Feeding a more natural diet. How to start?

[Maybeapril]

In another thread I read about somebody feeding their horses ingredients like oats, beet pulp etc. instead of pellets or sweet feed. I like this idea because I feed my family healthy food and try not to give them things that are processed, so I'm wondering about doing this with my horses. I wouldn't even know where to begin. I am currently feeding Nutrena Safe Choice. Where and how would I begin a new feeding program? I have a 17.1 hand TB draftX and a mini donkey. I only feed the donkey a handful so he doesn't feel left out. What kind of a mixture would I give them?

[deltawave]

Depends on what's in the hay they're getting, how hard they're working, and whether they have any specific nutritional problems. Most horses, unless they're really working hard OR the hay is sub-par, could probably get along fine with just hay, maybe a little something for extra protein or fat, and the vitamins/minerals/amino acids that fill out the program.

I'd suggest the book "Beyond the Hay Days" by Rex Ewing (2nd ed is better) for a good hay-based theoretical feeding book. IMO you can't go wrong with good hay, some oats, and maybe a bit of something for shiny coats like flax seed, but that assumes you know what's in the hay and that it's not horribly deficient.

[Maybeapril]

The donkey does nothing and the horse is only sound at the walk. I'm starting a rehab program with him, walking gradually adding more time until we get to 45 minutes and then maybe add trotting if he looks good, the trotting won't even be until possibly June. So he really isn't doing much either. They get free choice grass hay and I don't know the nutritional value of it. They are outside 24/7.

[Maybeapril]

What's the best way to go about getting hay analyzed? I just looked up that book on Amazon. I'm going to go order that now, it looks great.

[Georgiatrails]

Hi, You could check out this website as well. Great information on it

http://www.safergrass.org/

and here's the site explaining how you could test your hay

http://www.safergrass.org/pdf/Haytesting.pdf

Hope this helps. There is a lot to learn when it comes to nutrition, not only for us, but our animals as well. I think you're doing a good thing by looking into this.

[Doodlebug1]

Living on forage, ideally fed from ground level is the most natural way to go. My horses are in regular work, including hunting maybe twice a month and are fine. They are at grass about 13 hours a day and have ad lib haylage the rest of the time. However the climate in the UK may be kinder than where you are - I forgot to notice which state you are from.

It is important that you get the hay analysed for vitamin/mineral deficiencies and you supplement the diet accordingly. You can normally ask at your local farm supplies store. Hay may smell sweet but it is only as good as the soil the grass was grown in.

Be aware though that what is organic and made from 'natural' ingredients isn't necessarily natural. For example natural glucosamine and chondritin supplements are made from either shark cartilage or shrimp shells - how many horses do you know that would chose to eat fish?!

If you need more energy, thy alfalfa or some other higher energy fibre, you can also try alfalfa chaff with additional oil (veg oil is fine - oil that has had additives added to make it last longer can be good - the additive is vitamin E!). This is because if you add oats etc, you will then skew the nutritional balance of what you have had analysed, they can particularly skew the calcium/phosphorous ratio.

Also, if you need to add supplements/balancers try to add these to some chaff so they are measurable - vitamin blocks/salt licks are hard to monitor the uptake reliably.

[sublimequine]

To be honest, I roll my eyes at folks who shun pelleted feeds or textured sweet feeds, and say that they feed a MUCH BETTER natural diet of oats, flax, beep, boss, etc, etc, etc.

Ever take a look at a bag of pelleted feed? It's often times the same or similar, only ground up and pelleted! :lol:

Unprocessed stuff isn't always healthier. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. It all depends. :)

That being said, I am a fan of oats. That's what my mare gets, along with a vit/min supp.

[manyspots]

My gelding, who was boarded since I bought him from the BO in 2004, was always on sweet feed and oats (per the BO/feed plan offered by farm). I brought him home and switched him to:

Beet Pulp
Alfalfa Pellets
Rice Bran (for extra fat)
multivitamin supplement

I was continuing the oats but stopped because I wanted to gain the lowest NSC as possible. This works for him, keeps the wieght on and keeps his energy level down. In addition to these "meal" he gets close to free choice grass hay. I have never had my hay tested, as blood work has been good and my horses are in great health.

[Daydream Believer]

To be honest, I roll my eyes at folks who shun pelleted feeds or textured sweet feeds, and say that they feed a MUCH BETTER natural diet of oats, flax, beep, boss, etc, etc, etc.

Ever take a look at a bag of pelleted feed? It's often times the same or similar, only ground up and pelleted! :lol:



That's funny as I roll my eyes every time someone insists that a horse needs a ration balancer or some sort of high tech bag of feed that costs $30. ;) If you want to pay high dollars for fillers, go for it! Some of us prefer to feed whole ingredients and not heavily processed ingredients or fillers sweetened with molasses fortified by some feed company. It goes both ways and sometimes it's easier to custom fit a diet by using whole ingredients and targeted supplementation.

[sublimequine]

That's funny as I roll my eyes every time someone insists that a horse needs a ration balancer or some sort of high tech bag of feed that costs $30. ;) If you want to pay high dollars for fillers, go for it! Some of us prefer to feed whole ingredients and not heavily processed ingredients or fillers sweetened with molasses fortified by some feed company. It goes both ways and sometimes it's easier to custom fit a diet by using whole ingredients and targeted supplementation.

Way to only quote part of my post. The second part basically agreed with what you're saying. :rolleyes:

Pelleted, processed feeds work for some. Some, it doesn't. Unprocessed feedstuffs work for some. Some, they don't.

And also, please point to the spot where I said anything about a horse needs ration balancers or expensive processed feeds.

Did ya also miss the part where I said I feed plain oats myself??? :lol:

[Daydream Believer]

Way to only quote part of my post. The second part basically agreed with what you're saying. :rolleyes:

Pelleted, processed feeds work for some. Some, it doesn't. Unprocessed feedstuffs work for some. Some, they don't.

And also, please point to the spot where I said anything about a horse needs ration balancers or expensive processed feeds.

Did ya also miss the part where I said I feed plain oats myself??? :lol:

Good grief don't take it personally and no you did not say anything about RB's. I was commenting on the trend on this forum to recommend a RB as a solution for all horses practically. If you don't believe me, start watching for it.:lol:

Pelleted feeds are not all created equal either...there is quite a variety in ingredients and quality. I don't agree that the typical ingredients in some like soy hulls, distiller dried grains, molasses, plant by products, wheat middlings, etc... are quite the same as feeding whole oats, unsweetened beet pulp, flax, or rice bran. It's like comparing a TV dinner or Hamburger Helper with a made from scratch homemade dinner.

[sublimequine]

Good grief don't take it personally and no you did not say anything about RB's. I was commenting on the trend on this forum to recommend a RB as a solution for all horses practically. If you don't believe me, start watching for it.:lol:

Pelleted feeds are not all created equal either...there is quite a variety in ingredients and quality. I don't agree that the typical ingredients in some like soy hulls, distiller dried grains, molasses, plant by products, wheat middlings, etc... are quite the same as feeding whole oats, unsweetened beet pulp, flax, or rice bran. It's like comparing a TV dinner or Hamburger Helper with a made from scratch homemade dinner.

Why would you quote me, then start talking about trends on the board that I don't even subscribe to? :confused:

I never said all pelleted feeds are the same, either. But pelleting is just that, a form of processing. It says NOTHING about the content of the feed.

And FWIW, I think ration balancers are the trend of the month anyways. My mare's never been on one and has somehow survived. :lol:

[Daydream Believer]

Why would you quote me, then start talking about trends on the board that I don't even subscribe to? :confused:

Ok :confused: I'm sorry but I was not saying you subscribe to anything. Peace and long life...I was not trying to put words in your mouth.

I never said all pelleted feeds are the same, either. But pelleting is just that, a form of processing. It says NOTHING about the content of the feed.

We agree on that much. :yes: It really is hard to find a pelleted commerical feed without some form of filler though. Many have molasses added also.

And FWIW, I think ration balancers are the trend of the month anyways. My mare's never been on one and has somehow survived.

I agree again. Mine were on one and I did not care for the results at all.

[deltawave]

Ration balancer user here. Didn't know we were a cult. :lol: I feed them PURELY for convenience. All the "stuff" in one bag, no mixing, no matching, no adding or subtracting, AND it happens to work for my small herd. I've been there, done that with the "little of this, little of that" method and while that's fun, it does age rather quickly. :) I also like to keep things V-E-R-Y simple in case someone else (like my non-horsey husband or 8yo kid) has to feed for me. I'm not afraid of mystery ingredients, I do not believe that every micronutrient has to be measured to the nanogram, and although I think whole grains and mix-it-yourself rations are JUST FINE, I'm not needing to do that now, tra la. Would if I had to, prefer not to. ;)

To the OP, you can have your hay analyzed through www.equi-analytical.com (http://www.equi-analytical.com). Costs less than $30, money WELL spent, IMO. :yes:

[monstrpony]

I'm a long time user and believer in beet pulp. Then, there was a shortage last fall, and when I finally got some more, it was so dusty and dirty that I had to seive it before putting it in my soaking bucket. Now I have a pile of dirt and beet pulp fines in the flower bed below my porch ... Alfalfa pellets, at my local feed store, are as expensive as the prepared feed, and tend to be dusty.

Heck, why not let TC do this for me? I would know if they didn't because my feed would have that characteristic crunch from gritty dirt in the feed; it does not.

[Pancakes]

The most "natural" diet you can give a horse is just good quality hay, ad lib. Get it analyzed, and see if it matches up to their daily requirements (NRC tables/books should be available through your local cooperative extension or your vet). If not, then supplement where needed. The simpler and more forage-based you can keep their diet, the better. The good hay is the basis, and everything else should be built from the ground up.

[katarine]

Lot's of useless eyerolling going on here. Can I join in, and must admit I roll my eyes at the endless list of threads about 'tell me all about ___supplement!' yawny yawn yawn. Especially for horses that are fine, fat and sassy, work an hour here and there, and otherwise nap and fart. They don't NEED supplements.

Decent quality hay is what you ought to feed, to get to the OPs question. Test it if you will, or rotate your sources to replicate horses migrating across the countryside if that helps your heart ;) The bulk of a healthy horse's diet would HAY. or grass. That's what they oughta eat.

[Doodlebug1]

In the wild horses graze over a wide variety of plants and soil types. If you're lucky enough to live on a large ranch and your horses have free range - great! but if you are only going to feed your horse grass or hay and you live in an area where the grazing is restricted and the soil is deficient your horse will survive without a ration balancer - however, if you are going to do things properly - and especially if you are going to breed, then you need the analysis done - and the appropriate supplementation.

To give a practical example: parts of Ireland have very high calcium in the soil and produce good, strong youngstock - and I would hazard a guess that the same is true of kentucky or other renowned breeding centres.

My horses moved from the north of the UK down to the south - nothing in their regime changed (they lived out 24/7) but it was noticeable from the hoof growth and (months later) the brittleness of the hooves that the southern soil we now live on was deficient.

[Bravestrom]

I have moved away from commercially processed feeds and our horses have never looked better, felt better or ridden better - I also cut my feed bill by 3/4.

We have draft cross sport horses - three of which are in heavy competition, some babies and a broodmare as well as one hubby horse. They are all in great shape.

I do however use a natural supplement as well as cocosoya oil - but only an ounce of the oil a day (much less than recommended).

Our horses get the following - but you have to play with it.

All get:

2 cups soaked beet pulp, 1/4 cup rice bran and their supplement.

Non-working horses and working horses on their off days also get a cup of rolled oats and a cup of rolled barley.

On working days the working horses get 2 cups of each of the rolled grains.

That being said, one competition horse does not get any grain at all except during the summer months - and then only half what the other working horses get. She just doesn't need it.

Our horses are bright eyed, happy and fully of energy but it is positive energy.

This is just to give you an idea - you have to play with it. I am very lucky that our dressage coach (she is so much more than a coach) has helped us develop this program. Our supplement supplier is also herbs for horses and they created a special performance all in one for us.

Also they get electrolytes during work year round.

[SEPowell]

I was alive before processed feeds and so for years I was very comfortable feeding oats, bp, vits and mins. Then I got a very thin mare with a deformed tooth and I used extruded feed to fatten her up. It was so easy and my horses looked so good that I stuck with that until I read about some horses dying from feed containing some sort of mold. So, last year I went back to my old way but after an 8 month trial, my horses just didn't look as well as they had and their feet weren't as tough as they had been. So, now I'm back to extruded feed and alfalfa. It's just easier, especially when you can't control the nutritional content of your hay, oats, etc (we don't grow our own).

In the perfect world I'd grow all my own feed, have an oat crimper and someone to help me mix up everyone's feed :)

[Shadow14]

I also feed Steam rolled corn. The only processing it has is the rolling process. I feed beet pulp soaked 8 hours for moisture, a handful of iodized salt, rolled oaks and steam rolled corn plus sweet feed for flavor.
Since I have a large orchard I also cut up 8 apples into quarters and add that to the mix.
It adds up to about 6 pounds of grain before the beet pulp is added.

[monstrpony]

...Especially for horses that are fine, fat and sassy, work an hour here and there, and otherwise nap and fart...

AHEM!! Escuuuussse me, but MY horses do NOT fart! They glow. Or, or ... something like that, but they do NOT fart!!

Harumph!! :p

[ivy62]

For years I fed my horse whole oats and a vit/mineral sup but the we thought he had EPSM so we switched everything around....I went with the organic feeds...no soy and no fillers..the pellet is not heat treated either. I add rice bran for the fat and about 6 months later he looks better and feels better...Coat is shiny and my hore actually is growing a nice tail! JMHO