get a few years down the road.

[SevenDogs]

If some of you people cannot understand that I am trying to sell ponies and that that makes a HUGE friggin' difference, if you are so unobservant as to miss the insinuation--intentional or not--that I yanked Teddy out from under Christan to give him to a BNT, and if Christan, after the HOURS of conversations we've had about EVERYTHING, cannot be careful enough to edit her words--much less put in a GOOD word for my breeding program, then screw you. People like you are NOT what makes me so entirely unprofitably love this sport.

And if you just can't understand the relationship between doing business and supporting a sport, then you deserve the sport you're going to get a few years down the road.

You seem to have a habit of insulting those that don't agree with you... and even some that may agree with you or just don't care.

[JSwan]

If some of you people cannot understand that I am trying to sell ponies and that that makes a HUGE friggin' difference, if you are so unobservant as to miss the insinuation--intentional or not--that I yanked Teddy out from under Christan to give him to a BNT, and if Christan, after the HOURS of conversations we've had about EVERYTHING, cannot be careful enough to edit her words--much less put in a GOOD word for my breeding program, then screw you. People like you are NOT what makes me so entirely unprofitably love this sport.

And if you just can't understand the relationship between doing business and supporting a sport, then you deserve the sport you're going to get a few years down the road.


I do understand and appreciate you are running a business. I understand it so much I think that even if you did yank the pony from her and give the ride to KO - it was a smart business move. Business is business.

That you didn't yank the pony and give it to KO is fine too - but either way it was a business decision, you're the owner, and that's that. Don't explain, don't excuse.

The only thing I find disturbing is your posts. I've been a tremendous fan of yours and I am absolutely shocked by them. Particularly the anger and statement that competitors "deserve" the sport they're going to get - and phrases like "screw you".

That's the type of language I expect from people who are the dregs of the horse world - the idiots who breed everything with a uterus, are poor horsemen, bad businessmen and have no sportsmanship.

Not the breeder that produced Theodore O'Connor.

I'm sorry if any article caused you distress but you should have risen above it.

Best wishes.

[Donkey]

OP, my understanding (as a total ammie) is that you have an excellent reputation as a pony breeder. Anyone worth doing business with will look at your track record and consequent results for proof of your ability and resulting quality. People will not rely on a glossy magazine article written from the point of view of a past character in Teddy's story (who, let's be honest, lost out on a PR goldmine) to judge your reputation.

Anyone who knows enough of the details to notice the inconsistencies probably knows enough of the details to know/discern the truth. Plus everyone knows that all horse people are crazy and that there is ALWAYS another side to any story/gossip heard. Only a fool would take a magazine article as gospel.

[Eventfan4LIFE]

Did you read the original post or not? It sounds like when she picked the pony up from Christen she didn't even have Karen in mind and was more intersted in selling him so there was no "taking him from christen and giving him to karen"

I do not know about anything else but I can't stand when people do not read the original post,rant or not.

Yes, I did read the original post and my question to P Wynn was is that what you are upset about, the fact that he went to KO in months not days. But she went on and on about Christen having no experience with the siblings when Christen never SAYS she had experience with the siblings.
Did you read the USEA story? There is nothing in there for P Wynn to lose it over.

[Donkey]

And if you just can't understand the relationship between doing business and supporting a sport, then you deserve the sport you're going to get a few years down the road.

Speaking of editing....

That's harsh!

My opinion may change now...

Leaving the thread for friendlier pastures.

[Eventfan4LIFE]

If some of you people cannot understand that I am trying to sell ponies and that that makes a HUGE friggin' difference, if you are so unobservant as to miss the insinuation--intentional or not--that I yanked Teddy out from under Christan to give him to a BNT, and if Christan, after the HOURS of conversations we've had about EVERYTHING, cannot be careful enough to edit her words--much less put in a GOOD word for my breeding program, then screw you. People like you are NOT what makes me so entirely unprofitably love this sport.

And if you just can't understand the relationship between doing business and supporting a sport, then you deserve the sport you're going to get a few years down the road.

Wow. Guess you missed the COTH pony breeding issue where Christen is quoted over and over talking about your fantastic breeding program.
Who owes WHO a public apology?

[goodymar1188]

I was just reading today the article in the COTH December Pony Breeding Issue where almost the entire atricle about you was from Christan's statements. ALL of these statements were glowing and positive about your breeding program, and your horses, and frankly, made YOU look pretty darn good. I don't see anything in the current USEA Article that makes you look negative or your breeding program. I can only imagine that Christan would never say something that glowing about you in one article and be negative in another. Maybe it is the interpretation of the reader.

[seeuatx]

Why is it that the owner's always end up portrayed as the bad guy with these sorts of situations?

Remember the Christine Traurig and Etienne deal... all the magazines could talk about was how the mean, awful owners would sell him, Ripping him out from right underneath poor Christine. They didn't talk about how that had all been part of the deal, and Christine had the ride to market the horse for sale. Then the horse didn't sell (in my mind because of all the bad press) and then someone bought the horse for her... and then all the magazines could talk about was how the pair was reunited at last.

I am riding a nice horse right now. For the moment it is win- win. Owner gets training on the horse, I get to take a lesson a week and show in return. But I know it won't last forever... someone might buy him, or a person with a name could show up and offer a better arrangement. Personally if some big name person thought I did a good enough job to make them want the ride on that horse, I would be downright flattered. The thing is this situation will only last so long as it is Win-win... the minute that dynamic changes on either side, so will the arrangement. So it goes.

Pwynn- I don't get that magazine, but I can see how you would feel that you got shafted by the article.

[joharavhf]

And if you just can't understand the relationship between doing business and supporting a sport, then you deserve the sport you're going to get a few years down the road.

I have no idea what happened between you or CT, and I am very sad about Teddy. However, I wanted to give you feedback regarding your business. PLEASE get a new web designer. Your website is SO hard to read that I don't know where, what or how these ponies are bred, who owns them, which ones are for sale, etc, etc....That would be, I think, a huge step in the right direction if you want to run a proper business.....

[Eventfan4LIFE]

I really wasn't sure quite why we needed that kind of article concerning Teddy, and why is CT a big deal? Is she really, have I just not heard of her? I'm sure she's very good, but she somehow, until this article, well actually this post, have no idea who she is.

You didn't hear from her because, to quote someone in the article, she had the horse of a lifetime taken from her.

[deltawave]

Yes, and if I were buying ponies I'd be SURE to want to do business with you NOW. :eek: Would this insane (and embarrassing) raving be an example of the "professional" behavior you've mentioned? :no:

[RAyers]

...


I love this sport, but the people in it need to grow the f&*^ up and learn what it means to be a professional or the sport will cease to exist except among the very wealthy few.



Totally off topic but this is the quote of the decade! It ties together so many threads and attitudes. I am not commenting on anything else and hiding behind the manure pile. I already deal with explosive topics at work. Carry on.

Reed

[Jo]

I find it highly ironic that PWynn is lecturing people bout acting professionally as quoted above, but then post quotes like this:

If some of you people cannot understand that I am trying to sell ponies and that that makes a HUGE friggin' difference, if you are so unobservant as to miss the insinuation--intentional or not--that I yanked Teddy out from under Christan to give him to a BNT, and if Christan, after the HOURS of conversations we've had about EVERYTHING, cannot be careful enough to edit her words--much less put in a GOOD word for my breeding program, then screw you. People like you are NOT what makes me so entirely unprofitably love this sport.

And if you just can't understand the relationship between doing business and supporting a sport, then you deserve the sport you're going to get a few years down the road.

Hello pot? This is the kettle calling...

Editing her words? SERIOUSLY?

Ugh.

[Jaegermonster]

Yes, and if I were buying ponies I'd be SURE to want to do business with you NOW. :eek: Would this insane (and embarrassing) raving be an example of the "professional" behavior you've mentioned? :no:


My sentiments exactly. The screw you part was very professional as well.
And Jo just posted the other thought I had.

[imapepper]

If some of you people cannot understand that I am trying to sell ponies and that that makes a HUGE friggin' difference, if you are so unobservant as to miss the insinuation--intentional or not--that I yanked Teddy out from under Christan to give him to a BNT, and if Christan, after the HOURS of conversations we've had about EVERYTHING, cannot be careful enough to edit her words--much less put in a GOOD word for my breeding program, then screw you. People like you are NOT what makes me so entirely unprofitably love this sport.

And if you just can't understand the relationship between doing business and supporting a sport, then you deserve the sport you're going to get a few years down the road.

I do understand why you are upset....but I think that you are maybe over-reacting a little. I totally respect your program and your opinion. And I usually enjoy your posts because they are well thought out and logical. But this one, I think you might regret some wording :(

Put down the shovel and back away....people who really you know already know what kind of breeder and owner you are....you do not need a public rant. You are better than this :(

[kcrubin]

alright ya'll - she got upset because she felt someone publically slighted her life's work and her animals - tell me we would have handled it better? common!!

let's all let it go, shall we?

[Jaegermonster]

If she wants to be treated like a professional she should act like one. Airing all sorts of dirty laundry in public is not professional, nor is telling everyone "screw you" and so on when they don't agree and genuflect.
This should all have been addressed privately. The OP is the one who put it out there.

And I'm not at all surprised that we haven't heard from Christan. She has too much class to answer this.

[Gayla]

Why do you care so much what she said. Did you breed that great horse or not? Do you believe in the horses you continue to breed? Then why do you give a rat's ass what anyone says about you? Buck up and grow a little thicker skin...it goes a long way in the world.

[blackwly]

Well, while Wynn is definitely coming across as a little too hot under the collar, I do understand her point. I've followed the characters and the story for a while, and when I read the article in Eventing (before this thread began) I thought to myself, "Wow, that's a totally different perspective then I have heard before. Sounds like Christan has a problem with the way the horse was sold out from under her."

So I would probably be upset if I was Wynn too. Might not air my grievances publically but whatever. I think that the notion that people who are paid to campaign horses for often very generous owners have some sort of "right" to the horse is voiced all too often. Part of the game is letting go of horses that don't belong to you if the owner decides to take them elsewhere. Alternatively you can have a non-horsey job, buy them yourself, and do with them whatever you like!

[TheBrightSide06]

:mad::mad::mad::mad:

Let me make this absolutely clear.

In the article in this month's Eventing magazine featuring Christan Trainor and Theodore O'Connor, Christan states that I took Teddy away from her and immediately shipped him to Karen O'Connor: "Trainor and Teddy moved back to North Carolina in early 2005 and within days Norman informed her Teddy would be returning to the O'Connor's farm," states the article.

That is FALSE.

Immediately after the Georgia CIC**, I told Christan I could not financially support her efforts with Teddy any more. A few weeks after that (and I am leaving out details for Christan's sake here, not mine), I brought Teddy home. As the Eventing magazine article states, that was in the spring of 2005.

While Teddy was home, I used hunter rider Holly Dometrorch of Nebulon, NC, to school him. She told me she knew Darren Chiachia, so it was my hope that she might help me get Teddy sold through that contact. She was also riding another pony for me at the time. Also during that time, 11-year-old, Katrina Grant, exercised Teddy for me at home. Here is a picture of her riding him: http://www.sportponiesunlimited.com/Teddy_Before_Eventing.html. Katrina is now a working student with Amanda Miller in North Carolina. And also during that time, I called several other BNTs about Teddy, including Buck Davidson, who was even quoted in another article (in The Chronicle, IIRC) about that fact--all of which is irrefutable proof that Teddy hardly went straight from Christan to Karen.

Moreover, because I am in business not in play about breeding these ponies, I have documentation ranging from credit card receipts to bills to phone records to even a copy of the letter I sent to Karen via Priority Mail in an attempt to get her to respond to my unanswered, summer-long telephone queries. It was not until the early fall of 2005 that I trailered Teddy up to Karen's place in Virginia.

In addition, and also because I am in business, let me make it clear through this post that Christan Trainor never rode ANY of Teddy's FULL SIBLINGS except the one she bought and so she is no judge whatsoever of their qualities. Her statement in the article that "Teddy's other siblings haven't been so much like him. Coda is very forward and quick. He's really tuned in" is an outrageously unprofessional and insensitive reflection on my breeding program, feeding into what I've said many times makes me very angry: the idea that Teddy was some kind of freak instead of the product of a breeding program I've spent a friggin' LIFETIME developing!!!

I am a breeder. I produce ponies of a certain quality and nature INTENTIONALLY. As I've said to many people often, meet Teddy's dam--or, better still, try handling her--and you'll damn well know where a heck of a lot of his forwardness, quickness and "tuned-ness" comes from! Christan Trainor's statement illustrates only that she knows NOTHING of what produced the traits Teddy had.

Moreover, Christan has not ridden Teddy's full sister Catahoula, whom Karen will tell you has some traits (her canter and her self-carriage) that are even BETTER than Teddy's. Christan has not ridden Cooper, whom Imtiaz Anees will tell you can "tune in" to his rider just FINE and is mighty quick, too! Christan never even met Theoretical, the sire of the only other Teddy relatives she actually did ride (Cory and Robbie, both of whom became winning hunter ponies)! And Christan has not ridden Kevlar, whom a slew of riders he's turned into lawn darts would attest is extremely athletic, forward and mighty damn quick. In fact, HERE is a video of Kevvie taken just the other day that should illustrate a heck of a lot about where MY judgment has led MY breeding program and MY stock: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IGLO_7BC1s. Anyone who wants to sprout at opinion of my program is quite welcome to do so, but check your FACTS first!!!

I expect Christan to correct the record and apologize to me publicly. I have called Eventing magazine and made my feelings about this clear. I will end this by stating what I have been saying far too much lately: I love this sport, but the people in it need to grow the f&*^ up and learn what it means to be a professional or the sport will cease to exist except among the very wealthy few.

Im so sorry this happened to you.. I hope it all gets worked out!!

[Equibrit]

PWynn - you need your own article !!

[Eventfan4LIFE]

I am spending way too much time following this thread but...
What I got from the article was that yes, Christen was upset at losing Teddy. Was she supposed to click her heels and skip off down the road throwing daisies? I frankly thought this article gave some honest insight into what a rider goes through when a horse they have brought up through the ranks is taken away. Kudos to Christen for being honest and bigger kudos for not giving up on riding! What ever happened to Teddy's previous rider, Nicole Villers? Is she still in the sport?

[LexInVA]

I was just reading today the article in the COTH December Pony Breeding Issue where almost the entire atricle about you was from Christan's statements. ALL of these statements were glowing and positive about your breeding program, and your horses, and frankly, made YOU look pretty darn good. I don't see anything in the current USEA Article that makes you look negative or your breeding program. I can only imagine that Christan would never say something that glowing about you in one article and be negative in another. Maybe it is the interpretation of the reader.

I think personal interpretation does have a great deal to do with it. Many of the articles I have read give the impression (not from what Christan or P.Wynn or Karen has said in those articles but rather how the information is presented by the person writer) that Karen did in fact get Teddy because she is an accomplished rider. P.Wynn did in fact lay out the specifics (or at least as much as was needed to set the record straight from what I remember) on this very forum when people started to wonder about the matter of changing riders. However, because the publications do not concern themselves with the exact specifics of what is being discussed in the articles, personal interpretation is very much a factor in this, especially when there isn't really any contrary or more specific information readily available. That being said, I think P.Wynn should write them a stern letter correcting the article and Christan should do the same if she feels it is appropriate for her to do so. As for whatever Christan said or implied about P.Wynn's breeding program or business, I don't know anything about that because I don't have the article in front of me. That being said, I really don't think Christan would suddenly go meanie-poohead on P.Wynn from how she has praised her in the past. Anyway, is this article online yet?

[Eventer55]

Rut roh! :eek:


Oh my god, that just made my day:lol::lol::lol:

[Jaegermonster]

Teddy was first brought to Karen's attention when Christan went there as a working student. So it was no accident nor was it the luck of the draw that she happened to get the ride. There was some behind the scenes wrangling there.

[Ajierene]

Pwynn - you are reading WAY to much into this.

A little anecdote. I used to sell flooring. For a rather long time, I sold flooring. As a result, I learned a lot about flooring. As a result, I noticed things other people did not. A friend of mine and coworker and I entered a very nice country club for the store's Christmas party. Ten minute discussion on the carpet and how 'obvious' the seam was and what a bad job it was ensued. People had no clue what we were talking about and looked at us funny. Magazine articles about flooring, different vendors, etc. were the topic of conversation for us. Other people that knew about flooring, contractors and other sales people, would look at us funny. Other sales people did not care and contractors did not have time to bother with articles, but do their job.

The correlation? You are close to this, you read the article from a certain perspective and thought process. The VAST majority of people that get this magazine (yeah, I'm not one of them because my current finances cannot justify this expense) are going to read it thinking, wow, Teddy, miss him. Most of the pros that know are either going to skim it and miss much, if not all of what you are ranting about, or not read it at all. Most people who do know and read it are going to just assume that editing made the article read the way it did, not that you or Christan or bad people.

What IS going to happen are people reading this rant are going to tend towards thinking that you are a spoiled brat that cannot stand to have anything negative said or implied about you and your breeding program. No matter what you do, someone is not going to like it and somewhere you are going to be seen in a less than favorable light. Such is being a person, let alone a business person.

EDIT: WOW, I started writing this after I read post #39....gonna be one of 'those' threads....

[LexInVA]

Oh my god, that just made my day:lol::lol::lol:

I don't like seeing P.Wynn angry. It makes me sad. :cry:

[SevenDogs]

... meanie-poohead and rut roh!

:lol: :lol: :lol: Both terms are priceless! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[ThroughGuru]

How are Teddy's siblings doing? Didn't Catahoula go from KO to some unknown rider and promptly get eliminated at Ocala? Are these ponies really suitable for children? Who is the target audience for your breeding program - is it children or adults? Amateurs or professionals?

[TheBrightSide06]

Um, I didn't expect to hear Pwynn say all of that. For so long I have looked up to her for breeding such good ponies, but then saying things like this?
If CT said that, so what? Be bigger than her. Don't stoop to a lower level. But you already have in saying things like "screw you" when people care. We all have a right to our own opinions and don't diss people because they say something that you think the opposite of..
This scared me a bit...

[sidepasser]

Sometimes we have to be thankful for what we have, forgive those that might have insulted us, and rise above the fray.

Teddy is THE pony who rocked the horse world, despite the conflict..can't we leave it that way?

[2LaZ2race]

I still think a lot of this is just scandal. We're going to see this story on Perez Hilton next... :eek:

Magazines have to sell copies (or get online views) which means they have to get people to read them. They probably juiced the story up a bit to add more drama.

IF that's not the case and there has been some sort of feud brewing between PWynn and CT then the fact that EITHER party took it public is unfortunate.

[spina]

Makes me sad, too. Pwynn, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here, and assume you just had a really bad day.
I don't think anyone questions the quality of a breeding program that produces the likes of Teddy. Give yourself a little more credit, give the rest of us a little more credit, take a deep breath and a shot of regumate and consider an apology to those whom you may have offended with this out-of-character rant.

[Eventfan4LIFE]

Why would you give someone who has just told the entire board "SCREW YOU" the benefit of the doubt? And she's the one demanding a public apology from CT?

[TheBrightSide06]

I agree w/ you Eventfan. Who owes who a public apology now? She is going to make a bad name and poor reputation for herself by bringing in more drama to the already-there drama...

[LexInVA]

Please don't think badly of P.Wynn. She has had to put up with a lot. From bratty self-serving students to the egotistical gasbags in the Eventing world who can't see past their own personal bubble, she has had to deal with a lot of crap from people in her daily life. She also has her family responsibilities and her business to run. I bet she's not even been to Disney World in twenty years and she lives 90 minutes from the Magic Kingdom! I think she deserves some sympathy and understanding here even if she sounds like she's about to turn your head into a work of macabre abstract art by embedding a frying pan in your skull. I'm not saying her behavior is acceptable or anything. She is as human as the rest of us.

[takethestage]

Oh no, oh no. :(

I have not read the article, nor have I in-depth knowledge of this whole ordeal, but what I do know is that Pwynn did a stellar job in breeding Teddy, Christan did a stellar job in taking Teddy to the Advanced level, and Karen did a stellar job in taking Teddy to Rolex. It's a shame that petty human bickering about technicalities and editorializing of an article is centered around a superstar who clearly does not deserve any tarnish on his name. While I don't think it was very tactful, nor professional, to create a trainwreck via COTH, Pwynn certainly is entitled to her free speech. As the breeder and owner of Teddy, it was her prerogative to do with her pony as she pleased, but it is also Christan's choice to say what she would like about the situation. There's no sense in ruining memories and relationships, both personal and business, over silly words.

[kb]

Any chance the article could have misrepresented CT's statements....much like they did some of the facts?

If it were me, I would have called her first and let her tell her side of the story before ranting on a public forum. But that is just me.....

[DLee]

Didn't Karen pretty much agree to take on Teddy at no charge? Hence the syndication? After all, that was the driving force behind the decision, not having the funds to keep Teddy going I think.
But I could be totally off base.

[goodymar1188]

Before everyone jumps on the defense of PWynn, please READ the article...there is nothing negative or derogatory, or defaming in it. It is a very pleasant, nice article. No one said anything uncalled for about anything. The OP is over-reacting, and it is a shame that she went off the deep end with this one.

[magnolia73]

At what point did she insult your horses? Are they all really like Teddy? It's not like she said they were a bunch of ill bred cows. She just said the ones she sat on weren't Teddy.

You might consider counseling or another line of work. You don't like hunters. You sound frothy about eventing. Dressage? Seriously- you have a business. Act professional. Put on your big girl pants, write a letter to the editor and maybe call the trainer.

[LexInVA]

Is this article online?

[magnolia73]

And Christan has not ridden Kevlar, whom a slew of riders he's turned into lawn darts would attest is extremely athletic, forward and mighty damn quick.

Are you PROUD that you bred a horse that lawn darts people? Who is your buyer? People who like to fall off?

[Ajierene]

Is this article online?

I am surfing as best I can and cannot find it yet. I did find an article on USEA where Christan Trainor notes how glad she was to work with Teddy and what a great pony his full brother is and how great Pwynn's breeding program is....

http://useventing.com/blog/?p=132

It is from Feb 2008...so maybe something changed since then?

[mbarrett]

After reading a rant like that, I would seriously reconsider doing business with a professional who acts/talks like that. You just may have turned off a potential customer and their pocketbook has slammed shut.

Professionals have to have a thick skin. The best advertising is your success in your field. A profanity laced post on COTH is not the best way to advertise your business.

[OptimumTime]

Is this article online?

No, the article was in the latest issue of Eventing USA. I'm sure it was a complete misunderstanding and the magazine would publish a Letter to the Editor (if written) in order to clarify Christan's statement. I seriously doubt they would purposely want to put P.Wynn or Christan in a bad light - and most certainly the editors would be very embarrassed if they found out they printed a mistake. It's not likely that they re-worded it to put a gossip spin on it.... it was probably a mistake, pure and simple.

[Jaegermonster]

At this point if anyone is owed an apology it's Christan. This is all so uncalled for.
This behavior is so high school it isn't funny, and Wynn is old enough that high school should be a distant memory. It's very sad.

[tja789]

I find PWynn's rant to be very strange. Could someone please explain why in the world it matters whether she took Teddy from Christian and turned him over to KOC immediately, or took Teddy and turned him over to KOC in a few months. Either way, it's sad that the talented rider who brought him up to advanced lost the ride due to lack of funding. But that's business I guess.

[Kanga]

EVERYONE!!!!

Please, Wynn has a right to be upset here......IT IS HER REPUTATION at stake and sometimes that is all we've got in this business!!!!!!

Perhaps Eventing should have run this article by Wynn first, she was the breeder of the most spectacular pony any of us will see in our lifetime.

[maxxtrot]

all i can say is WOW. i do know someone that did ride kev, he did in fact lawn dart her several times. rubbed off on trees, limbs ect.. had a good buck on him.
i too had a nice small horse that was the exact same way, freak jumper, great mover, but had to be sold to a pro. not an ammy ride. and i would think a pony would be even harder to sell. it took me 2 yrs. to sell that horse, but he is thriving in an ammy home now.
wynn, i think you do a wonderful job with your ponies, you are more involved than most owners, but i am shocked at the post you have written and the tone of them. the people that know what they are doing, know that you are trying to bred the best sport ponies you can, by writting the way you did, i just hope it has not turned some people off of your program. with the money the way it is, we as breeders, riders, parents,coach's,pro's and ammy's alike need to stick together not be bashing each other. i hope this all gets worked out.

[Jaegermonster]

EVERYONE!!!!

Please, Wynn has a right to be upset here......IT IS HER REPUTATION at stake and sometimes that is all we've got in this business!!!!!!

Perhaps Eventing should have run this article by Wynn first, she was the breeder of the most spectacular pony any of us will see in our lifetime.

I don't think anyone has dismissed Wynn's "right" to be upset, although many of us don't see exactly what it is that she is so upset about. Many of us think that she is overreacting.
What many have taken issue with is the crass and unprofessional way in which she has chosen to address it. Airing ones dirty laundry and then dragging it up and down the street is never a good way to do business. This should have been handled privately between Christan and Wynn and then maybe a letter to the editor sent to the magazine, as someone else posted. Now even people who don't get the magazine and would have never even heard of this at all sure have seen Wynn's unprofessional rants and screams on a public forum.

[Eventfan4LIFE]

[QUOTE=Kanga;3908967
Perhaps Eventing should have run this article by Wynn first, she was the breeder of the most spectacular pony any of us will see in our lifetime.[/QUOTE]

You are joking, right?

[Evalee Hunter]

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

--From Hamlet (III, ii, 239)

[deltawave]

I bet she's not even been to Disney World in twenty years and she lives 90 minutes from the Magic Kingdom!Oh DEAR. How very tragic. Well, that changes everything, I guess. This is a tale of real hardship, now that I see this. :p

If the OP's reputation were truly at stake, well, she's done a fine job buffing it here. :no:

[Ajierene]

Oh DEAR. How very tragic. Well, that changes everything, I guess. This is a tale of real hardship, now that I see this. :p

If the OP's reputation were truly at stake, well, she's done a fine job buffing it here. :no:

he he. I guess my friend in college had it really rough. She grew up in New York City and had NEVER ONCE been to the Statue of Liberty or Ellis Island. And It doesn't even cost anything to get on those islands!

Man, life sure is rough for P. Wynn!

[takeone4theteam]

Rut roh! :eek:

Oh my, there was some comedic timing there. I laughed quite hard!

[Gnep]

mbaret,
If I could afford that guy I would buy him, I love horses that give you a challenge, figure them out and than give them the chance to show what they can do.
The realy brilliant ones challenge you everyday.

PWY, I ride him for free, just for the fun of it.

[kt]

EVERYONE!!!!

Please, Wynn has a right to be upset here......IT IS HER REPUTATION at stake and sometimes that is all we've got in this business!!!!!!

Perhaps Eventing should have run this article by Wynn first, she was the breeder of the most spectacular pony any of us will see in our lifetime.



The ironic thing is that this thread is so ugly it's likely done way worse to her reputation than any reading between the lines of a magazine article. As someone else suggested, perhaps a polite but clear letter to the editor of the magazine would have been a better and more professional move. Clearly there was some dirty laundry lurking in the partnership between Wynn and CT... and I could have lived without hearing about it.

[2LaZ2race]

If the OP's reputation were truly at stake, well, she's done a fine job buffing it here. :no:

truth. whether she's justified or not to be mad I would seriously be afraid to buy a pony from her at the chance I would do something she didn't approve of and publicly bash me!

bad situation for everyone :no:

[caffeinated]

EVERYONE!!!!

Please, Wynn has a right to be upset here......IT IS HER REPUTATION at stake and sometimes that is all we've got in this business!!!!!!


That's right. Reputation is everything in the horse business. Problem is, I think her post here did more to damage that than anything Christan said in the article.

[joharavhf]

That's right. Reputation is everything in the horse business. Problem is, I think her post here did more to damage that than anything Christan said in the article.

I agree completely. As I am just getting back to the eventing scene, I didn't even know that pwynn was Teddy's breeder...but had found her website and DEFINITELY knew who Teddy was! Unfortunately I got a bad taste in my mouth from this post - and for sure I would think twice before purchasing a horse from her in the future.

[Pferd51]

Since I am not in a position to judge the accuracy of the statements in the article and posts, the only thing I can see that has been set straight is that in fact bad feelings about the Teddy transition have been stewing for years, despite the sunny stories published previously. This is hardly surprising, but I guess in an attempt to make the Teddy story as glorious as possible, attempts were made to suppress this sad truth. No more.

[goodymar1188]

How is Christan bashing her reputation? I must really be missing the boat here, because there is nothing I can see from the article that is damaging to her reputation. That is my whole issue here, because after reading the article, her post sounds crazy!!!

[EventerAJ]

This topic has probably done far more damage than the article itself.


Slight derailment but... I don't think calling Teddy a "freak" is derogatory in any way. ANY animal that can successfully compete at the Advanced level is a freak. It ISN'T common, isn't normal... that's what makes it special. Some would say the very best racehorses are "freaks." Every TB breeder is trying to get that next Derby winner; 40,000 horses a year, and only 20 will be good enough to even get in the gate. You can have the best breeding program in the world, but the "freaks" will always be few and far between. Try your best to create them, but they are rare gifts. That is not knocking the rest of a breeding program, just admitting that lightning comes in a bottle... not an oil tanker. ;)

[flyingchange]

I'm going to hide behind the manure pile with Reed. O.M.G. Somebody needs to get back on their meds.

[LLDM]

From the bits and pieces I've heard over the years, this "drama" has been going on for a while.

I remember CT coming on this board and going on and on about how she never got any credit for Teddy. Wynn has bent over backwards to make sure she *has* gotten credit. I don't blame her for being pissed off now.

The reason I would be upset (if I were Pwynn) about how the time-line went is that it might really make future deals with other professionals difficult if Pwynn is made out to be the type that jerks horses (okay, ponies) out from under riders the second a better deal comes along.

I think the reason Pwynn is ranting is that she's thought she's put this to bed with all the other players before, but it keeps coming back like a bad penny. Insult to injury that it's in the USEA magazine - which goes to *everyone* in the business. Teddy is gone and still *this* just keeps on coming up. I might just be head banging too.

SCFarm

[fooler]

I don't think anyone has dismissed Wynn's "right" to be upset, although many of us don't see exactly what it is that she is so upset about. Many of us think that she is overreacting.
What many have taken issue with is the crass and unprofessional way in which she has chosen to address it. Airing ones dirty laundry and then dragging it up and down the street is never a good way to do business. This should have been handled privately between Christan and Wynn and then maybe a letter to the editor sent to the magazine, as someone else posted. Now even people who don't get the magazine and would have never even heard of this at all sure have seen Wynn's unprofessional rants and screams on a public forum.

Totally agree. There is alot of truth to the old saying: "Write a letter when angry, but do not release the letter until the next day AFTER REVIEWING YOUR WORDS". CAPS are intentional.

[Chall]

I hope the OP has a better day tomorrow. Everyone has a bad day and some "days" last longer than just one day. I also heard a kind of prayer somewhere in there that finances pick up. So here is a prayer that they do, for everyone that needs it :)

[Dash of Class]

Sounds like someone is a little testy that she is not the center of attention in this article.

Guess what, the article is about the young lady, not you Ms. Norman. She is entitled to her opinions, as are you. She did nothing wrong. If anything, she learned the harsh realities of being a professional in the equine industry. She worked very hard and had a nice horse is taken away from her. Granted she did not own the pony, but she did a lot of work to get it to the top. Too bad she didn't get the chance to ride the pony at Rolex.

Sounds like she has moved on.

Really, Ms. Norman, show some class. Tsk, Tsk.

[Jaegermonster]

I remember CT coming on this board and going on and on about how she never got any credit for Teddy. Wynn has bent over backwards to make sure she *has* gotten credit. I don't blame her for being pissed off now.

The reason I would be upset (if I were Pwynn) about how the time-line went is that it might really make future deals with other professionals difficult if Pwynn is made out to be the type that jerks horses (okay, ponies) out from under riders the second a better deal comes along.

I think the reason Pwynn is ranting is that she's thought she's put this to bed with all the other players before, but it keeps coming back like a bad penny. Insult to injury that it's in the USEA magazine - which goes to *everyone* in the business. Teddy is gone and still *this* just keeps on coming up. I might just be head banging too.

SCFarm

CT hardly went "on and on" I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. It was mentioned, but usually only when brought up by others and Christan has been nothing but professional always and has not aired any dirty laundry ever. Christan did a fabulous job with Teddy and rightly so deserved some of the credit for his success, along with others who rode him before Karen even knew he was alive. And she only knew about the horse thanks to Christan, when she went there as a working student.

It's fine for Wynn to feel she has been "wronged" or whatever else she thinks, but there is a better and more appropriate way to address it. As others have said, she has done more damage here with her own words and her own little tantrum than anything Christan could ever say or do or anyone else could ever write.
This whole rant was childish, immature and unprofessional. Period. There is no other way to describe it.

[Tamara in TN]

The reason I would be upset (if I were Pwynn) about how the time-line went is that it might really make future deals with other professionals difficult if Pwynn is made out to be the type that jerks horses (okay, ponies) out from under riders the second a better deal comes along.



SCFarmfolks may flame away at me and say 'It's all business" but after over a decade of of twisted stories and serial liars and the medically certifiable, hearing my own taining techniques quoted back to me as the words of others and NEVER getting credit for the animals I have either bred or trained... AND...

<sigggggggggggggghhhhh>

I just cannot be mad at Wynn.....sorry

pm me Wynn if you want an ear...I'll listen :)

best

[Shortstroke]

I have been to Disney World several times and I found it extremely stressful. In fact, I would say it is comparable to a h/j warm-up ring. I don't think the OP has missed a thing by not jumping in - excuse me I meant visiting - there. I have spent so much time in h/j warm-up rings, I wonder if it didn't make me slightly dazed and perhaps I have wandered from one thread to another without realizing it...

[takeone4theteam]

Eventfan,

Don't apologize! The video I posted is of Teddy,s little brother Theodore al Coda, who I purchased from Wynn last February. He was unbroke but is going to his first show on Thursday. Thought people might like to see the similarities and the early videos. Sorry if it was confusing. And yes, money is always a factor and I don't doubt that Teddy would not have been the celebrity he was if Karen hadn't ridden him. I just hope his little brother can follow in his shoes,

Christan


I don't see Christan bashing anyone here quote above was in another thread asking why Teddy was no longer with Christan

[EventerAJ]

LOL Shortstroke!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Sugarbrook]

I am reading along.

[LLDM]

Okay, so maybe "on and on" is a bit of an exaggeration, but when I first saw those posts I remember thinking, "welcome to the real world where no one else along the line ever gets any credit!" And thinking how nice it was how hard Pwynn then tried to give everyone the appropriate credit for Conner/Teddy.

Yes, it could have been addressed "better". But all of us, at some point, sometimes need to get rude to make a point if nothing else has worked. I have no idea if this was "that time" or not. But I guess it wouldn't surprise me. Rants may be unflattering to the ranter and rantee alike, but it doesn't make them inaccurate. It just makes them messy, uncomfortable and at times, controversial. Would addressing it in another national publication be more appropriate? We could have the war of the Teddy articles. At least this one is interactive! :lol:

SCFarm

[AiryFairy]

Not to be sarcastic, but is menopause involved here? Because that sounded like a raging hormonal rant if I've ever heard one. Could have been addressed privately, or with a redaction from the pub, but I think the OP needs to take a breath and apologize for the loss of control, that did her business no favors.

[Jaegermonster]

I think people need to go back and re read some, if not all, of the articles that have been written about Teddy and see exactly who is saying what about who. The proof is in the pudding and Christan has been nothing but positive and gracious, whereas others have persisted in saying some not very nice things about her. And again and again, she does not sink to their level.
And I think Wynn needs to conduct a memory review, there are others of hers that Christan has ridden and even trained that were siblings of Teddys, Wynn even posted a video of it on youtube at one time along with the one of Christan on Teddy when he was at the FL Horse Park with Karen. There have also been posts on this very board at various times about Teddy sibs that Christan rode and she stated nothing but nice things about them.
The OP is practicing revisionist history here and needs to stop pointing fingers. The whole Teddy move thing wasn't handled well, now it's coming out and the OP doesn't like it.
Too bad. Now grow up, put on your big girl panties and get over yourself. Be the professional you say you are and act like it.

[LexInVA]

This is getting confusing. Someone get me the chalk board so we can do the relationship chart or something.....

[enjoytheride]

Sounds like someone is a little testy that she is not the center of attention in this article.

Guess what, the article is about the young lady, not you Ms. Norman. She is entitled to her opinions, as are you. She did nothing wrong. If anything, she learned the harsh realities of being a professional in the equine industry. She worked very hard and had a nice horse is taken away from her. Granted she did not own the pony, but she did a lot of work to get it to the top. Too bad she didn't get the chance to ride the pony at Rolex.

Sounds like she has moved on.

Really, Ms. Norman, show some class. Tsk, Tsk.

Here is the entire reason Pwynn is angry (ignoring if she should have posted her rant in the first place). This ranting troll poster still thinks that pwynn TOOK the pony and not only that ROBBED her of the chance to ride at Rolex. COME ON.

Answer this - why is it anyone's business what someone does with their own pony? Why does the owner have to justify the reason they took the pony home, justify the reason they sent the pony to someone else, or justify anything?

I don't agree with ranting in public but this is all getting a little crazy. It's a horse, it's not like someone knocked you down a set of stairs and stole your gold medal.

[vineyridge]

Pwynn went through hell for Teddy. One assumes that she wouldn't have made all the difficult decisions that she did make just for one pony; he was a walking, running, jumping advertisement for her life's work.

Some things I seem to recall from previous posts. Teddy was initially a sales horse, but wouldn't sell. Pwynn and CT tried to work out a syndicate to help with the exorbitant costs (60k or so a year for a 4*/ International horse) when Teddy was with CT. When that didn't work out, Pwynn couldn't afford to do it all herself, so Teddy went out to pasture while other plans were made for his future.

In order for KOC to take the ride, I think Pwynn posted once that every penny that was made by The Pony--and she didn't say if that included endorsements--went elsewhere. Pwynn didn't see a dime. I would guess that BECAUSE Teddy became a KOC ride, the syndicate went through. If it weren't for that, he would never had shown at Rolex, never become America's pony throb, and never gone to the Pan Am Games.

Since he wasn't a moneymaker for her at all, his value and the reason that she persisted, was as advertisement for her breeding program and perhaps a sale later in which she might participate as part of the syndicate. Statements by anyone connected with Teddy that might, on a bad hair day, be considered derogatory about her other ponies and their quality, have obviously set her off, since her life's work is what's at stake.

I don't get the magazine, so can't say if the article is correct or not or if the comments about the other ponies would be read as derogatory.

But given the hell that Pwynn went through to get Teddy to the top of the eventing world, I can certainly understand the chip on her shoulder.

Everyone is entitled to be tetchy once in a while.

[Jaegermonster]

That's hardly a rant (re post by enjoy the ride) . (see wynn's posts for several examples of rants)
And that poster is hardly a troll. They didn't start the thread to nor are they trying to get everyone stirred up just for the sake of doing it. Wynn is doing a fine job of that all by herself.
And there was quite a bit of behind the scenes stuff to get Teddy away from Christan by Karen.

[caevent]

I wonder when Christan is going to chime in here.......or maybe she's smarter than that........

[Jaegermonster]

Not only is she smart, she has way too much class to dignify Wynn's ranting, screaming and cursing with a response.

[LexInVA]

I wonder when Christan is going to chime in here.......

Hopefully she will refrain from posting in this thread. This is a matter which needs to be worked out but not in the steel cage of death that is the COTH forum.

[EventFan]

Wow. I am truly disheartened as I read this thread. I have long admired Pwynn's breeding program and I was a mega-fan of Teddy. I have to believe there is a back story that only the concerned parties know, and that it's caused alot of pain to those involved.

This thread is accomplishing nothing, we need a re-do.

[enjoytheride]

I guess what I'm saying is I understand where both people are coming from. Christian obviously enjoyed the pony and did a good job with him and if there was behind the scenes movements to get the pony taken away (pwnn maintains that there was not) then she is justified with having her feelings hurt. But you can't really say someone robbed her of a chance to go to Rolex or someone took the pony away. There was a lease involved of some sort and the lease ended for some reason and the pony moved to someone else that the owner thought was in the pony's best interest.

It's the original rider's job to understand that the pony had to move on and the owner's job to make the original rider understand that the work they did allowed the pony to move on and to seek out the best person to advance the pony. If there was a problem with the way this worked out then shame on whichever party caused the problem.

[Jaegermonster]

I feel very safe in saying that we won't hear from Christan in this thread. She has too much class and is too professional to address the issues of others, and especially with those who are being so verbally abusive, in an open public forum.

[purplnurpl]

Please don't think badly of P.Wynn. She has had to put up with a lot. From bratty self-serving students to the egotistical gasbags in the Eventing world who can't see past their own personal bubble, she has had to deal with a lot of crap from people in her daily life. She also has her family responsibilities and her business to run. I bet she's not even been to Disney World in twenty years and she lives 90 minutes from the Magic Kingdom! I think she deserves some sympathy and understanding here even if she sounds like she's about to turn your head into a work of macabre abstract art by embedding a frying pan in your skull. I'm not saying her behavior is acceptable or anything. She is as human as the rest of us.

I think we are all feeling the pressure of a wonderful sport that has morphed into something we don't exactly love.

The article was icing on a poo cake. Though we are Eventers and tough cookies at that, we don't need any milk of magnesia added to the burning fire. Makes for one shitty cake.

[seeuatx]

Here is the entire reason Pwynn is angry (ignoring if she should have posted her rant in the first place). This ranting troll poster still thinks that pwynn TOOK the pony and not only that ROBBED her of the chance to ride at Rolex. COME ON.


Just like not winning the lotto has robbed me of my Rolex Glory :yes:. The deal came down to money. It always does. In the end it was more economically feasible for the OWNER to move the horse from Christan's. Then a deal was worked out and he went to the OC's. It's business people. Horses come and go from trainer's all the time... that's how the horse world works. Weren't people complaining several months ago about Lainey Ashker and accusing her of whining that she could not keep that one horse...?

[nypony]

I have always enjoyed PWynn's posts on this board and her website. It's obvious that she is passionate about her breeding program. The loss of Teddy must remain incredibly painful for her. Obviously, she worked tirelessly to see him reach his full potential. It saddens me to see her so upset in her original post. Many posters are highly critical of her overreaction to the CT article. Yet, feel entitled to attack her livelihood - including her website design, ponies and professionalism. I hope PWynn continues to have great success in breeding ponies with huge hearts & strides, that she & CT can have a private sitdown and that tomorrow looks a bit brighter.

[JER]

If the end result is burned bridges, mutual distrust and lingering bitterness, is making it to the top of the sport really worth it?

[LLDM]

Well, there are ranters, the passive/aggressives, the smile-in-your-face-while-stabbing-you-in-the-back types, the tell-you-to-go-to-he!!-and-make-you-glad-to types, and more. Me, I tend to be a ranter. But at least people know exactly where I stand. ;)

Maybe it is KOC that is really the one being "dissed" by this implication in the article and is also being too "professional" to respond. But if I were collateral damage in professional rider rivalry and my business were taking a hit - including my sale horses (that I bred myself for generations) , I doubt I would be so professional as to rise above it. At least she didn't threaten to sue! LOL!!!!!

SCFarm

[fooler]

I believe it is time to take this thread down.

P.Wynn has a right to her opinion and to be respected. This is not the time nor place for this discussion.

Wynn - take a step back and think about this. Then work this out with Christain. It sounds like most everyone on the boards think well of both of you and we have no real desire to be part of this train wreck.

Blessings and Peace on Both of You!

[Jaegermonster]

At least she didn't threaten to sue! LOL!!!!!

SCFarm

How do you know she didn't?

[One Star]

How are Teddy's siblings doing? Didn't Catahoula go from KO to some unknown rider and promptly get eliminated at Ocala? Are these ponies really suitable for children? Who is the target audience for your breeding program - is it children or adults? Amateurs or professionals?

Missy Miller is hardly some unknown rider. :confused:

[Jaegermonster]

I believe it is time to take this thread down.

P.Wynn has a right to her opinion and to be respected. This is not the time nor place for this discussion.

!


Part A) Why? because Wynn made an a$% of herself?


Part A&B) Wynn was the one who brought it here, she should have thought about that before. She wanted to make sure everyone knows the "truth". Looks like she got what she wanted.

[fooler]

Part A) Why? because Wynn made an a$% of herself?


Part A&B) Wynn was the one who brought it here, she should have thought about that before. She wanted to make sure everyone knows the "truth". Looks like she got what she wanted.


True, and now periphal individuals are being brought into the 'discussion'. Maybe I am getting old & grumpy but this has gone from somewhat interesting to very sad, for all parties involved.

[Classic Melody]

This wouldn't be the first time that the Eventing USA magazine has pissed off people with subpar reporting and editing. See the previous issue and the story about Cayla Kitayama. But this happens when a publication has limited resources at its disposal.

And as some wise person once said, "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

I hope for everyone's sake that this thread disappears quickly.

I miss Teddy.

[NeverTime]

This wouldn't be the first time that the Eventing USA magazine has pissed off people with subpar reporting and editing. See the previous issue and the story about Cayla Kitayama. But this happens when a publication has limited resources at its disposal.

I haven't seen the article yet, but I'm curious, particularly given all the conflicting accounts that already have appeared on this thread, how you can so easily assume that this whole conflict - which seems to have been brewing for years between the people involved - was created in one article solely through the "subpar reporting and editing" of the magazine?

[Classic Melody]

I haven't seen the article yet, but I'm curious, particularly given all the conflicting accounts that already have appeared on this thread, how you can so easily assume that this whole conflict - which seems to have been brewing for years between the people involved - was created in one article solely through the "subpar reporting and editing" of the magazine?

As far as I can tell, there are three things going on here.

1. PWynn quotes directly only one sentence of the article:

"In the article in this month's Eventing magazine featuring Christan Trainor and Theodore O'Connor, Christan states that I took Teddy away from her and immediately shipped him to Karen O'Connor: "Trainor and Teddy moved back to North Carolina in early 2005 and within days Norman informed her Teddy would be returning to the O'Connor's farm," states the article."

Note the item she quotes is NOT a direct quote from Christan, even though she says it is ("Christan states"), but a paraphrase by the author - a slippery space in which a lot of interpretation can happen, from speaker to reporter and from written page to reader.

2. The sentence appears to be genuinely incorrect. Whether Christan told the reporter wrong or the reporter described it wrong is unclear.

3. Pwynn immediately seizes on this sentence and blames Christan for a whole host of unspoken things. Yes, obviously there has been bad blood, but that has been well concealed until now (at least to me, a Pwnn and Teddy and - why not! - Christan fan). It just took one sloppy piece of reporting to make it come out.

You're right, it's possible that Christan did tell the reporter the wrong information. I just really doubt it. It's easy for writers to miss a fact that seems relatively inconsequential - say, what month a horse moved from point A to point B four years ago - but it means to the world to the people in the article. A great reporter is aware of this every single moment of every day - and would not ascribe action or put words into Pwynn's mouth without interviewing her as well for the article.

But there are few great reporters, and Eventing USA is a trade publication, not exactly the Washington Post.

[Moderator 1]

The OP has clarified her perspective on this article at length and there has been ample opportunity for subsequent commentary. This situation is better addressed directly with the publication and individuals involved.

Thanks,
Mod 1