Suggestions for keeping shoes on?

[JBajo]

My 14-year-old draft cross gelding loses shoes on a regular basis--at least 10 times in the 5 years I have owned him. He is shod on a 6-week schedule for most of the year, usually going barefoot in the winter (but not this winter). It's always a front shoe he loses, usually on the off side.

Over the years, he has been shod by 3 well-recommended professional farriers. No noticeably fewer lost shoes with any particular farrier. He is just as likely to pull off clip shoes as non-clip shoes. Keeping bell boots on him (that cover his heel to the ground) all the time has maybe helped some, but he has lost shoes while wearing bell boots.

He has lost shoes by stepping on them a few times under saddle. Most of the time the shoes are lost when he is turned out in the field (he's out 24/7). He is mostly a trail horse, for very active riding with a lot of galloping cross country and some jumping.

The horse has good hoof quality, although they can get a little shelly in a really dry summer. Right now, his feet are in really good shape and he just lost a shoe. Very small holes where the nails pulled through, no chunks of hoof missing or other damage.

I have had a good run with the current farrier. He has shod the horse 4 times and the horse just lost the first shoe put on by this farrier (about 3 weeks after he was shod).

The persistent problem seems to have stumped the previous farriers, who got tired of coming out to replace shoes. Does anyone have suggestions about shoeing techniques that I could pass on to the current farrier?

[yellowbritches]

If the farrier needs shoeing techniques to figure out how to keep a shoe on a horse, you probably need a better farrier.

That aside, my young horse is shod very generously to help sort out some various small issues that he came with off the track. He was also thin soled and didn't have the greatest of hoof wall quality, either. So, he doesn't spend time in bell boots out in the field (especially since he plays rough AND is a gangly teenager of a 5 yr. old). The BEST thing, other than good shoeing, that I have done for him, has been getting him on Farrier's Formula. In the few months he's been on it, his feet have grown out beautifully, his sole is getting thicker, he is no longer mincey on bad going (gravel, frozen, choppy ground), and he is holding his shoes better, even when a lot is left for support. He usually only wears bell boots now for the first few days after a new set of shoes, when hacking in the mud, and when jumping (which is more because he routinely overreaches and grabs his heel when jumping). Might be worth trying.

[Tom Stovall]

Hossfield in gray, stuff deleted

My 14-year-old draft cross gelding loses shoes on a regular basis--at least 10 times in the 5 years I have owned him. He is shod on a 6-week schedule for most of the year, usually going barefoot in the winter (but not this winter). It's always a front shoe he loses, usually on the off side...

Although you made no mention of conformation, quite a few draft crosses and warmbloods are base-narrow to the point of having chronic interference problems. This essay may be useful, especially the part about extended lateral heels (not trailers!). http://web.wt.net/~stovall/box.htm

[KnKShowmom]

I 2nd the Farrier's Formula - another thing that worked for us was to put Tuff Stuff on the nail holes as soon as the shoes where on while the feet were still clean and then reapply every few days to clean, dry feet.

If he is pulling the shoes off when he forges, I would think the farrier would roll this front to help the breakover and square him behind.

[BornToRide]

The main problem could be he's not getting the forehand out of the way soon enough, IOW he tends to be more on the forehand.

[wateryglen]

I feel your pain....Several things you can do.
1..Don't pull shoes in winter. Keep him shod all around all year.
2. Tell farrier to use larger nails. Those experienced w/draft crosses already know this.
3. Biotin daily.
4. If he's an easy keeper and not getting much grain; try a ration balancer to insure he's getting the proper vitamins & minerals.
5. Side clips on all 4.
6. Immediately after shoeing; seal old nail holes and keep them sealed.
7. 24/7 turnout really did the trick for one of mine.
8. Have farrier set the shoes back every other shoeing as in "dubbing" the toes. Many half-drafts have too much toe and weak sidewalls. This REALLY helps.

[BumbleBee]

My gelding has LONG legs and a NARROW chest, when he gets playing he likes to tread on himself, even playing at a slow gait he will get silly and step one hoof on the other.

He lives in bell boots(pull on) and to help with his narrow chest I have been doing lots of lateral work to try to broaden him some.

Not sure if all the lateral work is making him more aware of himself or if it is widening the chest but for some reason it is greatly reducing the the frequency of his stepping on himself.

He has only pulled one shoe in two years and I attribute that to the bell boots as looking at them you can see they have taken some hits.

I personally disagree with the suggestion of bigger nails. You want a shoe to come off clean a bigger clinch will just increase the likely-hood of wall coming off with the shoe.

[Penthilisea]

Easyboot Gloves.
Just a thought.

[JBajo]

Thanks to all for sharing your thoughts and advice. I think the problem is probably more conformational than hoof quality-related, although the supplements suggested could likely help. As some posters have guessed, this horse is very narrow in front--has sort of a "cat step". I will ask my farrier to look at some of the specifics regarding shoeing suggested for narrow-base conformation and we can work on getting back off the forehand and doing more lateral work as he gets more conditioning with the warmer weather.

[Posting Trot]

Be careful about putting clips on a horse that has problems pulling the shoes. With clips, if the shoe gets pulled off, usually quite a bit of hoof wall comes off with it.

Just a heads up.

[Shadow14]

Be careful about putting clips on a horse that has problems pulling the shoes. With clips, if the shoe gets pulled off, usually quite a bit of hoof wall comes off with it.

Just a heads up.

My main concern with clips is if the shoe doesn't get pulled off clean and just rotates the horse can step on the clip driving it into the sole.

[mrsbumble]

BELL BOOTS

[EqTrainer]

How about running a rim cast around his front shoes? Just over the clinches and around the bottom of the shoe. You can usually do two feet w/one roll :)

[Appassionato]

To answer your initial question, I liked Keratex Hoof Hardener. I didn't buy it for that reason, but I did notice that the nail holes didn't stretch and stayed MUCH tighter throughout the shoeing cycle. I can't say enough good things about the product! Do be careful about getting it on the frogs, it can over-harden them and FAST. You can also check out the Hoof Gel, I used to switch to it after the hoof was sufficiently hardened to help repel water. After Bo was reshod, back to the hardener and later the gel. So on and so on.

With him being part draft, *I* would also investigate the current diet and see if something is either lacking or especially if the diet is low enough in NSCs for him. Some drafts border on IR. Both issues may be just fine, but it's always worth a look. Also, a set of x-rays may help the farrier determine what shoeing may be best...the outside of the hoof sometimes tells a different story than what we originally thought. Imbalance can cause various isues as well.

[Staish14]

My main concern with clips is if the shoe doesn't get pulled off clean and just rotates the horse can step on the clip driving it into the sole.

I agree. I cringe when I see clips on front feet for this reason.

I second (third?) a good hoof supplement. Even though it may be more related to his conformation, you did mention that his feet get shelly. Building a better hoof (with the help of the supplement) should help. My horse is on Omega Horseshine and her feet are like rocks. I've had her for almost 6 years and she's lost a shoe maybe twice during all of those years (and when it did happen, it was because she was slightly overdue). :yes: Good luck.

[BuddyRoo]

Well, if he's pulling front shoes due to over reaching, I guess I'd suggest setting the shoe back a bit and making the break over faster. Get those fronts out of the way.

But...without pics or anything it's hard to really go any further than that.

And...i'm not a farrier nor do I play one on TV.

In my experience though, too long toes and a slow breakover can create a scenario like this.

[spotmenow]

I agree. I cringe when I see clips on front feet for this reason.

I second (third?) a good hoof supplement. Even though it may be more related to his conformation, you did mention that his feet get shelly. Building a better hoof (with the help of the supplement) should help. My horse is on Omega Horseshine and her feet are like rocks. I've had her for almost 6 years and she's lost a shoe maybe twice during all of those years (and when it did happen, it was because she was slightly overdue). :yes: Good luck.

Ditto on the cringing over clips. If you need them, there is something wrong with the way he is being shod. You mentioned that you tried several "well-recommended professional farriers"...if they all shoe the same way, it doesn't matter that they are different people. In my area there are at least a half dozen farriers that all trim/shoe pretty much the same way.

One of my boarders lost shoes almost weekly; she switched to my farrier, who backed the toe up and lowered the heel-the freakin' shoes stayed on for NINE weeks (farrier's wife had a baby so he was overdue). Basically, the other farrier was not trimming off enough of the old, weak wall and was trying to nail into it.

And, with clips when a shoe comes off, often times so does a good chunk of hoof wall. Then you have to worry about finding the shoe before a horse steps on it...:no:

Triple ditto on the good hoof supplement/balanced nutrition, especially if he is a very easy keeper (which I suspect he is). My easy-keepin' draft crosses are all on a multi-vitamin and look phenomenal.

[Tom Stovall]

spotmenow in gray

Ditto on the cringing over clips. If you need them, there is something wrong with the way he is being shod.

Correctly formed and applied clips (toe or quarter) are forged at the same angle as the wall, then burned or cut into the wall, they do not set atop the wall. They are used to reduce strain on the nails by negating the possibility of axial movement of the shoe on the hoof. In my experience, their use does not imply anything "wrong" with the way the horse is shod; rather, that the individual's use/husbandry/conformation dictates their use. I'm sure there may be a farrier somewhere who routinely applies unneeded clips, but since it adds time to the job and time is money to us, I don't expect to meet him anytime soon.

You mentioned that you tried several "well-recommended professional farriers"...if they all shoe the same way, it doesn't matter that they are different people. In my area there are at least a half dozen farriers that all trim/shoe pretty much the same way.

Trim/balance the hoof, forge/shape the shoe, nail the shoe on, clinch the nails, finish the foot - we all do it pretty much the same way.

One of my boarders lost shoes almost weekly; she switched to my farrier, who backed the toe up and lowered the heel-the freakin' shoes stayed on for NINE weeks (farrier's wife had a baby so he was overdue). Basically, the other farrier was not trimming off enough of the old, weak wall and was trying to nail into it.

Nine weeks? My goodness, with normal growth, that's an indictment, not an accolade! The horse's health would've been LESS at risk if the shoe had been cast immediately. No matter how far the shoe was initially set under, nine week's growth radically changed the length of the phalangeal lever, changed the way the hoof loaded, and increased stress on both the bony column and the suspensory apparatus.

And, with clips when a shoe comes off, often times so does a good chunk of hoof wall. Then you have to worry about finding the shoe before a horse steps on it...:no:

Most often, when a clipped shoe comes off and takes a "good chunk" of wall with it, the horse was long overdue for a shoeing - and that's more indicative of poor husbandry than poor farriery. :)

[wateryglen]

Well I only have experience w/draft crosses feeties for about 25 yrs and have had them all in side clips up front usually and not once, not once, have they harmed the foot the rare times they came off and they didn't take hoof with them.....Those of us who've used them lots know that when they come off less the feet stay together. And the larger nails are to prevent shoe movement which DOES enable shoe loss. Those big horses can't be shod with regular nails. Bigger shoes=bigger nails...sometimes. AND bigger nails can sometimes come out cleaner when the clinches loosen and you can easily see when the clinches are loose. I hear ya'lls arguments from people who haven't had drafties or have experience with clips.

Many base narrow horses twist their feet just before it comes off the ground especially on the hind which causes nail stress & loss of wall on the hinds. OR they step on the inside of their opposite hoof even when standing around. I've used fetlock rings successfully at times on the hinds. Stay on better than bell boots. NOT the boil boots mind you.!!

Universally for mine, they step on themselves and are clumsy when they are not fit or in condition. OR are being ridden too much on the forhand.
Mine are always klutzy in the summer out hacking but never interfere or forge or anything out foxhunting.

[Posting Trot]

Okay since I'm the one that first said on this thread that when a shoe with a clip is pulled off it often takes a good chunk of the hoof wall with it, I'll respond to the good farriery vs. good husbandry line drawn by Mr. Stovall.

Both times that it happened with my horse it happened within the first 2 weeks of her being trimmed and shod. Fact.

So was this a problem with the farriery or with the husbandry? Well, I'd argue both. My farrier was clearly doing something wrong (actually a lot of things wrong). So it was bad farriery. But I also hadn't educated myself enough to know that the farrier was bad, so bad me.

But the farrier was a well-respected farrier in the area and a number of people liked the farrier's work.

Again, I'll say what I've said before on other threads: I'm sure that there are great farriers out there who do very good work and there are horses that benefit from them.

But not all farriers are good, and in my limited experience, quite a few farriers are either unable or unwilling to really deal with every single individual horse they have in front of them.

So, apart from their skills (or sometimes their lack of skills), farriers are often not actually paying attention to the individual horse and the hoof form. They're trimming what they need to trim to nail the shoe on, and then they're done. Check please.

And if the horse rips off the shoe then there's something wrong with what the owner is doing. Too convenient an explanation in my view. Although again, I'm not disputing that in some cases the owner isn't doing his/her job in terms of maintaining the horse well.

So let's not assume that all farriers have god-like skills and the midas touch, and if anything goes wrong with the hoof or the shoeing job it must be the fault of the owner.

[deltawave]

Square the hind toes, maybe, or leave the hinds bare for a while and see if he does OK without them? Put him in bell boots, maybe?

[cloudyandcallie]

Let's see, my farrier does the 2 clips, is that quarter clips? and hotshoeing steel and glue too. That's on the hind hooves.

On the front, alum and 2 clips and glue.

Your farrier should find the right solution.

And he's only lost 10 shoes in 5 years?:lol::lol::lol: Try 3x in one weekend several years ago. My horse will step sideways in crosseties, and step onto a clip and pull it down so I gave up crossties. But he needs the clips to keep the shoes on. Some horses just have hoof issues, and the farriers have to keep working to get the right fix. Even with supplements, we go thru different conditions with rain and sand and mud and cold and heat, ad infinitum.

[Tom Stovall]

Posting Trot in gray

Okay since I'm the one that first said on this thread that when a shoe with a clip is pulled off it often takes a good chunk of the hoof wall with it, I'll respond to the good farriery vs. good husbandry line drawn by Mr. Stovall.

Both times that it happened with my horse it happened within the first 2 weeks of her being trimmed and shod. Fact.

Farriers are responsible for horses' trimming and shoeing, they are not responsible for horses' husbandry and environment, both of which can adversely affect a shoeing job in a matter of seconds. Fact.

So was this a problem with the farriery or with the husbandry? Well, I'd argue both. My farrier was clearly doing something wrong (actually a lot of things wrong). So it was bad farriery.

You know this because? Please cite chapter and verse, delineating exactly how you determined that "bad farriery" caused your horse to lose a shoe.

But I also hadn't educated myself enough to know that the farrier was bad, so bad me.

Maybe so, maybe not.

But the farrier was a well-respected farrier in the area and a number of people liked the farrier's work.

If I'm reading you correctly, other folks liked and respected the farrier's work, but you determined his work was "bad farriery" after you educated yourself in some way. I'm curious: How exactly did you go about educating yourself on the difference between good and bad farriery? Did you attend the AFA convention? Did you attend the International Hoofcare Symposium? Did you attend any of the many workshops, clinics, wetlabs, etc., sponsored by various state and regional farrier groups? I don't know where you are, but here in Texas, we encourage owners and trainers to attend all of our functions.

Again, I'll say what I've said before on other threads: I'm sure that there are great farriers out there who do very good work and there are horses that benefit from them.

Windshield time doesn't pay much. Good farriers tend to congregate in urban/suburban areas where the horses are. Heaven help an owner who lives way out in the boonies or somebody on the fringes of suburbia who has only one or two horses because economic reality dictates their choices will probably be extremely limited when it comes to farriers.

But not all farriers are good, and in my limited experience, quite a few farriers are either unable or unwilling to really deal with every single individual horse they have in front of them.

The line of demarcation between good and bad farriers - or trimmers - is the operator's willingness and dedication to assessing and addressing the needs of every INDIVIDUAL. Some cats got it and some cats ain't.

So, apart from their skills (or sometimes their lack of skills), farriers are often not actually paying attention to the individual horse and the hoof form. They're trimming what they need to trim to nail the shoe on, and then they're done. Check please.

Balderdash! You've described poor farriery - but for some incomprehensible reason, you're trying to paint all farriers with the same brush.

And if the horse rips off the shoe then there's something wrong with what the owner is doing. Too convenient an explanation in my view.

Perhaps too convenient, but nevertheless reality. Ask yourself, "Who is responsible for the horse's husbandry and environment after the farrier puts the last foot down?"

Although again, I'm not disputing that in some cases the owner isn't doing his/her job in terms of maintaining the horse well.

Most often, when a horse loses a shoe, husbandry, not farriery, is to blame.

So let's not assume that all farriers have god-like skills and the midas touch, and if anything goes wrong with the hoof or the shoeing job it must be the fault of the owner.

No "assumption" here, just objective quantification. A farrier's responsibility ends with the correct application of the correct shoe; if those criteria are met and the shoe is lost, the hickey is on husbandry. :)

[chicamuxen1]

Speed the front feet up, slow the hind feet down. A good breakover on the front feet will help them get off the ground a little sooner. I find the Natural Balance shoes help with this.

Taking the back shoes off will simply speed up the back feet so they reach the front feet SOONER and pull them off. Yes, bare feet can pull of shoes, just as easily as a shod foot. Doing anything to square the hind toes will simply speed them up and they reach the front feet SOONER. Yes, I know that most farriers will square the hind toes thinking they won't reach those front feet. WRONG!!!!! this makes it worse.

Making the back foot print bigger will keep it on the ground longer. Putting extended heels on the hind shoes effectively makes the foot print longer and bigger, SLOWS the hind feet down. The front feet will get off the ground before the hind feet step down into that same spot.

Angles, a lower angle encourages the horse to lift the foot off the ground sooner because of tension on the tendons. A higher angle allows the foot to stay on the ground longer before tension on the tendons cause the horse to lift the foot. So, slightly lower angles on front feet versus hind feet helps speed the front feet up and slow the hind feet down. Since this also matches most horses conformation it is usually already being done by the farrier. But some horses actually are inclined to growing high and contracted heels and the farrier isn't taking the heels down enough.

I have Arabians and many of them have long legs and short backs, super prone to forging and shoe pulling. One mare I competed in endurance just crashed her feet as she trotted down the trail and pulled front shoes continueously. I took her to Stephen O'Grady in VA and asked him for help. He said her front feet with the NB shoes were trimmed and shod just fine. he made some hind shoes with the extended heels and explained most of what I wrote above, some I figured out for myself. She never forged again as long as she got the above shoeing. I now have another one who is built similarly. He has a moderate club foot (higher heel) and that foot get struck by the hind foot unless he has the extended heels on the hind shoes. Oh, he forges when barefoot too.

chicamuxen

[Posting Trot]

I'm saying it was bad farriery because it didn't help the specific horse. My horse wasn't being kept in any way out of the ordinary. But, she did, while under my care and while under the hoof care of the farrier in question, develop the classic problem of long-toes and under-run heels on the front hooves.

I had allowed it to happen because I didn't question what the farrier did. But the horse didn't come to me with this problem so it's pretty easy to lay some of the blame on the farrier. I personally was not shoeing or trimming the horse and she never went more than 5 weeks on a trim.

But this is precisely my point. As a farrier, your first instinct is to blame the owner for anything that goes wrong. I'm not saying that I'm the perfect owner, but neither am I outside of the normal range. The horse was being boarded at a nice facility with good care provided by the BO.

And, again, for some horses the farrier that I was using may well have been just fine. But that is my point: the farrier was trimming and shoeing the horses all the same rather than looking at and responding to the individual horses.

When this farrier put clips on the shoes on my horse, in two instances the horse pulled the shoes and in two instances a large chunk of hoof wall came out with the shoes. (In a third instance, the shoe torqued when it was pulled partially off and the horse did indeed step on the clip).

[Tom Stovall]

Posting Trot in gray

I'm saying it was bad farriery because it didn't help the specific horse. My horse wasn't being kept in any way out of the ordinary. But, she did, while under my care and while under the hoof care of the farrier in question, develop the classic problem of long-toes and under-run heels on the front hooves.

If I'm the attending farrier, as long as the horse is being shod on a timely basis, allowing a horse to develop LTLH on my watch would be inexcusable and grounds for immediate dismissal.

But this is precisely my point. As a farrier, your first instinct is to blame the owner for anything that goes wrong.

This will sound arrogant as hell, but when one of my horses loses a shoe, I know something untoward has happened because I know the shoe was correctly applied.

And, again, for some horses the farrier that I was using may well have been just fine. But that is my point: the farrier was trimming and shoeing the horses all the same rather than looking at and responding to the individual horses.

Again: If a horse is being shod on a timely basis and develops LTLH, the hickey is on the farrier.

When this farrier put clips on the shoes on my horse, in two instances the horse pulled the shoes and in two instances a large chunk of hoof wall came out with the shoes. (In a third instance, the shoe torqued when it was pulled partially off and the horse did indeed step on the clip).

I wasn't there and I don't know exactly what happened, but it sounds like the clips were not correctly applied. A correctly applied clip(s) is burned or cut into the wall and becomes an integral part of the wall, with the outside surface of the clip(s) even with the wall. When correctly applied, it's damn near impossible for the shoe to move axially as you've described because the clip first has to be moved out of the wall. In other words, the shoe has to bend enough to move the clip out of the wall before it can move axially. When that much trauma is involved, stepping on a clip is probably the least of the horse's worries. :)

[Dune]

I had a big WB that would constantly pull shoes off, he was seriously talented in that respect, he could pull both front shoes off with days/week of being done. :winkgrin::mad: I went through 5, yes five, farriers before I found one that could keep shoes on him. He shod him fairly tight, made his own shoes, and used clips. NEVER lost a shoe the whole time that farrier shod him. :cool: Nothing else had changed in his diet, work load or my care/turnout,etc. Just food for thought.

[bntnail]

PT, As a farrier, your first instinct is to blame the owner for anything that goes wrong.

No, I usualy like to find out what is wrong first. Then lay blame.


PT, And, again, for some horses the farrier that I was using may well have been just fine. But that is my point: the farrier was trimming and shoeing the horses all the same rather than looking at and responding to the individual horses.

So he was setting them all at the same angles,toe length,and setting the same type and size shoe on all of them?:eek::no:


PT, When this farrier put clips on the shoes on my horse, in two instances the horse pulled the shoes and in two instances a large chunk of hoof wall came out with the shoes. (In a third instance, the shoe torqued when it was pulled partially off and the horse did indeed step on the clip).


Yes, sometimes clipped shoes get stepped on.Were they hand drawn or machine made? IME hand drawn clips don't seem to pinch the hoof wall like pre-clipped shoes. Pre-clipped shoes should always be reworked and hot fit like hand drawn clips. This will reduce the "pinch" and the chance of pulling wall w/ it if lost. Clips should set into the foot, not on top of it.

[Posting Trot]

The farrier did use pre-clipped shoes.

Truthfully, I have no clue whether the farrier was applying the shoes w/clips by burning the clips in (I don't think so). But again, my point is that while there are good farriers out there who know what they're doing, there seems to be a fair number who don't. There is also seemingly a fair number of farriers who are adequately skilled for many horses/situations, but whose skills are not terribly broad or elastic.

And, moreover, it's often hard for a layperson (i.e. a non-farrier) to tell the difference between these various ranges of farriers before or until something goes wrong.

So, back to the clips on the shoes. Frankly, unless you know that a particular farrier has had a great deal of practice with using clips and applying them correctly, I'd avoid them.

[bntnail]

PT,

I reluctantly agree. It's easy to "pigeon hole" yourself into a particular type of shoeing, and sometimes hard to be broad and well rounded. I don't shoe a lot of draft or draft crosses, but in general I would most likely shoe this horse w/ clips (burnt in). I would also put a bit of an extended heel behind. Of course I would do a lot of other things as well, but can't expound w/o having seen the feet. Would recommend the owner do long trotting exercises to build hind end and try to make the horse more rounded to free up the front. Bell boots at turn out and when riding. Many recommendations have to be made based on conformation and shoeing requirements. It all has to be a collaboration between farrier and owner.:)

[spotmenow]

No "assumption" here, just objective quantification. A farrier's responsibility ends with the correct application of the correct shoe; if those criteria are met and the shoe is lost, the hickey is on husbandry. :)

Really Tom? I have two farriers that come to my farm...horses are in the same fields, same food, etc. The horses that farrier #1 does lose shoes constantly, like within a week of them being nailed on. Between the months of April and August, two of the horses that he does lost over a dozen shoes between them. Don't tell me its not the farrier's work. And, when he started to use clips, the mare lost a good chunk of her foot when THAT shoe fell off.

[Tom Stovall]

spotmenow in gray, my old stuff in brown, stuff deleted

A farrier's responsibility ends with the correct application of the correct shoe; if those criteria are met and the shoe is lost, the hickey is on husbandry.

Really Tom?

Yes'm, really.

I have two farriers that come to my farm...horses are in the same fields, same food, etc. The horses that farrier #1 does lose shoes constantly, like within a week of them being nailed on. Between the months of April and August, two of the horses that he does lost over a dozen shoes between them. Don't tell me its not the farrier's work.

I wrote that a farrier's responsibility ends with the CORRECT application of the CORRECT shoe. Did you miss that part? A farrier has absolutely no control over husbandry and environment.

And, when he started to use clips, the mare lost a good chunk of her foot when THAT shoe fell off.

LMAO! Take this to the bank: If ever a correctly applied shoe "fell off", it was probably on the hoof too long. :)

[411]

My horse used to constantly pull front shoes off. When he was diagnosed with navicular disease and went into a bar shoe I worried he would lose them even more frequently. My farrier squared the hind toes slightly which seems to help. He lives in bell boots -- two pairs. Gummies go on first, followed by harder plastic velcro boots. (I remove the outer boots for riding, keeping the gummies on). He's on a daily biotin supplement and I'm very careful about turnout -- if it's too wet or muddy he stays in. Knock wood lost shoes -- hopefully -- are a thing of the past.

I learned the hard way clips on a horse that pulls shoes is a bad idea when mine was found with the clip of a twisted shoe deeply embedded in his sole.

[Shadow14]

Yes, sometimes clipped shoes get stepped on.Were they hand drawn or machine made? IME hand drawn clips don't seem to pinch the hoof wall like pre-clipped shoes. Pre-clipped shoes should always be reworked and hot fit like hand drawn clips. This will reduce the "pinch" and the chance of pulling wall w/ it if lost. Clips should set into the foot, not on top of it.

Pre-clipped shoes can not be set into the wall without modification. They are set outside the perimeter of the shoe and at right angles to the shoe. It really makes for a poor clip.

[bntnail]

Pre-clipped shoes can not be set into the wall without modification. They are set outside the perimeter of the shoe and at right angles to the shoe. It really makes for a poor clip.

I believe that what I said. "pre-clipped shoes should always be re-worked and hot fit" They are a perfectly acceptable clip if "re-worked"

[4Martini]

A few people have mentioned moving back the breakoverpoint of the front feet. When my horse had this same issue a year back or so I posted on COTH and got the suggestion to try half round shoes which accomplish this.

They have really helped my horse a LOT! (And my farrier does not charge me any more for them :winkgrin:)

The only bad thing is we were using these really nice stout ones and I guess the company that makes them went out of business. So now we have a less burley version - but so far so good. I do also keep bell boots on 24/7.

Good Luck!

[Rick Burten]

The only bad thing is we were using these really nice stout ones and I guess the company that makes them went out of business. So now we have a less burley version -

Anvil Brand Shoe Co. in Lexington, Illinois has a rather complete selection of 1/2 round shoes and may have just what you are looking for. Also, if s/he has not already done so, your farrier should check out the Classic Roller shoe made by Kerkhart

[S1969]

My TB mare has a tendency to overreach and pull her LF (shod in front w/ pads & quarter clips on shoes, bare in back) - always happens in turnout and always when they are playing...too much zig, not enough zag? We suspect her conformation and possibly also fitness that might make her onesided a bit? Not too much we can do about the conformation but to solve this my farrier fits the shoe closely and schedules trim/reset the shoes more frequently - about every 6 weeks. Bell boots have been our friend, too, especially in mud/wet ground. FWIW, I've never had any trouble with her stepping on the clips but clearly the key is keeping the shoes on, and I think we've got it figured out.