Trailer towing question

[impeggysue]

I have decided to buy a truck and trailer to two my horses around town, usually to a lesson or two a week about 15 minutes a way and maybe a show once a month or so. Anyway, I went truck shopping. I found two trucks I really liked a nice 2006 Ford f250 diesel pickup truck and a very nice 2006 Eddie Bauer Expedition with a tow package. Is the expedition going to be able to tow a two horse with a dressing room safely or do I really need the f250?
Thank you for your help

[AKB]

I'd go with the F-250.

[amdfarm]

I'm a MOPAR gal, but from your two choices, I agree the F-250. It's about stopping ability along w/ pulling power. Save the Expedition for a camper or boat.

[Tom Bloomer]

You should check the towing capacity of each vehicle and compare that to the combined weight of the trailer and horses. Then buy the F250 because it has a more comfortable ride. ;)

[strawberry roan]

Buy the diesel. You will love it. :):)

[2bee]

From what you describe the Expedition would be perfectly safe. You would like the the diesel pickup better, but 'like' has nothing to do with 'safe'.

Those two choices are a rather strange comparison, what else will this vehicle have to do?

[Tom Bloomer]

From what you describe the Expedition would be perfectly safe. You would like the the diesel pickup better, but 'like' has nothing to do with 'safe'.

Those two choices are a rather strange comparison, what else will this vehicle have to do?
Expedition has a higher center of gravity, a shorter wheel base, and way less towing and STOPPING capacity than the F250. Difference between half ton SUV and 3/4 ton truck is HUGE when it comes to safety, with or without towing. Plus you can't haul 23 bales of hay (or more if you stack it correctly) in an Expedition.;)

[mkevent]

I agree with Tom. Also, if you happen to get a trailer with a dressing room, you'll definitely want the pickup. It gives you more choices down the road-if you decide on a gooseneck, for instance. If you like the idea of covered storage, you could always put a cap on the truck-that's what I have on my pickup and I love it. Also, not scientific, but it *seemed* to me that when hauling, milage with the diesel was about 2X as good as regular gas-but please-anyone who really knows chime in!!!
I loved my diesel and wouldn't hesitate on getting another. DH bought my current truck (not a diesel) and it's fine-I just think there's something about the sound of a diesel truck that mean's business!(ok-that's a little wierd..)

[rmh]

Go wkith the F-250. I have seen several suvs with towing packages have overheating and pulling problems with bumper pulls and two horses and tack. Plus as has been said... braking power. You can't have too much. I have a decent size LQ trailer. I want to up grade from a 350 to 450 but can't justify the $ right now. But I will when then time is right. I don't think you can have too much towing capacity.

[JB]

Another vote for the 250, no contest. Longer wheel base, better stopping power. It's not just about pulling the trailer, it's about lateral movement prevention/recovery (which the longer wheel base helps greatly with), and the stopping power, both for safety. After that it's the transmission life that gets shortened by the smaller/less powerful vehicle. Remember too that a towing package is generally added after the GVWR is calculated, so has taken away from that, reducing the amount of trailer/payload you can pull/carry.

[gabz]

Go with the 250 diesel. It will last you far longer than the expedition AND it will give you FAR FAR better control with a tag-along trailer. It will also mean that you can, sometime in the future, upgrade to a bigger trailer without having to upgrade the tow vehicle.

I wish I had an F250 diesel... I'm stuck with an F150 gasser until I hit the lottery.

23 bales of hay? Those are 3-wire, 100+ pound bales of hay, right? Otherwise, more like 35-40 and up (with the 6.75' bed)

[Guilherme]

We towed for serveral years with a 1987 Chevy Suburban, 2500, 4x4, 350 gas engine. Our trailer was an 18' steel Valley four horse. We used sway bars. It towed just fine. After we moved to TN we kept the Suburban and bought an F-350 Crew Cab (7.3l diesel, dually, crew cab, 2x4). The F-350 was MUCH more practical than the Suburban for most tasks around the farm. While we lived in town and boarded the horses the Suburban was the more practical vehicle.

Personally, I believe a large gas engine is more economical over the life a vehicle than a diesel (particularly when diesel is 30% more than gas). That did not stop me from buying a 2008 Chevy 3500HD Duramax, however. ;) (Note that I bought the truck for way under it's "book" value and it was showroom condition with 7500 miles on it.)

So let use decide practicality which will drive the purchase decision. :)

That said, walk VERY carefully around any Ford with the 6.0l engine (found in Ford SDs from about 2004-2007). This has been a problematical installation and Ford has been forced to buy back serveral hundred under various "lemon laws." There is more than $500 Million worth of legislation ongoing over warranty claims between Ford and International Harvester (maker of the engine).

Our tennant had one of these 6.0l Ford SD (a gussied up King Ranch version)for a couple of years and it was a real dog. Fuel milage was poor, performance was marginal, and it spent at least as much time in the shop as it spent in her driveway. She ended up "giving it away." :(

The old 7.3l engine was pretty much "cast iron" and had only one widespread problem I'm aware of (a faulty cam position sensor, IIRC; it was fixed for most folks by Ford). The 6.4l turbodiesel (also from IH) in the 2008 Super Duties is supposed to be a good installation, but expensive to maintain. If you look under the hood of a Ford you'll see that the engine compartment is VERY "busy" and you'd have trouble putting a piece of paper edgewise in most places. That bodes ill for maintenance (to fix item A the odds are that many other items might have to be moved meaning lots of shop hours at $70/hr., the going shop rate around here).

The 2009 F-350SDs are starting to show up in the Knoxville area showrooms. There is one that I found; it had a sticker in excess of $55,000. Detroit still doesn't "get it" about pricing. :mad:

Again, the U.S. is awash with good values in large trucks (including lots of unsold, new 2008s). I'm not a Ford guy. I don't know that much about the Dodges. The Duramax has done well for me.

Good luck in your search.

G.

[2bee]

Expedition has a higher center of gravity, a shorter wheel base, and way less towing and STOPPING capacity than the F250. Difference between half ton SUV and 3/4 ton truck is HUGE when it comes to safety, with or without towing. Plus you can't haul 23 bales of hay (or more if you stack it correctly) in an Expedition.;)

That is a common opinion, but there is little to back it up.

The COG is likely no different than a pickup with a topper. I would go look up height/width/ground clearance, but Ive done it enough to know there is not much, if any, difference. Besides my Chevy sits considerably lower than a comparable Ford or Dodge, guess that makes me safer? Maybe we should only tow with GM products? True the Expy has less towing capacity, but that is because it has a lighter duty powertrain. Towing capacity has a lot to do with power, look at the difference in capacity of a gas vs. diesel in the same truck. How about the stopping distances? Larger/heavier vehicles typically take longer to stop, basic physics. Im not as familiar with Ford, but the 2007+ 1/2 ton Tahoe actually has LARGER brakes than on my 06 3500 Dmax.

There are differences are to why it can only tow 1/2 what the diesel can, but they are not why it cant tow its rated load safely.

So as not to be completely negative, you are right about the hay bales. :)

[KnKShowmom]

Go with the F250 - I love mine and it really helps that it doubles for a hay/grain/whatever-you-need hauler!

Your diesel engine also has a longer life than a gas - mine was nicely broken in at 200,00 miles when I bought it and is still purring 50,000 miles later!

[paintjumper]

I do not pull my BP without a weight/anti sway bar and my truck is a 550! If your horses get in a storm in a BP they can disrupt any tow vehicle. The bar really works well, especially on the size vehicles you are looking at. It also gives the horses a much better ride as the trailer is much more stable and no swaying with their every move.

[impeggysue]

Thanks so much for all the imput, it was really helpful. I have a car (Honda Civic that I Love) so this truck is strictly to tow with. Anyway, I looked at all the responses and decided to go with the F250, it seemed to be the choice everyone picked (even if it doesn't have heated seats).
Thanks again now I just need help deciding on a horse trailer. :)

[KnKShowmom]

Well since you decided on the truck, you could go with a gooseneck instead of a bumper pull.......

[gypsymare]

That said, walk VERY carefully around any Ford with the 6.0l engine (found in Ford SDs from about 2004-2007). This has been a problematical installation and Ford has been forced to buy back serveral hundred under various "lemon laws." There is more than $500 Million worth of legislation ongoing over warranty claims between Ford and International Harvester (maker of the engine).

Ditto.

I have a 2003 6.0L PowerStroke with 90,000 miles and I consider myself very lucky that mine hasn't spent more time in the shop. It's been running much better since they disconnected the EBP sensor completely (after MULTIPLE cleanings and warranty claims) and I've only had to replace one fuel injector.

The biggest problem with this model is the EBP sensor/EGR valve and the injectors and if you can get one dirt cheap and afford to replace them all for the difference it's a nice towing solid truck. However, the faulty injectors can fail in such a way that it floods the engine and requires a complete engine replacement. The faulty EBP sensor can kill your fuel economy and power and the EGR sensor does require routine cleaning.

I also haul a 30' BP RV that is close to max weight and it pulls like a dream now. The 6.0L is definitely not lacking in power! Again, you have to get the sensor disconnected... and the injectors are a gamble. I hardly notice I'm pulling the 2H trailer.

[gypsymare]

Thanks so much for all the imput, it was really helpful. I have a car (Honda Civic that I Love) so this truck is strictly to tow with. Anyway, I looked at all the responses and decided to go with the F250, it seemed to be the choice everyone picked (even if it doesn't have heated seats).
Thanks again now I just need help deciding on a horse trailer. :)

ALUMINUM!! Ugh, I so regret buying my steel trailer. Rust is a horrible thing. If price is an issue don't turn down a good stock trailer with partitions. Great airflow for hot days, you can always blanket for cold ones, tons of room and generally a really good value. After having a nice stock trailer Id never go back to a regular horse trailer... even if it is rusting :(

[paintjumper]

with drop down doors on BOTH sides if it is a slant so you will have good airflow and cooler temps in the trailer in the summer. Aluminum lasts way longer but it still must be maintained by keeping it clean, inside and out, especially under the mats because you will get erosion that will undermine the floor. Air condition in the dressing room is great so you can hang out and change on hot days. You can even through a mattress in the top and spend the night if you need to. If you buy used spend the time to examine the floors well, especially the framework that holds the floor. I looked at a wooden floored trailer once and it LOOKED good, the boards were new, but the metal the boards were supported by was rusted and was very dangerous. I would have missed it if my dad, who goes over everything with a fine toothed comb, had not been with me!

[Tom Bloomer]

That is a common opinion, but there is little to back it up.

The COG is likely no different than a pickup with a topper.
Let me rephrase that the "moment arm" length to the CG is longer on truck due to longer and wider wheel base. 'nuther words it takes a lot more force to tip it over, swing it around, or make it swerve under a load.

I believe '06 was the last year the 7.3L Powerstroke was available as an option over the 6.0L "recall special."

My wife has a '99 F350 Crew DRW 7.3L. Last year I drove an '08 with the new twin turbo. It was quieter, but I wasn't impressed with the power - could be it was geared higher that our '99. Ours has a 410 limited slip rear which is overkill for flat land towing. Gets 17MPG empty or or 17mpg pulling a loaded 3-horse gooseneck with LQ ~9500lbs. She just doesn't care if its there AND she can stop that load even without the trailer brakes. :cool:

[2bee]

Let me rephrase that the "moment arm" length to the CG is longer on truck due to longer and wider wheel base. 'nuther words it takes a lot more force to tip it over, swing it around, or make it swerve under a load.

I believe '06 was the last year the 7.3L Powerstroke was available as an option over the 6.0L "recall special."

My wife has a '99 F350 Crew DRW 7.3L. Last year I drove an '08 with the new twin turbo. It was quieter, but I wasn't impressed with the power - could be it was geared higher that our '99. Ours has a 410 limited slip rear which is overkill for flat land towing. Gets 17MPG empty or or 17mpg pulling a loaded 3-horse gooseneck with LQ ~9500lbs. She just doesn't care if its there AND she can stop that load even without the trailer brakes. :cool:


Ah yes the "moment arm", what people always forget is how the overhang comes into play. The overhang is shorter (99% of the time) on the smaller vehicles, yielding the same leverage ratio. Like I say, all this has been factored in.......why does everyone think they know better than the guys who made the truck?

The Explorer I used to haul with could stop my trailer just the same as the 3500 Dmax I use now. So what? Neither is rated to do so. ;)

17 mpg.....damn I miss the old PS and CTD. These new ones get $hit for mpg. I get 13 mpg pulling 5700# at 65 mph.

[Jaegermonster]

I have an 02 Ford F250 4x4 crew cab diesel 7.3 psd that I love. mid year 02 was when that 6.0 pos started coming out that was nothing but trouble. The 6.4 has come out but I usually like to give it a couple of model years before I get something new.
I have also heard that Chevy has discontinued the Duramax due to lots of problems with it (although it escapes me now exactly what) and are coming out with something else.

[Guilherme]

I have an 02 Ford F250 4x4 crew cab diesel 7.3 psd that I love. mid year 02 was when that 6.0 pos started coming out that was nothing but trouble. The 6.4 has come out but I usually like to give it a couple of model years before I get something new.
I have also heard that Chevy has discontinued the Duramax due to lots of problems with it (although it escapes me now exactly what) and are coming out with something else.

The Duramax is still in use. It's undergone significant evolution since its introduction in 2000 (the current designation is LMM, IIRC).

G.

[dwblover]

I have a 2005 Expedition with the premium tow package. It can haul up to 9,000 lbs. I bought a two-horse bumper pull with a dressing room, trailer itself only weighs about 2400 lbs. We just moved from PA to the very bottom of SC. The dressing room was loaded, two horses on board, and it took 18 hours of non-stop hauling (long story) to get down here. That Expedition pulled that trailer like a dream.!!! I honestly didn't even know anything was behind me. Brakes worked like I was towing nothing at all. Seriously. I can't believe how amazing that thing hauls.

[Tom Bloomer]

why does everyone think they know better than the guys who made the truck?
Mabe they believe the NHTSA rollover rating over the guys who made the truck?

17 mpg.....damn I miss the old PS and CTD. These new ones get $hit for mpg. I get 13 mpg pulling 5700# at 65 mph.
Mobile-1 and Amsoil have fully synthetic oil for the new diesel engines. I switched to Amsoil and picked up 2mpg. The synthetic oil costs more, but you can go a lot longer between oil changes.

[Bluey]

If you are looking for trailers, give goosenecks a good look.
When they first came on the scene for ranch trailers, all of us could tell a big difference in how they pulled and we think there were less wrecks with them.
I think that they are safer all around enough to, if you are buying a horse or stock trailer, to get a gooseneck, even in the shorter lenghts.

There is not hardly anyone around any more pulling any other than a gooseneck here, where hauling your horses around is done every day.

[mkevent]

OP- I have a 2 horse bumper pull with dressing room and I always use the antisway bars. If you get a bumper pull, definitely use anti-sways-not only do they prevent swaying but they also prevent jacknifing while you're learning to back and turn while backing(don't ask me how I know this!). I've never had a gooseneck, so I don't know what I'm missing(hehe) but I know everyone loves them. I chose a bumper pull and my truck has a cap so it works for me-I can transport approx 20 bales of hay in the rain, pick up shavings, go to shows and not worry about anything in the back getting wet. My trailer is steel frame with aluminum skin (steel treated so it doesn't "react" with aluminum) and I love my trailer-it is a Kingston and they're built to last. Everyone here has great advice-try to envision what you might want down the road-maybe you don't think a dressing room is crucial now but if you plan on competing, it will definitely come in handy later! Have fun!

[2bee]

Mabe they believe the NHTSA rollover rating over the guys who made the truck?




A 06 Expedition (http://www.safercar.gov/portal/site/safercar/menuitem.db847bd57e3dc1f885dfc38c35a67789/?vgnextoid=c95df2905bf54110VgnVCM1000002fd17898RCR D) has a 3 star rollover rating in 2wd and a 4 star rating in 4wd. Did not see where they tested a F250, but the longer F150 (http://www.safercar.gov/portal/site/safercar/menuitem.94b0130be143aeb342252f0835a67789/?vgnextoid=68adf2905bf54110VgnVCM1000002fd17898RCR D) fared no better in 4wd, also with 4 stars. The Expy ratings seemed a little backward to me, although it appears the difference between 3 and 4 stars is 2%, so I guess that could be considered statistically insignificant.

Not sure I believe everything the Government tells me anyway. ;)

[equitationboy27]

The F250 would be better. But for what your needs are the Expedition would be fine. If you not traveling all that far then why do you need some huge monster. If you set the Expedition up fortowing with the Weight Distribution Hitch you should be fine. I'd go with the F250 if i'm traveling all the time, and long distances but the Expedition should be able to do the job fine.