Quick stupid boot question

[cnvh]

I posted recently about wanting to try hunting for the first time, so please forgive my newbie-ness... Which is considered correct for hunting-- field boots or dress boots? (I always ride with half-chaps, so I will need to get boots.)

[Elghund2]

I wear dress boots all the time.

I haven't hunted with hunts that are very strict about the dress code. They've tended to stick to the make sure that you are clean, neat and presentable. At one hunt the MFH told me "We're not the clothing nazis.". At another hunt, the MFH told me "We prefer people to have clothes on.".

[Beverley]

If you can only or want only to get one pair of boots, go with plain black dress boots. They are ALWAYS correct including w/ratcatcher attire. Aging foxhunters do still get annoyed by the prevalence of black field boots now commonplace- brown field boots are lovely for ratcatcher however. Obscure old fact, ratcatcher is always correct too, even on formal days (origins having to do w/deference to landowners who might wish to hunt)- it's just that if you are wearing ratcatcher on a formal day you are expected to keep to the rear of the field.

[altjaeger]

Yeah, somehow it has come about that in hunter SHOWS, you are supposed to wear field boots. But in actual hunting you are supposed to wear dress boots (at least the formal ones).

I wear field boots for both simply because my dress boots don't fit me well. I haven't been tossed out of a hunt yet.... :lol:

[cnvh]

My budget would only accomodate one or the other (especially since I wouldn't need/use them otherwise), so I wanted to know which is considered correct. Sounds like dress boots are the way to go... and no, it doesn't make any sense to me that field boots are show appropriate but dress boots are hunt appropriate!:confused:

I haven't started looking at coats yet. Any coat advice? I'm going to try some on the next time I'm at the tack shop, but if I could find a pattern somewhere, I'm considering having my seamstress make one for me-- she's phenomenally talented and CHEAP.

[Elghund2]

Before you go getting too involved in the outfit, you might want to check out the thrift shops. My two tweeds cost a total of $11. The tweed coat would be a good investment because you could wear it for cubbing and non-formal days.

[Romany]

My budget would only accomodate one or the other (especially since I wouldn't need/use them otherwise), so I wanted to know which is considered correct. Sounds like dress boots are the way to go... and no, it doesn't make any sense to me that field boots are show appropriate but dress boots are hunt appropriate!:confused:

I haven't started looking at coats yet. Any coat advice? I'm going to try some on the next time I'm at the tack shop, but if I could find a pattern somewhere, I'm considering having my seamstress make one for me-- she's phenomenally talented and CHEAP.

Ooh, lucky, lucky! Suitability make a couple of different nicely-tailored jacket patterns - go choose yourself some nice black wool (weight will depend on your climate), ideally with a teeny bit of stretch, no more than 1-2%, and let us know how it goes (does she take commissions?!).

http://www.suitability.com/ - bonus - they're sweeet to deal with!

Jean Hardy (sp?) also had good patterns, but they're harder to find.

[cnvh]

Ooh, lucky, lucky! Suitability make a couple of different nicely-tailored jacket patterns - go choose yourself some nice black wool (weight will depend on your climate), ideally with a teeny bit of stretch, no more than 1-2%, and let us know how it goes (does she take commissions?!).

http://www.suitability.com/ - bonus - they're sweeet to deal with!

Jean Hardy (sp?) also had good patterns, but they're harder to find.


Thanks so much for the link!

I know, I'm super-lucky to have such a great seamstress, and she's criminally cheap. She charged me $20 to alter my wedding dress, and she had to do a TON of work on it. (Whatever she charges, I always pay her at least double-- otherwise the guilt would kill me!)

I'm oddly shaped (I'm very much a pear, haha), so my chances of finding something in a thrift store that would work is pretty slim. Those patterns are wonderful!

[Gloria]

Thanks so much for the link!

She charged me $20 to alter my wedding dress, and she had to do a TON of work on it.

$20 to alter wedding dress??? Oh my, you lucky one. I had to pay $300+ ...:mad:

[JSwan]

Thanks so much for the link!

I know, I'm super-lucky to have such a great seamstress, and she's criminally cheap. She charged me $20 to alter my wedding dress, and she had to do a TON of work on it. (Whatever she charges, I always pay her at least double-- otherwise the guilt would kill me!)

I'm oddly shaped (I'm very much a pear, haha), so my chances of finding something in a thrift store that would work is pretty slim. Those patterns are wonderful!

Good Lord.

Give me the name of your seamstress. I have to get my Hunt Ball gown altered and my bill is going to look like the Belgian war debt. :lol:

Please don't think you need to go hog wild just to cap and try out the sport. The Hunt Secretary has the final word so anything you plan to do just check with him/her. For a guest or newcomer - being neat, tidy and on time gets you many gold stars on your report card.

If you are going to buy boots just go with dress boots. Those are the ones that will be most versatile and can be worn for daily riding, hunting, dressage, eventing. You'll get the most bang for your buck that way.

If you enjoy hunting and want to take up the sport.... you can easily be appropriately attired for even the most stringent hunt and it won't break the bank. Lots of used and vintage stuff out there, you can make your own, you can go to thrift stores/tack swaps, etc.

Good luck and report back. :)

[cnvh]

My current riding attire consists of multiple pairs of black Irideons and a pair of black suede velcro half-chaps, and NO coat whatsoever (not counting my hay-covered fleece pullovers, haha), so if I want to look even SLIGHTLY presentable, I'm going to have to do some shopping. :)

I ordered a coat pattern from SuitAbility and will be passing it off to Seamstress Extraordinaire to work her magic; she's tickled to have all summer to work on it, although knowing her, she'll have it done in two weeks. (If anyone is near central PA and would like her contact info, PM me and we'll talk!)

I also think I might have found a pair of dress boots in my very-weird size for $100, so keep your fingers crossed that they will at least ALMOST fit!

[Beverley]

First black riding coat I ever had was tailor made in Paris, 1970, for show jumping (but was also later my first coat for hunting, lightweight, used it for years before giving it to a kid in need of a coat). That tailor made me some really chic skirts and etc too- for dirt cheap- this was a sideline, his real job was doing work for the Big Paris Fashion Houses, especially Ted Lapidus.

When I earned my colors in, 1980 or 81, I found a tailor in McLean, VA to affix colors to coat. The guy practically burst into tears- said that back in the day, he made ALL the hunting clothes for ALL the Fairfax Hunt members. I am soooo sorry I didn't take him up on the offer of making some wool canary breeches for me....I probably couldn't afford it at the time, but it probably would have been worth the debt.

[WilfredLeblanc]

Is there a rationale apart from tradition behind old timers' distaste for black field boots? I've heard people say that laces run the risk of getting hung up on branches, etc., but that would be a problem with brown field boots, too, wouldn't it?

[WilfredLeblanc]

P.S.--Some of ya'll will remember me from the thread about the wearing of boots with brown tops in eventing. Anyway, I came across these half chaps and wondered where they fall on the spectrum of propriety:

http://www.tackunlimited.com/half-chaps.htm

Are you claiming to have earned your colors with a hunt if you wear these, or just looking eccentric?

As someone who has found he prefers half chaps and paddock boots to tall boots of any description, and may well take a stab at hunting one of these days, I'm curious as to whether, in general, hunts out there are apt to accept high-end gaiters/half-chaps in lieu of tall boots the way eventing does nowadays.

[Romany]

Oh, puuh-leeeze: don't apply logic to anything equestrian - of COURSE brown laces are more dangerous than black ones! ;)

Brown boots are more a nod to the goode olde days, when Farmer Giles - who probably owned much of the land and probably bred half the horses out - was allowed to hunt wearing his smart farm clothes, for fear of offending him by forcing him to match sartorially with the toffs. For whatever reason, he would not have bought himself black boots, although he could afford lots of land and, well, lots of horses. :rolleyes: ;)

Also, off the field, brown footwear is always less formal than black footwear - any officer and gentleman would hold you to that one!

(and yes, our Hunt does accept riders wearing paddock/jodhpur boots and half-chaps/gaiters - if anyone is keen enough to ride to hounds, they won't be spurned for lack of funding, certainly with us)

[JSwan]

It depends on the hunt.

Though if you would like to try hunting one of these days, I'd suggest not wearing those half chaps - even if the hunt does permit half chaps in the field. Mine does not permit half chaps - but exceptions are made for riders coming back from an injury and can't quite get back into boots yet. Exceptions are also made for juniors and guests/landowners.

I'm sorry but just because eventing is going down the toilet doesn't mean hunting needs to.

The fact these half chaps are "high end" isn't relevant. The cost of an item isn't relevant. We don't display price tags on our clothes.

If you'd like to try hunting you'll find them a very welcoming group. But like any group or discipline, it has its own culture, traditions, rules, and customs. You'll find there is variety depending on the location of the hunt and the attitude of its leadership.

But if you would like to learn what the standard is - read the Wadsworth booklet "Riding to Hounds in North America". In other words, learn the rules so you can break them properly.

Too many people aren't bothering to learn much about the history and culture and traditions. Some even seem to consider their ignorance some sort of virtue - that "real" foxhunters can't be bothered with such trifles. (I've seen that attitude among the new generation of eventers, too)

Ignorance isn't a virtue, and a person isn't a better foxhunter because their turnout is slovenly, or because the rider doesn't care about what is considered appropriate for that hunt. Actually, I think it's pretty rude. Kind of like showing up to someone's house for dinner in sweatpants and a t-shirt.

In my world - it IS evidence of poor horsemanship - but poor horsemanship is also rearing its ugly head in eventing, too. It's not the sport I left years ago.

It's a shame.

If you'd like to cap with a hunt you'd call the Hunt Secretary and ask what is expected of guests - again - a lot of slack is cut for guests but it would be very rude to show up in something they consider reserved for staff or members with colors. (and you wear white britches with those anyway)




P.S.--Some of ya'll will remember me from the thread about the wearing of boots with brown tops in eventing. Anyway, I came across these half chaps and wondered where they fall on the spectrum of propriety:

As someone who has found he prefers half chaps and paddock boots to tall boots of any description, and may well take a stab at hunting one of these days, I'm curious as to whether, in general, hunts out there are apt to accept high-end gaiters/half-chaps in lieu of tall boots the way eventing does nowadays.

[wateryglen]

I like to use the following thought when discussing foxhunting attire:

If you take up a sport, any sport, don't you always want to wear the correct uniform for that sport? There's usually a good reason for that outfit and you don't want to be out of place or scream "I'm an idiot" by wearing the wrong things right? Would you wear a football uniform to play baseball? Then wearing hunter/jumper, western, or eventing wear out foxhunting wouldn't be right, right?!! When we take up a sport; we want to learn to do it right, look right, be right and play by the rules or traditions for THAT sport. It's always an insult to those who play the sport when someone espouses to want to do the sport comes out improperly dressed, unprepared, or thinks they are so special the rules don't apply to them. It's certainly no way to make friends! We join clubs because we want to fit in, make friends, have fun, enjoy the sport. Do the best you can in the beginning but make a serious effort at getting your uniform if you decide to take it up.
JMHO!

[WilfredLeblanc]

Thanks. I should have been clearer, though. The first question apropos the brown-topped half-chaps was, can you imagine someone with colors wearing these instead of tall boots with brown tops? In other words, who is the intended consumer for those half-chaps? If you wore them outside a hunting context, even though they're not traditional hunt attire, would hunters still take it as pretending to an unearned status?

The second question was more general: Is the state of hunting these days such that one might get away with sticking to half chaps/gaiters from the beginning? I realize the denotation of "high-end" is "pricey," but--my bad--I was thinking more in terms of smooth, shiny, and durable, not boastful of expenditure.

Probably off-topic as heck, but, in what sense has eventing gone down the toilet? Sartorially?

My apologies to the veterans for whom even raising questions like this smacks of irreverence. Please understand that, even though I grew up in Virginia and Maryland, all my riding has been in California, among a frontiersman-like crowd that simply doesn't acknowledge the primacy of hunting or hunters in the equestrian world.

[ArtilleryHill]

JSwan has it exactly right. If the hunt in question allows half-chaps, then Wilfred LeBlanc's example would be acceptable as half-chaps, although the monogram would be unusual. But, again, unless Wilfred LeBlanc (or the wearer, whoever that might be) is a member with colors, the brown tops would not be acceptable, whether on half-chaps or boots. It's that simple. I'm perplexed as to why this issue seems to be so difficult to get across.

And high-end makes no difference at all. I can buy the most expensive custom-made Stetson in the world, but it still isn't proper in the hunt field.

[ArtilleryHill]

The first question apropos the brown-topped half-chaps was, can you imagine someone with colors wearing these instead of tall boots with brown tops? In other words, who is the intended consumer for those half-chaps? If you wore them outside a hunting context, even though they're not traditional hunt attire, would hunters still take it as pretending to an unearned status?


Again, it would come down to the hunt and the hunt's feeling on half-chaps.

The intended consumer, presumably, is anyone who will buy them. But the brown-tops sentiment among hunters applies both to boots and half-chaps. Brown tops denote "with colors," so either you have them and that's great or you don't and you're being sort of fakey in the eyes of hunting folk.

My apologies, by the way, in my earlier post I said "staff" when I meant "with colors," so I'm off to edit that now!

[JSwan]

Huh?

Are you not aware of what is going on in eventing??????????????

What I write about other sports isn't unique. Many people are concerned about the fact that today's riders seem to be overly interested in wearing the "stuff" instead of spending their money on lessons. Focusing on competing all the time, buying the most fashionable items with no knowledge of what the items represent. And their riding is scary.

As I wrote before - to some extent there is going to be variety among hunts. A fellow hunter from out West wears sunglasses and a square pad and boots on her horse.

In my hunt that would be an anathema.

In her hunt it makes sense. She rides through cactus and lives in a desert type environment. The square pads hold a canteen with water and the sunglasses protect her eyes.

In my hunt there is no need for such things and the splint boots are forbidden - because our territory is so muddy and grimey the horse's legs would be bloody within an hour.

Another hunt might permit Western riders. Another hunt might permit stallions - another would not. One might permit mules - another wouldn't.

One hunt might turnout in ratcatcher during the week and formal only on weekends. (during the formal season) Another hunt might decide formal attire for every hunt day during the formal season.

Again - as I wrote before there is a standard - which hunts can deviate from if local conditions warrant. But there is a standard.

And the standard is that those boot tops are not worn except by certain people.

The fact that other horse sports are aping the look is just plain unfortunate. It speaks poorly of those riders to be so ignorant.

I'd not show up to a jumper show with a scarlet coat or a flag emblem on my saddle pad. That would be disrespectful, rude, not to mention pretentious.

The fact that other sports are marketing the "foxhunter" look, and riders are buying this stuff to make them look cool - just makes them look foolish. And the saddest part is that many of these people don't even know the significance - and other don't give a crap.

And that's poor horsemanship. Period.

[WilfredLeblanc]

Huh?

Are you not aware of what is going on in eventing??????????????

Well . . . I think so, although I'm just a guy who does all his riding at an eventing barn and takes all his lessons from an eventing coach and follows the news, not a competitor, and I'm just asking what you're referring to--safety issues, the newer format, shifts in attire, all of it?

What I write about other sports isn't unique. Many people are concerned about the fact that today's riders seem to be overly interested in wearing the "stuff" instead of spending their money on lessons. Focusing on competing all the time, buying the most fashionable items with no knowledge of what the items represent.

Definitely not me! I aim to buy only what is strictly necessary and to buy it once. Ironically, there's a big icon from SmartPak flashing at the top of my screen reading "Custom breeches fit you and your personal style. Shop now."

. . . And that's poor horsemanship. Period.

I hear you about all that, JSwan.

[JSwan]

Pretty much all of it. Loosening of standards, focus on money... the standards were there for a reason. Loosen the standards and bring up a crop of riders with a "anything goes" attitude...... and you get modern eventing. Complete with rotational falls, lack of personal responsibility, dumbing down the sport so people who have no business competing can just sign up, hop on, and race around xc on the forehand - but they look smashing in their colorful garb.

Actually - the same could be said of hunting. People who show up with all the geegaws but have no business being out there because they can't ride well enough.

The difference is that generally those riders don't stick around for long in the hunt field.

I'll let you in on the grand secret about turnout. There is no mystery about turnout for any discipline.

You will never go wrong if you are plain, neat and tidy. Plain boots, plain shirt, plain britches, plain jacket.

You might look a little boring - but you won't be wrong. Plain simple traditional attire is proper and correct for the lower levels of all English disciplines.

If you're currently eventing but are eager to try hunting - come on out. Wear plain tan britches, plain boots, plain stock tie, plain black helmet. Plain brown or black gloves.

Show up on a clean well behaved horse with good quality tack - properly fitted and adjusted. Be able to walk trot canter gallop safely and securely in an open area.

Check with the Hunt Secretary and check in with the Field Secretary first thing upon arriving. Pay your cap and introduce yourself to the Master.

Smile, be polite, ride in the back of the field since you are new.

Smile some more.

Afterwards, thank the Master for a wonderful day and say good night.

That's it.

Plain and simple. Good manners. Good sportsmanship and good horsemanship. Plain simple turnout. Smile and be friendly. Control your horse.

You will be most welcome at any hunt. If you take up the sport you have many years of learning ahead of you - but all of it will be fun and enjoyable.



safety issues, the newer format, shifts in attire, all of it?
Definitely not me! I aim to buy only what is strictly necessary and to buy it once. Ironically, there's a big icon from SmartPak flashing at the top of my screen reading "Custom breeches fit you and your personal style. Shop now."
I hear you about all that, JSwan.

[cnvh]

In my hunt there is no need for such things and the splint boots are forbidden - because our territory is so muddy and grimey the horse's legs would be bloody within an hour.



Okay, another teeny question from the OP again... Splint boots are a no-no? I was going to ask about that anyway, re: acceptable colors-- I didn't realize boots themselves might be forbidden. My horse toes out in front and I always keep him in boots (SMB Elites) in front so he doesn't knock himself. (His boots are purple, and I was pretty sure purple boots wouldn't go over well in the hunt field, haha...)

Any suggestions for a workable solution to this? Because I'm not comfortable riding my guy without some sort of leg protection in front... I'm not sure I understand how grimy/muddy territory would translate to a horse's legs becoming bloody because of splint boots?

[ArtilleryHill]

Ask the hunt secretary about boots! If allowed, and they are in many hunts, in my experience, then I'd go with black.

[Romany]

Also, about the horse wearing boots; even if they do get the OK from the hunt secretary, you might find the SMB just too much of a PITA to keep clean; you may find it easier to get a set of leather or plastic boots; smooth exterior, no fluffy interior, just because they're easier to clean afterwards!

[ArtilleryHill]

I've used Woof boots on occasion for horses that need them and found they worked well, but in general I find most boots a pain out hunting.

[altjaeger]

What does a flag emblem on a saddle pad indicate?

[ArtilleryHill]

It could indicate that you are riding as a team representative of that nation.

[wateryglen]

And we could ALL order up some of them fine, fine, fine custom breeches from Smartpak that I keep seeing popping up over the threads worn by the woman with the perfect figure whom I hate intensely!!! :winkgrin::lol::lol::lol:
It's GOTTA be a mannequin....or touched up. She can't be real....:mad:
I hate her and I hope she falls off........:cool: "Fit you and your personal style"??? yeah...right.....